Re: rec.autos.simulators.gpl and .gp3

In article <8lh8uf$b1t$[email hidden]>, Douglas Ellison <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>PLEASE MR NEWSGROUP PEOPLE > >(or however you go about it) > >D'you think we should have sub-newsgroups in this higherarchy - i.e. .gpl >.gp2 .gp3 .wsc and .crap perhaps for those determined to slag off anything >that isn't gpl?!!? > >How do you go about asking to get them made?!? > >Cheers >DOug > >

No we do not need another newsgroup. This usually happens around here anytime there is a new sim released that generates a lot of posts about it... There was an official try to split the group a few years ago and it failed, because most of us like to get all our auto sim info in one place. If you are not interested in particular threads about certain stuff, I'd suggest you either ignore those threads or use a killfile to not see them. Give it a few weeks and things will die down back to normal, but it will happen again when N4 comes out or WSC or GPL2. --John --

On Mon 24 Jul 2000 01:02:34pm, Douglas Ellison wrote: <snip> >And my opinions are based on the 4500 word essay I wrote for my >University degree about the commercial viability of GPL, which , >incidentaly, recieved an A.<snip> So what? Surely all that A grade shows is that you have the ability to put across your argument clearly and cogently, with evidence to support it. All that means is that it is a valid argument, not necessarily that it is correct. -- David. (GPLRank handicap: -1.43) "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really." (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

Douglas Ellison wrote... > I own a copy of GPL - have done for about 18 months- > very nice thank you. From time to time get a strange > urge to drive it, but I play F1 2000 a lot more. > It's more fun that GPL could ever be. Just a matter of time... you'll come round to GPL once your skills transcend F1 2000. ;-) Before another polemic starts up... I like F1 2000, I even own it, but GPL gives me more challenge and reward. > The worst thing about GPL is the chronic fanatics > (like yourself) who jump and flame the moment > anyone even contemplates thinking about. About what? You will notice that well thought out / informative posts will be well received. People who get flamed make boisterous claims which transcend the level of the subjective (how they appreciate the game) into the objective (actual game characteristics). I refer to a recent debate about GPL having to have D3D support out of the box, eventhough this API was nearly non-existent when the game was developed. > And my opinions are based on the 4500 word essay I > wrote for my University degree about the commercial > viability of GPL, which , incidentaly, recieved > an A. Congratulations... however I fail to see how such an analysis applies to the individual enjoying a certain product other than it not existing if the analysis is carried out before actually producing it. Very important not to confuse statistics and the law of averages with individuals. I, for one, am not going to enjoy GPL any less based on your conclusions. Have you placed this essay on the web somewhere, BTW? -I'd be interested to read it, mail me if you fear a public trial on this forum. > So, perhaps you should find out about ME before criticising me. Then, > perhaps, your opinions are based on something? Right, 217 headers in this group in just under 6 hours. I'm not going read every one, nor check the credentials of every poster before I reply. Jan. =---

I own a copy of GPL - have done for about 18 months- very nice thank you. From time to time get a strange urge to drive it, but I play F1 2000 a lot more. It's more fun that GPL could ever be. The worst thing about GPL is the chronic fanatics (like yourself) who jump and flame the moment anyone even contemplates thinking about. And my opinions are based on the 4500 word essay I wrote for my University degree about the commercial viability of GPL, which , incidentaly, recieved an A. So, perhaps you should find out about ME before criticising me. Then, perhaps, your opinions are based on something? Simon Brown <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2RVe5.16015$[email hidden]... > Don't you think it might be worth finding out for yourself how good GPL is > before you start criticising it? Then at least your opinions are based on > something. > >

I'm not saying that anything here is off topic.. What I'm saying is that it's getting too busy. The reason I suggested it was this... There's a newsgroup comp.periphs.mainboard for opvious topics, BUT, that doesn't stop their being 17 further newsgroups ( i.e. comp.periphs.mainboard.asus ) for each brand of board? Would the same thing not be applicable here to spread the traffic between game titles? Doug Juha Kallioinen <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8lha3r$djcu$[email hidden]...

