Re: NASCAR Heat is to GP3

>Maybe NH is way better, it's a shame they choose such a crap racing series. > *yawn* >Well, I think you got the point that I do't like NASCRAP, but that's my >view. It certainly is...but it is also my view that you can take your view and shove it. Racer X Veteran Sim Racer #4 Corvette C5-R in the GTIC #24 Monte Carlo in the DORL Victory Lane- http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/

Let me guess...you don't like racing so close you that you might actually touch another car...lol. It's a ton of fun, give it a chance and you'll be hooked. All fun to the wind, Nascar racing online in any form is a blast! Get some squirrel juice in your blood and come on boy!! JJ Target 12 <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > >Maybe NH is way better, it's a shame they choose such a crap racingseries.

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> > > > *yawn* > > >Well, I think you got the point that I do't like NASCRAP, but that's my > >view. > > It certainly is...but it is also my view that you can take your view and

shove

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> it. > Racer X > Veteran Sim Racer > #4 Corvette C5-R in the GTIC > #24 Monte Carlo in the DORL > Victory Lane- > http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/ >

as an aged Black Angus Ribeye is to a plain McDonald's burger. It's really sad that such a piece of shite was ever released.

"mracer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > as an aged Black Angus Ribeye is to a plain McDonald's burger. > > It's really sad that such a piece of shite was ever released. >Thanks for the fine arguments we haven't heard before! Maybe NH is way better, it's a shame they choose such a crap racing series. Maybe GP3 tends to be an little arcadish game simulating a racing series, NH will be a realistic sim simulating an arcadish racing series. Be honest: you build some sort of racing chassis, you put in the biggest low-tech engine you can get and than build a bodywork around it that make your think look just like a car that it isn't. Then you paint it in colours that are so bright and that combine so badly that even the guys in Mir can see it and are disgusted by it. Then your driver tries to get in. He has to climb through the windows, cause they forgot the doors. I cannot imagine I ever saw another type of closed car (roadcar or raceingcar) that had no doors Well, the driver is inside, the race starts. Then they are allowed to do things that costed Schumi all his points in 1997. I like close racing, I like a lot of overtaking (and therefore I like the Michigan oval), but it has to be fair. Diving into gaps that are non-existant and driving others of the road on a regular basis is certainly no my idea of racing. Well, I think you got the point that I do't like NASCRAP, but that's my view. However, I will try the NH-demo, but I think it will be hard since I will have to imagine I am driving a Champcar all the time grtngs, hgrm

If not that, was it paint chips? -- ================== Blake Burns Psicosis* on WON Newbie Extraordinaire Skotty Flynn <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Were you beaten as a child? > > > On Sat, 12 Aug 2000 21:06:40 +0200, "Han Monsees" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Thanks for the fine arguments we haven't heard before! > > > >Maybe NH is way better, it's a shame they choose such a crap racing series. > > > >Maybe GP3 tends to be an little arcadish game simulating a racing series, > >NH will be a realistic sim simulating an arcadish racing series. > > > >Be honest: you build some sort of racing chassis, you put in the biggest > >low-tech engine you can get and than build a bodywork around it that make > >your think look just like a car that it isn't. Then you paint it in colours > >that are so bright and that combine so badly that even the guys in Mir can > >see it and are disgusted by it. > > > >Then your driver tries to get in. He has to climb through the windows, cause > >they forgot the doors. I cannot imagine I ever saw another type of closed > >car (roadcar or raceingcar) that had no doors > > > >Well, the driver is inside, the race starts. Then they are allowed to do > >things that costed Schumi all his points in 1997. I like close racing, I > >like a lot of overtaking (and therefore I like the Michigan oval), but it > >has to be fair. Diving into gaps that are non-existant and driving others of > >the road on a regular basis is certainly no my idea of racing. > > > >Well, I think you got the point that I do't like NASCRAP, but that's my > >view. However, I will try the NH-demo, but I think it will be hard since I > >will have to imagine I am driving a Champcar all the time > > > >grtngs, > >hgrm > > >

In article <8n478f$ddq$[email hidden]>, "Han Monsees" <[email hidden]> writes: >Be honest: you build some sort of racing chassis, you put in the biggest >low-tech engine you can get and than build a bodywork around it that make >your think look just like a car that it isn't. Then you paint it in colours >that are so bright and that combine so badly that even the guys in Mir can >see it and are disgusted by it. >And Champ cars or F1 cars have never had garish paint jobs? Okayyy... >Then your driver tries to get in. He has to climb through the windows, cause >they forgot the doors. I cannot imagine I ever saw another type of closed >car (roadcar or raceingcar) that had no doorsThat's just a stupid argument. Who cares? > >Well, the driver is inside, the race starts. Then they are allowed to do >things that costed Schumi all his points in 1997. I like close racing, I >like a lot of overtaking (and therefore I like the Michigan oval), but it >has to be fair. Diving into gaps that are non-existant and driving others of >the road on a regular basis is certainly no my idea of racing. Don't cars fight for position in every race series(except drag racing)? That means that occasionally two cars go for the same spot of track. Stuff happens. Have you ever watched the touring cars? You think NASCAR has rough drivers...? Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +51.95 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Sat, 12 Aug 2000 19:21:21 -0400, "J. Janasov" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Let me guess...you don't like racing so close you that you might actually >touch another car...lol. It's a ton of fun, give it a chance and you'll be >hooked. All fun to the wind, Nascar racing online in any form is a blast! >Get some squirrel juice in your blood and come on boy!! What the hell is squirrel juice?? Nascar fans ARE strange people :) Andre

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> >JJ > > >Target 12 <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> >Maybe NH is way better, it's a shame they choose such a crap racing >series. >> > >> >> *yawn* >> >> >Well, I think you got the point that I do't like NASCRAP, but that's my >> >view. >> >> It certainly is...but it is also my view that you can take your view and >shove >> it. >> Racer X >> Veteran Sim Racer >> #4 Corvette C5-R in the GTIC >> #24 Monte Carlo in the DORL >> Victory Lane- >> http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/ >> >

On Sat, 12 Aug 2000 21:06:40 +0200, "Han Monsees" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >"mracer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> as an aged Black Angus Ribeye is to a plain McDonald's burger. >> >> It's really sad that such a piece of shite was ever released. >> >Thanks for the fine arguments we haven't heard before!

