NSR - Let the issues begin :)

Ok, I can't even get started. Athlon64-3500, Radeon 9800 Pro, and I'm getting 8 fps with the game recommended settings. Trying to figure it out now... -Larry

Mine is rocking. Sorry you're having troubles. 2ghz, 1 gig ram, 256 meg Nvidia, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FSRQd.42219$EG1.22425@lakeread04...

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> Ok, I can't even get started. > > Athlon64-3500, Radeon 9800 Pro, and I'm getting 8 fps with the game > recommended settings. > > Trying to figure it out now... > > -Larry >

It seems that the sim is forcing a 'return to center' spring on the MOMO Force that I have, and with the FFB to High (heard Full turns it off....) there are hardly any feedback effects at all--I am thinking I have something set up incorrectly. Does anyone else have this? Otherwise, they must have repaved Darlington... :)

If you have the FF on full, turn them down to High instead. Full seems to turn them off. Also, you have to turn on the "Reverse Forces" option. Remember, this is an ISI based SIM which means negative values for FF. Instead of +- sliders in NSR there is the "Reverse Forces" option. -Larry "Smokin_Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > It seems that the sim is forcing a 'return to center' spring on the > MOMO Force that I have, and with the FFB to High (heard Full turns it > off....) there are hardly any feedback effects at all--I am thinking I > have something set up incorrectly. Does anyone else have this? > Otherwise, they must have repaved Darlington... :) >

Larry, Thanks for the reply. Yes, I had all the customary MOMO / ISI settings done--FF reversed, set to high, etc. and am very surprised at the centering spring being enabled in the wheel as soon as I hit the track. I have it off in Windows control panel. It is very un--simlike in feel. In fact, it feels very much like the Chase for the Cup physics--touchy steering (at 13:1 or 32:1 steering ratio--feeling is the same) and literally no feedback through the wheel--just a bit of resistance due to the centering spring and thats it. And the centering spring is very unnatural feeling. Honestly, I preferred the feedback in the wheel that Thunder 2004 gave over this. I cannot believe these are the ultra hardcore 'sim' physics EA has spoken of--something is definitely not right here. Also, and I have no idea what is up with this--the first time I ran the CUBE 3d config, I got a value of 71.2 M/sec @1600x1200x32 and the sim ran great. Later on in the night, at Daytona, my FPS nearly was cut in half and hovered right around the 30 mark. It appeared to be slowing down the more I played it. I reran CUBE for the heck of it and now it gives 35 M/sec which is very difficult to understand. Aside from the 'arcade' handling (I am still assuming setup issue here), the graphics are gorgeous for the tracks and the dynamic weather changes are very well done, in my opinion. I see a huge amount of improvement here, but the driving model, for whatever reason, is behaving exactly like my Chase for the Cup XBOX game at the moment. And unlike all other ISI sims and mods for them--there are absolutely no lines in the *.plr file for the controller options--this abscence is interesting..... Thanks again for the reply, Larry!!

Something's wrong then. I had ff set to full and had almost no feedback. Set it to high and now the ff is excellent. Don't know how to solve your problem though, but I can tell you that you are definitely not experiencing the true ff effects. -- David G Fisher "Smokin_Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Larry, > > Thanks for the reply. Yes, I had all the customary MOMO / ISI settings > done--FF reversed, set to high, etc. and am very surprised at the > centering spring being enabled in the wheel as soon as I hit the track. > I have it off in Windows control panel. It is very un--simlike in > feel. In fact, it feels very much like the Chase for the Cup > physics--touchy steering (at 13:1 or 32:1 steering ratio--feeling is > the same) and literally no feedback through the wheel--just a bit of > resistance due to the centering spring and thats it. And the centering > spring is very unnatural feeling. Honestly, I preferred the feedback > in the wheel that Thunder 2004 gave over this. I cannot believe these > are the ultra hardcore 'sim' physics EA has spoken of--something is > definitely not right here. > > Also, and I have no idea what is up with this--the first time I ran the > CUBE 3d config, I got a value of 71.2 M/sec @1600x1200x32 and the sim > ran great. Later on in the night, at Daytona, my FPS nearly was cut in > half and hovered right around the 30 mark. It appeared to be slowing > down the more I played it. I reran CUBE for the heck of it and now it > gives 35 M/sec which is very difficult to understand. > > Aside from the 'arcade' handling (I am still assuming setup issue > here), the graphics are gorgeous for the tracks and the dynamic weather > changes are very well done, in my opinion. I see a huge amount of > improvement here, but the driving model, for whatever reason, is > behaving exactly like my Chase for the Cup XBOX game at the moment. > > And unlike all other ISI sims and mods for them--there are absolutely > no lines in the *.plr file for the controller options--this abscence is > interesting..... > > Thanks again for the reply, Larry!! >

It is strange--and the centering spring 'forcing' is very wrong. I have the feedback set to High now (and even at Full, the 'resistance' is there, but no feedback) Turning it to medium the wheel is absolutely not returning to center (like all other sims I have played) but the FFB is non existent. I am still trying to work out the kinks here, but this is a bit disappointing as I know this is not the true physics of the thing. But the first time I hit the track--you can see the stick 'jiggle' a bit as the center spring command is sent to it by the sim. What kind of feedback are you getting David? Is it simply a 'resistance to moving the wheel' like I have, or is it actually giving you some bumps? I took it out to Darlington and the track and steering were so smooth as to be hugely unbelievable. I am not sure if they had time to 'bump model' the tracks, but even contact with other objects give zero feedback. I have used two ways to set the wheel--One with the default Logitech setup, but this does not work as it gives all the wrong axis for braking and steering, so I am forced to customize it by remapping all the buttons and shifter. I am going to keep looking for a solution because if this is the way it is, I have to say it's the best port of a console game yet--but no where near what Papyrus did 3 years ago, and ISI did last year. This is Tiburons baby here, and I sure hope what I am seeing is a config issue, or something that can be patched. There was a mention in the readme of sometimes controllers not being recognized, so you just had to reset the wheel in the sim. Even this does not work. Huge disappointment with the driving model, the rest of the sim I am drooling over :)

Smokin_Bob wrote:

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> It is strange--and the centering spring 'forcing' is very wrong. I > have the feedback set to High now (and even at Full, the 'resistance' > is there, but no feedback) Turning it to medium the wheel is absolutely > not returning to center (like all other sims I have played) but the FFB > is non existent. I am still trying to work out the kinks here, but > this is a bit disappointing as I know this is not the true physics of > the thing. But the first time I hit the track--you can see the stick > 'jiggle' a bit as the center spring command is sent to it by the sim.

is it set to "wheel" ?

fredrickson, Yes, it is set to wheel. I made a typo in my post in reference to the 'stick jiggle' I meant that the wheel would give a jitter as the driving portion of the sim is entered. I am going to reinstall the demo and give it a look as I do not remember having this issue with the demo. Even though the demo physics are reported as being not finalized, I am more interested in seeing how the wheel behaves there.

