Well Thought Out Review/Complaint of NSR

Posted by "Mr. Nobody" at the OLR Forum. Direct link: http://www.onlineracin.com/forum/tm.asp?m=41533 "I would like to start by saying I truly enjoy the way the car drives. The movement of the cockpit (Head movement on 100%) is incredible. You truly feel the car. There are some things I seen running a league that must be addressed: A. Cheating is worse right now on NSR than one could have ever imagined. 1.-Why Do you allow those who edit the physics to still join the server? -So far I have been able to race online in servers after I modified by Ristrictor plate file. -So far I have been able to race online after altering my car heighth. -Vote feature you have now for this is very ineffective. You telling me if I run a Dedicated server and once we have the option to boot people. It takes a vote to get cheaters out of servers if an Admin is not there to personalyy boot them. How is that focused on the online community? 2. RAM CHEAT WORKS JUST FINE IN NSR. -This is a crazy cheat to be allowed to get into the retail version after it is so widely known. -Works identical to the problem that was in NR03. B. Online Racing is a Mess. 1. Could You Please Actually Enforce The Nextel Cup Rules -It is crazy, No Merge BF.. -Yellows come out and it is a Mess. Yellows in NSR are horrendous. Not handled correctly. -In some Races on My server & Others their was NO BF for speeding on Pit Road during Race. I mean 20 to 30 MPH above limit. 2. NO Control for Server Admins. -Cannot Boot People. -Cannot give people BF for anything. (Speeding, Merging, Ect..) -Cannot Set Timer so server will go from Practice, Qual, Race. 3. Netcode is Poor. -People (All on BroadBand) in the turns are warping all over. This is with only 8 to 10 racers. This Happens on almost all servers in turns. - People Join a Race, everyone warps. (Server Pause) *I have no idea how James Hawkins, lead developer in video, would claim this sim is focused for online Play. 4. Track Lengths are Inaccurate. -That is why many of us are beating actual Nextel Cup Records with default Setups. Bristol, Pheonix, and many others are not to scale in terms on the tracks length. Half mile is a Half Mile. a Track .533 is .533, NOT .503 in distance. This is why our times seem so fast. the tracks are not replicated in distance correctly. 5. Car Models..... -What can be said after 18 months of developement. No One watched an actual race? Did they watch the race Sunday? Why are the cars in NSR narrow and tall, yet it does not take 18 months of developement to watch 1 race and see Nextel Cup cars are wide (Compared to those in NSR) and not near as tall (Compared to NSR). This seems basic need for the immersion factor. 6. Grip/Ability to slam into others online is way to High. -No way at Daytona should I be able to nail a guy in the bumper as he merges out of pits, and just have his car push forward a bit. We should wreck. No Way I can slam into someone in the side and bumper mid-turn doing 180+ and not have his car move. -That's not racing, that is just bumper cars with Nascar Logo's. -Look at Saturday's and Sundays race or even the Twin 150's. You bump someone to hard they are going around, and/or getting loose and squirley (JG & Jimmie in 150's are perfect example.) There is NO fear of this in NSR. You can blast someone and little happens. Fun for the masses, but to advertise this as a sim it does nothing for realism. 7. Rear View Mirror detail Needs Fixed. - I know you can edit the plr files to improved the shape and Draw Distance. - How about allowing FULL detail in Mirror. -Part of the immersion is feeling I am in a car. Thus, when I look in my mirror how about seeing the fence, and other details so I feel I am in a car. -How about allowing when A car comes up behind allow for it to look realitsic with a shadow and in full detail. 8. Car Shadows & Reflections. - The shadows and reflections just do not appear realistic. Load up NR03 or even Heat. At least the reflections and shadows appear to make the cars look real. Best I can describe this item. Now this game was touted as the most realistic Sim ever created. This was said by James Hawkins himself, and promoted by EA. Also, James Hawkins said this game was focused for the sim crowd and online community. I have no idea if 18 months this was the only project or that is a promotional idea, but allowing people to even join a server who have altered their HD files (Physics files) seems little thought was put into the online aspect of this game. Love the way the car feels. have No idea what is and is not realistic in terms of physics, but I like the feel. But NO Way will this sim will be able to be used for Leagues or even good pick up racing. I sure hope someone at EA either decides to focus on a sim if they are going to promote it as a sim. Or next time they take the Hasbro (Heat) approach, and be honest about what we are getting. I have no idea if these items can be patched. But you want constructive criticism, so that is the best I can put it. 18 months with the focus for online play just seems more like hype right now than reality. :Shrug: "

I got IE ActiveX Security/blockage warnings when I went to this page... -Larry "Darus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (108 lines)

