The AI, set at some consistent level, like 100%, vary dramatically from one
track to the next, ruining any ability to just get in and race.
Either the "race" set-ups suck at some tracks and are great at others, or
the AI speed sucks at some tracks and is great at others.
And I am comparing the lowest skill tracks--not trying a road course vs.
Daytona where there could be a million other driver-related factors.
For example, during practice, in the trucks, I can lead the pack with little
to no effort at Atlanta...then find I am at the back of the pack at
Michigan. Is Michigan actually a difficult track compared to Atlanta and no
one told me? Do the AI cars that can be blocked by me going into turn 1 and
then accelerate and blast past me like I was standing still (though I am
really scrabbling for grip around the corner) have some feature (like super
grip tires) that I am missing?
Sorry, but this was always my number one problem/complaint with the Papy
series and it seems to have been replicated here perfectly.
And for those who don't like offline racing, don't bother replying with the
usual "play online, the AI sucks anyway, always will, etc."
Marc
--
****************************************************************************
Marc Collins
[email hidden]
Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
to take effect. Reboot now?
****************************************************************************
...or an even better example: Atlanta vs. Texas...
Marc
"Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:VJIRd.34722$[email hidden]...
Quoted text (34 lines)
> The AI, set at some consistent level, like 100%, vary dramatically from > one track to the next, ruining any ability to just get in and race. > > Either the "race" set-ups suck at some tracks and are great at others, or > the AI speed sucks at some tracks and is great at others. > > And I am comparing the lowest skill tracks--not trying a road course vs. > Daytona where there could be a million other driver-related factors. > > For example, during practice, in the trucks, I can lead the pack with > little to no effort at Atlanta...then find I am at the back of the pack at > Michigan. Is Michigan actually a difficult track compared to Atlanta and > no one told me? Do the AI cars that can be blocked by me going into turn > 1 and then accelerate and blast past me like I was standing still (though > I am really scrabbling for grip around the corner) have some feature (like > super grip tires) that I am missing? > > Sorry, but this was always my number one problem/complaint with the Papy > series and it seems to have been replicated here perfectly. > > And for those who don't like offline racing, don't bother replying with > the usual "play online, the AI sucks anyway, always will, etc." > > Marc > > -- > **************************************************************************** > Marc Collins > [email hidden] > > Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change > to take effect. Reboot now? > **************************************************************************** >
"Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:VJIRd.34722$[email hidden]...
: The AI, set at some consistent level, like 100%, vary dramatically from
one
: track to the next, ruining any ability to just get in and race.
:
: Either the "race" set-ups suck at some tracks and are great at others, or
: the AI speed sucks at some tracks and is great at others.
:
: And I am comparing the lowest skill tracks--not trying a road course vs.
: Daytona where there could be a million other driver-related factors.
:
: For example, during practice, in the trucks, I can lead the pack with
little
: to no effort at Atlanta...then find I am at the back of the pack at
: Michigan. Is Michigan actually a difficult track compared to Atlanta and
no
: one told me? Do the AI cars that can be blocked by me going into turn 1
and
: then accelerate and blast past me like I was standing still (though I am
: really scrabbling for grip around the corner) have some feature (like
super
: grip tires) that I am missing?
:
: Sorry, but this was always my number one problem/complaint with the Papy
: series and it seems to have been replicated here perfectly.
:
: And for those who don't like offline racing, don't bother replying with
the
: usual "play online, the AI sucks anyway, always will, etc."
Just to give EA the benefit of the doubt here, but with a title with the
word Simulation in it, I would think multiplayer capabilities were much
higher on their list than AI performance. As we know they still have some
work to do on the multiplayer issue, so I would imagine any AI adjustments
are not something we're going to see any time soon.
"Bob V" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
normally I would agree with you, but there is the career mode in the
game/sim. with that there, you'd think they'd spend some time trying to get
the ai right.
just my 0.02 worth
cheers
steve
Quoted text (7 lines)
> > Just to give EA the benefit of the doubt here, but with a title with the > word Simulation in it, I would think multiplayer capabilities were much > higher on their list than AI performance. As we know they still have > some > work to do on the multiplayer issue, so I would imagine any AI adjustments > are not something we're going to see any time soon.
"Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:VJIRd.34722$[email hidden]...