Smokin_Bob wrote:

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> It is strange--and the centering spring 'forcing' is very wrong. I > have the feedback set to High now (and even at Full, the 'resistance' > is there, but no feedback) Turning it to medium the wheel is absolutely > not returning to center (like all other sims I have played) but the FFB > is non existent. I am still trying to work out the kinks here, but > this is a bit disappointing as I know this is not the true physics of > the thing. But the first time I hit the track--you can see the stick > 'jiggle' a bit as the center spring command is sent to it by the sim. > > What kind of feedback are you getting David? Is it simply a > 'resistance to moving the wheel' like I have, or is it actually giving > you some bumps? I took it out to Darlington and the track and steering > were so smooth as to be hugely unbelievable. I am not sure if they had > time to 'bump model' the tracks, but even contact with other objects > give zero feedback. > > I have used two ways to set the wheel--One with the default Logitech > setup, but this does not work as it gives all the wrong axis for > braking and steering, so I am forced to customize it by remapping all > the buttons and shifter. I am going to keep looking for a solution > because if this is the way it is, I have to say it's the best port of a > console game yet--but no where near what Papyrus did 3 years ago, and > ISI did last year. This is Tiburons baby here, and I sure hope what I > am seeing is a config issue, or something that can be patched. There > was a mention in the readme of sometimes controllers not being > recognized, so you just had to reset the wheel in the sim. Even this > does not work. > > Huge disappointment with the driving model, the rest of the sim I am > drooling over :)

Remember the Momo Racing is NOT a Momo Force. The Momo Racing has always had better FF effects, or a stonger motor ;) On my Force I feel almost nothing in NSR. Ive tried every possible combo and their just isnt hardly any FF effects coming from the track to the wheel. Everytime I run NSR I come away with more dissapointment. When is RFActor coming out again? Mitch -- Remove "nospam." to reply. SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

I CANNOT BELIEVE IT!!!! I reinstalled the demo, and the same effect was noticed. I thought about fredricksons post, and for the heck of it set the output to joystick, instead of wheel.......and now I have more FFB than I know what to do with!!! Unbelievable, but true in my case--setting it to JOYSTICK fixed it for me--bumps, wall hits, grass driving--it can all be felt now!!! If you have wheel problems, try the JOYSTICK setting--it is a HUGE difference!! I wonder if there is a bug for the MOMO Force wheel... Thanks again for all the help, I am so glad I finally got this sorted.

Smokin_Bob wrote: > I CANNOT BELIEVE IT!!!! I reinstalled the demo, and the same effect > If you have wheel problems, try the JOYSTICK setting--it is a HUGE > difference!! I wonder if there is a bug for the MOMO Force wheel... Sounds good Bob. Ill try as soon as I get home. 1 issue down 25 to go ;) Mitch -- Remove "nospam." to reply. SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

"Smokin_Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... >> What kind of feedback are you getting David? Is it simply a > 'resistance to moving the wheel' like I have, or is it actually giving > you some bumps? I took it out to Darlington and the track and steering > were so smooth as to be hugely unbelievable. I am not sure if they had > time to 'bump model' the tracks, but even contact with other objects > give zero feedback. I am using a Ferrari ff wheel, so I have it set to "wheel" and ff strength to 100% . I feel bumps in the road, and collisions with a wall or another car rip the wheel from side to side. Weight transfer, etc. All the things you'd expect. When I had it set to full, I'm not even sure there was any resistance at all. Are you sure it's actually on? There is an on/off button you have to select for the ff in the advanced controller setup screen. Maybe you missed that? -- David G Fisher

This is pretty much what I'm trying to deal with right now... -Larry "Smokin_Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Larry, > > Thanks for the reply. Yes, I had all the customary MOMO / ISI settings > done--FF reversed, set to high, etc. and am very surprised at the > centering spring being enabled in the wheel as soon as I hit the track. > I have it off in Windows control panel. It is very un--simlike in > feel. In fact, it feels very much like the Chase for the Cup > physics--touchy steering (at 13:1 or 32:1 steering ratio--feeling is > the same) and literally no feedback through the wheel--just a bit of > resistance due to the centering spring and thats it. And the centering > spring is very unnatural feeling.

Guess what I'm doing next LOL -Larry "Smokin_Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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>I CANNOT BELIEVE IT!!!! I reinstalled the demo, and the same effect > was noticed. I thought about fredricksons post, and for the heck of it > set the output to joystick, instead of wheel.......and now I have more > FFB than I know what to do with!!! Unbelievable, but true in my > case--setting it to JOYSTICK fixed it for me--bumps, wall hits, grass > driving--it can all be felt now!!! > > If you have wheel problems, try the JOYSTICK setting--it is a HUGE > difference!! I wonder if there is a bug for the MOMO Force wheel... > > Thanks again for all the help, I am so glad I finally got this sorted. >

You are getting the things we are missing. The ONLY thing I'm getting are the spring tension, and a _small_ amount of lightening of the force as the front tires break free. Joystick Mode to the rescue I hope :) -Larry "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > "Smokin_Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >>> What kind of feedback are you getting David? Is it simply a >> 'resistance to moving the wheel' like I have, or is it actually giving >> you some bumps? I took it out to Darlington and the track and steering >> were so smooth as to be hugely unbelievable. I am not sure if they had >> time to 'bump model' the tracks, but even contact with other objects >> give zero feedback. > > I am using a Ferrari ff wheel, so I have it set to "wheel" and ff strength > to 100% . I feel bumps in the road, and collisions with a wall or another > car rip the wheel from side to side. Weight transfer, etc. All the things > you'd expect. When I had it set to full, I'm not even sure there was any > resistance at all. > > Are you sure it's actually on? There is an on/off button you have to > select > for the ff in the advanced controller setup screen. Maybe you missed that? > > > -- > David G Fisher > >

Yes, it is definitely on. As I mentioned, it was as simple as selecting JOYSTICK instead of WHEEL. I believe it to be a bug in the sim with the MOMO Force wheels. On the other hand, now when I set the FFB DETAIL (not the strength slider) to Full, I get even more effects felt. No problems now. The only problem is how the sim is dealing with this particular wheel on my system. And for whatever reason, I have to use JOYSTICK, or I get console physics.

