GP3 was written in England. The internet still costs a bomb here.
Thierry Cailleteau <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:8melaa$16$[email hidden]...
how
> game developpers have missed what happened with VROC, and the perspectives
> it led to. The greatest fun with a racing sim is to race ONLINE. Thats
> probably the reason why i'll abandon GP3 very soon, as i did with everyrace
important
> than whining about the (poor) graphics and the (poor) sounds.
>
> Thierry Cailleteau, going back to VROC and possibly CounterStrike :-)
>
>
>
Is GP3's lack of internet play a serious omission?
Thierry Cailleteau said he could accept GP3's flaws but not its lack of internet play. Some agreed it was inexcusable given GPL and NASCAR Racing 3, while David G Fisher and Tracey Miller argued online racers are too few to affect sales. Others noted that good AI matters for those with poor connections and recommended offline leagues.
Automated summary.
On Fri, 4 Aug 2000 16:53:18 +0200, "Thierry Cailleteau"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
>I'd like to know your opinions about this, which seems to me more important
>than whining about the (poor) graphics and the (poor) sounds.
I couldn't care less, I only play online games if they're offering a
cooperative mode. Bet that's hard to find in a racing sim, other
than Destruction Derby maybe. :-)
Jan
Drafting pacts in N3??
Jan.
=---
Jan Loebzien wrote...
> I couldn't care less, I only play online games if they're offering a
> cooperative mode. Bet that's hard to find in a racing sim, other
> than Destruction Derby maybe. :-)
Drafting pacts in N3??
Jan.
=---
Hello fellow pilots
Just to say i can deal with the prehistoric graphics, i can deal with the
schematic physical model, and i can deal with this GP2 add-on, as the
playability seems interesting after all.
I just cant deal with the lack of internet play. I just dont understand how
game developpers have missed what happened with VROC, and the perspectives
it led to. The greatest fun with a racing sim is to race ONLINE. Thats
probably the reason why i'll abandon GP3 very soon, as i did with every race
sim since GPL. No racing online is no fun. I'm bored of wasting time on
lonely hotlaps.
Damn, if they have to do a patch first, i hope they'll implement ONLINE
TCP/IP racing, even before patching separate axis fot my MSFF.
If they dont, my game is for sale :-)
I'd like to know your opinions about this, which seems to me more important
than whining about the (poor) graphics and the (poor) sounds.
Thierry Cailleteau, going back to VROC and possibly CounterStrike :-)
To be honest, after reading some of the posts on various forums, I'm not
sure I would WANT to play online against many of the GP3 mass, you see
online gaming, from Ultima Online to Quake/Half-Life when aimed at the
masses has ALWAYS attracted the exploiters and the cheats, VROC IMHO
differs because of the hardcore nature of GPL, it actually takes skill
and perseverance, wheareas with it's lower-market aim, GP3 will attract
the exploit kiddies and the 'win-at-any-cost' types.
Not that this of course in anyway excuses the lack of 'option'
(BTW you've never seen me on VROC, or GPLRank, because my GPL driving
skills are soooooooooooo lame ;) )
Alan
Thierry Cailleteau wrote:
Quoted text (23 lines)
> > Hello fellow pilots > > Just to say i can deal with the prehistoric graphics, i can deal with the > schematic physical model, and i can deal with this GP2 add-on, as the > playability seems interesting after all. > > I just cant deal with the lack of internet play. I just dont understand how > game developpers have missed what happened with VROC, and the perspectives > it led to. The greatest fun with a racing sim is to race ONLINE. Thats > probably the reason why i'll abandon GP3 very soon, as i did with every race > sim since GPL. No racing online is no fun. I'm bored of wasting time on > lonely hotlaps. > > Damn, if they have to do a patch first, i hope they'll implement ONLINE > TCP/IP racing, even before patching separate axis fot my MSFF. > > If they dont, my game is for sale :-) > > I'd like to know your opinions about this, which seems to me more important > than whining about the (poor) graphics and the (poor) sounds. > > Thierry Cailleteau, going back to VROC and possibly CounterStrike :-)On Fri, 4 Aug 2000 16:53:18 +0200, "Thierry Cailleteau"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
I agree with this. It is inexcusable that in the here and now GP3
does not have Internet play. Take a look at GPL, released years ago.
