Re: GP3 opponent sounds (or lack of)

Even when your own engine is mare inches from ur ears ? I personally dont think you would hear the other cars. G rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sun, 23 Jul 2000 16:00:15 +0100, Gary Brown<[email hidden]> wrote:

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> > >Somebody here with more knowledge can correct me I am sure, but if I > >have an 800hp monster 12 inches behind my head, would I actually hear > >anything else passing me? Particularly as I am wearing a crash helmet? > > > >Personally, I'd have thought not. > > > > I can tell you that sitting 10 feet from the cars on a turn during the > 1990 U.S. GP at Phoenix, you can definitely hear/feel (far) more > cars than the single car which is screaming by in front of you. > > With earplugs.. :) >

> Somebody here with more knowledge can correct me I am sure, but if I > have an 800hp monster 12 inches behind my head, would I actually hear > anything else passing me? Particularly as I am wearing a crash helmet? > > Personally, I'd have thought not. I think there was a debate here on r.a.s. after the release of GP2 about that and i remember someone said that after his accident ( Suzuka i think ) with D. Hill G. Berger said that this was the first time he could acctually hear another car!!?? However, if you can't hear other cars there's no way you could be able to hear tyre squeal ( but that's probably in the game for better feedback ). Borut

Find video GP3_21 from the german NBC review. You can hear the other car very clearly.

Somebody here with more knowledge can correct me I am sure, but if I have an 800hp monster 12 inches behind my head, would I actually hear anything else passing me? Particularly as I am wearing a crash helmet? Personally, I'd have thought not. [email hidden]

I agree, you probably can't hear much beyond your own engine in real life. But if they add tire skid noise to help assist the gamer in having a better sense of what is going on around them would it also not make sense to add other cars as they come by the left and right of you? And - if you run out of gas and your engine no longer is shreeking at 800hp should you hear other cars then? Gary Brown <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Somebody here with more knowledge can correct me I am sure, but if I > have an 800hp monster 12 inches behind my head, would I actually hear > anything else passing me? Particularly as I am wearing a crash helmet? > > Personally, I'd have thought not. > > > > [email hidden]

Strange question. Sure you can, if there are more than you're own 800hp monster on the track. (Well, at least the cars driving in front of you...) -Thorsten Rueter Gary Brown <[email hidden]> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag: [email hidden]...

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> Somebody here with more knowledge can correct me I am sure, but if I > have an 800hp monster 12 inches behind my head, would I actually hear > anything else passing me? Particularly as I am wearing a crash helmet? > > Personally, I'd have thought not. > > > > [email hidden]

In replay u can hear other cars in some cases i think, u also hear other cars when u r in the pits. Martyn_D R4 wrote: > Find video GP3_21 from the german NBC review. You can hear the other car > very clearly.

Gary Brown <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Somebody here with more knowledge can correct me I am sure, but if I > have an 800hp monster 12 inches behind my head, would I actually hear > anything else passing me? Particularly as I am wearing a crash helmet? > > Personally, I'd have thought not. I agree.... You don't hear them IMO. Heck, I only drive a we little Pro-kart and I can't heard 2-strokes coming from behind until they are directly along side me.... I doubt you can hear another F1 car with 800bhp roaring under your arse.

"Gary Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Somebody here with more knowledge can correct me I am sure, but if I > have an 800hp monster 12 inches behind my head, would I actually hear > anything else passing me? Particularly as I am wearing a crash helmet? > > Personally, I'd have thought not. I remember hearing an interview with Mika Hakkinen a few years ago where he said that it was impossible to hear an opponents engine. This was after a rival (I forget who) that Hakkinen was dicing with developed an engine problem, and the interviewer was trying to determine whether Hakkinen was aware of this fact. Hakkinen said that because of the noise of his own engine, it was impossible for him to hear anything from the other car. (And also because he had earplugs, a balaclava, and a crash helmet I presume). What he did say however, was that he was able to SMELL the other car, which he was following, after it developed the problem. But I think it will be a few years before we can buy "3D smell accelerators". :) If GP3 had the sound of other cars passing, it would therefore be an arcade element. Johnny.

Johnny Moda wrote: > > I remember hearing an interview with Mika Hakkinen a few years ago where he > said that it was impossible to hear an opponents engine. This was after a > rival (I forget who) that Hakkinen was dicing with developed an engine > problem, and the interviewer was trying to determine whether Hakkinen was > aware of this fact. Well I remember from Hockenheim in 96 (I think that was the year..), when a few laps from the end Berger was leading ahead of Damon Hill, and Berger's engine blew up. In the post race interview Damon said he could hear the engine going bad and for a moment wondered if it was his own or Berger's engine (both were using Renault engines remember), until he could see the smoke. -- Arne Martin

On Sun, 23 Jul 2000 19:26:01 +0100, "G-Man" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Even when your own engine is mare inches from ur ears ? > >I personally dont think you would hear the other cars. Maybe not, but it wouldn't be *complete* silence either. Someone else just pointed out that you wouldn't hear the squeeling tires either, but they are there to give some feedback. Well, the same is true of hearing the AI cars. In MGPRS2 I can tell when a car is coming up behind me on the left or right (need 4 speaker system. I let the fact there was no AI cars sounds in GP2 go, but not this time around. -- Nos

