Re: GPL - Simple turning

In article <8j24vv$tij$[email hidden]>, "GraDee" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>The one I used for the eagle is definitely quick. > >But All I can put the Lotus and Ferrari times down to is a poor set-up, yet >they claim to be from people who can do 1.18's, etc.... >I didn't notice the great amount of understerr until I tried the eagle >set-ups. > >So 2 questions to finish this off? >Are some people bluffing and putting out bad set-ups. >And secondly does anyone know where to pick up some genuinely good set-ups >as the ones I have don' seem to be up to much.

Some settings suit diferent peoples' driving styles. I've had settings for Silverstone that I'm 6 seconds slower than the 'author'. Same with Zandvoort. I have a 3:12 setting for Spa that I can't get lower than 3:24 with. I really don't think people are 'bluffing' with their setups, but I'll be damned if I can figure out HOW they do it... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +85.99 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Hi guys, I'm having this really weird problem that I just simply cannot get under a 1.24 at Kylami (same problems with other tracks but I'll use Kylami as an example). I've been driving the Ferrari and occasionally the Lotus and for the past year or more no improvement from 1.24. Just for fun I gave the eagle a lap around Kyalami yesterday and immediately took the time down to 1.22. Judging by how I drove I fell I' could knock more time off that if I worked at it. Back to the Ferrari and Lotus, 1.26, 1.25, 1.24, .1.24.... same as usual. One thing I noticed greatly as the turning power of the Eagle. It really got stuck into the first corner and I a able to take other corners much faster. Then I thought, but aren't the Lotus and Ferrari capable of quicker lap? Could it be the set-ups? I don't have many set-ups installed but unlike other sims I find it difficult to tune the cars myself in GPL. But I wonder, are some of them real? The one I used for the eagle is definitely quick. But All I can put the Lotus and Ferrari times down to is a poor set-up, yet they claim to be from people who can do 1.18's, etc.... I didn't notice the great amount of understerr until I tried the eagle set-ups. So 2 questions to finish this off? Are some people bluffing and putting out bad set-ups. And secondly does anyone know where to pick up some genuinely good set-ups as the ones I have don' seem to be up to much.

EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <8j24vv$tij$[email hidden]>, "GraDee" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >The one I used for the eagle is definitely quick. > > > >But All I can put the Lotus and Ferrari times down to is a poor set-up,yet

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> >they claim to be from people who can do 1.18's, etc.... > >I didn't notice the great amount of understerr until I tried the eagle > >set-ups. > > > >So 2 questions to finish this off? > >Are some people bluffing and putting out bad set-ups. > >And secondly does anyone know where to pick up some genuinely good

set-ups > >as the ones I have don' seem to be up to much. > > Some settings suit diferent peoples' driving styles. I've had settingsfor > Silverstone that I'm 6 seconds slower than the 'author'. Same withZandvoort. > I have a 3:12 setting for Spa that I can't get lower than 3:24 with. Ireally > don't think people are 'bluffing' with their setups, but I'll be damned ifI > can figure out HOW they do it... > > Eldred Well, the Eagle set-up I used rocked! I never felt GPL handle so good. My problem is basically that if a set-up does not sit your style is usually for the reason that it tends to oversteer as a lot of the faster drivers like. However, these 2 set-ups I was using suffered from major understeer, I don't know how a driving style can compensate for this. Its abnormal.

Simple cure. Take a click out of the front roll bar. Repeat as neccessary. Each click will reduce understeer. An understeering car can also be induced to oversteer by "blipping" the throttle as you turn in, and by using power as you exit.

