GTR Demo performance???

I installed the new GTR demo today, and I must say I am very impressed with the physics of the cars you can drive. Now the problem... I have noticed that the AI cars seem damn near invincible. I mean, if you tap one you are likely to spin out, but you can practicly ram them and they just zoom on down the track! Is this just the demo, and the actual game will behave correctly, or have I missed something? I have tried this in 'simulation' and 'semi-pro' modes and it does it in both. I am used to driving 'F1 Challenge' which behaves much better. Ron

Ron Milton wrote:

Quoted text (14 lines)

> I installed the new GTR demo today, and I must say I am very impressed > with the physics of the cars you can drive. > > Now the problem... I have noticed that the AI cars seem damn near > invincible. I mean, if you tap one you are likely to spin out, but > you can practicly ram them and they just zoom on down the track! > > Is this just the demo, and the actual game will behave correctly, or > have I missed something? I have tried this in 'simulation' and > 'semi-pro' modes and it does it in both. > > I am used to driving 'F1 Challenge' which behaves much better. > > Ron

Ya just got to hit em right ;) I havent really found the problem you describe. It gives a pretty realistic feel to me. When you hit em it really feels like youre hitting something with mass and adhesion and a square hit generally wont spin em either. They will sure come get you aferwards if youre not on top of your game thats for sure. I been creeping up but currently I run against 94% Psychotic opponents and they are seriouosly good drivers and very difficult to pass once you get near the front. Online racing with just about every other sim doesnt look nearly as good as this game running AI. I cant imagine simracing getting any better. Heaven, im in heaven... GTR is great! Mitch -- Remove "nospam." to reply. SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

I still think if you hit a cars rear quarter panel solidly in a high speed turn on edge of grip the car should spin out... period. I finally got an AI car to go off road by hitting it with about a 50 mph differential. It destroyed my front end, and the AI car just pulled back on the road and sped off without a scratch. Seems a lot like an Arcade game as far as the AI is concerned. Ron On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 02:16:03 GMT, Mitch_A <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (32 lines)

>Ron Milton wrote: > >> I installed the new GTR demo today, and I must say I am very impressed >> with the physics of the cars you can drive. >> >> Now the problem... I have noticed that the AI cars seem damn near >> invincible. I mean, if you tap one you are likely to spin out, but >> you can practicly ram them and they just zoom on down the track! >> >> Is this just the demo, and the actual game will behave correctly, or >> have I missed something? I have tried this in 'simulation' and >> 'semi-pro' modes and it does it in both. >> >> I am used to driving 'F1 Challenge' which behaves much better. >> >> Ron > >Ya just got to hit em right ;) I havent really found the problem you >describe. It gives a pretty realistic feel to me. When you hit em it >really feels like youre hitting something with mass and adhesion and a >square hit generally wont spin em either. > >They will sure come get you aferwards if youre not on top of your game thats >for sure. I been creeping up but currently I run against 94% Psychotic >opponents and they are seriouosly good drivers and very difficult to pass >once you get near the front. Online racing with just about every other sim >doesnt look nearly as good as this game running AI. I cant imagine >simracing getting any better. Heaven, im in heaven... > >GTR is great! > >Mitch

> Ya just got to hit em right ;) I havent really found the problem you > describe. It gives a pretty realistic feel to me. When you hit em it > really feels like youre hitting something with mass and adhesion and a > square hit generally wont spin em either. > > They will sure come get you aferwards if youre not on top of your gamethats > for sure. I been creeping up but currently I run against 94% Psychotic > opponents and they are seriouosly good drivers and very difficult to pass > once you get near the front. Online racing with just about every othersim > doesnt look nearly as good as this game running AI. I cant imagine > simracing getting any better. Heaven, im in heaven... Psychotic?!?! I had to scale 'em back to Clean, because they kept blocking while I was braking. When you're braking as hard as possible (at least for me) off line, it's damn near impossible to suddenly swerve. :) To answer the original post, I've not had the problem either. I can tag someone in the back while braking (try not to) or rub mid corner without problems. On the other side of it, I've had the AI scoot me aside without issue so long as I don't force the issue. Are you sure it's not to do with your reaction to or just prior to the bump? Ya know, something like suddenly shifting the weight forward. NR2003 had the problem you describe, but I've not noticed it with the GTR demo. In fact, I've had many tight, competitive races with a field full of 360s. The only frustrating part is my poor driving! Alan

