PS2 Force Feedback vs. PC

Can anyone comment on FF on a PS2 vs. a PC? Just general opinions. I play a lot of GPL NR2003, F1C, LFS, so I know what the PC can do.I'm thinking about getting a wheel for a PS2, and also considering getting an XBox. I know that there is at least one wheel that supports both. The only problem is that my Logitech Formula Force (PC) is starting to show it's age, and I was thinking of upgrading to the driving force pro, which is not XBox compatible. So my dilema is, is the FF on PS2 worth getting a Driving Force Pro, and eventually an XBox wheel, or go with a cheaper wheel for the consoles? Whew! Thanks for any advice.

Force feedback on the consoles generally isn't as detailed as on the PC. The USB wheels recommended for the PS2 are Logitech wheels, but they're not officially branded as being both PC and PS2 compatible. There is a nice FF wheel coming out fo the XBox in conjunction with Forza Motosports, but there are no other FF wheels in existance for the XBox. This wheel will not be PC compatible. The wheel will be $150 and can also be purchased with a seat and frame. For $150, it better be good. I've used my Logitech Momo with my PC and PS2. It's twitchy on the PS2 and difficult to calibrate. It's not officialy supported so I can't complain. Most of the effects are bumps from hitting cars, rumble strips etc. I don't recall feeling weight transfer.

"Mike King" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Can anyone comment on FF on a PS2 vs. a PC? Just general opinions. Iplay a Technically speaking, PS2 or consoles in general don't have force feedback. They just have "rumble" capabilities. A small motor/weight combo like those used in a pager can give you a shake with precise timing, but that's hardly force feedback. --KC

"Kasey Chang \(remove EATSPAM to reply\)" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:6UtKd.17465$[email hidden]:

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> "Mike King" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >> Can anyone comment on FF on a PS2 vs. a PC? Just general opinions. I > play a > > Technically speaking, PS2 or consoles in general don't have force > feedback. > They just have "rumble" capabilities. A small motor/weight combo like > those > used in a pager can give you a shake with precise timing, but that's > hardly > force feedback. > > --KC > > >

That's what I thought. Sounds like an inexpensive wheel for the consoles, and something else for my PC. Thanks

The PS2 does have force feedback not just rumble effects. The XBox will have force feedback with the new wheel and Forza. There's no reason why either platform can't have effects as good as GPL, LFS or any other PC title. There's just not enough interest or a large enough market to make it a worthy feature in most gamers eyes.

Mike you might google this group (search it ) because of 9 posters, seems 8 of them really really like the playstation/PC force pro wheel by logitech, and the other guy only just liked it Heheheheee Mike King enlightened us with:

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> "Kasey Chang \(remove EATSPAM to reply\)" > <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:6UtKd.17465$[email hidden]: > >> "Mike King" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:[email hidden]... >>> Can anyone comment on FF on a PS2 vs. a PC? Just general opinions. >>> I play a >> >> Technically speaking, PS2 or consoles in general don't have force >> feedback. >> They just have "rumble" capabilities. A small motor/weight combo like >> those >> used in a pager can give you a shake with precise timing, but that's >> hardly >> force feedback. >> >> --KC >> >> >> > > That's what I thought. Sounds like an inexpensive wheel for the > consoles, and something else for my PC. > Thanks

<[email hidden]> schreef in bericht news:[email hidden]... > The PS2 does have force feedback not just rumble effects. The XBox > will have force feedback with the new wheel and Forza. There's no > reason why either platform can't have effects as good as GPL, LFS or > any other PC title. There's just not enough interest or a large > enough market to make it a worthy feature in most gamers eyes. The Gamecube has a Logitech force-feedback wheel as well. IMO it's surprisingly good with R-Racing (you do feel weight transfer there), as well as the more arcade-style Burnout 2. Even more surprising, there's a handheld force-feedback controller for the PSOne, called JogCon. It came with Ridge Racer 4, where it was a fun addition but not great (weight transfer could be felt). But with V-Rally 2 it was really very impressive, you could really feel the typical resistance on the front wheels of driving through snow or mud, as well as asphalt and gravel. Gran Turismo 2 was supposed to support it, but it was really terribly executed in the demo and left out of the final version. Which is the main reason the JogCon flopped (it wasn't easy to hold as well). (BTW a great aspect of R-Racing is the commentary you get while driving, telling you things like you have to brake earlier, aim closer to the inside of the turn, go through turns faster etc. etc., really great. It also tells you when you've taken a turn really well. With a little bit of tuning the handling of the cars is pretty nice in that game, it's a lot of fun to play). On the Gamecube it comes with Pacman VS, which is a lot of fun as well.