And thanks for your (not) so fine arguement which doesn't speak about the qualities of NASCAR Heat as a game, but rather,simply slanders NASCAR fans because YOU dont happen to appreciate that form of racing....very creative and constructive! >Maybe NH is way better, it's a shame they choose such a crap racing series. Again, this says nothing about the qualities of the GAME, rather it puts down all people who might actually LIKE NASCAR. Once again, very creative and constructive! >Maybe GP3 tends to be an little arcadish game simulating a racing series, >NH will be a realistic sim simulating an arcadish racing series. See above. >Be honest: you build some sort of racing chassis, you put in the biggest >low-tech engine you can get and than build a bodywork around it that make Low-tech or not, it's still an engine which puts out around 750HP...far more than most "raoadcars," and more than many "race" cars, too. >your think look just like a car that it isn't. Then you paint it in colours >that are so bright and that combine so badly that even the guys in Mir can >see it and are disgusted by it. Again, your personal opinion on the artistic talent of the people who design the REAL race car's paint scheme. This says ABSOULUTELY NOTHING about whether or not HASCAR Heat is a great game >Then your driver tries to get in. He has to climb through the windows, cause >they forgot the doors. I cannot imagine I ever saw another type of closed >car (roadcar or raceingcar) that had no doors Who gives a f#$k. If NASCAR race cars had doors, would it in any way change your opinion of NASCAR as a sport, or more importantly, would it change your opinion of NASCAR heat, the game? >Well, the driver is inside, the race starts. Then they are allowed to do >things that costed Schumi all his points in 1997. I like close racing, I >like a lot of overtaking (and therefore I like the Michigan oval), but it >has to be fair. Diving into gaps that are non-existant and driving others of >the road on a regular basis is certainly no my idea of racing. Rarely do real NASCAR drivers go for a gap that simply isn't there. I think you're confusing real life NASCAR racing for an N3 Talladega pick-up race. >Well, I think you got the point that I do't like NASCRAP, but that's my >view. However, I will try the NH-demo, but I think it will be hard since I >will have to imagine I am driving a Champcar all the time Yes, thank you for your oh-so constructive criticism of a game that you HAVEN'T EVEN PLAYED!!!!!! Thank you for doing nothing more than putting down everyone who happens to like NASCAR. >grtngs, >hgrm >

Were you beaten as a child? On Sat, 12 Aug 2000 21:06:40 +0200, "Han Monsees" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Thanks for the fine arguments we haven't heard before! > >Maybe NH is way better, it's a shame they choose such a crap racing series. > >Maybe GP3 tends to be an little arcadish game simulating a racing series, >NH will be a realistic sim simulating an arcadish racing series. > >Be honest: you build some sort of racing chassis, you put in the biggest >low-tech engine you can get and than build a bodywork around it that make >your think look just like a car that it isn't. Then you paint it in colours >that are so bright and that combine so badly that even the guys in Mir can >see it and are disgusted by it. > >Then your driver tries to get in. He has to climb through the windows, cause >they forgot the doors. I cannot imagine I ever saw another type of closed >car (roadcar or raceingcar) that had no doors > >Well, the driver is inside, the race starts. Then they are allowed to do >things that costed Schumi all his points in 1997. I like close racing, I >like a lot of overtaking (and therefore I like the Michigan oval), but it >has to be fair. Diving into gaps that are non-existant and driving others of >the road on a regular basis is certainly no my idea of racing. > >Well, I think you got the point that I do't like NASCRAP, but that's my >view. However, I will try the NH-demo, but I think it will be hard since I >will have to imagine I am driving a Champcar all the time > >grtngs, >hgrm >

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> >> > >> It's really sad that such a piece of shite was ever released. > >> > >Thanks for the fine arguments we haven't heard before! > > And thanks for your (not) so fine arguement which doesn't speak about > the qualities of NASCAR Heat as a game, but rather,simply slanders > NASCAR fans because YOU dont happen to appreciate that form of > racing....very creative and constructive! >

Ehhh. I never said I would commend to NASCRAP heat as a game. Then I first have to play at least the demo. Ian believe me, I will be able to objectively assess the game although I don't like NASCRAP. > >Maybe NH is way better, it's a shame they choose such a crap racingseries. > > > Again, this says nothing about the qualities of the GAME, rather it > puts down all people who might actually LIKE NASCAR. Once again, very > creative and constructive! >actually, between my (maybe slightly overdone) sarcasm, there are some real arguments why NASCRAP is not racing, but cheap entertainment (IMO)

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> >Maybe GP3 tends to be an little arcadish game simulating a racing series, > >NH will be a realistic sim simulating an arcadish racing series. > > > See above. > > >Be honest: you build some sort of racing chassis, you put in the biggest > >low-tech engine you can get and than build a bodywork around it that make > > Low-tech or not, it's still an engine which puts out around > 750HP...far more than most "raoadcars," and more than many "race" > cars, too.

So what? Big deal!. Just make the engine big enough and you'll have your 750 HP. Squeezing 750 to 800 HP out of an engine smaller than the average US-roadcar engine, that's totally something different! > > >your think look just like a car that it isn't. Then you paint it incolours > >that are so bright and that combine so badly that even the guys in Mircan > >see it and are disgusted by it. > > Again, your personal opinion on the artistic talent of the people who > design the REAL race car's paint scheme. This says ABSOULUTELY > NOTHING about whether or not HASCAR Heat is a great game >Again, I have ABSOLUTELY NEVER said I would say something about the qualities of NH as a GAME. > >Then your driver tries to get in. He has to climb through the windows,cause

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> >they forgot the doors. I cannot imagine I ever saw another type of closed > >car (roadcar or raceingcar) that had no doors > > Who gives a f#$k. If NASCAR race cars had doors, would it in any way > change your opinion of NASCAR as a sport, or more importantly, would > it change your opinion of NASCAR heat, the game? >

I would certainly take it a bit more seriously. But only a bit... > >Well, the driver is inside, the race starts. Then they are allowed to do > >things that costed Schumi all his points in 1997. I like close racing, I > >like a lot of overtaking (and therefore I like the Michigan oval), but it > >has to be fair. Diving into gaps that are non-existant and driving othersof > >the road on a regular basis is certainly no my idea of racing. > > Rarely do real NASCAR drivers go for a gap that simply isn't there. I > think you're confusing real life NASCAR racing for an N3 Talladega > pick-up race. >I have seen things on Eurosport NASCRAP-coverage (Yes, I have watched it. I even tried to enjoy it, I am NOT talking about things I don't know) that can only be described by "If you can't beat then, elimiate them" > >Well, I think you got the point that I do't like NASCRAP, but that's my > >view. However, I will try the NH-demo, but I think it will be hard sinceI

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> >will have to imagine I am driving a Champcar all the time > > > Yes, thank you for your oh-so constructive criticism of a game that > you HAVEN'T EVEN PLAYED!!!!!! Thank you for doing nothing more than > putting down everyone who happens to like NASCAR. >

actually, I only have criticised the setting of the game, which can IMO perfectly be criticised without playing it. And about those guys who like NASCRAP: that's their choice. I only point out that I don't like it and I don't like the fuss about another NASCRAP-game that is released. I simply search a way to express my frustration because Eurosport has scrapped CART in favour of more NASCRAP, that there are 4 or 5 recent NASCRAP-titles while there is no decent CART or IRL-game, not to mention real simms dealing with touringcars, lesser formulae of singelseaters (F3000, F3, FRenault, FFord, FAtlantic, Indy Light, FPA etc) > >grtngs, > >hgrm > > >