> I still think if you hit a cars rear quarter panel solidly in a high > speed turn on edge of grip the car should spin out... period. I > finally got an AI car to go off road by hitting it with about a 50 mph > differential. It destroyed my front end, and the AI car just pulled > back on the road and sped off without a scratch. Seems a lot like an > Arcade game as far as the AI is concerned. Hmmm.... haven't noticed that. In fact, I'm fairly certain I've spun a few myself by pushing into their rear quarter. I've even seen (and both benefitted and wrecked from) the AI screwing up Eau Rouge on exit and spinning. I'll have to give it a try and see. Alan

You know, I think you are right. I have been runing myself off the road with my reaction to the AI drivers. I just went for another sping around the track and had a much better experience by relaxing more. However, I still feel there is a problem with the phyics of the AI drivers. It is not just that they don't seem to make driving mistakes, I can't seem to even force them to have driving mishaps. I will probably purchase the Sim when it is released here in the USA anyway because it realy feels good doing those high speed laps in a GT racer! On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 03:53:48 GMT, "Alan Le" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (30 lines)

>> Ya just got to hit em right ;) I havent really found the problem you >> describe. It gives a pretty realistic feel to me. When you hit em it >> really feels like youre hitting something with mass and adhesion and a >> square hit generally wont spin em either. >> >> They will sure come get you aferwards if youre not on top of your game >thats >> for sure. I been creeping up but currently I run against 94% Psychotic >> opponents and they are seriouosly good drivers and very difficult to pass >> once you get near the front. Online racing with just about every other >sim >> doesnt look nearly as good as this game running AI. I cant imagine >> simracing getting any better. Heaven, im in heaven... > >Psychotic?!?! I had to scale 'em back to Clean, because they kept blocking >while I was braking. When you're braking as hard as possible (at least for >me) off line, it's damn near impossible to suddenly swerve. :) To answer the >original post, I've not had the problem either. I can tag someone in the >back while braking (try not to) or rub mid corner without problems. On the >other side of it, I've had the AI scoot me aside without issue so long as I >don't force the issue. > >Are you sure it's not to do with your reaction to or just prior to the bump? >Ya know, something like suddenly shifting the weight forward. NR2003 had >the problem you describe, but I've not noticed it with the GTR demo. In >fact, I've had many tight, competitive races with a field full of 360s. The >only frustrating part is my poor driving! > >Alan >

Ron Milton wrote: > I installed the new GTR demo today, and I must say I am very > impressed with the physics of the cars you can drive. > > Now the problem... I have noticed that the AI cars seem damnnear > invincible. I mean, if you tap one you are likely to spinout, but > you can practicly ram them and they just zoom on down thetrack! > > Is this just the demo, and the actual game will behavecorrectly, or > have I missed something? I have tried this in 'simulation'and > 'semi-pro' modes and it does it in both. Try Arcade mode. The way to get passed the AI cars is to keep your speed up approaching the turns then brake hard. Unless you go off track, it's hard to spin in Arcade mode. I have done 2:06.xxx with the GT but I've heard of 2:02. Hit the other cars if you have to while passing. Brrr > > I am used to driving 'F1 Challenge' which behaves muchbetter. > > Ron

I guess the point is, I don't what to play arcade mode. I wan't a realistic sim with the AI cars having an equal chance of damage or sliding and spinning as I do. I just went back and loaded 'F1 Challenge' and 'GPL' and ran a few laps. Based on the 'GTR' Demo, 'GTR' looks and sounds good, but I still don't know if it is better. Ron On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 04:04:40 -0800, "Brrrrr" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (37 lines)

>Ron Milton wrote: >> I installed the new GTR demo today, and I must say I am very >> impressed with the physics of the cars you can drive. >> >> Now the problem... I have noticed that the AI cars seem damn >near >> invincible. I mean, if you tap one you are likely to spin >out, but >> you can practicly ram them and they just zoom on down the >track! >> >> Is this just the demo, and the actual game will behave >correctly, or >> have I missed something? I have tried this in 'simulation' >and >> 'semi-pro' modes and it does it in both. > >Try Arcade mode. The way to get passed the AI cars is to keep >your speed up approaching the turns then brake hard. Unless you >go off track, it's hard to spin in Arcade mode. I have done >2:06.xxx with the GT but I've heard of 2:02. > >Hit the other cars if you have to while passing. > > > >Brrr > > > >> >> I am used to driving 'F1 Challenge' which behaves much >better. >> >> Ron > >

