NSR - You really shouldn't be supporting this game...

If you believe this; http://www.livejournal.com/users/ea_spouse/274.html -- 1904 - Daytona Beach Florida Glenn H. Curtiss American aviation pioneer, makes first official 60mph motorcycle run. Powered by one of the first American made twin cylinder engines.

"REDLINE426" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> If you believe this; > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/ea_spouse/274.html > > -- > 1904 - Daytona Beach Florida > > Glenn H. Curtiss American aviation pioneer, makes first official 60mph > motorcycle run. > Powered by one of the first American made twin cylinder engines. >

If you started looking into all the bad things employers did to it's employees around the world you probably would find a lot worse stuff then this. Look at China for instance. You probably own a bunch of stuff that was made by a four year old in a sweatshop. Chances are your house was built by an underpaid illegal alien, and on and on....

In article <[email hidden]>, REDLINE426 says... > If you believe this; > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/ea_spouse/274.html Sheesh, welcome to the IT industry. I've been on call 72 hours straight and in an hour I'll be then required to come to work and work a full day. If I find this to be a problem, I could have done what ea_spouse should have done and found alternative employment. Cheers, Rod.

"RodP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MPG.1c83a1f9e21771009897c7@news-server...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, > REDLINE426 says... > >> If you believe this; >> >> http://www.livejournal.com/users/ea_spouse/274.html > > Sheesh, welcome to the IT industry. I've been on call 72 hours straight > and in an hour I'll be then required to come to work and work a full > day. If I find this to be a problem, I could have done what ea_spouse > should have done and found alternative employment. > > Cheers, > Rod.

It's not so much about the hours, but about the compensation. Read it all. -- 1904 - Daytona Beach Florida Glenn H. Curtiss American aviation pioneer, makes first official 60mph motorcycle run. Powered by one of the first American made twin cylinder engines.

"RodP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MPG.1c83a1f9e21771009897c7@news-server...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, > REDLINE426 says... > >> If you believe this; >> >> http://www.livejournal.com/users/ea_spouse/274.html > > Sheesh, welcome to the IT industry. I've been on call 72 hours straight > and in an hour I'll be then required to come to work and work a full > day. If I find this to be a problem, I could have done what ea_spouse > should have done and found alternative employment. > > Cheers, > Rod.

Welcome to consulting engineering firms as well. When the project is finished and there isn't another in the backlog to charge hours to you will be collecting unemploment. I left that world and took a position at Marconi Comunications in '99. Started with around 50k worldwide employees, now they are down to about 24k. Sold off our division to Emerson Electric. The shakeup in telecom ain't over yet. Hanging on but if there is anything constant it's change. Employers have been shafting the little guy before the industrial revolution.

With that kind of practise with time, EA will lose the best people first, then the good people, and finally the rest. Word spreads in this business like hell, and they won't get away with it. And they have lost a customer, right now, right here. No, I can't be certain about the worker conditions behind the stuff around me, but I can stop buying the stuff of which I hear bad things. I don't buy stuff from Israel if possible, and I won't buy stuff from EA. You can say I live on my own ideal planet, yes, but I am using my freedom to actually do something about something I feel is right/wrong, and that is infinately better than using freedom for nothing at all. ---A--- REDLINE426 wrote: > If you believe this; > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/ea_spouse/274.html >

In article <[email hidden]>, REDLINE426 says...

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> "RodP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:MPG.1c83a1f9e21771009897c7@news-server... > > In article <[email hidden]>, > > REDLINE426 says... > > > >> If you believe this; > >> > >> http://www.livejournal.com/users/ea_spouse/274.html > > > > Sheesh, welcome to the IT industry. I've been on call 72 hours straight > > and in an hour I'll be then required to come to work and work a full > > day. If I find this to be a problem, I could have done what ea_spouse > > should have done and found alternative employment. > > > > Cheers, > > Rod. > > It's not so much about the hours, but about the compensation. Read it all.

I read it all. I've been in the IT industry for 13 years now, it's not an unusual occurance, and the employee had the power to leave if the conditions were that unacceptable. Instead they chose to whinge about it on the net while he continued to work there! I can't sympathise with anyone who will complain about their conditions and not seek alternative employment. Cheers, Rod.