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <8n478f$ddq$[email hidden]>, "Han Monsees" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Be honest: you build some sort of racing chassis, you put in the biggest > >low-tech engine you can get and than build a bodywork around it that make > >your think look just like a car that it isn't. Then you paint it incolours > >that are so bright and that combine so badly that even the guys in Mircan > >see it and are disgusted by it. > > > And Champ cars or F1 cars have never had garish paint jobs? Okayyy...I't's not my best argument, but I think many people argee that cars should not be lightning pink or green.I agree that there are other cars with hideous colour schemes (the GT-Marcos isn't very pretyy either and Benneton have been doning thing they shouldn't, either) > > >Then your driver tries to get in. He has to climb through the windows,cause > >they forgot the doors. I cannot imagine I ever saw another type of closed > >car (roadcar or raceingcar) that had no doors > That's just a stupid argument. Who cares? IMO, there are two kinds of cars. Open cars, designed for racing (either open wheeled or close-wheeled) These cars are racing cars and not ment for road-use. These cars are built from the early 20th century to show what technical capacities a carmanufacturer has. And there are closed cars, designed to be high-end road cars and raced to show people that a car that is almost identical to similar to the car the can buy in the shop can win races en outclass the oposition. For instance the GT-cars or Supertourers. NASCRAP-cars are IMO just a stupid mixtrure. The look like the cars that one can buy in the shop but have absolutely nothing to do with it (which can for instance be seen at the doors) . They have nothing to do with promoting a product, it just commercialism. My argument involves a bit of emotion; I just feel that NASCRAP is only commercial (and F1 is ballancing on the edge and will soon fall over, too I am afraid). It has little to do with the old spirit of racing (which is exctinting anyway) > > > > >Well, the driver is inside, the race starts. Then they are allowed to do > >things that costed Schumi all his points in 1997. I like close racing, I > >like a lot of overtaking (and therefore I like the Michigan oval), but it > >has to be fair. Diving into gaps that are non-existant and driving othersof > >the road on a regular basis is certainly no my idea of racing. > > Don't cars fight for position in every race series(except drag racing)?That > means that occasionally two cars go for the same spot of track. Stuffhappens. > Have you ever watched the touring cars? You think NASCAR has rough > drivers...? >I have seen things at Eurosport coverages which just has nothing to do with sportsmanship. And it isn't sanctionned by the steward either.

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> Eldred > -- > Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPL hcp. +51.95 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"Skotty Flynn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Were you beaten as a child? No, but I would rather be beaten that be driven off the road by a guy driving a NASCRAP-car thinking he owns the track (-:

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> > > On Sat, 12 Aug 2000 21:06:40 +0200, "Han Monsees" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Thanks for the fine arguments we haven't heard before! > > > >Maybe NH is way better, it's a shame they choose such a crap racing

series.

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> > > >Maybe GP3 tends to be an little arcadish game simulating a racing series, > >NH will be a realistic sim simulating an arcadish racing series. > > > >Be honest: you build some sort of racing chassis, you put in the biggest > >low-tech engine you can get and than build a bodywork around it that make > >your think look just like a car that it isn't. Then you paint it in

colours > >that are so bright and that combine so badly that even the guys in Mircan > >see it and are disgusted by it. > > > >Then your driver tries to get in. He has to climb through the windows,cause

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> >they forgot the doors. I cannot imagine I ever saw another type of closed > >car (roadcar or raceingcar) that had no doors > > > >Well, the driver is inside, the race starts. Then they are allowed to do > >things that costed Schumi all his points in 1997. I like close racing, I > >like a lot of overtaking (and therefore I like the Michigan oval), but it > >has to be fair. Diving into gaps that are non-existant and driving others

of > >the road on a regular basis is certainly no my idea of racing. > > > >Well, I think you got the point that I do't like NASCRAP, but that's my > >view. However, I will try the NH-demo, but I think it will be hard sinceI > >will have to imagine I am driving a Champcar all the time > > > >grtngs, > >hgrm > > >

"Han Monsees" <[email hidden]> wrote > actually, I only have criticised the setting of the game, which can IMO > perfectly be criticised without playing it. > And about those guys who like NASCRAP: that's their choice. I only pointout > that I don't like it and I don't like the fuss about another NASCRAP-game > that is released. Hello, DGF. -- eh! -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

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>actually, I only have criticised the setting of the game, which can IMO >perfectly be criticised without playing it. >And about those guys who like NASCRAP: that's their choice. I only point out >that I don't like it and I don't like the fuss about another NASCRAP-game >that is released. I simply search a way to express my frustration because >Eurosport has scrapped CART in favour of more NASCRAP, that there are 4 or 5 >recent NASCRAP-titles while there is no decent CART or IRL-game, not to >mention real simms dealing with touringcars, lesser formulae of >singelseaters (F3000, F3, FRenault, FFord, FAtlantic, Indy Light, FPA etc)

So if NASCAR isn't your thing, why even waste time posting this? Ok, you don't like NASCAR, you won't be buying any NASCAR games. Same with everyone else who doesn't like NASCAR, they won't be buying any NASCAR related games, either. So why bother to tell everyone else this. I'm (pretty) sure that most people could care less that you don't like NASCAR. With your not so polite slams against NASCAR, I doubt you're going to sway people who like NASCAR to your way of thinking. And as far as speaking to others who hate NASCAR, you're just preaching to the converted. Either way, you're post is in no way constructive and is only there to get a rise out of NASCAR fans. If you really hate NASCAR, why don't you go make your feelings known in R.A.S.N. or R.A.S.F1. Oh, and another thing. Have you ever watched any of the BTCC. You talk about NASCAR drivers going for gaps that appear to be non-existant. In the BTCC, most guys don't even wait for a gap, they just make their own....usually by pushing the driver ahead of them out of the way.

"Intimidator" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > >actually, I only have criticised the setting of the game, which can IMO > >perfectly be criticised without playing it. > >And about those guys who like NASCRAP: that's their choice. I only pointout > >that I don't like it and I don't like the fuss about another NASCRAP-game > >that is released. I simply search a way to express my frustration because > >Eurosport has scrapped CART in favour of more NASCRAP, that there are 4or 5 > >recent NASCRAP-titles while there is no decent CART or IRL-game, not to > >mention real simms dealing with touringcars, lesser formulae of > >singelseaters (F3000, F3, FRenault, FFord, FAtlantic, Indy Light, FPAetc)

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> > > So if NASCAR isn't your thing, why even waste time posting this? Ok, > you don't like NASCAR, you won't be buying any NASCAR games. Same > with everyone else who doesn't like NASCAR, they won't be buying any > NASCAR related games, either. So why bother to tell everyone else > this. I'm (pretty) sure that most people could care less that you > don't like NASCAR. With your not so polite slams against NASCAR, I > doubt you're going to sway people who like NASCAR to your way of > thinking. And as far as speaking to others who hate NASCAR, you're > just preaching to the converted. Either way, you're post is in no way > constructive and is only there to get a rise out of NASCAR fans.

Why shouldn't I have an opinion about thinks I don't like, especially when these thinks threaten the things I do like. And about that politeness: 1) I haven't insulted anyone personally, but as a response I have been several times and 2) if I am a bit more polite, my post simply is ignored. As you (could) have noticed, I have gone back to more conventional ways of debating after the discussion was on its way. > > If you really hate NASCAR, why don't you go make your feelings known > in R.A.S.N. or R.A.S.F1. Remember, I replied to a message about a nascar game with in the back of my mind that the more nascar games are released and the more the (in general racing-ignorant) public starts to love nascar, the less attentions is played to the serious racing series. > > Oh, and another thing. Have you ever watched any of the BTCC. You > talk about NASCAR drivers going for gaps that appear to be > non-existant. In the BTCC, most guys don't even wait for a gap, they > just make their own....usually by pushing the driver ahead of them out > of the way. I am not able to follow the BTCC closely (we only have BBC here in Holland), but I guess it is about the same as in the DTCC, its Dutch equivalent. There are indeed stupid moves, but drivers get pubished for them. And in the new DTM, I see quite clean racing.

