Re: Simulating Speed.....A Note To Developers.

In article <8i8i30$4ff$[email hidden]>, "Mark Stahl" <[email hidden]> writes: >hey brian- >i thought i was the only med student on here! nice to meet you.....where are >you? maybe we could form an online team.... > >mark Team Stethoscope? :) Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. 2:12.80 minutes-GPLRank:345 and falling.. Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Hey Marc, Nice to see that i'm not the only one too;) I'm from the Netherlands and this is my first year...wel almost my second year if i pass this month:) I'm already in a online team started the team since last year when we competed in the RS2 League. Check out the team at www.gssilver.cjb.net We are trying to compete at different front's now and have a good line up of drivers. We are open for all drivers from all levels. Brian "Racing Doctor" Balgobind "Mark Stahl" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht news:8i8i30$4ff$[email hidden]... > hey brian- > i thought i was the only med student on here! nice to meet you.....whereare

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> you? maybe we could form an online team.... > > mark > > "Brian V. Balgobind" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:39478eeb$0$4383@reader3... > > Btw, from a medical student point of few, > > > > The blurring effect is because of your eyes and not because of the

speed. > > Actually if yuor eyes where 100% perfect that blurring would not accure. > And > > you can't control if a Sim gives a blurring effect actually. Like yousaid > > that you looked in GPL is actually fooling your own eyes. Cause whereyou

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> > look the image will be always focussed. That's just the nature of your > eyes. > > But maybe they will invent something...hack the real things that are > > blurring are not blurred in real life to or are they ;) > > > > > > "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway > > > rushing towards you at 200kph? > > > Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this > > > sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of > the > > > speed at which a racing car travels. > > > > > > However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"? > > > > > > He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times) > > "Dad........why > > > don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?" He > > then > > > went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to him!)

by > > > pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves > towards > > > you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it gets > the > > > more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges ofthe > > > road, the shrubbery, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur. > > > > > > I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is absolutely > > > correct. > > > > > > But this doesn't happen in a sim. I fired up GPL tonight and, atspeed

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> > down > > > Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seen > from > > > the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were as > clearly > > > defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away. > > > I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no

blurring

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> > > effect a all. > > > > > > It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developer > could > > > look into would be to recreate this real-world factor. > > > > > > Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated? > > > I would be curious to read educated comment. > > > > > > -- > > > Regards, > > > Bruce Kennewell, > > > Canberra, Australia. > > > --------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Bruce, That's a great idea. As Olav pointed out, when you look at a still movie frame of high speed motion, there's a blur. When calculating a screen to be drawn, there isn't one. I wrote a wireframe 3-D engine to test motion models with and wondered how a spinning wheel might be blurred. I hadn't thought of blurring the rest of the scenery (not that you'd want to see a blurred wire frame scene anyway). One trick could be to sort of "connect" the last frame lines and current frame lines/points/textures together somewhat, as the blur in motion pictures comes from the movement of objects while the camera shutter is still open. They're connected, aside from the period where the shutter is closed. For computer modeling, suppose a wheel is spinning 30 times per second, and your frame rate is 30 fps. Looking at the lugnuts and other markings, the wheel will look like it's standing stilll. In a movie frame, each lugnut would rotate a certain distance while the camera shutter was open and appear as a solid curved line. At 30 rotations/second, that would be 360 degrees, easy to calculate. I'm sure texture maps could be connected this way too. Definately possible, Bruce. Todd Wasson

hey brian- i thought i was the only med student on here! nice to meet you.....where are you? maybe we could form an online team.... mark "Brian V. Balgobind" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:39478eeb$0$4383@reader3... > Btw, from a medical student point of few, > > The blurring effect is because of your eyes and not because of the speed. > Actually if yuor eyes where 100% perfect that blurring would not accure.And > you can't control if a Sim gives a blurring effect actually. Like you said > that you looked in GPL is actually fooling your own eyes. Cause where you > look the image will be always focussed. That's just the nature of youreyes.

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> But maybe they will invent something...hack the real things that are > blurring are not blurred in real life to or are they ;) > > > "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht > news:[email hidden]... > > Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway > > rushing towards you at 200kph? > > Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this > > sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of

the

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> > speed at which a racing car travels. > > > > However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"? > > > > He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times) > "Dad........why > > don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?" He > then > > went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to him!) by > > pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves

towards > > you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it getsthe

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> > more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges of the > > road, the shrubbery, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur. > > > > I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is absolutely > > correct. > > > > But this doesn't happen in a sim. I fired up GPL tonight and, at speed > down > > Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seen

from > > the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were asclearly > > defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away. > > I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no blurring > > effect a all. > > > > It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developercould

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> > look into would be to recreate this real-world factor. > > > > Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated? > > I would be curious to read educated comment. > > > > -- > > Regards, > > Bruce Kennewell, > > Canberra, Australia. > > --------------------------- > > > > > > > >

You mean something like this: http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/sims/blur1.jpg Or this: http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/sims/blur2.jpg Excellent idea! I'd love to see something like this implemented. Seems to me like if they could do it in the software, rather than the hardware, there would be less actual screen to render -- by rendering the center "viewing area" only, and then "streaking" that to the endges, there would be less to actually render, which seems like it would increase frame rates dramatically. Alternately, rather than using simple streaking, you could always render with less detail at the periphery, and then streak or blur that. Either way, it sounds like a frame rate increase could be obtainable. Ideally, at slow speeds, the ENTIRE screen would be rendered, with NO blurring effect. Then, as the speed increased, less and less of the screen would be actually rendered, and more blurring would occur towards the center of your vision at higher speeds. Of course, the dashboard overlays for in-cockpit views and the gauges and such would still have to be rendered with no blur, but they're overlays anyway, so that shouldn't be too much of a problem. Wonder if anybody's working on this yet? Like I said, seems like it could be done is software, without the need for a hardware dependency. Hardware implementation would unload the CPU, but it shouldn't be required to implement the effect, I wouldn't think. -- JB In article <[email hidden]>, "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote: > Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway > rushing towards you at 200kph? > Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this > sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense ofthe > speed at which a racing car travels. > > However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"? > > He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times)"Dad........why > don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?"He then > went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to him!)by > pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery movestowards > you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer itgets the > more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges ofthe > road, the shrubbery, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur. > > I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is absolutely > correct. > > But this doesn't happen in a sim. I fired up GPL tonight and, atspeed down > Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seenfrom > the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were asclearly > defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away. > I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is noblurring > effect a all. > > It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developercould

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> look into would be to recreate this real-world factor. > > Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated? > I would be curious to read educated comment. > > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. > --------------------------- > >

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

10 to 20 percent sure sounds high to me. I believe the fovea is about the area of a pinhead on your retina. Truely critical examination of an object (or, in most cases, a portion of an object) can occur only if the image falls on that area. At normal reading distances, the the image of a colon ":" fills this area. For example, to study the quotation marks on either side, the viewer must scan over to that location. Regarding Bills comment about the blurring, the best explanation I ever read was that the eye and brain connection equates to a camera with a bout a 1/10 second shutter speed. The image of an object doesn't have to be moving that fast across the retina before it appears blurred. Check out the rotating blades of a fan or details of a rotating automobile wheel. Slap yourself on the side of the head (temple works good for me) and the eyes are momentarily knocked in one direction, often causing the distinct image of the fan blades or wheel to come into view for a small fraction of a second. Reminds me of the need to pan the camera from to follow the moving object you're photographing to keep the image from looking smeared. Bill Mette wrote:

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> > In article <39478eeb$0$4383@reader3>, > Brian V. Balgobind <[email hidden]> wrote: > >Btw, from a medical student point of few, > > > >The blurring effect is because of your eyes and not because of the speed. > >Actually if yuor eyes where 100% perfect that blurring would not accure. And > > Exactly correct. There was a human anatomy series on the Discovery Channel > in which the host (who is a Doctor) stated that only the center 10-20% of > the image on your retina is optically in focus. That wonderful rendering > engine in between your ears interpolates the rest. > > -- > | "Instead of letting the moon be the > Bill Mette | gateway to our future, we have let > Enteract, Chicago | it become a brief chapter in our > [email hidden] | history." - Andrew Chaikin

"Mark Stahl" <[email hidden]> wrote: >hey brian- >i thought i was the only med student on here! nice to meet you.....where are >you? maybe we could form an online team.... > >mark Great! Now we will see the occasional "OT: how do I reanimate my overrun fuelman?" posts.. :-) JoH ------- The best way to accelerate a Mac is 9.81 m/s2 -------- --------------------------------------------------------------

Your right, Every Sim team should add a doctor to the team to tell them how a person acts physically;) Brian "Racing Doctor" Balgobind PS: in 6 years papy can give me the job if they want ;)) "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht news:[email hidden]...