In article <8lk9k8$s69$[email hidden]>, "Bj�rn Nyhl�n" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>> However, when I was at full RPM near the end of a run, going close to >> 200mph, if the other guy started pulling even with me I could hear it >> due to a phenomemon known as a "beat frequency". Basically, since we >> would not be running at the same RPM, the sounds of our engines were at >> slightly different frequencies. As the frequencies alternately added to >> and subtracted from each other, I would hear sort of a "whoo-whoo-whoo" >> pulsing in the sound that told me that we were running very close. >> >> I would bet that this occurs for most other types of race cars, and >> that the drivers can hear it. In fact, I think that GPL models this >> effect (?) when you're passing someone on a long straight. >> >> Doug Gordon > >I don't know what the effect is called in english but when when you add two >sine waves of different freq. the resulting amplitude would vary with a >freq. equal to the difference of the freqs. of the two sine waves. This >effect doesn't need to be simulated as it will occur when ever you play two >freqs at the same time. >

It's called "phase shifting"... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +69.95 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, Gary Brown <[email hidden]> writes: >I hate to give more ammo to the GP3 haters here, but the sounds of >other cars screaming past the pits are false. I have never yet driven >out of the pits to see a car I heard 2 seconds before going past me. >They are there for atmosphere only. > Same thing happens in F1 2K... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +69.95 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"Doug Gordon" <[email hidden]> skrev i meddelandet news:8lk5rl$jan$[email hidden]...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] wrote: > > Somebody here with more knowledge can correct me I am sure, but if I > > have an 800hp monster 12 inches behind my head, would I actually hear > > anything else passing me? Particularly as I am wearing a crash helmet? > > > > Personally, I'd have thought not. > > > > [email hidden] > > > > Let me add some experience here. I used to drive an injected fuel > dragster (25 years ago), which as you know is a rather *loud* machine. > Normally, I would not be able to hear the other car since, as you > pointed out, I also had about 800 hp 12" behind my head. > > However, when I was at full RPM near the end of a run, going close to > 200mph, if the other guy started pulling even with me I could hear it > due to a phenomemon known as a "beat frequency". Basically, since we > would not be running at the same RPM, the sounds of our engines were at > slightly different frequencies. As the frequencies alternately added to > and subtracted from each other, I would hear sort of a "whoo-whoo-whoo" > pulsing in the sound that told me that we were running very close. > > I would bet that this occurs for most other types of race cars, and > that the drivers can hear it. In fact, I think that GPL models this > effect (?) when you're passing someone on a long straight. > > Doug Gordon

I don't know what the effect is called in english but when when you add two sine waves of different freq. the resulting amplitude would vary with a freq. equal to the difference of the freqs. of the two sine waves. This effect doesn't need to be simulated as it will occur when ever you play two freqs at the same time. -Bj�rn

"Doug Gordon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8lk5rl$jan$[email hidden]...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] wrote: > > Somebody here with more knowledge can correct me I am sure, but if I > > have an 800hp monster 12 inches behind my head, would I actually hear > > anything else passing me? Particularly as I am wearing a crash helmet? > > > > Personally, I'd have thought not. > > > > [email hidden] > > > > Let me add some experience here. I used to drive an injected fuel > dragster (25 years ago), which as you know is a rather *loud* machine. > Normally, I would not be able to hear the other car since, as you > pointed out, I also had about 800 hp 12" behind my head. > > However, when I was at full RPM near the end of a run, going close to > 200mph, if the other guy started pulling even with me I could hear it > due to a phenomemon known as a "beat frequency". Basically, since we > would not be running at the same RPM, the sounds of our engines were at > slightly different frequencies. As the frequencies alternately added to > and subtracted from each other, I would hear sort of a "whoo-whoo-whoo" > pulsing in the sound that told me that we were running very close. > > I would bet that this occurs for most other types of race cars, and > that the drivers can hear it. In fact, I think that GPL models this > effect (?) when you're passing someone on a long straight. > > Doug Gordon >

You don't need to "model" the effect, per se, you just have to play the engine sounds of each car at the appropriate frequency for their road speed and gear, and the "beat frequency" happens. Same with two musical instruments out of tune. So, I guess it is more accurate to say that GPL plays the appropriate engine frequency for the opponent's road speed... Stephen

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] wrote:

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> Somebody here with more knowledge can correct me I am sure, but if I > have an 800hp monster 12 inches behind my head, would I actually hear > anything else passing me? Particularly as I am wearing a crash helmet? > > Personally, I'd have thought not. > > [email hidden] >

Let me add some experience here. I used to drive an injected fuel dragster (25 years ago), which as you know is a rather *loud* machine. Normally, I would not be able to hear the other car since, as you pointed out, I also had about 800 hp 12" behind my head. However, when I was at full RPM near the end of a run, going close to 200mph, if the other guy started pulling even with me I could hear it due to a phenomemon known as a "beat frequency". Basically, since we would not be running at the same RPM, the sounds of our engines were at slightly different frequencies. As the frequencies alternately added to and subtracted from each other, I would hear sort of a "whoo-whoo-whoo" pulsing in the sound that told me that we were running very close. I would bet that this occurs for most other types of race cars, and that the drivers can hear it. In fact, I think that GPL models this effect (?) when you're passing someone on a long straight. Doug Gordon Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

On Sun, 23 Jul 2000 19:09:53 GMT, SKurj <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>In replay u can hear other cars in some cases i think, u also hear other >cars when u r in the pits. > >Martyn_D > >R4 wrote: > >> Find video GP3_21 from the german NBC review. You can hear the other car >> very clearly.

