Re: Sim-racing enthusiasts are strange

economcs Nope spelling : ) Just joshing Rowans BOB and B17 II are the one's I'm waiting for, but I guess this belongs in a different forum. Regards Mike On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 17:32:09 GMT, [email hidden] wrote:

Quoted text (28 lines)

>On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 16:24:22 +0100, Mike Blackmore ><[email hidden]> thus spoke: > >>The Chaff being.... >> >>F4 > >F4 made a profit. It's Hasbro that is the problem. > >>The Remaining wheat.... >> >>B17 II (If they don't can it) > >Battle of Britain >Commanche Hokum >IL2 Stormovik >MS Combat Flight Sim II (Pacific Theatre) > >>NOVALOGIC > >They don't count. > >>wow we really showed them good........ > >It's not *we* who showed them. The problem is that the publishers are >greedy bastards and do not share the love for flight sims that the >developers do. I guess your next move is to give me a lesson in >economcs 101.

In article <[email hidden]>, Mike Blackmore <[email hidden]> writes: >The Chaff being.... > >F4 >Janes Atack Squadron >Pacific Air War 2 Those three aren't any good? I always thought they WERE... Well, by word of mouth, anyway. Ok. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +69.95 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] writes: >Battle of Britain >Commanche Hokum >IL2 Stormovik >MS Combat Flight Sim II (Pacific Theatre) > Battle of Britain? By which publisher? Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +69.95 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

The Chaff being.... F4 Janes Atack Squadron Pacific Air War 2 The Remaining wheat.... B17 II (If they don't can it) NOVALOGIC wow we really showed them good........ Regards Mike On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 14:16:34 GMT, [email hidden] wrote:

Quoted text (10 lines)

>On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 08:17:21 -0500, rrevved ><[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > >>Yep, same thing happened with combat flight-sims. >>Now, there aren't any more. >> > >Sure there are. Just not as many as before. We've sorted the wheat >from the chaff.

The dynamic weather is a step forward from anything else avalaible in the genre. Regards Mike On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 01:04:04 GMT, [email hidden] wrote:

Quoted text (25 lines)

>I don't mean to sound offensive or self-righteous, but I think many of >my sim-racing brethren are a bit odd. > >Let me start off by saying that the last sim I bought was GPL. I am a >GPL fanatic, in fact I handle the GPL page at a very popular web site, >that does not mean I refuse to recognize anything besides GPL as a >racing sim. What it DOES mean, is that I will no longer accept >anything less than GPL in overall proficiency for my hard earned >monetary units. > >Reading the rather optimistic posts regarding GP3, mixed in amongst the >numberous ranting condemnations of the game, I'm surprised to see so >many people willing to pay for anything but the next step forward. >What is the point in supporting underachieving software production >teams? I did not buy NASCAR99, NASCAR3, NASCAR Legends or any of the >assorted upgrades because they DID NOT DELIVER THE GOODS. When a >company makes a leap forward and they or their competitors subsequently >fail to at LEAST reach that plateau again, they do not DESERVE to be >rewarded with your money. Does this not make sense? Rewarding >mediocrity does not encourage innovation. We should be looking ahead, >not to the side. > > >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ >Before you buy.

I don't mean to sound offensive or self-righteous, but I think many of my sim-racing brethren are a bit odd. Let me start off by saying that the last sim I bought was GPL. I am a GPL fanatic, in fact I handle the GPL page at a very popular web site, that does not mean I refuse to recognize anything besides GPL as a racing sim. What it DOES mean, is that I will no longer accept anything less than GPL in overall proficiency for my hard earned monetary units. Reading the rather optimistic posts regarding GP3, mixed in amongst the numberous ranting condemnations of the game, I'm surprised to see so many people willing to pay for anything but the next step forward. What is the point in supporting underachieving software production teams? I did not buy NASCAR99, NASCAR3, NASCAR Legends or any of the assorted upgrades because they DID NOT DELIVER THE GOODS. When a company makes a leap forward and they or their competitors subsequently fail to at LEAST reach that plateau again, they do not DESERVE to be rewarded with your money. Does this not make sense? Rewarding mediocrity does not encourage innovation. We should be looking ahead, not to the side. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 16:24:22 +0100, Mike Blackmore F4 made a profit. It's Hasbro that is the problem. Battle of Britain Commanche Hokum IL2 Stormovik MS Combat Flight Sim II (Pacific Theatre) They don't count. It's not *we* who showed them. The problem is that the publishers are greedy bastards and do not share the love for flight sims that the developers do. I guess your next move is to give me a lesson in economcs 101. -- Nos