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> Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway > rushing towards you at 200kph? > Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this > sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of the > speed at which a racing car travels. > > However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"? > > He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times)

"Dad........why > don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?" Hethen

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> went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to him!) by > pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves towards > you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it gets the > more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges of the > road, the shrubbery, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur. > > I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is absolutely > correct. > > But this doesn't happen in a sim. I fired up GPL tonight and, at speed

down

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> Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seen from > the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were as clearly > defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away. > I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no blurring > effect a all. > > It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developer could > look into would be to recreate this real-world factor. > > Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated? > I would be curious to read educated comment. > > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. > --------------------------- > > >

Good points Bruce. What I was thinking the other day while motoring along at a mere 150 on a two-lane motorway, rather like the tracks one finds in NFS, was that the perception of speed isn't so far off in a lot of games. Everyone seems to be expecting Wipeout2087 levels of visual stimulus, but at speeds up to 200kph, unless you have a lot of scenery very close to you, there isn't an overwhelming sense of speed. Unless you drive a Caterham. By the way, Rally Championship nails it on the head with a feeling of speed, but only when the scenery closes in on the sides. I actually think it's all fine, but motion blur at the edges would be a nice touch. Notice, NFS:Porsche tries a clever trick with subtly blurred textures. Not exactly what you have in mind, but I find it contributes to the feeling, and looks good in replays. Stephen Bruce Kennewell <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway > rushing towards you at 200kph? > Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this > sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of the > speed at which a racing car travels. > > However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"? > > He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times)

"Dad........why > don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?" Hethen

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> went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to him!) by > pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves towards > you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it gets the > more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges of the > road, the shrubbery, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur. > > I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is absolutely > correct. > > But this doesn't happen in a sim. I fired up GPL tonight and, at speed

down

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> Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seen from > the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were as clearly > defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away. > I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no blurring > effect a all. > > It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developer could > look into would be to recreate this real-world factor. > > Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated? > I would be curious to read educated comment. > > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. > --------------------------- > > >

Btw, from a medical student point of few, The blurring effect is because of your eyes and not because of the speed. Actually if yuor eyes where 100% perfect that blurring would not accure. And you can't control if a Sim gives a blurring effect actually. Like you said that you looked in GPL is actually fooling your own eyes. Cause where you look the image will be always focussed. That's just the nature of your eyes. But maybe they will invent something...hack the real things that are blurring are not blurred in real life to or are they ;) "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht news:[email hidden]...

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> Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway > rushing towards you at 200kph? > Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this > sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of the > speed at which a racing car travels. > > However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"? > > He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times)

"Dad........why > don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?" Hethen

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> went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to him!) by > pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves towards > you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it gets the > more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges of the > road, the shrubbery, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur. > > I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is absolutely > correct. > > But this doesn't happen in a sim. I fired up GPL tonight and, at speed

down

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> Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seen from > the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were as clearly > defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away. > I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no blurring > effect a all. > > It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developer could > look into would be to recreate this real-world factor. > > Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated? > I would be curious to read educated comment. > > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. > --------------------------- > > >

I noticed the same thing with an arcade game called Ferrari 355 that uses 3 screens to wrap around your peripheral vision. The only problem is that the two side screens (at 45deg angle to main) show the scenery at the same rate as your forward view. If you look out your side window while driving a real car trees and stuff are WHIPPING by. While it may be difficult to change the speed of objects in a game that uses only one monitor I would have thought that a game with 3 unique monitors could have fixed this obvious problem with the perception of speed. On Wed, 14 Jun 2000 23:33:35 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway >rushing towards you at 200kph? >Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this >sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of the >speed at which a racing car travels. > >However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"? > >He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times) "Dad........why >don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?" He then >went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to him!) by >pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves towards >you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it gets the >more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges of the >road, the shrubbery, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur. > >I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is absolutely >correct. > >But this doesn't happen in a sim. I fired up GPL tonight and, at speed down >Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seen from >the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were as clearly >defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away. >I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no blurring >effect a all. > >It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developer could >look into would be to recreate this real-world factor. > >Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated? >I would be curious to read educated comment. > >-- >Regards, >Bruce Kennewell, >Canberra, Australia. >--------------------------- > > >

Btw, from a medical student point of few, The blurring effect is because of your eyes and not because of the speed. Actually if yuor eyes where 100% perfect that blurring would not accure. And you can't control if a Sim gives a blurring effect actually. Like you said that you looked in GPL is actually fooling your own eyes. Cause where you look the image will be always focussed. That's just the nature of your eyes. But maybe they will invent something...hack the real things that are blurring are not blurred in real life to or are they ;)

"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway > rushing towards you at 200kph? > Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this > sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of the > speed at which a racing car travels. > > However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"? > > He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times) "Dad........why > don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?" He then > went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to him!) by > pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves towards > you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it gets the > more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges of the > road, the shrubbery, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur. > > I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is absolutely > correct. > > But this doesn't happen in a sim. I fired up GPL tonight and, at speed down > Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seen from > the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were as clearly > defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away. > I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no blurring > effect a all. > > It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developer could > look into would be to recreate this real-world factor. > > Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated? > I would be curious to read educated comment.

Good observation by both your son and you, Bruce. We have a fullsize car and truck simulator here at work, with 3 big screens in the front, and the effect of a sharp image with bad framerate on the edges is a real problem. What we need is the motion-blur effect. Think of a cinematic movie. It's 24 frames per second, and every computergamer would call that jerky. But it isn't, because things in movement is blurred if you study each frame. A frame of movie is what happened during the whole 1/24th of a second, but a frame on the computer is what everything looks like at that particular time. There is a very good article somewhere on the web about this, and the link has been posted many times here on r.a.s. I just can't remember it, sorry. btw, the new 3DFX T-buffer is supporting cinematic motion-blur, but the software has to support it. When new sims will support this feature, we're talking business. -- Olav K. Malmin remove spam when replying

Hi Bruce, I think what you're referring to is the optical effect which happens to objects and scenery as they pass from your primary to your peripheral vision. I think, therefore, that to do this successfully, a sim must expand to widescreen or somehow show peripheral limits, or it would look goofy because not much in your forward 45 degrees or so of "clear vision" *should* be blurry.. Just a guess. Andrew Bruce Kennewell wrote:

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> Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway > rushing towards you at 200kph? > Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this > sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of the > speed at which a racing car travels. > > However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"? > > He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times) "Dad........why > don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?" He then > went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to him!) by > pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves towards > you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it gets the > more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges of the > road, the shrubbery, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur. > > I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is absolutely > correct. > > But this doesn't happen in a sim. I fired up GPL tonight and, at speed down > Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seen from > the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were as clearly > defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away. > I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no blurring > effect a all. > > It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developer could > look into would be to recreate this real-world factor. > > Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated? > I would be curious to read educated comment. > > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. > ---------------------------

On Wed, 14 Jun 2000 23:33:35 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated? >I would be curious to read educated comment. It's possible to do on a Voodoo5, but I doubt any developer would do it for one video card. -- Nos

In article <39478eeb$0$4383@reader3>, Brian V. Balgobind <[email hidden]> wrote: >Btw, from a medical student point of few, > >The blurring effect is because of your eyes and not because of the speed. >Actually if yuor eyes where 100% perfect that blurring would not accure. And Exactly correct. There was a human anatomy series on the Discovery Channel in which the host (who is a Doctor) stated that only the center 10-20% of the image on your retina is optically in focus. That wonderful rendering engine in between your ears interpolates the rest. -- | "Instead of letting the moon be the Bill Mette | gateway to our future, we have let Enteract, Chicago | it become a brief chapter in our [email hidden] | history." - Andrew Chaikin

3dfx is trying to tackle that problem with their Motion Blur T-buffer technology. But from what I can tell it hasn't been too well received yet. But I can tell you the Playstation 2 can do a blurring effect and in a recent tradeshow report I saw...the motion blur was referred to as the MOST OVER_USED EFFECT. I would assume they looked on it like many do the sunglare common now in many sims. dave henrie Bruce Kennewell wrote: > > Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway > rushing towards you at 200kph? >

"Brian V. Balgobind" <[email hidden]> writes: > The blurring effect is because of your eyes and not because of the speed. True. The correct way (imo) to improve the feeling of speed is to increase the framerate (quite easy if you have enough graphics power to start thinking about motion blur) and to increase the size of the screen (a bit harder if you can't afford a good projection system). Higher frame rate makes fast motions on the screen "move" instead of "stutter". Larger screens fools the brain better since you see less of the stationary surroundings. A cheaper solution is to put a large fan on the top of your monitor :-) _ Mats Lofkvist [email hidden]

