Re: GP3: Like pigs at a feeding trough.

Bruce Kennewell wrote: > > In all the years that I have been posting to RAS I have never been so amazed > at the behaviour of some as I have been over the past several days.snip > > I, for one, have nothing but contempt for the morals and behaviour of some > who have posted here over the last week. I feel as if I've trodden in > something rather nasty. Well said! Not to mention the security with which some of those 10 year olds are dissing the sim already... -- l8er ronny Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change to take effect. Reboot now? |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

In article <[email hidden]>, "T.Galvin" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>> F12000 started what will now become a "warez habit"......no doubt releases >> of NASCAR Heat, N4, WSC, and other anticipated sim releases will bring >> similar activity here. RAS has descended to the same level as any porn >> newsgroup on the 'net. > >So you have never had a warez copy of anything on your hard drive Bruce ? >Not even GPL? I seem to recall GPL posts from you prier to its release. > >Todd.

GPL had a demo... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +70.45 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Give it a rest Chris... we've already determined it's not that bad and some people will be able to enjoy it. If you're one of them then good for you. Jan. =--- Chris Bloom wrote...

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> Nicely put Bruce. I wonder if all those who have downloaded the > Warez version had been forced to buy GP3 they would be so quick > to point out the negative aspects. I'm sure they would be more > inclined to appreciate the positive features of what I still > believe will be a great sim. > > Chris

On Sun, 23 Jul 2000 01:00:02 -0700, Chris Bloom <[email hidden]> wrote: >Nicely put Bruce. I wonder if all those who have downloaded the >Warez version had been forced to buy GP3 they would be so quick >to point out the negative aspects. I'm sure they would be more >inclined to appreciate the positive features of what I still >believe will be a great sim. Those who liked it woud like it, those who didn't would be even more hacked off that they had been duped into paying �30 for GP2 all over again. If magazine's and websites won't be honest (they're not) and the company won't give you a demo to test drive, realistically I don't think anything else can be reasonably expected. You drive a car before you buy it, you listen to music before you buy it, you watch a trailer before buying a movie. In this industry if no demo exists it's generally because the developer doesn't want you to know the game is horrible. So ingenuity finds a way - that's human nature, and it's why we have computer at all. John

Take it out on the people who leak the software in the first place Bruce. For me it was just another weapon in my struggle against Crammond idolisation. ;-) Jan. =--- Bruce Kennewell wrote... > <snip>

On Sun, 23 Jul 2000 18:00:35 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Peddle that message at a warez convention, John, to the already-converted. >That's where it belongs. You advocate preaching only to the converted? Pray then practice what you preach and save the sermonising for where it belongs. >And if you can't stand the the high moral ground then stay down in the mud >with the rest of the herd. High ground or mud, black or white? I had expected rather better from you than the typical r.a.s. polarisation. John

"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In all the years that I have been posting to RAS I have never been soamazed > at the behaviour of some as I have been over the past several days. > > Taking a step back and reading the subject headers gives the impression ofa

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> hoard of hungry pigs all vying to get their snouts into the slop. From my > vantage point it's a disgusting sight. > > F12000 started what will now become a "warez habit"......no doubt releases > of NASCAR Heat, N4, WSC, and other anticipated sim releases will bring > similar activity here. RAS has descended to the same level as any porn > newsgroup on the 'net.

So you have never had a warez copy of anything on your hard drive Bruce ? Not even GPL? I seem to recall GPL posts from you prier to its release. Todd.

Personally I'm feeling more than a tad queasy from all the right-on moralising - Sherpa Tensing couldn't help people onto any higher moral ground than has been seen here. Warez helps people try software prior to purchase - some buy it who wouldn't otherwise, others don't buy it who perhaps would.. Those numbers will even out, but if the product is good you should benefit. The ones with the warez habit wouldn't buy any game anyway, so what's lost? I don't think it applies to anyone here, and I don't think there's any new angle left with which to denounce, so can we all take a break from the war of words? I don't think my stomach can take much more. John On Sun, 23 Jul 2000 08:46:27 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>In all the years that I have been posting to RAS I have never been so amazed >at the behaviour of some as I have been over the past several days. > >Taking a step back and reading the subject headers gives the impression of a >hoard of hungry pigs all vying to get their snouts into the slop. From my >vantage point it's a disgusting sight. > >F12000 started what will now become a "warez habit"......no doubt releases >of NASCAR Heat, N4, WSC, and other anticipated sim releases will bring >similar activity here. RAS has descended to the same level as any porn >newsgroup on the 'net. > >I really and sincerely hope that the publishers note and take full advantage >of this shameful behaviour and deliberately feed defective, pre-release beta >gold CDs into the warez "system" so that those bottom-feeders who devour >this type of stuff will choke on it. > >I, for one, have nothing but contempt for the morals and behaviour of some >who have posted here over the last week. I feel as if I've trodden in >something rather nasty.