> Posted by "Mr. Nobody" at the OLR Forum. Direct link: > http://www.onlineracin.com/forum/tm.asp?m=41533 > > "I would like to start by saying I truly enjoy the way the car drives. > The movement of the cockpit (Head movement on 100%) is incredible. You > truly feel the car. There are some things I seen running a league that > must be addressed: > > A. Cheating is worse right now on NSR than one could have ever > imagined. > 1.-Why Do you allow those who edit the physics to still join the > server? > -So far I have been able to race online in servers after I modified by > Ristrictor plate file. > -So far I have been able to race online after altering my car heighth. > -Vote feature you have now for this is very ineffective. You telling me > if I run a Dedicated server and once we have the option to boot people. > It takes a vote to get cheaters out of servers if an Admin is not there > to personalyy boot them. How is that focused on the online community? > > 2. RAM CHEAT WORKS JUST FINE IN NSR. > -This is a crazy cheat to be allowed to get into the retail version > after it is so widely known. > -Works identical to the problem that was in NR03. > > B. Online Racing is a Mess. 1. Could You Please Actually Enforce The > Nextel Cup Rules > -It is crazy, No Merge BF.. > -Yellows come out and it is a Mess. Yellows in NSR are horrendous. Not > handled correctly. > -In some Races on My server & Others their was NO BF for speeding on > Pit Road during Race. I mean 20 to 30 MPH above limit. > > 2. NO Control for Server Admins. > -Cannot Boot People. > -Cannot give people BF for anything. (Speeding, Merging, Ect..) > -Cannot Set Timer so server will go from Practice, Qual, Race. > > 3. Netcode is Poor. > -People (All on BroadBand) in the turns are warping all over. This is > with only 8 to 10 racers. This Happens on almost all servers in turns. > - People Join a Race, everyone warps. (Server Pause) > *I have no idea how James Hawkins, lead developer in video, would claim > this sim is focused for online Play. > > 4. Track Lengths are Inaccurate. > -That is why many of us are beating actual Nextel Cup Records with > default Setups. Bristol, Pheonix, and many others are not to scale in > terms on the tracks length. Half mile is a Half Mile. a Track .533 is > .533, NOT .503 in distance. This is why our times seem so fast. the > tracks are not replicated in distance correctly. > > 5. Car Models..... > -What can be said after 18 months of developement. No One watched an > actual race? Did they watch the race Sunday? Why are the cars in NSR > narrow and tall, yet it does not take 18 months of developement to > watch 1 race and see Nextel Cup cars are wide (Compared to those in > NSR) and not near as tall (Compared to NSR). This seems basic need for > the immersion factor. > > 6. Grip/Ability to slam into others online is way to High. > -No way at Daytona should I be able to nail a guy in the bumper as he > merges out of pits, and just have his car push forward a bit. We should > wreck. No Way I can slam into someone in the side and bumper mid-turn > doing 180+ and not have his car move. > -That's not racing, that is just bumper cars with Nascar Logo's. > -Look at Saturday's and Sundays race or even the Twin 150's. You bump > someone to hard they are going around, and/or getting loose and > squirley (JG & Jimmie in 150's are perfect example.) There is NO fear > of this in NSR. You can blast someone and little happens. Fun for the > masses, but to advertise this as a sim it does nothing for realism. > > 7. Rear View Mirror detail Needs Fixed. > - I know you can edit the plr files to improved the shape and Draw > Distance. > - How about allowing FULL detail in Mirror. > -Part of the immersion is feeling I am in a car. Thus, when I look in > my mirror how about seeing the fence, and other details so I feel I am > in a car. > -How about allowing when A car comes up behind allow for it to look > realitsic with a shadow and in full detail. > > 8. Car Shadows & Reflections. > - The shadows and reflections just do not appear realistic. Load up > NR03 or even Heat. At least the reflections and shadows appear to make > the cars look real. Best I can describe this item. > > > Now this game was touted as the most realistic Sim ever created. This > was said by James Hawkins himself, and promoted by EA. Also, James > Hawkins said this game was focused for the sim crowd and online > community. I have no idea if 18 months this was the only project or > that is a promotional idea, but allowing people to even join a server > who have altered their HD files (Physics files) seems little thought > was put into the online aspect of this game. > > Love the way the car feels. have No idea what is and is not realistic > in terms of physics, but I like the feel. But NO Way will this sim will > be able to be used for Leagues or even good pick up racing. I sure hope > someone at EA either decides to focus on a sim if they are going to > promote it as a sim. Or next time they take the Hasbro (Heat) approach, > and be honest about what we are getting. > > I have no idea if these items can be patched. But you want constructive > criticism, so that is the best I can put it. 18 months with the focus > for online play just seems more like hype right now than reality. > :Shrug: " >

Hmmm.... Here's the basic link to the forums: http://www.onlineracin.com/forum/ It's the thread titled "If EA or Beta Testers read these Boards. Patch Items Neeeded:"

Yeah larry the site uses cookies to allow posters who register at olr, keeps track or read groups for me, and knows who I am when I get here... what else is banging your IE I dont know, have them on my trusted site list, LOL... Larry enlightened us with: > I got IE ActiveX Security/blockage warnings when I went to this > page... >

works find for me. "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:w2LSd.1386$7z6.934@lakeread04...

Quoted text (116 lines)

>I got IE ActiveX Security/blockage warnings when I went to this page... > > -Larry > > "Darus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >> Posted by "Mr. Nobody" at the OLR Forum. Direct link: >> http://www.onlineracin.com/forum/tm.asp?m=41533 >> >> "I would like to start by saying I truly enjoy the way the car drives. >> The movement of the cockpit (Head movement on 100%) is incredible. You >> truly feel the car. There are some things I seen running a league that >> must be addressed: >> >> A. Cheating is worse right now on NSR than one could have ever >> imagined. >> 1.-Why Do you allow those who edit the physics to still join the >> server? >> -So far I have been able to race online in servers after I modified by >> Ristrictor plate file. >> -So far I have been able to race online after altering my car heighth. >> -Vote feature you have now for this is very ineffective. You telling me >> if I run a Dedicated server and once we have the option to boot people. >> It takes a vote to get cheaters out of servers if an Admin is not there >> to personalyy boot them. How is that focused on the online community? >> >> 2. RAM CHEAT WORKS JUST FINE IN NSR. >> -This is a crazy cheat to be allowed to get into the retail version >> after it is so widely known. >> -Works identical to the problem that was in NR03. >> >> B. Online Racing is a Mess. 1. Could You Please Actually Enforce The >> Nextel Cup Rules >> -It is crazy, No Merge BF.. >> -Yellows come out and it is a Mess. Yellows in NSR are horrendous. Not >> handled correctly. >> -In some Races on My server & Others their was NO BF for speeding on >> Pit Road during Race. I mean 20 to 30 MPH above limit. >> >> 2. NO Control for Server Admins. >> -Cannot Boot People. >> -Cannot give people BF for anything. (Speeding, Merging, Ect..) >> -Cannot Set Timer so server will go from Practice, Qual, Race. >> >> 3. Netcode is Poor. >> -People (All on BroadBand) in the turns are warping all over. This is >> with only 8 to 10 racers. This Happens on almost all servers in turns. >> - People Join a Race, everyone warps. (Server Pause) >> *I have no idea how James Hawkins, lead developer in video, would claim >> this sim is focused for online Play. >> >> 4. Track Lengths are Inaccurate. >> -That is why many of us are beating actual Nextel Cup Records with >> default Setups. Bristol, Pheonix, and many others are not to scale in >> terms on the tracks length. Half mile is a Half Mile. a Track .533 is >> .533, NOT .503 in distance. This is why our times seem so fast. the >> tracks are not replicated in distance correctly. >> >> 5. Car Models..... >> -What can be said after 18 months of developement. No One watched an >> actual race? Did they watch the race Sunday? Why are the cars in NSR >> narrow and tall, yet it does not take 18 months of developement to >> watch 1 race and see Nextel Cup cars are wide (Compared to those in >> NSR) and not near as tall (Compared to NSR). This seems basic need for >> the immersion factor. >> >> 6. Grip/Ability to slam into others online is way to High. >> -No way at Daytona should I be able to nail a guy in the bumper as he >> merges out of pits, and just have his car push forward a bit. We should >> wreck. No Way I can slam into someone in the side and bumper mid-turn >> doing 180+ and not have his car move. >> -That's not racing, that is just bumper cars with Nascar Logo's. >> -Look at Saturday's and Sundays race or even the Twin 150's. You bump >> someone to hard they are going around, and/or getting loose and >> squirley (JG & Jimmie in 150's are perfect example.) There is NO fear >> of this in NSR. You can blast someone and little happens. Fun for the >> masses, but to advertise this as a sim it does nothing for realism. >> >> 7. Rear View Mirror detail Needs Fixed. >> - I know you can edit the plr files to improved the shape and Draw >> Distance. >> - How about allowing FULL detail in Mirror. >> -Part of the immersion is feeling I am in a car. Thus, when I look in >> my mirror how about seeing the fence, and other details so I feel I am >> in a car. >> -How about allowing when A car comes up behind allow for it to look >> realitsic with a shadow and in full detail. >> >> 8. Car Shadows & Reflections. >> - The shadows and reflections just do not appear realistic. Load up >> NR03 or even Heat. At least the reflections and shadows appear to make >> the cars look real. Best I can describe this item. >> >> >> Now this game was touted as the most realistic Sim ever created. This >> was said by James Hawkins himself, and promoted by EA. Also, James >> Hawkins said this game was focused for the sim crowd and online >> community. I have no idea if 18 months this was the only project or >> that is a promotional idea, but allowing people to even join a server >> who have altered their HD files (Physics files) seems little thought >> was put into the online aspect of this game. >> >> Love the way the car feels. have No idea what is and is not realistic >> in terms of physics, but I like the feel. But NO Way will this sim will >> be able to be used for Leagues or even good pick up racing. I sure hope >> someone at EA either decides to focus on a sim if they are going to >> promote it as a sim. Or next time they take the Hasbro (Heat) approach, >> and be honest about what we are getting. >> >> I have no idea if these items can be patched. But you want constructive >> criticism, so that is the best I can put it. 18 months with the focus >> for online play just seems more like hype right now than reality. >> :Shrug: " >> > >

