Re: F12K and V1.09 patch -- WOW!

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Johan N) wrote: <LIBERAL SNIP> > You should try the new patch, it's called GP3 :) > All I can say is WoW.... I have had a chance to sample GP3, and the only "wow" it elicited from me was when I said, "Wow, compared to F12K, the physics model in GP3 seems life-like and lively than all four of my grandparents combined." (Note: All four of my grandparents are deceased) ;-) -- JB Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Kind of weird having us agree like this, isn't it? Does that make F1 neutral ground regarding the IRL/CART issue? <G> ;-) -- JB In article <mEDk5.23461$[email hidden]>, "Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> wrote: > <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:8muhrl$o5b$[email hidden]... > > The physics in F12K really amaze me -- and I have to ask, how comemore > > of you GPL fanatics aren't all over this game? I feel like GregCisko > > and I are the only two people who give F12K the credit itdeserves. I

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> > There are more that pop up all the time. I am just more vocal and > piss everyone off the most :-) > > -- > > [email hidden] > >

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote: > Got it set up like that and, like I said in another post, the patchmakes > all the difference in the world. I really like it, but I'm stillfaced with > two problems. > > 1) The FF just doesn't produce enough centering force, even if youboost the > FF to a level (via the Game Controllers panel) that 'll kick thewheel out > of your hands if you get a see-saw going. Anybody using a touch ofcentering > spring and, if so, is it benificial? -Other solutions to this problem? Sorry, Jan -- I haven't tried using a FF setup with F12K yet, so I can't help on this point. > 2) Rear end just lets go at "TAP" (throttle application point) in2nd/3rd > gear corners after about 10-15 laps (soft tyres, temp indicatorsreddish > puple and even across thread, wear indicators still green). Throwingwing at > it doesn't help, neither does noodling up the suspension and/orincreasing > rideheight (even tried a stiff as a board/"on stilts" setup to see ifit > possibly was bump rubbers). My mechanical setup is basically a GPLsetup, > i.e. medium everything, spring linked to weight distribution, antiroll bars > to a 67/33 split front-rear, brake bias at 52% front, diff 35%(doesn't seem > to affect the phenomenon). I've changed the dampers from the defaultsto > having the bump side slightly "stiffer" than the rebound. Not sureabout the > wings... I now have slightly more front wing than rear and that feelspretty > good in fast turns, so I guess it's ok. Haven't tried actuallychanging the > relative magnitude of slow and fast damping settings yet. Trouble is, > there's no warning... there's no "oops" moment on lap twelve tosignal I > might be well advised not to lean on the accellerator too hard. It'sjust > business as usual until it swaps ends. There's also no "going"moment, just > "gone". Maybe this is realistic, but having seen some massivedrifting in > the RL F1 Austria race I somehow doubt that. This runs contrary to my findings -- the rear-end DOES get very sensitive to throttle inputs after you get a little tire wear, but I find this VERY easy to correct for as long as the adrenaline isn't flowing too much (that is, as long as I pay attention and don't push it too hard). The thing I REALLY like about F12K is how "catchable" it is, much like GPL -- if/when I DO get too deep in the throttle in a low gear coming out of a turn, I CAN catch it if I'm fast enough. Not every time, mind you, but it all seems reaction-dependent and not canned, which seems very realistic to me. Just curiously, what wheel/pedal combo are you using? If it's a Logitech setup, then it could be the short pedal throw that's killing you here. Even with the various controllers that I have at my disposal, I've been using a Thrustmaster SuperSport for a couple of months now specifically because I REALLY like the long pedal throw, and that may be working to my benefit when rolling onto the throttle while coming out of the low-gear corners in F12K. > I generally have a hard time feeling how much grip is there in F12K,whereas > in GPL this is never a problem and if I do overestimate it there isample > warning/time to react. I'm well aware this will be both more subtleand > shorter in modern F1, but I doubt the current RL drivers mind acceptit's > going to start breaking away on lap 14 and start taking it easy atthat > point. I'm sure they can somehow feel how deep they can bury thatright foot > and have some measure of recoverability. This isn't a problem for me, which leads me to ask if you're achieving decent-enough frame rates in F12K? At 18 - 25 fps, I find that I can really feel the traction limits after the tires come up to temp. The four-wheel drifts are much different in F12K than in GPL, but they are similar enough that I feel like I get a pretty good idea of where I am in the friction circle at any given time. Note that I have the graphics tweaked out to the point where I can get a pretty consistent frame rate at all points of the track -- at lower, sluggish, or variable/inconsistent frame rates, I DO have a hard time gauging how much grip I have on-tap. Hope this helps a bit. -- JB Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