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> In article <8lh8uf$b1t$[email hidden]>, > Douglas Ellison <[email hidden]> wrote: > >PLEASE MR NEWSGROUP PEOPLE > > > >(or however you go about it) > > > >D'you think we should have sub-newsgroups in this higherarchy - i.e. .gpl > >.gp2 .gp3 .wsc and .crap perhaps for those determined to slag off

anything

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> >that isn't gpl?!!? > > Those are all simulators of auto racing and this newsgroup is the perfect > place to discuss them. Where's the problem with people discussing on-topic > matters in this newsgroup? > > Put GPL and GP3 in subject into a kill filter if you don't want to read > about them. It's that simple. > > -Juha > -- > file://[email hidden]

Oh how I laughed :-) I agree entirely with you. There are some incredibly funny people in this newsgroup - only they don't seem to know it. I only started reading it a week ago, and it's provided me with no end of entertainment. Anybody would think a lot of the people here are queer or something - the way they mince at each other, claws out :-D Makes the day that much more bearable to see the spats carrying on from day to day.... hehe JB On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 13:02:34 +0100, "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I own a copy of GPL - have done for about 18 months- very nice thank you. >From time to time get a strange urge to drive it, but I play F1 2000 a lot >more. It's more fun that GPL could ever be. > >The worst thing about GPL is the chronic fanatics (like yourself) who jump >and flame the moment anyone even contemplates thinking about. > >And my opinions are based on the 4500 word essay I wrote for my University >degree about the commercial viability of GPL, which , incidentaly, recieved >an A. > >So, perhaps you should find out about ME before criticising me. Then, >perhaps, your opinions are based on something? > >Simon Brown <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:2RVe5.16015$[email hidden]... >> Don't you think it might be worth finding out for yourself how good GPL is >> before you start criticising it? Then at least your opinions are based on >> something. >> >> > >

PLEASE MR NEWSGROUP PEOPLE (or however you go about it) D'you think we should have sub-newsgroups in this higherarchy - i.e. .gpl .gp2 .gp3 .wsc and .crap perhaps for those determined to slag off anything that isn't gpl?!!? How do you go about asking to get them made?!? Cheers DOug

Sounds like you need to learn to use a kill filter. On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 12:22:32 +0100, "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>PLEASE MR NEWSGROUP PEOPLE > >(or however you go about it) > >D'you think we should have sub-newsgroups in this higherarchy - i.e. .gpl >.gp2 .gp3 .wsc and .crap perhaps for those determined to slag off anything >that isn't gpl?!!? > >How do you go about asking to get them made?!? > >Cheers >DOug > >

In article <8lh8uf$b1t$[email hidden]>, Douglas Ellison <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>PLEASE MR NEWSGROUP PEOPLE > >(or however you go about it) > >D'you think we should have sub-newsgroups in this higherarchy - i.e. .gpl >.gp2 .gp3 .wsc and .crap perhaps for those determined to slag off anything >that isn't gpl?!!?

Those are all simulators of auto racing and this newsgroup is the perfect place to discuss them. Where's the problem with people discussing on-topic matters in this newsgroup? Put GPL and GP3 in subject into a kill filter if you don't want to read about them. It's that simple. -Juha -- //[email hidden]

He never criticized GPL. --

[email hidden] (Jon Beckett) writes:

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> Oh how I laughed :-) I agree entirely with you. > > There are some incredibly funny people in this newsgroup - only they > don't seem to know it. I only started reading it a week ago, and it's > provided me with no end of entertainment. > > Anybody would think a lot of the people here are queer or something - > the way they mince at each other, claws out :-D > > Makes the day that much more bearable to see the spats carrying on > from day to day.... hehe

And you got nice timing too. I can't remember thig ng beeing in such a state of chaos as it is right now. -- Olav K. Malmin remove spam when replying

Don't you think it might be worth finding out for yourself how good GPL is before you start criticising it? Then at least your opinions are based on something.

Douglas Ellison <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8lhbg0$hn1$[email hidden]...

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> I'm not saying that anything here is off topic.. What I'm saying is that > it's getting too busy. > > The reason I suggested it was this... > > There's a newsgroup comp.periphs.mainboard for opvious topics, > BUT, > that doesn't stop their being 17 further newsgroups ( i.e. > comp.periphs.mainboard.asus ) for each brand of board? > > Would the same thing not be applicable here to spread the traffic between > game titles?