Take a look at Nascar 3. Both of these series have excellent
multiplayer capabilities. But not so with GP3. It's really a shame:
the game online (I've tried IPX with Kali)reminds me of F1RS, but only
ten times worse.
Still, it is unlikely that Microprose or Hasbro is going to give us
some sort of patch to add Internet play. I mean, the way multiplayer
is now in GP3, this would take a lot of work.
I still will play GP3, though I have recently reinstalled both N3 and
GPL so that I can also race online.
If there are any rookie GPL players who are interested in online
racing, give me a buzz or contact me at ICQ 4046944. VROC is great
but being only a rookie I hate to race with the big boys, since doing
so will sometimes mess them up.
Later,
Alanb
Quoted text (25 lines)
> >Hello fellow pilots > >Just to say i can deal with the prehistoric graphics, i can deal with the >schematic physical model, and i can deal with this GP2 add-on, as the >playability seems interesting after all. > >I just cant deal with the lack of internet play. I just dont understand how >game developpers have missed what happened with VROC, and the perspectives >it led to. The greatest fun with a racing sim is to race ONLINE. Thats >probably the reason why i'll abandon GP3 very soon, as i did with every race >sim since GPL. No racing online is no fun. I'm bored of wasting time on >lonely hotlaps. > >Damn, if they have to do a patch first, i hope they'll implement ONLINE >TCP/IP racing, even before patching separate axis fot my MSFF. > >If they dont, my game is for sale :-) > >I'd like to know your opinions about this, which seems to me more important >than whining about the (poor) graphics and the (poor) sounds. > >Thierry Cailleteau, going back to VROC and possibly CounterStrike :-) > >
Alan <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws
[email hidden]...
Well agree. BUT, it would be nice to have TCP/IP internet playability
though, because if you dont wanna race kiddies, its ofcourse also possible
to race only against people who you know already...
Quoted text (14 lines)
> To be honest, after reading some of the posts on various forums, I'm not > sure I would WANT to play online against many of the GP3 mass, you see > online gaming, from Ultima Online to Quake/Half-Life when aimed at the > masses has ALWAYS attracted the exploiters and the cheats, VROC IMHO > differs because of the hardcore nature of GPL, it actually takes skill > and perseverance, wheareas with it's lower-market aim, GP3 will attract > the exploit kiddies and the 'win-at-any-cost' types. > > Not that this of course in anyway excuses the lack of 'option' > > (BTW you've never seen me on VROC, or GPLRank, because my GPL driving > skills are soooooooooooo lame ;) ) > > AlanNobody can like racing online more than me (been doing it for three years
with various titles), but having it as a feature is not going to make much
of a difference in sales. A coupe of years ago I thought online racing in
sims would be big, but it hasn't happened.
You better hope that the makers of GP3 don't look to GPL in order to make a
decision as to whether or not online play will help boost their sales,
because the number of users is so tiny.
David G Fisher
You should hope they look to other titles that have h
"Thierry Cailleteau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:8melaa$16$[email hidden]...
how
> game developpers have missed what happened with VROC, and the perspectives
> it led to. The greatest fun with a racing sim is to race ONLINE. Thats
> probably the reason why i'll abandon GP3 very soon, as i did with everyrace
important
> than whining about the (poor) graphics and the (poor) sounds.
>
> Thierry Cailleteau, going back to VROC and possibly CounterStrike :-)
>
>
>
Quoted text (8 lines)
> > Hello fellow pilots > > Just to say i can deal with the prehistoric graphics, i can deal with the > schematic physical model, and i can deal with this GP2 add-on, as the > playability seems interesting after all. > > I just cant deal with the lack of internet play. I just dont understandQuoted text (9 lines)
> sim since GPL. No racing online is no fun. I'm bored of wasting time on > lonely hotlaps. > > Damn, if they have to do a patch first, i hope they'll implement ONLINE > TCP/IP racing, even before patching separate axis fot my MSFF. > > If they dont, my game is for sale :-) > > I'd like to know your opinions about this, which seems to me more
"Thierry Cailleteau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:8melaa$16$[email hidden]...
