Re: To V5 and GPL users

You really need to see FSAA in action to appreciate it. Even then, it's not until you go back and try to play without it that you realize how cool it is. Sure it gets rid of the jaggies, but you can do that somewhat by driving at high resolutions. But it also gets rid of the pixel popping and other artifacts of aliasing that you really can't capture on a screen shot. "� Karsten Borchers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > I'm very interested in seeing what the Voodoo 5 5500 is capable ofwith FSAA > in GPL.

I'm very interested in seeing what the Voodoo 5 5500 is capable of with FSAA in GPL. So what I would love is if some friendly soul could grap some ingame shots with 2xfsaa, 4xfsaa and without fsaa in 1024x768 and send them to me in BMP format (zipped ofcourse) Or post them in some binary newsgroup (then please state wich one :) Thanks in advance :) Send them here : [email hidden] -- � Karsten Borchers Signing off...... Gamers Paradise - It's like heroin ! http://www.gamepage.dk/gamers-paradise/ High Rev'ers Denmark - A Danish online racing team http://whocares.homepage.dk

cool - thanks :) Borchers "Daniel Lichtenberger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sat, 24 Jun 2000 22:04:58 +0200, "� Karsten Borchers" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I'm very interested in seeing what the Voodoo 5 5500 is capable of withFSAA > >in GPL. > >So what I would love is if some friendly soul could grap some ingameshots > >with 2xfsaa, 4xfsaa and without fsaa in 1024x768 and send them to me inBMP

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> >format (zipped ofcourse) > > Take a look at the FSAA shots at > http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/hardware/features/voodoo5/index4.shtml. > > Daniel > > -- > ICQ UIN: 30333508 > http://www.topofgames.de || http://danielshome.cjb.net

I should point out that in-game it actually looks better than those screenshots. The reason is that the FSAA filtering is done after reading from the framebuffer. The calculations are done with greater than 16-bit precision and sent to the DAC without truncation. The Mach-banding artifacts you see in the screenshots at simhq are GREATLY reduced. The screenshots were made with pre-release drivers. The released version allows you to take shots at full quality. I'm pretty sure they tell you how to do this over at www.3dfxgamers.com Best Wishes, scott "Daniel Lichtenberger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sat, 24 Jun 2000 22:04:58 +0200, "� Karsten Borchers" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I'm very interested in seeing what the Voodoo 5 5500 is capable of withFSAA > >in GPL. > >So what I would love is if some friendly soul could grap some ingameshots > >with 2xfsaa, 4xfsaa and without fsaa in 1024x768 and send them to me inBMP

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> >format (zipped ofcourse) > > Take a look at the FSAA shots at > http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/hardware/features/voodoo5/index4.shtml. > > Daniel > > -- > ICQ UIN: 30333508 > http://www.topofgames.de || http://danielshome.cjb.net

On Sat, 24 Jun 2000 22:04:58 +0200, "� Karsten Borchers" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I'm very interested in seeing what the Voodoo 5 5500 is capable of with FSAA >in GPL. >So what I would love is if some friendly soul could grap some ingame shots >with 2xfsaa, 4xfsaa and without fsaa in 1024x768 and send them to me in BMP >format (zipped ofcourse) Take a look at the FSAA shots at http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/hardware/features/voodoo5/index4.shtml. Daniel -- ICQ UIN: 30333508 http://www.topofgames.de || http://danielshome.cjb.net