I should also mention that I do not use the Wingman profiler or any other controller software--. Just plugged in. Sure does make a big difference playing now :)

I got it figured out. Stand by :).... -Larry "Smokin_Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Yes, it is definitely on. As I mentioned, it was as simple as > selecting JOYSTICK instead of WHEEL. I believe it to be a bug in the > sim with the MOMO Force wheels. On the other hand, now when I set the > FFB DETAIL (not the strength slider) to Full, I get even more effects > felt. No problems now. > > The only problem is how the sim is dealing with this particular wheel > on my system. And for whatever reason, I have to use JOYSTICK, or I > get console physics. >

THAT will have to change. Stand by.... -Larry "Smokin_Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... >I should also mention that I do not use the Wingman profiler or any > other controller software--. Just plugged in. Sure does make a big > difference playing now :) >

Just an FYI--I am noobie here at the Groups, and am still figuring out the 'sorting' of the messages for display, so my responses may be in the wrong order.

"Smokin_Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... /snip > And unlike all other ISI sims and mods for them--there are absolutely > no lines in the *.plr file for the controller options--this abscence is > interesting..... Check out player_name.ctl in the same dir as the .plr file. Elrikk

/snip Check out player_name.ctl in the same dir as the .plr file. Elrikk

elrikk, Thanks for the information!!! I wondered where all those settings had gotten off to.....

Larry wrote:

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> Ok, I can't even get started. > > Athlon64-3500, Radeon 9800 Pro, and I'm getting 8 fps with the game > recommended settings. > > Trying to figure it out now... > > -Larry > >

I had similar issues with the demo -- Radeon 9700 Pro and AthlonXP2600 in my case. Framerates were extremely low (can't recall the exact figures now). So, have you ironed out your framerate problems? If so, how'd ya do it?

It's Anti-Aliasing. I fixed it 2 ways: 1. Don't exceed 2xAA. The difference between 2xAA and 4xAA is astonishing. in how it affects fps. At texas with 2xAA I have 40fps. With a HIGHER resolution and 2xaa I have over 120fps ! 2. I replaced the Radeon 9800Pro with a GeForce 6800GT. It was time anyway... -Larry <BRH> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Larry wrote: > >> Ok, I can't even get started. >> >> Athlon64-3500, Radeon 9800 Pro, and I'm getting 8 fps with the game >> recommended settings. >> >> Trying to figure it out now... >> >> -Larry > I had similar issues with the demo -- Radeon 9700 Pro and AthlonXP2600 in > my case. Framerates were extremely low (can't recall the exact figures > now). > > So, have you ironed out your framerate problems? If so, how'd ya do it?

Correction.... Texas 1280X1024X32 @ 4xAA = 40fps. 1600X1200X32 @ 2xAA = 120fps plus. -Larry "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:BxARd.51842$EG1.40065@lakeread04...

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> It's Anti-Aliasing. I fixed it 2 ways: > > 1. Don't exceed 2xAA. The difference between 2xAA and 4xAA is > astonishing. in how it affects fps. At texas with 2xAA I have 40fps. > With a HIGHER resolution and 2xaa I have over 120fps ! > > 2. I replaced the Radeon 9800Pro with a GeForce 6800GT. It was time > anyway... > > -Larry

Larry wrote:

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> It's Anti-Aliasing. I fixed it 2 ways: > > 1. Don't exceed 2xAA. The difference between 2xAA and 4xAA is astonishing. > in how it affects fps. At texas with 2xAA I have 40fps. With a HIGHER > resolution and 2xaa I have over 120fps ! > > 2. I replaced the Radeon 9800Pro with a GeForce 6800GT. It was time > anyway... > > -Larry > > <BRH> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > >>Larry wrote: >> >> >>>Ok, I can't even get started. >>> >>>Athlon64-3500, Radeon 9800 Pro, and I'm getting 8 fps with the game >>>recommended settings. >>> >>>Trying to figure it out now... >>> >>>-Larry >> >>I had similar issues with the demo -- Radeon 9700 Pro and AthlonXP2600 in >>my case. Framerates were extremely low (can't recall the exact figures >>now). >> >>So, have you ironed out your framerate problems? If so, how'd ya do it? > > >

Yeah -- After I posted this I saw in another thread that you replaced your vidcard. --- Not an option for me.

Larry wrote:

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> Correction.... > > Texas > > 1280X1024X32 @ 4xAA = 40fps. > > 1600X1200X32 @ 2xAA = 120fps plus. > > -Larry > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:BxARd.51842$EG1.40065@lakeread04... >> It's Anti-Aliasing. I fixed it 2 ways: >> >> 1. Don't exceed 2xAA. The difference between 2xAA and 4xAA is >> astonishing. in how it affects fps. At texas with 2xAA I have 40fps. >> With a HIGHER resolution and 2xaa I have over 120fps ! >> >> 2. I replaced the Radeon 9800Pro with a GeForce 6800GT. It was time >> anyway... >> >> -Larry

What monitor do you run that gives you a refresh rate of 120hz at 16x12? Mitch -- Remove "nospam." to reply. SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

Um, not sure what you mean. I said 120fps. I don't use vsync. The monitor is capable of 100hz @ 1600X1200 though. It's a 22" DiamandPro 2060u -Larry "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9iJRd.1527$[email hidden]...