Ahh! My head hurts. You should of written a disclaimer about the kncoking yourself in the head test :) Ken Morano <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> 10 to 20 percent sure sounds high to me. > > I believe the fovea is about the area of a pinhead on your retina. > Truely critical examination of an object (or, in most cases, a portion > of an object) can occur only if the image falls on that area. At normal > reading distances, the the image of a colon ":" fills this area. For > example, to study the quotation marks on either side, the viewer must > scan over to that location. > > Regarding Bills comment about the blurring, the best explanation I ever > read was that the eye and brain connection equates to a camera with a > bout a 1/10 second shutter speed. The image of an object doesn't have > to be moving that fast across the retina before it appears blurred. > > Check out the rotating blades of a fan or details of a rotating > automobile wheel. Slap yourself on the side of the head (temple works > good for me) and the eyes are momentarily knocked in one direction, > often causing the distinct image of the fan blades or wheel to come into > view for a small fraction of a second. > > Reminds me of the need to pan the camera from to follow the moving > object you're photographing to keep the image from looking smeared. > > > > Bill Mette wrote: > > > > In article <39478eeb$0$4383@reader3>, > > Brian V. Balgobind <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Btw, from a medical student point of few, > > > > > >The blurring effect is because of your eyes and not because of the

speed. > > >Actually if yuor eyes where 100% perfect that blurring would notaccure. And > > > > Exactly correct. There was a human anatomy series on the DiscoveryChannel > > in which the host (who is a Doctor) stated that only the center 10-20%of > > the image on your retina is optically in focus. That wonderfulrendering

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> > engine in between your ears interpolates the rest. > > > > -- > > | "Instead of letting the moon be the > > Bill Mette | gateway to our future, we have let > > Enteract, Chicago | it become a brief chapter in our > > [email hidden] | history." - Andrew Chaikin

I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with the reason for the blurring. Not that what everyone is saying about our eyes not being perfect, or about peripheral vision is wrong, but just that in this case it's not the reason. It's much simpler than that. Stare at a point on your monitor now and pass your hand in front of it at a moderate speed (like you are waving). You hand is blurred, but it's in your primary view. You simply are not following it and are not focused on it. Your focus is about the same at 100 or 300 yards, and, something coming at you at that distance is easy for your eyes to follow with very, very little movement because it's still in front of you. Your focus at 1 foot and 3 feet is quite different. It's also different at 50 yards and 100 yards. As something gets closer and let's say is 30 yards to you left, it's not easy to follow without large eye movements, and, your focus is still, hopefully, 300 yards on the road ahead. -- Slot www.slottweak.com Tweaks & Reviews "Brian V. Balgobind" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:39478eeb$0$4383@reader3... > Btw, from a medical student point of few, > > The blurring effect is because of your eyes and not because of the speed. > Actually if yuor eyes where 100% perfect that blurring would not accure. And > you can't control if a Sim gives a blurring effect actually. Like you said > that you looked in GPL is actually fooling your own eyes. Cause where you > look the image will be always focussed. That's just the nature of your eyes. > But maybe they will invent something...hack the real things that are > blurring are not blurred in real life to or are they ;) > > > "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht > news:[email hidden]... > > Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway > > rushing towards you at 200kph? > > Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this > > sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of the > > speed at which a racing car travels. > > > > However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"? > > > > He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times) > "Dad........why > > don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?" He > then > > went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to him!) by > > pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves towards > > you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it gets the > > more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges of the > > road, the shrubbery, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur. > > > > I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is absolutely > > correct. > > > > But this doesn't happen in a sim. I fired up GPL tonight and, at speed > down > > Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seen from > > the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were as clearly > > defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away. > > I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no blurring > > effect a all. > > > > It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developer could > > look into would be to recreate this real-world factor. > > > > Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated? > > I would be curious to read educated comment. > > > > -- > > Regards, > > Bruce Kennewell, > > Canberra, Australia. > > --------------------------- > > > > > > > >

Bruce, did you ever dream of a hyperstim? Well this is your chance! :) Jon Crooke <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws [email hidden]...

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> Bruce, > > You're a man I could sit down with for a chat. Welcome at Hyper anytime. > > Regards > Jon Crooke > > _____________________________________________ > "THE WORLD'S BEST HOME RACING CAR SIMULATOR" > HYPER STIMULATOR INTERNATIONAL P/L > www.hyperstimulator.com > > In article <[email hidden]>, "Bruce Kennewell" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway > > rushing towards you at 200kph? > > Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this > > sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of

the > > speed at which a racing car travels. > > > > However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"? > > > > He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times)"Dad........why > > don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?" Hethen > > went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to him!) by > > pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery movestowards > > you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it getsthe

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> > more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges of the > > road, the shrubbery, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur. > > > > I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is absolutely > > correct. > > > > But this doesn't happen in a sim. I fired up GPL tonight and, at speed

down > > Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seenfrom > > the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were asclearly > > defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away. > > I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no blurring > > effect a all. > > > > It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developercould

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> > look into would be to recreate this real-world factor. > > > > Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated? > > I would be curious to read educated comment. > > > > -- > > Regards, > > Bruce Kennewell, > > Canberra, Australia. > > --------------------------- > > > > > >

Olav K. Malmin <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> btw, the new 3DFX T-buffer is supporting cinematic motion-blur, but > the software has to support it. When new sims will support this > feature, we're talking business. > > > -- > Olav K. Malmin > remove spam when replying

hey cinematic motion blur is coming ?? WOW hope it works at 32bit color too ( a pun for 3DFX ) anything from 3DFX , take it with a spadeful of salt but lets hope someone else will take it up and really make it work.......

Bingo! Todd Wasson

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>Now, if there were only an aggressive, forward-thinking monitor mfg. >that would come out with a 17" hi-res monitor with a high-persistence >phosphor tuned to enhance the motion-blur effect and was targeted >specifically at the simulator market. We'd get an enhanced sensation >of speed and no framerate hit! > >Regards, >Brett C. Cammack >That's Racing! Motorsports >Pompano Beach, FL > >

The only problem is the blurring is ONLY in your peripheral vision (in real life) and when I am sitting at my 21" monitor the only thing in my peripheral vision is a bookcase on my left and a printer stand on my right. Without some kind of VR headset all this blurring talk is pointless. If you blur the picture on the monitor (as shown in the images below) it just looks like a visual effect. Reminded me of the POV shots of the water tentical in the ABYSS. While I am driving a real car and looing forward NOTHING is blurred in my forward vision through the windshield and in most racing games that is all that is visible in the cockpit view. I suppose they could blur the scenerly around the lower corners where the side mirrors are but it probably wouldn't be worth the effort. On Wed, 14 Jun 2000 20:20:47 GMT, [email hidden] wrote:

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>You mean something like this: > >http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/sims/blur1.jpg > >Or this: > >http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/sims/blur2.jpg > >Excellent idea! I'd love to see something like this implemented. >Seems to me like if they could do it in the software, rather than the >hardware, there would be less actual screen to render -- by rendering >the center "viewing area" only, and then "streaking" that to the >endges, there would be less to actually render, which seems like it >would increase frame rates dramatically. Alternately, rather than >using simple streaking, you could always render with less detail at the >periphery, and then streak or blur that. Either way, it sounds like a >frame rate increase could be obtainable. > >Ideally, at slow speeds, the ENTIRE screen would be rendered, with NO >blurring effect. Then, as the speed increased, less and less of the >screen would be actually rendered, and more blurring would occur >towards the center of your vision at higher speeds. Of course, the >dashboard overlays for in-cockpit views and the gauges and such would >still have to be rendered with no blur, but they're overlays anyway, so >that shouldn't be too much of a problem. > >Wonder if anybody's working on this yet? Like I said, seems like it >could be done is software, without the need for a hardware dependency. >Hardware implementation would unload the CPU, but it shouldn't be >required to implement the effect, I wouldn't think. > >-- JB > >In article <[email hidden]>, > "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote: >> Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway >> rushing towards you at 200kph? >> Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this >> sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of >the >> speed at which a racing car travels. >> >> However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"? >> >> He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times) >"Dad........why >> don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?" >He then >> went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to him!) >by >> pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves >towards >> you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it >gets the >> more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges of >the >> road, the shrubbery, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur. >> >> I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is absolutely >> correct. >> >> But this doesn't happen in a sim. I fired up GPL tonight and, at >speed down >> Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seen >from >> the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were as >clearly >> defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away. >> I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no >blurring >> effect a all. >> >> It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developer >could >> look into would be to recreate this real-world factor. >> >> Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated? >> I would be curious to read educated comment. >> >> -- >> Regards, >> Bruce Kennewell, >> Canberra, Australia. >> --------------------------- >> >> > > >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ >Before you buy.

