Re: Hungary: They talked abot SIMs!!!

In article <[email hidden]>, Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> writes: >*ZZZzzzzz* > >Andre > Andre?....ANDRE! Wake up! You're due on the track in 5 minutes...<g> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +51.95 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

FOXSPORTS announcers brought up sim racing and whether or not you could hear the other cars! It was the consensus that you could hear the "resonence" of the other cars. (Well I guess GP3 loses out big time on that) -Cheers!

This is one area where N3 does really well... -Larry "Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:GRBl5.181$[email hidden]... > FOXSPORTS announcers brought up sim racing and whether or not you couldhear > the other cars! It was the consensus that you could hear the "resonence"of > the other cars. > (Well I guess GP3 loses out big time on that) > > -Cheers! > >

I guess F1 2k does as well, cause I'm pretty damn sure they cant hear the cars on the far side of the track !!! -- Ian P <email invalid due to spam> Regular Racer <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:GRBl5.181$[email hidden]... > FOXSPORTS announcers brought up sim racing and whether or not you could hear > the other cars! It was the consensus that you could hear the "resonence" of > the other cars. > (Well I guess GP3 loses out big time on that) > > -Cheers! > >

WHY were you watching FOX Sports?! ;) -- ----------------------------------- Morgan Vincent Wooten GPLRank: +16.84 mailto:[email hidden] http://members.tripod.com/~morganv/ ----------------------------------- Regular Racer <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:GRBl5.181$[email hidden]... > FOXSPORTS announcers brought up sim racing and whether or not you could hear > the other cars! It was the consensus that you could hear the "resonence" of > the other cars. > (Well I guess GP3 loses out big time on that) > > -Cheers! > > >

If you watched Speedvision's coverage of qualifying, you would of heard the announcer talk about the "futility" of simulators in their quest to replicate auto racing. No g-forces, heat, driving with our fingertips and wearing socks, etc., = these are all just games. Just something to think about when we take our hobby too seriously and start glorifying or condemning sims. BTW, I heard the comment by Damon Hill that he never heard the other cars, so I think GP3 has this about right. David G Fisher "Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:GRBl5.181$[email hidden]... > FOXSPORTS announcers brought up sim racing and whether or not you couldhear > the other cars! It was the consensus that you could hear the "resonence"of > the other cars. > (Well I guess GP3 loses out big time on that) > > -Cheers! > >

> > BTW, I heard the comment by Damon Hill that he never heard the other cars, > so I think GP3 has this about right. > Have you heard Damon Hill play the Guitar? He must be deaf. Some Call Me Tim

"Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:GRBl5.181$[email hidden]... > FOXSPORTS announcers brought up sim racing and whether or not you couldhear > the other cars! It was the consensus that you could hear the "resonence"of > the other cars. > (Well I guess GP3 loses out big time on that) Yep after the last race I sent email to them and asked about this. Then I posted here to ask more people to email them. It worked and was strictly a RAS thing :-) And to be totally fair, Derek Bell said he did not know about modern F1 cars... But in all other forms of racing that he has participated in you could hear the sound and vibration/ resonance of the other cars. The one point in the race where all this is lost is at the start where you hear stuff all over the place and have no idea what the hell is going on :-) Apparently you are just trying to save your ass and make it through the first turn. -- [email hidden]

"Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8n6s89$fo6$[email hidden]... > I guess F1 2k does as well, cause I'm pretty damn sure they cant hear the > cars on the far side of the track !!! Yes certainly... If GP3 is deficient at something then F1 2000 *MUST* be equally as deficient on that same point. Get for real with that. -- [email hidden] > -- > Ian P > <email invalid due to spam> > > Regular Racer <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:GRBl5.181$[email hidden]... > > FOXSPORTS announcers brought up sim racing and whether or not you could > hear > > the other cars! It was the consensus that you could hear the "resonence" > of > > the other cars. > > (Well I guess GP3 loses out big time on that) > > > > -Cheers! > > > > > >

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:VLDl5.100842$A%[email hidden]... > If you watched Speedvision's coverage of qualifying, you would of heardthe > announcer talk about the "futility" of simulators in their quest to > replicate auto racing. No g-forces, heat, driving with our fingertips and > wearing socks, etc., = these are all just games. Yep. This is all totally subjective. But IMHO it does make for great discussions. Plus the end result is that we certainly know much more about the subject. > Just something to think about when we take our hobby too seriously andstart > glorifying or condemning sims. > > BTW, I heard the comment by Damon Hill that he never heard the other cars, > so I think GP3 has this about right. Hell yeah... Of course GP3 does. It was destined :-) In fact Derek Bell said in the Foxsports broadcast that there is more to it than simply sounds. You may feel the vibrations and resonance. So the point is that there a some clue that another car is next to you. So Damon Hill might well be right. However he may have neglected to comment on whether he could feel the other cars. IMHO that is why Derek Bell is head and shoulders above Damon Hill. At least in the broadcast booth. -- [email hidden]

In article <VLDl5.100842$A%[email hidden]>, [email hidden] wrote... > BTW, I heard the comment by Damon Hill that he never heard the other cars, > so I think GP3 has this about right. > > David G Fisher I suppose if Damon lost it in a corner and 15 cars passed him while he sat there he wouldn't hear a thing either, right? And if he were in the pits he would hear cars that weren't there... --David Cook

You think you can hear an F1 car on the other side of the track? I don't and I find it more annoying than not hearing any. I didn't say anything about the merits of other points of the games. Some aspects I prefer GP3, others F1 2000. Overall I prefer GP3 and that is the one which is now installed on my HD. I'm not going to take any notice of the opinion of someone who hasn't even tried the game anyway. So may I suggest you "get for real with that" ? -- Ian P <email invalid due to spam> Greg Cisko <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ODFl5.26701$[email hidden]... > "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:8n6s89$fo6$[email hidden]... > > I guess F1 2k does as well, cause I'm pretty damn sure they cant hear the > > cars on the far side of the track !!! > > Yes certainly... If GP3 is deficient at something then F1 2000 *MUST* > be equally as deficient on that same point. > > Get for real with that. > > -- > > [email hidden]

HJ Ventura wrote: > Anyway i think it has all to do with frequencies. Because i heard other F1 > pilots saying that they could hear other cars and the crowd as well!!! Maybe > its like you hear an other car a bit if his frequency is far different from > the car you are driving in. And the sounds from the some F1 cars are pretty > different!! So... That sounds right. I went kart racing yesterday with a friend of mine who is a fairly serious racer - former area Formula Ford Champ, who now is just driving karts for fun. His kart isn't a shifter, but it is pretty quick (around 50 mph top speed). Anyway, I drove it for several laps while wearing a full driving suit and a tight helmet, and you couldn't hear anything but your own engine until another kart was right on top of you. Even then, it seemed more like a slight change in tone. There was one notable exception. The track was also open to motorcycles and at one point a bike passed me and again I didn't hear anything until the bike was right there ... and at that point it sounded like a Ferrari in comparsion to the karts! Scared the crap out of me. It was a blast driving this kart! This was the first time I had driven one of this power. I'd have to say that sim racing definitely helped me - left foot braking, modulating the gas, hitting apexes, etc. It took me a while to remember that I didn't have paddle shifters on the wheel, though! Dave Ewing -- ***************************************************** David A. Ewing Xilinx Boulder [email hidden] *****************************************************