On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 08:17:21 -0500, rrevved <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Yep, same thing happened with combat flight-sims. >Now, there aren't any more. > Sure there are. Just not as many as before. We've sorted the wheat from the chaff. -- Nos

On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 08:17:21 -0500 rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote: % On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 01:04:04 GMT, [email hidden] wrote: % > % >What is the point in supporting underachieving software production % >teams? I did not buy NASCAR99, NASCAR3, NASCAR Legends or any of the % >assorted upgrades because they DID NOT DELIVER THE GOODS. % Yep, same thing happened with combat flight-sims. % Now, there aren't any more. It's called survival of the fittest. Whomever delivers the goods gets the gold. Don't deliver, you get squat.... You don't get paid, you lose your job.... -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. [email hidden] http://www.teleport.com/~mcarver =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Chaff being Falcon 5.0, the F-15E upgrade to Falcon 4.0 and Jane's A-10 sim. But, we have Crimson Skys and Jetfighter IV to be our Midtown Madness style flight sim replacement wheat. [email hidden] wrote in message <[email hidden]>...

Quoted text (12 lines)

>On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 08:17:21 -0500, rrevved ><[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > >>Yep, same thing happened with combat flight-sims. >>Now, there aren't any more. >> > >Sure there are. Just not as many as before. We've sorted the wheat >from the chaff. >-- >Nos

On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 16:24:22 +0100, Mike Blackmore <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >The Chaff being.... > >F4 F4 made a profit. It's Hasbro that is the problem. >The Remaining wheat.... > >B17 II (If they don't can it) Battle of Britain Commanche Hokum IL2 Stormovik MS Combat Flight Sim II (Pacific Theatre) >NOVALOGIC They don't count. >wow we really showed them good........ It's not *we* who showed them. The problem is that the publishers are greedy bastards and do not share the love for flight sims that the developers do. I guess your next move is to give me a lesson in economcs 101. -- Nos

On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 12:41:40 -0400, "Don Buskirk" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Chaff being Falcon 5.0, the F-15E upgrade to Falcon 4.0 and Jane's A-10 sim. >But, we have Crimson Skys and Jetfighter IV to be our Midtown Madness style >flight sim replacement wheat. Read my above post. Anyway, I've got enough flight-sims to last me for quite some time. Things will eventually come full circle. It's not our fault if sims don't provide the publishers with a Ferrari in every household. If that's why they are in the business of flight-sims then they are in the wrong business to begin with. As I said, seperate the wheat from the chaff. There will alwasy be someone doing a flight-sim, and hopefully someone who actually cares about the quality of their product. -- Nos

<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8llde2$ipj$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (22 lines)

> I don't mean to sound offensive or self-righteous, but I think many of > my sim-racing brethren are a bit odd. > > Let me start off by saying that the last sim I bought was GPL. I am a > GPL fanatic, in fact I handle the GPL page at a very popular web site, > that does not mean I refuse to recognize anything besides GPL as a > racing sim. What it DOES mean, is that I will no longer accept > anything less than GPL in overall proficiency for my hard earned > monetary units. > > Reading the rather optimistic posts regarding GP3, mixed in amongst the > numberous ranting condemnations of the game, I'm surprised to see so > many people willing to pay for anything but the next step forward. > What is the point in supporting underachieving software production > teams? I did not buy NASCAR99, NASCAR3, NASCAR Legends or any of the > assorted upgrades because they DID NOT DELIVER THE GOODS. When a > company makes a leap forward and they or their competitors subsequently > fail to at LEAST reach that plateau again, they do not DESERVE to be > rewarded with your money. Does this not make sense? Rewarding > mediocrity does not encourage innovation. We should be looking ahead, > not to the side. >

Ah yes but was GP3 really a disappointment? As I said before. GP3 gave everything it promised and more. Can it really be Geoffs fault that all the wild ideas and fantasies people, had in their wishlists weren't added. I might ad the fact that unless Geoff is lurking around RAS he probably hasn't seen 99% of the things people wished for.

since apparently the weather isn't dynamic at all, only a pre-programmed pattern, I'm going to wait for WSC to give out this honor. Heck MGPRS2 had dynamic weather of some sort, this isn't new. Mike Blackmore <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (34 lines)