ONLY if they speed up the side monitors. Currently Ferrari 355 has 3 monitors and all 3 depict the scenery at the same speed which actually makes you look like you are going much slower than your speedometer incicates. There is NO sensation of speed with this game. Good idea - poorly implemented. On Thu, 15 Jun 2000 13:45:03 -0700, Jade Andrews <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Most racing games would look like you were going faster (or the >correct speed) if you had 3 monitors, one at each side for the >peripheral vision, like when you look out the sides in GPL. > >I think peripheral vision is the most important factor in sense of >speed. > >

Those shots are a bit exaggerated -- I would say you'd be doing in the neighborhood of 200+ mph to get that kind of blur, but I wanted to make sure it was a noticeable blur to get the idea across. -- JB In article <[email hidden]>, "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote: > Yes, John...that's along the lines of what I'm picturing, although (Iassume > that they're from NFS) the shots are *too* blurry...or, moreaccurately, the > blur comes in too far from the edges. (Maybe I should look at it in-game > rather than judge via a single screen-shot.) > > But what you've stated is certainly akin to my perception of how thesense

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> of speed could be conveyed, yes. > > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. > --------------------------- > > <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:8i8pea$ekb$[email hidden]...

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> > You mean something like this: > > > > http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/sims/blur1.jpg > > > > Or this: > > > > http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/sims/blur2.jpg > > > > Excellent idea! I'd love to see something like this implemented. > > Seems to me like if they could do it in the software, rather than

the > > hardware, there would be less actual screen to render -- byrendering > > the center "viewing area" only, and then "streaking" that to the > > endges, there would be less to actually render, which seems like it > > would increase frame rates dramatically. Alternately, rather than > > using simple streaking, you could always render with less detail atthe > > periphery, and then streak or blur that. Either way, it soundslike a > > frame rate increase could be obtainable. > > > > Ideally, at slow speeds, the ENTIRE screen would be rendered, withNO > > blurring effect. Then, as the speed increased, less and less of the > > screen would be actually rendered, and more blurring would occur > > towards the center of your vision at higher speeds. Of course, the > > dashboard overlays for in-cockpit views and the gauges and suchwould > > still have to be rendered with no blur, but they're overlaysanyway, so > > that shouldn't be too much of a problem. > > > > Wonder if anybody's working on this yet? Like I said, seems like it > > could be done is software, without the need for a hardwaredependency.

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> > Hardware implementation would unload the CPU, but it shouldn't be > > required to implement the effect, I wouldn't think. > > > > -- JB > > > > In article <[email hidden]>, > > "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a

roadway > > > rushing towards you at 200kph? > > > Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portraythis > > > sensation in a manner that will give the player an effectivesense of > > the > > > speed at which a racing car travels. > > > > > > However, have you ever considered what my son refers toas "blurring"? > > > > > > He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times) > > "Dad........why > > > don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?" > > He then > > > went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled tohim!) > > by > > > pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves > > towards > > > you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it > > gets the > > > more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edgesof > > the > > > road, the shrubbery, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur. > > > > > > I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he isabsolutely > > > correct. > > > > > > But this doesn't happen in a sim. I fired up GPL tonight and, at > > speed down > > > Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (asseen > > from > > > the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were as > > clearly > > > defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometreaway. > > > I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no > > blurring > > > effect a all. > > > > > > It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that adeveloper

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> > could > > > look into would be to recreate this real-world factor. > > > > > > Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated? > > > I would be curious to read educated comment. > > > > > > -- > > > Regards, > > > Bruce Kennewell, > > > Canberra, Australia. > > > --------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > Before you buy. > >

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

On Wed, 14 Jun 2000 20:34:19 +0200, "Brian V. Balgobind" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Hey Marc, > >Nice to see that i'm not the only one too;) > 10 years out of medical school here hehe. NL also. Dolle Dolf

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>I'm from the Netherlands and this is my first year...wel almost my second >year if i pass this month:) >I'm already in a online team started the team since last year when we >competed in the RS2 League. Check out the team at www.gssilver.cjb.net We >are trying to compete at different front's now and have a good line up of >drivers. We are open for all drivers from all levels. > >Brian "Racing Doctor" Balgobind > >"Mark Stahl" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht >news:8i8i30$4ff$[email hidden]... >> hey brian- >> i thought i was the only med student on here! nice to meet you.....where >are >> you? maybe we could form an online team.... >> >> mark >> >> "Brian V. Balgobind" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:39478eeb$0$4383@reader3... >> > Btw, from a medical student point of few, >> > >> > The blurring effect is because of your eyes and not because of the >speed. >> > Actually if yuor eyes where 100% perfect that blurring would not accure. >> And >> > you can't control if a Sim gives a blurring effect actually. Like you >said >> > that you looked in GPL is actually fooling your own eyes. Cause where >you >> > look the image will be always focussed. That's just the nature of your >> eyes. >> > But maybe they will invent something...hack the real things that are >> > blurring are not blurred in real life to or are they ;) >> > >> > >> > "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht >> > news:[email hidden]... >> > > Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway >> > > rushing towards you at 200kph? >> > > Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this >> > > sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of >> the >> > > speed at which a racing car travels. >> > > >> > > However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"? >> > > >> > > He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times) >> > "Dad........why >> > > don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?" He >> > then >> > > went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to him!) >by >> > > pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves >> towards >> > > you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it gets >> the >> > > more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges of >the >> > > road, the shrubbery, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur. >> > > >> > > I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is absolutely >> > > correct. >> > > >> > > But this doesn't happen in a sim. I fired up GPL tonight and, at >speed >> > down >> > > Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seen >> from >> > > the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were as >> clearly >> > > defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away. >> > > I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no >blurring >> > > effect a all. >> > > >> > > It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developer >> could >> > > look into would be to recreate this real-world factor. >> > > >> > > Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated? >> > > I would be curious to read educated comment. >> > > >> > > -- >> > > Regards, >> > > Bruce Kennewell, >> > > Canberra, Australia. >> > > --------------------------- >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> >> > >

JTW62074 <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > For computer modeling, suppose a wheel is spinning 30 times per second,and > your frame rate is 30 fps. Looking at the lugnuts and other markings, the > wheel will look like it's standing stilll. In a movie frame, each lugnutwould > rotate a certain distance while the camera shutter was open and appear asa > solid curved line. At 30 rotations/second, that would be 360 degrees,easy to > calculate. I'm sure texture maps could be connected this way too. > Definately possible, Bruce. > Depends on the camera shutter speed... Stephen

Heh heh... I played GP2 on a dual-scan LCD notebook as well. I considered the screen to be a "leading edge, hardware assisted motion blur device". Every time I switched to a normal monitor, the framerate seemed to dive, but in fact I was just seeing each frame clearly for a change. I enjoyed it much more on the blurry, slow LCD. Stephen GD <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > When I first got my hands on GP2, I only had a notebook PC > with a [colour] LCD screen. > I'm not sure what the technology was for the screen, but its > update/refresh rate wasnt the fastest in the world. > What this meant for playing the game is that whn one image was > being displayed, the pixels for the previous screen were still > showing slightly (or maybe it took a few microseconds for each > pixel to change state or whatever). > > Anyway, the point is that the game blurred, and my word did > it look like I was driving fast! > Since the images displayed near the edge of the screen were > more "different" for each frame than the images near the > centre of the screen, the sides were more blurred than the > front. > > So guys... go out and see if you can get yourself a monitor > of some kind that does this. Its ace! > > > > cheers... > >

Bruce, You're a man I could sit down with for a chat. Welcome at Hyper anytime. Regards Jon Crooke _____________________________________________ "THE WORLD'S BEST HOME RACING CAR SIMULATOR" HYPER STIMULATOR INTERNATIONAL P/L www.hyperstimulator.com In article <[email hidden]>, "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway > rushing towards you at 200kph? > Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this > sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of the > speed at which a racing car travels. > > However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"? > > He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times) "Dad........why > don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?" He then > went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to him!) by > pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves towards > you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it gets the > more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges of the > road, the shrubbery, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur. > > I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is absolutely > correct. > > But this doesn't happen in a sim. I fired up GPL tonight and, at speed down > Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seen from > the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were as clearly > defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away. > I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no blurring > effect a all. > > It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developer could > look into would be to recreate this real-world factor. > > Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated? > I would be curious to read educated comment. > > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. > --------------------------- > > >