David G Fisher wrote: > If you watched Speedvision's coverage of qualifying, you would of heard the > announcer talk about the "futility" of simulators in their quest to > replicate auto racing. No g-forces, heat, driving with our fingertips and > wearing socks, etc., = these are all just games. David, at first I thought you were hallucinating, because I couldn't recall this topic on Saturday's Speedvision Qualifying broadcast. Then I remembered - they were talking about the engineering simulations that they run to calculate speed, tire wear, fuel consumption, etc. These aren't driving sims (i.e., not the kind of sims like we play), but computer models simulating these various factors. They quoted one team's engineer about a previous race on a new track and how accurate the simulation was - that they calculated the qualifying speed to around 99% accuracy. If I remember correctly, this topic came up when they were discussing how there wouldn't be an extra day of practice before the USGP at the new Indianapolis track, which used to be customary when the series went to a new venue. They went on to say that with these simulations, this wasn't as much of a problem. Dave Ewing -- ***************************************************** David A. Ewing Xilinx Boulder [email hidden] *****************************************************

On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 19:14:43 -0500, "Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I do not believe I said anything of the sort. OK, then I'm glad we made that clear. :-)

On Mon, 14 Aug 2000 00:49:09 +0100, "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote: >You think you can hear an F1 car on the other side of the track? I don't and >I find it more annoying than not hearing any. At least F12K *has* the sounds, and with the available editors you can tune them down. it's just a pain in the back to do that. JanL

On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 17:53:27 -0500, "Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Yes certainly... If GP3 is deficient at something then F1 2000 *MUST* >be equally as deficient on that same point. Come on Greg, you're not trying to say that the other cars in F12K are *not* too loud, do you? To the developers of F12K, how hard would it have been to have a seperate slider for this? JanL

On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 20:43:33 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote: >BTW, I heard the comment by Damon Hill that he never heard the other cars, >so I think GP3 has this about right. I'm pretty sure even Damon Hill heard other cars when he parked his car in the gravel. If I stop on the track in GP3, I still don't hear anything from the other cars. Besides, PC games are lacking lots of cues that you get in the real world, additional sounds are a good way to make up for that. Just like the exaggerated tire squeaking. JanL

You just don't see it, do you? Simracing is no longer a fascimile of a real life event, it is a pursuit in it's own right. It's got it's own series, benchmarks, ranking lists, stars and journeymen. I'm pretty sure there's a just as heated debate about golf and tennis equipment (which is also linked to "pro" performance) as there is about racing sims. When one has missed the boat, it's easy to dismiss it as "just a game". I hold it's a valid passtime, to be taken as seriously as one likes. Also, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some respect for this hobby, or, at the very least, to be spared ridicule. Like I said before: I don't go around Star Trek conventions holding a sign saying "it's just a TV show", now do I? However, skill on the simulator is just that, skill on the simulator. I think it's bogus to expect it to translate completely to real life. It will help in some ways, sure, but no guarantees. E.g. if I ever get the opportunity to drive my car round the Nordschleife I'm sure I'll enjoy it more and be safer because I know what's coming next, as opposed to someone just bumbling in because he happens to holiday in the region. I learned a lot about real racing through my interest in simracing. It's also made me more aware of the "attitude" of my road car and the dangers of speed. It's one of those "edges", when all else is equal. Jan. =--- PS.: It's also damn good fun.<g> David G Fisher wrote... > If you watched Speedvision's coverage of qualifying, > <snip>

"Jan Loebzien" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 17:53:27 -0500, "Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >Yes certainly... If GP3 is deficient at something then F1 2000 *MUST* > >be equally as deficient on that same point. > > Come on Greg, you're not trying to say that the other cars in F12K > are *not* too loud, do you?

I do not believe I said anything of the sort. > To the developers of F12K, how hard would it have been to have a > seperate slider for this? Ditto. -- [email hidden]

"Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8n7c98$mi1$[email hidden]... > You think you can hear an F1 car on the other side of the track? I don'tand

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> I find it more annoying than not hearing any. > > I didn't say anything about the merits of other points of the games. Some > aspects I prefer GP3, others F1 2000. Overall I prefer GP3 and that is the > one which is now installed on my HD. > I'm not going to take any notice of the opinion of someone who hasn't even > tried the game anyway.

Well I tried the game many years ago when it was called GP2. > So may I suggest you "get for real with that" ? Certainly. You can suggest anything you want. -- [email hidden]

On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 20:43:33 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote: >If you watched Speedvision's coverage of qualifying, you would of heard the >announcer talk about the "futility" of simulators in their quest to >replicate auto racing. No g-forces, heat, driving with our fingertips and >wearing socks, etc., = these are all just games. *yawn* >Just something to think about when we take our hobby too seriously and start >glorifying or condemning sims. *yawn* > >BTW, I heard the comment by Damon Hill that he never heard the other cars, >so I think GP3 has this about right. *ZZZzzzzz* Andre

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>David G Fisher > > >"Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:GRBl5.181$[email hidden]... >> FOXSPORTS announcers brought up sim racing and whether or not you could >hear >> the other cars! It was the consensus that you could hear the "resonence" >of >> the other cars. >> (Well I guess GP3 loses out big time on that) >> >> -Cheers! >> >>

How do you know nothing has changed when you haven't played it? The three things you keep criticizing GP3 for (slow-mo, poor multi-player and no other car sounds) are in my opinion preferable to having errors in the track layouts (unforgiveable), or poor graphics, or a slow un-optimized engine, or AI crashes on the formation lap(!) and AI pile-ups in the races, or no weather, etc. Slow-mo is only an issue in hot-lap competitions, it's quite easy to make sure PO stays below 100% always (even after you've upped the frame rate from 25 to 36). "Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:4RGl5.26899$[email hidden]... > > Well I tried the game many years ago when it was called GP2.