"REDLINE426" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> If you believe this; > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/ea_spouse/274.html > > -- > 1904 - Daytona Beach Florida > > Glenn H. Curtiss American aviation pioneer, makes first official 60mph > motorcycle run. > Powered by one of the first American made twin cylinder engines.

Boohoo, big deal. > >

"DJRJR" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MY4Sd.18447$[email hidden]...

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> > "REDLINE426" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >> If you believe this; >> >> http://www.livejournal.com/users/ea_spouse/274.html >> >> -- >> 1904 - Daytona Beach Florida >> >> Glenn H. Curtiss American aviation pioneer, makes first official 60mph >> motorcycle run. >> Powered by one of the first American made twin cylinder engines. >> > > If you started looking into all the bad things employers did to it's > employees around the world you probably would find a lot worse stuff then > this. Look at China for instance. You probably own a bunch of stuff that > was made by a four year old in a sweatshop. Chances are your house was > built by an underpaid illegal alien, and on and on.... >

Yea I *try* not to buy anything made in China or for that matter the Far East. The flea market is a good source to keep your dollar from going overseas these days. "Underpaid illegal alien" built the house that I live in? I doubt it as the house is over 100 years old. Immigrants built it for sure but most likely 2nd generation immigrants.

"The current mandatory hours are 9am to 10pm -- seven days a week -- with the occasional Saturday evening off for good behavior (at 6:30pm). " Jeez... Might as well join the Military! -Larry "REDLINE426" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> If you believe this; > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/ea_spouse/274.html > > -- > 1904 - Daytona Beach Florida > > Glenn H. Curtiss American aviation pioneer, makes first official 60mph > motorcycle run. > Powered by one of the first American made twin cylinder engines. >

That doesn't make it right... -Larry "DJRJR" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MY4Sd.18447$[email hidden]... > If you started looking into all the bad things employers did to it's > employees around the world you probably would find a lot worse stuff then > this. Look at China for instance. You probably own a bunch of stuff that > was made by a four year old in a sweatshop. Chances are your house was > built by an underpaid illegal alien, and on and on.... >

If GPL would have been made by child labor in Indonesia I most likely would still have bought and played it. Let those that live for punishing corporations fight these battles. I would rather improve my lap times. "REDLINE426" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> If you believe this; > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/ea_spouse/274.html > > -- > 1904 - Daytona Beach Florida > > Glenn H. Curtiss American aviation pioneer, makes first official 60mph > motorcycle run. > Powered by one of the first American made twin cylinder engines. >

"Tiny Lund" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > If GPL would have been made by child labor in Indonesia I most likelywould > still have bought and played it. Let those that live for punishing > corporations fight these battles. I would rather improve my lap times. Hehe, yep. For that matter, one wonders the reasons Sierra/Papy started using almost exclusively Russian 3d artists, etc. a few years back..........work for low wages, etc. comparatively maybe ? Could be wrong, but I doubt it was because Eastern Europe/Russia is the hotbed of pc 3d graphics design.

RodP wrote:

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> In article <[email hidden]>, > REDLINE426 says... > > >>If you believe this; >> >>http://www.livejournal.com/users/ea_spouse/274.html > > > Sheesh, welcome to the IT industry. I've been on call 72 hours straight > and in an hour I'll be then required to come to work and work a full > day. If I find this to be a problem, I could have done what ea_spouse > should have done and found alternative employment. > > Cheers, > Rod.

Thanks for this reasonable response. No kidding. I agree, if you don't like the job, find another one.

"JP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:g8bSd.170$[email hidden]...

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> > "Tiny Lund" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > If GPL would have been made by child labor in Indonesia I most likely > would > > still have bought and played it. Let those that live for punishing > > corporations fight these battles. I would rather improve my lap times. > > > > Hehe, yep. For that matter, one wonders the reasons Sierra/Papy started > using almost exclusively Russian 3d artists, etc. a few years > back..........work for low wages, etc. comparatively maybe ? > Could be wrong, but I doubt it was because Eastern Europe/Russia is the > hotbed of pc 3d graphics design.