that should be "fine"...(smile) "JD" <JohnAnderson221z(nospam)@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:6uLSd.4633$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (123 lines)

> works find for me. > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:w2LSd.1386$7z6.934@lakeread04... >>I got IE ActiveX Security/blockage warnings when I went to this page... >> >> -Larry >> >> "Darus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:[email hidden]... >>> Posted by "Mr. Nobody" at the OLR Forum. Direct link: >>> http://www.onlineracin.com/forum/tm.asp?m=41533 >>> >>> "I would like to start by saying I truly enjoy the way the car drives. >>> The movement of the cockpit (Head movement on 100%) is incredible. You >>> truly feel the car. There are some things I seen running a league that >>> must be addressed: >>> >>> A. Cheating is worse right now on NSR than one could have ever >>> imagined. >>> 1.-Why Do you allow those who edit the physics to still join the >>> server? >>> -So far I have been able to race online in servers after I modified by >>> Ristrictor plate file. >>> -So far I have been able to race online after altering my car heighth. >>> -Vote feature you have now for this is very ineffective. You telling me >>> if I run a Dedicated server and once we have the option to boot people. >>> It takes a vote to get cheaters out of servers if an Admin is not there >>> to personalyy boot them. How is that focused on the online community? >>> >>> 2. RAM CHEAT WORKS JUST FINE IN NSR. >>> -This is a crazy cheat to be allowed to get into the retail version >>> after it is so widely known. >>> -Works identical to the problem that was in NR03. >>> >>> B. Online Racing is a Mess. 1. Could You Please Actually Enforce The >>> Nextel Cup Rules >>> -It is crazy, No Merge BF.. >>> -Yellows come out and it is a Mess. Yellows in NSR are horrendous. Not >>> handled correctly. >>> -In some Races on My server & Others their was NO BF for speeding on >>> Pit Road during Race. I mean 20 to 30 MPH above limit. >>> >>> 2. NO Control for Server Admins. >>> -Cannot Boot People. >>> -Cannot give people BF for anything. (Speeding, Merging, Ect..) >>> -Cannot Set Timer so server will go from Practice, Qual, Race. >>> >>> 3. Netcode is Poor. >>> -People (All on BroadBand) in the turns are warping all over. This is >>> with only 8 to 10 racers. This Happens on almost all servers in turns. >>> - People Join a Race, everyone warps. (Server Pause) >>> *I have no idea how James Hawkins, lead developer in video, would claim >>> this sim is focused for online Play. >>> >>> 4. Track Lengths are Inaccurate. >>> -That is why many of us are beating actual Nextel Cup Records with >>> default Setups. Bristol, Pheonix, and many others are not to scale in >>> terms on the tracks length. Half mile is a Half Mile. a Track .533 is >>> .533, NOT .503 in distance. This is why our times seem so fast. the >>> tracks are not replicated in distance correctly. >>> >>> 5. Car Models..... >>> -What can be said after 18 months of developement. No One watched an >>> actual race? Did they watch the race Sunday? Why are the cars in NSR >>> narrow and tall, yet it does not take 18 months of developement to >>> watch 1 race and see Nextel Cup cars are wide (Compared to those in >>> NSR) and not near as tall (Compared to NSR). This seems basic need for >>> the immersion factor. >>> >>> 6. Grip/Ability to slam into others online is way to High. >>> -No way at Daytona should I be able to nail a guy in the bumper as he >>> merges out of pits, and just have his car push forward a bit. We should >>> wreck. No Way I can slam into someone in the side and bumper mid-turn >>> doing 180+ and not have his car move. >>> -That's not racing, that is just bumper cars with Nascar Logo's. >>> -Look at Saturday's and Sundays race or even the Twin 150's. You bump >>> someone to hard they are going around, and/or getting loose and >>> squirley (JG & Jimmie in 150's are perfect example.) There is NO fear >>> of this in NSR. You can blast someone and little happens. Fun for the >>> masses, but to advertise this as a sim it does nothing for realism. >>> >>> 7. Rear View Mirror detail Needs Fixed. >>> - I know you can edit the plr files to improved the shape and Draw >>> Distance. >>> - How about allowing FULL detail in Mirror. >>> -Part of the immersion is feeling I am in a car. Thus, when I look in >>> my mirror how about seeing the fence, and other details so I feel I am >>> in a car. >>> -How about allowing when A car comes up behind allow for it to look >>> realitsic with a shadow and in full detail. >>> >>> 8. Car Shadows & Reflections. >>> - The shadows and reflections just do not appear realistic. Load up >>> NR03 or even Heat. At least the reflections and shadows appear to make >>> the cars look real. Best I can describe this item. >>> >>> >>> Now this game was touted as the most realistic Sim ever created. This >>> was said by James Hawkins himself, and promoted by EA. Also, James >>> Hawkins said this game was focused for the sim crowd and online >>> community. I have no idea if 18 months this was the only project or >>> that is a promotional idea, but allowing people to even join a server >>> who have altered their HD files (Physics files) seems little thought >>> was put into the online aspect of this game. >>> >>> Love the way the car feels. have No idea what is and is not realistic >>> in terms of physics, but I like the feel. But NO Way will this sim will >>> be able to be used for Leagues or even good pick up racing. I sure hope >>> someone at EA either decides to focus on a sim if they are going to >>> promote it as a sim. Or next time they take the Hasbro (Heat) approach, >>> and be honest about what we are getting. >>> >>> I have no idea if these items can be patched. But you want constructive >>> criticism, so that is the best I can put it. 18 months with the focus >>> for online play just seems more like hype right now than reality. >>> :Shrug: " >>> >> >> > >

