why does F1-2000 *feel* so bad ?

Trying to like the game ( EA F1-2000) the 43534th time, I just realized that the problem with the tiny driver heads might go far beyond the visual aspect. It seems to me that everything, from the viewing angle to the speed perception is based on this tiny little head inside the cockpit. This is why the car feels that big, the track too narrow, the curbs too high, the bumps exaggerated ...etc..etc. I'd love to read what others think about this. Another comment about track accuracy (DISCLAIMER: only read on if you care about track accuracy in your sims): The main problem even with the more accurately modelled tracks in F1-2000 is that they don't represent the challenge of their real-life counterparts. Take the Nurburgring for example: The Ford curve is the hardest corner in F1-2000, but very simple in RL, while the Bit curve is a real bitch to drive in RL, but very easy in F1-2000. I could go on with countless examples but I think it's enough to get the point. Missing curbs are also not only a visual problem, but fundamentally change the approach to taking a corner - i'll throw in the last corner in Monaco as an example for a missing curb that most people don't seem to notice. cheers, --- Alexander Marx mailo:[email hidden]

"Alexander Marx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8i5v7e$454hm$[email hidden]... > Trying to like the game ( EA F1-2000) the 43534th time, I just realizedthat > the problem with the tiny driver heads might go far beyond the visual Aren't you the one that claimed to be a real driver and immediately dismissed F1 2000??? I am glad to see you are open minded and willing to give it another shot. > aspect. It seems to me that everything, from the viewing angle to thespeed > perception is based on this tiny little head inside the cockpit. This iswhy > the car feels that big, the track too narrow, the curbs too high, thebumps > exaggerated ...etc..etc. I'd love to read what others think about this. To me it seems right compared to the rest of the F1 sims I tried and from watchin on TV. Perhaps if I sat in a real F1 car my perspective would be different. I would never this the game was total crap or that the tracks were total crap to the point of being un enjoyable. > Another comment about track accuracy (DISCLAIMER: only read on if you care > about track accuracy in your sims): > > The main problem even with the more accurately modelled tracks in F1-2000is > that they don't represent the challenge of their real-life counterparts. Correct. I would hope that most sim races would realize this before the make sweeping judgements. It is very similar to flightsims IMHO. > Take the Nurburgring for example: The Ford curve is the hardest corner in > F1-2000, but very simple in RL, while the Bit curve is a real bitch todrive > in RL, but very easy in F1-2000. I could go on with countless examples butI > think it's enough to get the point. Missing curbs are also not only avisual > problem, but fundamentally change the approach to taking a corner - i'll I always assumed that these problems were because we cannot feel the forces acting on the real car, coupled with the fact that we cannot move our head the way a real driver would to look ahead as he is making to turn. In short I believe it is an inherent flaw that we must accept by trying to simulate a driving game on a flat screen with no G forces or anything else acting on us. > throw in the last corner in Monaco as an example for a missing curb that > most people don't seem to notice. You mean that last corner before the start/finish line? I am too busy trying to avoid the wall on the left and pole on the right and negotiate that last chicane. I freely admit that I have not surveyed every curb on every track. Certainly if one were missing here or there it would not be enough to dismiss the game as many have. After all if you want truly bad tracks, just check our Road & Tracks Grand Prix. Anyone remember that one? It was my first F1 game and boy was I ever disappointed. But there is no way in hell F1 2000 is even remotely that poor. -- [email hidden]

"Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kmw15.4148$[email hidden]... > (massive snippage) Certainly if one were missing here or there it would

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> not be enough to dismiss the game as many have. After all if you > want truly bad tracks, just check our Road & Tracks Grand Prix. > Anyone remember that one? It was my first F1 game and boy was > I ever disappointed. But there is no way in hell F1 2000 is even > remotely that poor. > > -- > > [email hidden] >

Philistine! Road & Track Grand Prix inaccurate!?! I mean,geez, it had hills, grass ,overpasses, little signs and.. and.. and all sorts of other stuff too! Hey if you didn't think the track was good enough you could fire up the included track editor and shuffle your little track tiles around to your hearts content( just as long as you only moved in 1 of 4 directions). Then you could race your car (all twelve pixels of it) forwareds backwards and even right off the tile (though that tended to crash the application). Plus it could run on a 386 and came on a convenient 6 diskettes. Sure the cover art may have given the wrong impression with regards to accurate graphics and the physics were lifted from a 1970 slot car game and the keyboard control had steeering full right, full left and center and it toook forever to load.......... Actually now that I come to think on it ,it did kinda suck, didn't it? We are agreement then: F1-2000 beats R&T GP hands down :) David

My two cents in this never-ending controversy... I love MGPRS, and have driven it for a year or so. When F12K came out, I hated it. But then, once the addons started pouring out, I decided that I might give it a go again. (That and wanting to race Indy) The one addon that addressed the "tiny head" problem you cited (quite correctly) was the cockpit camera fix, and once I did that, the game just clicked. Last night, I tried Canada with MGPRS, and it seemed sluggish and the car acted like it was on ice, even with traction control on. I turned 10 crap laps and stopped. Back to F12K, and beat my time by 10 seconds immediately (thanks to being able to run over the curbs and the more open chicanes, I think). These times, while comparatively slow, were closer to what the guys actually turn (well, at least Gene) I think I agree that the tracks are poorly modeled. Then again, I kept getting the impression on TV that Canada (for example) seemed much less tight in real life than on MGPRS. I think F12K feels better, at least on the chicanes in Canada. But, the elevations on Silverstone seem all wrong, so on it goes. And, the FF sucks, so... Waiting, breathlessly, for GP3 On Tue, 13 Jun 2000 20:40:37 +0200, "Alexander Marx" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Trying to like the game ( EA F1-2000) the 43534th time, I just realized that >the problem with the tiny driver heads might go far beyond the visual >aspect. It seems to me that everything, from the viewing angle to the speed >perception is based on this tiny little head inside the cockpit. This is why >the car feels that big, the track too narrow, the curbs too high, the bumps >exaggerated ...etc..etc. I'd love to read what others think about this.<snip>

It is certainly worth a second look. The physics seem pretty good to me. Just a apity it is really a beta that they rushed through :-( James Alexander Marx <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8i5v7e$454hm$[email hidden]... > Trying to like the game ( EA F1-2000) the 43534th time, I just realizedthat > the problem with the tiny driver heads might go far beyond the visual > aspect. It seems to me that everything, from the viewing angle to thespeed > perception is based on this tiny little head inside the cockpit. This iswhy > the car feels that big, the track too narrow, the curbs too high, thebumps > exaggerated ...etc..etc. I'd love to read what others think about this. > > Another comment about track accuracy (DISCLAIMER: only read on if you care > about track accuracy in your sims): > > The main problem even with the more accurately modelled tracks in F1-2000is > that they don't represent the challenge of their real-life counterparts. > Take the Nurburgring for example: The Ford curve is the hardest corner in > F1-2000, but very simple in RL, while the Bit curve is a real bitch todrive > in RL, but very easy in F1-2000. I could go on with countless examples butI > think it's enough to get the point. Missing curbs are also not only avisual

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> problem, but fundamentally change the approach to taking a corner - i'll > throw in the last corner in Monaco as an example for a missing curb that > most people don't seem to notice. > > cheers, > --- > Alexander Marx > mailo:[email hidden] > >