Re: Rally sim with snow condition?

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (GUCCIPHILE) wrote: > Is there any rally sim out there with snow/ice condition but hasexcellent > graphics and physics? > Rally Masters, Sweden... great ! ;-) Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

On Wed 12 Jul 2000 03:03:02am, GUCCIPHILE wrote: >Is there any rally sim out there with snow/ice condition but has >excellent graphics and physics? Every rally game ever released has produced moans about its physics, and until someone releases one of GPL quality at least, it'll always be that way. Pretty much all the games have snowy conditions - certainly Colin McRae, Rally Masters and Rally Championship do. The last has the best graphics, and, provided you download the patch, has the best physics as well (there's even an .ini file you can tweak). -- David. (GPLRank handicap: +19.68) "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really." (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

Is there any rally sim out there with snow/ice condition but has excellent graphics and physics?

"GUCCIPHILE" <[email hidden]> wrote > Is there any rally sim out there with snow/ice condition but has excellent > graphics and physics? Nope, none have excellent physics, but they all have the rest ;) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

GUCCIPHILE <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Is there any rally sim out there with snow/ice condition but has excellent > graphics and physics? RC 2000 is your man here Gucciphile (making the switch I see.....hehe) The physics on this aren't brilliant but but it looks well and the car moves somewhat realistically. Rally Masters has snow too I think but I don't know how good this is, its a nice option but I don't think its any better than RC2000.

On 12 Jul 2000 02:03:02 GMT, [email hidden] (GUCCIPHILE) wrote: >Is there any rally sim out there with snow/ice condition but has excellent >graphics and physics? My first recommendation to you would be the excellent Rally Masters. If you can't obtain this title, then go for the older and cheaper (but still fun) Colin McRae Rally. Not sure what the status is on CMR2 for the PC. As for RC... It has the best graphics of any rally game out there, that's for sure. Unfortunately, the physics on the loose stuff (ESPECIALLY on snow and ice) leave much to be desired. As a tarmac rally game, it can be quite fun though. As someone pointed out, there are no rally games with "excellent" physics, but some certainly feel better than others. Martin Long Live Nigel Mansell!

RC2000 is great and those problems of snow and dirts could be rectified with an edit of the files some adjustment by user and you will get the FINEST rally game ever too bad it did not have international course!! Martin Ursua <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:396ed26c.49401190@news... > On 12 Jul 2000 02:03:02 GMT, [email hidden] (GUCCIPHILE) > wrote: > > >Is there any rally sim out there with snow/ice condition but hasexcellent

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> >graphics and physics? > > My first recommendation to you would be the excellent Rally > Masters. If you can't obtain this title, then go for the older and > cheaper (but still fun) Colin McRae Rally. Not sure what the status > is on CMR2 for the PC. > > As for RC... It has the best graphics of any rally game out > there, that's for sure. Unfortunately, the physics on the loose stuff > (ESPECIALLY on snow and ice) leave much to be desired. As a tarmac > rally game, it can be quite fun though. > > As someone pointed out, there are no rally games with > "excellent" physics, but some certainly feel better than others. > > Martin > Long Live Nigel Mansell!

On Wed 12 Jul 2000 03:03:02am, GUCCIPHILE wrote: >Is there any rally sim out there with snow/ice condition but has >excellent graphics and physics? Do remember, folks, that British Rally Cars are *front* wheel drive. Don't expect them to feel like an F1 car or a BMW! -- David. (GPLRank handicap: +19.68) "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really." (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

David Buttery wrote in message >Pretty much all the games have snowy conditions - certainly Colin >McRae, Rally Masters and Rally Championship do. The last has the best >graphics, and, provided you download the patch, has the best physics as >well (there's even an .ini file you can tweak). I haven't tried the first two, but if RC has the best physics, then the other two must have close to no physics at all. RC, patched or not, had woeful physics. It felt like I was driving a cardboard shoebox. The main problem was that the car seemed to lack inertia. Everything else about the game was excellent, so it was a real shame that its physics were lacklustre. I will try the Rally Masters demo soon just to satisfy my curiosity. Marko;

