Re: GPLRank - no railriding laps allowed!

"David Buttery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > There have been one or two incidents on GPLRank recently of people > posting absurdly fast times (eg 1:25 at Monza), which leads me to think > that some people may be genuinely unaware of one particular rule of > GPLRank. Which is: > > *NO* railriding is allowed! Monza, Monaco, wherever. Don't do it! I have to wonder... is railriding really the fast way around??? Certainly we've all found ourselves caught in the guardrail in the early laps, and "salvaged" a busted lap, but isn't it faster to drive it cleanly? Michael.

On Tue 25 Jul 2000 07:50:26pm, Chris Bloom wrote: >Maybe if you have quicky (lap that is) you should save the >replay and if the GPL rank administrators want to verify a time >you can submit the proof.<snip> This precise topic (particularly with regard to possible WR laps) is currently under discussion on the admins' mailing list. There may be action soon... -- David. (GPLRank handicap: -2.05) "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really." (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

On Tue 25 Jul 2000 04:37:58pm, Dan Leach wrote: >But of course (as us admins know) some of these times are warps and >the pilots may be innocent :-)) True, but clock-smashed laps aren't allowed either. What I'm saying is, check your laps, people! -- David. (GPLRank handicap: -2.05) "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really." (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

There have been one or two incidents on GPLRank recently of people posting absurdly fast times (eg 1:25 at Monza), which leads me to think that some people may be genuinely unaware of one particular rule of GPLRank. Which is: *NO* railriding is allowed! Monza, Monaco, wherever. Don't do it! If you have any railriding laps on your list, please get rid of them and re-submit a valid list of times. People who we (ie the admins) are suspicious about will get e-mailed, and *may* get deleted. So check them times now, folks! (NB: Slipstreaming race laps are fine, though.) -- David. (GPLRank handicap: -2.05) "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really." (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

But of course (as us admins know) some of these times are warps and the pilots may be innocent :-)) Dan Leach David Buttery <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> There have been one or two incidents on GPLRank recently of people > posting absurdly fast times (eg 1:25 at Monza), which leads me to think > that some people may be genuinely unaware of one particular rule of > GPLRank. Which is: > > *NO* railriding is allowed! Monza, Monaco, wherever. Don't do it! > > If you have any railriding laps on your list, please get rid of them > and re-submit a valid list of times. People who we (ie the admins) are > suspicious about will get e-mailed, and *may* get deleted. So check > them times now, folks! > > (NB: Slipstreaming race laps are fine, though.) > > -- > David. (GPLRank handicap: -2.05) > "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, > really." > (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

Maybe if you have quicky (lap that is) you should save the replay and if the GPL rank administrators want to verify a time you can submit the proof. Maybe something like the replay analyser can verify the lap. I know that GP2 lap did a similar sort of thing in GP2 leagues. Just a few thoughts Chris ----------------------------------------------------------- Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Excuse my ignorance, but since I may not be alone in wondering ... what is railriding? Also, what is the St Eldreds Cup? I couldn't seem to find an actual explaination of it at the web site? Thanks, Garth

[email hidden] (Garth and Jenny Somerville) wrote in <8%nf5.5230$[email hidden]>:

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>Excuse my ignorance, but since I may not be alone in wondering ... >what is railriding? > >Also, what is the St Eldreds Cup? I couldn't seem to find an actual >explaination of it at the web site? > >Thanks, >Garth

It's driving with damage off and running your car along the guardrails. Monza's first turn is the most obvious spot, but there are a few others in the game. It's a totally unrealistic kiddy arcade way of driving that wouldn't be possible with damage on, nor would it be acceptable behavior in league racing. Anyone getting personal bests using this technique is really cheating themselves of the satisfaction of driving a clean lap. The St Eldreds Cup is a....uh....mmm....more attainable goal than the Papyrus Benchmark for...uh.... up and coming future GPL hero's, yea, that's it. -- Don Scurlock Vancouver,B.C. GPLRank -4.30 Come see how you rank, at the GPLRank site http://gplrank.schuerkamp.de/

In article <8%nf5.5230$[email hidden]>, Garth and Jenny Somerville <[email hidden]> writes >Excuse my ignorance, but since I may not be alone in wondering ... what is >railriding? I did have an explanation of this from Casey Jones, though I cannot seem to find it now. > >Also, what is the St Eldreds Cup? I couldn't seem to find an actual >explaination of it at the web site? > Pure fantasy that one. :) -- Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) No person's opinions can be said to be more correct than another's, because each is the sole judge of his or her own experience.