"Jay J" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:sMo55.415$[email hidden]... > This is all well and good, but..... What kind of frame rate hit does ittake > with FSAA turned on ????? > > It's my understanding that you take such a FPS hit that it basicallynegates > the use of 2x or 4x FSAA on the V5 5500, and I've heard the GeForce 2 GTS > isn't even capable of doing real FSAA so is this just a moot point? > > Or am I wrong? Because I would really like to hear some testomonials fromV5 > 5500 users as I'm considering buying one for my new system. > > Thanks > Jay J > >You're wrong on this one, at least for the Geforce and GPL. I have a P3-800/Geforce 256, and with the 5.30 drivers and FSAA forced to max, have a negligible frame rate hit on GPL. Max detail, all cars, 1600x res--rates drop briefly to high 20s-low 30s at the start of a race, sitting at the back of the field with everything displayed at every track except Monaco where the drop is to the mid-20s. Very quickly, rates hit max and stay there. I don't know why Nvidia's FSAA has so little affect on GPL's frame rates--yes I'm sure it's enabled. Just about everything else I've tried FSAA with produces no discernible gameplay benefit for me when compared with normal high resolution, or frame rates so low as to make using it worthless, except for old sims like Janes F15. Jerry Morelock

No one outside of Papy knows what the demands of N4 will be, or even when it will ship. But if you think it is going to require hardware T&L support to run well on my PIII @933 then Papy better just scrap that project right now. <G> I buy hardware to run my software, and the software I have runs great on the V5. I don't buy hardware that will one day in the future quite possibly run a game, which I might just happen to like, much better than the card that runs the software I like right now, well. When I get a piece of software on my hard drive which won't run well on my hardware, and I really like the software, then I will invest in newer hardware. Buying hardware now to run tomorrow's software is a waste, because if you wait until you have the software, the price of the hardware will have dropped considerably - or something better will be available for the same price. <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >Well, the ONLY reason to buy a V5 is for FSAA, so if that were true > >I'd have returned the card for a refund. FSAA is a joke right nowon > >the Nvidia cards, especially in D3D, but on the V5's it isfantastic. > > Depends on the game. On the Gefroce2 it works quite well in somegames > (EAW, SDOE, F4, Combat Mission), but on eithers it is a completescrew > up. But, I did not buy the Geforce2 for FSAA anyway, so to me any > games that run well with FSAA on it are just a bonus. What has me > intrigued are the improved frame rates using T&L in games like N4, > B17-2, and Battle of Britain. All of these games will require hefty > machines to run well so don't expect to be using any FSAA on those > games with a V5 5500 unless you are tolerant of lower frame rates.

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> > I don't think FSAA was enabled, all the reviews I've seen state that > nVidia drivers simply disable FSAA in 1600x1200 because the card runs > out of memory, so there can't be a performance drop. > > Daniel > > -- > ICQ UIN: 30333508 > http://www.topofgames.de || http://danielshome.cjb.net

That makes sense. I could tell from the slightly blurred menu screens that FSAA was working, but it wasn't making sense that there was no frames dropoff. I've seen other high res (not 1600x) stuff where the FSAA wasn't that visually apparent and thought that might be what was happening here. Of course, in F12K it's very apparent--just wish it was usable. Overall, right now I think the feature is mostly fluff, anyway. But by the end of the year . . . and with the semi-annual video upgrade . . . Jerry Morelock

"Jay J" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:sMo55.415 > This is all well and good, but..... What kind of frame rate hit doesit take > with FSAA turned on ????? It does the 36 fps that GPL allows quite easiliy, even with 4X FSAA, as long as you run at 800x600. With 2X FSAA you can go up to 1280x1024 with no drop off. > It's my understanding that you take such a FPS hit that it basicallynegates > the use of 2x or 4x FSAA on the V5 5500, and I've heard the GeForce2 GTS > isn't even capable of doing real FSAA so is this just a moot point? Well, the ONLY reason to buy a V5 is for FSAA, so if that were true I'd have returned the card for a refund. FSAA is a joke right now on the Nvidia cards, especially in D3D, but on the V5's it is fantastic. FSAA will drop your frame rates in Quaker games down from 100 to 75(2X) or 50 (4X), which for some reason is unacceptable to many that play those games, but for the games I play (mainly racing) the frame rate is either locked or I can't tell the difference after 40 fps anyway.