Thank you!! I felt the exact same way when this started with F1 2000. And now people are doing the same thing with GP3, only in larger numbers. Pretty soon the game companies may decide that it's better to cut costs altogether, and produce more $19.95 specials like the deer hunter games. Wether or not you agree with the way companies like Hasbro/Microprose do things, like rushing the product out before it's done(I guess no one would really agree with that). It doesn't change the fact that downloading a warez version of the game is still wrong, and still stealing. just my opinion

I agree. The only genuine argument the anti-warez people could put is that some of the people who have downloaded won't buy it because it doesn't meet their expectations. That's fair enough, but there are plenty of people who have downloaded it and will now buy it. Isn't that fair enough if Microprose won't do a demo? About warez in general, how much sympathy can you have for the industry as a whole when it consistently churns out so much mediocre rubbish, or when it produces so many blatant copies of other games. Also I know for a fact that many companies literally bribe reviewers. And we all know about countless games that are released bug-ridden and unfinished. Given this sort of attitude from the majority of the industry it's no wonder people resort to warez rather than get ripped off. I've got piles and piles of original full priced games which weren't worth the money, yet got 90+ reviews.

did someone say porn? oh, guess it was just another fascist lumping everything he deems morally wrong together in the same concentration camp.... HEY - you killed my PCXL!!! Bruce Kennewell <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In all the years that I have been posting to RAS I have never been soamazed > at the behaviour of some as I have been over the past several days. > > Taking a step back and reading the subject headers gives the impression ofa

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> hoard of hungry pigs all vying to get their snouts into the slop. From my > vantage point it's a disgusting sight. > > F12000 started what will now become a "warez habit"......no doubt releases > of NASCAR Heat, N4, WSC, and other anticipated sim releases will bring > similar activity here. RAS has descended to the same level as any porn > newsgroup on the 'net. > > I really and sincerely hope that the publishers note and take full

advantage > of this shameful behaviour and deliberately feed defective, pre-releasebeta

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> gold CDs into the warez "system" so that those bottom-feeders who devour > this type of stuff will choke on it. > > I, for one, have nothing but contempt for the morals and behaviour of some > who have posted here over the last week. I feel as if I've trodden in > something rather nasty. > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. > --------------------------- > > >

Nah..............besides, if GP3 is going to be like the warez version and you don't know about it, you and others will get pissed when GP3 is out; you are expecting a F1 sim of all sim. In short, from what I read (I don't have DSL yet or cable so I couldn't try out the game), GP3 is GP2 updated. Worst, hypes surrounding this game are so much that people have been brainwashed into believing GP3 is the F1 sim of all sims. The best thing is to come out with a demo. If it isn't for the warez version to slap people in the face so that they can think for a moment about this game, everyone would flock to their local EB and to buy GP3. There, you have just wasted $45 for an updated to GP2. Yet, you make the publishers and the developers richer. 4 years into the development but to release an update for GP2. :-) "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In all the years that I have been posting to RAS I have never been so amazed > at the behaviour of some as I have been over the past several days. > > Taking a step back and reading the subject headers gives the impression of a > hoard of hungry pigs all vying to get their snouts into the slop. From my > vantage point it's a disgusting sight. > > F12000 started what will now become a "warez habit"......no doubt releases > of NASCAR Heat, N4, WSC, and other anticipated sim releases will bring > similar activity here. RAS has descended to the same level as any porn > newsgroup on the 'net. > > I really and sincerely hope that the publishers note and take full advantage > of this shameful behaviour and deliberately feed defective, pre-release beta > gold CDs into the warez "system" so that those bottom-feeders who devour > this type of stuff will choke on it. > > I, for one, have nothing but contempt for the morals and behaviour of some > who have posted here over the last week. I feel as if I've trodden in > something rather nasty. > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. > --------------------------- > > >

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>> I, for one, have nothing but contempt for the morals and behaviour of some >> who have posted here over the last week. I feel as if I've trodden in >> something rather nasty. >> -- >> Regards, >> Bruce Kennewell, >> Canberra, Australia. >> --------------------------- >> >> >> >

Chill out, man. It's a newsgroup about racing games on the computer. Don't equate it with a sanctuary where only the most blessed, most purest of souls gather to discuss everything that is good and right.

I have only today been able to find RAS after several days of being unable to get on; (another "up-grade" from my local shop, right? Actually, it may be OK, as I went from NetNav 3.1 to 4.7, if that is the correct nomenclature!) I have missed the messages which have aroused such indignation. I know little to nothing about "warez"; when I first saw it I figured it was someone who had paid scant attention to the possibility of learning something in school making a failed attempt to spell "Juarez", the town in Old Mexico adjacent to El Paso, Texas. When I was an army boy in the '50's at White Sands PG in New Mexico you could call something a "Juarez Special" and that pretty much meant crappy quality. I guess there is a close connection with "warez" in that regard, after all these 44 years! That said, I think that rights to any intellectual property should be protected; meaning to access a "warez" ("Juarez" ?) copy is to receive stolen property, pure and simple. I, too, have bought some stinkers, and it really burned my can to have wasted my money.HOWEVER, I do NOT think that entitles me to have a cheater copy of any new game which may interest me. How many sims would we have , good or bad, if the developers simply gave up on the idea of bringing out new ones because so many prospective purchasers would simply take down a cheater copy? Would Kammerer, Crammond and the West Brothers have any incentive to continue working feverishly to satisfy fanatics like those of us who post to this NG? Certainly the companies have released some real dogs, but I seriously doubt they began with the idea of releasing a real dozer on us unsuspecting simmers, getting rich while we fume and rant! It reminds me very much of the MP3 controversy. It would take either a very big and threatening man, or else a gorgeous semi-naked babe to get me to listen to ANYTHING by "Metallica", but that guy's "music" should not be available to anyone who hasn't bought a CD or tape, or attended a concert, or listened to an advertiser-supported radio station. MY not-very-humble opinion! :-)) Glen Priest * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

may he who has never used winzip past its 30 day shareware limit cast the first stone. oh, and I bet you don't know what napster either? Bruce Kennewell <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In all the years that I have been posting to RAS I have never been soamazed > at the behaviour of some as I have been over the past several days. > > Taking a step back and reading the subject headers gives the impression ofa