In article <8%nf5.5230$[email hidden]>, Garth and Jenny Somerville <[email hidden]> writes Damn, after that last post I suppose I had better explain this now. :) >Excuse my ignorance, but since I may not be alone in wondering ... what is >railriding? > It is potentially possible in GPL to make use of some of the guard rails at certain tracks to improve your cornering speed and hence get a quicker lap time. Frowned upon bigtime. >Also, what is the St Eldreds Cup? I couldn't seem to find an actual >explaination of it at the web site? > A highly reverred personality, almost iconic, due to his dogged determination over the past 18+ months to find ways of becoming a racer of note (to him anyway, to us he already is this) within the annals of GPLrank and GPL in general. Because of this it was bestowed upon him his own personal GPLrank score of 0 - ie neither +/- no matter what his current overall score was. Other races would then be able to compare their own score/time with St Eldreds to see how well they were progressing in relation to the Great Man. In effect, he became the 2nd benchmark by which all others could see how they were progressing in this fantastic sim. -- Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) No person's opinions can be said to be more correct than another's, because each is the sole judge of his or her own experience.

EldredP wrote: > snip > > Why not? An *opinion* can't be argued. You like something, someone else > doesn't. Doesn't make either one of you right or wrong - you just have > differeng 'experiences'... Hmm, everybody should have the right to HAVE and EXPRESS his opinion (without being called a dork or being said of having his head up his ass...), but you can very well argue about opinions, that's the whole idea of discussion. Of course, some level of mental health is required to be able to argue about opinions... I won't mention names, not needed anyway, I guess. ;) > Facts, on the other hand, CAN be argued. "So-and-so won the race Sunday." > "No, he didn't". Look it up, easy to verify. Nice typo there. ;) -- l8er ronny Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change to take effect. Reboot now? |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

Doh! Exit speeds are slower out of Curva Grande and First Lesmos, but boy!! do you save tons of time in the entrance and mid-corner. Anyway, I'm totally talentless; I still can't break 1:26, even using the (newly rediscovered) "banking". Is there an optimum setup or marque for this style of self-abuse? Oh well, at least the second Lesmos still requires a little bit of skill Michael. "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 20:42:48 -0500, "Michael Young" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > >I have to wonder... is railriding really the fast way around??? Certainly > >we've all found ourselves caught in the guardrail in the early laps, and > >"salvaged" a busted lap, but isn't it faster to drive it cleanly? > > Nope. Nothing is faster than slamming the car at full speed to the > railing at Curva Grande or the first Lesmo, 1.25 laps are quite easy > doing this.

Forgot to say: the simple solution is to require practice or race times only for handicap counting. That'd be a really telling statistic, wouldn't it? (The difference in handicap between training vs practice/race PB's.) Michael. "Michael Young" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Doh! Exit speeds are slower out of Curva Grande and First Lesmos, butboy!! > do you save tons of time in the entrance and mid-corner. Anyway, I'mtotally > talentless; I still can't break 1:26, even using the (newly rediscovered) > "banking". Is there an optimum setup or marque for this style ofself-abuse?

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> Oh well, at least the second Lesmos still requires a little bit of skill > > Michael. > > "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 20:42:48 -0500, "Michael Young" > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I have to wonder... is railriding really the fast way around???

Certainly > > >we've all found ourselves caught in the guardrail in the early laps,and

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> > >"salvaged" a busted lap, but isn't it faster to drive it cleanly? > > > > Nope. Nothing is faster than slamming the car at full speed to the > > railing at Curva Grande or the first Lesmo, 1.25 laps are quite easy > > doing this. > > >

In article <[email hidden]>, Tony Jester <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Peter Ives wrote: > >> No person's opinions can be said to be >> more correct than another's, because each is >> the sole judge of his or her own experience. > >You don't really BELIEVE that nonsense, do you? >

Why not? An *opinion* can't be argued. You like something, someone else doesn't. Doesn't make either one of you right or wrong - you just have differeng 'experiences'... Facts, on the other hand, CAN be argued. "So-and-so won the race Sunday." "No, he didn't". Look it up, easy to verify. -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +69.95 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Michael Young wrote in message ... >I have to wonder... is railriding really the fast way around??? Certainly >we've all found ourselves caught in the guardrail in the early laps, and >"salvaged" a busted lap, but isn't it faster to drive it cleanly? I'm sure it is on Monza, particularly on Curva Grande and the first Lesmo. But, of course, damage must be off. Bendito;

Peter Ives wrote: > No person's opinions can be said to be > more correct than another's, because each is > the sole judge of his or her own experience. You don't really BELIEVE that nonsense, do you? -Tony-

On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 20:42:48 -0500, "Michael Young" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>"David Buttery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> There have been one or two incidents on GPLRank recently of people >> posting absurdly fast times (eg 1:25 at Monza), which leads me to think >> that some people may be genuinely unaware of one particular rule of >> GPLRank. Which is: >> >> *NO* railriding is allowed! Monza, Monaco, wherever. Don't do it! > >I have to wonder... is railriding really the fast way around??? Certainly >we've all found ourselves caught in the guardrail in the early laps, and >"salvaged" a busted lap, but isn't it faster to drive it cleanly?

