Re: what?!...castrate yet another circuit?!!!

I believe some of the reasons it may be shortened is that 1) spectators rarely see the cars as the vast majority of scectators is in the start/finish-section and 2) the EcclestoneMoneyMaking-machine needs more cash, so they thought this up: the shorter the track, the more often the cars will pass start/finish AND THE AD-BOARDS!!!! Jeez, dim-wits... why don't they start racing on half-mile ovals?!!?!!! > SHORTEN hockenheim?!!!!....are they like..completly and utterly mad?!! > So many circuits have allready been wrecked by the safety idiots, and > now hockenheim will be castrated....?..anyone know more about these > plans? >

Hi, Anyone know more about this? Was watching the GP hock yesterday... lovely race for a change... Now at a certain point that idiot person who walked onto the circuit caused a safety car situation... While that was ahppening the TV commentator said something about there being plans to shorten the hockenheim circuit cause security couldn't keep up...with all the woods and such.... SHORTEN hockenheim?!!!!....are they like..completly and utterly mad?!! So many circuits have allready been wrecked by the safety idiots, and now hockenheim will be castrated....?..anyone know more about these plans? The safety idiocy has gone far enough... Imola was raped after senna died there, i was a huge senna fan....but geez...people die driving at speeds like this...doesn't happen often thank God but the risk is there... Say all you want about the americans, they are focussed on safety aswell ..but at least they seem to be able to see it in perpective if a driver dies...it's sad but it happens...they don't start putting chicanes in their ovals..VBG. I've been a F1 fan for about 17 years now..and with horror watched the " chicane mania" developing...and the wussy drivers surfacing.. Soon all we'll have is chicanes and more chicanes....and a bunch of wuss drivers complaining that 'weeeeeeehhh...the other guy was 1 meter behind me at the straight...that's dangerous..i want my maaaaaammmmyyy.' For years now i've been living in fear eau rouge will soon be 'altered' aswell....wouldn't be suprised if it happened.. Anyways.....to that little focking troll eccelstone...stop castrating the circuits you little annoying piece of shit... Needed to get that of my chest... cheers, Willem.

Did you watch the GP yesterday??? Andrew.

2nd attempt at posting...newsserver messed up Hi, Anyone know more about this? Was watching the GP hock yesterday... lovely race for a change... Now at a certain point that idiot person who walked onto the circuit caused a safety car situation... While that was ahppening the TV commentator said something about there being plans to shorten the hockenheim circuit cause security couldn't keep up...with all the woods and such.... SHORTEN hockenheim?!!!!....are they like..completly and utterly mad?!! So many circuits have allready been wrecked by the safety idiots, and now hockenheim will be castrated....?..anyone know more about these plans? The safety idiocy has gone far enough... Imola was raped after senna died there, i was a huge senna fan....but geez...people die driving at speeds like this...doesn't happen often thank God but the risk is there... Say all you want about the americans, they are focussed on safety aswell ..but at least they seem to be able to see it in perpective if a driver dies...it's sad but it happens...they don't start putting chicanes in their ovals..VBG. I've been a F1 fan for about 17 years now..and with horror watched the " chicane mania" developing...and the wussy drivers surfacing.. Soon all we'll have is chicanes and more chicanes....and a bunch of wuss drivers complaining that 'weeeeeeehhh...the other guy was 1 meter behind me at the straight...that's dangerous..i want my maaaaaammmmyyy.' For years now i've been living in fear eau rouge will soon be 'altered' aswell....wouldn't be suprised if it happened.. Anyways.....to that little focking troll eccelstone...stop castrating the circuits you little annoying piece of shit... Needed to get that of my chest... cheers, Willem.