CORRECTION -- my original statement SHOULD read: ". . . seems LESS life-like and lively than all four of my grandparents combined." ;-) -- JB In article <8mv22v$5n9$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] wrote:

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> In article <[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] (Johan N) wrote: > > <LIBERAL SNIP> > > > You should try the new patch, it's called GP3 :) > > All I can say is WoW.... > > I have had a chance to sample GP3, and the only "wow" it elicited from > me was when I said, "Wow, compared to F12K, the physics model in GP3 > seems life-like and lively than all four of my grandparents combined." > (Note: All four of my grandparents are deceased) > > ;-) > > -- JB > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy. >

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

In article <zCDk5.23460$[email hidden]>, "Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> wrote: <SNIP> > > gear corners after about 10-15 laps (soft tyres, temp indicatorsreddish > > puple and even across thread, wear indicators still green).Throwing wing > at > > Has anyone ever seen these green indicators change??? You mean the four blocks on the steering wheel indicator that are supposed to represent tire wear indicators, I believe? If so, then YES, I have seen them change -- a spin puts them into the purple or red, and they go from green to yellow to red over the course of a quick race for me. Do you have tire wear disabled, by chance?? -- JB Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Jan Verschueren wrote: > > Unfortunately, GP3 isn't even a patch on F12K. ;-) > > Jan./just playing with words as well. No, GP3 is a standalone patch. It makes F12k redundant. ;) -- l8er ronny Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change to take effect. Reboot now? |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

Press "U" to see what your tire wear percentage is. Anything in the 80-89% range is dangerous -- probably around 10-15 laps in ;-) Jason. Jan Verschueren wrote:

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> > 2) Rear end just lets go at "TAP" (throttle application point) in 2nd/3rd > gear corners after about 10-15 laps (soft tyres, temp indicators reddish > puple and even across thread, wear indicators still green). > Jan. > =--- >

-- Jason Monds http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (N3, GPL) http://members.home.net/stuff.mondsj/csp - Car Sim Project (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

Got it set up like that and, like I said in another post, the patch makes all the difference in the world. I really like it, but I'm still faced with two problems. 1) The FF just doesn't produce enough centering force, even if you boost the FF to a level (via the Game Controllers panel) that 'll kick the wheel out of your hands if you get a see-saw going. Anybody using a touch of centering spring and, if so, is it benificial? -Other solutions to this problem? 2) Rear end just lets go at "TAP" (throttle application point) in 2nd/3rd gear corners after about 10-15 laps (soft tyres, temp indicators reddish puple and even across thread, wear indicators still green). Throwing wing at it doesn't help, neither does noodling up the suspension and/or increasing rideheight (even tried a stiff as a board/"on stilts" setup to see if it possibly was bump rubbers). My mechanical setup is basically a GPL setup, i.e. medium everything, spring linked to weight distribution, anti roll bars to a 67/33 split front-rear, brake bias at 52% front, diff 35% (doesn't seem to affect the phenomenon). I've changed the dampers from the defaults to having the bump side slightly "stiffer" than the rebound. Not sure about the wings... I now have slightly more front wing than rear and that feels pretty good in fast turns, so I guess it's ok. Haven't tried actually changing the relative magnitude of slow and fast damping settings yet. Trouble is, there's no warning... there's no "oops" moment on lap twelve to signal I might be well advised not to lean on the accellerator too hard. It's just business as usual until it swaps ends. There's also no "going" moment, just "gone". Maybe this is realistic, but having seen some massive drifting in the RL F1 Austria race I somehow doubt that. I generally have a hard time feeling how much grip is there in F12K, whereas in GPL this is never a problem and if I do overestimate it there is ample warning/time to react. I'm well aware this will be both more subtle and shorter in modern F1, but I doubt the current RL drivers mind accept it's going to start breaking away on lap 14 and start taking it easy at that point. I'm sure they can somehow feel how deep they can bury that right foot and have some measure of recoverability. Jan. =--- JB wrote... > Okay, I know this is OLD news, <snip>