> The dynamic weather is a step forward from anything else avalaible in > the genre. > > Regards Mike > > > On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 01:04:04 GMT, [email hidden] wrote: > > >I don't mean to sound offensive or self-righteous, but I think many of > >my sim-racing brethren are a bit odd. > > > >Let me start off by saying that the last sim I bought was GPL. I am a > >GPL fanatic, in fact I handle the GPL page at a very popular web site, > >that does not mean I refuse to recognize anything besides GPL as a > >racing sim. What it DOES mean, is that I will no longer accept > >anything less than GPL in overall proficiency for my hard earned > >monetary units. > > > >Reading the rather optimistic posts regarding GP3, mixed in amongst the > >numberous ranting condemnations of the game, I'm surprised to see so > >many people willing to pay for anything but the next step forward. > >What is the point in supporting underachieving software production > >teams? I did not buy NASCAR99, NASCAR3, NASCAR Legends or any of the > >assorted upgrades because they DID NOT DELIVER THE GOODS. When a > >company makes a leap forward and they or their competitors subsequently > >fail to at LEAST reach that plateau again, they do not DESERVE to be > >rewarded with your money. Does this not make sense? Rewarding > >mediocrity does not encourage innovation. We should be looking ahead, > >not to the side. > > > > > >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > >Before you buy. >

"Mike Blackmore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (10 lines)

> economcs > > Nope spelling : ) > > Just joshing > > Rowans BOB and B17 II are the one's I'm waiting for, but I guess this > belongs in a different forum. > > Regards Mike

Mike, do you have any links to info on the B17 flight sim? I have a friend with a B17 cockpit (windows, instruments, seats radios etc, the nose is a fiberglass mold pulled from a 17). when I told him that I had heard of a B17 flight sim he was very interested in using it as part of the display. It's in one of the hotels in Laughlin, NV if you ever happen to get out that way. -- don New GPL Programs for the Converted Tracks: http://www.ianparker1.freeserve.co.uk/gpl/index.html http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/brucek/hmrc/index.htm

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] writes:

Quoted text (7 lines)

>On 26 Jul 2000 22:01:11 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) thus >spoke: > > >>Battle of Britain? By which publisher? > >Rowan. Same people who did Mig Alley. Should be very good.

Hmm. Never heard of them. I gotta do some web-surfing. I *love* WWII fighter combat... Pacific campaign mostly, but the Battle of Britain was great, too. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +69.95 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, rrevved <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (11 lines)

>On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 13:30:35 -0700, "Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> wrote: > >>since apparently the weather isn't dynamic at all, only a pre-programmed >>pattern, I'm going to wait for WSC to give out this honor. Heck MGPRS2 had >>dynamic weather of some sort, this isn't new. >> > >Did you expect it to link to the weather satellites or ? >How would you define 'dynamic weather'. >How many FPS are you willing to spend on it? >

Not many. I'd probably turn it off. I have enough problem in the dry. The only game that I actually LIKE a wet race is SCGT. I'm not sure why, though...but it's FUN. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +69.95 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

#Buy Jane's World War II Fighters and Microprose's European Air War. #They are precisely what you need. You will love them both! Ok, thanks a lot guys! --- Shellfer

Ah, should have come here long ago instead of looking for reviews on sites like Gamespot which hasn't got anything. #Buy Jane's World War II Fighters and Microprose's European Air War. #They are precisely what you need. You will love them both!

#even get Redbaron2 if u can find it, 64 player multiplayer arenas (free) and a blast #online, N.A, 90% of the people here only has 56K (max) access to the net. :p Some rich ones can afford the lam0 isdn connection. xDSL, Cable is practically unheard of here. Sad. --- Shellfer.

Kai who says it works to a programmed pattern ? Harjan said this : 'It's preprogrammed however, if you load a game the next session will be the same weather as before.' Then you jumped to this : 'so it really isn't "dynamic" at all then? How many different weather loops do they have for each track? Seems that you could realize which weather pattern your in and plan accordingly, which could severely hamper this feature.' Iv'e found this : Someone on this news group says something and it becomes true ? Before you race you are given a forecast showing percentage chance and severity of rain at half hourly intervals, this forecast may or may not be 100% accurate. Having put a lot of laps in at Spa (Seemingly the track with the highest prob of rain) I can see absolutely no pattern at all. I believe the weather is set by algorithm before the start of the race and not looked up from a table of weather patterns. Regards Mike On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 16:25:10 +0100, Mike Blackmore <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (33 lines)