[email hidden] wrote: > The PS2 does have force feedback not just rumble effects. The XBox > will have force feedback with the new wheel and Forza. There's no > reason why either platform can't have effects as good as GPL, LFS or > any other PC title. There's just not enough interest or a large > enough market to make it a worthy feature in most gamers eyes. Are you sure about FF on the Xbox? What wheel and what titles support it? I thought it was "vibration" only, which has kept me from buying one.

For-Example wrote: > Are you sure about FF on the Xbox? Logitech has stated on the record that the Xbox does *not* support FF. They also said they plenty of ideas should that change. It appears to be a problem with the XDK. There's a story on this at IGN in relation to Forza. Sucks ass, IMO. I might hold out hope if Ed Fries was still around, but Microsoft Games seems to have taken a turn towards chicken shit with his departure (may be the cause of it). Ideally, they would add drivers to the XDK and I could use my Driving Force Pro in Forza. Anything less, and I'm sticking to PS2 and PC for simulation racing, and Xbox for arcade racing only.

Well, Logitech doesn't know what they're talking about. According to the movie at this link: http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/driving/forzamotorsport/media.html The Speedster 3 driving wheel will support FF. Granted, you never know until things hit the showroom floor, but it does appear that Logitech is dead wrong in this case.

* [email hidden] > Well, Logitech doesn't know what they're talking about. According > to the movie at this link: > > http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/driving/forzamotorsport/media.html I take it for granted that Garrett Young (lead program manager for Microsoft's racing studio) and Jef Holove (Director of Product Marketing at Logitech) know what they're talking about when they say that the Xbox hardware doesn't support FF. Here is what they say: Garrett Young: http://interviews.teamxbox.com/xbox/873/Forza-Motorsport-Microsoft-Games-Interview/p3/ # If E3 was any indication, MadCatz looks as though they are planning # a special Forza wheel. We have no doubt that the wheel will be # spectacular, but will it support force feedback via Forza? # # Garrett Young: MadCatz was a great partner for creating our wheel # for E3. The Xbox doesn't actually support force feedback natively on # the hardware side, so we are still working out the kinks with them # on how we can utilize the rumble channel to deliver the # functionality we want. Jef Holove: http://cars.ign.com/articles/526/526806p1.html?fromint=1 # ...the Xbox console doesn't support force feedback. But maybe I get it all wrong; I don't know. I am going to buy Forza Motorsport when the game hits the shelves no matter what the Xbox hardware supports. -- ari

Mike King wrote: | Can anyone comment on FF on a PS2 vs. a PC? Just general opinions. I | play a lot of GPL NR2003, F1C, LFS, so I know what the PC can do. The PS2 can do the same (sometimes doesn't due to the arcady nature of the games, or lack of attention to detail during implementation). The Xbox *could* if MS got their act together. | So my dilema is, is the FF on PS2 worth getting a Driving Force Pro, | and eventually an XBox wheel, or go with a cheaper wheel for the | consoles? Whew! Your choice. Some of the FF on PS2 is pretty amazing. If you like rally and are in the Europe area (or have a modded PS2 and a PAL-capable TV), try RBR. It's really good on both PC as well as PS2. On the PS2, it's multi-turn aware (for DFPro) and allows you to adjust steering ranges different from 200 and 900 degrees. It seems like the FF is the same quality as on the PC, if not even a bit more "integrated", for lack of a better word. The first time I tried it I spent a good half an hour just touring around the parking lot, the first "school mode" track, enjoying exactly what you described, weight transfer and general car feel, which is strong and precise IMHO. Test Drive: Eve of Destruction is another interesting title, FF-wise (and also does multi-turn, although not with adjustable range). GT4 comes to mind, haven't really tried that yet, though so I won't comment.

Sounds like the Xbox hardware doesn't support it, but the wheel will. They are going to try and emulate it using rumble pad commands. Hey, what ever works! They might pull this off just enough to make it work reasonably well. Maybe not as good as PC FF, but a step up from Xbox rumbles.