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> hoard of hungry pigs all vying to get their snouts into the slop. From my > vantage point it's a disgusting sight. > > F12000 started what will now become a "warez habit"......no doubt releases > of NASCAR Heat, N4, WSC, and other anticipated sim releases will bring > similar activity here. RAS has descended to the same level as any porn > newsgroup on the 'net. > > I really and sincerely hope that the publishers note and take full

advantage > of this shameful behaviour and deliberately feed defective, pre-releasebeta

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> gold CDs into the warez "system" so that those bottom-feeders who devour > this type of stuff will choke on it. > > I, for one, have nothing but contempt for the morals and behaviour of some > who have posted here over the last week. I feel as if I've trodden in > something rather nasty. > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. > --------------------------- > > >

Nicely put Bruce. I wonder if all those who have downloaded the Warez version had been forced to buy GP3 they would be so quick to point out the negative aspects. I'm sure they would be more inclined to appreciate the positive features of what I still believe will be a great sim. Chris ----------------------------------------------------------- Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Well said. -- Todd S. Life - Sexually transmitted, Always fatal "Senninha" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sun, 23 Jul 2000 01:00:02 -0700, Chris Bloom > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Nicely put Bruce. I wonder if all those who have downloaded the > >Warez version had been forced to buy GP3 they would be so quick > >to point out the negative aspects. I'm sure they would be more > >inclined to appreciate the positive features of what I still > >believe will be a great sim. > > Those who liked it woud like it, those who didn't would be even more > hacked off that they had been duped into paying �30 for GP2 all over > again. > > If magazine's and websites won't be honest (they're not) and the > company won't give you a demo to test drive, realistically I don't > think anything else can be reasonably expected. You drive a car before > you buy it, you listen to music before you buy it, you watch a trailer > before buying a movie. In this industry if no demo exists it's > generally because the developer doesn't want you to know the game is > horrible. So ingenuity finds a way - that's human nature, and it's why > we have computer at all. > > John

> > Warez helps people try software prior to purchase - some buy it who > wouldn't otherwise, others don't buy it who perhaps would.. Bullshit. Definition of theft - To procure goods or property with intent to permanently deprive the legal owner. Warez is simple theft, or in the hands of somebody who has downloaded it from a site, reciept of stolen goods. Sure, people can try warez products to see if they would like the product or not. In the same manner, I could go and steal a chocolate bar from the local shop before I decide whether I like the taste or not and whether I will buy more of the same. No matter what play on words people like to go with, once one's hands are soiled with the "swag", curiosity is no justification for committing the initial act of theft. LOL. Sorry M'lud, I ripped off this software because I wanted to know if it was any good or not before I bought it. People have of late, taken great pleasure in lambasting British football hooligans and branding all British football supporters with the same iron. For every hooligan there are ten England fans who are decent hardworking and genuine sporting fans. These people are branded as the scum of Europe because they travel on the same planes, share the same hotels and stand on the same terraces as their lowlife counterparts. In the same manner, all gamers (or all other software users come to that) are branded as potential thieves because of the warez supporting people amongst them. This is why we see CD protection and other measures implemented. For every 10 persons who download a warez game (to evaluate) and deletes it, rest assured that there will be at least 1 who will keep it on their hard disk. (If people do not believe this they are plain stupid). Despite the claims of the so called innocent 9 that they are evaluating a product, what is really happening is that they are generating sufficient traffic to justify the running of such sites. Warez sites in the main. keep going by click-thru banner exchanges and other money making scams such as linking to premium porn sites. By evaluating software in this manner, you are all guilty to a small degree of ensuring that at least 10% of people visiting warez sites appropriate software by illegal means, with the intention of permanently depriving the authors of any revenue. Wake up guys. You want top programmers to perform miracles and then treat them with this contempt? > > I don't think it applies to anyone here, and I don't think there's any > new angle left with which to denounce, How many angles to denounce theft does a decent citicen need before he is convinced? Just curious MS

"Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:C_qe5.10091$[email hidden]... > I agree. The only genuine argument the anti-warez people could put isthat > some of the people who have downloaded won't buy it because it doesn'tmeet > their expectations. That's fair enough, but there are plenty of peoplewho > have downloaded it and will now buy it. And there will be those who simply rip it off. MS > About warez in general, how much sympathy can you have for the industry asa > whole when it consistently churns out so much mediocre rubbish, I sympathise with an industry that gets ripped off for many millions every year through piracy. > or when it > produces so many blatant copies of other games. There have been market leaders and plagurists in every industry that ever existed. the leaders and innovators are the ones who tend to survive in the long term. Also I know for a fact that > many companies literally bribe reviewers. Again, unethical practice exists everywhere. Of course, reviewers tend to be less than knowledgeable at times! > games that are released bug-ridden and unfinished. So go buy software from shops with a returns policy or make efforts to make these issues known. Inadequate software will continue to be released once there ceases to be a market for it. > Given this sort of attitude from the majority of the industry it's nowonder > people resort to warez rather than get ripped off. Stick with the ones who have a reputation for producing decent titles then. The others will fall by the wayside. Everybody has the right to vote with their feet. MS