>The dynamic weather is a step forward from anything else avalaible in >the genre. > >Regards Mike > > >On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 01:04:04 GMT, [email hidden] wrote: > >>I don't mean to sound offensive or self-righteous, but I think many of >>my sim-racing brethren are a bit odd. >> >>Let me start off by saying that the last sim I bought was GPL. I am a >>GPL fanatic, in fact I handle the GPL page at a very popular web site, >>that does not mean I refuse to recognize anything besides GPL as a >>racing sim. What it DOES mean, is that I will no longer accept >>anything less than GPL in overall proficiency for my hard earned >>monetary units. >> >>Reading the rather optimistic posts regarding GP3, mixed in amongst the >>numberous ranting condemnations of the game, I'm surprised to see so >>many people willing to pay for anything but the next step forward. >>What is the point in supporting underachieving software production >>teams? I did not buy NASCAR99, NASCAR3, NASCAR Legends or any of the >>assorted upgrades because they DID NOT DELIVER THE GOODS. When a >>company makes a leap forward and they or their competitors subsequently >>fail to at LEAST reach that plateau again, they do not DESERVE to be >>rewarded with your money. Does this not make sense? Rewarding >>mediocrity does not encourage innovation. We should be looking ahead, >>not to the side. >> >> >>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ >>Before you buy.

I've got them both. They are both classics. I know it's sounds silly but by both of them each has outstanding features EAW 100% Immersion : you are there !!!! the battles can have up to 256 planes in the sky, it has to be seen to be believed and lots of third party stuff. WW2 Fighters Eye Candy (Like wow), Fantastic dogfighting AI and the best loading and interface music in any sim. Regards Mike On Thu, 27 Jul 2000 15:15:17 +0800, Shellfer <[email hidden]> wrote: >Ah, should have come here long ago instead of looking for reviews on sites like >Gamespot which hasn't got anything. > >#Buy Jane's World War II Fighters and Microprose's European Air War. >#They are precisely what you need. You will love them both!

#>What is the point in supporting underachieving software production #>teams? I did not buy NASCAR99, NASCAR3, NASCAR Legends or any of the #>assorted upgrades because they DID NOT DELIVER THE GOODS. # #Yep, same thing happened with combat flight-sims. #Now, there aren't any more. Talking about that, you know of any good WWII combat flight sims, new or old? I've tried stuff like MS Flight Simulator, but it's too REAL for me i guess. Too many stuff to look out for. I want a game where I just need to go up and take some planes down. Just in case, I have X-Wing Alliance already - thanks. I bought the MS FF joystick just for the game! So any good WWII games? or WWI, heck. Thanks! :) --- Shellfer

rrevved wrote in message ... >Yep, same thing happened with combat flight-sims. >Now, there aren't any more. Il-2 Shturmovik, I think it's called. Coming out soon. Bendito;

Michael E. Carver wrote in message ... >% Yep, same thing happened with combat flight-sims. >% Now, there aren't any more. > >It's called survival of the fittest. Yeah, but extinction is so final. :) Bendito;

The trouble is, someone comes to market with a product that gets close to delivering and we are almost forced to buy it because there are so few offerings even worthy of a glance. If you ask me, the sim-racing genre is in danger of becoming everything it shouldn't be...compromised. In article <GoDf5.2313$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] wrote: > On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 08:17:21 -0500 rrevved<[email hidden]> wrote: > % On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 01:04:04 GMT, [email hidden] wrote: > > % > > % >What is the point in supporting underachieving software production > % >teams? I did not buy NASCAR99, NASCAR3, NASCAR Legends or any ofthe

Quoted text (11 lines)

> % >assorted upgrades because they DID NOT DELIVER THE GOODS. > > % Yep, same thing happened with combat flight-sims. > % Now, there aren't any more. > > It's called survival of the fittest. Whomever delivers the goods gets > the gold. Don't deliver, you get squat.... You don't get paid, you > lose your job.... > > -- > **************************** Michael E. Carver

************************* > Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. > [email hidden] http://www.teleport.com/~mcarver > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 20:27:33 +0100, "GraDee" <[email hidden]> thus spoke:

Quoted text (8 lines)

>Ah yes but was GP3 really a disappointment? As I said before. >GP3 gave everything it promised and more. Can it really be Geoffs fault that >all the wild ideas and fantasies people, had in their wishlists weren't >added. >I might ad the fact that unless Geoff is lurking around RAS he probably >hasn't seen 99% of the things people wished for. > >

Don't you think AI car sounds are a defacto standard by now? It's not some freakish wish, it should just be in the game. No excuses accepted. -- Nos