Haven't you ever heard of those "Georgian" Nascar rednecks ? ;o) Elrikk

Larry wrote:

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> "The current mandatory hours are 9am to 10pm -- seven days a week -- with > the occasional Saturday evening off for good behavior (at 6:30pm). " > > Jeez... Might as well join the Military! > > -Larry > > "REDLINE426" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >> If you believe this; >> >> http://www.livejournal.com/users/ea_spouse/274.html >> >> -- >> 1904 - Daytona Beach Florida >> >> Glenn H. Curtiss American aviation pioneer, makes first official 60mph >> motorcycle run. >> Powered by one of the first American made twin cylinder engines. >>

Maybe the Navy starts works at 9am but the real military starts its day just a bit earlier ;) Mitch -- Remove "nospam." to reply. SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

"REDLINE426" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > If you believe this; > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/ea_spouse/274.html > Is it fair and just if true? No, but nothing has changed from day one in this indusrtry. I started programming in 1974 and lasted until 1979. I worked 90 hours some weeks in order to achieve project deadlines. I rarely worked a 40 hour work week which was the salaried time I had been led to believe I would be working when I was hired. I have had situations where I was called into work at 7.30 am and was still there at 2.30 am the next morning and was back in again at 7.30 am. I was given special favours on occasion by senior management even though my immediate bosses didn't approve. The hours forced me to become a better programmer and made me a much more efficient manager of my time. When I left the company they were forced to hire two people to do the job I did by myself and at a higher pay. I got even by not sharing all the secrets that I learned over a period of 5 years which cut coding time significantly. The moral of the story was that they became clients of mine and I made far more money in consultation fees than they ever paid me as an employee. It's a case of free choice. I used the opportunity as a learning tool that paid huge dividends when I moved on to bigger and better things. It's a case of supply and demand if people are willing to put up with poor working conditions and low pay the onus is on them to deal with it. If EA is breaking the law there are ways to deal with that as well. Do I like EA? No! But if they produce a good product that won't stop me from purchasing it. As an aside, I for the first time bought NSR and think they have done a decent job. It still needs many bugs addressed but it is a huge step in the right direction for them. Pete

Well, that's true, but I was more into the 13 hour day part :) I've did months on end of port/starboard duty. Now THAT sucked. -Larry "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:D%eSd.3583$[email hidden]... > Larry wrote: > > > "The current mandatory hours are 9am to 10pm -- seven days a week -- with

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> > the occasional Saturday evening off for good behavior (at 6:30pm). " > > > > Jeez... Might as well join the Military! > > > > -Larry > > > > "REDLINE426" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > >> If you believe this; > >> > >> http://www.livejournal.com/users/ea_spouse/274.html > >> > >> -- > >> 1904 - Daytona Beach Florida > >> > >> Glenn H. Curtiss American aviation pioneer, makes first official 60mph > >> motorcycle run. > >> Powered by one of the first American made twin cylinder engines. > >> > > Maybe the Navy starts works at 9am but the real military starts its day

just > a bit earlier ;) > > Mitch > -- > Remove "nospam." to reply. > SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

Larry wrote: > Well, that's true, but I was more into the 13 hour day part :) > > I've did months on end of port/starboard duty. Now THAT sucked. > > -Larry I dont know exactly what that is but it sure doesnt sound very fun :) CQ or firegaurd are the terms that comes to my mind as Army equivalents. -- Remove "nospam." to reply. SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

6 hrs on, 6 hrs off. 6 hrs on, 6 hrs off. 6 hrs on, 6 hrs off. Repeat, many times, for 6 months. And if there are Drills, compartment cleaning, GQ, etc... during your 'off' segment tough shit. No one ever advertised it as a pleasure cruise :) -Larry "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:tNrSd.2465$[email hidden]...

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> Larry wrote: > > > Well, that's true, but I was more into the 13 hour day part :) > > > > I've did months on end of port/starboard duty. Now THAT sucked. > > > > -Larry > > I dont know exactly what that is but it sure doesnt sound very fun :) CQ

or > firegaurd are the terms that comes to my mind as Army equivalents. > > -- > Remove "nospam." to reply. > SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XnLSd.1452$7z6.906@lakeread04...