wsa <[email hidden]> wrote: : Hi, : Anyone know more about this? : Was watching the GP hock yesterday... : lovely race for a change... : Now at a certain point that idiot person who walked onto the circuit : caused a safety car situation... : While that was ahppening the TV commentator said something about there : being plans to shorten the hockenheim circuit cause security couldn't : keep up...with all the woods and such.... Well come on - Hockenheim is mostly a pretty tedious circuit - it's needed SOMETHING doing to it for a while. Those long straights don't exactly make for interesting racing or a great contest of driver skill - if I want to watch people blast along straights I'll go to a drag strip. -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York UPDATED WWW: http://manor.york.ac.uk/

"wsa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Hi, > > Anyone know more about this? > > Was watching the GP hock yesterday... > lovely race for a change... > > Now at a certain point that idiot person who walked onto the circuit > caused a safety car situation... > While that was ahppening the TV commentator said something about there > being plans to shorten the hockenheim circuit cause security couldn't > keep up...with all the woods and such.... > SHORTEN hockenheim?!!!!....are they like..completly and utterly mad?!! > So many circuits have allready been wrecked by the safety idiots, and > now hockenheim will be castrated....?..anyone know more about these > plans?

In the Autosport magazine (see www.autosport.com), there has been a story.

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> > The safety idiocy has gone far enough... > Imola was raped after senna died there, i was a huge senna fan....but > geez...people die driving at speeds like this...doesn't happen often > thank God but the risk is there... > Say all you want about the americans, they are focussed on safety > aswell ..but at least they seem to be able to see it in perpective if > a driver dies...it's sad but it happens...they don't start putting > chicanes in their ovals..VBG. > > I've been a F1 fan for about 17 years now..and with horror watched the > " chicane mania" developing...and the wussy drivers surfacing.. > Soon all we'll have is chicanes and more chicanes....and a bunch of > wuss drivers complaining that 'weeeeeeehhh...the other guy was 1 meter > behind me at the straight...that's dangerous..i want my > maaaaaammmmyyy.' > For years now i've been living in fear eau rouge will soon be > 'altered' aswell....wouldn't be suprised if it happened.. > > Anyways.....to that little focking troll eccelstone...stop castrating > the circuits you little annoying piece of shit... > > Needed to get that of my chest...

I do agree with you. E&M (Ecclestone and Mosley) have been truning GP racing into only a money making machine. Before they took over and established their dictatorial reign F1 was a real sport. Now it's a circus. - Only VIPs that don't see the diffence between a Minardi and a McLaren (such as Hakkinen's chick) are allowed in the paddoc, not the true fans - Circuis have been mutilated in order to make things safe although recent crashes have shown that the cars are safe enough to do without an excess of speed-limiting measures. - Some of the most interesting circuits have dissappeared because they weren't profitable to Eccle$tone, such as Zandvoort, Paul Ricard, Mexico, Kyalami - Grids have been cutted to 22 cars; 10 years ago about 35-40 cars would enter a grandprix - Regulations are made to discourage overtaking (Mosley: "Excessive Overtaking is too confusing for the average audience") - The difference between the have's and the have-not's has grown out of proprortions. 4 cars race for victory, 18 race for 5th - Over the last 20 years, all non-championship races have dissappeared I really hope that the CART races in Britain and germany will be a huge succes ant that CART will pass F1 as the top-openwheeled series. I realise that the racing cannot be as it was in the 60s and 70s, but I think it can be close, competitive racing on challenging circuits with teams and drivers that are accessible. Just like CART. grtngs, hgrm > > cheers, > Willem.