>
> Hello fellow pilots
>
> ....
>
> I just cant deal with the lack of internet play. I just dont understandhow
> game developpers have missed what happened with VROC, and the perspectives
> it led to. The greatest fun with a racing sim is to race ONLINE. Thats
> probably the reason why i'll abandon GP3 very soon, as i did with everyrace
> sim since GPL. No racing online is no fun. I'm bored of wasting time on
> lonely hotlaps.
> .......
>
You should try one of the offline leagues that are around, see for example
the links page at http://www.sln.sim-racing.net/. Although you do your races
against the ai, the team spirit in those leagues is usually great (depends
on the team of course:). Most teams have a mailing list, a web site and a
chat room where you can discuss setups, hotlaps, results. But also any kind
of personal thing that you want to bring up.
Both online and offline leagues have their strong points, and joining an
offline league is certainly not a lonely affair.
Bart Westra
happy to be with:
Lusa Racing
http://lusa.sim-racing.net/
http://www.lfrs.com/
MARA
http://members.home.net/ecrawford1/mara/maramain.htm
IGPLC-F3
http://home.c2i.net/igplc/
After owning GPL and Nascar3 since they hit the shelves I only race them
online. GPL's AI is by far the best I have ever raced against, each driver
seems to have his own style and they are all competitive. Nascar 3's though
still needs work. It is good but once you get under someone they back off
and it always takes them 10 or so laps to even catch up to me at the
superspeedways at the 100% setting when I would think they should be with me
the whole time. After racing the AI for a while you tend to get a little
bored with them and yearn for a race with fast, slightly unpredictable and
aggressive opponents and this is where online play comes in. Granted you
have to put up with the idiots but when you find a good group that you can
really race with then the racing is awesome. When looking for games now
(after being spoiled by these two), the first thing I look for is the number
of online opponents I can race with. With good connections I can race a full
field in GPL and a full field in Nascar 3. GP3 supports 0 from what I have
heard so I will never buy that one(I won't get into the fact that it's not
worth the price due to graphics, physics, 3 axis support and replay
problems). Nascar Heat is something I'm looking at but I'll wait to hear how
the multiplayer racing pans out, I know Nascar 4 will be good but who knows,
I might just get Heat to tide me over.
Vintook
P.S. Multiplayer is a MUST!
"Thierry Cailleteau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:8melaa$16$[email hidden]...
how
> game developpers have missed what happened with VROC, and the perspectives
> it led to. The greatest fun with a racing sim is to race ONLINE. Thats
> probably the reason why i'll abandon GP3 very soon, as i did with everyrace
important
> than whining about the (poor) graphics and the (poor) sounds.
>
> Thierry Cailleteau, going back to VROC and possibly CounterStrike :-)
>
>
>
Quoted text (8 lines)
> > Hello fellow pilots > > Just to say i can deal with the prehistoric graphics, i can deal with the > schematic physical model, and i can deal with this GP2 add-on, as the > playability seems interesting after all. > > I just cant deal with the lack of internet play. I just dont understandQuoted text (9 lines)
> sim since GPL. No racing online is no fun. I'm bored of wasting time on > lonely hotlaps. > > Damn, if they have to do a patch first, i hope they'll implement ONLINE > TCP/IP racing, even before patching separate axis fot my MSFF. > > If they dont, my game is for sale :-) > > I'd like to know your opinions about this, which seems to me moreYou think five or six hundred people, out of a couple hundred thousand
that bought the game, is a significant number? They could take
multiplayer completely out of the next game and they would only lose
about 5,000 customers, and that's assuming that every single person
that ever raced online would refuse to buy the game.
Not many people that are serious enough about sim racing to do it
online are going to skip a NASCAR game based on the GPL engine,
multiplayer or no multiplayer.