Ron wrote:

Quoted text (49 lines)

> I guess the point is, I don't what to play arcade mode. I wan't a > realistic sim with the AI cars having an equal chance of damage or > sliding and spinning as I do. > > I just went back and loaded 'F1 Challenge' and 'GPL' and ran a few > laps. Based on the 'GTR' Demo, 'GTR' looks and sounds good, but I > still don't know if it is better. > > Ron > > On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 04:04:40 -0800, "Brrrrr" <[email hidden]> wrote: > >>Ron Milton wrote: >>> I installed the new GTR demo today, and I must say I am very >>> impressed with the physics of the cars you can drive. >>> >>> Now the problem... I have noticed that the AI cars seem damn >>near >>> invincible. I mean, if you tap one you are likely to spin >>out, but >>> you can practicly ram them and they just zoom on down the >>track! >>> >>> Is this just the demo, and the actual game will behave >>correctly, or >>> have I missed something? I have tried this in 'simulation' >>and >>> 'semi-pro' modes and it does it in both. >> >>Try Arcade mode. The way to get passed the AI cars is to keep >>your speed up approaching the turns then brake hard. Unless you >>go off track, it's hard to spin in Arcade mode. I have done >>2:06.xxx with the GT but I've heard of 2:02. >> >>Hit the other cars if you have to while passing. >> >> >> >>Brrr >> >> >> >>> >>> I am used to driving 'F1 Challenge' which behaves much >>better. >>> >>> Ron >> >>

Remember it is only a demo. Im not saying the full version will improve the areas you describe but it is just a demo. -- Remove "nospam." to reply. SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

I guess I will just have to wait until the USA release of the final product. I have some other gripes, but they may be a matter of tuning or differences in demo vs. the final release. I won't dwell on it, but just briefly, in my opinion the force feedback is not subtle enough and just does not feel right to me, and the demo car (again this is probably setup) has a tendency for the rear to oscillate at high speeds if the wheel is not held perfectly steady. I look forward to GTR's USA release in March as it looks like a very ambitious project. But I am trying not to get my hopes too high. Having seen many generations of entertainment software developed, with very few exceptions, it is usually more about taking advantage of newer glitzier graphics and sound capabilities of new generation hardware than it is about building on past code algorithms to develop more realistic feel and performance. I would gladly give up some of the former to get more of the later. Ron On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 16:44:47 GMT, Mitch_A <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (54 lines)

>Ron wrote: > >> I guess the point is, I don't what to play arcade mode. I wan't a >> realistic sim with the AI cars having an equal chance of damage or >> sliding and spinning as I do. >> >> I just went back and loaded 'F1 Challenge' and 'GPL' and ran a few >> laps. Based on the 'GTR' Demo, 'GTR' looks and sounds good, but I >> still don't know if it is better. >> >> Ron >> >> On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 04:04:40 -0800, "Brrrrr" <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >>>Ron Milton wrote: >>>> I installed the new GTR demo today, and I must say I am very >>>> impressed with the physics of the cars you can drive. >>>> >>>> Now the problem... I have noticed that the AI cars seem damn >>>near >>>> invincible. I mean, if you tap one you are likely to spin >>>out, but >>>> you can practicly ram them and they just zoom on down the >>>track! >>>> >>>> Is this just the demo, and the actual game will behave >>>correctly, or >>>> have I missed something? I have tried this in 'simulation' >>>and >>>> 'semi-pro' modes and it does it in both. >>> >>>Try Arcade mode. The way to get passed the AI cars is to keep >>>your speed up approaching the turns then brake hard. Unless you >>>go off track, it's hard to spin in Arcade mode. I have done >>>2:06.xxx with the GT but I've heard of 2:02. >>> >>>Hit the other cars if you have to while passing. >>> >>> >>> >>>Brrr >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> I am used to driving 'F1 Challenge' which behaves much >>>better. >>>> >>>> Ron >>> >>> > >Remember it is only a demo. Im not saying the full version will improve the >areas you describe but it is just a demo.