In article <pI855.5992$[email hidden]>, "Kevin Gavitt" <[email hidden]> writes: >Simple cure. Take a click out of the front roll bar. Repeat as neccessary. >Each click will reduce understeer. > Thank you. Even *I* can understand this one...<g> But, I have another question. How can you tell if the understeering is the fault of the setup, or caused because you enter a turn too fast? Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +77.11 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP wrote:

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> > In article <pI855.5992$[email hidden]>, "Kevin Gavitt" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Simple cure. Take a click out of the front roll bar. Repeat as neccessary. > >Each click will reduce understeer. > > > > Thank you. Even *I* can understand this one...<g> But, I have another > question. How can you tell if the understeering is the fault of the setup, or > caused because you enter a turn too fast? >

Easy. If others can attain such speed thru the corner, it's do-able. There can only be one of 2 problems then, line or setup. Or a combination thereof. -- Chuck Kandler GPL F1 Handicap of +210.00 as of 6/15 GPL F3 Handicap of +438.42 as of 6/21 K&S Racing http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195 Registered Linux User #180746 http://counter.li.org

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > >Easy. If others can attain such speed thru the corner, it's do-able. > >There can only be one of 2 problems then, line or setup. Or a > >combination thereof. > > But I've had times where using the exact same setup, on the same > line(seemingly), I couldn't match the speed. The difference might be any number of things. Are you turning in soon enough? Too soon? Maybe you just weigh more than Gregor :-). Or maybe the tires weren't up to temp yet? Are you trailbraking the same on entry? Gas-on and balancing at the same points? I keep hoping my infinite permutations of these combine one day into the perfect lap, and then I'll post new PB's. Michael.

In article <[email hidden]>, Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> writes:

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>> But I've had times where using the exact same setup, on the same >> line(seemingly), I couldn't match the speed. >> > > >Hold on here. Who the hell am I to counsel *you* on driving??? Look at >our handicap differences! <g> >

LOL! So, I'd at least like to be on the same LAP with the aliens...<g> Currently, I'm light years away... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +70.45 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <8j24vv$tij$[email hidden]>, GraDee <gradee@es atclear.nospam.ie> writes <snip>

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> >But All I can put the Lotus and Ferrari times down to is a poor set-up, yet >they claim to be from people who can do 1.18's, etc.... >I didn't notice the great amount of understerr until I tried the eagle >set-ups. > >So 2 questions to finish this off? >Are some people bluffing and putting out bad set-ups. >And secondly does anyone know where to pick up some genuinely good >set-ups >as the ones I have don' seem to be up to much. > >

I can certainly vouch for the Kyalami Lotus setups. Without them I would still be doing 1:20 laps with my own setups. :) -- Peter Ives

In article <[email hidden]>, Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> writes:

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>> >Simple cure. Take a click out of the front roll bar. Repeat as neccessary. >> >Each click will reduce understeer. >> > >> >> Thank you. Even *I* can understand this one...<g> But, I have another >> question. How can you tell if the understeering is the fault of the setup, >or >> caused because you enter a turn too fast? >> > > >Easy. If others can attain such speed thru the corner, it's do-able. >There can only be one of 2 problems then, line or setup. Or a >combination thereof. > >

But I've had times where using the exact same setup, on the same line(seemingly), I couldn't match the speed. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +70.45 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP wrote:

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> > In article <[email hidden]>, Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> > writes: > > >> >Simple cure. Take a click out of the front roll bar. Repeat as neccessary. > >> >Each click will reduce understeer. > >> > > >> > >> Thank you. Even *I* can understand this one...<g> But, I have another > >> question. How can you tell if the understeering is the fault of the setup, > >or > >> caused because you enter a turn too fast? > >> > > > > > >Easy. If others can attain such speed thru the corner, it's do-able. > >There can only be one of 2 problems then, line or setup. Or a > >combination thereof. > > > > > > But I've had times where using the exact same setup, on the same > line(seemingly), I couldn't match the speed. >

Difference in technique then? At least you know it can be done, if others have done it. Also there can be differences machine to machine as well. Tweaking the setup to suit should help. -- Chuck Kandler GPL F1 Handicap of +210.00 as of 6/15 GPL F3 Handicap of +438.42 as of 6/21 K&S Racing http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195 Registered Linux User #180746 http://counter.li.org

EldredP wrote:

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> > In article <[email hidden]>, Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> > writes: > > >> >Simple cure. Take a click out of the front roll bar. Repeat as neccessary. > >> >Each click will reduce understeer. > >> > > >> > >> Thank you. Even *I* can understand this one...<g> But, I have another > >> question. How can you tell if the understeering is the fault of the setup, > >or > >> caused because you enter a turn too fast? > >> > > > > > >Easy. If others can attain such speed thru the corner, it's do-able. > >There can only be one of 2 problems then, line or setup. Or a > >combination thereof. > > > > > > But I've had times where using the exact same setup, on the same > line(seemingly), I couldn't match the speed. >

Hold on here. Who the hell am I to counsel *you* on driving??? Look at our handicap differences! <g> -- Chuck Kandler GPL F1 Handicap of +210.00 as of 6/15 GPL F3 Handicap of +438.42 as of 6/21 K&S Racing http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195 Registered Linux User #180746 http://counter.li.org

writes: But I've had times where using the exact same setup, on the same line(seemingly), I couldn't match the speed. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +70.45 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, EldredP <[email hidden]> writes <snip>

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>Who knows? I've had times where I've run 50 laps at once. The laps are all >in >the same area timewise, unless I try to push somewhere. Then I crash. For >example, I ran about 270 laps at Watkins a few months ago. I lowered my >PB by >.44 seconds - from 1:07.61 to 1:07.17. Obviously, I'm not doing the right >things, but I'll be damned if I can figure it out. I've hit the same wall at >all the other tracks, too. Except the Ring - I still haven't had a clean lap >at speed. With the others, I don't know what else to do. I may just have to >accept that I can't get any better, and be content with being a rolling chicane >on VROC... > >Eldred

I think we all reach that point eventually, where for some reason or another, although we know that there is a better lap in there somewhere, it just won't come out despite our best efforts. About a month ago I did a 1:25.75 at Monaco and then this week I went out and improved on it by a miserly .06 down to 1:25.69. However, when I compared the 2 laps in replay analyser I discovered that the original 1:25.75 was over half a second up going into tabac and that I lost all that time in the last 2 corners to end up with the 1:25.75. Despite this knowledge though, and looking at that replay over and over, I've have been unable to come close to matching it over the first 3/4 of the lap and I've must have done another 150 laps at Monaco since this realisation. In other words, it's not the setup (that's the same), it is my driving that is preventing me from putting that first 3/4 type lap together like before and then getting the last 2 bends like in the 2nd hotlap and ending up with a low 1:25. Frustration doesn't even come close. :( -- Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) No person's opinions can be said to be more correct than another's, because each is the sole judge of his or her own experience.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Michael Young" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> >Easy. If others can attain such speed thru the corner, it's do-able. >> >There can only be one of 2 problems then, line or setup. Or a >> >combination thereof. >> >> But I've had times where using the exact same setup, on the same >> line(seemingly), I couldn't match the speed. > >The difference might be any number of things. Are you turning in soon >enough? Too soon? Maybe you just weigh more than Gregor :-). Or maybe the >tires weren't up to temp yet? Are you trailbraking the same on entry? Gas-on >and balancing at the same points? I keep hoping my infinite permutations of >these combine one day into the perfect lap, and then I'll post new PB's. > >Michael. >

Who knows? I've had times where I've run 50 laps at once. The laps are all in the same area timewise, unless I try to push somewhere. Then I crash. For example, I ran about 270 laps at Watkins a few months ago. I lowered my PB by .44 seconds - from 1:07.61 to 1:07.17. Obviously, I'm not doing the right things, but I'll be damned if I can figure it out. I've hit the same wall at all the other tracks, too. Except the Ring - I still haven't had a clean lap at speed. With the others, I don't know what else to do. I may just have to accept that I can't get any better, and be content with being a rolling chicane on VROC... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +70.45 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Ives <[email hidden]> writes:

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>In article <8j24vv$tij$[email hidden]>, GraDee <gradee@es >atclear.nospam.ie> writes > ><snip> >> >>But All I can put the Lotus and Ferrari times down to is a poor set-up, yet >>they claim to be from people who can do 1.18's, etc.... >>I didn't notice the great amount of understerr until I tried the eagle >>set-ups. >> >>So 2 questions to finish this off? >>Are some people bluffing and putting out bad set-ups. >>And secondly does anyone know where to pick up some genuinely good >>set-ups >>as the ones I have don' seem to be up to much. >> >> > >I can certainly vouch for the Kyalami Lotus setups. Without them I >would still be doing 1:20 laps with my own setups. :) >-- >Peter Ives >