It all depends on what you really want. I own both RC2K and Rally Masters but not Colin McRae (as it was release in US more than a year after it was produce and the graphics look like something from the atari compared to these other two - both release before CMR in US.) Anyway - if you are needing GPL physics you will be sadly disappointed because nothing has it in a Rally sim. If physics are your only bag, then Rally Masters has very plausable physics (say its SPGT of rally sims) but it lacks depth. Short stages, minimal setups, weak damage model, all cars feel the same and moderate graphics made this game very enjoyable for the short hall...however, after the fun of racing side by side in the 4 car SS wears off this game has little else to offer because the sim part falls flat. RC2K is the exact oposite - the FEEL* of the car is not as good (say its the NASCAR 3 of rally sims) as Rally Masters but it makes up for a lot with the sheer depth of this game. Very demanding and long stages (from 3 min - 18+min) with some of the best graphics around, a complex damage model, every car has its own feel, great sense of speed, all sorts of conditions (determined by the stage not by random), long indepth season and some car tweaking in my book more than makes up for the ok physics. However, almost no attention was paid to the 2 player or arcade mode and it shows. * (OPINION) I said car feel - because if you ask me the cars actually react physically more realist in RC2K as a front wheel drive car should react, however, the game just doesn't give you the right cues or something so it seems a little flat or responsless - where as Rally Masters has that good response and feel it gives you very loose physics - similar to powerslide or something like that, where you can get your back end almost spun around and still catch it - fun yes, real no. GUCCIPHILE <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Is there any rally sim out there with snow/ice condition but has excellent > graphics and physics?

The perfect review, IMO...such a shame that RC cars don't seem right, or the online play isn't good. With especially the former feature, it would be a true challenging sim. (still prefer it to RM, though...) -- Colin Harris ColinHarris in N3/NL & VROC Remove "your knickers" to reply L_NiN0 <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9K9b5.55916$[email hidden]... > It all depends on what you really want. I own both RC2K and Rally Masters > but not Colin McRae (as it was release in US more than a year after it was > produce and the graphics look like something from the atari compared to > these other two - both release before CMR in US.) > > Anyway - if you are needing GPL physics you will be sadly disappointed > because nothing has it in a Rally sim. > > If physics are your only bag, then Rally Masters has very plausable physics > (say its SPGT of rally sims) but it lacks depth. Short stages, minimal > setups, weak damage model, all cars feel the same and moderate graphics made > this game very enjoyable for the short hall...however, after the fun of > racing side by side in the 4 car SS wears off this game has little else to > offer because the sim part falls flat. > > RC2K is the exact oposite - the FEEL* of the car is not as good (say its the > NASCAR 3 of rally sims) as Rally Masters but it makes up for a lot with the > sheer depth of this game. Very demanding and long stages (from 3 min - > 18+min) with some of the best graphics around, a complex damage model, every > car has its own feel, great sense of speed, all sorts of conditions > (determined by the stage not by random), long indepth season and some car > tweaking in my book more than makes up for the ok physics. However, almost > no attention was paid to the 2 player or arcade mode and it shows. > > * (OPINION) I said car feel - because if you ask me the cars actually react > physically more realist in RC2K as a front wheel drive car should react, > however, the game just doesn't give you the right cues or something so it > seems a little flat or responsless - where as Rally Masters has that good > response and feel it gives you very loose physics - similar to powerslide or > something like that, where you can get your back end almost spun around and > still catch it - fun yes, real no. > > > GUCCIPHILE <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Is there any rally sim out there with snow/ice condition but has excellent > > graphics and physics? > >

People rarely say what they think the cars should handle like, only that "it's not right". I don't think may people here have too good an idea as to how a fwd rally car handles. David G Fisher "David Buttery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Wed 12 Jul 2000 03:03:02am, GUCCIPHILE wrote: > > >Is there any rally sim out there with snow/ice condition but has > >excellent graphics and physics? > > Do remember, folks, that British Rally Cars are *front* wheel drive. > Don't expect them to feel like an F1 car or a BMW! > > -- > David. (GPLRank handicap: +19.68) > "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, > really." > (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > I don't think may people here have too good an idea as to how a fwd rally > car handles. Including you, excluding many. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