Han Monsees wrote:

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> > "Skotty Flynn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Were you beaten as a child? > > No, but I would rather be beaten that be driven off the road by a guy > driving a NASCRAP-car thinking he owns the track (-:

That can be arranged... <g>

"Han Monsees" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8n6b74$75h$[email hidden]... >Remember, I replied to a message about a nascar game with in the back of my >mind that the more nascar games are released and the more the (in general >racing-ignorant) public starts to love nascar, the less attentions is played >to the serious racing series. I guess everyone is entitled to there opinion. I think it's basically what you grow up with. To me F1 is about as boring as it gets, but yet I watch it. IRL falls second in that category. Rarely do I ever miss any type of Nascar race. Michael K. Grandy Sr Proud Member of Precision Racing Professional Internet Race Team NOTICE TO BULK E-MAILERS: Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, p.227, any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to [email hidden] is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of Five-Hundred Dollars U.S. E-Mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.

Han, Han Monsees wrote:

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> actually, I only have criticised the setting of the game, which can IMO > perfectly be criticised without playing it. > And about those guys who like NASCRAP: that's their choice. I only point out > that I don't like it and I don't like the fuss about another NASCRAP-game > that is released. I simply search a way to express my frustration because > Eurosport has scrapped CART in favour of more NASCRAP, that there are 4 or 5 > recent NASCRAP-titles while there is no decent CART or IRL-game, not to > mention real simms dealing with touringcars, lesser formulae of > singelseaters (F3000, F3, FRenault, FFord, FAtlantic, Indy Light, FPA etc)

Let me get this straight. You look for threads on new Nascar Racing games so you can make generalized derogatory comments on NASCAR and it's fans because game developers aren't making enough good simulations of racing series you like and you're losing TV coverage of CART due to Eurosport's decision making? And how do you think your posts on RAS will help your cause? I hope your profession doesn't require the skill of influencing people. Dave Ericson "MomoBoy" JDB Racing

"David R. Ericson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Han, > > Han Monsees wrote: > > actually, I only have criticised the setting of the game, which can IMO > > perfectly be criticised without playing it. > > And about those guys who like NASCRAP: that's their choice. I only pointout > > that I don't like it and I don't like the fuss about anotherNASCRAP-game > > that is released. I simply search a way to express my frustrationbecause > > Eurosport has scrapped CART in favour of more NASCRAP, that there are 4or 5 > > recent NASCRAP-titles while there is no decent CART or IRL-game, not to > > mention real simms dealing with touringcars, lesser formulae of > > singelseaters (F3000, F3, FRenault, FFord, FAtlantic, Indy Light, FPAetc) > > Let me get this straight. You look for threads on new Nascar Racing No, I only reacted on someone criticising GP3 in a much ruder manner and with far less (actually no) argumentation. Just look at the first message in this thread. games so > you can make generalized derogatory comments on NASCAR I know what I'm talking about. A long time ago I was blank about NASCAR and when I saw it for the first time, I gave it a chance and I formed an opinion, which can be read in this thread > and it's fans because I never criticised or insulted people, let alone the fans. > game developers aren't making enough good simulations of racing series youlike > and you're losing TV coverage of CART due to Eurosport's decision making? Just a point that came later. I think it's sad that media and game developers play so much attention to something that is IMO mass-amusement rather than true sports. But it's logical, mass-amusement means big $$$. And that's the only thing that counds in this world > And > how do you think your posts on RAS will help your cause? Gamedevelopers are reading this group, too >I hope your > profession doesn't require the skill of influencing people. In the two years that I have been a teacher of science so far, I have (among others) learned two things: 1) In order to be heard and understood, you have to repeat, have to repeat, have to repeat 2) If you want to make something clear, make it clear and don't try to be to subtle. After some posts to this group about various subject, it became clear to me that you have to shout quite hard to get a discussion started, which I did. However, I made one mistake: I didn't foresee that such an attitude starts a discussion about the proces (the way I should (not) start a discussion) rather than the subject. I even received some quite rude, personal remarks. I have gone somewhat lower than my normal level (for the reasons explained), but I have not gone and will not go that low. grtngs, hgrm > > Dave Ericson > "MomoBoy" > JDB Racing

On Mon, 14 Aug 2000 23:25:32 +0200, "Han Monsees" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >"David R. Ericson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> Han, >> >> Han Monsees wrote: >> > actually, I only have criticised the setting of the game, which can IMO >> > perfectly be criticised without playing it. >> > And about those guys who like NASCRAP: that's their choice. I only point >out >> > that I don't like it and I don't like the fuss about another >NASCRAP-game >> > that is released. I simply search a way to express my frustration >because >> > Eurosport has scrapped CART in favour of more NASCRAP, that there are 4 >or 5 >> > recent NASCRAP-titles while there is no decent CART or IRL-game, not to >> > mention real simms dealing with touringcars, lesser formulae of >> > singelseaters (F3000, F3, FRenault, FFord, FAtlantic, Indy Light, FPA >etc) >> >> Let me get this straight. You look for threads on new Nascar Racing > >No, I only reacted on someone criticising GP3 in a much ruder manner and >with far less (actually no) argumentation. Just look at the first message in >this thread. > >games so >> you can make generalized derogatory comments on NASCAR > >I know what I'm talking about. A long time ago I was blank about NASCAR and >when I saw it for the first time, I gave it a chance and I formed an >opinion, which can be read in this thread > >> and it's fans because > >I never criticised or insulted people, let alone the fans.

You don't criticize the fans directly, but when you make comments such as NASCAR being "NASCRAP," people who like NASCAR (like me) tend to get offended. Maybe you should be a little more tactful in the future.

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>> game developers aren't making enough good simulations of racing series you >like >> and you're losing TV coverage of CART due to Eurosport's decision making? > >Just a point that came later. I think it's sad that media and game >developers play so much attention to something that is IMO mass-amusement >rather than true sports. But it's logical, mass-amusement means big $$$. And >that's the only thing that counds in this world

NASCAR is not a true sport IN YOUR OPINION. Just because YOU say NASCAR isn't a sport doesn't make it so. Maybe in the majority of people's minds it IS a sport, and that is part of the reason why Eurosport is expanding it's NASCAR coverage at the expense of CART (and maybe others - I'm not down with Eurosports lineup). And getting away from the arguement of whether or not it is a sport, maybe the majority of people find it more entertaining, which could be another reason for increased coverage. $$$$ is important ascpect of it, but NASCAR commands big dollars for a reason....

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>> And >> how do you think your posts on RAS will help your cause? > >Gamedevelopers are reading this group, too > >>I hope your >> profession doesn't require the skill of influencing people. > >In the two years that I have been a teacher of science so far, I have (among >others) learned two things: > >1) In order to be heard and understood, you have to repeat, have to repeat, >have to repeat >2) If you want to make something clear, make it clear and don't try to be to >subtle. > >After some posts to this group about various subject, it became clear to me >that you have to shout quite hard to get a discussion started, which I did. >However, I made one mistake: I didn't foresee that such an attitude starts a >discussion about the proces (the way I should (not) start a discussion) >rather than the subject. I even received some quite rude, personal remarks. >I have gone somewhat lower than my normal level (for the reasons explained), >but I have not gone and will not go that low. > >grtngs, >hgrm > >> >> Dave Ericson >> "MomoBoy" >> JDB Racing >

On Mon, 14 Aug 2000 23:25:32 +0200, "Han Monsees" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >"David R. Ericson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> Han, >> >> Han Monsees wrote: >> > actually, I only have criticised the setting of the game, which can IMO >> > perfectly be criticised without playing it. >> > And about those guys who like NASCRAP: that's their choice. I only point >out >> > that I don't like it and I don't like the fuss about another >NASCRAP-game >> > that is released. I simply search a way to express my frustration >because >> > Eurosport has scrapped CART in favour of more NASCRAP, that there are 4 >or 5 >> > recent NASCRAP-titles while there is no decent CART or IRL-game, not to >> > mention real simms dealing with touringcars, lesser formulae of >> > singelseaters (F3000, F3, FRenault, FFord, FAtlantic, Indy Light, FPA >etc) >> >> Let me get this straight. You look for threads on new Nascar Racing > >No, I only reacted on someone criticising GP3 in a much ruder manner and >with far less (actually no) argumentation. Just look at the first message in >this thread. > >games so >> you can make generalized derogatory comments on NASCAR > >I know what I'm talking about. A long time ago I was blank about NASCAR and >when I saw it for the first time, I gave it a chance and I formed an >opinion, which can be read in this thread > >> and it's fans because > >I never criticised or insulted people, let alone the fans.