We are a very vocal minority. We listen to one another telling each
other that multiplayer is important, until we convince ourselves it's
true, but the reality is that racing games sell better on the
non-multiplayer platforms like Playstation than the PC.
"Alan Bernardo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> On Sat, 5 Aug 2000 11:57:24 -0500, "Tracey A Miller"
> <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
> >Unfortunately, there hasn't been any success in online racing.
>
> Maybe I'm taking this out of context, but the other day I waslooking
> inside the Nascar 3 servers and each section-- five or six total--had
> 100 people. That's a lot of online racers.
>
> GPL has its share of core, online racers too. The game hasn't sold
> particularly well probably because it's such a hardcore game, andmost
> folks these days don't have the patience and time it takes to race
> well and take advantage of the realism of the game.
>
> Alanb
"Michael E. Carver" wrote
> ...The true merit of a "game"
> isn't the number of sales, it's how long the interest lasts in a
> product. Some of the best classic literature never sold many copies
> when it was first published...
David's post had nothing to do with the failure of GPL to sell, even
with it's pathetic sales, if even only half of the paltry 45,000 or so
that bought the game actually raced it online, then all the other
developers might try to duplicate Papyrus' success.
Unfortunately, there hasn't been any success in online racing. And
that isn't a slam on the "legendary" GPL. The same goes for the NASCAR
ONLINE money pit (a.k.a. TEN), even though the NASCAR games themselves
sell, and I haven't heard any success stories from EA for their online
racing games, even though the games themselves have been best sellers.
For reasons that completely escape me, online racing hasn't caught on
in a big way, just as David said. People that like racing games
apparently are not the same people that like online gaming, and/or
vice versa.
On Fri 04 Aug 2000 03:53:18pm, Thierry Cailleteau wrote:
<snip>
>I just cant deal with the lack of internet play.<snip>
I agree that it's absurd to leave it out, especially after 2 years of
VROC, but as I am one (thanks, BT) who has no chance of a stable online
connection (yes, I've done all the usual - edited core.ini, changed
modems, slowed down speeds etc etc etc), a good AI is *vital* to my
enjoyment of a game. I would be distinctly unimpressed with the
laziness of a developer who says "oh well, it'll be played online, so
who cares about the AI?".
It may not be a coincidence that GP3 has the best AI of any modern F1
game I've played - it's one of the few areas where there is a major
improvement over GP2. GPL's AI is a little predictable as it stands,
but there is a replacement AI file available, from here:
http://www.kolumbus.fi/jessel/gpl
by Jesse Laasko, that makes the drivers more interesting to race
against (for one thing, they don't go round in a train for lap after
lap, but actually pull out occasionally). It's not perfect, with the AI
cars tending to crash at a few places (Mosport especially, but also the
start/finish straight bridge at Silverstone); but it is a big
improvement on the original overall.
All racing games these days should have an Internet option - just don't
make it the only thing you care about, that's all.
--
David. (GPLRank handicap: -5.12)
"After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll,
really."
(Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)
David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:HaFi5.80149$A%[email hidden]...
> Nobody can like racing online more than me (been doing it for three years
> with various titles), but having it as a feature is not going to make much
> of a difference in sales. A coupe of years ago I thought online racing in
> sims would be big, but it hasn't happened.
>
> You better hope that the makers of GP3 don't look to GPL in order to makea
> decision as to whether or not online play will help boost their sales,
> because the number of users is so tiny.
>
> David G Fisher
I certainly have to agree with David. While there is a small number of
us whose whole sim racing experience revolves around online racing with GPL,
that percentage certainly wouldn't influence any decision to include it in a
new sim to increase sales. Having raced online at VROC for more than 2
years, I can't honestly remember ever seeing more than 78 simmers there at
anyone time. At present, I believe that there is only 500+ who have
registered out of the more than 45,000 who have purchased GPL.
So why would any producer want to spend money to fund the software for
online racing that so few people are interested in? The answer is the
don't.
Joel Willstein
[email hidden]
Here Here...
