Flame alert...You should never accelerate and brake at the same time....(unless heel and toeing)

ive seen alot of posts from people who believe that there is good reason to dab the accelerator everynow and again when braking to help balance the car (pressing both pedals simultaeneously). For what purpose? They say weight shifting, but surely dabbing the accelerator pedal whilst braking hard does exactly the same thing as lifting off the brake pedal - when braking your car is decelerating, press the accel when braking and you decelerate less quickly (you retard the braking process by attempting to regain acceleration - at no point when braking is the car accelerating (obvious)). This is identical to just lifting slightly off the brake pedal. Trail braking is done when you keep braking after your turn in point. This is tricky because the car will want to swap ends on you. This is balancing the car on the brake. Once the car has begun to 'snap around' you continue to brake gently into the apex, then, when youve lifted off the brake pedal completely, you can balance the car on the accelerator. Discuss.... Is this correct? If not, why? pez isnt trying to start a fight, but is puzzled as to why people think it works.....

Aubrey wrote: > > > Don't be too depressed. Wolfgang Woeger uses a joystick, so obviously he > can't use that technique at all. > > Then again, it is a bit disturbing that he can go that fast with a lousy > joystick! I thought I read here that Wolfgang used a joystick to steer but had pedals for braking and acceleration. Dave Ewing -- ***************************************************** David A. Ewing Xilinx Boulder [email hidden] *****************************************************

In article <8F8D4E4F0dscurlock@news>, [email hidden] (Don Scurlock) writes:

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>[email hidden] (Dan Leach) wrote in ><bhSk5.1688$[email hidden]>: > >>have you ever seen a replay of greger huttu doing a lap anywhere?? thats >>the way to answer this -- he uses plenty of throttle when trailbraking and >>always keeps control. >> Dan Leach > >This thread depresses me. I know it's what's needed, I fully understand it, I > >just can't do it. >This kind of fine foot control is what seperates the aliens from the mortals. > >-- >Don(always to be mortal)Scurlock >Vancouver,B.C. >GPLRank -5.09

I know the feeling Don. But at least YOU'RE in the negatives. You're a lot closer to E.T. than *I* am...<g> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +51.95 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

pez <[email hidden]> schrieb > ive seen alot of posts from people who believe that there is good reasonto > dab the accelerator everynow and again when braking to help balance thecar > (pressing both pedals simultaeneously). For what purpose? > > They say weight shifting, but surely dabbing the accelerator pedal whilst > braking hard does exactly the same thing as lifting off the brake pedal - > when braking your car is decelerating, press the accel when braking andyou > decelerate less quickly (you retard the braking process by attempting to > regain acceleration - at no point when braking is the car accelerating > (obvious)). This is identical to just lifting slightly off the brakepedal. In principle you are right, but assuming you have rear wheel driven car as in GPL, the throttle applied while braking only takes away the braking force of the rear wheels. And this is the important factor, you can shift the brake balance forward in real time. > Trail braking is done when you keep braking after your turn in point.This > is tricky because the car will want to swap ends on you. This isbalancing > the car on the brake. Once the car has begun to 'snap around' youcontinue > to brake gently into the apex, then, when youve lifted off the brake pedal > completely, you can balance the car on the accelerator. Yes, trail braking hasn't anything to do with applying the throttle while braking, ...theoretically. But when you overdo the braking or turn in too sharp your rear will want to come around and applying a little bit of throttle will stop this. I don't know if this really translates to real life, but in GPL I find it much easier to balance the car with brake and throttle to the apex than using only the brake. Peter

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> > Discuss.... > > Is this correct? If not, why? > > pez isnt trying to start a fight, but is puzzled as to why people think it > works..... > >

As the car slows down the brake balance effectively moves backwards. I'm not really sure why, but that's how it feels to me. Theoretically, giving it a little gas as you trail-brake can lessen this effect, but actually I don't use the technique much myself. "pez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8mvava$8cm$[email hidden]... > ive seen alot of posts from people who believe that there is good reasonto > dab the accelerator everynow and again when braking to help balance thecar > (pressing both pedals simultaeneously). For what purpose?

Well that's what you have to do when your a right foot braker. ;) But if you can hit the gas a little bit when braking/downshifting you can reduce the amount of engine braking and have a better balanced car. When braking in a straight line you don't want to hit the gas enough to over power the brakes but to just eliminate the engine braking effect. It will make your braking smoother and you can brake deeper as your car will be less twitchy. Also your braking will be much more predictable as your Bias won't be moving around due to engine braking. Personaly, I find the (auto)throttle blips are not big or long enough in GPL. It's a driver style thing I guess. But when Trail Braking you can tap the gas to change the rear brake Bias. Your not overpowering the brakes with the gas but just reduced the amount of braking power. It's not the same as lifting off the brakes,imo, Because your still braking to the maximum with the front tires. When lifting off the brakes to gain traction for the rear tires you are reducing the braking power of the front wheels and increasing your braking distance. That's the way I see it anyway. pez wrote:

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> > ive seen alot of posts from people who believe that there is good reason to > dab the accelerator everynow and again when braking to help balance the car > (pressing both pedals simultaeneously). For what purpose? > > They say weight shifting, but surely dabbing the accelerator pedal whilst > braking hard does exactly the same thing as lifting off the brake pedal - > when braking your car is decelerating, press the accel when braking and you > decelerate less quickly (you retard the braking process by attempting to > regain acceleration - at no point when braking is the car accelerating > (obvious)). This is identical to just lifting slightly off the brake pedal. > > Trail braking is done when you keep braking after your turn in point. This > is tricky because the car will want to swap ends on you. This is balancing > the car on the brake. Once the car has begun to 'snap around' you continue > to brake gently into the apex, then, when youve lifted off the brake pedal > completely, you can balance the car on the accelerator. > > Discuss.... > > Is this correct? If not, why? > > pez isnt trying to start a fight, but is puzzled as to why people think it > works.....