You don't criticize the fans directly, but when you make comments such as NASCAR being "NASCRAP," people who like NASCAR (like me) tend to get offended. Maybe you should be a little more tactful in the future.

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>> game developers aren't making enough good simulations of racing series you >like >> and you're losing TV coverage of CART due to Eurosport's decision making? > >Just a point that came later. I think it's sad that media and game >developers play so much attention to something that is IMO mass-amusement >rather than true sports. But it's logical, mass-amusement means big $$$. And >that's the only thing that counds in this world

NASCAR is not a true sport IN YOUR OPINION. Just because YOU say NASCAR isn't a sport doesn't make it so. Maybe in the majority of people's minds it IS a sport, and that is part of the reason why Eurosport is expanding it's NASCAR coverage at the expense of CART (and maybe others - I'm not down with Eurosport's lineup). And getting away from the arguement of whether or not it is a sport, maybe the majority of people find it more entertaining, which could be another reason for increased coverage.

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>> And >> how do you think your posts on RAS will help your cause? > >Gamedevelopers are reading this group, too > >>I hope your >> profession doesn't require the skill of influencing people. > >In the two years that I have been a teacher of science so far, I have (among >others) learned two things: > >1) In order to be heard and understood, you have to repeat, have to repeat, >have to repeat >2) If you want to make something clear, make it clear and don't try to be to >subtle. > >After some posts to this group about various subject, it became clear to me >that you have to shout quite hard to get a discussion started, which I did. >However, I made one mistake: I didn't foresee that such an attitude starts a >discussion about the proces (the way I should (not) start a discussion) >rather than the subject. I even received some quite rude, personal remarks. >I have gone somewhat lower than my normal level (for the reasons explained), >but I have not gone and will not go that low. > > >grtngs, >hgrm > >> >> Dave Ericson >> "MomoBoy" >> JDB Racing >

In article <8nba89$k19$[email hidden]>, "Han Monsees" <[email hidden]> writes: >That means that you should respect my opinion although there might be little >people thinking the same way and it also means that television networks and >game publishers should not only show what the mass wants to see, but also >keep an eye on things that might be less popular. > I'd think that most of here can RESPECT your opinion, and defend your right to say it. Just understand some may be pissed at HOW you say it...<G> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +51.31 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Han wrote this: >I think it's sad that media and game developers play so much >attention to something that is IMO mass-amusement rather than >true sports. And this whole thread just reminded me of the Conseco TV ad. "Go ahead. We can't hear you." (The ad softened my view of the #14 racing team considerably.) -Laurens de Jong, The Netherlands. ----------------------------------------------------------- Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

> >I never criticised or insulted people, let alone the fans. > > You don't criticize the fans directly, but when you make comments such > as NASCAR being "NASCRAP," people who like NASCAR (like me) tend to > get offended. Maybe you should be a little more tactful in the > future. OK, then I'm sorry about that. But I think it's a bit over-sensitive to be upset with that IMO > > >> game developers aren't making enough good simulations of racing seriesyou > >like > >> and you're losing TV coverage of CART due to Eurosport's decisionmaking? > > > >Just a point that came later. I think it's sad that media and game > >developers play so much attention to something that is IMO mass-amusement > >rather than true sports. But it's logical, mass-amusement means big $$$.And

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> >that's the only thing that counds in this world > > NASCAR is not a true sport IN YOUR OPINION. Just because YOU say > NASCAR isn't a sport doesn't make it so. Maybe in the majority of > people's minds it IS a sport, and that is part of the reason why > Eurosport is expanding it's NASCAR coverage at the expense of CART > (and maybe others - I'm not down with Eurosport's lineup). And > getting away from the arguement of whether or not it is a sport, maybe > the majority of people find it more entertaining, which could be > another reason for increased coverage.

If I read that I think you don't really know what democraty is about. It's not about doning what the majority wants, or showing what the majority wants. It is about taking into account the opinions and wants of all people en minorities. That means that you should respect my opinion although there might be little people thinking the same way and it also means that television networks and game publishers should not only show what the mass wants to see, but also keep an eye on things that might be less popular.

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> > >> And > >> how do you think your posts on RAS will help your cause? > > > >Gamedevelopers are reading this group, too > > > >>I hope your > >> profession doesn't require the skill of influencing people. > > > >In the two years that I have been a teacher of science so far, I have

(among > >others) learned two things: > > > >1) In order to be heard and understood, you have to repeat, have torepeat, > >have to repeat > >2) If you want to make something clear, make it clear and don't try to beto > >subtle. > > > >After some posts to this group about various subject, it became clear tome > >that you have to shout quite hard to get a discussion started, which Idid. > >However, I made one mistake: I didn't foresee that such an attitudestarts a > >discussion about the proces (the way I should (not) start a discussion) > >rather than the subject. I even received some quite rude, personalremarks. > >I have gone somewhat lower than my normal level (for the reasonsexplained),

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> >but I have not gone and will not go that low. > > > > > >grtngs, > >hgrm > > > >> > >> Dave Ericson > >> "MomoBoy" > >> JDB Racing > > >

Han Monsees wrote:

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> > "David R. Ericson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Han, > > > > Han Monsees wrote: > > > actually, I only have criticised the setting of the game, which can IMO > > > perfectly be criticised without playing it. > > > And about those guys who like NASCRAP: that's their choice. I only point > out > > > that I don't like it and I don't like the fuss about another > NASCRAP-game > > > that is released. I simply search a way to express my frustration > because > > > Eurosport has scrapped CART in favour of more NASCRAP, that there are 4 > or 5 > > > recent NASCRAP-titles while there is no decent CART or IRL-game, not to > > > mention real simms dealing with touringcars, lesser formulae of > > > singelseaters (F3000, F3, FRenault, FFord, FAtlantic, Indy Light, FPA > etc) > > > > Let me get this straight. You look for threads on new Nascar Racing > > No, I only reacted on someone criticising GP3 in a much ruder manner and > with far less (actually no) argumentation. Just look at the first message in > this thread.

Right... Mracer criticized GP3, the game/sim by Mr. Crammond. He didn't criticize any racing series in his post. YOU are the one who turned this thread upside down and decided to criticize the NASCAR series because you aren't getting your way. So in reality you did pick this thread in order to criticize NASCAR, even though it was a game vs. game thread.