Not necessarily. If you own an ASUS motherboard, then you're probably not very interested in the intricacies of another brand on a day to day basis. Most people don't own very many motherboards, and splitting up the groups into separate ones makes sense. But sim enthusiasts usually DO own multiple racing sims, and are interested in multiple game titles. Even though I love GPL, I don't drive it exclusively and welcome reading posts about other sims. The same would not be true about my ASUS mb.

"Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote > How do you go about asking to get them made?!? Another Usenet newbie who thinks he can by himself modify the social laws of newsgroup structure. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 12:22:32 +0100, "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>PLEASE MR NEWSGROUP PEOPLE > >(or however you go about it) > >D'you think we should have sub-newsgroups in this higherarchy - i.e. .gpl >.gp2 .gp3 .wsc and .crap perhaps for those determined to slag off anything >that isn't gpl?!!? > >How do you go about asking to get them made?!?

Just rename rec.autos.simulators to rec.autos.GPL and you're done. The amount of traffic other sims get is about covered.

Jacob has a nice system on news.simracing.org . Just need him to add a gp3.discussion. Right now there are groups for WSC, N3, NL, GPL, NHeat, OT Posts, Ratbag Sims, and Junk Humor. Developers are active on the WSC and Nheat groups to answer your questions/comments. The server is news.simracing.org . ds Douglas Ellison wrote in message <8lh8uf$b1t$[email hidden]>...

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>PLEASE MR NEWSGROUP PEOPLE > >(or however you go about it) > >D'you think we should have sub-newsgroups in this higherarchy - i.e. .gpl >.gp2 .gp3 .wsc and .crap perhaps for those determined to slag off anything >that isn't gpl?!!? > >How do you go about asking to get them made?!? > >Cheers >DOug > > >

Sy by your own reasoning if I go out and write a 10,000 word essay on economics, I suddenly become an expert on it. That's a good one. I'll have to try it and get back to you. I knew why GPL wouldn't be a commercial success after ten minutes of playing the demo, even though I didin't have a clue how good a simulation it was. >The worst thing about GPL is the chronic fanatics (like yourself) who jump >and flame the moment anyone even contemplates thinking about. does this statement mean something? GPL need a serious investment of time to understand how good it is and how much fun it can be. An odd hour or two every other week leaves you frustrated with it. Your original message stated that people here criticize games just because they are not GPL, which is ridiculous. Other games get coverage and praise where they deserve it. There is plenty of positive comments here on F1 2000 and on GP3, not least by myself.

"Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:5q%e5.17463$[email hidden]... > Sy by your own reasoning if I go out and write a 10,000 word essay on > economics, I suddenly become an expert on it. That's a good one. I'llhave > to try it and get back to you. I knew why GPL wouldn't be a commercial > success after ten minutes of playing the demo, even though I didin't havea > clue how good a simulation it was. I'll one up you. I knew GPL was going to be a commercial failure two years before it was announced. I was going to write it myself. After thinking about it for a while I gave up the idea as. . . commercially unviable. I'm DAMN glad someone wrote it though. DAMN glad!

How do you think your version would have compared to GPL? Do you mind if I ask if you are a professional programmer, or do you program as a hobby? I program 3d myself, both software and D3D, but since it's a hobby i've only so much time to dedicate to it, so progress is slow.

"Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8lh8uf$b1t$[email hidden]... > PLEASE MR NEWSGROUP PEOPLE > > (or however you go about it) > > D'you think we should have sub-newsgroups in this higherarchy - i.e. .gpl No. You must be some Newsgroup newbie lightweight or something. This is very common when a new game comes out. Expecially one that everyone was looking forward to. It will die down in a couple of weeks :-) -- [email hidden] > .gp2 .gp3 .wsc and .crap perhaps for those determined to slag off anything > that isn't gpl?!!? > > How do you go about asking to get them made?!? > > Cheers > DOug > > >

He never criticized GPL. -- [email hidden] "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2RVe5.16015$[email hidden]... > Don't you think it might be worth finding out for yourself how good GPL is > before you start criticising it? Then at least your opinions are based on > something. > >