In all the years that I have been posting to RAS I have never been so amazed at the behaviour of some as I have been over the past several days. Taking a step back and reading the subject headers gives the impression of a hoard of hungry pigs all vying to get their snouts into the slop. From my vantage point it's a disgusting sight. F12000 started what will now become a "warez habit"......no doubt releases of NASCAR Heat, N4, WSC, and other anticipated sim releases will bring similar activity here. RAS has descended to the same level as any porn newsgroup on the 'net. I really and sincerely hope that the publishers note and take full advantage of this shameful behaviour and deliberately feed defective, pre-release beta gold CDs into the warez "system" so that those bottom-feeders who devour this type of stuff will choke on it. I, for one, have nothing but contempt for the morals and behaviour of some who have posted here over the last week. I feel as if I've trodden in something rather nasty. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. ---------------------------

> So you have never had a warez copy of anything on your hard drive Bruce ? > Not even GPL? I seem to recall GPL posts from you prier to its release. We even had (still have) a private NG where we discussed GPL months before the official release. Do your homework buddy. We were discussing the officially released demo !! MS

L_NiN0 wrote: > > may he who has never used winzip past its 30 day shareware limit cast the > first stone. Hehehe. Check and mate! -- Chuck Kandler A man is no less a Slave just because he is allowed to choose a new Master every four years. Registered Linux User #180746 http://counter.li.org

Glen Priest wrote:

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> > It reminds me very much of the MP3 controversy. It would take > either a very big and threatening man, or else a gorgeous semi-naked > babe to get me to listen to ANYTHING by "Metallica", but that guy's > "music" should not be available to anyone who hasn't bought a CD or > tape, or attended a concert, or listened to an advertiser-supported > radio station. MY not-very-humble opinion! :-)) Glen Priest

Well, I don't do MP3's, but this one *still* stinks!! It's not much different than listening to a radio. These millionaires just think they gotta beat these kids out of every last fricking dime they got is all. Greedy bastards! They don't realize they're just alienating current and future fans, thus reducing future sales for their product. They'll get their come-uppance. -- Chuck Kandler A man is no less a Slave just because he is allowed to choose a new Master every four years. Registered Linux User #180746 http://counter.li.org

"m.seery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:pIBe5.5073$[email hidden]...

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> > > > > Warez helps people try software prior to purchase - some buy it who > > wouldn't otherwise, others don't buy it who perhaps would.. > > > Bullshit. > > Definition of theft - > To procure goods or property with intent to permanently deprive the legal > owner.

Based on your definition then it is not theft to try warez before the game is out and then buy the game when it is released. Because if this is done it in no way permanently deprives the legal owner. LOL > Warez is simple theft, or in the hands of somebody who has downloaded it > from a site, reciept of stolen goods. Sure, people can try warez productsto > see if they would like the product or not. In the same manner, I could go > and steal a chocolate bar from the local shop before I decide whether Ilike

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> the taste or not and whether I will buy more of the same. No matter what > play on words people like to go with, once one's hands are soiled with the > "swag", curiosity is no justification for committing the initial act of > theft. > > LOL. > > Sorry M'lud, I ripped off this software because I wanted to know if it was > any good or not before I bought it. > > People have of late, taken great pleasure in lambasting British football > hooligans and branding all British football supporters with the same iron. > For every hooligan there are ten England fans who are decent hardworking

and

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> genuine sporting fans. These people are branded as the scum of Europe > because they travel on the same planes, share the same hotels and stand on > the same terraces as their lowlife counterparts. > > In the same manner, all gamers (or all other software users come to that) > are branded as potential thieves because of the warez supporting people > amongst them. This is why we see CD protection and other measures > implemented. For every 10 persons who download a warez game (to evaluate) > and deletes it, rest assured that there will be at least 1 who will keep

it > on their hard disk. (If people do not believe this they are plain stupid). > Despite the claims of the so called innocent 9 that they are evaluating a > product, what is really happening is that they are generating sufficient > traffic to justify the running of such sites. Warez sites in the main.keep > going by click-thru banner exchanges and other money making scams such as > linking to premium porn sites. By evaluating software in this manner, you > are all guilty to a small degree of ensuring that at least 10% of people > visiting warez sites appropriate software by illegal means, with the > intention of permanently depriving the authors of any revenue. Wake upguys. > You want top programmers to perform miracles and then treat them withthis

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> contempt? > > > > > I don't think it applies to anyone here, and I don't think there's any > > new angle left with which to denounce, > > How many angles to denounce theft does a decent citicen need before he is > convinced? Just curious > > MS > > >