I hate to give more ammo to the GP3 haters here, but the sounds of other cars screaming past the pits are false. I have never yet driven out of the pits to see a car I heard 2 seconds before going past me. They are there for atmosphere only. Geoff has clearly taken a number of shortcuts with the game, but for me they don't detract from it's great overall playability. [email hidden]

Many F1 drivers have said in the past that, in very wet conditions, they had to rely on the sound of the guy(s) ahead to know where they were. But isn't it academic? We're talking a sim/game here. We NEED to hear the other cars. ----------------------------------------------------------- Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Craig Jones <[email hidden]> wrote: : Many F1 drivers have said in the past that, in very wet : conditions, they had to rely on the sound of the guy(s) ahead to : know where they were. I've never heard that said. What I have heard is Damon Hill said of one particular close encounter on track (I forget which) "It's the first time I've heard another competitor's engine during a race since my motor bike racing days". On the other hand, I've heard racers from the 80s say that they were fast in the wet because they listened for when the other driver backed off and backed off later. Perhaps the situation has changed from 80s - 90s? -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York UPDATED WWW: http://manor.york.ac.uk/

Exactly Craig, for the game/sim experience, we need the sounds, but, will likely never gettem.. Martyn_D Craig Jones wrote:

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> Many F1 drivers have said in the past that, in very wet > conditions, they had to rely on the sound of the guy(s) ahead to > know where they were. > > But isn't it academic? We're talking a sim/game here. We NEED to > hear the other cars. > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. > Up to 100 minutes free! > http://www.keen.com

In article <[email hidden]>, Gary Brown <[email hidden]> writes

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>On Sun, 23 Jul 2000 19:09:53 GMT, SKurj <[email hidden]> wrote: > >>In replay u can hear other cars in some cases i think, u also hear other >>cars when u r in the pits. >> >>Martyn_D >> >>R4 wrote: >> >>> Find video GP3_21 from the german NBC review. You can hear the other >car >>> very clearly. > > >I hate to give more ammo to the GP3 haters here, but the sounds of >other cars screaming past the pits are false. I have never yet driven >out of the pits to see a car I heard 2 seconds before going past me. >They are there for atmosphere only. >

Funny? That was the same in GP2 also. I'm in shock!! Actually, it's not a major flaw though, but used to be just a minor niggle for me, knowing full well that all those cars rushing past the pits weren't really happening. -- Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) No person's opinions can be said to be more correct than another's, because each is the sole judge of his or her own experience.

I also remember reading an interview with David Coulthard about driving in the rain. He said that when behind another car in the rain, naturally you can't see anything so he listens to the engine of the car ahead as to when to downshift for corners etc. ----------------------------------------------------------- Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Ives <[email hidden]> writes: >>I haven't seen my other post on this... The same thing happens in F1 2K... >> >>Eldred > >Here it is Eldred. :) > Uh, THANKS. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +69.95 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Ives <[email hidden]> writes:

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>>I hate to give more ammo to the GP3 haters here, but the sounds of >>other cars screaming past the pits are false. I have never yet driven >>out of the pits to see a car I heard 2 seconds before going past me. >>They are there for atmosphere only. >> > >Funny? That was the same in GP2 also. I'm in shock!! Actually, it's >not a major flaw though, but used to be just a minor niggle for me, >knowing full well that all those cars rushing past the pits weren't >really happening.

I haven't seen my other post on this... The same thing happens in F1 2K... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +69.95 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, EldredP <[email hidden]> writes

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>In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Ives ><[email hidden]> writes: > >>>I hate to give more ammo to the GP3 haters here, but the sounds of >>>other cars screaming past the pits are false. I have never yet driven >>>out of the pits to see a car I heard 2 seconds before going past me. >>>They are there for atmosphere only. >>> >> >>Funny? That was the same in GP2 also. I'm in shock!! Actually, it's >>not a major flaw though, but used to be just a minor niggle for me, >>knowing full well that all those cars rushing past the pits weren't >>really happening. > >I haven't seen my other post on this... The same thing happens in F1 2K... > >Eldred

Here it is Eldred. :) >I hate to give more ammo to the GP3 haters here, but the sounds of >other cars screaming past the pits are false. I have never yet driven >out of the pits to see a car I heard 2 seconds before going past me. >They are there for atmosphere only. > Same thing happens in F1 2K... -- Peter Ives Remove ALL_STRESS before replying