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> Larry wrote: > >> Correction.... >> >> Texas >> >> 1280X1024X32 @ 4xAA = 40fps. >> >> 1600X1200X32 @ 2xAA = 120fps plus. >> >> -Larry >> >> "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:BxARd.51842$EG1.40065@lakeread04... >>> It's Anti-Aliasing. I fixed it 2 ways: >>> >>> 1. Don't exceed 2xAA. The difference between 2xAA and 4xAA is >>> astonishing. in how it affects fps. At texas with 2xAA I have 40fps. >>> With a HIGHER resolution and 2xaa I have over 120fps ! >>> >>> 2. I replaced the Radeon 9800Pro with a GeForce 6800GT. It was time >>> anyway... >>> >>> -Larry > > What monitor do you run that gives you a refresh rate of 120hz at 16x12? > > Mitch > -- > Remove "nospam." to reply. > SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

Larry wrote:

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> Um, not sure what you mean. I said 120fps. > > I don't use vsync. > > The monitor is capable of 100hz @ 1600X1200 though. It's a 22" DiamandPro > 2060u > > -Larry > > "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9iJRd.1527$[email hidden]... >> Larry wrote: >> >>> Correction.... >>> >>> Texas >>> >>> 1280X1024X32 @ 4xAA = 40fps. >>> >>> 1600X1200X32 @ 2xAA = 120fps plus. >>> >>> -Larry >>> >>> "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >>> news:BxARd.51842$EG1.40065@lakeread04... >>>> It's Anti-Aliasing. I fixed it 2 ways: >>>> >>>> 1. Don't exceed 2xAA. The difference between 2xAA and 4xAA is >>>> astonishing. in how it affects fps. At texas with 2xAA I have 40fps. >>>> With a HIGHER resolution and 2xaa I have over 120fps ! >>>> >>>> 2. I replaced the Radeon 9800Pro with a GeForce 6800GT. It was time >>>> anyway... >>>> >>>> -Larry >> >> What monitor do you run that gives you a refresh rate of 120hz at 16x12? >> >> Mitch >> -- >> Remove "nospam." to reply. >> SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

Cmon Larry, youre a tech arent you? Help-desk script tech meybe ;) <==notice wink. A hertz is a mesurement of frequency or one cycle per second (cps). So if your monitor can do 100 cps at the resolution of 1600x1200 then you cant possibly have a fr of 120. Capeche? The game MAY display a higher FR but as we know thats impossible at that res with your currrent 100hz@16x12 Monitor. Mitch -- Remove "nospam." to reply. SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

Actually, it's not impossible--I routinely see FPS in excess of 120 during some sessions. With VSYNC off, you are not frame rate limited by the monitors refresh rate. I am running an AMD 3200XP with a 6800 GT video card, and FPS that high are not impossible by a long shot.

I think you are missing the point Mitch is making. At least the point I think he is making. If the monitor refreshes the display at 60hz then that is the maximum rate your eyes ever see. Does not matter if the game does 120hz. The monitor display only changes at its refresh rate. So at 120fps and a refresh rate of 60hz, you eyes do not see half the frames the game produces. Norman "Smokin_Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Actually, it's not impossible--I routinely see FPS in excess of 120 > during some sessions. With VSYNC off, you are not frame rate limited > by the monitors refresh rate. I am running an AMD 3200XP with a 6800 > GT video card, and FPS that high are not impossible by a long shot. >

Norman Black wrote:

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> I think you are missing the point Mitch is making. At least the point I > think he is making. If the monitor refreshes the display at 60hz then that > is the maximum rate your eyes ever see. Does not matter if the game does > 120hz. The monitor display only changes at its refresh rate. So at 120fps > and a refresh rate of 60hz, you eyes do not see half the frames the game > produces. > > Norman >

ding ding ding! Winner! :-) Mitch -- Remove "nospam." to reply. SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

Mitch_A wrote:

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> Larry wrote: > > >>Um, not sure what you mean. I said 120fps. >> >>I don't use vsync. >> >>The monitor is capable of 100hz @ 1600X1200 though. It's a 22" DiamandPro >>2060u >> >>-Larry >> >>"Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >>news:9iJRd.1527$[email hidden]... >> >>>Larry wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Correction.... >>>> >>>>Texas >>>> >>>>1280X1024X32 @ 4xAA = 40fps. >>>> >>>>1600X1200X32 @ 2xAA = 120fps plus. >>>> >>>>-Larry >>>> >>>>"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >>>>news:BxARd.51842$EG1.40065@lakeread04... >>>> >>>>>It's Anti-Aliasing. I fixed it 2 ways: >>>>> >>>>>1. Don't exceed 2xAA. The difference between 2xAA and 4xAA is >>>>>astonishing. in how it affects fps. At texas with 2xAA I have 40fps. >>>>>With a HIGHER resolution and 2xaa I have over 120fps ! >>>>> >>>>>2. I replaced the Radeon 9800Pro with a GeForce 6800GT. It was time >>>>>anyway... >>>>> >>>>>-Larry >>> >>>What monitor do you run that gives you a refresh rate of 120hz at 16x12? >>> >>>Mitch >>>-- >>>Remove "nospam." to reply. >>>SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a > > > Cmon Larry, youre a tech arent you? Help-desk script tech meybe ;) > <==notice wink. > > A hertz is a mesurement of frequency or one cycle per second (cps). So if > your monitor can do 100 cps at the resolution of 1600x1200 then you cant > possibly have a fr of 120. Capeche? The game MAY display a higher FR but > as we know thats impossible at that res with your currrent 100hz@16x12 > Monitor. > > Mitch

He's talking "frame rate", not "refresh rate". They are not the same thing!!

JTS wrote: > > He's talking "frame rate", not "refresh rate". They are not the same > thing!! In the context of this thread they can be considered the "same thing"... Hertz is a measurment of cyles per second which in reality is this case is the same as frames per second and the end unit is what you see on your monitor. If your monitor can only support 60hz refresh rate then no matter what CPU, video card, memory, or whatever will ever increase the "scan rate" or "refresh rate" of your 60hz monitor, even though your video card is actually producing those frames just not displying them. Capeche? Mitch SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

Exactly. Unless VSYNC is on, then they can be the same thing--in terms of a 'number'.

Smokin_Bob wrote: > Exactly. Unless VSYNC is on, then they can be the same thing--in terms > of a 'number'. You must be misunderstanding Vsync. Yes it locks your FR to your refresh rate when on. When off the two are not in-sync but that doesnt mean you somehow magically increase your monitors physical refresh rate. That max refresh rate is determined by the monitor model and mfg not by software. If that monitors max refresh rate is say 100hz at 1600X1200 then how do you suppose you can see a higher FR than 100? You cant. As weve said now numerous times the video card may be sending data but you dont see every frame on the monitor because its incapable of refreshing that fast. Based on your logic (term used lightly) then why on earth do we need high refresh rate monitors when we can run ANY refresh rate we want through software by disabling vsync? What are you smokin_bob, should be the question ;) Mitch -- Remove "nospam." to reply. SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

No shit Mitch :) I used to teach component level maintenance on the worlds largest electronic system :) But you are wrong. I can assure you I see in excess of 100fps in many games, including NSR and NR2003. That's why they have the disable vsync button. -Larry "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b9NRd.1381$[email hidden]...