Peter, I'd even setlle for *your* setups. I'm still at 1:23 at Kyalami... :( Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +70.45 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

where do you get these setups? I'm still in 1.34s/wl Peter Ives <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <8j24vv$tij$[email hidden]>, GraDee <gradee@es > atclear.nospam.ie> writes > > <snip> > > > >But All I can put the Lotus and Ferrari times down to is a poor set-up,yet

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> >they claim to be from people who can do 1.18's, etc.... > >I didn't notice the great amount of understerr until I tried the eagle > >set-ups. > > > >So 2 questions to finish this off? > >Are some people bluffing and putting out bad set-ups. > >And secondly does anyone know where to pick up some genuinely good > >set-ups > >as the ones I have don' seem to be up to much. > > > > > > I can certainly vouch for the Kyalami Lotus setups. Without them I > would still be doing 1:20 laps with my own setups. :) > -- > Peter Ives

GraDee wrote:

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> > Hi guys, > I'm having this really weird problem that I just simply cannot get under a > 1.24 at Kylami (same problems with other tracks but I'll use Kylami as an > example). > I've been driving the Ferrari and occasionally the Lotus and for the past > year or more no improvement from 1.24. >

The difference is probably in the differential lock setup. Eagle is a heavier car so the 30 default coast ramp angle does not have such a strong effect I think. My advice is to forget about roll bars when initially setting up your car. Increase the coast side of the ramp angle. Me, I use 60/60 with 1 clutch on my Ferrari, which gives me great traction on almost all circuits, and excellent turn in capability. Furthermore, the car is really throttle steerable. You will need to take away some of the rear roll bar with such settings, though (I use about 1/2-3/4 of the front roll bar value on the rear, depending on the track). Really, play with the differential lock, in my experience it is THE setup option that determines the handling. -Gregor

Michael Young wrote: > The difference might be any number of things. Are you turning in soon > enough? Too soon? Maybe you just weigh more than Gregor :-). Or maybe the > tires weren't up to temp yet? Are you trailbraking the same on entry? Gas-on > and balancing at the same points? I keep hoping my infinite permutations of > these combine one day into the perfect lap, and then I'll post new PB's. Yeah, I don't know why but I always lump Line and Technique together in my mind. I guess because differing lines require different techniques in order to work. -- Chuck Kandler GPL F1 Handicap of +210.00 as of 6/15 GPL F3 Handicap of +438.42 as of 6/21 K&S Racing http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195 Registered Linux User #180746 http://counter.li.org

EldredP wrote:

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> > Who knows? I've had times where I've run 50 laps at once. The laps are all in > the same area timewise, unless I try to push somewhere. Then I crash. For > example, I ran about 270 laps at Watkins a few months ago. I lowered my PB by > .44 seconds - from 1:07.61 to 1:07.17. Obviously, I'm not doing the right > things, but I'll be damned if I can figure it out. I've hit the same wall at > all the other tracks, too. Except the Ring - I still haven't had a clean lap > at speed. With the others, I don't know what else to do. I may just have to > accept that I can't get any better, and be content with being a rolling chicane > on VROC... > > Eldred > -- > Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPL hcp. +70.45 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

This sounds like a setup flaw. Mind you, I am not much faster, but I do know how to set up my car so that it suits me. See another post of mine in this thread regarding the setups. On some circuits like Kyalami the high coast ramp angle value is of great importance, while in Monza the traction is what is needed. I used to run a 60/60 setup with 3 clutches before, but the car was too twitchy when coming out of the corners. I decreased the number of clutches to 1, and got about 2 tenths of a second in Monza immediately, as the traction out of the second Lesmo was improved dramatically. This did not happen at the start of my GPL career, but only a couple of months ago. -Gregor

Lee Wee Leong wrote: > > where do you get these setups? I'm still in 1.34s/wl > The hotshoe setups? Try http://www.parc-ferme.de/