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> > games so > > you can make generalized derogatory comments on NASCAR > > I know what I'm talking about. A long time ago I was blank about NASCAR and > when I saw it for the first time, I gave it a chance and I formed an > opinion, which can be read in this thread

You have not been "stating" your opinion. When you say NASCAR is a crap racing series without pre/post-fixing it with "in my opinion" then you are merely insulting the series, it's fans, and your intelligence. > > > and it's fans because > > I never criticised or insulted people, let alone the fans. <see above>

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> > > game developers aren't making enough good simulations of racing series you > like > > and you're losing TV coverage of CART due to Eurosport's decision making? > > Just a point that came later. I think it's sad that media and game > developers play so much attention to something that is IMO mass-amusement > rather than true sports. But it's logical, mass-amusement means big $$$. And > that's the only thing that counds in this world > > > And > > how do you think your posts on RAS will help your cause? > > Gamedevelopers are reading this group, too

Do you really think a game developer will take posts like yours into consideration? Bashing a series in a public forum would hardly get my attention, as a developer, unless it was a serious uprising by many people. You'd be better served to contact developers directly to make your concerns heard. Your current tactics will do little to help your cause, IMHO.

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> > >I hope your > > profession doesn't require the skill of influencing people. > > In the two years that I have been a teacher of science so far, I have (among > others) learned two things: > > 1) In order to be heard and understood, you have to repeat, have to repeat, > have to repeat > 2) If you want to make something clear, make it clear and don't try to be to > subtle.

I agree... but insulting a series and it's fans is definitely not appropriate.

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> > After some posts to this group about various subject, it became clear to me > that you have to shout quite hard to get a discussion started, which I did. > However, I made one mistake: I didn't foresee that such an attitude starts a > discussion about the proces (the way I should (not) start a discussion) > rather than the subject. I even received some quite rude, personal remarks. > I have gone somewhat lower than my normal level (for the reasons explained), > but I have not gone and will not go that low.

Sticking to my theme here... had you not been so insulting and "matter of fact", and just stated your opinion, then you may have garnered a better reaction which could have resulted in an actual discussion. Dave

> > I know what I'm talking about. A long time ago I was blank about NASCARand > > when I saw it for the first time, I gave it a chance and I formed an > > opinion, which can be read in this thread > > You have not been "stating" your opinion. When you say NASCAR is a crapracing > series without pre/post-fixing it with "in my opinion" then you are merely > insulting the series, it's fans, and your intelligence. >"Well, I think you got the point that I do't like NASCRAP, but that's my view. However, I will try the NH-demo, but I think it will be hard since I will have to imagine I am driving a Champcar all the time" This was the last paragraph of my original text. So, I did add an IMO, in other words however.

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> > > > > and it's fans because > > > > I never criticised or insulted people, let alone the fans. > > <see above> > > > > > > game developers aren't making enough good simulations of racing series

you > > like > > > and you're losing TV coverage of CART due to Eurosport's decisionmaking? > > > > Just a point that came later. I think it's sad that media and game > > developers play so much attention to something that is IMOmass-amusement > > rather than true sports. But it's logical, mass-amusement means big $$$.And

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> > that's the only thing that counds in this world > > > > > And > > > how do you think your posts on RAS will help your cause? > > > > Gamedevelopers are reading this group, too > > Do you really think a game developer will take posts like yours into > consideration? Bashing a series in a public forum would hardly get my > attention, as a developer, unless it was a serious uprising by many

people. > You'd be better served to contact developers directly to make yourconcerns > heard. Your current tactics will do little to help your cause, IMHO. > Maybe it will, maybe it won't. If there would be a real discussion and many people would say "you're right, there are plenty of nascar games, we want something about ........", it would have made a chance > > > > >I hope your > > > profession doesn't require the skill of influencing people. > > > > In the two years that I have been a teacher of science so far, I have(among > > others) learned two things: > > > > 1) In order to be heard and understood, you have to repeat, have torepeat, > > have to repeat > > 2) If you want to make something clear, make it clear and don't try tobe to > > subtle. > > I agree... but insulting a series and it's fans is definitely notappropriate. What do you mean insulting? Would my post have been better if only I hadn't used "NASCRAP"?? Or do you mean that my arguments weren't subtle enough? Down to the core, I believe my arguments (except that one about liveries, which was kind of a joke) are good arguments. > > > > > After some posts to this group about various subject, it became clear tome > > that you have to shout quite hard to get a discussion started, which Idid. > > However, I made one mistake: I didn't foresee that such an attitudestarts a > > discussion about the proces (the way I should (not) start a discussion) > > rather than the subject. I even received some quite rude, personalremarks. > > I have gone somewhat lower than my normal level (for the reasonsexplained), > > but I have not gone and will not go that low. > > Sticking to my theme here... had you not been so insulting and "matter of > fact", and just stated your opinion, then you may have garnered a better > reaction which could have resulted in an actual discussion. have done that before, have received zero reaction. That's why I tried this (I'm an EXPERIMENTAL physicist....). At least I know it doesn't work either. grtng's, hrgm > > Dave

On Tue, 15 Aug 2000 13:40:42 +0200, "Han Monsees" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>> >I never criticised or insulted people, let alone the fans. >> >> You don't criticize the fans directly, but when you make comments such >> as NASCAR being "NASCRAP," people who like NASCAR (like me) tend to >> get offended. Maybe you should be a little more tactful in the >> future. > >OK, then I'm sorry about that. But I think it's a bit over-sensitive to be >upset with that IMO

No, I didn't have to get upset, it's a minor thing to be sure. It just bugs me when people have to resort to name calling and slandering to get their point across.

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>> >> >> game developers aren't making enough good simulations of racing series >you >> >like >> >> and you're losing TV coverage of CART due to Eurosport's decision >making? >> > >> >Just a point that came later. I think it's sad that media and game >> >developers play so much attention to something that is IMO mass-amusement >> >rather than true sports. But it's logical, mass-amusement means big $$$. >And >> >that's the only thing that counds in this world >> >> NASCAR is not a true sport IN YOUR OPINION. Just because YOU say >> NASCAR isn't a sport doesn't make it so. Maybe in the majority of >> people's minds it IS a sport, and that is part of the reason why >> Eurosport is expanding it's NASCAR coverage at the expense of CART >> (and maybe others - I'm not down with Eurosport's lineup). And >> getting away from the arguement of whether or not it is a sport, maybe >> the majority of people find it more entertaining, which could be >> another reason for increased coverage. > >If I read that I think you don't really know what democraty is about. It's >not about doning what the majority wants, or showing what the majority >wants. It is about taking into account the opinions and wants of all people >en minorities. > >That means that you should respect my opinion although there might be little >people thinking the same way and it also means that television networks and >game publishers should not only show what the mass wants to see, but also >keep an eye on things that might be less popular.

I know exactly what a democracy is....I'm living in Canada, which is a democracy (although that's open to debate). I'm just giving you some reasons as to why NASCAR is getting more exposure. And while the minority is taken into account in a democracy, in talking about the lack of NASCAR games and too much NASCAR on T.V., you're talking more about economics, and as far as economics go, it IS majority rules. Software companies are going to make titles based more or less on how much money they can make. With the popularity of NASCAR, it's easy money for software companies, so more NASCAR games should be expected. I'm not saying it's wrong or right, it's just the way it is. And as far as television goes, networks are going to decide their programming based on ratings, and what sort of advertising revenue they can attract. If NASCAR fits the bill, then they will show NASCAR, and keep showing NASCAR until no one is watching and no one is paying for commercials during NASCAR races.