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I refer to a recent debate > about GPL having to have D3D support out of the box, eventhough this APIwas > nearly non-existent when the game was developed. CPR came out with D3D a year before GPL. GPL didn't have to have D3D when it was released, but SHOULD of had a patch for it at least a YEAR ago. David G Fisher

In article <Aq4f5.63058$A%[email hidden]>, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> writes: >CPR came out with D3D a year before GPL. > >GPL didn't have to have D3D when it was released, but SHOULD of had a patch >for it at least a YEAR ago. > How hard is that to code? Since Sierra gave up on the product(considering poor sales, I'm guessing), it wasn't worth using up their resources... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +69.95 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Yup... agree, BUT, at the time D3D was not as fast or faster than a propriaty API... hence the unofficial Glide patch for CPR to get it moving on a Voodoo based card. In these parts D3D was seen as a joke, not capable of ever rocking the mighty Glide "standard". At the time I think it made sense for GPL to only to support the two "major" (Rendition was quite big in the States, I'm led to believe... everone here had Voodoo's) API's of the time. After all, the TNT chipset which made D3D the API of choice was only avaible on end user cards after GPL had gone gold. Like I said before, in gaming you set your priorities and adjust your hardware accordingly and therefore accept incompatibilities and/or a performance cut in non-priority games. With a TNT2 or GeForce2 I would have higher res and better framerates in certain games, and maybe now in GPL. However I'm trying to ride out the current confusion and upgrade to the overall winner come WSC. Having the D3D patch earlier might have been a bonus for those for who GPL was not the priority game, but for the "true convert" (tongue in cheek, don't start, ok?) there would have been an overriding feeling of "why"? -Runs ok on a V3, dunnit? ;-) Jan. =--- David G Fisher wrote...

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> > <snip> > CPR came out with D3D a year before GPL. > > GPL didn't have to have D3D when it was released, > but SHOULD of had a patch for it at least a YEAR > ago. > > David G Fisher >

It's the same thing. He says anyone who has a high opinion of GPL is talking crap. "Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:w04f5.3997$9%[email hidden]...

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> He never criticized GPL. > > -- > > [email hidden] > > > "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:2RVe5.16015$[email hidden]... > > Don't you think it might be worth finding out for yourself how good GPL

is > > before you start criticising it? Then at least your opinions are basedon > > something. > > > > > >

On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 13:06:13 +0100 Douglas Ellison <[email hidden]> wrote: % I'm not saying that anything here is off topic.. What I'm saying is that % it's getting too busy. % The reason I suggested it was this... % There's a newsgroup comp.periphs.mainboard for opvious topics, % BUT, % that doesn't stop their being 17 further newsgroups ( i.e. % comp.periphs.mainboard.asus ) for each brand of board? % Would the same thing not be applicable here to spread the traffic between % game titles? Contrary to popular opinion, we do enjoy more than one product. We are interested in racing simulations, period. Also the structure of USENET requires that the core hierarchies have "lasting" value. Therefore a rec.autos.simulators.gpl would not fit this criteria. However, we could have a rec.autos.simulators.papyrus, or rec.autos.simulators.f1 - or .nascar ---- but then again, we generally discuss whatever sim is being coded, released or played the most. The buzz is hot at the moment because we have a new sim to kick around (GP3). The same thing happened when f12k came out (or N3, CPR, etc.). It will die down and things will normalize until the next hot sim is about to be released. What I do find interesting in following the threads over the years only 2 companies have ruled the roost, Papyrus and Crammond creations. The true test of the metal is how long a sim lasts in discussion here in r.a.s. At the moment GPL is coming close to matching GP2. I highly suspect that GP3 will soon die out as a hot topic in r.a.s. and GPL will still remain until WSC arrives..... -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. [email hidden] http://www.teleport.com/~mcarver =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 17:39:05 GMT ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote: % "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote % > How do you go about asking to get them made?!? % Another Usenet newbie who thinks he can by himself modify the social laws of % newsgroup structure. ;-) -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. [email hidden] http://www.teleport.com/~mcarver =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

"Michael E. Carver" and I wrote : > % Another Usenet newbie who thinks he can by himself modify the sociallaws of > % newsgroup structure. > > ;-) I like laughing at myself from time to time ;-D -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