Actually you should know how many poeples life are getting save by reanimation. Well i didn't start the topic and never will involve it unless the topic askes for it. And it seems pretty reasonable here...or have you read more nonsence post of me about overrun fuelmans?:) "Jo Helsen" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht news:[email hidden]... > "Mark Stahl" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >hey brian- > >i thought i was the only med student on here! nice to meet you.....whereare

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> >you? maybe we could form an online team.... > > > >mark > > Great! Now we will see the occasional > > "OT: how do I reanimate my overrun fuelman?" > > posts.. :-) > > JoH > > ------- The best way to accelerate a Mac is 9.81 m/s2 -------- > --------------------------------------------------------------

Funny that the only thing you could think of was Stethoscope ;) I was more thinking of ER.....Emergency Racing "EldredP" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht news:[email hidden]... > In article <8i8i30$4ff$[email hidden]>, "Mark Stahl" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >hey brian- > >i thought i was the only med student on here! nice to meet you.....whereare

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> >you? maybe we could form an online team.... > > > >mark > > Team Stethoscope? :) > > Eldred > -- > Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPL hcp. 2:12.80 minutes-GPLRank:345 and falling.. > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Uhmm..isn't that what i said...your eyes are not 100% perfect;) Your eyes just can't follow it. Thre has been a simple test for this actually that it are your eyes that can't follow it (similiar actually to your hanwaving). It's called nystagmus. Some poeple have this as a handicap. But normal poeple have signes of this too. Just think that you are sitting in a car...who what a related topic ;) And your starring out of the window and looking at nothing well see it as day dreaming. If you look at the iris of those poeple yuo will notice how busy they are going from left to right to follow the things..but they simply can't..if they could then you would never have a blurred vision. Think i'm getting off topic now...read some neurological book or something to get more info on this ;) Brian "Racing Doctor" Balgobind "GTX_SlotCar" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht news:k4T15.4254$[email hidden]... > I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with the reason for the blurring. Notthat > what everyone is saying about our eyes not being perfect, or about > peripheral vision is wrong, but just that in this case it's not thereason. > It's much simpler than that. Stare at a point on your monitor now and pass > your hand in front of it at a moderate speed (like you are waving). Youhand > is blurred, but it's in your primary view. You simply are not following it > and are not focused on it. Your focus is about the same at 100 or 300yards, > and, something coming at you at that distance is easy for your eyes to > follow with very, very little movement because it's still in front of you. > Your focus at 1 foot and 3 feet is quite different. It's also different at > 50 yards and 100 yards. As something gets closer and let's say is 30 yards > to you left, it's not easy to follow without large eye movements, and,your

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> focus is still, hopefully, 300 yards on the road ahead. > > -- > > Slot > www.slottweak.com > Tweaks & Reviews > > > "Brian V. Balgobind" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:39478eeb$0$4383@reader3... > > Btw, from a medical student point of few, > > > > The blurring effect is because of your eyes and not because of the

speed. > > Actually if yuor eyes where 100% perfect that blurring would not accure. > And > > you can't control if a Sim gives a blurring effect actually. Like yousaid > > that you looked in GPL is actually fooling your own eyes. Cause whereyou

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> > look the image will be always focussed. That's just the nature of your > eyes. > > But maybe they will invent something...hack the real things that are > > blurring are not blurred in real life to or are they ;) > > > > > > "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway > > > rushing towards you at 200kph? > > > Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this > > > sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of > the > > > speed at which a racing car travels. > > > > > > However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"? > > > > > > He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times) > > "Dad........why > > > don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?" He > > then > > > went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to him!)

by > > > pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves > towards > > > you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it gets > the > > > more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges ofthe > > > road, the shrubbery, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur. > > > > > > I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is absolutely > > > correct. > > > > > > But this doesn't happen in a sim. I fired up GPL tonight and, atspeed

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> > down > > > Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seen > from > > > the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were as > clearly > > > defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away. > > > I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no

blurring

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> > > effect a all. > > > > > > It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developer > could > > > look into would be to recreate this real-world factor. > > > > > > Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated? > > > I would be curious to read educated comment. > > > > > > -- > > > Regards, > > > Bruce Kennewell, > > > Canberra, Australia. > > > --------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

In article <39480822$0$14878@reader2>, "Brian V. Balgobind" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Funny that the only thing you could think of was Stethoscope ;) >I was more thinking of ER.....Emergency Racing > > >"EldredP" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht >news:[email hidden]... >> In article <8i8i30$4ff$[email hidden]>, "Mark Stahl" >> <[email hidden]> writes: >> >> >hey brian- >> >i thought i was the only med student on here! nice to meet you.....where >are >> >you? maybe we could form an online team.... >> > >> >mark >> >> Team Stethoscope? :) >>

Well, I was at work, and under a lot of stress...<g> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. 2:12.80 minutes-GPLRank:345 and falling.. Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Most racing games would look like you were going faster (or the correct speed) if you had 3 monitors, one at each side for the peripheral vision, like when you look out the sides in GPL. I think peripheral vision is the most important factor in sense of speed.

The faster you move, the smaller you viewing angle becomes. This is one of the few things I remember from the driving school. (that's one of the reasons why you should drive slow in the city, that's what they told me, so you could see much more around you) when traveling at 30 mph you can have a viewing angle of 120�(just guessing here) while you move at 100 mph you can only have a viewing angle of for example 60�. I don't know a single sim wich does this. When you look to your left in gpl you see the trees flashing by but you can clearly see textures, there is no blurring at all. Bruce Kennewell <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws [email hidden]...

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> Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway > rushing towards you at 200kph? > Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this > sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of the > speed at which a racing car travels. > > However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"? > > He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times)

"Dad........why > don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?" Hethen

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> went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to him!) by > pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves towards > you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it gets the > more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges of the > road, the shrubbery, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur. > > I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is absolutely > correct. > > But this doesn't happen in a sim. I fired up GPL tonight and, at speed

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> Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seen from > the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were as clearly > defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away. > I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no blurring > effect a all. > > It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developer could > look into would be to recreate this real-world factor. > > Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated? > I would be curious to read educated comment. > > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. > --------------------------- > > >

Wasn't aimed directly at you, Brian, just at the point of view in general. It may be what you meant, I had a hard time understanding. Still, your English is better than my German ;-) -- Slot www.slottweak.com Tweaks & Reviews "Brian V. Balgobind" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:394806c9$0$6282@reader4... > Uhmm..isn't that what i said...your eyes are not 100% perfect;) Your eyes > just can't follow it. Thre has been a simple test for this actually that it > are your eyes that can't follow it (similiar actually to your hanwaving). > It's called nystagmus. Some poeple have this as a handicap. But normal > poeple have signes of this too. Just think that you are sitting in a > car...who what a related topic ;) And your starring out of the window and > looking at nothing well see it as day dreaming. If you look at the iris of > those poeple yuo will notice how busy they are going from left to right to > follow the things..but they simply can't..if they could then you would never > have a blurred vision. > > Think i'm getting off topic now...read some neurological book or something > to get more info on this ;) > > Brian "Racing Doctor" Balgobind > > "GTX_SlotCar" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht > news:k4T15.4254$[email hidden]... > > I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with the reason for the blurring. Not > that > > what everyone is saying about our eyes not being perfect, or about > > peripheral vision is wrong, but just that in this case it's not the > reason. > > It's much simpler than that. Stare at a point on your monitor now and pass > > your hand in front of it at a moderate speed (like you are waving). You > hand > > is blurred, but it's in your primary view. You simply are not following it > > and are not focused on it. Your focus is about the same at 100 or 300 > yards, > > and, something coming at you at that distance is easy for your eyes to > > follow with very, very little movement because it's still in front of you. > > Your focus at 1 foot and 3 feet is quite different. It's also different at > > 50 yards and 100 yards. As something gets closer and let's say is 30 yards > > to you left, it's not easy to follow without large eye movements, and, > your > > focus is still, hopefully, 300 yards on the road ahead. > > > > -- > > > > Slot > > www.slottweak.com > > Tweaks & Reviews > > > > > > "Brian V. Balgobind" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:39478eeb$0$4383@reader3... > > > Btw, from a medical student point of few, > > > > > > The blurring effect is because of your eyes and not because of the > speed. > > > Actually if yuor eyes where 100% perfect that blurring would not accure. > > And > > > you can't control if a Sim gives a blurring effect actually. Like you > said > > > that you looked in GPL is actually fooling your own eyes. Cause where > you > > > look the image will be always focussed. That's just the nature of your > > eyes. > > > But maybe they will invent something...hack the real things that are > > > blurring are not blurred in real life to or are they ;) > > > > > > > > > "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway > > > > rushing towards you at 200kph? > > > > Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this > > > > sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of > > the > > > > speed at which a racing car travels. > > > > > > > > However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"? > > > > > > > > He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times) > > > "Dad........why > > > > don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?" He > > > then > > > > went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to him!) > by > > > > pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves > > towards > > > > you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it gets > > the > > > > more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges of > the > > > > road, the shrubbery, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur. > > > > > > > > I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is absolutely > > > > correct. > > > > > > > > But this doesn't happen in a sim. I fired up GPL tonight and, at > speed > > > down > > > > Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seen > > from > > > > the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were as > > clearly > > > > defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away. > > > > I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no > blurring > > > > effect a all. > > > > > > > > It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developer > > could > > > > look into would be to recreate this real-world factor. > > > > > > > > Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated? > > > > I would be curious to read educated comment. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Regards, > > > > Bruce Kennewell, > > > > Canberra, Australia. > > > > --------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> >Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway >rushing towards you at 200kph? >Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this >sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of the >speed at which a racing car travels. > >However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"?