On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 20:28:26 +0100, Mike Blackmore <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >economcs > >Nope spelling : ) Grrrr! :-) >Rowans BOB and B17 II are the one's I'm waiting for, but I guess this >belongs in a different forum. You're probably right, but I have discussed racing sims in the flight-sim group in the past and was actually discussing wheels there today so hopefully no one will mind. -- Nos

On 26 Jul 2000 22:01:11 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) thus spoke: >Battle of Britain? By which publisher? Rowan. Same people who did Mig Alley. Should be very good. -- Nos

On 26 Jul 2000 22:01:12 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) thus spoke: >Those three aren't any good? I always thought they WERE... Well, by word of >mouth, anyway. Ok. He's being sarcastic. -- Nos

On Thu, 27 Jul 2000 10:08:52 +0800, Shellfer <[email hidden]> thus spoke:

Quoted text (7 lines)

>Talking about that, you know of any good WWII combat flight sims, new or old? >I've tried stuff like MS Flight Simulator, but it's too REAL for me i guess. Too >many stuff to look out for. I want a game where I just need to go up and take >some planes down. Just in case, I have X-Wing Alliance already - thanks. I >bought the MS FF joystick just for the game! > >So any good WWII games? or WWI, heck. Thanks! :)

The one for you would be Jane's WWII Fighters. Incredible grphics too. You can get it in a game bundle right now for cheep too. It has WWII Fighters, Jane's F15E (great F15 sim, but runs best with a Voodoo card) and Novalogic's Commanche (shovelware). It's generally agreed that Microprose's European Air War is the best of the WWII sims though. -- Nos

even get Redbaron2 if u can find it, 64 player multiplayer arenas (free) and a blast online, SKurj Shellfer wrote:

Quoted text (17 lines)

> #>What is the point in supporting underachieving software production > #>teams? I did not buy NASCAR99, NASCAR3, NASCAR Legends or any of the > #>assorted upgrades because they DID NOT DELIVER THE GOODS. > # > #Yep, same thing happened with combat flight-sims. > #Now, there aren't any more. > > Talking about that, you know of any good WWII combat flight sims, new or old? > I've tried stuff like MS Flight Simulator, but it's too REAL for me i guess. Too > many stuff to look out for. I want a game where I just need to go up and take > some planes down. Just in case, I have X-Wing Alliance already - thanks. I > bought the MS FF joystick just for the game! > > So any good WWII games? or WWI, heck. Thanks! :) > > --- > Shellfer

On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 13:30:35 -0700, "Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> wrote: >since apparently the weather isn't dynamic at all, only a pre-programmed >pattern, I'm going to wait for WSC to give out this honor. Heck MGPRS2 had >dynamic weather of some sort, this isn't new. I'd like you to expand on this one. Arguments, maybe? JoH

spoke: Rowan. Same people who did Mig Alley. Should be very good. -- Nos

spoke: He's being sarcastic. -- Nos

HUH, the majority of people in the world are on dial up... and it works for most, redbaron2 is the best ww1 sim of all time IMO Martyn_D Shellfer wrote:

Quoted text (11 lines)

> #even get Redbaron2 if u can find it, 64 player multiplayer arenas (free) and a > blast > #online, > > N.A, 90% of the people here only has 56K (max) access to the net. :p > > Some rich ones can afford the lam0 isdn connection. xDSL, Cable is practically > unheard of here. Sad. > > --- > Shellfer.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (10 lines)

> On Thu, 27 Jul 2000 19:03:00 -0700, "don hodgdon" > <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > > >Mike, do you have any links to info on the B17 flight sim? > >don > > http://www.bombs-away.net > http://www.b17flyingfortress.com/ > -- > Nos

excellent...thanks! don

On Thu, 27 Jul 2000 19:03:00 -0700, "don hodgdon" <[email hidden]> thus spoke:

Quoted text (8 lines)

>Mike, do you have any links to info on the B17 flight sim? I have a friend >with a B17 cockpit (windows, instruments, seats radios etc, the nose is a >fiberglass mold pulled from a 17). when I told him that I had heard of a B17 >flight sim he was very interested in using it as part of the display. It's >in one of the hotels in Laughlin, NV if you ever happen to get out that way. > >-- >don

http://www.bombs-away.net http://www.b17flyingfortress.com/ -- Nos

On Thu, 27 Jul 2000 19:03:00 -0700, "don hodgdon" http://www.bombs-away.net http://www.b17flyingfortress.com/ -- Nos