Re: GPL--damn learning to LFB is hard

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Brett C. Cammack) writes: >As a personal opinion, I detest wrecks being termed "accidents" like >"whoops! look what's happened now!". That sounds like a George Carlin line...<g> > They are collisions, wrecks, >etc. and someone was at fault. Calling it an accident simply >abrogates responsibility for precipitating the wreck... Someone had a .sig: Getting struck by a meteor is an accident. Everything else is driver error. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +52.52 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Not all the time. Why do you ask? Jan Verschueren wrote:

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> > I assume you drive an automatic? ;-) > > Jan. > =--- > Pat Dotson wrote... > > Luckily for me, I learned LFB in N2, where braking > > technique is irrelevant :) > > > > Now, I can LFB in a real car very well, and wouldn't > > drive a sim without it! > > > > -- > > Pat Dotson

Steve Garrotto wrote: > > Driving a real car with both feet is not wise. In the event of an > accident you will tend to push both feet to the floor, and one foot > will still be on the accelerator! If you want to get the benefits of > 'left-foot-braking' with your real car, use the 'heel and toe' method, > which is compatible with clutches. I said I *can* do LFB in a real car. I didn't say I *always* do LFB in a real car. My point was that I can operate the brake pedal as well in a car with my left foot as I can in a sim. It took a while to develop the feel, but it's there now. I still RFB 99% of the time, especially while in traffic. As far as auto v. manual, most of my driving is in an automatic, but I had a new Corvette with a MT in my driveway for part of last week, and it was screaming for a workout :) -- Pat Dotson > [email hidden] (Olav K. Malmin) wrote: > > >"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > >> I assume you drive an automatic? ;-) > > > >Not necessarily, you "can" shift without using the clutch, but it > >requires tremendous throttle skill :) > > > >> Jan. > >> =--- > >> Pat Dotson wrote... > >> > Luckily for me, I learned LFB in N2, where braking > >> > technique is irrelevant :) > >> > > >> > Now, I can LFB in a real car very well, and wouldn't > >> > drive a sim without it! > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Pat Dotson > >> > >> > > > >-- > >Olav K. Malmin > >remove spam when replying > > (All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new > and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are > due to too many English classes/teachers)

Olav K. Malmin wrote... > Not necessarily, you "can" shift without using the clutch, but it > requires tremendous throttle skill :) I know and I'm able to do it, but it requires too fine a throttle control to make it a daily habit. Jan. =---

Nobody's advocating actually driving like this it in traffic, but some experimentation with these techniques can only be benificial. In my car the steering column is in the way for true LFB and heel toe (or sole-sole, as is the case for a central brake pedal) is only possible for people with freakishly wide feet. ;-) Jan. =--- Steve Garrotto wrote...

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> Driving a real car with both feet is not wise. In the event > of an accident you will tend to push both feet to the floor, > and one foot will still be on the accelerator! If you want > to get the benefits of 'left-foot-braking' with your real > car, use the 'heel and toe' method, which is compatible > with clutches. > > SLG

I assume you drive an automatic? ;-) Jan. =--- Pat Dotson wrote...

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> Luckily for me, I learned LFB in N2, where braking > technique is irrelevant :) > > Now, I can LFB in a real car very well, and wouldn't > drive a sim without it! > > -- > Pat Dotson

Tried the left foot: Couldn't even get around Zandy but I always suck there (PB-130, gotta hold the line better). Hit 131 something at Monza. Its a good track to practice on I think since I know it pretty well. It's funny but making my left foot brake causes my left hand to forget to downshift. Also, I sometimes don't lift completely with my right foot so I come in hot--curva grande especially. Still, I can already tell it will be worth it, if only to use my CH pedals instead of those darn LWFF ones (getting used to the pivot motion is a bitch). Well, time for some whiskey and GP3 to lift my spirits. Chris Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Luckily for me, I learned LFB in N2, where braking technique is irrelevant :) Now, I can LFB in a real car very well, and wouldn't drive a sim without it! -- Pat Dotson [email hidden] wrote: > > Tried the left foot: Couldn't even get around Zandy but I always suck > there (PB-130, gotta hold the line better). Hit 131 something at Monza. > Its a good track to practice on I think since I know it pretty well. > It's funny but making my left foot brake causes my left hand to forget > to downshift. Also, I sometimes don't lift completely with my right > foot so I come in hot--curva grande especially. Still, I can already > tell it will be worth it, if only to use my CH pedals instead of those > darn LWFF ones (getting used to the pivot motion is a bitch). Well, > time for some whiskey and GP3 to lift my spirits. > > Chris > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes: > I assume you drive an automatic? ;-) Not necessarily, you "can" shift without using the clutch, but it requires tremendous throttle skill :)

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> Jan. > =--- > Pat Dotson wrote... > > Luckily for me, I learned LFB in N2, where braking > > technique is irrelevant :) > > > > Now, I can LFB in a real car very well, and wouldn't > > drive a sim without it! > > > > -- > > Pat Dotson > >

-- Olav K. Malmin remove spam when replying

Driving a real car with both feet is not wise. In the event of an accident you will tend to push both feet to the floor, and one foot will still be on the accelerator! If you want to get the benefits of 'left-foot-braking' with your real car, use the 'heel and toe' method, which is compatible with clutches. SLG [email hidden] (Olav K. Malmin) wrote:

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>"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes: > >> I assume you drive an automatic? ;-) > >Not necessarily, you "can" shift without using the clutch, but it >requires tremendous throttle skill :) > >> Jan. >> =--- >> Pat Dotson wrote... >> > Luckily for me, I learned LFB in N2, where braking >> > technique is irrelevant :) >> > >> > Now, I can LFB in a real car very well, and wouldn't >> > drive a sim without it! >> > >> > -- >> > Pat Dotson >> >> > >-- >Olav K. Malmin >remove spam when replying

(All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are due to too many English classes/teachers)

On Tue, 08 Aug 2000 14:33:29 GMT, [email hidden] (Steve Garrotto) wrote: >Driving a real car with both feet is not wise. In the event of an >accident you will tend to push both feet to the floor, and one foot >will still be on the accelerator! If you want to get the benefits of >'left-foot-braking' with your real car, use the 'heel and toe' method, >which is compatible with clutches. I'm having a little trouble signing on to that theory. Do you have any study references to document this? Personally, in a potential collision situation I'll be modulating both pedals and steering to avoid. I think people who view their automobiles as an appliance, like a toaster or telephone, are susceptible to doing such nonsense as they are most likely to slide into a wreck with their eyes shut and both feet on the brakes. That's why anti-lock brakes haven't been a huge success. They let people steer to avoid a collision while braking hard, but most average operators (I hesitate to characterize them as drivers) freeze like deer in the headlights. They subconciously associate the brake pedal with "Make this bad thing that's happening STOP!!!!!" instead of a tool to control the dynamics of the vehicle to avoid the bad thing... The point is also moot because, unless they're driving a top fuel dragster or funny car, the brakes on the average automobile will readily overcome the engine's power _and_ stop the car from at speed. You couldn't really modulate the brakes with the accellerator floored, but if you were capable of threshold braking, you wouldn't have inadvertantly plastered the accellerator to the floor anyway. As a personal opinion, I detest wrecks being termed "accidents" like "whoops! look what's happened now!". They are collisions, wrecks, etc. and someone was at fault. Calling it an accident simply abrogates responsibility for precipitating the wreck... Regards, Brett C. Cammack That's Racing! Motorsports Pompano Beach, FL

It's been almost 25years but I can still remember them teaching us that in drivers Ed that in a panic situation some may tend to push with both feet. It's a reflex and not something that is thought about. You should be able to find documentation in your local state driving handbook. Do it when you take your driving test and you'll fail. Jim D. Brett C. Cammack wrote in message <[email hidden]>...

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>On Tue, 08 Aug 2000 14:33:29 GMT, [email hidden] (Steve >Garrotto) wrote: >>Driving a real car with both feet is not wise. In the event of an >>accident you will tend to push both feet to the floor, and one foot >>will still be on the accelerator! If you want to get the benefits of >>'left-foot-braking' with your real car, use the 'heel and toe' method, >>which is compatible with clutches. > >I'm having a little trouble signing on to that theory. Do you have >any study references to document this? Personally, in a potential >collision situation I'll be modulating both pedals and steering to >avoid. > >I think people who view their automobiles as an appliance, like a >toaster or telephone, are susceptible to doing such nonsense as they >are most likely to slide into a wreck with their eyes shut and both >feet on the brakes. That's why anti-lock brakes haven't been a huge >success. They let people steer to avoid a collision while braking >hard, but most average operators (I hesitate to characterize them as >drivers) freeze like deer in the headlights. They subconciously >associate the brake pedal with "Make this bad thing that's happening >STOP!!!!!" instead of a tool to control the dynamics of the vehicle to >avoid the bad thing... > >The point is also moot because, unless they're driving a top fuel >dragster or funny car, the brakes on the average automobile will >readily overcome the engine's power _and_ stop the car from at speed. >You couldn't really modulate the brakes with the accellerator floored, >but if you were capable of threshold braking, you wouldn't have >inadvertantly plastered the accellerator to the floor anyway. > >As a personal opinion, I detest wrecks being termed "accidents" like >"whoops! look what's happened now!". They are collisions, wrecks, >etc. and someone was at fault. Calling it an accident simply >abrogates responsibility for precipitating the wreck... > >Regards, >Brett C. Cammack >That's Racing! Motorsports >Pompano Beach, FL

Try it in a Nissan Almera. I'll be damned if the "window" is 10revs either side... sheesh! BTW: remind me not to buy a used car from you! ;-) Jan. =--- Matt Larkin wrote... > I change gear regularly without the clutch, <Snip>

Try it in a Nissan Almera. I'll be damned if the "window" is 10revs either side... sheesh! BTW: remind me not to buy a used car from you! ;-) Jan. =--- Matt Larkin wrote... > I change gear regularly without the clutch, <Snip>

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes: > Olav K. Malmin wrote... > > Not necessarily, you "can" shift without using the clutch, but it > > requires tremendous throttle skill :) > > I know and I'm able to do it, but it requires too fine a throttle control to > make it a daily habit. It also requires a thick wallet so you can pay for new gearboxes :) I haven't dared to try it in my car. -- Olav K. Malmin remove spam when replying

I change gear regularly without the clutch, both up and down gears - you just have to listen to the engine, and hope that the manufacturer of the car didn't put too much rev-related lock on the synchro gears - some cars require a precise number of revs to open up the "gate" which allows you to change gear, but on cheaper models (e.g. my Ford Fiesta (UK)) it can be done in every gear at most revs! Though I admit sometimes I crunch the gears big time - good job I am selling the car in a couple of weeks! Matt ----------------------------------------------------------- Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com