Unfortunately, GP3 isn't even a patch on F12K. ;-) Jan./just playing with words as well. =--- Johan N wrote... > You should try the new patch, it's called GP3 :) > All I can say is WoW....

Okay, I know this is OLD news, but, what can I say -- I've been a slacker. Why, you ask? Well, because I just got around to downloading the 1.09 patch for F12K yesterday, and after I got it installed, I must say that I am now more impressed than ever with F12K. The patch improved a lot of things in subtle ways, and I'm coming to like this game more and more. The physics in F12K really amaze me -- and I have to ask, how come more of you GPL fanatics aren't all over this game? I feel like Greg Cisko and I are the only two people who give F12K the credit it deserves. I love the little "whoop" feelings you get when going over bumps in some tracks, and I swear I can actually feel the car bottoming out in the dips at times. This game engine is MUCH improved over its humble SCGT roots, and it feels VERY much like GPL with wings and aerodynamics to me. F12K does feel much easier to drive than GPL, but I think it's the aero aids and the downforce that makes it that way. Any way to rip the wings off the car to see how it compares, I wonder? Maybe someone could produce a 1967 Eagle or Ferrari as add-on car for F12K -- now THAT would make for some interesting comparisons, wouldn't it? <G> Anyway, if you have F12K and you haven't got the patch installed yet, DO IT -- it really spiffs up the game a lot, IMO. I downloaded it at the BHMS site: http://www.bhmotorsports.com/f12k_uti_pat.htm Enjoy! -- JB Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

I've got it all set up but can't get it to recognize my ch pedals. I am a bit hesitant to spend hours trying to get my system working when I have noticed the FF effects are kinda bad--NOT like GPL. Still, every few days I give it a shot. Just haven't hit the target yet. Chris --aarrgghhhhhh In article <8muhrl$o5b$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] wrote: > Okay, I know this is OLD news, but, what can I say -- I've been a > slacker. Why, you ask? Well, because I just got around todownloading > the 1.09 patch for F12K yesterday, and after I got it installed, Imust > say that I am now more impressed than ever with F12K. The patch > improved a lot of things in subtle ways, and I'm coming to like this > game more and more. > > The physics in F12K really amaze me -- and I have to ask, how comemore

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> of you GPL fanatics aren't all over this game? I feel like Greg Cisko > and I are the only two people who give F12K the credit it deserves. I > love the little "whoop" feelings you get when going over bumps in some > tracks, and I swear I can actually feel the car bottoming out in the > dips at times. This game engine is MUCH improved over its humble SCGT > roots, and it feels VERY much like GPL with wings and aerodynamics to > me. F12K does feel much easier to drive than GPL, but I think it's

the > aero aids and the downforce that makes it that way. Any way to ripthe

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> wings off the car to see how it compares, I wonder? Maybe someone > could produce a 1967 Eagle or Ferrari as add-on car for F12K -- now > THAT would make for some interesting comparisons, wouldn't it? <G> > > Anyway, if you have F12K and you haven't got the patch installed yet, > DO IT -- it really spiffs up the game a lot, IMO. I downloaded it at > the BHMS site: > > http://www.bhmotorsports.com/f12k_uti_pat.htm > > Enjoy! > > -- JB > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy. >

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

I've got that patch and my primary reason for not really playing the game is that on my system (P3/550 128mb ATI Rage Fury Maxx 64mb) I can not run a full field with all graphics turned on. That's my biggest gripe. Otherwise, F1 2000 isn't all that bad. <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8muhrl$o5b$[email hidden]...