When I first got my hands on GP2, I only had a notebook PC with a [colour] LCD screen. I'm not sure what the technology was for the screen, but its update/refresh rate wasnt the fastest in the world. What this meant for playing the game is that whn one image was being displayed, the pixels for the previous screen were still showing slightly (or maybe it took a few microseconds for each pixel to change state or whatever). Anyway, the point is that the game blurred, and my word did it look like I was driving fast! Since the images displayed near the edge of the screen were more "different" for each frame than the images near the centre of the screen, the sides were more blurred than the front. So guys... go out and see if you can get yourself a monitor of some kind that does this. Its ace! cheers...

Team Pacemaker.... could be good....setting the pace...or could be bad...the team is on life-support. dave henrie EldredP wrote:

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> > In article <39480822$0$14878@reader2>, "Brian V. Balgobind" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Funny that the only thing you could think of was Stethoscope ;) > >I was more thinking of ER.....Emergency Racing > > > > > >"EldredP" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht > >news:[email hidden]... > >> In article <8i8i30$4ff$[email hidden]>, "Mark Stahl" > >> <[email hidden]> writes: > >> > >> >hey brian- > >> >i thought i was the only med student on here! nice to meet you.....where > >are > >> >you? maybe we could form an online team.... > >> > > >> >mark > >> > >> Team Stethoscope? :) > >> > > Well, I was at work, and under a lot of stress...<g> > > Eldred > -- > Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPL hcp. 2:12.80 minutes-GPLRank:345 and falling.. > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway rushing towards you at 200kph? Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of the speed at which a racing car travels. However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"? He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times) "Dad........why don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?" He then went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to him!) by pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves towards you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it gets the more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges of the road, the shrubbery, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur. I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is absolutely correct. But this doesn't happen in a sim. I fired up GPL tonight and, at speed down Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seen from the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were as clearly defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away. I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no blurring effect a all. It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developer could look into would be to recreate this real-world factor. Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated? I would be curious to read educated comment. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. ---------------------------

Thanks, Olav. It's comforting to know that neither I nor my son are completely nuts! :-) -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Olav K. Malmin <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway > > rushing towards you at 200kph? > > Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this > > sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of the > > speed at which a racing car travels. > > > > However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"? > > > > He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times) "Dad........why > > don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?" He then > > went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to him!) by > > pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves towards > > you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it gets the > > more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges of the > > road, the shrubbery, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur. > > > > I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is absolutely > > correct. > > > > But this doesn't happen in a sim. I fired up GPL tonight and, at speed down > > Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seen from > > the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were as clearly > > defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away. > > I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no blurring > > effect a all. > > > > It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developer could > > look into would be to recreate this real-world factor. > > > > Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated? > > I would be curious to read educated comment. > > Good observation by both your son and you, Bruce. > > We have a fullsize car and truck simulator here at work, with 3 big > screens in the front, and the effect of a sharp image with bad > framerate on the edges is a real problem. > > What we need is the motion-blur effect. Think of a cinematic > movie. It's 24 frames per second, and every computergamer would call > that jerky. But it isn't, because things in movement is blurred if you > study each frame. A frame of movie is what happened during the whole > 1/24th of a second, but a frame on the computer is what everything > looks like at that particular time. > > There is a very good article somewhere on the web about this, and the > link has been posted many times here on r.a.s. I just can't remember > it, sorry. > > btw, the new 3DFX T-buffer is supporting cinematic motion-blur, but > the software has to support it. When new sims will support this > feature, we're talking business. > > > -- > Olav K. Malmin > remove spam when replying

Hmm. Okay, thanks for that, Brian. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Brian V. Balgobind <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:39478cf9$0$5921@reader4... > Your right, > > Every Sim team should add a doctor to the team to tell them how a person > acts physically;) > > Brian "Racing Doctor" Balgobind > > PS: in 6 years papy can give me the job if they want ;)) > > "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht > news:[email hidden]... > > Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway > > rushing towards you at 200kph? > > Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this > > sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of the > > speed at which a racing car travels. > > > > However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"? > > > > He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times) > "Dad........why > > don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?" He > then > > went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to him!) by > > pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves towards > > you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it gets the > > more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges of the > > road, the shrubbery, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur. > > > > I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is absolutely > > correct. > > > > But this doesn't happen in a sim. I fired up GPL tonight and, at speed > down > > Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seen from > > the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were as clearly > > defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away. > > I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no blurring > > effect a all. > > > > It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developer could > > look into would be to recreate this real-world factor. > > > > Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated? > > I would be curious to read educated comment. > > > > -- > > Regards, > > Bruce Kennewell, > > Canberra, Australia. > > --------------------------- > > > > > > > >

Yes...I see what you mean, Andrew. But even if what was on the periphery (left and right-hand sides) of the screen was "blurred" for maybe 15 to 20 mm it would help the speed effect, domn't you think? It's odd, but I get a better sensation of speed when playing GPL at 640 x 480 than I do when in 1024 x 768 resolution. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Andrew Turner <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Hi Bruce, > > I think what you're referring to is the optical effect which happens to objects > and scenery as they pass from your primary to your peripheral vision. I think, > therefore, that to do this successfully, a sim must expand to widescreen or > somehow show peripheral limits, or it would look goofy because not much in your > forward 45 degrees or so of "clear vision" *should* be blurry.. > > Just a guess. > > Andrew > > > > Bruce Kennewell wrote: > > > Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway > > rushing towards you at 200kph? > > Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this > > sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of the > > speed at which a racing car travels. > > > > However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"? > > > > He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times) "Dad........why > > don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?" He then > > went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to him!) by > > pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves towards > > you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it gets the > > more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges of the > > road, the shrubbery, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur. > > > > I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is absolutely > > correct. > > > > But this doesn't happen in a sim. I fired up GPL tonight and, at speed down > > Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seen from > > the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were as clearly > > defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away. > > I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no blurring > > effect a all. > > > > It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developer could > > look into would be to recreate this real-world factor. > > > > Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated? > > I would be curious to read educated comment. > > > > -- > > Regards, > > Bruce Kennewell, > > Canberra, Australia. > > --------------------------- >

Yes...that's the sort of effect that mean. If you look straight ahead, what is in your peripheral vision DOES "whip" by and, in so doing, it becomes blurred. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Sinjin <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I noticed the same thing with an arcade game called Ferrari 355 that > uses 3 screens to wrap around your peripheral vision. The only > problem is that the two side screens (at 45deg angle to main) show the > scenery at the same rate as your forward view. If you look out your > side window while driving a real car trees and stuff are WHIPPING by. > > While it may be difficult to change the speed of objects in a game > that uses only one monitor I would have thought that a game with 3 > unique monitors could have fixed this obvious problem with the > perception of speed. > > > > On Wed, 14 Jun 2000 23:33:35 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway > >rushing towards you at 200kph? > >Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this > >sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of the > >speed at which a racing car travels. > > > >However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"? > > > >He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times) "Dad........why > >don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?" He then > >went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to him!) by > >pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves towards > >you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it gets the > >more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges of the > >road, the shrubbery, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur. > > > >I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is absolutely > >correct. > > > >But this doesn't happen in a sim. I fired up GPL tonight and, at speed down > >Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seen from > >the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were as clearly > >defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away. > >I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no blurring > >effect a all. > > > >It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developer could > >look into would be to recreate this real-world factor. > > > >Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated? > >I would be curious to read educated comment. > > > >-- > >Regards, > >Bruce Kennewell, > >Canberra, Australia. > >--------------------------- > > > > > > >