Maybe I just like N2003 and papy but nsr seems arcadeish. I haven't spent
much time with it. Seems like there may be a few things one could take from
ea's release and add it to n2003 but I am a not surprisingly disappointed at
the future of nascar sims.
Anyhow to the post..I like offline racing and feel the latest ai mods for
n2k are very good. I did notice the ai levels in nsr are a bit puzzling. I
don't know if I will be able to spend the time with the game to tweak it to
a fun and challenging setting. I got blown away at irp then noticed the
same thing you did at a few other tracks.
Puzzling how this game got such good reviews.
DC
Quoted text (34 lines)
> The AI, set at some consistent level, like 100%, vary dramatically from > one track to the next, ruining any ability to just get in and race. > > Either the "race" set-ups suck at some tracks and are great at others, or > the AI speed sucks at some tracks and is great at others. > > And I am comparing the lowest skill tracks--not trying a road course vs. > Daytona where there could be a million other driver-related factors. > > For example, during practice, in the trucks, I can lead the pack with > little to no effort at Atlanta...then find I am at the back of the pack at > Michigan. Is Michigan actually a difficult track compared to Atlanta and > no one told me? Do the AI cars that can be blocked by me going into turn > 1 and then accelerate and blast past me like I was standing still (though > I am really scrabbling for grip around the corner) have some feature (like > super grip tires) that I am missing? > > Sorry, but this was always my number one problem/complaint with the Papy > series and it seems to have been replicated here perfectly. > > And for those who don't like offline racing, don't bother replying with > the usual "play online, the AI sucks anyway, always will, etc." > > Marc > > -- > **************************************************************************** > Marc Collins > [email hidden] > > Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change > to take effect. Reboot now? > **************************************************************************** >Quoted text (7 lines)
> > >Maybe I just like N2003 and papy but nsr seems arcadeish. I haven't spent >much time with it. Seems like there may be a few things one could take from >ea's release and add it to n2003 but I am a not surprisingly disappointed at >the future of nascar sims. >
"Tyler Eaves" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
I did that and the physics rate is set to 0. I am trying to get into it but
am having trouble. Will play with it over the next few days.
DC
Quoted text (13 lines)
> >> >> >>Maybe I just like N2003 and papy but nsr seems arcadeish. I haven't spent >>much time with it. Seems like there may be a few things one could take >>from >>ea's release and add it to n2003 but I am a not surprisingly disappointed >>at >>the future of nascar sims. >> > > Make sure you go into the options and turn traction control and the > like off.
"David Ciemny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
I am having mixed emotions..I had a nice cts race at phoenix..fairly hard to
pass. Then I went to daytona and one time down the back stretch I shot by
about 15 trucks..scraped the wall, kept going passed some more trucks. Mixed
emotions..
The vehicles aren't the slippidy slidey papy machines so they are hard to
get used to.
DC
Quoted text (22 lines)
> > "Tyler Eaves" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >> >>> >>> >>>Maybe I just like N2003 and papy but nsr seems arcadeish. I haven't spent >>>much time with it. Seems like there may be a few things one could take >>>from >>>ea's release and add it to n2003 but I am a not surprisingly disappointed >>>at >>>the future of nascar sims. >>> >> >> Make sure you go into the options and turn traction control and the >> like off. > > I did that and the physics rate is set to 0. I am trying to get into it > but am having trouble. Will play with it over the next few days. > > DC >> The vehicles aren't the slippidy slidey papy machines so they are hard to
> get used to.
They aren't? Interesting, that was always my biggest gripe with NR200X.
> The AI, set at some consistent level, like 100%, vary dramatically from
> one track to the next, ruining any ability to just get in and race.
I bet they are more consistent than we humans. I know I vary dramatically.
NR2003 or NSR. The only way to test the AI is do they run at typical race
lap times when set at 100%. If this is true then they are being consistent.
> one told me? Do the AI cars that can be blocked by me going into turn 1
> and then accelerate and blast past me like I was standing still (though I
> am really scrabbling for grip around the corner) have some feature (like
> super grip tires) that I am missing?