Yep. A lot of people do a lot of bad things. -- Todd S. Life - Sexually transmitted, Always fatal "m.seery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_RBe5.5081$[email hidden]... > > "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:C_qe5.10091$[email hidden]... > > I agree. The only genuine argument the anti-warez people could put is > that > > some of the people who have downloaded won't buy it because it doesn't > meet > > their expectations. That's fair enough, but there are plenty of people > who > > have downloaded it and will now buy it. > > And there will be those who simply rip it off. > > MS > > > > About warez in general, how much sympathy can you have for the industry as > a > > whole when it consistently churns out so much mediocre rubbish, > > I sympathise with an industry that gets ripped off for many millions every > year through piracy. > > > or when it > > produces so many blatant copies of other games. > > There have been market leaders and plagurists in every industry that ever > existed. the leaders and innovators are the ones who tend to survive in the > long term. > > Also I know for a fact that > > many companies literally bribe reviewers. > > Again, unethical practice exists everywhere. Of course, reviewers tend to be > less than knowledgeable at times! > > > games that are released bug-ridden and unfinished. > > So go buy software from shops with a returns policy or make efforts to make > these issues known. Inadequate software will continue to be released once > there ceases to be a market for it. > > > Given this sort of attitude from the majority of the industry it's no > wonder > > people resort to warez rather than get ripped off. > > Stick with the ones who have a reputation for producing decent titles then. > The others will fall by the wayside. Everybody has the right to vote with > their feet. > > MS > >

You sure it's not Bruce Ruxton? What makes you think people give a damn about your moral perspective? Discuss the simulator. You're posts are off topic. On Sun, 23 Jul 2000 08:46:27 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>In all the years that I have been posting to RAS I have never been so amazed >at the behaviour of some as I have been over the past several days. > >Taking a step back and reading the subject headers gives the impression of a >hoard of hungry pigs all vying to get their snouts into the slop. From my >vantage point it's a disgusting sight. > >F12000 started what will now become a "warez habit"......no doubt releases >of NASCAR Heat, N4, WSC, and other anticipated sim releases will bring >similar activity here. RAS has descended to the same level as any porn >newsgroup on the 'net. > >I really and sincerely hope that the publishers note and take full advantage >of this shameful behaviour and deliberately feed defective, pre-release beta >gold CDs into the warez "system" so that those bottom-feeders who devour >this type of stuff will choke on it. > >I, for one, have nothing but contempt for the morals and behaviour of some >who have posted here over the last week. I feel as if I've trodden in >something rather nasty.

Chris Bloom <[email hidden]> wrote: >I'm sure they would be more >inclined to appreciate the positive features ... Maybe so, but that makes the review less informative IMO. Joe McGinn _____________________ Radical Entertainment

Read the whole post in context Todd! Or better still, howabout I add, taking without the consent of the owner? MS MS "Todd Sorensen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:wlEe5.55691$[email hidden]...

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> > > > "m.seery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:pIBe5.5073$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > Warez helps people try software prior to purchase - some buy it who > > > wouldn't otherwise, others don't buy it who perhaps would.. > > > > > > Bullshit. > > > > Definition of theft - > > To procure goods or property with intent to permanently deprive the

legal > > owner. > > Based on your definition then it is not theft to try warez before the game > is out and then buy the game when it is released. Because if this is doneit

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> in no way permanently deprives the legal owner. > > LOL > > > > Warez is simple theft, or in the hands of somebody who has downloaded it > > from a site, reciept of stolen goods. Sure, people can try warez

products > to > > see if they would like the product or not. In the same manner, I couldgo > > and steal a chocolate bar from the local shop before I decide whether I > like > > the taste or not and whether I will buy more of the same. No matter what > > play on words people like to go with, once one's hands are soiled withthe > > "swag", curiosity is no justification for committing the initial act of > > theft. > > > > LOL. > > > > Sorry M'lud, I ripped off this software because I wanted to know if itwas > > any good or not before I bought it. > > > > People have of late, taken great pleasure in lambasting British football > > hooligans and branding all British football supporters with the sameiron. > > For every hooligan there are ten England fans who are decent hardworking > and > > genuine sporting fans. These people are branded as the scum of Europe > > because they travel on the same planes, share the same hotels and standon > > the same terraces as their lowlife counterparts. > > > > In the same manner, all gamers (or all other software users come tothat) > > are branded as potential thieves because of the warez supporting people > > amongst them. This is why we see CD protection and other measures > > implemented. For every 10 persons who download a warez game (toevaluate) > > and deletes it, rest assured that there will be at least 1 who will keep > it > > on their hard disk. (If people do not believe this they are plainstupid). > > Despite the claims of the so called innocent 9 that they are evaluatinga > > product, what is really happening is that they are generating sufficient > > traffic to justify the running of such sites. Warez sites in the main. > keep > > going by click-thru banner exchanges and other money making scams suchas > > linking to premium porn sites. By evaluating software in this manner,you

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> > are all guilty to a small degree of ensuring that at least 10% of people > > visiting warez sites appropriate software by illegal means, with the > > intention of permanently depriving the authors of any revenue. Wake up > guys. > > You want top programmers to perform miracles and then treat them with > this > > contempt? > > > > > > > > I don't think it applies to anyone here, and I don't think there's any > > > new angle left with which to denounce, > > > > How many angles to denounce theft does a decent citicen need before he

is

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> > convinced? Just curious > > > > MS > > > > > > > >