Agreed 100%
Ex
Thierry Cailleteau wrote in message <8melaa$16$[email hidden]>...
race
Quoted text (11 lines)
> >Hello fellow pilots > >Just to say i can deal with the prehistoric graphics, i can deal with the >schematic physical model, and i can deal with this GP2 add-on, as the >playability seems interesting after all. > >I just cant deal with the lack of internet play. I just dont understand how >game developpers have missed what happened with VROC, and the perspectives >it led to. The greatest fun with a racing sim is to race ONLINE. Thats >probably the reason why i'll abandon GP3 very soon, as i did with everyQuoted text (15 lines)
>sim since GPL. No racing online is no fun. I'm bored of wasting time on >lonely hotlaps. > >Damn, if they have to do a patch first, i hope they'll implement ONLINE >TCP/IP racing, even before patching separate axis fot my MSFF. > >If they dont, my game is for sale :-) > >I'd like to know your opinions about this, which seems to me more important >than whining about the (poor) graphics and the (poor) sounds. > >Thierry Cailleteau, going back to VROC and possibly CounterStrike :-) > > >
Thierry Cailleteau <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:8melaa$16$[email hidden]...
how
> game developpers have missed what happened with VROC, and the perspectives
> it led to. The greatest fun with a racing sim is to race ONLINE. Thats
> probably the reason why i'll abandon GP3 very soon, as i did with everyrace
important
> than whining about the (poor) graphics and the (poor) sounds.
>
> Thierry Cailleteau, going back to VROC and possibly CounterStrike :-)
>
You know if you actually try to race the AI in GPL, GP3 oreven F12000 for
that matter it can be quite fun. Forget about those crazy moves that would
be impossible and dangerous in real life, actually race them, as you would
on VROC. Its very fun!
Quoted text (8 lines)
> > Hello fellow pilots > > Just to say i can deal with the prehistoric graphics, i can deal with the > schematic physical model, and i can deal with this GP2 add-on, as the > playability seems interesting after all. > > I just cant deal with the lack of internet play. I just dont understandQuoted text (9 lines)
> sim since GPL. No racing online is no fun. I'm bored of wasting time on > lonely hotlaps. > > Damn, if they have to do a patch first, i hope they'll implement ONLINE > TCP/IP racing, even before patching separate axis fot my MSFF. > > If they dont, my game is for sale :-) > > I'd like to know your opinions about this, which seems to me moreOn Fri, 04 Aug 2000 19:53:11 GMT David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote:
% You better hope that the makers of GP3 don't look to GPL in order to make a
% decision as to whether or not online play will help boost their sales,
% because the number of users is so tiny.
Just can't help it can you David.... dig dig dig..... Well our numbers
may be tiny.... But we are legend(*)! The true merit of a "game"
isn't the number of sales, it's how long the interest lasts in a
product. Some of the best classic literature never sold many copies
when it was first published...
(*) with the proper accent this could be heard to be as "legion" <G>
--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.
[email hidden] http://www.teleport.com/~mcarver
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
On Sat, 5 Aug 2000 11:57:24 -0500, "Tracey A Miller"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
>Unfortunately, there hasn't been any success in online racing.
Maybe I'm taking this out of context, but the other day I was looking
inside the Nascar 3 servers and each section-- five or six total-- had
100 people. That's a lot of online racers.
GPL has its share of core, online racers too. The game hasn't sold
particularly well probably because it's such a hardcore game, and most
folks these days don't have the patience and time it takes to race
well and take advantage of the realism of the game.
Alanb
On Sat, 5 Aug 2000 14:35:48 -0500, "Tracey A Miller"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
Tracey,
>You think five or six hundred people, out of a couple hundred thousand
>that bought the game, is a significant number?
Well, I'll admit that either way a lot of people do not race online
and a lot of people still can't grasp the concept of a real human
opponent, but that number that I quoted was of course just at any
particular time. I really think that Sierra/Pappy would've lost a
considerable amount of dollars had they not included multiplayer in
their latest efforts.
Still, online racing is one of the best kept secrets, and it might be
best to keep it that way.
Alanb