> They say weight shifting, but surely dabbing the accelerator pedal whilst > braking hard does exactly the same thing as lifting off the brake pedal - > when braking your car is decelerating, press the accel when braking andyou > decelerate less quickly (you retard the braking process by attempting to > regain acceleration - at no point when braking is the car accelerating > (obvious)). This is identical to just lifting slightly off the brakepedal. You are missing one point here. What happens to the differential when it transitions from gas off to gas on? Think about it. MS

have you ever seen a replay of greger huttu doing a lap anywhere?? thats the way to answer this -- he uses plenty of throttle when trailbraking and always keeps control. Dan Leach "pez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8mvava$8cm$[email hidden]... > ive seen alot of posts from people who believe that there is good reasonto > dab the accelerator everynow and again when braking to help balance thecar > (pressing both pedals simultaeneously). For what purpose? > > They say weight shifting, but surely dabbing the accelerator pedal whilst > braking hard does exactly the same thing as lifting off the brake pedal - > when braking your car is decelerating, press the accel when braking andyou > decelerate less quickly (you retard the braking process by attempting to > regain acceleration - at no point when braking is the car accelerating > (obvious)). This is identical to just lifting slightly off the brakepedal. > > Trail braking is done when you keep braking after your turn in point.This > is tricky because the car will want to swap ends on you. This isbalancing > the car on the brake. Once the car has begun to 'snap around' youcontinue

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> to brake gently into the apex, then, when youve lifted off the brake pedal > completely, you can balance the car on the accelerator. > > Discuss.... > > Is this correct? If not, why? > > pez isnt trying to start a fight, but is puzzled as to why people think it > works..... > >

[email hidden] (Dan Leach) wrote in <bhSk5.1688$[email hidden]>: >have you ever seen a replay of greger huttu doing a lap anywhere?? thats >the way to answer this -- he uses plenty of throttle when trailbraking and >always keeps control. > Dan Leach This thread depresses me. I know it's what's needed, I fully understand it, I just can't do it. This kind of fine foot control is what seperates the aliens from the mortals. -- Don(always to be mortal)Scurlock Vancouver,B.C. GPLRank -5.09 Come see how you rank, at the GPLRank site http://gplrank.schuerkamp.de/

"Don Scurlock" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8F8D4E4F0dscurlock@news... > [email hidden] (Dan Leach) wrote in > <bhSk5.1688$[email hidden]>: > > This thread depresses me. I know it's what's needed, I fully understandit, I > just can't do it. > This kind of fine foot control is what seperates the aliens from themortals. >Don't be too depressed. Wolfgang Woeger uses a joystick, so obviously he can't use that technique at all. Then again, it is a bit disturbing that he can go that fast with a lousy joystick! -Aubrey

On Fri, 11 Aug 2000 17:15:35 -0600, David Ewing <[email hidden]> wrote: > >I thought I read here that Wolfgang used a joystick to steer but had pedals >for braking and acceleration. Nope, joystick only. Andre > >Dave Ewing

Andre Warringa wrote:

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> On Fri, 11 Aug 2000 17:15:35 -0600, David Ewing <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > > > >I thought I read here that Wolfgang used a joystick to steer but had pedals > >for braking and acceleration. > > Nope, joystick only.

Wow. That's pretty amazing. Dave Ewing -- ***************************************************** David A. Ewing Xilinx Boulder [email hidden] *****************************************************

In article <[email hidden]>, Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> writes

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>On Fri, 11 Aug 2000 17:15:35 -0600, David Ewing <[email hidden]> >wrote: > >> >>I thought I read here that Wolfgang used a joystick to steer but had pedals >>for braking and acceleration. > >Nope, joystick only. > >Andre >

Does he use in-car or external view, do you know? -- Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) Remove ALL_STRESS before replying No person's opinions can be said to be more correct than another's, because each is the sole judge of his or her own experience.

On Sat, 19 Aug 2000 19:12:38 +0100, Peter Ives <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>In article <[email hidden]>, Andre Warringa ><[email hidden]> writes >>On Fri, 11 Aug 2000 17:15:35 -0600, David Ewing <[email hidden]> >>wrote: >> >>> >>>I thought I read here that Wolfgang used a joystick to steer but had pedals >>>for braking and acceleration. >> >>Nope, joystick only. >> >>Andre >> > >Does he use in-car or external view, do you know?

External view. Andre

In article <[email hidden]>, Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> writes

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>On Sat, 19 Aug 2000 19:12:38 +0100, Peter Ives ><[email hidden]> wrote: > >>In article <[email hidden]>, Andre >Warringa >><[email hidden]> writes >>>On Fri, 11 Aug 2000 17:15:35 -0600, David Ewing <[email hidden]> >>>wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>I thought I read here that Wolfgang used a joystick to steer but had >pedals >>>>for braking and acceleration. >>> >>>Nope, joystick only. >>> >>>Andre >>> >> >>Does he use in-car or external view, do you know? > >External view. > >Andre

Mmm? So am I one of the only negatively GPLranked, joystick drivers who always uses in-car view then? Who else? -- Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) Remove ALL_STRESS before replying No person's opinions can be said to be more correct than another's, because each is the sole judge of his or her own experience.