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> Larry wrote: > >> Um, not sure what you mean. I said 120fps. >> >> I don't use vsync. >> >> The monitor is capable of 100hz @ 1600X1200 though. It's a 22" >> DiamandPro >> 2060u >> >> -Larry >> >> "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:9iJRd.1527$[email hidden]... >>> Larry wrote: >>> >>>> Correction.... >>>> >>>> Texas >>>> >>>> 1280X1024X32 @ 4xAA = 40fps. >>>> >>>> 1600X1200X32 @ 2xAA = 120fps plus. >>>> >>>> -Larry >>>> >>>> "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >>>> news:BxARd.51842$EG1.40065@lakeread04... >>>>> It's Anti-Aliasing. I fixed it 2 ways: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Don't exceed 2xAA. The difference between 2xAA and 4xAA is >>>>> astonishing. in how it affects fps. At texas with 2xAA I have 40fps. >>>>> With a HIGHER resolution and 2xaa I have over 120fps ! >>>>> >>>>> 2. I replaced the Radeon 9800Pro with a GeForce 6800GT. It was time >>>>> anyway... >>>>> >>>>> -Larry >>> >>> What monitor do you run that gives you a refresh rate of 120hz at 16x12? >>> >>> Mitch >>> -- >>> Remove "nospam." to reply. >>> SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a > > Cmon Larry, youre a tech arent you? Help-desk script tech meybe ;) > <==notice wink. > > A hertz is a mesurement of frequency or one cycle per second (cps). So if > your monitor can do 100 cps at the resolution of 1600x1200 then you cant > possibly have a fr of 120. Capeche? The game MAY display a higher FR but > as we know thats impossible at that res with your currrent 100hz@16x12 > Monitor. > > Mitch > -- > Remove "nospam." to reply. > SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

It doesn't have to do with just visuals. Sounds are tied to the frame rate in NSR in some ways. Set your display so you have only 8fps (like I originally experienced), sit in the pits not moving, and try to accellerate. You'll see what I mean. Higher frame rates also tend to provide better controller input (at least in perception). You tend to get 'less behind' in your control. -Larry "Norman Black" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:hhRRd.43293$uc.11002@trnddc04...

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>I think you are missing the point Mitch is making. At least the point I >think he is making. If the monitor refreshes the display at 60hz then that >is the maximum rate your eyes ever see. Does not matter if the game does >120hz. The monitor display only changes at its refresh rate. So at 120fps >and a refresh rate of 60hz, you eyes do not see half the frames the game >produces. > > Norman > > "Smokin_Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >> Actually, it's not impossible--I routinely see FPS in excess of 120 >> during some sessions. With VSYNC off, you are not frame rate limited >> by the monitors refresh rate. I am running an AMD 3200XP with a 6800 >> GT video card, and FPS that high are not impossible by a long shot. >> > >

Larry wrote:

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> No shit Mitch :) I used to teach component level maintenance on the > worlds largest electronic system :) > > But you are wrong. I can assure you I see in excess of 100fps in many > games, including NSR and NR2003. > > That's why they have the disable vsync button. > > -Larry

Talk is cheap.... Assure me all you want but tell again how its physically possible to make your CRTs electron gun scan faster than the max refresh rate of said monitor... ?????????????? Maybe some black magic at the driver level makes it APPEAR faster but its not physically going ANY FASTER in hz, cps or fps than your monitors max scan rate. Vsync more of a benchmark utility than anything else. For years Ive just sat back and laughed at all the morons that think vsysnc is some sort of magic frame rate tool. Its not, and on a modern PC that is setup correctly nobody should run vsync as the image quality suffers and you dont gain a thing. Mitch -- Remove "nospam." to reply. SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

Well, I guess no one has ever seen high frame rates before (since most monitors are limited to 85 or 100 hz refresh rate), and every professional benchmarking utility on the market is wrong if it reports a rate higher than your monitors refresh rate. You have your views, I have mine. Such is life. -Larry "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XT3Sd.2118$[email hidden]...

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> Larry wrote: > >> No shit Mitch :) I used to teach component level maintenance on the >> worlds largest electronic system :) >> >> But you are wrong. I can assure you I see in excess of 100fps in many >> games, including NSR and NR2003. >> >> That's why they have the disable vsync button. >> >> -Larry > > Talk is cheap.... > > Assure me all you want but tell again how its physically possible to make > your CRTs electron gun scan faster than the max refresh rate of said > monitor... > > ?????????????? > > Maybe some black magic at the driver level makes it APPEAR faster but its > not physically going ANY FASTER in hz, cps or fps than your monitors max > scan rate. > > Vsync more of a benchmark utility than anything else. For years Ive just > sat back and laughed at all the morons that think vsysnc is some sort of > magic frame rate tool. Its not, and on a modern PC that is setup > correctly > nobody should run vsync as the image quality suffers and you dont gain a > thing. > > > Mitch > -- > Remove "nospam." to reply. > SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

Mitch_A wrote:

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> Larry wrote: > > >>No shit Mitch :) I used to teach component level maintenance on the >>worlds largest electronic system :) >> >>But you are wrong. I can assure you I see in excess of 100fps in many >>games, including NSR and NR2003. >> >>That's why they have the disable vsync button. >> >>-Larry > > > Talk is cheap.... > > Assure me all you want but tell again how its physically possible to make > your CRTs electron gun scan faster than the max refresh rate of said > monitor... > > ?????????????? > > Maybe some black magic at the driver level makes it APPEAR faster but its > not physically going ANY FASTER in hz, cps or fps than your monitors max > scan rate. > > Vsync more of a benchmark utility than anything else. For years Ive just > sat back and laughed at all the morons that think vsysnc is some sort of > magic frame rate tool. Its not, and on a modern PC that is setup correctly > nobody should run vsync as the image quality suffers and you dont gain a > thing. > > > Mitch

Wow, its apparent you dont know what you are talking about. Do you not understand that Vsync is what syncronizes fps with refresh rate? You keep contradicting yourself. FPS has nothing to do with the monitor. You can unplug the monitor and the guy will still have 120 fps. Once you turn on vsync the frame rate is locked to the refresh rate, which keeps partial frames from being drawn. Of course you can have more frames than HZ but its just that they wont all be visually displayed. Vsync is what makes sure every frame is drawn to the max capability of the monitor.