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> Okay, I know this is OLD news, but, what can I say -- I've been a > slacker. Why, you ask? Well, because I just got around to downloading > the 1.09 patch for F12K yesterday, and after I got it installed, I must > say that I am now more impressed than ever with F12K. The patch > improved a lot of things in subtle ways, and I'm coming to like this > game more and more. > > The physics in F12K really amaze me -- and I have to ask, how come more > of you GPL fanatics aren't all over this game? I feel like Greg Cisko > and I are the only two people who give F12K the credit it deserves. I > love the little "whoop" feelings you get when going over bumps in some > tracks, and I swear I can actually feel the car bottoming out in the > dips at times. This game engine is MUCH improved over its humble SCGT > roots, and it feels VERY much like GPL with wings and aerodynamics to > me. F12K does feel much easier to drive than GPL, but I think it's the > aero aids and the downforce that makes it that way. Any way to rip the > wings off the car to see how it compares, I wonder? Maybe someone > could produce a 1967 Eagle or Ferrari as add-on car for F12K -- now > THAT would make for some interesting comparisons, wouldn't it? <G> > > Anyway, if you have F12K and you haven't got the patch installed yet, > DO IT -- it really spiffs up the game a lot, IMO. I downloaded it at > the BHMS site: > > http://www.bhmotorsports.com/f12k_uti_pat.htm > > Enjoy! > > -- JB > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.

In article <8muhrl$o5b$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> Okay, I know this is OLD news, but, what can I say -- I've been a > slacker. Why, you ask? Well, because I just got around to downloading > the 1.09 patch for F12K yesterday, and after I got it installed, I must > say that I am now more impressed than ever with F12K. The patch > improved a lot of things in subtle ways, and I'm coming to like this > game more and more. > > The physics in F12K really amaze me -- and I have to ask, how come more > of you GPL fanatics aren't all over this game? I feel like Greg Cisko > and I are the only two people who give F12K the credit it deserves. I > love the little "whoop" feelings you get when going over bumps in some > tracks, and I swear I can actually feel the car bottoming out in the > dips at times. This game engine is MUCH improved over its humble SCGT > roots, and it feels VERY much like GPL with wings and aerodynamics to > me. F12K does feel much easier to drive than GPL, but I think it's the > aero aids and the downforce that makes it that way. Any way to rip the > wings off the car to see how it compares, I wonder? Maybe someone > could produce a 1967 Eagle or Ferrari as add-on car for F12K -- now > THAT would make for some interesting comparisons, wouldn't it? <G> > > Anyway, if you have F12K and you haven't got the patch installed yet, > DO IT -- it really spiffs up the game a lot, IMO. I downloaded it at > the BHMS site: > > http://www.bhmotorsports.com/f12k_uti_pat.htm > > Enjoy! > > -- JB > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy. >

You should try the new patch, it's called GP3 :) All I can say is WoW....

"Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:TDAk5.370$[email hidden]... > I've got that patch and my primary reason for not really playing the > game is that on my system (P3/550 128mb ATI Rage Fury Maxx 64mb) I can not > run a full field with all graphics turned on. That's my biggest gripe. Correct. You shouldn't be able to. I run at 800x600 and have some stuff turned down. When I was testing the EAX SB Live! stuff yesterday at Hungary, I was getting 15fps. And that is good enough *FOR ME* :-) So turn some stuff down :-) Also, I don't think your video card is cutting the mustard. -- [email hidden]