I have sympathy when a *real* company goes under like Looking Glass, someone who genuinely innovates, but as for the majority of the industry, they treat gamers with utter contempt. I know exactly which companies I respect, and I always buy their games. I paid �65 (nearly $100) for System Shock 2 so I had could have it 6 weeks before the UK release. I bought Thief, I bought Thief 2. I also bought everything Papyrus have ever released. On Friday I will buy GP3. As for people like EA, they deserve no respect. Last year EA told Origin that if Ultima 9 wasn't released by the fall it would be scrapped, even though Origin still had THREE MONTHS work left to do on it. The game hadn't even reached beta testing, but EA insisted it was released. Consequently it was horribly slow and barely worked, and when it did work it crashed all the time. This year EA did more or less the same thing with Image Space Incorporated and F1 2000, another un-finished product with an un-optimized engine, mistakes in the track layouts and unfinished AI code. EA forced a release to hit the start of the F1 season. Two games with potential ruined. I have no sympathy for EA when their software gets pirated. They treat gamers with no respect and they deserve none in return. They sooner they are out of business the better. pardon the rant :)

Peddle that message at a warez convention, John, to the already-converted. That's where it belongs. And if you can't stand the the high moral ground then stay down in the mud with the rest of the herd. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Senninha <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Personally I'm feeling more than a tad queasy from all the right-on > moralising - Sherpa Tensing couldn't help people onto any higher moral > ground than has been seen here. > > Warez helps people try software prior to purchase - some buy it who > wouldn't otherwise, others don't buy it who perhaps would.. Those > numbers will even out, but if the product is good you should benefit. > The ones with the warez habit wouldn't buy any game anyway, so what's > lost? > > I don't think it applies to anyone here, and I don't think there's any > new angle left with which to denounce, so can we all take a break from > the war of words? I don't think my stomach can take much more.

And which simulator would that be that you'd like to discuss? The one in the QANTAS base at Mascot, for the 747? Or the one that is used by the RAAF for training on the F-18? -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Jig <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > You sure it's not Bruce Ruxton? What makes you think people give a > damn about your moral perspective? Discuss the simulator. You're posts > are off topic. > > > On Sun, 23 Jul 2000 08:46:27 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >In all the years that I have been posting to RAS I have never been so amazed > >at the behaviour of some as I have been over the past several days. > > > >Taking a step back and reading the subject headers gives the impression of a > >hoard of hungry pigs all vying to get their snouts into the slop. From my > >vantage point it's a disgusting sight. > > > >F12000 started what will now become a "warez habit"......no doubt releases > >of NASCAR Heat, N4, WSC, and other anticipated sim releases will bring > >similar activity here. RAS has descended to the same level as any porn > >newsgroup on the 'net. > > > >I really and sincerely hope that the publishers note and take full advantage > >of this shameful behaviour and deliberately feed defective, pre-release beta > >gold CDs into the warez "system" so that those bottom-feeders who devour > >this type of stuff will choke on it. > > > >I, for one, have nothing but contempt for the morals and behaviour of some > >who have posted here over the last week. I feel as if I've trodden in > >something rather nasty. >

No, Todd...I have NEVER had a warez (or any other illegal copy) on any computer since I've been using them....and that includes applications software. Demos, "crippleware", shareware and freeware....yes. But anything that has been "ripped" (I think that's the term) and posted for general download.....definitely not. Certainly there were posts concerning GPL prior to it's official release, but there was no illegal copy involved to the best of my knowledge. I had the opportunity, for over seven years, to test and evaluate software....so although I may not have PAID for every copy I tested, the software was made available to me legally. Now, if you want to take it further, I can make arrangements to meet you in my solicitors office if you so wish. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- T.Galvin <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In all the years that I have been posting to RAS I have never been so > amazed > > at the behaviour of some as I have been over the past several days. > > > > Taking a step back and reading the subject headers gives the impression of > a > > hoard of hungry pigs all vying to get their snouts into the slop. From my > > vantage point it's a disgusting sight. > > > > F12000 started what will now become a "warez habit"......no doubt releases > > of NASCAR Heat, N4, WSC, and other anticipated sim releases will bring > > similar activity here. RAS has descended to the same level as any porn > > newsgroup on the 'net. > > So you have never had a warez copy of anything on your hard drive Bruce ? > Not even GPL? I seem to recall GPL posts from you prier to its release. > > Todd. > >

Yeah, Group 4 is getting a lot of business this way. "Confidence" Ronald, not "security". Again I take exception to the age bracket comment. Jan. ;-) =--- Ronald Stoehr wrote...

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> <snip> > Well said! Not to mention the security with which > some of those 10 year olds are dissing the sim > already... > > -- > l8er > ronny