who rattled your cage? So the cars in any or all three of the aforementioned cars handle correctly, do they? Rally cars, with a few obvious exceptions, handle no differently than the street version, and so not at all like the versions available in games at the moment. And, FYI, I grabbed a mate of mine, ex-Lombard RAC 12th in class, to test them. Surprisingly, the best of the bad bunch as far as he was concerned was CMR. Not content with p**sing off the entire GPL crowd, you now turn your attention to the new market of rallyers. Well done, David. -- Colin Harris ColinHarris in N3/NL & VROC Remove "your knickers" to reply David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:VDob5.44172$A%[email hidden]... > People rarely say what they think the cars should handle like, only that > "it's not right". > > I don't think may people here have too good an idea as to how a fwd rally > car handles. > > David G Fisher > > > "David Buttery" <[email hidden]> wrote in > message news:[email hidden]... > > On Wed 12 Jul 2000 03:03:02am, GUCCIPHILE wrote: > > > > >Is there any rally sim out there with snow/ice condition but has > > >excellent graphics and physics? > > > > Do remember, folks, that British Rally Cars are *front* wheel drive. > > Don't expect them to feel like an F1 car or a BMW! > > > > -- > > David. (GPLRank handicap: +19.68) > > "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, > > really." > > (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh) >

David G Fisher wrote in message <_kyb5.44592$A%[email hidden]>... >Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and no one ever admits they mightbe >wrong on this topic. I'm going to continue to listen to the experts, and >then formulate my opinions. If I end up in the minority with those >opinions.....then great. Just a few things, from my uninformed viewpoint: It does not seem to matter much (or as much as it should) how fast you are travelling; if you hit the side of a steep wall or medium-sized rock at just the right angle/position you will flip on to your roof. Makes sense at high speeds, but at a (literally) *snail's pace*? LOL! Inertia would have something to say about that. Strike one. Again, hit something at the side of the road, but this time only at speed. Sometimes, the car will violently (almost *instantaneously*) roll to a 45 degree angle (so that the car is travelling momentarily on two wheels, either the right-side wheels, or left-side), and almost immediately it will lurch violently back again to four wheels, and you continue as if nothing happened. Whether it's translation or rotation, all things decelerate or accelerate when acted upon by a force - nothing terrestrial is *that* instantaneous. Again, as if there was no such thing as inertia. Strike two. Travel very quickly down a straight and hit a hay bail or a fence post head on, or a log on the ground with your right front tire. Come to a complete dead stop instantaneously. An almost humourous inability to handle collisions properly. Yet again, no regards to inertia and Newtons 1st law. Strike three. You're out. Not the game, because it had many redeeming features, and not all of its physics are bad. In fact, I would describe its physics as incomplete, most parts done well, but a few significant (and fundamental) parts (e.g. inertia) not so well or at all. But *you're* out, David, for claiming this game to have physics rivalling that of GPL, which I can see is patently wrong even after having played GPL for only a couple of days. It's simply not in the same league. I look forward to Ubisoft's rally sim. Meanwhile, I'll enjoy GPL. Bendito;

David G Fisher wrote in message ... >People rarely say what they think the cars should handle like, only that >"it's not right". > >I don't think may people here have too good an idea as to how a fwd rally >car handles. That may be true, but this argument certainly does not exonerate Rally Championship's physics. There is a certain amount you can say about the physics of a game without having driven the cars that are simulated in it. Simple things like inertia and collisions when simulated poorly are evident to anyone with an open mind. Bendito;

On Thu 13 Jul 2000 08:26:33pm, ymenard wrote: >"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote >> I don't think may people here have too good an idea as to how a >> fwd rally car handles. > >Including you, excluding many. Certainly including me. I've never driven a rally car in my life. And I accept (from what people who *do* know have said) that RC doesn't have physics even close to those in GPL. But, after some fiddling with the .ini file, I find it more satisfying to drive than CMR or RM (both of which I like). When I said "don't forget they're FWD", I didn't mean "you're all talking crap". -- David. (GPLRank handicap: +19.68) "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really." (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