I mean the link, not the game. "JD" <JohnAnderson221z(nospam)@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:LvLSd.4637$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (130 lines)

> that should be "fine"...(smile) > > > "JD" <JohnAnderson221z(nospam)@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:6uLSd.4633$[email hidden]... >> works find for me. >> >> >> "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:w2LSd.1386$7z6.934@lakeread04... >>>I got IE ActiveX Security/blockage warnings when I went to this page... >>> >>> -Larry >>> >>> "Darus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >>> news:[email hidden]... >>>> Posted by "Mr. Nobody" at the OLR Forum. Direct link: >>>> http://www.onlineracin.com/forum/tm.asp?m=41533 >>>> >>>> "I would like to start by saying I truly enjoy the way the car drives. >>>> The movement of the cockpit (Head movement on 100%) is incredible. You >>>> truly feel the car. There are some things I seen running a league that >>>> must be addressed: >>>> >>>> A. Cheating is worse right now on NSR than one could have ever >>>> imagined. >>>> 1.-Why Do you allow those who edit the physics to still join the >>>> server? >>>> -So far I have been able to race online in servers after I modified by >>>> Ristrictor plate file. >>>> -So far I have been able to race online after altering my car heighth. >>>> -Vote feature you have now for this is very ineffective. You telling me >>>> if I run a Dedicated server and once we have the option to boot people. >>>> It takes a vote to get cheaters out of servers if an Admin is not there >>>> to personalyy boot them. How is that focused on the online community? >>>> >>>> 2. RAM CHEAT WORKS JUST FINE IN NSR. >>>> -This is a crazy cheat to be allowed to get into the retail version >>>> after it is so widely known. >>>> -Works identical to the problem that was in NR03. >>>> >>>> B. Online Racing is a Mess. 1. Could You Please Actually Enforce The >>>> Nextel Cup Rules >>>> -It is crazy, No Merge BF.. >>>> -Yellows come out and it is a Mess. Yellows in NSR are horrendous. Not >>>> handled correctly. >>>> -In some Races on My server & Others their was NO BF for speeding on >>>> Pit Road during Race. I mean 20 to 30 MPH above limit. >>>> >>>> 2. NO Control for Server Admins. >>>> -Cannot Boot People. >>>> -Cannot give people BF for anything. (Speeding, Merging, Ect..) >>>> -Cannot Set Timer so server will go from Practice, Qual, Race. >>>> >>>> 3. Netcode is Poor. >>>> -People (All on BroadBand) in the turns are warping all over. This is >>>> with only 8 to 10 racers. This Happens on almost all servers in turns. >>>> - People Join a Race, everyone warps. (Server Pause) >>>> *I have no idea how James Hawkins, lead developer in video, would claim >>>> this sim is focused for online Play. >>>> >>>> 4. Track Lengths are Inaccurate. >>>> -That is why many of us are beating actual Nextel Cup Records with >>>> default Setups. Bristol, Pheonix, and many others are not to scale in >>>> terms on the tracks length. Half mile is a Half Mile. a Track .533 is >>>> .533, NOT .503 in distance. This is why our times seem so fast. the >>>> tracks are not replicated in distance correctly. >>>> >>>> 5. Car Models..... >>>> -What can be said after 18 months of developement. No One watched an >>>> actual race? Did they watch the race Sunday? Why are the cars in NSR >>>> narrow and tall, yet it does not take 18 months of developement to >>>> watch 1 race and see Nextel Cup cars are wide (Compared to those in >>>> NSR) and not near as tall (Compared to NSR). This seems basic need for >>>> the immersion factor. >>>> >>>> 6. Grip/Ability to slam into others online is way to High. >>>> -No way at Daytona should I be able to nail a guy in the bumper as he >>>> merges out of pits, and just have his car push forward a bit. We should >>>> wreck. No Way I can slam into someone in the side and bumper mid-turn >>>> doing 180+ and not have his car move. >>>> -That's not racing, that is just bumper cars with Nascar Logo's. >>>> -Look at Saturday's and Sundays race or even the Twin 150's. You bump >>>> someone to hard they are going around, and/or getting loose and >>>> squirley (JG & Jimmie in 150's are perfect example.) There is NO fear >>>> of this in NSR. You can blast someone and little happens. Fun for the >>>> masses, but to advertise this as a sim it does nothing for realism. >>>> >>>> 7. Rear View Mirror detail Needs Fixed. >>>> - I know you can edit the plr files to improved the shape and Draw >>>> Distance. >>>> - How about allowing FULL detail in Mirror. >>>> -Part of the immersion is feeling I am in a car. Thus, when I look in >>>> my mirror how about seeing the fence, and other details so I feel I am >>>> in a car. >>>> -How about allowing when A car comes up behind allow for it to look >>>> realitsic with a shadow and in full detail. >>>> >>>> 8. Car Shadows & Reflections. >>>> - The shadows and reflections just do not appear realistic. Load up >>>> NR03 or even Heat. At least the reflections and shadows appear to make >>>> the cars look real. Best I can describe this item. >>>> >>>> >>>> Now this game was touted as the most realistic Sim ever created. This >>>> was said by James Hawkins himself, and promoted by EA. Also, James >>>> Hawkins said this game was focused for the sim crowd and online >>>> community. I have no idea if 18 months this was the only project or >>>> that is a promotional idea, but allowing people to even join a server >>>> who have altered their HD files (Physics files) seems little thought >>>> was put into the online aspect of this game. >>>> >>>> Love the way the car feels. have No idea what is and is not realistic >>>> in terms of physics, but I like the feel. But NO Way will this sim will >>>> be able to be used for Leagues or even good pick up racing. I sure hope >>>> someone at EA either decides to focus on a sim if they are going to >>>> promote it as a sim. Or next time they take the Hasbro (Heat) approach, >>>> and be honest about what we are getting. >>>> >>>> I have no idea if these items can be patched. But you want constructive >>>> criticism, so that is the best I can put it. 18 months with the focus >>>> for online play just seems more like hype right now than reality. >>>> :Shrug: " >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > >

Excellent evaluation by Mr. Nobody. I have experienced some of the same things he's talking about online. Regarding the physics, just as a test, go to Michigan and run the default race setup with no aids. Now loosen the car up by moving weight back, negative wedge and increasing track bar split. If you break loose in the turns, just enable steering help and/or stab control. Then throw the car into the turns so that you're dirt-tracking, and watch your times decrease. Should easily be in the 36 sec range. Do the same thing at Bristol. Should easily be in the 14 sec range. In fact if you wall ride, you can even get close to sub 14's (14.2, my best without trying too hard) I definitely think there's cheating going on. I tried only joining servers where all aids were disabled, and there were still cars dirt tracking through the turns running some extremely fast laps, and not suffering any apparent damage after creaming me into the wall. I was an early supporter of EA's effort with this sim, after all it's our future for a Nascar sim, but I'm getting very disappointed. There's just so much that needs to be fixed, I just can't see how a patch or two is going to take care of it. I just hope not too many league administrators have made the decision to switch to NSR. It clearly is not ready for prime time yet. "Darus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... : Posted by "Mr. Nobody" at the OLR Forum. Direct link: : http://www.onlineracin.com/forum/tm.asp?m=41533 : : "I would like to start by saying I truly enjoy the way the car drives. : The movement of the cockpit (Head movement on 100%) is incredible. You : truly feel the car. There are some things I seen running a league that : must be addressed: : : A. Cheating is worse right now on NSR than one could have ever : imagined. : 1.-Why Do you allow those who edit the physics to still join the : server? : -So far I have been able to race online in servers after I modified by : Ristrictor plate file. : -So far I have been able to race online after altering my car heighth. : -Vote feature you have now for this is very ineffective. You telling me : if I run a Dedicated server and once we have the option to boot people. : It takes a vote to get cheaters out of servers if an Admin is not there : to personalyy boot them. How is that focused on the online community? : : 2. RAM CHEAT WORKS JUST FINE IN NSR. : -This is a crazy cheat to be allowed to get into the retail version : after it is so widely known. : -Works identical to the problem that was in NR03. : : B. Online Racing is a Mess. 1. Could You Please Actually Enforce The : Nextel Cup Rules : -It is crazy, No Merge BF.. : -Yellows come out and it is a Mess. Yellows in NSR are horrendous. Not : handled correctly. : -In some Races on My server & Others their was NO BF for speeding on : Pit Road during Race. I mean 20 to 30 MPH above limit. : : 2. NO Control for Server Admins. : -Cannot Boot People. : -Cannot give people BF for anything. (Speeding, Merging, Ect..) : -Cannot Set Timer so server will go from Practice, Qual, Race. : : 3. Netcode is Poor. : -People (All on BroadBand) in the turns are warping all over. This is : with only 8 to 10 racers. This Happens on almost all servers in turns. : - People Join a Race, everyone warps. (Server Pause) : *I have no idea how James Hawkins, lead developer in video, would claim : this sim is focused for online Play. : : 4. Track Lengths are Inaccurate. : -That is why many of us are beating actual Nextel Cup Records with : default Setups. Bristol, Pheonix, and many others are not to scale in : terms on the tracks length. Half mile is a Half Mile. a Track .533 is : .533, NOT .503 in distance. This is why our times seem so fast. the : tracks are not replicated in distance correctly. : : 5. Car Models..... : -What can be said after 18 months of developement. No One watched an : actual race? Did they watch the race Sunday? Why are the cars in NSR : narrow and tall, yet it does not take 18 months of developement to : watch 1 race and see Nextel Cup cars are wide (Compared to those in : NSR) and not near as tall (Compared to NSR). This seems basic need for : the immersion factor. : : 6. Grip/Ability to slam into others online is way to High. : -No way at Daytona should I be able to nail a guy in the bumper as he : merges out of pits, and just have his car push forward a bit. We should : wreck. No Way I can slam into someone in the side and bumper mid-turn : doing 180+ and not have his car move. : -That's not racing, that is just bumper cars with Nascar Logo's. : -Look at Saturday's and Sundays race or even the Twin 150's. You bump : someone to hard they are going around, and/or getting loose and : squirley (JG & Jimmie in 150's are perfect example.) There is NO fear : of this in NSR. You can blast someone and little happens. Fun for the : masses, but to advertise this as a sim it does nothing for realism. : : 7. Rear View Mirror detail Needs Fixed. : - I know you can edit the plr files to improved the shape and Draw : Distance. : - How about allowing FULL detail in Mirror. : -Part of the immersion is feeling I am in a car. Thus, when I look in : my mirror how about seeing the fence, and other details so I feel I am : in a car. : -How about allowing when A car comes up behind allow for it to look : realitsic with a shadow and in full detail. : : 8. Car Shadows & Reflections. : - The shadows and reflections just do not appear realistic. Load up : NR03 or even Heat. At least the reflections and shadows appear to make : the cars look real. Best I can describe this item. : : : Now this game was touted as the most realistic Sim ever created. This : was said by James Hawkins himself, and promoted by EA. Also, James : Hawkins said this game was focused for the sim crowd and online : community. I have no idea if 18 months this was the only project or : that is a promotional idea, but allowing people to even join a server : who have altered their HD files (Physics files) seems little thought : was put into the online aspect of this game. : : Love the way the car feels. have No idea what is and is not realistic : in terms of physics, but I like the feel. But NO Way will this sim will : be able to be used for Leagues or even good pick up racing. I sure hope : someone at EA either decides to focus on a sim if they are going to : promote it as a sim. Or next time they take the Hasbro (Heat) approach, : and be honest about what we are getting. : : I have no idea if these items can be patched. But you want constructive : criticism, so that is the best I can put it. 18 months with the focus : for online play just seems more like hype right now than reality. ::Shrug: " :

Another rushed out the door product by EA. Maybe they need to work their programmers harder.. lol!