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > 1) The FF just doesn't produce enough centering force, even if you boostthe > FF to a level (via the Game Controllers panel) that 'll kick the wheel out > of your hands if you get a see-saw going. Anybody using a touch ofcentering > spring and, if so, is it benificial? -Other solutions to this problem? Yes. I set the centering FF force on my LWFF to 50%. It is actually pretty good then. > 2) Rear end just lets go at "TAP" (throttle application point) in 2nd/3rd I haven't noticed that I have that problem. Maybe different driving styles? > gear corners after about 10-15 laps (soft tyres, temp indicators reddish > puple and even across thread, wear indicators still green). Throwing wingat Has anyone ever seen these green indicators change??? > I generally have a hard time feeling how much grip is there in F12K,whereas I sure don't. I was doing several quick races at hungary yesterday. at the 50% point, many cars were pitting for tires. But I stayed out and they were very loose. I get to the point where I can actually try to go to the edge grip wise. I was amazed at the feeling of driving I get with this game. In GP2 and World Circuit you could memorize the curcuit and make sure you were in a certain gear at a certain point. Then no matter what you did with the accelerator you would not spin out. But be one gear too high and you would "can-spin". No such stuff like that in F12K. -- [email hidden]

<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8muhrl$o5b$[email hidden]... > The physics in F12K really amaze me -- and I have to ask, how come more > of you GPL fanatics aren't all over this game? I feel like Greg Cisko > and I are the only two people who give F12K the credit it deserves. I There are more that pop up all the time. I am just more vocal and piss everyone off the most :-) -- [email hidden]

Yep, i agree totally. I said it from the beginning. F1 2000 is the best F1 sim at this moment (imo). Comparing with GPL has no use i think, because the kind of the carbehaviour is really different. Anyway, if guys like to race online races (tcp/ip internet does work!!), come and join people at www.mplayer.com. Go to the 'Official Formula 1 Racing' section. There are people meeting each others in the lobby there, for playing F1 2000. Every two weeks (after the real F1 race) people are gonna race many laps, with pits, etc etc (tyre/mechanical wear on high level). Its awsome. Especially when you live pretty near each other (lets say same continent), the game runs pretty well online. Anyway, maybe i will see ya guys. Btw i did a 1:12:7xx at Hungary (without the patch and altering any files...). HJ <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws 8muhrl$o5b$[email hidden]...

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> Okay, I know this is OLD news, but, what can I say -- I've been a > slacker. Why, you ask? Well, because I just got around to downloading > the 1.09 patch for F12K yesterday, and after I got it installed, I must > say that I am now more impressed than ever with F12K. The patch > improved a lot of things in subtle ways, and I'm coming to like this > game more and more. > > The physics in F12K really amaze me -- and I have to ask, how come more > of you GPL fanatics aren't all over this game? I feel like Greg Cisko > and I are the only two people who give F12K the credit it deserves. I > love the little "whoop" feelings you get when going over bumps in some > tracks, and I swear I can actually feel the car bottoming out in the > dips at times. This game engine is MUCH improved over its humble SCGT > roots, and it feels VERY much like GPL with wings and aerodynamics to > me. F12K does feel much easier to drive than GPL, but I think it's the > aero aids and the downforce that makes it that way. Any way to rip the > wings off the car to see how it compares, I wonder? Maybe someone > could produce a 1967 Eagle or Ferrari as add-on car for F12K -- now > THAT would make for some interesting comparisons, wouldn't it? <G> > > Anyway, if you have F12K and you haven't got the patch installed yet, > DO IT -- it really spiffs up the game a lot, IMO. I downloaded it at > the BHMS site: > > http://www.bhmotorsports.com/f12k_uti_pat.htm > > Enjoy! > > -- JB > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8mv4dj$7n6$[email hidden]... > You mean the four blocks on the steering wheel indicator that are > supposed to represent tire wear indicators, I believe? If so, then > YES, I have seen them change -- a spin puts them into the purple or > red, and they go from green to yellow to red over the course of a quick > race for me. Do you have tire wear disabled, by chance?? I thought I did... But I'm going to have to check it again. -- [email hidden]

<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8mv2ue$6ck$[email hidden]... > Kind of weird having us agree like this, isn't it? Does that make F1 > neutral ground regarding the IRL/CART issue? <G> > > ;-) Apparently. As I have already forgotten who the asshole was that I was discussing that IRL/CART issue with :-) -- [email hidden]