Ron wrote:

Quoted text (77 lines)

> I guess I will just have to wait until the USA release of the final > product. I have some other gripes, but they may be a matter of tuning > or differences in demo vs. the final release. I won't dwell on it, > but just briefly, in my opinion the force feedback is not subtle > enough and just does not feel right to me, and the demo car (again > this is probably setup) has a tendency for the rear to oscillate at > high speeds if the wheel is not held perfectly steady. > > I look forward to GTR's USA release in March as it looks like a very > ambitious project. But I am trying not to get my hopes too high. > Having seen many generations of entertainment software developed, with > very few exceptions, it is usually more about taking advantage of > newer glitzier graphics and sound capabilities of new generation > hardware than it is about building on past code algorithms to develop > more realistic feel and performance. I would gladly give up some of > the former to get more of the later. > > Ron > > > On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 16:44:47 GMT, Mitch_A <[email hidden]> > wrote: > >>Ron wrote: >> >>> I guess the point is, I don't what to play arcade mode. I wan't a >>> realistic sim with the AI cars having an equal chance of damage or >>> sliding and spinning as I do. >>> >>> I just went back and loaded 'F1 Challenge' and 'GPL' and ran a few >>> laps. Based on the 'GTR' Demo, 'GTR' looks and sounds good, but I >>> still don't know if it is better. >>> >>> Ron >>> >>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 04:04:40 -0800, "Brrrrr" <[email hidden]> wrote: >>> >>>>Ron Milton wrote: >>>>> I installed the new GTR demo today, and I must say I am very >>>>> impressed with the physics of the cars you can drive. >>>>> >>>>> Now the problem... I have noticed that the AI cars seem damn >>>>near >>>>> invincible. I mean, if you tap one you are likely to spin >>>>out, but >>>>> you can practicly ram them and they just zoom on down the >>>>track! >>>>> >>>>> Is this just the demo, and the actual game will behave >>>>correctly, or >>>>> have I missed something? I have tried this in 'simulation' >>>>and >>>>> 'semi-pro' modes and it does it in both. >>>> >>>>Try Arcade mode. The way to get passed the AI cars is to keep >>>>your speed up approaching the turns then brake hard. Unless you >>>>go off track, it's hard to spin in Arcade mode. I have done >>>>2:06.xxx with the GT but I've heard of 2:02. >>>> >>>>Hit the other cars if you have to while passing. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Brrr >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> I am used to driving 'F1 Challenge' which behaves much >>>>better. >>>>> >>>>> Ron >>>> >>>> >> >>Remember it is only a demo. Im not saying the full version will improve >>the areas you describe but it is just a demo.

A couple key tweaks for me that helped tremendously were, first and foremost the tire sound/scrubbing/squeal. I really crank em up. In the neighborhood of 130%. Call it a weak tire model or at least not up to standard but the sound increase makes up for the lack of "feel" in spades imo. I didnt do anything different from NR2003 on my Momo force/ecci. IIRC I used a guy named sphankys Momo setup guide and the FF is just about pefect out the box on my rig. I do get the oscilations you describe though but not to the point where its a problem for me. I can damp out some but I like the positive feel without damping more. Im suprised to hear someone say F1C was better in any respect. Im no F1C expert by any means but it always seemed to missing something. I cant quite put my finger on it but tire model always seemed very weak to me. People still complain of GTR in the same way but to me its improved dramatically. Mitch -- Remove "nospam." to reply. SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

Alan Le wrote:

Quoted text (14 lines)

>> I still think if you hit a cars rear quarter panel solidly in a high >> speed turn on edge of grip the car should spin out... period. I >> finally got an AI car to go off road by hitting it with about a 50 mph >> differential. It destroyed my front end, and the AI car just pulled >> back on the road and sped off without a scratch. Seems a lot like an >> Arcade game as far as the AI is concerned. > > Hmmm.... haven't noticed that. In fact, I'm fairly certain I've spun a > few > myself by pushing into their rear quarter. I've even seen (and both > benefitted and wrecked from) the AI screwing up Eau Rouge on exit and > spinning. I'll have to give it a try and see. > > Alan