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>> >> >> And >> >> how do you think your posts on RAS will help your cause? >> > >> >Gamedevelopers are reading this group, too >> > >> >>I hope your >> >> profession doesn't require the skill of influencing people. >> > >> >In the two years that I have been a teacher of science so far, I have >(among >> >others) learned two things: >> > >> >1) In order to be heard and understood, you have to repeat, have to >repeat, >> >have to repeat >> >2) If you want to make something clear, make it clear and don't try to be >to >> >subtle. >> > >> >After some posts to this group about various subject, it became clear to >me >> >that you have to shout quite hard to get a discussion started, which I >did. >> >However, I made one mistake: I didn't foresee that such an attitude >starts a >> >discussion about the proces (the way I should (not) start a discussion) >> >rather than the subject. I even received some quite rude, personal >remarks. >> >I have gone somewhat lower than my normal level (for the reasons >explained), >> >but I have not gone and will not go that low. >> > >> > >> >grtngs, >> >hgrm >> > >> >> >> >> Dave Ericson >> >> "MomoBoy" >> >> JDB Racing >> > >> >

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> > >> >I never criticised or insulted people, let alone the fans. > >> > >> You don't criticize the fans directly, but when you make comments such > >> as NASCAR being "NASCRAP," people who like NASCAR (like me) tend to > >> get offended. Maybe you should be a little more tactful in the > >> future. > > > >OK, then I'm sorry about that. But I think it's a bit over-sensitive to

be > >upset with that IMO > > No, I didn't have to get upset, it's a minor thing to be sure. It > just bugs me when people have to resort to name calling and slandering > to get their point across. It was just to easy to make that pun. > > >> > >> >> game developers aren't making enough good simulations of racingseries

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> >you > >> >like > >> >> and you're losing TV coverage of CART due to Eurosport's decision > >making? > >> > > >> >Just a point that came later. I think it's sad that media and game > >> >developers play so much attention to something that is IMO

mass-amusement > >> >rather than true sports. But it's logical, mass-amusement means big$$$.

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> >And > >> >that's the only thing that counds in this world > >> > >> NASCAR is not a true sport IN YOUR OPINION. Just because YOU say > >> NASCAR isn't a sport doesn't make it so. Maybe in the majority of > >> people's minds it IS a sport, and that is part of the reason why > >> Eurosport is expanding it's NASCAR coverage at the expense of CART > >> (and maybe others - I'm not down with Eurosport's lineup). And > >> getting away from the arguement of whether or not it is a sport, maybe > >> the majority of people find it more entertaining, which could be > >> another reason for increased coverage. > > > >If I read that I think you don't really know what democraty is about.

It's > >not about doning what the majority wants, or showing what the majority > >wants. It is about taking into account the opinions and wants of allpeople > >en minorities. > > > >That means that you should respect my opinion although there might belittle > >people thinking the same way and it also means that television networksand

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> >game publishers should not only show what the mass wants to see, but also > >keep an eye on things that might be less popular. > > I know exactly what a democracy is....I'm living in Canada, which is a > democracy (although that's open to debate). I'm just giving you some > reasons as to why NASCAR is getting more exposure. And while the > minority is taken into account in a democracy, in talking about the > lack of NASCAR games and too much NASCAR on T.V., you're talking more > about economics, and as far as economics go, it IS majority rules.

I could start a discussion right now about economics ruling the world. Saw some item about wealt in the USA. 1% of the people possessing 40% of the goods. But this is not the appropriate newsgroup. > Software companies are going to make titles based more or less on how > much money they can make. With the popularity of NASCAR, it's easy > money for software companies, so more NASCAR games should be expected. > I'm not saying it's wrong or right, it's just the way it is. And as > far as television goes, networks are going to decide their programming > based on ratings Here in Holland (and in the rest of Europe), we have "pubic television", which is government-sponsored TV that should be able to decide what is is broadcasting not only on ratings. Therefore, it takes into account the wants of minorities. However, the public channels are more and more pushed aside by the commercial networks. > ,and what sort of advertising revenue they can > attract. If NASCAR fits the bill, then they will show NASCAR, and > keep showing NASCAR until no one is watching and no one is paying for > commercials during NASCAR races. >About commercials during races, I heard a TV-commentator say that yellow-flags can be 'requested' by the television-people if the want to broadcast commercials. Is that true?? grtngs, hgrm

On Tue, 15 Aug 2000 19:31:56 +0200, "Han Monsees" <[email hidden]> wrote: ... >Here in Holland (and in the rest of Europe), we have "pubic television", Before US citizens start migrating, we also have pubLic television ;-) Ruud van Gaal, GPL Rank +53.53 MarketGraph / MachTech: http://www.marketgraph.nl Pencil art: http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery

>I mean, you call moving >over on the last lap of a race to let your teammate win racing? What about throwing out yellows for non-existent debris on the last lap of the Daytona 500 just because it's about time Dale won :-) -- Cheers! Graeme Nash

On Sat, 12 Aug 2000 23:27:00 GMT, Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>On Sat, 12 Aug 2000 19:21:21 -0400, "J. Janasov" ><[email hidden]> wrote: > >>Let me guess...you don't like racing so close you that you might actually >>touch another car...lol. It's a ton of fun, give it a chance and you'll be >>hooked. All fun to the wind, Nascar racing online in any form is a blast! >>Get some squirrel juice in your blood and come on boy!! > >What the hell is squirrel juice?? >Nascar fans ARE strange people :) > >Andre >

I think it's kinda like snake oil =) Todd

On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 12:27:49 +0200, "Han Monsees" <[email hidden]> wrote: >actually, I only have criticised the setting of the game, which can IMO >perfectly be criticised without playing it. >And about those guys who like NASCRAP: that's their choice. I only point out >that I don't like it and I don't like the fuss about another NASCRAP-game >that is released. Well, too bad dude. I sat here and read all the posts about GP3, but did I chime in about how I think F1 is a joke? I mean, you call moving over on the last lap of a race to let your teammate win racing? I wish someone would come out with a CART/IRL sim too, but bashing another form of auto racing ain't gonna solve anything. Todd I simply search a way to express my frustration because

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>Eurosport has scrapped CART in favour of more NASCRAP, that there are 4 or 5 >recent NASCRAP-titles while there is no decent CART or IRL-game, not to >mention real simms dealing with touringcars, lesser formulae of >singelseaters (F3000, F3, FRenault, FFord, FAtlantic, Indy Light, FPA etc) > > >> >grtngs, >> >hgrm >> > >> >

>Uh, didn't somebody crash...? Maybe, but I'm sure I heard something like that. Or was it that they allowed Petty a bit more power for his 4th July win in front of the president etc etc :-) -- Cheers! Graeme Nash

In article <[email hidden]>, Graeme Nash <[email hidden]> writes: >>I mean, you call moving >>over on the last lap of a race to let your teammate win racing? > >What about throwing out yellows for non-existent debris on the last lap >of the Daytona 500 just because it's about time Dale won :-) > Uh, didn't somebody crash...? Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +51.31 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

That's just what pisses me off about NASCAR and CART, slightest incident and it's a full course yellow. F1 clear all but the worst accidents or incidents with a local yellow. (except for digruntled Mercedes employees walking on the track ;) ) -- Ian P <email invalid due to spam> EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, Graeme Nash > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >>I mean, you call moving > >>over on the last lap of a race to let your teammate win racing? > > > >What about throwing out yellows for non-existent debris on the last lap > >of the Daytona 500 just because it's about time Dale won :-) > > > > Uh, didn't somebody crash...? > > Eldred > -- > Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPL hcp. +51.31 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Thu, 17 Aug 2000 14:03:16 -0500, rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>On Thu, 17 Aug 2000 16:08:17 +0100, "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote: > >>That's just what pisses me off about NASCAR and CART, slightest incident and >>it's a full course yellow. F1 clear all but the worst accidents or incidents >>with a local yellow. (except for digruntled Mercedes employees walking on >>the track ;) ) > >Except that in Nascar or CART, when racing on ovals, the entire 40+ car >field will be back at the incident every 30-60 seconds.. > >That would be a recipe for disaster, IMO. > >The yellow flag rule works fine for Nascar and CART. It also provides >for the closest, most exciting racing of any series on earth.