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>6 hrs on, 6 hrs off. 6 hrs on, 6 hrs off. 6 hrs on, 6 hrs off. Repeat, > many times, for 6 months. > > And if there are Drills, compartment cleaning, GQ, etc... during your > 'off' > segment tough shit. > > No one ever advertised it as a pleasure cruise :) > > -Larry

Port and Starboard duty was 12 on and 12 off when I was in....... Showing some age here.....:-). We did not have to stand for inspections or any other duty besides GQ drills while we were on P&S duty. Ed

Ed Medlin wrote:

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> > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:XnLSd.1452$7z6.906@lakeread04... >>6 hrs on, 6 hrs off. 6 hrs on, 6 hrs off. 6 hrs on, 6 hrs off. Repeat, >> many times, for 6 months. >> >> And if there are Drills, compartment cleaning, GQ, etc... during your >> 'off' >> segment tough shit. >> >> No one ever advertised it as a pleasure cruise :) >> >> -Larry > > Port and Starboard duty was 12 on and 12 off when I was in....... Showing > some age here.....:-). We did not have to stand for inspections or any > other duty besides GQ drills while we were on P&S duty. > > Ed

why am I not suprised the Navy has GQ ;) I woulda though cosmo was a better fit for the Navy ;) Mitch -- Remove "nospam." to reply. SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 09:57:35 -0500, "Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> Do I like EA? No! But if they produce a good product that won't stop me >from purchasing it. >As an aside, I for the first time bought NSR and think they have done a >decent job. It still needs >many bugs addressed but it is a huge step in the right direction for them. > > Pete >

The other factor that will keep me from buying anything from EA is now the fact that they are the only show in town. By buying exclusive rights to nascar, they have little to no incentive to fix anything until nascar 2006 or beyond. Offer low pay/hour worked and piss the money away on exclusive rights so that you don't have to make a stellar product to compete in the marketplace. Nascar already got their money, I'm sure they really care if EA accurately depicts their "sport" other than to make sure that track debris yellow flags get deployed whenever born lucky Jr gets behind.

DJRJR wrote: > If you started looking into all the bad things employers did to it's > employees around the world you probably would find a lot worse stuff then > this. Look at China for instance. You probably own a bunch of stuff that was > made by a four year old in a sweatshop. Yes, but the poor underpaid Chinaman was probably manufacturing under contract for Disney or such like. You think China is screwing you, but actually some US corp is screwing you and him...

JP wrote: > Boohoo, big deal. First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me. For your sake I hope your fellow man does not say "boohoo, big deal" when you are in trouble....

"not spam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 09:57:35 -0500, "Pete" <[email hidden]> > wrote: >> The other factor that will keep me from buying anything from EA is now > the fact that they are the only show in town. By buying exclusive > rights to nascar, they have little to no incentive to fix anything > until nascar 2006 or beyond. Offer low pay/hour worked and piss the > money away on exclusive rights so that you don't have to make a > stellar product to compete in the marketplace. Nascar already got > their money, I'm sure they really care if EA accurately depicts their > "sport" other than to make sure that track debris yellow flags get > deployed whenever born lucky Jr gets behind.

I agree with your thoughts for the most part but everything tends to run in cycles and with the state of the software industry at the moment I'm not sure where EA will even be in a year or two. EA at one time paid some of the highest saleries in the industry and they stole a lot of good people from other companies. I could tell you an interesting story of one of the early purchases but I don't have the energy to do the story justice at the moment. If EA pays it's employees crap wages then the onus is on the individual to demand better compensation or leave. If they are good enough they will be able to be compensated accordingly. No one forced them to work for EA. Too many people don't know how to market their skills and end up selling themselves short. I'm not a fan of EA but if I was an employee I would use my feet to show them my feelings. EA will pay what the market will bare and if there is a glut of qualified people willing to work for substandard wages that's not EA's fault. If their products blow the big one the sales won't be there. The consumers will vote with their pocket books on whether they are doing a good job or not. If they don't make the grade those multi-million dollar exclusivity deals will blow up in their faces. This very scenario took place in the mid 80's and a lot of software companies were gone over night. Monopolies hurt all of us but our freemarket supply and demand economics will have the final say on EA and their tactics. Pete

Well said! "John Wallace" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> JP wrote: > >> Boohoo, big deal. > > First they came for the Jews > and I did not speak out > because I was not a Jew. > Then they came for the Communists > and I did not speak out > because I was not a Communist. > Then they came for the trade unionists > and I did not speak out > because I was not a trade unionist. > Then they came for me > and there was no one left > to speak out for me. > > For your sake I hope your fellow man does not say "boohoo, big deal" when > you are in trouble....