Actually it was do to his trailer being sound proof that Damon didn't hear the other cars......he heard them on the walk back to his pits but that was about it :) Norm "Some Call Me Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:t4El5.14197$[email hidden]... > > > > > BTW, I heard the comment by Damon Hill that he never heard the othercars,

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> > so I think GP3 has this about right. > > > > > Have you heard Damon Hill play the Guitar? He must be deaf. > > Some Call Me Tim > >

> > I'm not going to take any notice of the opinion of someone who hasn'teven > > tried the game anyway. > > Well I tried the game many years ago when it was called GP2. Hey! Haven't I seen you before....when you were called David Spade? =) Ah, the old Spade on Hollywood days... -- Kirk Lane [email hidden]

When you say Damon Hill could not hear other cars that is in reference to the Japanese GP 1996, where Berger attempted to pass him the the chicane, Berger almost punted Hill off but Hill never saw him. Hill said later he could hear the other car which was unusual because normally you can't, and it suprised him because he did not see the car and did not expect it to be so close. This was a big deal because had Berger put hill off he coudl have cost Hill the championship. <FLAME ON> From reading all these posts I am suprised nobody knew this, there are so many "experts" out there anxious to cut everyone else down. Like the person who put *YAWN* after someone elses comments in this thread. I remember when rec.autos.sport.f1 for example was fun to read, you guys just attack each other. <FLAME OFF> ----------------------------------------------------------- Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

> BTW, I heard the comment by Damon Hill that he never heard the other cars, > so I think GP3 has this about right. You mean Damon Hill was playing GP3 and never heard other cars ?? Yeah, he was right then........ : -)) Maybe DH quit with racing after he didnt hear a thing anymore...... : - D Anyway i think it has all to do with frequencies. Because i heard other F1 pilots saying that they could hear other cars and the crowd as well!!! Maybe its like you hear an other car a bit if his frequency is far different from the car you are driving in. And the sounds from the some F1 cars are pretty different!! So... I mean step in your own car. Go to the highway. Some cars who are passing you, you will hear, others you dont (i am talking about passing with a little more speed). Its ofcourse not the same as F1 racing !!! But maybe it has anything to do with it.... Maybe.. BUT...... One thing thats for sure, is that you should hear other cars at the starting grid. Why? Because everybody is pressing the throttle at another moment (and in another way) than the other person. So i am definitly sure, you will hear carsounds then !!!! In this aspect GP3 sucks IMO. Anyway: i like both games (f12k a little little little more... but thats ofcourse my opinion) HJ

David Ewing <[email hidden]> writes: > It was a blast driving this kart! This was the first time I had driven one of > this power. I'd have to say that sim racing definitely helped me - left foot > braking, modulating the gas, hitting apexes, etc. It took me a while to > remember that I didn't have paddle shifters on the wheel, though! I had a similar experince this summer. Tried the 100 cc kart of a friend of mine, top speed was 100 km/h and average speed was 72 km/h around the track. The poor twostroke engine did 13500 revs at the end of the straight. I was 4 seconds off pace (42 seconds) but I still impressed my friend and his father a bit because I braked on the limit and mudulated the gas right and did a half-proper raceline, very much thanks to GP. It was the biggest kick I had this summer. -- Olav K. Malmin remove spam when replying

"Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:4sHl5.32772$[email hidden]... > How do you know nothing has changed when you haven't played it? > > The three things you keep criticizing GP3 for (slow-mo, poor multi-player > and no other car sounds) are in my opinion preferable to having errors in > the track layouts (unforgiveable), or poor graphics, or a slowun-optimized > engine, or AI crashes on the formation lap(!) and AI pile-ups in theraces, > or no weather, etc. So you are saying that if I get GP3, I will find that the game does not have Slo-Mo, the AI cars will have sound and multiplayer is not porked? -- [email hidden] > Slow-mo is only an issue in hot-lap competitions, it's quite easy to make > sure PO stays below 100% always (even after you've upped the frame rate from > 25 to 36). > > > "Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:4RGl5.26899$[email hidden]... > > > > Well I tried the game many years ago when it was called GP2. > > >

"Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Pn_l5.35835$[email hidden]... > That's not what I said at all, I said that the flaws in GP3 are less > significant than the flaws in F1 2000. > Like I said slow-mo only matters for hot-lap competitions, multi-playeronly > matter if you wanna play the game multi-player, and the AI car sound thing > is nothing more than a minor irritation. > > All those thing pale into insignificance when compared with F1 2000, agame > which couldn't even get the tracks the right shape. In your opinion. Many (not only me) seem to disagree with you with regards to F1 2000. It just means different strokes for different folks. -- [email hidden]

"Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Pn_l5.35835$[email hidden]... > That's not what I said at all, I said that the flaws in GP3 are less > significant than the flaws in F1 2000. > Like I said slow-mo only matters for hot-lap competitions, multi-playeronly > matter if you wanna play the game multi-player, and the AI car sound thing > is nothing more than a minor irritation. Also these 3 points were things in GP2 that *HAD* to be changed or else I would not buy it. Period. For me all 3 points are that important. -- [email hidden]

In article <OUWl5.698696$k22.3234585@flipper>, [email hidden] says... > I mean step in your own car. Go to the highway. Some cars who are passing > you, you will hear, others you dont (i am talking about passing with a > little more speed). Its ofcourse not the same as F1 racing !!! But maybe it > has anything to do with it.... Maybe.. > LOL! Sorry, can't help it.. :) -- Greetings Johan N [email hidden]

That's not what I said at all, I said that the flaws in GP3 are less significant than the flaws in F1 2000. Like I said slow-mo only matters for hot-lap competitions, multi-player only matter if you wanna play the game multi-player, and the AI car sound thing is nothing more than a minor irritation. All those thing pale into insignificance when compared with F1 2000, a game which couldn't even get the tracks the right shape. "Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:JKZl5.28907$[email hidden]... > > So you are saying that if I get GP3, I will find that the game does > not have Slo-Mo, the AI cars will have sound and multiplayer > is not porked?

Yes, he said those things also, but he his initial comments were what I referred to. He made two distinct points really. What I posted, and what you describe below. He said that driving simulations were "futile" because of all the work, and the extrememe conditions, a driver faces that can't be duplicated and experienced by the sim driver. There's nothing in that comment that should surprise anybody. The simulation of engineering principles surely can be done fairly accurately, which is the second point he made. David G Fisher , "David Ewing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > David G Fisher wrote: > > > If you watched Speedvision's coverage of qualifying, you would of heardthe > > announcer talk about the "futility" of simulators in their quest to > > replicate auto racing. No g-forces, heat, driving with our fingertipsand > > wearing socks, etc., = these are all just games. > > David, at first I thought you were hallucinating, because I couldn'trecall > this topic on Saturday's Speedvision Qualifying broadcast. Then Iremembered - > they were talking about the engineering simulations that they run tocalculate > speed, tire wear, fuel consumption, etc. These aren't driving sims (i.e.,not > the kind of sims like we play), but computer models simulating thesevarious > factors. They quoted one team's engineer about a previous race on a newtrack > and how accurate the simulation was - that they calculated the qualifyingspeed > to around 99% accuracy. If I remember correctly, this topic came up whenthey > were discussing how there wouldn't be an extra day of practice before theUSGP > at the new Indianapolis track, which used to be customary when the serieswent > to a new venue. They went on to say that with these simulations, thiswasn't