Nope. Nothing is faster than slamming the car at full speed to the railing at Curva Grande or the first Lesmo, 1.25 laps are quite easy doing this. Andre > >Michael. > > >

In article <[email hidden]>, Tony Jester <[email hidden]> writes

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>Peter Ives wrote: > >> No person's opinions can be said to be >> more correct than another's, because each is >> the sole judge of his or her own experience. > >You don't really BELIEVE that nonsense, do you? >

Nonsense? Well that may be your opinion. :) -- Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) Remove ALL_STRESS before replying No person's opinions can be said to be more correct than another's, because each is the sole judge of his or her own experience.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > What I meant was that there IS a right answer on a fact. So you can argueand > say "you're wrong". If someone says "I don't like Ferraris" - that's an > opinion, and you can't say "You're wrong". You can't argue that... A nay-sayer can argue anything. You might try to prove that he lied, because he in fact DOES like Ferraris. Lying and being wrong are different, of course. Or are they? Michael.

In article <[email hidden]>, Ronald Stoehr <[email hidden]> writes: >> Facts, on the other hand, CAN be argued. "So-and-so won the race >Sunday." >> "No, he didn't". Look it up, easy to verify. > >Nice typo there. ;) > It wasn't a typo. I said what I wanted to - I just didn't state it very well... What I meant was that there IS a right answer on a fact. So you can argue and say "you're wrong". If someone says "I don't like Ferraris" - that's an opinion, and you can't say "You're wrong". You can't argue that... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +69.95 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Thu 27 Jul 2000 02:25:58am, Michael Young wrote: >Forgot to say: the simple solution is to require practice or race >times only for handicap counting. That'd be a really telling >statistic, wouldn't it? (The difference in handicap between training >vs practice/race PB's.) <snip> Not a solution, I'm afraid. In a Novice session, you can quite easily get away with a railriding lap of Monza without breaking the car. You also have an advantage over Training sessions in that you can slipstream. Only a small gain, but every little helps. (BTW, some people object to slipstreamed laps - I don't.) In any case, you can view *all* a person's times at GPLRank, so you can compare their Training/Practice/Race times for yourself. -- David. (GPLRank handicap: -2.05) "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really." (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

On 27 Jul 2000 01:57:26 GMT, [email hidden] (David Buttery) wrote: ... >You also have an advantage over Training sessions in that you can >slipstream. Only a small gain, but every little helps. (BTW, some >people object to slipstreamed laps - I don't.) Right, slipstreaming is possible in real life, railriding, well, hardly isn't. ;-) Besides, it's hard to get a real good advantage from slipstreaming; you still have to drive around the car in front of you, which is hard to do without being bothered later on by your diversion of your preferred driving line. Ruud van Gaal, GPL Rank +53.53 MarketGraph / MachTech: http://www.marketgraph.nl Art: http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery

JS wrote: > > Everybody should be able to suspect an irregularity, if he drives a 1:25 and his > former PB was a 1:30 or so. Oh no, there are lots of tracks that I didn't drive on for more than a couple of laps, so if I find the time for them, I'm sure I will improve my lap times on those quite a bit (I'm neither a good nor dedicated GPL hotlapper...) -- l8er ronny Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change to take effect. Reboot now? |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (JS) writes:

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>Everybody should be able to suspect an irregularity, if he drives a 1:25 and >his >former PB was a 1:30 or so. > >Jens > > >On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 16:37:58 +0100, "Dan Leach" ><[email hidden]> >wrote: > >>But of course (as us admins know) some of these times are warps and the >>pilots may be innocent :-)) >> Dan Leach

Yeah, but would you even KNOW what his previous PB was? Out of 600+ drivers, I don't think so... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +69.01 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

[email hidden] (David Buttery) wrote:

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>On Tue 25 Jul 2000 07:50:26pm, Chris Bloom wrote: > >>Maybe if you have quicky (lap that is) you should save the >>replay and if the GPL rank administrators want to verify a time >>you can submit the proof. ><snip> > >This precise topic (particularly with regard to possible WR laps) is >currently under discussion on the admins' mailing list. There may be >action soon...

