R: GP3 Physics Thoughts

> I think we should remember that driving a modern "real" car does not > feel like driving on ice. Consider that a modern F1 car has about 850 HP and at slow speeds aerodinamic forces don't help so much and the downforce is not so big. Have you ever seen the "in car camera" videos? The drivers is continuously fighting the car countersteering very hard. GP3 feels like the cars have no mass, no momentum. I think a good F1 sim has to use the GPL physics plus the aerodinamic addendum and other minor adjustments. N4 will be based on the GPL physics; I believe it would be possible to do the same thing with a modern era F1 sim. Stefano Serni

Stefano wrote: > > GP3 feels like the cars have no mass, no momentum. > I am glad to hear that! From my experience with tweaking the inertia parameters in F1 2000 towards physically possible values that's exactly how the modern F1 car should feel like. I can't wait to get GP3, and my first project will be to tweak F1 2000 car values so that they will mimic the car behaviour in GP3. I would not be surprised if the two sims will end up with a very similar feel, since if they are both true vehicle simulations that is what should indeed happen, meaning that we are slowly 'getting there'! -Gregor

Stefano <smailsORABASTACONLOSPAMMING!@tin.it> wrote: :> I think we should remember that driving a modern "real" car does not :> feel like driving on ice. : Consider that a modern F1 car has about 850 HP and at slow speeds : aerodinamic forces don't help so much and the downforce is not so big. Um... the downforce at even moderate speeds more than doubles the cars weight. The oft stated fact is that if the cars are generating so much downforce through the tunnel at Monaco then they could drive on the roof. A modern F1 shouldn't feel like a '67 F1 at all. : Have you ever seen the "in car camera" videos? : The drivers is continuously fighting the car countersteering very hard. Depends on the car and driver - that's usually a sign that the car is badly set up. If the driver is fighting the car it's because the car isn't really working well. -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York UPDATED WWW: http://manor.york.ac.uk/

[email hidden] wrote:

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> > In article <8lnejh$t8j$[email hidden]>, > "Stefano" <smailsORABASTACONLOSPAMMING!@tin.it> wrote: > > > I think we should remember that driving a modern "real" car does not > > > feel like driving on ice. > > > > Consider that a modern F1 car has about 850 HP and at slow speeds > > aerodinamic forces don't help so much and the downforce is not so big. > > > > Have you ever seen the "in car camera" videos? > > The drivers is continuously fighting the car countersteering very > hard. > > > > GP3 feels like the cars have no mass, no momentum. > > I think a good F1 sim has to use the GPL physics plus the aerodinamic > > addendum and other minor adjustments. > > I agree that the cars seem to lack that sensation of mass in GP3, but > are Greg Cisko and I the only ones who think F12K feels an *awful* lot > like "GPL physics plus the aerodynamic addendum and other minor > adjustments"?

Hmm, no. I think F12k (just like CPR) feels more like a bobby car pushed over something resembling F1 tracks after an earthquake (too bumpy). -- l8er ronny Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change to take effect. Reboot now? |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

No, I think that too. -- Pat Dotson [email hidden] wrote: > > > GP3 feels like the cars have no mass, no momentum. > > I think a good F1 sim has to use the GPL physics plus the aerodinamic > > addendum and other minor adjustments. > > I agree that the cars seem to lack that sensation of mass in GP3, but > are Greg Cisko and I the only ones who think F12K feels an *awful* lot > like "GPL physics plus the aerodynamic addendum and other minor > adjustments"?

Indeed, but it should still feel like a car and act like one. Neither is the case in Gp3. Jan. =--- <[email hidden]> wrote...

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> <snip> > AMEN! Thank you, Richard, thank you, thank you, > thank you! Now, everybody, repeat Richard's mantra > along with me: > > "A modern F1 shouldn't feel like a '67 F1 at all." > > Again, amen! > > -- JB > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.

In article <8lnejh$t8j$[email hidden]>, "Stefano" <smailsORABASTACONLOSPAMMING!@tin.it> wrote:

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> > I think we should remember that driving a modern "real" car does not > > feel like driving on ice. > > Consider that a modern F1 car has about 850 HP and at slow speeds > aerodinamic forces don't help so much and the downforce is not so big. > > Have you ever seen the "in car camera" videos? > The drivers is continuously fighting the car countersteering very

hard. > > GP3 feels like the cars have no mass, no momentum. > I think a good F1 sim has to use the GPL physics plus the aerodinamic > addendum and other minor adjustments. I agree that the cars seem to lack that sensation of mass in GP3, but are Greg Cisko and I the only ones who think F12K feels an *awful* lot like "GPL physics plus the aerodynamic addendum and other minor adjustments"? -- JB Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

In article <8lpb50$g7u$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] wrote: > Stefano <smailsORABASTACONLOSPAMMING!@tin.it> wrote: > :> I think we should remember that driving a modern "real" car doesnot > :> feel like driving on ice. > > : Consider that a modern F1 car has about 850 HP and at slow speeds > : aerodinamic forces don't help so much and the downforce is not sobig. > > Um... the downforce at even moderate speeds more than doubles thecars > weight. The oft stated fact is that if the cars are generating somuch > downforce through the tunnel at Monaco then they could drive on the > roof. A modern F1 shouldn't feel like a '67 F1 at all. AMEN! Thank you, Richard, thank you, thank you, thank you! Now, everybody, repeat Richard's mantra along with me: "A modern F1 shouldn't feel like a '67 F1 at all." Again, amen! -- JB Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.