I'm supposed to be doing a story on console racing games for Car and Driver magazine, but it's been on hold because Sony dropped online MP from GT4 and there are no decent steering wheels for the Xbox. I can't get anybody at Sony to do anything but mumble when I ask about the missing Net code, and Microsoft clammed up when I asked them about those nice wheels they used to demo Forza at E3 last year, so I talked to a source at Logitech. He said neither Logi nor Guillemot/TM had ever bothered to make a decent wheel for the Xbox because it doesn't support FF (it's never even been in the SDK), and few console gamers are willing to spend more than $24.95 (i.e., entry-level Mad Katz) for a non-FF wheel. Hence, no market. I had heard that there's a Xbox controller-to-USB dongle you can mail-order from Japan (it only costs $15, but the shipping is twice that), but my Logi guy said don't bother; the rumble FX are only loosely related to what the chassis is doing (it does recognize curbs). He said they were all waiting to hear whether or not the Xbox 2 would support FF before Logi would commit to making a wheel for it. OTOH, I have heard good things abt. the Logi DFP (Driving Force Pro), with both the PS2 and the PC. It's a 900-degree wheel (2-1/2 turns lock-to-lock), but it will work fine w. games that don't support all that twirling (it defaults to 270 deg., I think). There are no PC drivers for it...yet...but if you have Logi's profile s/w you can set it up for a PC, no prob. Unlike every earlier FF wheel, the DFP uses neither cogs nor wires & pulleys; it's an induction motor - no physical contact - so you don't get gear lash or linear friction. I've have a DFP which I haven't installed (and won't until it's time to finish the C&D article), but I did try one on Force-Dynamics incredible shake 'n' bake cockpit simulator. It'd been shaken-not-stirred almost to death, so I'm not sure it's reliability is up to the original Logi Momo Force (mine is still going strong), but it's a VERY nice wheel. <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Well, Logitech doesn't know what they're talking about. According to > the movie at this link: > > http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/driving/forzamotorsport/media.html > > The Speedster 3 driving wheel will support FF. Granted, you never know > until things hit the showroom floor, but it does appear that Logitech > is dead wrong in this case. >

Steve Smith wrote: <snipped>

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| OTOH, I have heard good things abt. the Logi DFP (Driving Force | Pro), with both the PS2 and the PC. It's a 900-degree wheel (2-1/2 | turns lock-to-lock), but it will work fine w. games that don't | support all that twirling (it defaults to 270 deg., I think). There | are no PC drivers for it...yet...but if you have Logi's profile s/w | you can set it up for a PC, no prob. Unlike every earlier FF wheel, | the DFP uses neither cogs nor wires & pulleys; it's an induction | motor - no physical contact - so you don't get gear lash or linear | friction.

What? "Induction motor"? That sounds sweet, but I am afraid it's just a regular set of gears. (with a ball bearing on the wheel shaft like your MOMO Force, though). Just take off the top of the case to have a look for yourself. It is a nice wheel, though. The default range is 200 degrees (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/US/EN,CRID=2250,contenti d=7226,detail=2).

[email hidden] wrote: > Well, Logitech doesn't know what they're talking about. > According to the movie at this link: > > http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/driving/forzamotorsport/media.html > > The Speedster 3 driving wheel will support FF. Fanatec is full of it. Their website (fanatec.com) claims the Speedster 3 will support force feedback with "any current or upcoming racing game. The Speedster 3 ForceShock allows ForceFeedback with all racing games on Xbox". Reading between the lines of their intentionally misleading website, it appears that what they call "force feedback" is: 1) a generic center spring force, configurable but unrelated to what's happening in the game (might as well be a mechanical spring) 2) "ForceEffects" -- aka standard rumble effects, used to vibrate the wheel shaft 3) "ForceShock" -- when the rumble output from the game crosses a certain threshold, they jerk the wheel side to side. Obviously this is not "force feedback" as the term is used by every other wheel manufacturer on the planet. Logitech and the Forza team are both on record that true force feedback is simply not supported by the XDK. With that in mind, read the website and watch that video again. They are slimeballs, IMO, intentionally misleading people. Looking around the web, there are a large number of gamers and publications that have been fooled.

I was misinformed, as Rick Blaine said. Well, an induction device woulda been great - eliminating mechanical contact (aside from the bearings) would have eliminated wear and tear on the innards, which is why most FF wheels eventually fail. Back to the old drawing board. (Damn them! Immersion owns *all* the patents....) "tomb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Steve Smith wrote: > > <snipped> > > | OTOH, I have heard good things abt. the Logi DFP (Driving Force > | Pro), with both the PS2 and the PC. It's a 900-degree wheel (2-1/2 > | turns lock-to-lock), but it will work fine w. games that don't > | support all that twirling (it defaults to 270 deg., I think). There > | are no PC drivers for it...yet...but if you have Logi's profile s/w > | you can set it up for a PC, no prob. Unlike every earlier FF wheel, > | the DFP uses neither cogs nor wires & pulleys; it's an induction > | motor - no physical contact - so you don't get gear lash or linear > | friction. > > What? "Induction motor"? That sounds sweet, but I am afraid it's just a > regular set of gears. (with a ball bearing on the wheel shaft like your

MOMO > Force, though). Just take off the top of the case to have a look for > yourself. > > It is a nice wheel, though. The default range is 200 degrees >(http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/US/EN,CRID=2250,contenti > d=7226,detail=2). > >