On 31 Jul 2000 15:30:57 GMT, Richard G Clegg <[email hidden]> wrote: > Well come on - Hockenheim is mostly a pretty tedious circuit - it's >needed SOMETHING doing to it for a while. Those long straights don't >exactly make for interesting racing or a great contest of driver skill - >if I want to watch people blast along straights I'll go to a drag strip. >Did you watch the GP yesterday??? Andrew.

aep@nospam writeme.com wrote: : On 31 Jul 2000 15:30:57 GMT, Richard G Clegg <[email hidden]> wrote: :> Well come on - Hockenheim is mostly a pretty tedious circuit - it's :>needed SOMETHING doing to it for a while. Those long straights don't :>exactly make for interesting racing or a great contest of driver skill - :>if I want to watch people blast along straights I'll go to a drag strip. :> : Did you watch the GP yesterday??? Indeed - but it wasn't exciting coz of the massive straights now was it? Normally Hockenheim is a pretty boring race. -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York UPDATED WWW: http://manor.york.ac.uk/

On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 17:34:49 +0200, "Han Monsees" <[email hidden]> wrote: >- Some of the most interesting circuits have dissappeared because they >weren't profitable to Eccle$tone, such as Zandvoort, Paul Ricard, Mexico, >Kyalami Huh? Zandvoort was unsafe, Paul Ricard is a few chicanes and one freeway in the middle of nowhere, Herman Rodriguez has been torn down after it became too worn out to race on and Kyalami is just too remote and doesn't attract enough spectators. >- Grids have been cutted to 22 cars; 10 years ago about 35-40 cars would >enter a grandprix Most of them couldn't even make a decent lap in prequal let alone finish a race.

Tony Rickard <[email hidden]> wrote: : Hockenheim usually is on my list of dull races - where cars qualify in : performance order and then just go away from each other on those long : straights. Indeed. : Without the safety car & rain Rubens got from 18th to 3rd, and that wasn't : simply driving by on the straight bits - most were quality passes under : braking. Where else could we have seen that this year? It certainly won't be : repeated at Hungary! Hungary hashad some exciting races in recent years. I prefer the "mickey mouse" circuits to boring straights like 80% of Hockenheim. Where's the driver skill in just pushing the accelerator? Not to say it wasn't a fine drive by Rubinho of course : F1 just need to work out how to engineer mixed up grids :-) (Grin) -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York UPDATED WWW: http://manor.york.ac.uk/

I think a lot of it has to do with taste... Can't say i'm a huge fan of hockenheim as it is now... But it's the principle of changing circuits...just so it's 'safer' silverstone had it's balls removed by them 2 chicanes... imola had it's balls removed by another 2 or 3 chicanes... List goes on... willem On 31 Jul 2000 18:04:56 GMT, Richard G Clegg <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Tony Rickard <[email hidden]> wrote: >: Hockenheim usually is on my list of dull races - where cars qualify in >: performance order and then just go away from each other on those long >: straights. > Indeed. >: Without the safety car & rain Rubens got from 18th to 3rd, and that wasn't >: simply driving by on the straight bits - most were quality passes under >: braking. Where else could we have seen that this year? It certainly won't be >: repeated at Hungary! > Hungary hashad some exciting races in recent years. I prefer the >"mickey mouse" circuits to boring straights like 80% of Hockenheim. >Where's the driver skill in just pushing the accelerator?

Hockenheim usually is on my list of dull races - where cars qualify in performance order and then just go away from each other on those long straights. Chuck in a bit of weather and a mixed up grid and at least they can overtake. Even then they need pretty well the whole straight to get alongside which makes for exciting passes in the braking zones. Without the safety car & rain Rubens got from 18th to 3rd, and that wasn't simply driving by on the straight bits - most were quality passes under braking. Where else could we have seen that this year? It certainly won't be repeated at Hungary! F1 just need to work out how to engineer mixed up grids :-) Tony "Richard G Clegg" wrote

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> :> Well come on - Hockenheim is mostly a pretty tedious circuit - it's > :>needed SOMETHING doing to it for a while. Those long straights don't > :>exactly make for interesting racing or a great contest of driver skill - > :>if I want to watch people blast along straights I'll go to a drag strip. > :> > : Did you watch the GP yesterday??? > > Indeed - but it wasn't exciting coz of the massive straights now was > it? Normally Hockenheim is a pretty boring race.