I do want to say I could not agree more with his pointing out about the failure to check car- physics or track- physics for changed settings for each and any user joining the server, this was stoopid by EA, no matter how you look at it. Match the server or get booted, no excuses IMHO. but about the mirrors and "immersion" Puh-Leeze, now Im not saying MR Nobody even asked this necessarily, but too many times I have already read this typed in the same vane.... () Posted by "Mr. Nobody" at the OLR Forum. () >> 7. Rear View Mirror detail Needs Fixed. >> - How about allowing FULL detail in Mirror.() I snipped a bit much here... I would think, most in simulator vane, use the mirror as a tool. in as much as I need to know where the online_opponent/AI car is in relationship to me, that is all. To me it would be a friggin Waste of a bunch of CPU & GFX cycles to do more than this heck I dont stare at the mirror. I do like to see the groove though, maybe this is what he mant? anyway full detail? what the ? not on my machine... then these people bandwaggin'n (spelled that way on purpose, like wag the dog) that folow his post with "hell yah" in the next post (if this were true) will say: CRAP!!! I only get 14 fps, I cant see over the friggin spoiler, so they remove the car, mirror shake is too hard to see, so they remove it... On and ON and On... well is it imersion, or being friggin picky as h3ll? Like another post on OLR stated, too many "young-uns" don't appreciate nor remember wireframes nor appreciate what it takes to produce what we do have... There is a small battlefield forming on the territory of how high do you set the minimum requirements, the kids with just_bought_last_month_ new_ 30ghz_ machines are posting on this tone: Bring it on, I get 321 FPS with everything on maxed out 13,000 x 60,000, I wanna see the beer the blonde in row 32 section 42 is drinking nex time!!!... good for you, but why are you friggin riding the wall, or parked in turn3, pullin out the pits into traffic, or wrecking everyone like a gd clown?!?!?!?! just like I read like (she-it I dunno, enough to make me think this was a real problem) ??# number of posts that stated to the effect: "I cant hear the spotter, crew-chief, the engine is too loud, the effects are too loud or soft..." and then usually about 4 or 5 AMENs to follow, but in the options there were like 7 sliders for volume, from engines, sound efects, spotter, crewchief... and of course (I have to say, what the hell? sliders for announcer? and music? in a sim?) Cmon, least it was somewhat adjustable. then another post about not knowing on track intervals... hell I found it by accident 1st thing online... maybe it doesnt work offline so they didnt try? >> - I know you can edit the plr files to improved the shape and Draw >> Distance. Another thing, it takes time to get things up to snuff, I think we're damm lucky there is "wiggle-room" in these settings so easily (editing the .plr file with notepad for crying out loud, it is easy if you can read) because AFIAK many games do this or if it aint in the game, it aint in the friggin game... case in point NR1 & 2. I know there are others, hate to pick papy for all of them but that is about all the games I ever bought. Anyway for example they both had shortcommings, both had "hacks" that 'people in the know' knew, that many never admitted to until even just recently. BTW I remember now, after talkning to my buddy, that I had to buy the game 2 times, with NR1, 1st the 4 or five disk version then after that the CD version came out and if your PC had the power (and more impoartantly you were savvy enough to know the tweaks) gave you lots more details and fluff stuff... well, I defintily changed my tune, as I typed this, it aint all bad, nor gravy... with my older system the game ran pretty well I think! I know your milage varies... OK Tetz... sigh.

"Well Thought Out Review/Complaint of NSR" brought to its knees with that post. Plowboy blessed us with: > I do want to say I could not agree more with his pointing out aboutthe > failure to check car- physics or track- physics for changed settingsfor > each > and any user joining the server, this was stoopid by EA, no matterhow you > look at it. Match the server or get booted, no excuses IMHO. > > but about the mirrors and "immersion" Puh-Leeze, now Im not saying MRNobody > even asked this necessarily, but too many times I have already readthis

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> typed in the same vane.... > > () Posted by "Mr. Nobody" at the OLR Forum. () > > >> 7. Rear View Mirror detail Needs Fixed. > >> - How about allowing FULL detail in Mirror. > () I snipped a bit much here... > > I would think, most in simulator vane, use the mirror as a tool. in

as much > as I need to know where the online_opponent/AI car is in relationshipto me, > that is all. To me it would be a friggin Waste of a bunch of CPU &GFX > cycles to do more than this heck I dont stare at the mirror. I dolike to > see the groove though, maybe this is what he mant? anyway fulldetail? > what the ? not on my machine... > > then these people bandwaggin'n (spelled that way on purpose, likewag > the dog) that folow his post with "hell yah" in the next post (ifthis were > true) will say: > CRAP!!! I only get 14 fps, > I cant see over the friggin spoiler, so they remove the car, > mirror shake is too hard to see, so they remove it... > > On and ON and On... well is it imersion, or being friggin picky ash3ll? > Like another post on OLR stated, too many "young-uns" don'tappreciate nor > remember wireframes nor appreciate what it takes to produce what wedo > have... > > There is a small battlefield forming on the territory of how high doyou set > the minimum requirements, the kids with just_bought_last_month_ new_30ghz_ > machines are posting on this tone: > Bring it on, I get 321 FPS with everything on maxed out 13,000 x60,000, I > wanna see the beer the blonde in row 32 section 42 is drinking nex > time!!!... good for you, but why are you friggin riding the wall, orparked > in turn3, pullin out the pits into traffic, or wrecking everyone likea gd > clown?!?!?!?! > > just like I read like (she-it I dunno, enough to make me think thiswas a

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> real problem) ??# number of posts that stated to the effect: > "I cant hear the spotter, crew-chief, > the engine is too loud, > the effects are too loud or soft..." > and then usually about 4 or 5 AMENs to follow, > > but in the options there were like 7 sliders for volume, from

engines, sound > efects, spotter, crewchief... and of course (I have to say, what thehell? > sliders for announcer? and music? in a sim?) Cmon, least it wassomewhat > adjustable. > > then another post about not knowing on track intervals... hell Ifound it by > accident 1st thing online... maybe it doesnt work offline so theydidnt > try? > > >> - I know you can edit the plr files to improved the shape and Draw > >> Distance. > > Another thing, it takes time to get things up to snuff, I think we'redamm > lucky there is "wiggle-room" in these settings so easily (editing the.plr > file with notepad for crying out loud, it is easy if you can read)because > AFIAK many games do this or if it aint in the game, it aint in thefriggin > game... case in point NR1 & 2. I know there are others, hate topick papy > for all of them but that is about all the games I ever bought.Anyway for > example they both had shortcommings, both had "hacks" that 'people inthe > know' knew, that many never admitted to until even just recently.BTW I > remember now, after talkning to my buddy, that I had to buy the game2 > times, with NR1, 1st the 4 or five disk version then after that theCD > version came out and if your PC had the power (and more impoartantlyyou > were savvy enough to know the tweaks) gave you lots more details andfluff > stuff... > > well, I defintily changed my tune, as I typed this, it aint all bad,nor > gravy... with my older system the game ran pretty well I think! Iknow > your milage varies... > > OK Tetz... sigh.