I suggest you read these reviews very carefully before you or anyone else tries to imply that I am alone in my views. I'd guess there are many thousands who agree with me actually, including the majority of real life rally drivers. http://www.digitalsports.com/pc4/rally_championship/review.html http://www.ga-sports.com/review.cfm?review_id=33 http://www.simracingnews.com/games/reviews/rallychampionship2000/index.shtml There were approximately 15 pro rally drivers who had input into RC2000. When I beta tested RC2000, I chatted with a number real life drivers and what I didn't know about rally cars, I soon learned. They had a lot of input, and made sure that MF modeled the cars correctly. A number of the MF team also had rally experience. A number of the other beta testers were successful rally drivers. They also assured me the cars were modeled correctly. I've read the comments of, and talked to, enough real life rally drivers to be confident that MF got it right. I've even driven a rally car myself. Overall, it's a deep and excellent sim, setting new standards in some areas. The silly criticisms here started back when an apla demo was released ( and later a beta) and no matter how many times they were told it was an alpha (there was enormous anticipation of RC, and MF simply wanted to be nice by giving people a taste of what was to come), people here at r.a.s. ignored that enormously important fact, and blasted the physics. Says it all right there. The criticisms of RC that I've read here at r.a.s. since it was released have been mostly silly comments like, "the back end won't slide", and " there should be more pitch and roll". FWD rally cars don't slide very easily at all, but can be made to if the correct technique is used. That technique works perfectly in RC2000. They exhibit almost no pitch and roll ecause they're beefed up with extremely stiff suspensions. Even my girlfriend's Honda doesn't pitch and roll. Why would a rally car? That's where the "cardboard box" comments come from, I guess. Watch any in car camera view on television, and it looks exactly like what you see in the cockpit of a RC2000 car. RC is one of the three best sims with regard to ff. You can't have great ff without an excellent physics model. To be honest, I have given up on expecting serious discussion about car physics here at r.a.s. There's only a few people who really seem to know what they are talking about. I've read too many posts which said the physics in F12000 aren't in the same class as GPL. Nonsense. I've read too many posts claiming that GP2 had canned spins. Nope. I've read far a million posts saying that a sim's physics "suck". I've read (ugh) too many comments about the GPL physics model, and then I find out Jackie Stewart says the real cars had far more grip than they do in GPL. What does he know anyway? Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and no one ever admits they might be wrong on this topic. I'm going to continue to listen to the experts, and then formulate my opinions. If I end up in the minority with those opinions.....then great. David G Fisher "Colin Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_vrb5.661$[email hidden]...

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> who rattled your cage? > So the cars in any or all three of the aforementioned cars handle > correctly, do they? Rally cars, with a few obvious exceptions, handle no > differently than the street version, and so not at all like the versions > available in games at the moment. And, FYI, I grabbed a mate of mine, > ex-Lombard RAC 12th in class, to test them. Surprisingly, the best of the > bad bunch as far as he was concerned was CMR. > > Not content with p**sing off the entire GPL crowd, you now turn your > attention to the new market of rallyers. Well done, David. > > -- > Colin Harris > ColinHarris in N3/NL & VROC > Remove "your knickers" to reply > > > > > David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:VDob5.44172$A%[email hidden]... > > People rarely say what they think the cars should handle like, only that > > "it's not right". > > > > I don't think may people here have too good an idea as to how a fwd

rally

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> > car handles. > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > > "David Buttery" <[email hidden]> wrote in > > message news:[email hidden]... > > > On Wed 12 Jul 2000 03:03:02am, GUCCIPHILE wrote: > > > > > > >Is there any rally sim out there with snow/ice condition but has > > > >excellent graphics and physics? > > > > > > Do remember, folks, that British Rally Cars are *front* wheel drive. > > > Don't expect them to feel like an F1 car or a BMW! > > > > > > -- > > > David. (GPLRank handicap: +19.68) > > > "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, > > > really." > > > (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh) > > > >

David G Fisher wrote: > > I've read (ugh) too many comments about the GPL physics model, and then I > find out Jackie Stewart says the real cars had far more grip than they do in > GPL. What does he know anyway? Jackie Stewart said that real cars had more grip than in GPL? Were did you find this? I wasn't aware that he had tried GPL.

So many words and RC2000 still sucks...

You know, I don't think it sucks at all, in fact it's highly playable in spite of it's limitations. Excellent post earlier about the haybale thing, etc, wtc, but you have to get used to the wheel and it's unusual response to your requests for turning...Actually, I rather like it as a distraction from other things, but I can't help but feel it could be so much better. -- Colin Harris ColinHarris in N3/NL & VROC Remove "your knickers" to reply Jussi <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8ko6gv$ivi$[email hidden]... > So many words and RC2000 still sucks... > > >

So many words and RC2000 still sucks...

On Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:20:21 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote: >People rarely say what they think the cars should handle like, only that >"it's not right". > >I don't think may people here have too good an idea as to how a fwd rally >car handles. Not me either to a point, I think I have some idea, but my old man does have full knowledge, being a former rally driver. He says it is totally unrealistic. Face it. I mean, everyone who have eyes, ears and a driver's licence MUST see that it is totally off the wall. Try braking to a complete stop at 15 metres from 160kph, on gravel no less. bla bla no inertia bla bla no slides et.c et.c et.c Magnetic fields messed the physics up, horribly. Get over it. /Magnus