On Sun, 23 Jul 2000 13:35:26 +0100, "m.seery" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Bullshit. >Definition of theft - >To procure goods or property with intent to permanently deprive the legal >owner. So by that definition warez is not theft, provided there is the intent to purchase the software at a later date as is the case we are discussing here. >Sure, people can try warez products to >see if they would like the product or not. In the same manner, I could go >and steal a chocolate bar from the local shop before I decide whether I like >the taste or not and whether I will buy more of the same. Unlike warez it's kind of difficult to go and pay for that chocolate later. Not a valid comparison. >No matter what >play on words people like to go with, once one's hands are soiled with the >"swag", curiosity is no justification for committing the initial act of >theft. Do you consider it acceptable for a software company to, for example, minimally update an old game, release no demo, then bribe/threaten the only review sources into pouring praise on it with a view to getting �30 out of me? I haven't downloaded GP3 and won't waste the download time, but if I read the magazines I'd say it was a must buy, but listening to the people here it's far from as clear. I think we view warez from a different angle in that regard. I see it as a last resport preview when no other means is available to minimise the risk of shelling out for crap, you see it as an attempt to avoid paying. >In the same manner, all gamers (or all other software users come to that) >are branded as potential thieves because of the warez supporting people >amongst them. Rubbish. I know of no-one who holds this opinion. >This is why we see CD protection and other measures >implemented. For every 10 persons who download a warez game (to evaluate) >and deletes it, rest assured that there will be at least 1 who will keep it >on their hard disk. CD protection has nothing to do with that, as is blatantly obvious. You can't "download" a physical CD after all. It exists to stop people buying the game, installing it, and loaning the CD to all their mates. Oh no! Piracy that's not related to warez, surely that cannot be. >(If people do not believe this they are plain stupid). See above, if people believe that they ARE plain stupid. >Despite the claims of the so called innocent 9 that they are evaluating a >product, what is really happening is that they are generating sufficient >traffic to justify the running of such sites. Warez sites in the main. keep >going by click-thru banner exchanges and other money making scams such as >linking to premium porn sites. You seem to know an awful lot about this. Frankly warez has existed long, long before such schemes existed - warez just exists as a challenge among groups of people - who can get the software first, who cracks it first and who distributes it first. It has never been much to do with money, only kudos. >By evaluating software in this manner, you >are all guilty to a small degree of ensuring that at least 10% of people >visiting warez sites appropriate software by illegal means, with the >intention of permanently depriving the authors of any revenue. Wake up guys. >You want top programmers to perform miracles and then treat them with this >contempt? No, I want top programers to be rewarded and people turning out crud to be outed. >How many angles to denounce theft does a decent citicen need before he is >convinced? Just curious Given the popularity that you outline above, obviously more than has been provided. I don't advocate warez, nor do I bother downloading them, but I am open-minded enough to see some benefits, not only the disadvantages. Cheers! John

On Sun, 23 Jul 2000 18:16:56 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Now, if you want to take it further, I can make arrangements to meet you in >my solicitors office if you so wish. If you pay for my ticket then I'll be there - my sister lives in Canberra, and a holiday would be nice! Cheers! John

You really are an anal moron! Very amusing though. Go and iron your socks pal. On Sun, 23 Jul 2000 18:09:32 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote: >And which simulator would that be that you'd like to discuss? The one in the >QANTAS base at Mascot, for the 747? Or the one that is used by the RAAF for >training on the F-18?

Victor, you haven't the faintest idea of my expectations of GP3 and, in fact, if you take the time to read an earlier post of mine (not in this thread) you will note that I have NEVER expected GP3 to be "F1 sim of all sim" (sic). My expectations were that it be nothing more than GP2 with enhanced graphics. I think that MY expectations may very well be met. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Victor Chan <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Jete5.4114$[email hidden]... > Nah..............besides, if GP3 is going to be like the warez version and you don't know > about it, you and others will get pissed when GP3 is out; you are expecting a F1 sim of > all sim. In short, from what I read (I don't have DSL yet or cable so I couldn't try out > the game), GP3 is GP2 updated. Worst, hypes surrounding this game are so much that > people have been brainwashed into believing GP3 is the F1 sim of all sims. The best > thing is to come out with a demo. If it isn't for the warez version to slap people in > the face so that they can think for a moment about this game, everyone would flock to > their local EB and to buy GP3. There, you have just wasted $45 for an updated to GP2. > Yet, you make the publishers and the developers richer. 4 years into the development but > to release an update for GP2. :-) > > > "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > In all the years that I have been posting to RAS I have never been so amazed > > at the behaviour of some as I have been over the past several days. > > > > Taking a step back and reading the subject headers gives the impression of a > > hoard of hungry pigs all vying to get their snouts into the slop. From my > > vantage point it's a disgusting sight. > > > > F12000 started what will now become a "warez habit"......no doubt releases > > of NASCAR Heat, N4, WSC, and other anticipated sim releases will bring > > similar activity here. RAS has descended to the same level as any porn > > newsgroup on the 'net. > > > > I really and sincerely hope that the publishers note and take full advantage > > of this shameful behaviour and deliberately feed defective, pre-release beta > > gold CDs into the warez "system" so that those bottom-feeders who devour > > this type of stuff will choke on it. > > > > I, for one, have nothing but contempt for the morals and behaviour of some > > who have posted here over the last week. I feel as if I've trodden in > > something rather nasty. > > -- > > Regards, > > Bruce Kennewell, > > Canberra, Australia. > > --------------------------- > > > > > > > >

I don't equate it with anything more than a pub discussion group. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Intimidator <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > >> I, for one, have nothing but contempt for the morals and behaviour of some > >> who have posted here over the last week. I feel as if I've trodden in > >> something rather nasty. > >> -- > >> Regards, > >> Bruce Kennewell, > >> Canberra, Australia. > >> --------------------------- > >> > >> > >> > > > > Chill out, man. It's a newsgroup about racing games on the computer. > Don't equate it with a sanctuary where only the most blessed, most > purest of souls gather to discuss everything that is good and right. >

So for everyone here who genuinely will be buying GP3, downloading the warez version cannot be described as theft. Thanks for clearing that up.