Larry wrote:

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> Well, I guess no one has ever seen high frame rates before (since most > monitors are limited to 85 or 100 hz refresh rate), and every professional > benchmarking utility on the market is wrong if it reports a rate higher > than your monitors refresh rate. > > You have your views, I have mine. Such is life. > > -Larry >

Well I made an argument and supported that argument with facts. Whats facts have you supplied to support your view? Your assurances arent worth anything without any basis in fact. Again Ill ask you to prove to me how you can see a FR higher than your monitors refresh rate? I dont care about "views" I care about fact... Mitch -- Remove "nospam." to reply. SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

fredrickson wrote:

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> Mitch_A wrote: >> Larry wrote: >> >> >>>No shit Mitch :) I used to teach component level maintenance on the >>>worlds largest electronic system :) >>> >>>But you are wrong. I can assure you I see in excess of 100fps in many >>>games, including NSR and NR2003. >>> >>>That's why they have the disable vsync button. >>> >>>-Larry >> >> >> Talk is cheap.... >> >> Assure me all you want but tell again how its physically possible to make >> your CRTs electron gun scan faster than the max refresh rate of said >> monitor... >> >> ?????????????? >> >> Maybe some black magic at the driver level makes it APPEAR faster but its >> not physically going ANY FASTER in hz, cps or fps than your monitors max >> scan rate. >> >> Vsync more of a benchmark utility than anything else. For years Ive just >> sat back and laughed at all the morons that think vsysnc is some sort of >> magic frame rate tool. Its not, and on a modern PC that is setup >> correctly nobody should run vsync as the image quality suffers and you >> dont gain a thing. >> >> >> Mitch > > Wow, its apparent you dont know what you are talking about. Do you not > understand that Vsync is what syncronizes fps with refresh rate? You > keep contradicting yourself. FPS has nothing to do with the monitor. You > can unplug the monitor and the guy will still have 120 fps. Once you > turn on vsync the frame rate is locked to the refresh rate, which keeps > partial frames from being drawn. Of course you can have more frames than > HZ but its just that they wont all be visually displayed. Vsync is what > makes sure every frame is drawn to the max capability of the monitor.

Im sure not going to waste my time trying to teach your sad sack ass anything as your microbrain doesnt have the abiltiy to comprehend even the simplest thoughts let alone something this complicated. Mitch -- Remove "nospam." to reply. SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

So it would seem to be better to turn on VSync on my 18" LCD with a fixed 60hz "refresh" rate to ensure maximum display capability? Is that right?

fredrickson wrote:

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> Mitch_A wrote: >> Larry wrote: >> >> >>>No shit Mitch :) I used to teach component level maintenance on the >>>worlds largest electronic system :) >>> >>>But you are wrong. I can assure you I see in excess of 100fps in many >>>games, including NSR and NR2003. >>> >>>That's why they have the disable vsync button. >>> >>>-Larry >> >> >> Talk is cheap.... >> >> Assure me all you want but tell again how its physically possible to make >> your CRTs electron gun scan faster than the max refresh rate of said >> monitor... >> >> ?????????????? >> >> Maybe some black magic at the driver level makes it APPEAR faster but its >> not physically going ANY FASTER in hz, cps or fps than your monitors max >> scan rate. >> >> Vsync more of a benchmark utility than anything else. For years Ive just >> sat back and laughed at all the morons that think vsysnc is some sort of >> magic frame rate tool. Its not, and on a modern PC that is setup >> correctly nobody should run vsync as the image quality suffers and you >> dont gain a thing. >> >> >> Mitch > > Wow, its apparent you dont know what you are talking about. Do you not > understand that Vsync is what syncronizes fps with refresh rate? You > keep contradicting yourself. FPS has nothing to do with the monitor. You > can unplug the monitor and the guy will still have 120 fps. Once you > turn on vsync the frame rate is locked to the refresh rate, which keeps > partial frames from being drawn. Of course you can have more frames than > HZ but its just that they wont all be visually displayed. Vsync is what > makes sure every frame is drawn to the max capability of the monitor.

Whats really funny here Larry (bakesmith) is youre too stupid to see that you agree with my argument and you dont even see it LOLOLOL.... RETARD! And I quote "Of course you can have more frames than HZ but its just that they wont all be visually displayed." Gee really? Ginkoloba (sp) may be your savior, not! Maybe if you shove your DVI cable up your ass you can bypass a monitor altogether.. Mitch -- Remove "nospam." to reply. SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

My monitor must be broken. I have it set to 85 Hz, but the game is only putting out 12 FPS. There must be something wrong, as we all know it's IMPOSSIBLE to have a FPS different than your monitor refresh rate. Yikes, call the expert here...

Actually, the MOMO Force does not have better feedback. It is also not a better wheel. I have owned both, so I think I can speak with experience here. Any proof, Mitch, of this 'always had better feedback' business? I have been looking for an excuse to get rid of my MOMO and 500 dollar FREX addon, and I think I just found one--your statements about quality!!! Hats off, Mitch. Thanks for all the help.

No it doesnt turn off FFB when you set it to high detail and are using a MOMO force--make sure to put that in your guide, Larry.

Smokin_Bob wrote: > My monitor must be broken. I have it set to 85 Hz, but the game is > only putting out 12 FPS. There must be something wrong, as we all know > it's IMPOSSIBLE to have a FPS different than your monitor refresh rate. > Yikes, call the expert here... If you think thats what Ive ever said you need to either re-read or take a reading comprehension class. I never even mentioned vsync and it has NOTHING to do with my original statement about "what you see" from the monitors perspective in hz. Mitch -- Remove "nospam." to reply. SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

Smokin_Bob wrote: > Actually, the MOMO Force does not have better feedback. It is also not > a better wheel. I have owned both, so I think I can speak with > experience here. Any proof, Mitch, of this 'always had better > feedback' business? I have been looking for an excuse to get rid of my > MOMO and 500 dollar FREX addon, and I think I just found one--your > statements about quality!!! Hats off, Mitch. Thanks for all the help. Dude seriously back to the reading comprehension class with ya. How can you possibly fuck up what I said so badly from one thread to the next??. I never said anything about the Force having better effects, go check again. I also said the Force has better construction, which it DOES amd Im not going to give you a free class on it unless youre willing to meet my pay rate... Ive owned 4-5 of both over the years and currently own 2 Forces and one Racing. I bet Ive given away more of these wheels than youve ever owned... And wth is the $500 addon business all aboout? This actually what I said. "Remember the Momo Racing is NOT a Momo Force.  The Momo Racing has always had better FF effects, or a stonger motor ;)" Mitch -- Remove "nospam." to reply. SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