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> as much of a problem. > > Dave Ewing > > -- > ***************************************************** > David A. Ewing > Xilinx Boulder [email hidden] > ***************************************************** > > >

In article <CAam5.1430$[email hidden]>, "Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> writes: >Jimmy Vasser claimed he had no idea Dario Franchitti was next to >him this past Sunday. That is total BS IMHO. Vasser knew that Franchitti >was there but took him out to save some "respect". At least that was >Parker Johnstone's theory. I really hate the "I would rather crash you than >give you the corner" school of racing. One of the Skip Barber instructors was commenting on Zanardi's pass of Herta ('The Pass). He said it basically screwed up Hertta's mind for every race after that. In other words, Bryan 'knew' he wouldn't be able to hold off Alex in every subsequent situation. The comment was Alex made Bryan his 'bitch'...<g> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +51.31 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Greg Cisko wrote:

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> > "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:8n6s89$fo6$[email hidden]... > > I guess F1 2k does as well, cause I'm pretty damn sure they cant hear the > > cars on the far side of the track !!! > > Yes certainly... If GP3 is deficient at something then F1 2000 *MUST* > be equally as deficient on that same point. > > Get for real with that.

I think he's in "Cisco mode"... ;) -- l8er ronny Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change to take effect. Reboot now? |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

David G Fisher wrote:

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> Yes, he said those things also, but he his initial comments were what I > referred to. > > He made two distinct points really. What I posted, and what you describe > below. > > He said that driving simulations were "futile" because of all the work, and > the extrememe conditions, a driver faces that can't be duplicated and > experienced by the sim driver. There's nothing in that comment that should > surprise anybody.

Okay, thanks, David. I somehow missed that when I was watching. Dave Ewing -- ***************************************************** David A. Ewing Xilinx Boulder [email hidden] *****************************************************

When GP3 is running under 100% PO, the slow-mo never happens, so it's not a problem. The slow-mo enables people to cheat, but that only matters if you are going to enter hot-lap competetions. If you are hot-lapping against your own PB's or the '98 circuit records, or racing the AI, or playing multiplayer on a LAN, then the slow-mo is not an issue. Multi-player does stink, I can't argue with you there. It only works on a LAN. As for hearing the AI cars, there has been lengthy debate over whether or not you can hear the other cars form inside an F1 cockpit. As you will probably already know, Damon Hill once made a comment to the effect that almost all the time you cannot hear the other cars. You overlook F1 2000's many faults to see a worthwhile game, I do the same with GP3. "Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:dC_l5.28942$[email hidden]...

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> "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Pn_l5.35835$[email hidden]... > > That's not what I said at all, I said that the flaws in GP3 are less > > significant than the flaws in F1 2000. > > Like I said slow-mo only matters for hot-lap competitions, multi-player > only > > matter if you wanna play the game multi-player, and the AI car sound

thing

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> > is nothing more than a minor irritation. > > Also these 3 points were things in GP2 that *HAD* to be changed > or else I would not buy it. Period. > > For me all 3 points are that important. > > > -- > > [email hidden] > > > > >

"Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Pn_l5.35835$[email hidden]... > That's not what I said at all, I said that the flaws in GP3 are less > significant than the flaws in F1 2000. > Like I said slow-mo only matters for hot-lap competitions, multi-playeronly > matter if you wanna play the game multi-player, and the AI car sound thing > is nothing more than a minor irritation. Also these 3 points were things in GP2 that *HAD* to be changed or else I would not buy it. Period. For me all 3 points are that important. -- [email hidden]

"Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:NX%l5.36189$[email hidden]... > As for hearing the AI cars, there has been lengthy debate over whether or > not you can hear the other cars form inside an F1 cockpit. As you will > probably already know, Damon Hill once made a comment to the effect that > almost all the time you cannot hear the other cars. Yeah, well Derek Bell said you could hear or feel the other cars. Interesting that you conveniently left that part out, as I suspect all GP3 apologists would. I also said in another post that Damon Hill just might be able to feel the cars... Also, most drivers "claim" to not hear other cars in the corner when they take people out. I certainly wouldn't put much stock to something a driver said after the wreck. Jimmy Vasser claimed he had no idea Dario Franchitti was next to him this past Sunday. That is total BS IMHO. Vasser knew that Franchitti was there but took him out to save some "respect". At least that was Parker Johnstone's theory. I really hate the "I would rather crash you than give you the corner" school of racing. -- [email hidden]

You are very selective in answering points. I presume the points you don't answer you must be agreeing with. > Yeah, well Derek Bell said you could hear or feel the other cars. > Interesting > that you conveniently left that part out, as I suspect all GP3 apologists > would. I just had to read the whole thread to understand what this was about. I don't get US tv so I couldn't possibly have known this. Jimmy Vasser and Damon Hill would be two of the most honest drivers you would ever meet, although maybe not the most talented, so there's no reason to assume they are lying. Even if you can 'feel' the other cars, that's no reason to model this into the sound. Anyway, I don't care whether or not you can or cannot hear the other cars in F1, I was just pointing out that there is clearly a certain amount of doubt on this subject. If I am a GP3 apologist then you are an F1 2000 apologist. You lambast flaws in one game and ignore them in another. Again, how come it doesn't matter to you that the F1 2000 tracks have actual errors in their layouts? I'm not saying GP3 is great, it's total crap compared to GPL, as is just about everything i've ever played. The only point I'm trying to make is that you talk about only the positive things about F1 2000, and only the negative things about GP3. > I also said in another post that Damon Hill just might be able to feel the > cars... Also, most drivers "claim" to not hear other cars in the corner > when they take people out. I certainly wouldn't put much stock tosomething > a driver said after the wreck. > > Jimmy Vasser claimed he had no idea Dario Franchitti was next to > him this past Sunday. That is total BS IMHO. Vasser knew that Franchitti > was there but took him out to save some "respect". At least that was > Parker Johnstone's theory. I really hate the "I would rather crash youthan

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> give you the corner" school of racing. > > -- > > [email hidden] > > > > >

"Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:xlim5.37830$[email hidden]... > If I am a GP3 apologist then you are an F1 2000 apologist. You lambast > flaws in one game and ignore them in another. Again, how come it doesn't > matter to you that the F1 2000 tracks have actual errors in their layouts? Because... I simply don't think they are as bad as everyone says. The tracks look pretty good as compared to the incar camera views this year. I have said this a zillion times already in other threads. Why ask me again? -- [email hidden]

Hmmm...So it appears then that F12k is the "off one" then? "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oOjm5.38248$[email hidden]...