Simon, interesting stuff. How did you find that information about EA's rushed product out? -- Colin Harris ColinHarris in N3/NL and VROC Bomber Racing: http://fullspeed.to/Bomber ICQ 25485061 > This year EA did more or less the same thing with Image Space Incorporated > and F1 2000, another un-finished product with an un-optimized engine, > mistakes in the track layouts and unfinished AI code. EA forced a release > to hit the start of the F1 season. > Two games with potential ruined. > I have no sympathy for EA when their software gets pirated. They treat > gamers with no respect and they deserve none in return. They sooner they > are out of business the better. > > pardon the rant :) > >

Bruce Kennewell <[email hidden]> wrote: : In all the years that I have been posting to RAS I have never been so amazed : at the behaviour of some as I have been over the past several days. Me too - this pathetic moralising makes me feel slightly ill. -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York UPDATED WWW: http://manor.york.ac.uk/

You've got a point there. Sorry... :)

It was on a gaming news site, www.voodooextreme.com in the week or so after the game launched last year. Apparently a senior programmer from Origin contacted them. I know you will probably say this isn't proof, but either way, the game was put out in an unfinished condition. It was hopelessly slow in all cases, and wouldn't even start in D3D, which meant anyone with an nVidia card was stumped. Also countless quest were impossible to finish, your character sunk through the floor in numerous places, or got stuck in scenery. Origin had to send a new copy of the install CD to everyone who had bought it when a few months later they finally had the game finished.

Sorry.....not even close. I HAVE used WinZip...and other programs....beyond their time-allowed period. But I also own registered copies of those programs. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > L_NiN0 wrote: > > > > may he who has never used winzip past its 30 day shareware limit cast the > > first stone. > > > Hehehe. Check and mate! > > -- > Chuck Kandler > > A man is no less a Slave just because he is > allowed to choose a new Master every four years. > > Registered Linux User #180746 > http://counter.li.org

No, no, Simon, I wasn't doubting a word you said (that's been the problem in r.a.s. recently, hasn't it - everyone's so defensive!!!!) I was just interested. It explains a lot of things about F1 2k for sure. -- Colin Harris ColinHarris in N3/NL and VROC Bomber Racing: http://fullspeed.to/Bomber ICQ 25485061 Simon Brown <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:iLVe5.15991$[email hidden]... > It was on a gaming news site, www.voodooextreme.com in the week or so after > the game launched last year. Apparently a senior programmer from Origin > contacted them. I know you will probably say this isn't proof, but either > way, the game was put out in an unfinished condition. It was hopelessly > slow in all cases, and wouldn't even start in D3D, which meant anyone with > an nVidia card was stumped. Also countless quest were impossible to finish, > your character sunk through the floor in numerous places, or got stuck in > scenery. > Origin had to send a new copy of the install CD to everyone who had bought > it when a few months later they finally had the game finished. > >

Another poster who can't read past the first sentance! MS "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:QPNe5.14645$[email hidden]... > So for everyone here who genuinely will be buying GP3, downloading thewarez > version cannot be described as theft. Thanks for clearing that up. > >

Ok. :) I also heard someone say the developement cycle for F1 2000 was less than a year. I don't know how EA expect anyone to do a complete F1 sim in that amount of time. It's a shame the game turned out to have some problems, I genuinely enjoyed Sports Car GT.

You've got a point there. Sorry... :)

Ronald, It's your sig... do what you like with it. I truly have no opinion on it. I just needed a crutch to target _you_ and turn the tables. I take it it ruffled your feathers since you're sullen about it. ;-)) I just hate being included in sweeping generalisations.... vanity? -Surely not! ;-)) Jan. =--- Ronald Stoehr wrote...

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> <snip> > Do you feel targeted? Damn, I was just shooting in the > general direction. ;) > > BTW, I recently thought about changing my sig. But just > for you, I'll continue to be as lazy as the cat, and leave > it as it is. > > -- > l8er > ronny

Jan Verschueren wrote:

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> > Yeah, Group 4 is getting a lot of business this way. "Confidence" Ronald, > not "security". > > Again I take exception to the age bracket comment. > > Jan. ;-)

Do you feel targeted? Damn, I was just shooting in the general direction. ;) BTW, I recently thought about changing my sig. But just for you, I'll continue to be as lazy as the cat, and leave it as it is. -- l8er ronny Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change to take effect. Reboot now? |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

Well....don't hold it in. Vomit! -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Richard G Clegg <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8lh4ur$6h5$[email hidden]... > Bruce Kennewell <[email hidden]> wrote: > : In all the years that I have been posting to RAS I have never been so amazed > : at the behaviour of some as I have been over the past several days. > > Me too - this pathetic moralising makes me feel slightly ill. > > -- > Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving > Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group > Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York > UPDATED WWW: http://manor.york.ac.uk/

"Chris Bloom" <[email hidden]> wrote > Nicely put Bruce. I wonder if all those who have downloaded the > Warez version had been forced to buy GP3 they would be so quick > to point out the negative aspects. I'm sure they would be more > inclined to appreciate the positive features of what I still > believe will be a great sim. Au contraire, Chris. Just wait until next week and you will see many people frustrated that they spent money on an update of Gp2, thinking it would be something much better and bigger, like the hype for it. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.