Also they dont have cranes to lift cars off the track. Just tow trucks which need to drive onto the track to remove them. :)

For sure, I'm not denying that it's close racing, but to me it seems artificially close. On the short ovals (or even the longer ones) I can see your point about the cars passing the scene regularly (especially if the incident is close to or on the racing track), but very often they will call a FCY as soon as a car spins, even if the car doesn't actually hit anything and then continues on its way. I'm not trying to annoy the CART or NASCAR fans, everyone has their own favourite series, I watch the CART races myself (Occasionally NASCAR, though I don't really like that series) and see some very good racing, it's just the yellow flags seem to be brought out too often and without good cause, for me to rate it as the best series. Many people on this group don't like F1 because it's exactly the opposite, the racing can very often be completely spread out with hardly any on track overtaking for the whole race. For me however I see it as racing in it's true form, The package of driver and machine (and pit crew) racing the competition with the least external influence to affect the outcome. I'd still love a good quality CART sim with online racing capability, as long as I could turn the yellow flags off <G> -- Ian P <email invalid due to spam> rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Thu, 17 Aug 2000 16:08:17 +0100, "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >That's just what pisses me off about NASCAR and CART, slightest incident and > >it's a full course yellow. F1 clear all but the worst accidents or incidents > >with a local yellow. (except for digruntled Mercedes employees walking on > >the track ;) ) > > Except that in Nascar or CART, when racing on ovals, the entire 40+ car > field will be back at the incident every 30-60 seconds.. > > That would be a recipe for disaster, IMO. > > The yellow flag rule works fine for Nascar and CART. It also provides > for the closest, most exciting racing of any series on earth. >

They should sell a game license to a sim company like Papy, that way they could afford some cranes to lift the cars away and we'd all be happy :) -- Ian P <email invalid due to spam> Skotty Flynn <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Thu, 17 Aug 2000 14:03:16 -0500, rrevved > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >On Thu, 17 Aug 2000 16:08:17 +0100, "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > >>That's just what pisses me off about NASCAR and CART, slightest incident and > >>it's a full course yellow. F1 clear all but the worst accidents or incidents > >>with a local yellow. (except for digruntled Mercedes employees walking on > >>the track ;) ) > > > >Except that in Nascar or CART, when racing on ovals, the entire 40+ car > >field will be back at the incident every 30-60 seconds.. > > > >That would be a recipe for disaster, IMO. > > > >The yellow flag rule works fine for Nascar and CART. It also provides > >for the closest, most exciting racing of any series on earth. > > > Also they dont have cranes to lift cars off the track. Just tow trucks > which need to drive onto the track to remove them. :)

On Sat, 12 Aug 2000 19:21:21 -0400, "J. Janasov" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Let me guess...you don't like racing so close you that you might actually >touch another car...lol. It's a ton of fun, give it a chance and you'll be >hooked. All fun to the wind, Nascar racing online in any form is a blast! >Get some squirrel juice in your blood and come on boy!! >I'll back this up. As a brit, I'd never heard of NASCAR before the first papyrus sim. But it really does offer some of the best tooth-and-nail-battle style racing that can be found, whether simmed or real-life. Sure, ovals are a very different challenge to what it takes to win an f1 race, but if you love motorsport for it's own sake (like me, I confess) NASCAR is about as good as it gets. cheers Simon

In article <8nh5sr$7p0$[email hidden]>, "Ian P" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>That's just what pisses me off about NASCAR and CART, slightest incident and >it's a full course yellow. F1 clear all but the worst accidents or incidents >with a local yellow. (except for digruntled Mercedes employees walking on >the track ;) ) > >-- >Ian P ><email invalid due to spam> > >EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> In article <[email hidden]>, Graeme Nash >> <[email hidden]> writes: >> >> >>I mean, you call moving >> >>over on the last lap of a race to let your teammate win racing? >> > >> >What about throwing out yellows for non-existent debris on the last lap >> >of the Daytona 500 just because it's about time Dale won :-) >> > >> >> Uh, didn't somebody crash...? >>

Two things: 1. On (tri)ovals, the cars are going at high speed pretty much all the time, running relatively short laps. With only 3,4, or 5 corners(depending on the track), it isn't very safe for the drivers to keep racing during cleanup. 2. On CART road courses, they DO use local yellow. But with the temporary street courses, an accident usually means the entire track is blocked, or strewn with debris. Again, not safe. Remember the course worker who was killed when he was pushing a disabled car, and Willy Ribbs ran over him? Vancouver, I think... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +51.31 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <Mwcp5.20753$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Hugh Jass) writes:

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>CART rarely uses locals on road courses- the stewards are very gun-shy >about it. Also, while I completely agree with your points about why you >always need full-course on ovals, they still call them too frequently. At >Nazareth (the last time I went was when it ran on the scheduled date, no >rain, no snow...but that's another testimony to the idiocy that CART has >become), TWICE a driver set a wheel off, recovered, and there was no >incident nor threat of one. TWICE a 5-9 lap yellow. ELEVEN times in a 225 >mile race, we had roughly 7-lap yellows. Yawn. What should have taken two >hours tops took almost three. The one NASCAR race I went to was the same >story. The enthusiasts for a series can say what the want about parity, >etc, but the result's still the same. They're used to control the outcome. >That's not racing. It's a demonstration. >

I saw that in the last Nascar race. Someone brushed the wall, continued on, and the yellow came out. Personally, *I* didn't see the need for that yellow, but I was just watching on TV, not at the track. I thought about this discussion immediately - I see your point<g>. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +51.31 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

>2. On CART road courses, they DO use local yellow. But with the >temporary street courses, an accident usually means the entire track is >blocked, or strewn with debris. Again, not safe. Remember the course >worker who was killed when he was pushing a disabled car, and Willy >Ribbs ran over him? Vancouver, I think... CART rarely uses locals on road courses- the stewards are very gun-shy about it. Also, while I completely agree with your points about why you always need full-course on ovals, they still call them too frequently. At Nazareth (the last time I went was when it ran on the scheduled date, no rain, no snow...but that's another testimony to the idiocy that CART has become), TWICE a driver set a wheel off, recovered, and there was no incident nor threat of one. TWICE a 5-9 lap yellow. ELEVEN times in a 225 mile race, we had roughly 7-lap yellows. Yawn. What should have taken two hours tops took almost three. The one NASCAR race I went to was the same story. The enthusiasts for a series can say what the want about parity, etc, but the result's still the same. They're used to control the outcome. That's not racing. It's a demonstration. Jeff