This is all well and good, but..... What kind of frame rate hit does it take with FSAA turned on ????? It's my understanding that you take such a FPS hit that it basically negates the use of 2x or 4x FSAA on the V5 5500, and I've heard the GeForce 2 GTS isn't even capable of doing real FSAA so is this just a moot point? Or am I wrong? Because I would really like to hear some testomonials from V5 5500 users as I'm considering buying one for my new system. Thanks Jay J

On Sun, 25 Jun 2000 10:30:20 -0500, "Tracey A Miller" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Well, the ONLY reason to buy a V5 is for FSAA, so if that were true >I'd have returned the card for a refund. FSAA is a joke right now on >the Nvidia cards, especially in D3D, but on the V5's it is fantastic. Depends on the game. On the Gefroce2 it works quite well in some games (EAW, SDOE, F4, Combat Mission), but on eithers it is a complete screw up. But, I did not buy the Geforce2 for FSAA anyway, so to me any games that run well with FSAA on it are just a bonus. What has me intrigued are the improved frame rates using T&L in games like N4, B17-2, and Battle of Britain. All of these games will require hefty machines to run well so don't expect to be using any FSAA on those games with a V5 5500 unless you are tolerant of lower frame rates. -- Nos

On Sun, 25 Jun 2000 12:54:46 -0400, "chainbreaker" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>You're wrong on this one, at least for the Geforce and GPL. I have a >P3-800/Geforce 256, and with the 5.30 drivers and FSAA forced to max, have a >negligible frame rate hit on GPL. Max detail, all cars, 1600x res--rates >drop briefly to high 20s-low 30s at the start of a race, sitting at the back >of the field with everything displayed at every track except Monaco where >the drop is to the mid-20s. Very quickly, rates hit max and stay there. I >don't know why Nvidia's FSAA has so little affect on GPL's frame rates--yes >I'm sure it's enabled.

I don't think FSAA was enabled, all the reviews I've seen state that nVidia drivers simply disable FSAA in 1600x1200 because the card runs out of memory, so there can't be a performance drop. Daniel -- ICQ UIN: 30333508 http://www.topofgames.de || http://danielshome.cjb.net

On Sun, 25 Jun 2000 13:01:55 -0500, "Tracey A Miller" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >No one outside of Papy knows what the demands of N4 will be, or even >when it will ship. But if you think it is going to require hardware >T&L support to run well on my PIII @933 then Papy better just scrap >that project right now. <G> Hehe..no, I'm not saying that. Just saying it will run better on my PIII@900 with my Geforce2 becaue N4 will take advantage of the T&L GPU on that card. ;-) >I buy hardware to run my software, and the software I have runs great >on the V5. I don't buy hardware that will one day in the future quite >possibly run a game, which I might just happen to like, much better >than the card that runs the software I like right now, well. I've been buying 3DFX since day one. I needed a change. >When I get a piece of software on my hard drive which won't run well >on my hardware, and I really like the software, then I will invest in >newer hardware. Buying hardware now to run tomorrow's software is a >waste, because if you wait until you have the software, the price of >the hardware will have dropped considerably - or something better will >be available for the same price. True, but I have many games that need all the juice they can get and FSAA just negates that. I want a card that does FSAA, T&L and gives a better frame rate than a Voodoo3. I don't need FSAA at this point in time. I need speed baby. :-) -- Nos