Larry wrote:

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> It doesn't have to do with just visuals. > > Sounds are tied to the frame rate in NSR in some ways. Set your display > so you have only 8fps (like I originally experienced), sit in the pits not > moving, and try to accellerate. You'll see what I mean. > > Higher frame rates also tend to provide better controller input (at least > in > perception). You tend to get 'less behind' in your control. > > -Larry > > "Norman Black" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:hhRRd.43293$uc.11002@trnddc04... >>I think you are missing the point Mitch is making. At least the point I >>think he is making. If the monitor refreshes the display at 60hz then that >>is the maximum rate your eyes ever see. Does not matter if the game does >>120hz. The monitor display only changes at its refresh rate. So at 120fps >>and a refresh rate of 60hz, you eyes do not see half the frames the game >>produces. >> >> Norman >> >> "Smokin_Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:[email hidden]... >>> Actually, it's not impossible--I routinely see FPS in excess of 120 >>> during some sessions. With VSYNC off, you are not frame rate limited >>> by the monitors refresh rate. I am running an AMD 3200XP with a 6800 >>> GT video card, and FPS that high are not impossible by a long shot. >>> >> >>

Id almost rather be working today ;) I never said your PC isnt creating those high frame rates that you mention its just you have no way of displaying all those frames on your monitor, which is what Ive said all along since the OP. Lets use an example. You have a strip of film 200 frames long but you can only "DISPLAY" 60 of those frames out of the 200 frames youve created. How do YOU select which frame is most accurate to display? With vsync off you cannot pick and choose thus you get graphics anomalies and wildy fluctuating FR and in a racing sim in particular it makes a quality difference. YMMV as everything Ive said is system dependent. I know your systems abilities Larry and you should be running vsync on. Just a suggestion based on common sense instead of internet BS. Mitch -- Remove "nospam." to reply. SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

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> Id almost rather be working today ;) > > I never said your PC isnt creating those high frame rates that you mention > its just you have no way of displaying all those frames on your monitor, > which is what Ive said all along since the OP. > > Lets use an example. You have a strip of film 200 frames long but you can > only "DISPLAY" 60 of those frames out of the 200 frames youve created. How > do YOU select which frame is most accurate to display? With vsync off you > cannot pick and choose thus you get graphics anomalies and wildy > fluctuating FR and in a racing sim in particular it makes a quality > difference. > > YMMV as everything Ive said is system dependent. I know your systems > abilities Larry and you should be running vsync on. Just a suggestion > based on common sense instead of internet BS. > > > Mitch

This guy just loves to pick fights with everyone. Must be trying to make up for something. Anyway, since you espouse reading comprehension so much, maybe you should read Larry's original post and see his point was the difference between 2xAA and 4xAA. If he had vsync on he couldnt have made his point, but that just seems to escape you.

fredrickson spewed his bullshit all over while he finger painted with it: > This guy just loves to pick fights with everyone. Must be trying to make > up for something. Anyway, since you espouse reading comprehension so > much, maybe you should read Larry's original post and see his point was > the difference between 2xAA and 4xAA. If he had vsync on he couldnt have > made his point, but that just seems to escape you. You I fight with Freddy, Larry I discuss with. If I didnt now Larry well I wouldnt say anything at all but he knows our jousting is for fun and weve never had any unresolved issues ever (except maybe that time at dega eh, nevermind hehe). You on the other hand Larry Bakesmith (Fredrickson) are a wrecker with zero driving skills with a horrible network connection and mis-configured PC to boot. You made a direct threat regarding online races then carried out that threat knowing you could get away with it because you could care less whether RASCAR did anything because you dislike us as a group anyway. You would do and say whatever you could to disparage all involved in RASCAR. In many ways your sad sack ass has succeeded. Im not going to give you the pleasure of the details or the how and the whys though, dickhead!... Buh-Bye Freddy, into my new Killfile with that razor dude. Mitch -- Remove "nospam." to reply. SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

If your game is running at a rate higher than the monitor refresh rate you will get tearing. This means that monitor is displaying part of two different frames in the same refresh cycle of the display. If your refresh rate is 60 and your frame rate is > 120 then the display show parts of three frames during the same display update. And so on. Real world example. I was playing Msyt IV and the opening video cut sequence had big time tearing is some places. I thought this was weird since I have a whomping system. It turned out that vsync was forced off. The cut sequence vide might have had a slow frame rate and thus making it easier to see the tearing. You only saw the tearing when the pan rate of the video was high. I changed the option to application preference and the game enabled vsync and no tearing in that sequence was seen. vsync maximizes display quality since you can never have any tearing from one generated frame to another. When your frame rate is quite low relative to the refresh rate then it is possible for vsync to reduce frame rate because of the wait for the next sync cycle. The amount of wait is indeterminate so you just cannot say for sure what will happen in this circumstance. Norman "Darus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > So it would seem to be better to turn on VSync on my 18" LCD with a > fixed 60hz "refresh" rate to ensure maximum display capability? Is that > right? >

Hey Expert-- What color is the MOMO Force wheel? What color is the MOMO Racing wheel? Given away more than I have ever owned? How can I fuck it up?--maybe I am color blind and mixed them up that way--but you are full of shit--You have not given away more wheels than I ever will own, for one thing. If you truly knew anything about it, You would immediately know what the FREX is all about. Know it alls such as yourself already know everything so imagine my surprise when you didnt know this. Wow, youre really hardcore. 4-5 wheels over the years. I have four I am not using right now. I can't count the number of wheels I have owned, but I am sure whatever the number is, it's one less than yours. The MOMO RED WHEEL or the FORCE as it is known, is much better than the MOMO RACING BLACK WHEEL. THAT IS WHAT I MEANT--I HAVE THE RED WHEEL. I had the RACING WHEEL, YOU KNOW-THE BLACK ONE, and it was no where near the FFB of the RED FORCE one--so I disagree with you there. Always has been and always will be--take that black one apart and tell me it's 'better'. Its the same cheap shit electronics as the next wheel. And if you are not getting any feedback in NSR with your RED MOMO, then I guess you don't know how to set it up, huh?? Do some research on the FREX and you might actually learn how to make these things better. Mitch_A wrote: > Dude seriously back to the reading comprehension class with ya. Howcan you > possibly fuck up what I said so badly from one thread to the next??.I > never said anything about the Force having better effects, go checkagain. > I also said the Force has better construction, which it DOES amd Imnot > going to give you a free class on it unless youre willing to meet mypay > rate... > > Ive owned 4-5 of both over the years and currently own 2 Forces andone > Racing. > > I bet Ive given away more of these wheels than youve ever owned...And wth > is the $500 addon business all aboout? > > This actually what I said. > > "Remember the Momo Racing is NOT a MomoForce. The Momo Racing has always