You can block them because they are not smart enough to use any driving line
to pass you. This is a bug I noticed while playing the demo. If an AI car
gets a run off a corner they will not pass you on the left down the straight
if you are in the "preferred" line. They will just slow down right behind
you. This is really noticeable at Indy with its long straights. While
playing Indy I really drive the corner entry. Which means I am sliding a bit
and thus have less grip. I really run up on an AI car then it pulls away
from me. When I did not overdrive the entry and let the car take a set, then
they would not pull me coming off. I you hit the gas before the car takes a
set then you get wheelspin and never accelerate like you otherwise can. This
reminded me of things I heard LarryMac say on FOX. Slow down to go faster.
I do think the AI get too careful when around other cars, especially us.
This does make for less wrecks, and you seem to run down side by side cars
too fast, but is a little annoying that the AI cars give up the position too
easily.
Norman
"Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:VJIRd.34722$[email hidden]...
Quoted text (34 lines)
> The AI, set at some consistent level, like 100%, vary dramatically from > one track to the next, ruining any ability to just get in and race. > > Either the "race" set-ups suck at some tracks and are great at others, or > the AI speed sucks at some tracks and is great at others. > > And I am comparing the lowest skill tracks--not trying a road course vs. > Daytona where there could be a million other driver-related factors. > > For example, during practice, in the trucks, I can lead the pack with > little to no effort at Atlanta...then find I am at the back of the pack at > Michigan. Is Michigan actually a difficult track compared to Atlanta and > no one told me? Do the AI cars that can be blocked by me going into turn > 1 and then accelerate and blast past me like I was standing still (though > I am really scrabbling for grip around the corner) have some feature (like > super grip tires) that I am missing? > > Sorry, but this was always my number one problem/complaint with the Papy > series and it seems to have been replicated here perfectly. > > And for those who don't like offline racing, don't bother replying with > the usual "play online, the AI sucks anyway, always will, etc." > > Marc > > -- > **************************************************************************** > Marc Collins > [email hidden] > > Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change > to take effect. Reboot now? > **************************************************************************** >You are missing my points.
The AI and/or the set-ups have to be calibrated against what the human
controlled car can do (which undoubtedly uses full physics while the AI use
a fudged version). If you can win without trying at one track and then the
next one leaves you at the back of the pack and then the next one has you
running a great competitive race, then either the AI is wonky or the set-ups
are wonky. Either way, career mode is ruined and you are left scratching
your head wondering why you seem like you can barely pass your street
drivers test at one event, but are the Cup champion at the next.
The blocking comment related to the fact that as the human controlled car
you cannot get bunched up behind a slightly slower AI car in the middle of
turn 1 at Michigan (for example) and then just floor it and pull out and
drive by them as though they were standing still. But apparently the AI can
do it to you. Someone has too much or too little grip in this scenario.
Marc
"Norman Black" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:CCRRd.13048$uc.10418@trnddc09...
Quoted text (71 lines)
>> The AI, set at some consistent level, like 100%, vary dramatically from >> one track to the next, ruining any ability to just get in and race. > > I bet they are more consistent than we humans. I know I vary dramatically. > NR2003 or NSR. The only way to test the AI is do they run at typical race > lap times when set at 100%. If this is true then they are being > consistent. > >> one told me? Do the AI cars that can be blocked by me going into turn 1 >> and then accelerate and blast past me like I was standing still (though I >> am really scrabbling for grip around the corner) have some feature (like >> super grip tires) that I am missing? > > You can block them because they are not smart enough to use any driving > line to pass you. This is a bug I noticed while playing the demo. If an AI > car gets a run off a corner they will not pass you on the left down the > straight if you are in the "preferred" line. They will just slow down > right behind you. This is really noticeable at Indy with its long > straights. While playing Indy I really drive the corner entry. Which means > I am sliding a bit and thus have less grip. I really run up on an AI car > then it pulls away from me. When I did not overdrive the entry and let the > car take a set, then they would not pull me coming off. I you hit the gas > before the car takes a set then you get wheelspin and never accelerate > like you otherwise can. This reminded me of things I heard LarryMac say on > FOX. Slow down to go faster. > > I do think the AI get too careful when around other cars, especially us. > This does make for less wrecks, and you seem to run down side by side cars > too fast, but is a little annoying that the AI cars give up the position > too easily. > > Norman > > "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:VJIRd.34722$[email hidden]... >> The AI, set at some consistent level, like 100%, vary dramatically from >> one track to the next, ruining any ability to just get in and race. >> >> Either the "race" set-ups suck at some tracks and are great at others, or >> the AI speed sucks at some tracks and is great at others. >> >> And I am comparing the lowest skill tracks--not trying a road course vs. >> Daytona where there could be a million other driver-related factors. >> >> For example, during practice, in the trucks, I can lead the pack with >> little to no effort at Atlanta...then find I am at the back of the pack >> at Michigan. Is Michigan actually a difficult track compared to Atlanta >> and no one told me? Do the AI cars that can be blocked by me going into >> turn 1 and then accelerate and blast past me like I was standing still >> (though I am really scrabbling for grip around the corner) have some >> feature (like super grip tires) that I am missing? >> >> Sorry, but this was always my number one problem/complaint with the Papy >> series and it seems to have been replicated here perfectly. >> >> And for those who don't like offline racing, don't bother replying with >> the usual "play online, the AI sucks anyway, always will, etc." >> >> Marc >> >> -- >> **************************************************************************** >> Marc Collins >> [email hidden] >> >> Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change >> to take effect. Reboot now? >> **************************************************************************** >> > >
>>I do think the AI get too careful when around other cars, especially us.