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> Let's see- > > Eu Rouge at Spa is a left followed by a right, followed by a left, and it > leads into- > > Real F1 - A long straight with a kink before half-way > > GP3 - A long straight with a kink before half-way > > F1RS - A long straight with a kink before half-way > > F1 99 - A long straight with a kink before half-way > > F1 2000 - A hill > > "Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:fpjm5.2213$[email hidden]... > > "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:xlim5.37830$[email hidden]... > > > If I am a GP3 apologist then you are an F1 2000 apologist. You

lambast

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> > > flaws in one game and ignore them in another. Again, how come it > doesn't > > > matter to you that the F1 2000 tracks have actual errors in their > layouts? > > > > Because... I simply don't think they are as bad as everyone says. > > The tracks look pretty good as compared to the incar camera > > views this year. I have said this a zillion times already in other > > threads. Why ask me again? > > > > -- > > > > [email hidden] > >

"Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oOjm5.38248$[email hidden]...

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> Let's see- > > Eu Rouge at Spa is a left followed by a right, followed by a left, and it > leads into- > > Real F1 - A long straight with a kink before half-way > > GP3 - A long straight with a kink before half-way > > F1RS - A long straight with a kink before half-way > > F1 99 - A long straight with a kink before half-way > > F1 2000 - A hill

A hill? And then what??? Does the hill just keep going? I just did a few laps at Spa in F1 2000. All I can think is you are being argumentative just for the sake of being argumentative. In RL Eu Rouge is followed by a long straight which is *very* much up hill. In fact if you knew the track in GP2 (which is also very much uphill in this portion of the track) or World Circuit or F1RS, you will immediately feel at home in the F1RS version. -- [email hidden]

Let's see- Eu Rouge at Spa is a left followed by a right, followed by a left, and it leads into- Real F1 - A long straight with a kink before half-way GP3 - A long straight with a kink before half-way F1RS - A long straight with a kink before half-way F1 99 - A long straight with a kink before half-way F1 2000 - A hill "Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:fpjm5.2213$[email hidden]... > "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:xlim5.37830$[email hidden]... > > If I am a GP3 apologist then you are an F1 2000 apologist. You lambast > > flaws in one game and ignore them in another. Again, how come itdoesn't > > matter to you that the F1 2000 tracks have actual errors in theirlayouts?

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> > Because... I simply don't think they are as bad as everyone says. > The tracks look pretty good as compared to the incar camera > views this year. I have said this a zillion times already in other > threads. Why ask me again? > > -- > > [email hidden]

On Tue, 15 Aug 2000 22:49:56 GMT, "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Let's see- > >Eu Rouge at Spa is a left followed by a right, followed by a left, and it >leads into- > >Real F1 - A long straight with a kink before half-way >GP3 - A long straight with a kink before half-way >F1RS - A long straight with a kink before half-way >F1 99 - A long straight with a kink before half-way >F1 2000 - A hill

Hmmm, fairly convincing set of stats...! You won't convince anyone with facts though, we've all learned that by now. The warcry of usenet, "even if you _prove_ it to me I won't believe you"..... Actually though it's worse than you describe - that "kink" isn't a kink, it's an actual corner. It's called "Kemmel", and as you can see below it's very pronounced indeed. http://www.spa-francorchamps.be/gfx/track/4-61.jpg Leaving out an actual named corner is a touch poor - which one next, 130R? Copse? Maybe Rascasse? We can just drive in for a swim! John

On 15 Aug 2000 22:09:24 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

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>In article <CAam5.1430$[email hidden]>, "Greg Cisko" ><[email hidden]> writes: > >>Jimmy Vasser claimed he had no idea Dario Franchitti was next to >>him this past Sunday. That is total BS IMHO. Vasser knew that Franchitti >>was there but took him out to save some "respect". At least that was >>Parker Johnstone's theory. I really hate the "I would rather crash you than >>give you the corner" school of racing. > >One of the Skip Barber instructors was commenting on Zanardi's pass of Herta >('The Pass). He said it basically screwed up Hertta's mind for every race >after that. In other words, Bryan 'knew' he wouldn't be able to hold off Alex >in every subsequent situation. The comment was Alex made Bryan his >'bitch'...<g>

What a coincidence! I also used those same exact words to describe Zanardi's move. But only among civilized company, of course... :-) Martin Long Live Nigel Mansell!

:) Seriously Greg, I'm not being argumentative. The only reason I feel the need to keep having this debate is that you seem to criticize GP3 at every opportunity. Fair enough, from what you've heard you don't like it, and won't be buying it, I don't have a problem with that, but must you constantly criticize it? I'm sure most people here (including me) think Toca 2 is pretty awful, but whenever it gets mentioned you don't see a tirade of abuse against it. I don't jump in on every F1 2000 thread to give my opinions and abuse the game. Let me put it this way. Although F1 2000 has flaws, in your opinion the excellent physics model and the other good features make up for them, yes? Well, for a lot of people here the same thing applies for GP3. Although it has all the flaws you've read about it also has some excellent features like gameplay, close racing and really cool weather, which you probably haven't read about. This is why it matters that you haven't played it, you've read more about the games bad point than it's good points. Just let the people who like it continue to like it and be able to discuss it in peace. (just going to look at spa in f1rs :) ) "Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:lAkm5.2368$[email hidden]...

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> > A hill? And then what??? Does the hill just keep going? > > I just did a few laps at Spa in F1 2000. All I can think is you are > being argumentative just for the sake of being argumentative. In > RL Eu Rouge is followed by a long straight which is *very* much > up hill. In fact if you knew the track in GP2 (which is also very > much uphill in this portion of the track) or World Circuit or F1RS, > you will immediately feel at home in the F1RS version. > > [email hidden]

By "Real F1" I meant the actual sport :) "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > So... which is the right one? > > Andre

On Tue, 15 Aug 2000 22:49:56 GMT, "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Let's see- > >Eu Rouge at Spa is a left followed by a right, followed by a left, and it >leads into- > >Real F1 - A long straight with a kink before half-way > >GP3 - A long straight with a kink before half-way > >F1RS - A long straight with a kink before half-way > >F1 99 - A long straight with a kink before half-way > >F1 2000 - A hill

So... which is the right one? Andre

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> >"Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:fpjm5.2213$[email hidden]... >> "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:xlim5.37830$[email hidden]... >> > If I am a GP3 apologist then you are an F1 2000 apologist. You lambast >> > flaws in one game and ignore them in another. Again, how come it >doesn't >> > matter to you that the F1 2000 tracks have actual errors in their >layouts? >> >> Because... I simply don't think they are as bad as everyone says. >> The tracks look pretty good as compared to the incar camera >> views this year. I have said this a zillion times already in other >> threads. Why ask me again? >> >> -- >> >> [email hidden] >