Greg, that is precisely my point. I loathe cutting down on graphics. (Yes I know, it's a pet peeve but I'm not satisfied (just speaking for me of course) unless I can run all my games (whatever they be) on full graphics. When GPL came out, I bought the Voodoo 2. Now I know my system isn't tops but F1-2K just doesn't cut the mustard on my system once all 22 cars are loaded. And that I can not tolerate. "Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bwDk5.23458$[email hidden]... > "Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:TDAk5.370$[email hidden]... > > I've got that patch and my primary reason for not really playingthe > > game is that on my system (P3/550 128mb ATI Rage Fury Maxx 64mb) I cannot

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> > run a full field with all graphics turned on. That's my biggest gripe. > > Correct. You shouldn't be able to. I run at 800x600 and have some > stuff turned down. When I was testing the EAX SB Live! stuff yesterday > at Hungary, I was getting 15fps. And that is good enough *FOR ME* :-) > > So turn some stuff down :-) Also, I don't think your video card is > cutting the mustard. > > > -- > > [email hidden] > > > > > > >

LoL....We need a real driver to settle the debate amongst the current crop of new F1 sims. JUAN MONTOYA...Hello, are you reading this newsgroup? <grin> Cheers!!!!

<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8muhrl$o5b$[email hidden]...

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> Okay, I know this is OLD news, but, what can I say -- I've been a > slacker. Why, you ask? Well, because I just got around to downloading > the 1.09 patch for F12K yesterday, and after I got it installed, I must > say that I am now more impressed than ever with F12K. The patch > improved a lot of things in subtle ways, and I'm coming to like this > game more and more. > > The physics in F12K really amaze me -- and I have to ask, how come more > of you GPL fanatics aren't all over this game? I feel like Greg Cisko > and I are the only two people who give F12K the credit it deserves. I > love the little "whoop" feelings you get when going over bumps in some > tracks, and I swear I can actually feel the car bottoming out in the > dips at times. This game engine is MUCH improved over its humble SCGT > roots, and it feels VERY much like GPL with wings and aerodynamics to > me. F12K does feel much easier to drive than GPL, but I think it's the > aero aids and the downforce that makes it that way. Any way to rip the > wings off the car to see how it compares, I wonder? Maybe someone > could produce a 1967 Eagle or Ferrari as add-on car for F12K -- now > THAT would make for some interesting comparisons, wouldn't it? <G> > > Anyway, if you have F12K and you haven't got the patch installed yet, > DO IT -- it really spiffs up the game a lot, IMO. I downloaded it at > the BHMS site: > > http://www.bhmotorsports.com/f12k_uti_pat.htm > > Enjoy! > > -- JB

I like F12k, its better than its given credit for but I have a few problems with it. 1. The tracks are very unlike any other F1 sim, perhaps its F12K's unbelievably accurate tracks which make all other look bad but I doubt it. 2. The car feels too light or something, like as if its hovering and not plonked the ground 3. The tyres. There are modelled incorrectly, as they get hotter they perform worse and worse. They are at their best when cold, and by the time they reach red are easily spun, and yellow is impossible to drive on. They should be understeering at blue and yellow and at their best at red. That sorta ruins it for me now that GP3 is out..

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Johan N) wrote: <SNIP> > I can't really understand your thoughts. For me it's just fast > breathtaking action all the way. Having all the trouble in the world > to correct the steering wheel when rear spins out a little. > Have you really turned off all steering help and reduced the steering > sensitivity lever. It's a little bit of poking to do when setting up > the controllers but it's worth it. I have ALL helps turned off, and I've tweaked the steering sensitivity to where it's satisfactory. I've played a LOT of GPL, Viper Racing, DTR, SCGT, NFSPU, etc., and I'm pretty familiar with GP2, so setting up GP3 and disabling the things I didn't want (like driving aids) wasn't a problem -- the problem for me lies in the lack of feeling, and the dismal graphics (I kid you not -- GP2 looks better on my machine). The frame rates are also dismal, which takes away from the overall feeling, I think, so that may be the biggest reason why our opinions differ so much. -- JB Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote: <SNIP>