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> had better FF effects, or a stonger motor ;)" > > > Mitch > -- > Remove "nospam." to reply. > SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

Smokin_Bob wrote:

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> Hey Expert-- > > What color is the MOMO Force wheel? What color is the MOMO Racing > wheel? Given away more than I have ever owned? How can I fuck it > up?--maybe I am color blind and mixed them up that way--but you are > full of shit--You have not given away more wheels than I ever will own, > for one thing. If you truly knew anything about it, You would > immediately know what the FREX is all about. Know it alls such as > yourself already know everything so imagine my surprise when you didnt > know this. > > Wow, youre really hardcore. 4-5 wheels over the years. I have four I am > not using right now. I can't count the number of wheels I have owned, > but I am sure whatever the number is, it's one less than yours. > > The MOMO RED WHEEL or the FORCE as it is known, is much better than the > MOMO RACING BLACK WHEEL. THAT IS WHAT I MEANT--I HAVE THE RED WHEEL. I > had the RACING WHEEL, YOU KNOW-THE BLACK ONE, and it was no where near > the FFB of the RED FORCE one--so I disagree with you there. Always has > been and always will be--take that black one apart and tell me it's > 'better'. Its the same cheap shit electronics as the next wheel. And > if you are not getting any feedback in NSR with your RED MOMO, then I > guess you don't know how to set it up, huh?? > > Do some research on the FREX and you might actually learn how to make > these things better. > > > > Mitch_A wrote: > >> Dude seriously back to the reading comprehension class with ya. How > can you >> possibly fuck up what I said so badly from one thread to the next??. > I >> never said anything about the Force having better effects, go check > again. >> I also said the Force has better construction, which it DOES amd Im > not >> going to give you a free class on it unless youre willing to meet my > pay >> rate... >> >> Ive owned 4-5 of both over the years and currently own 2 Forces and > one >> Racing. >> >> I bet Ive given away more of these wheels than youve ever owned... > And wth >> is the $500 addon business all aboout? >> >> This actually what I said. >> >> "Remember the Momo Racing is NOT a Momo > Force. The Momo Racing has always >> had better FF effects, or a stonger motor ;)" >> >> >> Mitch >> -- >> Remove "nospam." to reply. >> SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

To quote you Bob, "THAT IS WHAT I MEANT". Because you were obviously too dumb to comprehend what I **ACTUALLY** said so you hid the correction about as well as the NYT or LA Times hid RatherGATE... Bob, either: A. Learn to fucking comprehend what you attempt to read or... B. Lay off the fucking pot you stoner... Till then stfu as you only make yourself look more stupid as you continue this thread needlessly... I get plenty of effects with NSR. This was what, within the 24hrs of release I had an issue and youre somehow trying to use this as an example of something?? PS I know what a Frex wheel is I just dont know how that became any part of this thread. This was your doing not mine. BTW I use ECCI 6000 Pedals which blow away the frex pedals. Another correction is that Ive owned a total of 6 Momo Wheels and currently own 3. This isnt to say Ive owned about 15 other wheels since the original Thrustmaster Formuala T1 (blue anodized version) in 93'. GAWD..... Dont even bother with a reply. Im tired of having to explain the SAME FUCKING THING 9 GADDAMN TIMES... Mitch -- Remove "nospam." to reply. SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

> Dont even bother with a reply. Im tired of having to explain the SAME > FUCKING THING 9 GADDAMN TIMES... > > Mitch Maybe if you learned to write correctly people wouldnt have such a hard time understanding you

He gave one to me. So stfu! Sheesh..... Tim "Smokin_Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Hey Expert-- > > What color is the MOMO Force wheel? What color is the MOMO Racing > wheel? Given away more than I have ever owned? How can I fuck it > up?--maybe I am color blind and mixed them up that way--but you are > full of shit--You have not given away more wheels than I ever will own, > for one thing. If you truly knew anything about it, You would > immediately know what the FREX is all about. Know it alls such as > yourself already know everything so imagine my surprise when you didnt > know this. > > Wow, youre really hardcore. 4-5 wheels over the years. I have four I am > not using right now. I can't count the number of wheels I have owned, > but I am sure whatever the number is, it's one less than yours. > > The MOMO RED WHEEL or the FORCE as it is known, is much better than the > MOMO RACING BLACK WHEEL. THAT IS WHAT I MEANT--I HAVE THE RED WHEEL. I > had the RACING WHEEL, YOU KNOW-THE BLACK ONE, and it was no where near > the FFB of the RED FORCE one--so I disagree with you there. Always has > been and always will be--take that black one apart and tell me it's > 'better'. Its the same cheap shit electronics as the next wheel. And > if you are not getting any feedback in NSR with your RED MOMO, then I > guess you don't know how to set it up, huh?? > > Do some research on the FREX and you might actually learn how to make > these things better. > > > > Mitch_A wrote: > >> Dude seriously back to the reading comprehension class with ya. How > can you >> possibly fuck up what I said so badly from one thread to the next??. > I >> never said anything about the Force having better effects, go check > again. >> I also said the Force has better construction, which it DOES amd Im > not >> going to give you a free class on it unless youre willing to meet my > pay >> rate... >> >> Ive owned 4-5 of both over the years and currently own 2 Forces and > one >> Racing. >> >> I bet Ive given away more of these wheels than youve ever owned... > And wth >> is the $500 addon business all aboout? >> >> This actually what I said. >> >> "Remember the Momo Racing is NOT a Momo > Force. The Momo Racing has always >> had better FF effects, or a stonger motor ;)" >> >> >> Mitch >> -- >> Remove "nospam." to reply. >> SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a >