In article <xlim5.37830$[email hidden]>, "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> writes: >If I am a GP3 apologist then you are an F1 2000 apologist. You lambast >flaws in one game and ignore them in another. Again, how come it doesn't >matter to you that the F1 2000 tracks have actual errors in their layouts? Can I ask a question? Are these errors something that would 'jump out' at someone who only watches the races on TV? I've never been to ANY of the tracks in the game, so maybe I'm missing something... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +51.31 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Well, just for an example, take the straights at Hockenheim. In countless racing games they are flat with very small bumps. Also you can see in F1 that they are also extremely flat. In F1 at Hockenheim you get to see all the way along the straights so it's easy to see how flat they are. But in F1 2000 there are totally exagerated bumps, actual rises and troughs, which you can feel the car going up and down. Another example, the descent to Mirabeau (the sharp right hander before the Lowes hairpin) at Monaco is downhill at about 30 degrees in every racing sim i've played, including GPL. I've also got in-car movies from real F1 and it's quite clearly a steep descent, but in F1 2000 it's not a descent at all. A fair number of the elevation changes at Monaco are just missing. Also the colours of everything is wrong, the track surfaces are all way too dark. Most F1 tracks are light grey, but in F1 2000 they are nearly black, and Monaco has a brown track for some strange reason. It just shows a lack of attention to detail and makes me wonder if any of the ISI team actual watch F1. God knows where they got their track maps from. It's a shame because another EA game (although by EA Sports and not ISI), Superbike 2000, has such fantastic tracks. "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20000815232907.02796.00006056@nso- > > Can I ask a question? Are these errors something that would 'jump out' at > someone who only watches the races on TV? I've never been to ANY of thetracks > in the game, so maybe I'm missing something... > > Eldred

"Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:lAkm5.2368$[email hidden]... > up hill. In fact if you knew the track in GP2 (which is also very > much uphill in this portion of the track) or World Circuit or F1RS, > you will immediately feel at home in the F1RS version. Obviously I meant F1 2000 not F1RS :-) -- [email hidden]

"Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:c8tm5.39575$[email hidden]... > Also the colours of everything is wrong, the track surfaces are all waytoo > dark. Most F1 tracks are light grey, but in F1 2000 they are nearlyblack, > and Monaco has a brown track for some strange reason. Maybe I have my computer setup better than yours, cause I don't have weird color problems in F1 2000. Also maybe you should lay off the psyche mushrooms before playing F1 games, that would explain allot :-) -- [email hidden]

"Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:f9lm5.38815$[email hidden]... > :) Seriously Greg, I'm not being argumentative. The only reason I feelthe OK. > need to keep having this debate is that you seem to criticize GP3 at every > opportunity. Fair enough, from what you've heard you don't like it, and > won't be buying it, I don't have a problem with that, but must you > constantly criticize it? It sure sounds like you are being argumentive for the sake of being argumentive for the reasons you gave! Quite astonishing! And I stopped my whole sale bashing of GP2.5 some time ago. Surely you must know this, or you are psycho and see any post I make (regardless of the subject) as a GP2.5 bash. I believe if you look at this thread closely, you will find that it was *YOU* that pushed GP2.5 to the fore. I was simply talking about whether you could hear the other cars from a cockpit while racing. Then I organized a push to have [email hidden] answer that question. While they did... Obviously the GP2.5 crowd don't like the answer. > I'm sure most people here (including me) think Toca 2 is pretty awful, but > whenever it gets mentioned you don't see a tirade of abuse against it. I > don't jump in on every F1 2000 thread to give my opinions and abuse the > game. As I don't with GP2.5... I can start again if you really want me to. > Let me put it this way. Although F1 2000 has flaws, in your opinion the > excellent physics model and the other good features make up for them, yes? Yep. Exactly right. > Well, for a lot of people here the same thing applies for GP3. Althoughit Fine. If you want an unfixed game that is just great by me. I was hoping for more and have already voiced my opinion on that subject. > has all the flaws you've read about it also has some excellent featureslike > gameplay, close racing and really cool weather, which you probably haven't > read about. This is why it matters that you haven't played it, you'veread Of course i have read about all of the cool stuff. Not everyone reads only certain parts of certain posts like you apparently do :-) > more about the games bad point than it's good points. > > Just let the people who like it continue to like it and be able to discuss > it in peace. I think I have been. > (just going to look at spa in f1rs :) ) Don't be a smart ass, you know I meant F1 2000 :-) -- [email hidden]

> > (just going to look at spa in f1rs :) ) > > Don't be a smart ass, you know I meant F1 2000 :-) Sorry Greg, but you've got the wrong end of the stick here. I actually *was* going to try F1RS, to see how the track through Eau Rouge compared with GP3 and F1 2000. Believe me, I'm not so petty as to start criticizing accidental typos :) If you've stopped criticizing GP3 then fair enough, I haven't been on the ng much the last two weeks so I wouldn't have noticed.

> Maybe I have my computer setup better than yours, cause I don't > have weird color problems in F1 2000. Also maybe you should > lay off the psyche mushrooms before playing F1 games, that would > explain allot :-) Take a look at http://www.sbdev.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Image1.jpg which shows a screenshot from F1 2000, GP3 and a real photo from F1 all side-by-side. Both GP3 and F1 2000 are running with the same gamma settings. This is what F1 2000 looks like on my PC. If it doesn't look like this on your machine then fair enough.

I have to agree. F12k looks "worse" on my machine than GP3. "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:WnAm5.326$[email hidden]... > > Maybe I have my computer setup better than yours, cause I don't > > have weird color problems in F1 2000. Also maybe you should > > lay off the psyche mushrooms before playing F1 games, that would > > explain allot :-) > > Take a look at http://www.sbdev.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Image1.jpg whichshows > a screenshot from F1 2000, GP3 and a real photo from F1 all side-by-side. > Both GP3 and F1 2000 are running with the same gamma settings. This iswhat

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> F1 2000 looks like on my PC. If it doesn't look like this on your machine > then fair enough. > > > > >

Oh, 3 great comparison stills too! "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:WnAm5.326$[email hidden]... > > Maybe I have my computer setup better than yours, cause I don't > > have weird color problems in F1 2000. Also maybe you should > > lay off the psyche mushrooms before playing F1 games, that would > > explain allot :-) > > Take a look at http://www.sbdev.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Image1.jpg whichshows > a screenshot from F1 2000, GP3 and a real photo from F1 all side-by-side. > Both GP3 and F1 2000 are running with the same gamma settings. This iswhat

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> F1 2000 looks like on my PC. If it doesn't look like this on your machine > then fair enough. > > > > >