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> 2) Rear end just lets go at "TAP" (throttle application point) in > 2nd/3rd gear corners after about 10-15 laps (soft tyres, temp > indicators reddish puple and even across thread, wear indicators > still green). Throwing wing at it doesn't help, neither does noodling > up the suspension and/or increasing rideheight (even tried a stiff as > a board/"on stilts" setup to see if it possibly was bump rubbers). My > mechanical setup is basically a GPL setup, i.e. medium everything, > spring linked to weight distribution, anti roll bars to a 67/33 split > front-rear, brake bias at 52% front, diff 35% (doesn't seem to affect > the phenomenon). I've changed the dampers from the defaults to having > the bump side slightly "stiffer" than the rebound. Not sure about the > wings... I now have slightly more front wing than rear and that feels > pretty good in fast turns, so I guess it's ok. Haven't tried actually > changing the relative magnitude of slow and fast damping settings > yet. Trouble is, there's no warning... there's no "oops" moment on > lap twelve to signal I might be well advised not to lean on the > accellerator too hard. It's just business as usual until it swaps > ends. There's also no "going" moment, just "gone". Maybe this is > realistic, but having seen some massive drifting in the RL F1 Austria > race I somehow doubt that.

You might be having a throttle sensitivity problem more than anything else -- I found this on the Black Hole Motorsports site: ------------ Here is a way to adjust the brake sensitivity (helps to keep the tires from locking up as soon as you touch the brakes): * Open the Default.vhs file in the season00/Vehicles folder * Open the vhs file with notepad and adjust the braking_ratio to 6000- 8000, from the default of (9490.2). ------------ Check out the BHMS site for more good stuff: http://www.bhmotorsports.com/ I hope this helps a bit -- I haven't had to mess with it myself, but I'm working with a looooong pedal throw with my Thrustmaster pedals, so it may not be a problem for me. -- JB Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Yes. I run either 20% races with 5x tire/fuel wear or 33% races with 3x wear and I get the yellow tire-wear indicator if I try to use up a full tank of gas. Jason. Greg Cisko wrote: > > Has anyone ever seen these green indicators change??? > -- Jason Monds http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (N3, GPL) http://members.home.net/stuff.mondsj/csp - Car Sim Project (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

[email hidden] wrote:

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> > In article <[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] (Johan N) wrote: > > <LIBERAL SNIP> > > > You should try the new patch, it's called GP3 :) > > All I can say is WoW.... > > I have had a chance to sample GP3, and the only "wow" it elicited from > me was when I said, "Wow, compared to F12K, the physics model in GP3 > seems life-like and lively than all four of my grandparents combined." > (Note: All four of my grandparents are deceased) > > ;-)

Wow, now I know why you like DTR so much. It's as bumpy and jumpy as F12k. :) -- l8er ronny Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change to take effect. Reboot now? |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

In article <5UFk5.23481$[email hidden]>, "Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> wrote: > <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:8mv2ue$6ck$[email hidden]... > > Kind of weird having us agree like this, isn't it? Does that makeF1 > > neutral ground regarding the IRL/CART issue? <G> > > > > ;-) > > Apparently. As I have already forgotten who the asshole was > that I was discussing that IRL/CART issue with :-) LOL! I'm sure it was ONE of us (er, well, more than likely BOTH, come to think of it!) ;-) -- JB Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

In article <8mv46f$7cm$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> CORRECTION -- my original statement SHOULD read: > > ". . . seems LESS life-like and lively than all four of my grandparents > combined." > > ;-) > > -- JB > > > In article <8mv22v$5n9$[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] wrote: > > In article <[email hidden]>, > > [email hidden] (Johan N) wrote: > > > > <LIBERAL SNIP> > > > > > You should try the new patch, it's called GP3 :) > > > All I can say is WoW.... > > > > I have had a chance to sample GP3, and the only "wow" it elicited from > > me was when I said, "Wow, compared to F12K, the physics model in GP3 > > seems life-like and lively than all four of my grandparents combined." > > (Note: All four of my grandparents are deceased) > > > > ;-) > > > > -- JB > >