I don't know so much about the immersion factor but I can say that I like it in N2003 along with having the rollbar, etc. showing (can't remember if the NSR demo showed the interior of the car in the mirror or not). The more detail the better as it helps me mentally place where the guy is in relation to me. Just seeing a car in the background isn't going to tell me if he's running higher or lower than I am. <---Not sure if that's how it is in NSR as I haven't run the demo since a day or two after it came out and I'm a little scared to put the full version on my system if it's as bad as some are saying (I'd hate to have to exorcise the EA demons out of my system if NSR is truly crap). "Plowboy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:OnOSd.2564$7z6.1517@lakeread04...

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>I do want to say I could not agree more with his pointing out about the > failure to check car- physics or track- physics for changed settings for > each > and any user joining the server, this was stoopid by EA, no matter how you > look at it. Match the server or get booted, no excuses IMHO. > > but about the mirrors and "immersion" Puh-Leeze, now Im not saying MR > Nobody > even asked this necessarily, but too many times I have already read this > typed in the same vane.... > > () Posted by "Mr. Nobody" at the OLR Forum. () > >>> 7. Rear View Mirror detail Needs Fixed. >>> - How about allowing FULL detail in Mirror. > () I snipped a bit much here... > > I would think, most in simulator vane, use the mirror as a tool. in as > much > as I need to know where the online_opponent/AI car is in relationship to > me, > that is all. To me it would be a friggin Waste of a bunch of CPU & GFX > cycles to do more than this heck I dont stare at the mirror. I do like to > see the groove though, maybe this is what he mant? anyway full detail? > what the ? not on my machine... > > then these people bandwaggin'n (spelled that way on purpose, like wag > the dog) that folow his post with "hell yah" in the next post (if this > were > true) will say: > CRAP!!! I only get 14 fps, > I cant see over the friggin spoiler, so they remove the car, > mirror shake is too hard to see, so they remove it... > > On and ON and On... well is it imersion, or being friggin picky as h3ll? > Like another post on OLR stated, too many "young-uns" don't appreciate nor > remember wireframes nor appreciate what it takes to produce what we do > have... > > There is a small battlefield forming on the territory of how high do you > set > the minimum requirements, the kids with just_bought_last_month_ new_ > 30ghz_ > machines are posting on this tone: > Bring it on, I get 321 FPS with everything on maxed out 13,000 x 60,000, I > wanna see the beer the blonde in row 32 section 42 is drinking nex > time!!!... good for you, but why are you friggin riding the wall, or > parked > in turn3, pullin out the pits into traffic, or wrecking everyone like a gd > clown?!?!?!?! > > just like I read like (she-it I dunno, enough to make me think this was a > real problem) ??# number of posts that stated to the effect: > "I cant hear the spotter, crew-chief, > the engine is too loud, > the effects are too loud or soft..." > and then usually about 4 or 5 AMENs to follow, > > but in the options there were like 7 sliders for volume, from engines, > sound > efects, spotter, crewchief... and of course (I have to say, what the hell? > sliders for announcer? and music? in a sim?) Cmon, least it was > somewhat > adjustable. > > then another post about not knowing on track intervals... hell I found it > by > accident 1st thing online... maybe it doesnt work offline so they didnt > try? > >>> - I know you can edit the plr files to improved the shape and Draw >>> Distance. > > Another thing, it takes time to get things up to snuff, I think we're damm > lucky there is "wiggle-room" in these settings so easily (editing the .plr > file with notepad for crying out loud, it is easy if you can read) > because > AFIAK many games do this or if it aint in the game, it aint in the friggin > game... case in point NR1 & 2. I know there are others, hate to pick > papy > for all of them but that is about all the games I ever bought. Anyway for > example they both had shortcommings, both had "hacks" that 'people in the > know' knew, that many never admitted to until even just recently. BTW I > remember now, after talkning to my buddy, that I had to buy the game 2 > times, with NR1, 1st the 4 or five disk version then after that the CD > version came out and if your PC had the power (and more impoartantly you > were savvy enough to know the tweaks) gave you lots more details and fluff > stuff... > > well, I defintily changed my tune, as I typed this, it aint all bad, nor > gravy... with my older system the game ran pretty well I think! I know > your milage varies... > > OK Tetz... sigh. > > > > > > > > >

I just get a " page cannot be displayed" error message. Don Burnette "When you decide something is impossible to do, try to stay out of the way of the man that's doing it." Larry wrote: > I got IE ActiveX Security/blockage warnings when I went to this > page... > > -Larry >

Your opinion on this eludes me, you don't like my opinion? or what? Darus enlightened us with:

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> "Well Thought Out Review/Complaint of NSR" brought to its knees with > that post. > > > Plowboy blessed us with: >> I do want to say I could not agree more with his pointing out about >> the failure to check car- physics or track- physics for changed >> settings for each

snippd long winded post... :)

The point (which is what is the term that I think you meant to use, rather than "opinion") was Mr. Nobody's post was, IMO, an appropriately setup and worded description of the good & bad points of NSR. Yours, IMO, was a hastily formed rant, which not only expressed your personal opinions (and you're entitled to them) but crapped on the way some people have begun to setup their .plr files and the way they run NSR. Additionally, you nuked people who didn't fully explore all the menus in the game before asking a simple question to resolve a problem they were having. Perhaps they, like myself, overlooked these menus/sliders/settings in the rush to get on the track and see what EA brought to the table.

Darus enlightened us with:

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> The point (which is what is the term that I think you meant to use, > rather than "opinion") was Mr. Nobody's post was, IMO, an > appropriately setup and worded description of the good & bad points > of NSR. Yours, IMO, was a hastily formed rant, which not only > expressed your personal opinions (and you're entitled to them) but > crapped on the way some people have begun to setup their .plr files > and the way they run NSR.