In article <c8tm5.39575$[email hidden]>, "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Well, just for an example, take the straights at Hockenheim. In countless >racing games they are flat with very small bumps. Also you can see in F1 >that they are also extremely flat. In F1 at Hockenheim you get to see all >the way along the straights so it's easy to see how flat they are. But in >F1 2000 there are totally exagerated bumps, actual rises and troughs, which >you can feel the car going up and down. > >Another example, the descent to Mirabeau (the sharp right hander before the >Lowes hairpin) at Monaco is downhill at about 30 degrees in every racing sim >i've played, including GPL. I've also got in-car movies from real F1 and >it's quite clearly a steep descent, but in F1 2000 it's not a descent at >all. A fair number of the elevation changes at Monaco are just missing. > >Also the colours of everything is wrong, the track surfaces are all way too >dark. Most F1 tracks are light grey, but in F1 2000 they are nearly black, >and Monaco has a brown track for some strange reason. > >It just shows a lack of attention to detail and makes me wonder if any of >the ISI team actual watch F1. God knows where they got their track maps >from. > >It's a shame because another EA game (although by EA Sports and not ISI), >Superbike 2000, has such fantastic tracks.

Ok, the only tracks I've run are Imola, Hockenheim, Interlagos, Indy, and Adelaide. The bumps drive me crazy at Interlagos and Hockenheim, but people have responded that it's pretty true to life... So, I don't know what else to say. I don't have GP3 yet, so I can't compare. How does GP3 and F1 2K compare to SBK(not 2000) for track accuracy? That one I have. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +51.31 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <fpjm5.2213$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > Because... I simply don't think they are as bad as everyone says. > The tracks look pretty good as compared to the incar camera > views this year. I have said this a zillion times already in other > threads. Why ask me again? I may not be able to spot tracks down to the minute detail, and I've trodden this path before, but I have quite a bit of in-car footage and the tracks look quite accurate to me based on this footage. Because of the angle of the camera, it's hard to judge elevation changes, but the track layout itself is reasonably close at the very least. I prefer the driving experience GP3 gives me, but I've never understood why so many pounce on F1-2000 for its lack of track accuracy. Cheers, Rod.

Well put Jan that's exactly my take on this whole thing as well.... PH "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > You just don't see it, do you? > > Simracing is no longer a fascimile of a real life event, it is a pursuitin > it's own right. It's got it's own series, benchmarks, ranking lists, stars > and journeymen. I'm pretty sure there's a just as heated debate about golf > and tennis equipment (which is also linked to "pro" performance) as thereis > about racing sims. > > When one has missed the boat, it's easy to dismiss it as "just a game". > > I hold it's a valid passtime, to be taken as seriously as one likes. Also,I > don't think it's unreasonable to expect some respect for this hobby, or,at > the very least, to be spared ridicule. Like I said before: I don't goaround > Star Trek conventions holding a sign saying "it's just a TV show", now doI? > > However, skill on the simulator is just that, skill on the simulator. I > think it's bogus to expect it to translate completely to real life. Itwill

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> help in some ways, sure, but no guarantees. E.g. if I ever get the > opportunity to drive my car round the Nordschleife I'm sure I'll enjoy it > more and be safer because I know what's coming next, as opposed to someone > just bumbling in because he happens to holiday in the region. I learned a > lot about real racing through my interest in simracing. It's also made me > more aware of the "attitude" of my road car and the dangers of speed. > > It's one of those "edges", when all else is equal. > > Jan. > =--- > PS.: It's also damn good fun.<g> > > David G Fisher wrote... > > If you watched Speedvision's coverage of qualifying, > > <snip> > >

The word is "perspective". David G Fisher "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > You just don't see it, do you? > > Simracing is no longer a fascimile of a real life event, it is a pursuitin > it's own right. It's got it's own series, benchmarks, ranking lists, stars > and journeymen. I'm pretty sure there's a just as heated debate about golf > and tennis equipment (which is also linked to "pro" performance) as thereis > about racing sims. > > When one has missed the boat, it's easy to dismiss it as "just a game". > > I hold it's a valid passtime, to be taken as seriously as one likes. Also,I > don't think it's unreasonable to expect some respect for this hobby, or,at > the very least, to be spared ridicule. Like I said before: I don't goaround > Star Trek conventions holding a sign saying "it's just a TV show", now doI? > > However, skill on the simulator is just that, skill on the simulator. I > think it's bogus to expect it to translate completely to real life. Itwill

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> help in some ways, sure, but no guarantees. E.g. if I ever get the > opportunity to drive my car round the Nordschleife I'm sure I'll enjoy it > more and be safer because I know what's coming next, as opposed to someone > just bumbling in because he happens to holiday in the region. I learned a > lot about real racing through my interest in simracing. It's also made me > more aware of the "attitude" of my road car and the dangers of speed. > > It's one of those "edges", when all else is equal. > > Jan. > =--- > PS.: It's also damn good fun.<g> > > David G Fisher wrote... > > If you watched Speedvision's coverage of qualifying, > > <snip> > >

On Mon, 14 Aug 2000 01:31:31 +0200, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote: <snip> >I hold it's a valid passtime, to be taken as seriously as one likes. Also, I >don't think it's unreasonable to expect some respect for this hobby, or, at >the very least, to be spared ridicule. Like I said before: I don't go around >Star Trek conventions holding a sign saying "it's just a TV show", now do I?<snip> LOL! Jan, you must have seen that Saturday Night live episode with the Star Trek convention parody. William Shatner was the main guest at that convention, and also shouted to the (fully dressed in Star Trek costumes) visitors 'GET A LIFE, IT'S ONLY A TV SHOW!'. That was damn funny! Ehh... well, you should have seen it, it really was. Anyway, excellent post, as allways. Andre

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>Jan. >=--- >PS.: It's also damn good fun.<g> > >David G Fisher wrote... >> If you watched Speedvision's coverage of qualifying, >> <snip> >

Actually, that was my inspiration. Good call Andre! ;-) Jan. =--- Andre Warringa wrote... <snip>

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> LOL! Jan, you must have seen that Saturday Night live > episode with the Star Trek convention parody. William > Shatner was the main guest at that convention, and > also shouted to the (fully dressed in Star Trek > costumes) visitors 'GET A LIFE, IT'S ONLY A TV SHOW!'. > That was damn funny! > Ehh... well, you should have seen it, it really was. > Anyway, excellent post, as allways. > > Andre<snip>

In article <9n9n5.5288$[email hidden]>, "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Well, I'm no expert, but to me the SBK 2000 tracks are the best i've seen. >I'm sure you'd agree, Laguna Seca is stunning. > >From my experience of watching F1, the F1 2000 Hockenheim looks way too >bumpy. Take a look at >http://www.raisport.rai.it/eventi/f199/germania/04.jpg which is a photo from >Hockenheim, and shows what looks to me (it's a little hard to tell from this >shot) like the section straight after turn one. You can see the track here >is totally flat with no elevation changes. The bumps are probably less than >a few inches high.