I just happened to catch the Busch race on Speed just now and I think part of the greatness of the GTR/AI combo is the ability to "root" (as DW says) your opponent out of his line to take the spot. In any online racing game Ive ever run root'ing (as in bumping outta way) is really just "wrecking" as thats usually the end result. That Stewart save was truly spectacular. The announcers were almost speechless for a minute or so after, then its like it set in all of a sudden. About the time the spotter said "thats somethin Earnhardt would do". On another note for Ron. I keep thinking about what you said "hitting the AI with a 30mph differential does nothing and is very arcadish". It seems to me just having the AI set so low as to introduce this speed differential is more arcadish than having the AI set to a respectable level that simulates real life to a finer degree than 30mph. Not that accidents dont happen. And boy, when set to Psychotic they really do happen, maybe too often hehe. Mitch -- Remove "nospam." to reply. SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

I have played with the FF and and steering sensitivity adjustments and it is much better but the steering at speed it loose near center, too loose for my liking. The tire model with F1C is not all that great, but with my MOMO I can feel the steering force lighten as the rear tires go away and I start to slide. Also the slight shudder in the steering when you jam on the brakes at high speed gives a realistic feel. Steering is also very linear in F1C. There is a lot to like as what is done is done well. I do however like the steering chop I feel in GTR as I go into a turn and the car is 'pushing' slightly . Nicely done. I have played with the tire sounds and it does seem to improve situational awareness. I can't seem to get used to the visual perspective in GTR. I use either over the hood or the nose view, and it seems they have stretched the view perspective to enhance speed illusion, not a natural 1:1 perspective. This skews depth perception. Is there an adjustment for this I am missing? Ron On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:10:02 GMT, Mitch_A <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (22 lines)

> >A couple key tweaks for me that helped tremendously were, first and foremost >the tire sound/scrubbing/squeal. I really crank em up. In the >neighborhood of 130%. Call it a weak tire model or at least not up to >standard but the sound increase makes up for the lack of "feel" in spades >imo. > >I didnt do anything different from NR2003 on my Momo force/ecci. IIRC I >used a guy named sphankys Momo setup guide and the FF is just about pefect >out the box on my rig. > >I do get the oscilations you describe though but not to the point where its >a problem for me. I can damp out some but I like the positive feel without >damping more. > >Im suprised to hear someone say F1C was better in any respect. Im no F1C >expert by any means but it always seemed to missing something. I cant >quite put my finger on it but tire model always seemed very weak to me. >People still complain of GTR in the same way but to me its improved >dramatically. > >Mitch

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 20:55:24 GMT, Ron wrote: > > natural 1:1 perspective. This skews depth perception. Is there an > adjustment for this I am missing? I think you need to drive GTR from the in-cockpit perspective to fully appreciate the "situational awareness", i.e. the "being there" feeling that the sim provides. I tried the bumper cam view, but it just did not feel "right" in a way. Cheers, uwe -- GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

Ron wrote:

Quoted text (8 lines)

> > I can't seem to get used to the visual perspective in GTR. I use > either over the hood or the nose view, and it seems they have > stretched the view perspective to enhance speed illusion, not a > natural 1:1 perspective. This skews depth perception. Is there an > adjustment for this I am missing? > > Ron

Blasphemy!!!!! And to dare to compare anything in GTR as arcade when you dont race from the pit? Being the cockpit prude I am I cant give ya any help beyond the pit, sorry. Speaking of the cockpit. I really like the adjustability of the seating position with the mouse. Very nice detail and much needed in all sims. Mitch -- Remove "nospam." to reply. SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

Wow! I think I need to flail myself and beg forgiveness. I have been so stuck on open cockpit formula one cars that I was feeling claustrophobic in a closed cockpit. That said, I have now driven from the 'proper' cockpit and that solved all of my handling problems. I can go like mad now! Maybe the AI problems will be fixed in the release version. Ron On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 21:49:49 GMT, Mitch_A <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (23 lines)

>Ron wrote: > >> >> I can't seem to get used to the visual perspective in GTR. I use >> either over the hood or the nose view, and it seems they have >> stretched the view perspective to enhance speed illusion, not a >> natural 1:1 perspective. This skews depth perception. Is there an >> adjustment for this I am missing? >> >> Ron > >Blasphemy!!!!! > >And to dare to compare anything in GTR as arcade when you dont race from the >pit? > >Being the cockpit prude I am I cant give ya any help beyond the pit, sorry. > >Speaking of the cockpit. I really like the adjustability of the seating >position with the mouse. Very nice detail and much needed in all sims. > > >Mitch

Ron <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

Quoted text (7 lines)

> I guess I will just have to wait until the USA release of the final > product. I have some other gripes, but they may be a matter of tuning > or differences in demo vs. the final release. I won't dwell on it, > but just briefly, in my opinion the force feedback is not subtle > enough and just does not feel right to me, and the demo car (again > this is probably setup) has a tendency for the rear to oscillate at > high speeds if the wheel is not held perfectly steady.