WOW! Thanks for the info Dude.... I've been kicking around the notion of getting a V5 5500 and all the testimonials have helped sway my decision. The system I'm planning on buying will be at least a 866 MHz with 128 to 256 RAM, so I'm chopping at the bit to run GPL with those kinds of FPS and 4x FSAA!!! Jay J "Someotherdude" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > This is on a V5 5500 with a PIII -700 @ 784 > > GPL runs better at 800x600 with 4x FSAA and looks far better, much morenatural > and realistic than 1600x1200. The difference is like looking at a videotape vs > a computer game. At 800x600 4x FSAA, I get 33-36fps at the back of thegrid > with a full field at SPA. Once moving, it's 36 fps all the way. > > Another option is 1280x1024 with 2x FSAA, at similar framerates, and alsolooks > far better than 1600x1200. It's not just aliasing, it's also the texture > shimmering that FSAA gets rid of. Even at 1600x1200 with no FSAA, lightpoles > and fence post will flicker, as will the grass and road textures. Thewhite > paint on the side of the road that are constant moving dots becomes white > painted lines with FSAA. With FSAA, driving through the 'ring' is likewatching > a tape of someone driving it. > > Even for a game like Quake3, the picture looks better at 800x600 with even2x > FSAA than 1600x1200 with no FSAA, and runs a whole lot smoother. > There's is very little framerate hit with 2x FSAA. With 4x FSAA, > there's just no comparison in the picture but there is a performance hit,so > you have to lower the resolution a little, but the picture is worth it.I will > never-ever buy another 3D card that doesn't offer this level of FSAA --ever. I

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> don't care how many more fps they add. > > > > > > > > > > > "Jay J" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >This is all well and good, but..... What kind of frame rate hit does it

take > >with FSAA turned on ????? > > > >It's my understanding that you take such a FPS hit that it basicallynegates > >the use of 2x or 4x FSAA on the V5 5500, and I've heard the GeForce 2 GTS > >isn't even capable of doing real FSAA so is this just a moot point? > > > >Or am I wrong? Because I would really like to hear some testomonials fromV5 > >5500 users as I'm considering buying one for my new system. > > > >Thanks > >Jay J > > >

On Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:31:32 GMT, "Jay J" <[email hidden]> thus spoke:

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>WOW! > >Thanks for the info Dude.... > >I've been kicking around the notion of getting a V5 5500 and all the >testimonials have helped sway my decision. The system I'm planning on buying >will be at least a 866 MHz with 128 to 256 RAM, so I'm chopping at the bit >to run GPL with those kinds of FPS and 4x FSAA!!! > >Jay J

I don't think he was running GPL in FSAA. There is no way the Geforce2 could handle 1600xXX res with FSAA. -- Nos

I'd say your P3-800 shares a-lot of the credit for keeping your framerate up. Graphically, GPL doesn't impose as heavy a load on the vid card as say. SCGT and F12k, so if you have a cpu that is as stout as yours the vid card can almost loaf adding the fsaa. On my PIII 500, I start running out of steam on anything over 800x600. But the 4x V5 FSAA really fools ya into thinking the res is much higher. I did disable the 3d lotus wheels I had picked up and that also added back a few fps. -- dave henrie Team Backmarker #55b Dodge Stratus Super Touring Car TPTCC "chainbreaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:#F#XXZS3$GA.432@CPMSNBBSA08... > > "Jay J" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:sMo55.415$[email hidden]... > > This is all well and good, but..... What kind of frame rate hit does it > take > > with FSAA turned on ????? > > > > It's my understanding that you take such a FPS hit that it basically > negates > > the use of 2x or 4x FSAA on the V5 5500, and I've heard the GeForce 2 GTS > > isn't even capable of doing real FSAA so is this just a moot point? > > > > Or am I wrong? Because I would really like to hear some testomonials from > V5 > > 5500 users as I'm considering buying one for my new system. > > > > Thanks > > Jay J > > > > > You're wrong on this one, at least for the Geforce and GPL. I have a > P3-800/Geforce 256, and with the 5.30 drivers and FSAA forced to max, have a > negligible frame rate hit on GPL. Max detail, all cars, 1600x res--rates > drop briefly to high 20s-low 30s at the start of a race, sitting at the back > of the field with everything displayed at every track except Monaco where > the drop is to the mid-20s. Very quickly, rates hit max and stay there. I > don't know why Nvidia's FSAA has so little affect on GPL's frame rates--yes > I'm sure it's enabled. > > Just about everything else I've tried FSAA with produces no discernible > gameplay benefit for me when compared with normal high resolution, or frame > rates so low as to make using it worthless, except for old sims like Janes > F15. > > Jerry Morelock > >