>>This does make for less wrecks, and you seem to run down side by side cars
Papy AI and too careful? Don't get me started. Papy's AI programmers
are completely bonkers.
The computer drivers have always been one of the weakest point of Papy
sims since GPL. I've had countless occasions where these numbnuts just
punted me from behind (or elsewhere) and shoved me off the track like I
wasn't there.
I will never, ever understand why the simplest "if AI car too close to
player's car, steer away from it or step on brake" rule wasn't strictly
implemented. Even with the lowest aggession setting in NR2k3 these
idiots punted me off from behind like I wasn't there. They drive like
brainless kamikazes. Consequently when close to any AI you're often
spending more time looking in your mirrors, avoiding possible AI shunts
than actually paying attention to the track, attacking 'the line' and
proper racing. Eejits!
Keelhauling is just about the friendliest thing these programmers
deserve. I hate these dumb*ss AI errors with a passion. Grrrr.
Regards, Rudy
(GPLRank -24)
"Ruud Dingemans" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:cvbc40$2vf$[email hidden]...
>
> >>I do think the AI get too careful when around other cars, especially us.
> >>This does make for less wrecks, and you seem to run down side by sidecars
Actually, they've been a weak point with Papy since 500. In a lot of
behavorial ways, haven't changed at all, which is amazing.
Quoted text (25 lines)
> > > > Papy AI and too careful? Don't get me started. Papy's AI programmers > are completely bonkers. > > The computer drivers have always been one of the weakest point of Papy > sims since GPL. I've had countless occasions where these numbnuts just > punted me from behind (or elsewhere) and shoved me off the track like I > wasn't there. > > I will never, ever understand why the simplest "if AI car too close to > player's car, steer away from it or step on brake" rule wasn't strictly > implemented. Even with the lowest aggession setting in NR2k3 these > idiots punted me off from behind like I wasn't there. They drive like > brainless kamikazes. Consequently when close to any AI you're often > spending more time looking in your mirrors, avoiding possible AI shunts > than actually paying attention to the track, attacking 'the line' and > proper racing. Eejits! > > Keelhauling is just about the friendliest thing these programmers > deserve. I hate these dumb*ss AI errors with a passion. Grrrr. > > Regards, Rudy > (GPLRank -24)> Papy AI and too careful? Don't get me started. Papy's AI programmers
> are completely bonkers.
We are talking about NSR AI and not Papy.
Norman
> The AI and/or the set-ups have to be calibrated against what the human
> controlled car can do (which undoubtedly uses full physics while the AI
> use a fudged version).
I disagree with this. The AI should be calibrated to what real cup drivers
typically run at a track when the AI are set at 100%. As for the default
setups, everyone has their own driving style and who is to say if someone
can keep up at say 97% with a given setup. Driver X might be able to whereas
I cannot. Too variable, you cannot calibrate such a situation. Look at the
middle of the pack team in real life. Some places they are competitive and
not others, and this is true even for some cookie cutter tracks due to
differences in track surface (bumps and such). If EA did not have one tester
create the setups then there certainly will be some consistency issues when
using stock setups.
Norman
"Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:GC9Sd.2045$[email hidden]...