It's not normally like this in here Jon. The current GP3/Warez/Anti warez/Great sim/crap arcade flame war is an exceptional case of unharmonious co-existance unprecedented in this place. Add to this the trolls and lurkers who like to hit and run when the heat is on, and you have the current state of anarchy. Most of the regular guys who live here are pretty reasonable people. Hehe. some of the discussions are actually worth reading from time to time <G> MS "Jon Beckett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Oh how I laughed :-) I agree entirely with you. > > There are some incredibly funny people in this newsgroup - only they > don't seem to know it. I only started reading it a week ago, and it's > provided me with no end of entertainment. > > Anybody would think a lot of the people here are queer or something - > the way they mince at each other, claws out :-D > > Makes the day that much more bearable to see the spats carrying on > from day to day.... hehe > > JB > > > On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 13:02:34 +0100, "Douglas Ellison" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I own a copy of GPL - have done for about 18 months- very nice thank you. > >From time to time get a strange urge to drive it, but I play F1 2000 a

lot > >more. It's more fun that GPL could ever be. > > > >The worst thing about GPL is the chronic fanatics (like yourself) whojump > >and flame the moment anyone even contemplates thinking about. > > > >And my opinions are based on the 4500 word essay I wrote for myUniversity > >degree about the commercial viability of GPL, which , incidentaly,recieved

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> >an A. > > > >So, perhaps you should find out about ME before criticising me. Then, > >perhaps, your opinions are based on something? > > > >Simon Brown <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:2RVe5.16015$[email hidden]... > >> Don't you think it might be worth finding out for yourself how good GPL

is > >> before you start criticising it? Then at least your opinions are basedon > >> something. > >> > >> > > > > >

In article <wAKf5.10732$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (m.seery) wrote: > It's not normally like this in here Jon. Course it is! 8-) Every time a new simm comes out!!! hehe..... *Peter* - http://www.cix.co.uk/~peterpc/home.html

On Sat, 29 Jul 2000 10:24:33 -0700, Glen Priest All of your posts are coming out duplicated. -- Nos

I, for one, would love to see the paper youd did on GPL and the sim market! Any chance? * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

On Sat, 29 Jul 2000 10:24:33 -0700, Glen Priest <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >I'd love to read your paper on GPL. Any chance? > > >* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * >The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free! > All of your posts are coming out duplicated. -- Nos

Sorry! It isn't a duplicate if you give it a careful reading, but I DID type a second version of the message since it appeared not to go. I hope it isn't happening each time. I THINK I lost a pretty aggressive one to Cisco this afternoon that took me quite a while to laboriously type, so I fired off a shorter second attempt. Hope I didn't do something wrong on this or others in the posting process. If you see more repeats, PLEASE let me know. Thanks. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

On Sat, 29 Jul 2000 20:13:25 -0700, Glen Priest <[email hidden]> thus spoke:

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>Sorry! It isn't a duplicate if you give it a careful reading, but I >DID type a second version of the message since it appeared not to go. >I hope it isn't happening each time. I THINK I lost a pretty >aggressive one to Cisco this afternoon that took me quite a while to >laboriously type, so I fired off a shorter second attempt. Hope I >didn't do something wrong on this or others in the posting process. If >you see more repeats, PLEASE let me know. Thanks.

Why don't you quote what you are replying to in your posts? -- Nos

I don't know how to include the quote, and anyway figured people didn't want to bother reading someone's message a second or third time. It is certainly true, though, that it is a fairer and more understandable way tocarry on the discussion. Thanks for the suggestion! Priest * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 13:21:58 -0700, Glen Priest <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >I don't know how to include the quote, and anyway figured people didn't >want to bother reading someone's message a second or third time. It is >certainly true, though, that it is a fairer and more understandable way >tocarry on the discussion. Thanks for the suggestion! Priest Are you replying to me? What news reader are you using? If you select reply in any news reader I have used it always quotes the previous text unless you have set an option for it not to. I purge read posts everytime I retrieve new posts so I don't see the previous post to yours and I'm sure not going to read both just to understand who and what you are replying to anyway. You just need to find the option in your software for this to work properly. You don't need to quote the complete text. Just enought to know what you are replying to. -- Nos