Okay. Thanks, Nos. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Nos <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Wed, 14 Jun 2000 23:33:35 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell" > <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > > >Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated? > >I would be curious to read educated comment. > > It's possible to do on a Voodoo5, but I doubt any developer would do > it for one video card. > -- > Nos

Thank you, John. I'll take you up on that invitation. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Jon Crooke <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Bruce, > > You're a man I could sit down with for a chat. Welcome at Hyper anytime. > > Regards > Jon Crooke > > _____________________________________________ > "THE WORLD'S BEST HOME RACING CAR SIMULATOR" > HYPER STIMULATOR INTERNATIONAL P/L > www.hyperstimulator.com > > In article <[email hidden]>, "Bruce Kennewell" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway > > rushing towards you at 200kph? > > Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this > > sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of the > > speed at which a racing car travels. > > > > However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"? > > > > He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times) "Dad........why > > don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?" He then > > went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to him!) by > > pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves towards > > you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it gets the > > more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges of the > > road, the shrubbery, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur. > > > > I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is absolutely > > correct. > > > > But this doesn't happen in a sim. I fired up GPL tonight and, at speed down > > Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seen from > > the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were as clearly > > defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away. > > I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no blurring > > effect a all. > > > > It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developer could > > look into would be to recreate this real-world factor. > > > > Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated? > > I would be curious to read educated comment. > > > > -- > > Regards, > > Bruce Kennewell, > > Canberra, Australia. > > --------------------------- > > > > > >

Thanks, Stephen. I must check out that NFS program. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Stephen Ferguson <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3947a2b3$[email hidden]... > Good points Bruce. What I was thinking the other day while motoring along > at a mere 150 on a two-lane motorway, rather like the tracks one finds in > NFS, was that the perception of speed isn't so far off in a lot of games. > Everyone seems to be expecting Wipeout2087 levels of visual stimulus, but at > speeds up to 200kph, unless you have a lot of scenery very close to you, > there isn't an overwhelming sense of speed. Unless you drive a Caterham. > > By the way, Rally Championship nails it on the head with a feeling of speed, > but only when the scenery closes in on the sides. I actually think it's all > fine, but motion blur at the edges would be a nice touch. Notice, > NFS:Porsche tries a clever trick with subtly blurred textures. Not exactly > what you have in mind, but I find it contributes to the feeling, and looks > good in replays. > > Stephen > > Bruce Kennewell <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway > > rushing towards you at 200kph? > > Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this > > sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of the > > speed at which a racing car travels. > > > > However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"? > > > > He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times) > "Dad........why > > don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?" He > then > > went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to him!) by > > pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves towards > > you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it gets the > > more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges of the > > road, the shrubbery, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur. > > > > I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is absolutely > > correct. > > > > But this doesn't happen in a sim. I fired up GPL tonight and, at speed > down > > Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seen from > > the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were as clearly > > defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away. > > I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no blurring > > effect a all. > > > > It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developer could > > look into would be to recreate this real-world factor. > > > > Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated? > > I would be curious to read educated comment. > > > > -- > > Regards, > > Bruce Kennewell, > > Canberra, Australia. > > --------------------------- > > > > > > > >

Sorry, if I missed something in this conversation, but I think that blurring could only enchance the visual reality, not the sense of speed. Yes, the game will look more realistic ,but have you forgot about determining the distance to the far objects ? When you are focusing on something it's not just your eye muscles are changing the form of eyeball, you also cross the eye vision vectors in some corner. You can perfectly focus with one eye closed ,but this way it is very hard to determine which object of two far from you is closer. And how do we feel the speed of an approaching object ? It is calculating itself in our brain depending on focus changes( a single eye is capable to do that ) AND the changes in the corner which vision lines virtually create. Now think that you are closing a corner. What you are focusing at is the apex ( for example ) Your eyes fallow....etc... and THIS way you can feel your own speed. Best regards. Warren Reicho "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway > rushing towards you at 200kph? > Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this > sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of the > speed at which a racing car travels. > > However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"? > > He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times)

"Dad........why > don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?" Hethen

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> went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to him!) by > pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves towards > you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it gets the > more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges of the > road, the shrubbery, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur. > > I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is absolutely > correct. > > But this doesn't happen in a sim. I fired up GPL tonight and, at speed

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> Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seen from > the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were as clearly > defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away. > I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no blurring > effect a all. > > It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developer could > look into would be to recreate this real-world factor. > > Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated? > I would be curious to read educated comment. > > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. > --------------------------- > > >

Now, if there were only an aggressive, forward-thinking monitor mfg. that would come out with a 17" hi-res monitor with a high-persistence phosphor tuned to enhance the motion-blur effect and was targeted specifically at the simulator market. We'd get an enhanced sensation of speed and no framerate hit! Regards, Brett C. Cammack That's Racing! Motorsports Pompano Beach, FL

Thanks, Dave. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > 3dfx is trying to tackle that problem with their Motion Blur T-buffer > technology. But from what I can tell it hasn't been too well received > yet. > But I can tell you the Playstation 2 can do a blurring effect and in a > recent tradeshow report I saw...the motion blur was referred to as the > MOST OVER_USED EFFECT. I would assume they looked on it like many do > the sunglare common now in many sims. > dave henrie > > Bruce Kennewell wrote: > > > > Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway > > rushing towards you at 200kph? > >

Thank you, Todd. It's nice to know that the idea is at least technically possible. It would be nice to see something done to try and provide the effect I'm talking about. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- JTW62074 <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Bruce, > That's a great idea. As Olav pointed out, when you look at a still movie > frame of high speed motion, there's a blur. When calculating a screen to be > drawn, there isn't one. I wrote a wireframe 3-D engine to test motion models > with and wondered how a spinning wheel might be blurred. I hadn't thought of > blurring the rest of the scenery (not that you'd want to see a blurred wire > frame scene anyway). One trick could be to sort of "connect" the last frame > lines and current frame lines/points/textures together somewhat, as the blur in > motion pictures comes from the movement of objects while the camera shutter is > still open. They're connected, aside from the period where the shutter is > closed. > > For computer modeling, suppose a wheel is spinning 30 times per second, and > your frame rate is 30 fps. Looking at the lugnuts and other markings, the > wheel will look like it's standing stilll. In a movie frame, each lugnut would > rotate a certain distance while the camera shutter was open and appear as a > solid curved line. At 30 rotations/second, that would be 360 degrees, easy to > calculate. I'm sure texture maps could be connected this way too. > Definately possible, Bruce. > > Todd Wasson > >

HA! I wish, Tim :-) -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Tim Vanhee <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:KkR15.217031$[email hidden]... > Bruce, did you ever dream of a hyperstim? Well this is your chance! :) > > Jon Crooke <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws > [email hidden]... > > Bruce, > > > > You're a man I could sit down with for a chat. Welcome at Hyper anytime. > > > > Regards > > Jon Crooke > > > > _____________________________________________ > > "THE WORLD'S BEST HOME RACING CAR SIMULATOR" > > HYPER STIMULATOR INTERNATIONAL P/L > > www.hyperstimulator.com > > > > In article <[email hidden]>, "Bruce Kennewell" > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > > Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway > > > rushing towards you at 200kph? > > > Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this > > > sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of > the > > > speed at which a racing car travels. > > > > > > However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"? > > > > > > He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times) > "Dad........why > > > don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?" He > then > > > went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to him!) by > > > pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves > towards > > > you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it gets > the > > > more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges of the > > > road, the shrubbery, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur. > > > > > > I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is absolutely > > > correct. > > > > > > But this doesn't happen in a sim. I fired up GPL tonight and, at speed > down > > > Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seen > from > > > the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were as > clearly > > > defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away. > > > I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no blurring > > > effect a all. > > > > > > It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developer > could > > > look into would be to recreate this real-world factor. > > > > > > Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated? > > > I would be curious to read educated comment. > > > > > > -- > > > Regards, > > > Bruce Kennewell, > > > Canberra, Australia. > > > --------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > >

Yes, John...that's along the lines of what I'm picturing, although (I assume that they're from NFS) the shots are *too* blurry...or, more accurately, the blur comes in too far from the edges. (Maybe I should look at it in-game rather than judge via a single screen-shot.) But what you've stated is certainly akin to my perception of how the sense of speed could be conveyed, yes. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8i8pea$ekb$[email hidden]... > You mean something like this: > > http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/sims/blur1.jpg > > Or this: > > http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/sims/blur2.jpg > > Excellent idea! I'd love to see something like this implemented. > Seems to me like if they could do it in the software, rather than the > hardware, there would be less actual screen to render -- by rendering > the center "viewing area" only, and then "streaking" that to the > endges, there would be less to actually render, which seems like it > would increase frame rates dramatically. Alternately, rather than > using simple streaking, you could always render with less detail at the > periphery, and then streak or blur that. Either way, it sounds like a > frame rate increase could be obtainable. > > Ideally, at slow speeds, the ENTIRE screen would be rendered, with NO > blurring effect. Then, as the speed increased, less and less of the > screen would be actually rendered, and more blurring would occur > towards the center of your vision at higher speeds. Of course, the > dashboard overlays for in-cockpit views and the gauges and such would > still have to be rendered with no blur, but they're overlays anyway, so > that shouldn't be too much of a problem. > > Wonder if anybody's working on this yet? Like I said, seems like it > could be done is software, without the need for a hardware dependency. > Hardware implementation would unload the CPU, but it shouldn't be > required to implement the effect, I wouldn't think. > > -- JB > > In article <[email hidden]>, > "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway > > rushing towards you at 200kph? > > Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this > > sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of > the > > speed at which a racing car travels. > > > > However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"? > > > > He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times) > "Dad........why > > don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?" > He then > > went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to him!) > by > > pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves > towards > > you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it > gets the > > more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges of > the > > road, the shrubbery, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur. > > > > I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is absolutely > > correct. > > > > But this doesn't happen in a sim. I fired up GPL tonight and, at > speed down > > Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seen > from > > the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were as > clearly > > defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away. > > I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no > blurring > > effect a all. > > > > It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developer > could > > look into would be to recreate this real-world factor. > > > > Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated? > > I would be curious to read educated comment. > > > > -- > > Regards, > > Bruce Kennewell, > > Canberra, Australia. > > --------------------------- > > > > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.

Now that's a neat bit of information! I wonder how these new generation flat, non-picture tube screens would go?! -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- GD <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > > > >Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway > >rushing towards you at 200kph? > >Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this > >sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of the > >speed at which a racing car travels. > > > >However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"? > > > > When I first got my hands on GP2, I only had a notebook PC > with a [colour] LCD screen. > I'm not sure what the technology was for the screen, but its > update/refresh rate wasnt the fastest in the world. > What this meant for playing the game is that whn one image was > being displayed, the pixels for the previous screen were still > showing slightly (or maybe it took a few microseconds for each > pixel to change state or whatever). > > Anyway, the point is that the game blurred, and my word did > it look like I was driving fast! > Since the images displayed near the edge of the screen were > more "different" for each frame than the images near the > centre of the screen, the sides were more blurred than the > front. > > So guys... go out and see if you can get yourself a monitor > of some kind that does this. Its ace! > > > > cheers... > >

On Wed 14 Jun 2000 02:42:03pm, Olav K. Malmin wrote: <snip> >Think of a cinematic >movie. It's 24 frames per second<snip> 25 fps in the UK. I've always wondered if that makes any significant difference to the way in which films are perceived. A UK film shown in the US would seem slightly slow, and vice versa. -- David. "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really." (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

[email hidden] (David Buttery) writes:

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> On Wed 14 Jun 2000 02:42:03pm, Olav K. Malmin wrote: > > <snip> > >Think of a cinematic > >movie. It's 24 frames per second > <snip> > > 25 fps in the UK. I've always wondered if that makes any significant > difference to the way in which films are perceived. A UK film shown in > the US would seem slightly slow, and vice versa.

You are wrong and right. A 35 mm movie for cinemas is 24 fps. No more, no less, no matter where. But your tv is 25 fps. But since it's interlaced it's 50, but the same picture is shown twice. In the US, they have 30. When a movie is made for US television (NTSC) they manage to play it at the correct speed. But movies made for European television (PAL) they are played back 4 % too fast. -- Olav K. Malmin remove spam when replying

"* Leong" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> Olav K. Malmin <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > btw, the new 3DFX T-buffer is supporting cinematic motion-blur, but > > the software has to support it. When new sims will support this > > feature, we're talking business. > > > > > > -- > > Olav K. Malmin > > remove spam when replying > > > hey cinematic motion blur is coming ?? > WOW > > hope it works at 32bit color too ( a pun for 3DFX ) > > anything from 3DFX , take it with a spadeful of salt > but lets hope someone else will take it up and really > make it work.......

Yeah, it's supposed to be implemented in the T-buffer of the new generation chip from 3DFX. But I think it has to be implemented in the software, so it doesn't work out of the box like FSAA. -- Olav K. Malmin remove spam when replying

Okay...I understand. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8ialq9$pht$[email hidden]... > Those shots are a bit exaggerated -- I would say you'd be doing in the > neighborhood of 200+ mph to get that kind of blur, but I wanted to make > sure it was a noticeable blur to get the idea across. > > -- JB > > In article <[email hidden]>, > "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > Yes, John...that's along the lines of what I'm picturing, although (I > assume > > that they're from NFS) the shots are *too* blurry...or, more > accurately, the > > blur comes in too far from the edges. (Maybe I should look at it in- > game > > rather than judge via a single screen-shot.) > > > > But what you've stated is certainly akin to my perception of how the > sense > > of speed could be conveyed, yes. > > > > -- > > Regards, > > Bruce Kennewell, > > Canberra, Australia. > > --------------------------- > > > > <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:8i8pea$ekb$[email hidden]... > > > You mean something like this: > > > > > > http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/sims/blur1.jpg > > > > > > Or this: > > > > > > http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/sims/blur2.jpg > > > > > > Excellent idea! I'd love to see something like this implemented. > > > Seems to me like if they could do it in the software, rather than > the > > > hardware, there would be less actual screen to render -- by > rendering > > > the center "viewing area" only, and then "streaking" that to the > > > endges, there would be less to actually render, which seems like it > > > would increase frame rates dramatically. Alternately, rather than > > > using simple streaking, you could always render with less detail at > the > > > periphery, and then streak or blur that. Either way, it sounds > like a > > > frame rate increase could be obtainable. > > > > > > Ideally, at slow speeds, the ENTIRE screen would be rendered, with > NO > > > blurring effect. Then, as the speed increased, less and less of the > > > screen would be actually rendered, and more blurring would occur > > > towards the center of your vision at higher speeds. Of course, the > > > dashboard overlays for in-cockpit views and the gauges and such > would > > > still have to be rendered with no blur, but they're overlays > anyway, so > > > that shouldn't be too much of a problem. > > > > > > Wonder if anybody's working on this yet? Like I said, seems like it > > > could be done is software, without the need for a hardware > dependency. > > > Hardware implementation would unload the CPU, but it shouldn't be > > > required to implement the effect, I wouldn't think. > > > > > > -- JB > > > > > > In article <[email hidden]>, > > > "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a > roadway > > > > rushing towards you at 200kph? > > > > Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray > this > > > > sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective > sense of > > > the > > > > speed at which a racing car travels. > > > > > > > > However, have you ever considered what my son refers to > as "blurring"? > > > > > > > > He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times) > > > "Dad........why > > > > don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?" > > > He then > > > > went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to > him!) > > > by > > > > pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves > > > towards > > > > you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it > > > gets the > > > > more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges > of > > > the > > > > road, the shrubbery, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur. > > > > > > > > I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is > absolutely > > > > correct. > > > > > > > > But this doesn't happen in a sim. I fired up GPL tonight and, at > > > speed down > > > > Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as > seen > > > from > > > > the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were as > > > clearly > > > > defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre > away. > > > > I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no > > > blurring > > > > effect a all. > > > > > > > > It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a > developer > > > could > > > > look into would be to recreate this real-world factor. > > > > > > > > Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated? > > > > I would be curious to read educated comment. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Regards, > > > > Bruce Kennewell, > > > > Canberra, Australia. > > > > --------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > > Before you buy. > > > > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.

On Fri 16 Jun 2000 09:15:18am, Olav K. Malmin wrote: <snipped my post> >You are wrong and right. A 35 mm movie for cinemas is 24 fps. No >more, no less, no matter where. > >But your tv is 25 fps. But since it's interlaced it's 50, but the >same picture is shown twice. In the US, they have 30. When a movie >is made for US television (NTSC) "Never Twice the Same Color[sic]" >they manage to play it at the >correct speed. But movies made for European television (PAL) they >are played back 4 % too fast. Ah. Thanks for putting me straight. So I had the details wrong, bu the basic idea right. Which means my thought - maybe US and UK audiences watching the same TV movie would have a slightly different perception of how well paced it was. -- David. "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really." (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)