Didn't they castrate it by adding the awfull chicanes in 1970 or so?? The last few years they made the Senna chicane even narrower. I think it should be possible to keep the character of the tracks and still shorten it. I just hope they keep it a fast track. I hope they add a high speed corner at the curent Jim Clark chicane. You have to admit that the Ostcurve was destroyed many years ago, right now its the most ugly chicane of all. Im not against changing the track.

"Toni Lassila" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 17:34:49 +0200, "Han Monsees"<[email hidden]> > wrote: > >- Some of the most interesting circuits have dissappeared because they > >weren't profitable to Eccle$tone, such as Zandvoort, Paul Ricard, Mexico, > >Kyalami > > Huh? Zandvoort was unsafe, Paul Ricard is a few chicanes and one freewayin the > middle of nowhere, Herman Rodriguez has been torn down after it became tooworn > out to race on and Kyalami is just too remote and doesn't attract enough > spectators. Zandvoort unsafe???? Maybe some runn-offs should be added or some barriers should be moved, but it was certainly not less safe than the average circuit. About Paul Ricard: it was liked by the driver (although it was not of the calibre of Rouen, Clermont-Ferrant or Reims. Now it is replaced by a another circuit in the middle of nowhere with no straights, no athmosphere and which dravers dislike. Herman Rodriguez had a perfect combination of aa faat part and a technical infield. It could easily have been saved if Eccle$tone had put in some of his millions. And racing in South Africa was always popular. In the 60s and 70s, in december/januari, the whole F1 went to South Africa for soem non-championship race, and the RSA-GP because it was so populair there. And it is alot less remote than Sepang > > >- Grids have been cutted to 22 cars; 10 years ago about 35-40 cars would > >enter a grandprix > > Most of them couldn't even make a decent lap in prequal let alone finish arace. In 1990 there were 40 cars entered, maybe 4 or 8 were not raceworthy (Andrea Moda, Life etc) . The other worst of the other 32 or 36 were not worse than Prost or Minardi are today. In those day's the middfield was so compatitive that a driver could score point in one race but fail to qualify the next. grtngs, hgrm

<aep@nospam writeme.com> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On 31 Jul 2000 15:30:57 GMT, Richard G Clegg <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > Well come on - Hockenheim is mostly a pretty tedious circuit - it's > >needed SOMETHING doing to it for a while. Those long straights don't > >exactly make for interesting racing or a great contest of driver skill - > >if I want to watch people blast along straights I'll go to a drag strip. > > > Did you watch the GP yesterday??? > > Andrew.

With proper aerodynamic rules, long straights provide slipstreaming and overtaking. If you don't believe me, read a report of a Grandprix in Monza from the 50s, 60s or 70s. In 1971, Peter Gethin won a race-long slipstream-battle with only 0,01 secs. grtngs, hgrm

In article <YXih5.1110$[email hidden]>, "Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Without the safety car & rain Rubens got from 18th to 3rd, and that wasn't >simply driving by on the straight bits - most were quality passes under >braking. Where else could we have seen that this year? It certainly won't be >repeated at Hungary! > >F1 just need to work out how to engineer mixed up grids :-) > >Tony >

Random lottery. I mean, you don't get a championship point for pole position, so why not? Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +59.33 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <8m46bp$ge7$[email hidden]>, "Han Monsees" <[email hidden]> writes: >- Regulations are made to discourage overtaking (Mosley: "Excessive >Overtaking is too confusing for the average audience") Now *that's* just stupid. When did he say that? Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +59.33 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I disagree. The amount of overtaking that took place by Barichelo and Button, for example, was only possible because of the long straights and long braking areas. The circuit may indeed be boring to drive around, but for racing it is IMHO great. -Gregor Richard G Clegg wrote:

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> > Indeed - but it wasn't exciting coz of the massive straights now was > it? Normally Hockenheim is a pretty boring race. > > -- > Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving > Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group > Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York > UPDATED WWW: http://manor.york.ac.uk/