I can't really understand your thoughts. For me it's just fast breathtaking action all the way. Having all the trouble in the world to correct the steering wheel when rear spins out a little. Have you really turned off all steering help and reduced the steering sensitivity lever. It's a little bit of poking to do when setting up the controllers but it's worth it. -- Greetings Johan N [email hidden]

"Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:q7Gk5.525$[email hidden]... > Greg, that is precisely my point. I loathe cutting down on graphics. > (Yes I know, it's a pet peeve but I'm not satisfied (just speaking for meof > course) unless I can run all my games (whatever they be) on full graphics. > When GPL came out, I bought the Voodoo 2. Now I know my system isn't > tops but F1-2K just doesn't cut the mustard on my system once all 22 cars > are loaded. And that I can not tolerate. I guess I agree. I have a P3-600 and get 15fps @800x600 while racing against 22 cars in a GP. So I can't recommend the game to anyone with a lesser CPU :-) -- [email hidden]

On Thu, 10 Aug 2000 23:43:15 +0100, "GraDee" <[email hidden]> thus spoke:

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>3. The tyres. There are modelled incorrectly, as they get hotter they >perform worse and worse. >They are at their best when cold, and by the time they reach red are easily >spun, and yellow is impossible to drive on. >They should be understeering at blue and yellow and at their best at red. >That sorta ruins it for me now that GP3 is out.. > >

Someone made a patch that alters the tire wear, but I can't remember whereto get it. Sorry. -- Nos

In article <8muhrl$o5b$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] writes: >The physics in F12K really amaze me -- and I have to ask, how come more >of you GPL fanatics aren't all over this game? I feel like Greg Cisko >and I are the only two people who give F12K the credit it deserves. I don't know that I'm a GPL *fanatic*... F1 2K is ok, but it had/has a high computer requirement. Which means it doesn't work on some people's systems without turning down a lot of graphics options. This, in turn detracts from the total experience.

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> I >love the little "whoop" feelings you get when going over bumps in some >tracks, and I swear I can actually feel the car bottoming out in the >dips at times. This game engine is MUCH improved over its humble SCGT >roots, and it feels VERY much like GPL with wings and aerodynamics to >me. F12K does feel much easier to drive than GPL, but I think it's the >aero aids and the downforce that makes it that way. Any way to rip the >wings off the car to see how it compares, I wonder? Maybe someone >could produce a 1967 Eagle or Ferrari as add-on car for F12K -- now >THAT would make for some interesting comparisons, wouldn't it? <G> > >Anyway, if you have F12K and you haven't got the patch installed yet, >DO IT -- it really spiffs up the game a lot, IMO. I downloaded it at >the BHMS site: > >http://www.bhmotorsports.com/f12k_uti_pat.htm

The 'whoop' effect you mention is too pronounced on my sistem. At Hockenheim and Interlagos especially(I've only run about 5 tracks), the screen is so jumpy that I can't see the track clearly. I realize it's simulating the bumpiness of the circuit, but this makes it very annoying. I can't run more than about 20% in Brazil without getting a headache from the screen... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +51.95 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

John, Greg, Jason, Thanks for your input. Good to know I hadn't hit on something structural. I checked my framerate with the "fraps"-utility and I get around 30fps, so that wasn't it. In fact, it's probably a combination of setup and driving style. I'm nearly convinced it's actually bumps in the track that are catching me out as the tyres wear (89-91% when it happens). Part limitation of the number of polys in the track, part simulation rate I'm sure (just like RC2000), but something I can learn to live with. Time to start messing with those dampers I guess. Jan. =--- John Bodin wrote... > <snip>