GPLRank is just fine the way it is. It has such a large membership because it's so easy to use. Replay-verified laps would make a nice option. For example, verified laps could earn a member a little smiley face next to his name. Joe Schmoe might not want his name ahead of Greger Huttu's unless he has the smiley face. My point is, don't scare away members by asking for proof. Encourage them to prove their laps by making it cool to do so. The only problem is, you don't want it to be too cool, or you'll be swamped with replays. Perhaps you could automate the task, somehow. -- Jon Willeke <[email hidden]>

On Fri 28 Jul 2000 02:13:15pm, Jon Willeke wrote: <snip> >My point is, don't scare away members by asking for proof.<snip> The likelihood is that the replay requirement would only apply if someone was submitting a new World Record lap. That wouldn't affect 99.9% of us, and anyone who really can do 1:25 at Monza would be quite happy to submit a replay (as with Schubi's site) as proof. AFAIK, there's no move to require everyone to submit replays - we just couldn't cope with the workload, for one thing. -- David. (GPLRank handicap: -3.01) "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really." (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

Everybody should be able to suspect an irregularity, if he drives a 1:25 and his former PB was a 1:30 or so. Jens On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 16:37:58 +0100, "Dan Leach" <[email hidden]> wrote: >But of course (as us admins know) some of these times are warps and the >pilots may be innocent :-)) > Dan Leach --------------------------------------------- LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at: http://members.xoom.com/JensSchu/ GPLRank: +1.80

Few days ago I topped my old Ring-Pb of 8:25 with a smashing 8:20. I was so excited that I forgot to save the replay :-( Have to race now until I get a 8:19 Jens On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 11:50:26 -0700, Chris Bloom <[email hidden]> wrote: >Maybe if you have quicky (lap that is) you should save the >replay and if the GPL rank administrators want to verify a time >you can submit the proof. ><snip> --------------------------------------------- LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at: http://members.xoom.com/JensSchu/ GPLRank: +1.80

Garth, we don't want you to become naughty, so no answer. Ahem, but a small hint: In certain corners you can slide along the rail to get round the corner faster. In no-damage mode the car survives. I tried it once in Monza and could cut off easily 3 secs without optimizing the ride. Jens On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 17:54:59 -0400, "Garth and Jenny Somerville" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Excuse my ignorance, but since I may not be alone in wondering ... what is >railriding? > >Also, what is the St Eldreds Cup? I couldn't seem to find an actual >explaination of it at the web site? > >Thanks, >Garth > >

--------------------------------------------- LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at: http://members.xoom.com/JensSchu/ GPLRank: +1.80

Ruud van Gaal wrote in message <[email hidden]>... >Right, slipstreaming is possible in real life, railriding, well, >hardly isn't. ;-) >Besides, it's hard to get a real good advantage from slipstreaming; >you still have to drive around the car in front of you, which is hard >to do without being bothered later on by your diversion of your >preferred driving line. My best time at Monza is a high 1:29. When I get "into the groove" I can do consistent low-mid 1:30's. It has often been the case that I've slipstreamed a car down the Rettifilo Centrale straight, or the main straight (sometimes even both!), and thought, "Yeah, my time for this lap is going to rock!" But when I find out the lap time, I invariably get disappointed, "1:30.80? I don't get it!" You're right, it is hard to get a real good advantage from slipstreaming. Bendito; P.S. I won my first novice Grand Prix last night - at Monza! :)

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (JS) writes:

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>Eldred, >I mean you have to check your own lap-times and disable warp-laps. People who >intentionally cheat only b--sht themselves. > >Jens > > >On 28 Jul 2000 15:34:35 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >> >>Yeah, but would you even KNOW what his previous PB was? Out of 600+ >drivers, I >>don't think so... >> >>Eldred

Ah, ok. Silly me...<g> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +52.52 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Eldred, I mean you have to check your own lap-times and disable warp-laps. People who intentionally cheat only b--sht themselves. Jens On 28 Jul 2000 15:34:35 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: > >Yeah, but would you even KNOW what his previous PB was? Out of 600+ drivers, I >don't think so... > >Eldred --------------------------------------------- LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at: http://members.xoom.com/JensSchu/ GPLRank: +1.80

Had the same when starting with GPLRank. Never raced Kya and Zandi before. But of course I don't do the first steps online, so no chance for warp-laps. Jens On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:01:50 +0200, Ronald Stoehr <[email hidden]> wrote: >Oh no, there are lots of tracks that I didn't drive on for more than a >couple >of laps, so if I find the time for them, I'm sure I will improve my lap >times >on those quite a bit (I'm neither a good nor dedicated GPL hotlapper...) --------------------------------------------- LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at: http://members.xoom.com/JensSchu/ GPLRank: +1.80