The force feedback with ISI sims can be bewitching. Setup a softly sprung car, use the auto-setup thingy if you want and move the sliders towards a softer setup with maybe some understeer. Now go out on the track and the FF will feel very very weak. Now go back to the sliders and create a stiff setup. Don't change anything else, just stiffen the setup...go back out...And see if you are strong enough to turn the suddenly much stiffer wheel.

Quoted text (13 lines)

> > I look forward to GTR's USA release in March as it looks like a very > ambitious project. But I am trying not to get my hopes too high. > Having seen many generations of entertainment software developed, with > very few exceptions, it is usually more about taking advantage of > newer glitzier graphics and sound capabilities of new generation > hardware than it is about building on past code algorithms to develop > more realistic feel and performance. I would gladly give up some of > the former to get more of the later. > > Ron >

GTR uses Motor1.5.(Isi's name for it's software package) rFactor uses a truncated version of Motor 2.0. Given the acclaim everyone seems to have for rFactor's online demo, imagine what GTR2 will be next year with the Motor 2+ engine. dave henrie Showing my Mopar stripes...I'll get GTR if for no other reason than it may be the last sim that covers the Dodge/Chrysler GTS-R Viper. A grand ol car that ruled it's day. A time when cars were cars and not GTP prototypes with a skin job.

Ron <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

Quoted text (9 lines)

> > I can't seem to get used to the visual perspective in GTR. I use > either over the hood or the nose view, and it seems they have > stretched the view perspective to enhance speed illusion, not a > natural 1:1 perspective. This skews depth perception. Is there an > adjustment for this I am missing? > > Ron >

(sorry I can't resist stirring up trouble, nothing personal Ron.) SURE there is something you are missing!!! The COCKPIT!! dave(being a bad bad boy)henrie

Quoted text (7 lines)

>I guess I will just have to wait until the USA release of the final > product. I have some other gripes, but they may be a matter of tuning > or differences in demo vs. the final release. I won't dwell on it, > but just briefly, in my opinion the force feedback is not subtle > enough and just does not feel right to me, and the demo car (again > this is probably setup) has a tendency for the rear to oscillate at > high speeds if the wheel is not held perfectly steady.

I think both of these things you refer to are connected with the FF which I would agree isn't perfect. I usually turn the strength down to about 60-70% as I think it's too 'notchy' in the corners at the default. Twitchiness at high speed is often cured by reducing the steering lock a couple of degrees in the car setup. Give it time and play around with it and I reckon you'll come to love it as many of us have.

Thanks for the help Mitch, GTR has really come around for me since I am now driving in the 'pit'! After a couple of tweaks to the steering my opinion and competence at driving has had a huge turn around. There are only a few minor annoyances left, and part of that is a personal preference. Now I just have to wait for the USA release of the sim. Ron... On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 21:49:49 GMT, Mitch_A <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (12 lines)

>Blasphemy!!!!! > >And to dare to compare anything in GTR as arcade when you dont race from the >pit? > >Being the cockpit prude I am I cant give ya any help beyond the pit, sorry. > >Speaking of the cockpit. I really like the adjustability of the seating >position with the mouse. Very nice detail and much needed in all sims. > > >Mitch

Ron wrote:

Quoted text (12 lines)

> Thanks for the help Mitch, > > GTR has really come around for me since I am now driving in the 'pit'! > After a couple of tweaks to the steering my opinion and competence at > driving has had a huge turn around. > > There are only a few minor annoyances left, and part of that is a > personal preference. > > Now I just have to wait for the USA release of the sim. > > Ron...

Yea but as I search around I dont see anything about a US release anywhere. We may still have to go the online retail route even for the Intl release unfortunately. Yeehaw Ron, chalk up another GTR convert :) I dont recall ever having to work so hard against any AI ever. Im up to 94% Psycotic and I can rarely finish the 15% race. When I do though it brings a giant smile and a great feeling of satisfaction (along with a wet t-shirt). When I get a win at a given AI skill I bump em up a notch. I can barely imagine these nuts at 100% ;) Mitch -- Remove "nospam." to reply. SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a