Yeah Ill give you some clear "points" on that, but you sir, are kind of in the same boat, when you (well maybe you didnt) get on and post that "there are no adjustments" if only because well, I had to wait to get the game myself and so did others that are now going on saying what you (ahem, I mean others) said, and had 'sumed they knew what they were talking about when they posted it. All I was wanting to say was it aint that bad, least not at that point... & Yes I agreed with 90% of his post, sorry, & I guess that I can agree that maybe that was not clear, and yes I took him (and others) to task about the mirrors, sheesh. Game set and match to you, but it was NOT 2 to 'nothing.' Didnt mean to just crap on them anymore than I felt they (IMHO) crapped on the game, again the mirror thing, well it got to me... I know he has his opinion, you do, and so to do I. I just wanted to point out, your not going to get "bugs in your teeth" in any sim, so where can you say "good enough?" I supported that with my feelings. again just trying to get some on here (probably not necessarily you) to do some give and take, like I ranted about the guys with $3grand systems, saying "nothing was good enough" as the rest of us are kinda going, "Cap'n! she canna take anymore of this!) <in my best original series- Star Trek's Mr.Scott voice>... PS, I wont really go to far to apologise for more or less saying RTFM. Sh*t man, I personally know, that I been on here long enough, that it is part of my net-ucation, I live by it too. Sorry it seems to gruff... Sure, in the begining how many times I asked something obvious, and got that RTFM as an asnwer, is emabarassing in itself. It is something I work at, to not have happen all the time. Plus, I dont think it is too much to ask some others to do the same, especially from being too lazy to even look through the menus? I defintily see this differently because of just the amount of intelect it seems to imply at least in my head, for simmers to even know about the usenet (which in itself is very old school). >Additionally, you nuked people who didn't > fully explore all the menus in the game before asking a simple > question to resolve a problem they were having. Perhaps they, like > myself, overlooked these menus/sliders/settings in the rush to get on > the track and see what EA brought to the table. hope you dont feel I crapped on more, I am just "discussing" and supporting my opinion, on a usenet discussion group... -- Plowboy-- Never be afraid to try something new! . Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark! A large group of professionals built the Titanic. & If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. -Red Green good day.

Wow. I hate to sound like a teacher, but that post is one tough read. My Lord, have you any idea how to express a clear thought in plain English? I kid you not, I had to read that 10 times before I got (I think) the gist of it. Let's go over this slowly: 1.) "but you sir, are kind of in the same boat, when you (well maybe you didnt) get on and post that "there are no adjustments" if only because well, I had to wait to get the game myself and so did others that are now going on saying what you (ahem, I mean others) said, and had 'sumed they knew what they were talking about when they posted it. All I was wanting to say was it aint that bad, least not at that point... " You accuse me of something here, but I am not certain what that is. You seem to imply that "people" (we'll use that generic term for those in question) said there were "no adjustments". To what? For what? I have made posts here in RAS and elsewhere regarding NSR, but only after I had the product installed and used it. (Both the demo and retail versions) I made some observations and posted them. Other "people" did the same. Many of those "people" expressed that they were disappointed in NSR and it's out of the box capabilities. I agree with them. However, as time moves on (a whole week IIRC) numerous tweaks and setting changes have begun to surface and NSR is slowly improving. 2.) "Didnt mean to just crap on them anymore than I felt they (IMHO) crapped on the game, again the mirror thing, well it got to me... I know he has his opinion, you do, and so to do I. I just wanted to point out, your not going to get "bugs in your teeth" in any sim, so where can you say "good enough?"" Are you an EA employee? Stock holder? Do you hold some personal interest in the public opinion of NSR? Who cares if someone dislikes it? Lots of "people" will dislike it, for a wide variety of reasons. Certainly no sim for the common PC will offer a 100% reality based simulation. But we can hope for, heck, even *demand* as close to reality as possible and as modern computing power will allow. Did EA and NSR do that? Many "people" do not think so and I am one of them. NSR was alleged to have been in the works for 18 months. I certainly do not see 18 months worth of work for this supposed "Sim". I see lots of previous code in the .plr file from other EA/ISI products, including the awful NT04. If my math is right, they started this approx. 6 months after NR2003 was released to the public. If *I* was going to design a sim in a genre that already had a highly rated and respected piece of programing, my version would <at least> offer the same level of quality that was currently available. IMO, "good enough" should have been a lot better than what we got so far. To clarify, here's an example. Multiplayer is not as good as the now 2yrs. old NR2003. Pauses when "people" log in or off the server and no cheat checking are two of the biggest flaws. 3.) "PS, I wont really go to far to apologise for more or less saying RTFM. Sh*t man, I personally know, that I been on here long enough, that it is part of my net-ucation, I live by it too. Sorry it seems to gruff... Sure, in the begining how many times I asked something obvious, and got that RTFM as an asnwer, is emabarassing in itself. It is something I work at, to not have happen all the time. Plus, I dont think it is too much to ask some others to do the same, especially from being too lazy to even look through the menus?" I guess that I got a defective version of the game. Because my "manual" is SOP for any EA title. Perhaps you could tell us all what page the sound settings can be found on? After that, where is the explanation of the dozen or so .plr file settings that I have changed so far? Take a minute, I'll wait.... During your "net-ucation" (I like that), did you like "people" crapping on you for not RTFM? Unless you are into Usenet thread "Scat", I'll doubt you found it a pleasant experience. Kind of like when you read a forum and ask a question and some wizard tell you to use the search function. Well, if I knew the answer to the question, I would have typed it into the (usually) useless search feature. In the time it took for that person to tell me to use the search, they could have simply answered the question. What, am I studying for an exam here and need to learn for myself? Either help out with the problem posed to the community or move along and say nothing. Live Long and Prosper!

WOW... Darus? Sorry I have had so much trouble getting my thoughts, which happen at (I figure a guess) 50,000 times faster then the words per minute I can friggin type. Im only a bit better than 10 wpm, and maybe 3 after corrections.... Im sorry I didnt do a Doctoral thesis on this yet again, I use shortened sentences, in vain attempts to give you the main idea what Im tryin to convey, without boring you to tears redescribing some things. I actually dont read everything word for word, when others post (unless it is referenced for something) I guess that is because I skim. So anyway,. Can ya cut me a little slack, somehow? because we're talking about a comon topic, I've felt you could fill in the blanks when I leave a word out at times... Sometimes it is just a typo, many times it was cut and paste that got my post wacked out. I also would say that battle with keyboard dislexia as I try not to have to look at the keyboard when I type, you know like I was taught in HS, like over 25 years ago... I will agree, it was hard to read, LOL, could I email these from now on for proof reading? >joke< I spent so much, er actually toooooooooooo much \time/ rewriting & reordering that post, in a vain attempt to make sense of it in as few words as possible, that hell I dont know if I can read it. lastly, Im writing everything I type in good cheer. I think you guys read it, you know that voice in your head as you sound out the words, as if you assume I have a GD chip on my shoulder. Oh well. No, I know I wont make a living writing novels or nothing. that is why I stay with my current job. Live long and prosper, to you too LOL ! Darus enlightened us with: > Wow.Snip my second english class in as many weeks.... <G>

No problems here, mate. All in the spirit of good debate. ;-)