So maybe the slowness of my system(K63-400) is causing the track in F1 2K to be more 'jumpy'. It might not seem that way on a faster system...? Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +51.31 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Fri, 18 Aug 2000 08:16:50 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Nobody's pissing on anyone's parade. The problem is that a small group of >people's fanaticism for one particular sim often makes it very difficult to >have an open, informative discussion about car simulators here at r.a.s. The problem is that _one_ person's unwillingness to accept that GPL actually is the best sim out there makes it impossible to....blahm blah, blah. Endless gainsaying is the problem, not one side or the other. Funny how this comes along with every new sim - don't people get tired of it? John

On Mon, 14 Aug 2000 01:45:39 +0200, Jan Loebzien <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 20:43:33 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> >wrote: > >>BTW, I heard the comment by Damon Hill that he never heard the other cars, >>so I think GP3 has this about right. > >I'm pretty sure even Damon Hill heard other cars when he parked >his car in the gravel. If I stop on the track in GP3, I still don't >hear anything from the other cars. >

Although a fellow brit, I would never base my opinions on what an F1 pilot can or can't do on that loser Damon. He was surely the biggest waste of an f1 seat this side of Pedro Diniz, and his Championship came basically only because no one else could have won it. (If Jaques' car hadn't developed that oil leak in the opening race, and he had gone on to win, I think it would have been a different story. JV is a REAL racer!) Mr controversial Simon

In what way? Perspective as in how big a role one can allow a "game" to play in life, perhaps? -Who are you to judge that? Or perspective as to relative merit of games? -Since when has that ever bothered anyone here (besides you)? Jan. =--- David G Fisher wrote... > The word is "perspective". > > David G Fisher<snip>

Jan Verschueren wrote in message ... >In what way? > >Perspective as in how big a role one can allow a "game" to play in life, >perhaps? -Who are you to judge that? I've never understood people who enjoying pissing on other people's parades. If you want to devote your life to a game, then good luck to you. Life is about finding a passion, and as long as that passion doesn't involve the harming of other lifeforms, then I say go for it. Bendito;

Bendito <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8nin6h$8ci$[email hidden]...

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> Jan Verschueren wrote in message ... > >In what way? > > > >Perspective as in how big a role one can allow a "game" to play in life, > >perhaps? -Who are you to judge that? > > I've never understood people who enjoying pissing on other people's > parades. If you want to devote your life to a game, then good luck to you. > Life is about finding a passion, and as long as that passion doesn't

involve > the harming of other lifeforms, then I say go for it. > > Bendito; > True. It seems the people who most often say "Get a life" are the ones who are unsure of the value of their own pursuits. Live and let live and enjoy what you do. Stephen

David G Fisher wrote in message ... >Nobody's pissing on anyone's parade. The problem is that a small group of >people's fanaticism for one particular sim often makes it very difficult to >have an open, informative discussion about car simulators here at r.a.s. I wrote a post earlier today in the war-historical forum. I feel it's worth quoting here: *********** There is nothing surprising about flame wars when it comes to quality games. For crappy games, everyone generally agrees on their crapiness, it's plainly obvious even to someone as thick as Prince George (who's as thick as the big-print version of the complete works of Charles Dickens). But quality tends to polarise a significant section of the community into two camps: a) The first camp absolutely adore the game, and pounce on any (justifiable or not) criticism of it. Their tunnel vision leads them to use flaming as a security blanket. b) The second camp absolutely hate the success of the game. They are somehow jealous of it, and it's their contrarian and (probably) misanthropic natures which lead them down the path of flaming. The problem then is when there is justified criticism of the game by the level-headed community, Camp A starts the flames and Camp B responds in kind, or when there is justified praising of the game, Camp B starts the flames and Camp A responds in kind. Camp A thinks that even level-headed criticism is Camp B behaviour, while Camp B thinks that even level-headed praise is Camp A behaviour. This particular group, though, remains relatively free of these camp members, plus there's quite a bit of humour and sarcasm which can be misconstrued as camp behaviour. All this talk about camps and I'm not feeling the least bit campy. :) ************* Now I've found that r.a.s. displays a little more "camp" behaviour than war-historical, but there is still a lot of decent discussion here. I think you may have a hyper-neural reaction to seeing the words: "It's good, but it's no GPL." I suggest you get that fixed right away! A few laps at Spa in a Lotus will do you the world of good. Bendito;

Nobody's pissing on anyone's parade. The problem is that a small group of people's fanaticism for one particular sim often makes it very difficult to have an open, informative discussion about car simulators here at r.a.s. David G Fisher "Bendito" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8nin6h$8ci$[email hidden]...

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> Jan Verschueren wrote in message ... > >In what way? > > > >Perspective as in how big a role one can allow a "game" to play in life, > >perhaps? -Who are you to judge that? > > I've never understood people who enjoying pissing on other people's > parades. If you want to devote your life to a game, then good luck to you. > Life is about finding a passion, and as long as that passion doesn't

involve > the harming of other lifeforms, then I say go for it. > > Bendito; > >

Nobody's pissing on anyone's parade. The problem is that a small group of people's fanaticism for one particular sim often makes it very difficult to have an open, informative discussion about car simulators here at r.a.s. David G Fisher "Bendito" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8nin6h$8ci$[email hidden]...

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> Jan Verschueren wrote in message ... > >In what way? > > > >Perspective as in how big a role one can allow a "game" to play in life, > >perhaps? -Who are you to judge that? > > I've never understood people who enjoying pissing on other people's > parades. If you want to devote your life to a game, then good luck to you. > Life is about finding a passion, and as long as that passion doesn't

involve > the harming of other lifeforms, then I say go for it. > > Bendito; > >

Well, I'm no expert, but to me the SBK 2000 tracks are the best i've seen. I'm sure you'd agree, Laguna Seca is stunning. From my experience of watching F1, the F1 2000 Hockenheim looks way too bumpy. Take a look at http://www.raisport.rai.it/eventi/f199/germania/04.jpg which is a photo from Hockenheim, and shows what looks to me (it's a little hard to tell from this shot) like the section straight after turn one. You can see the track here is totally flat with no elevation changes. The bumps are probably less than a few inches high. "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Ok, the only tracks I've run are Imola, Hockenheim, Interlagos, Indy, and > Adelaide. The bumps drive me crazy at Interlagos and Hockenheim, butpeople > have responded that it's pretty true to life... So, I don't know whatelse to > say. I don't have GP3 yet, so I can't compare. How does GP3 and F1 2Kcompare > to SBK(not 2000) for track accuracy? That one I have. > > Eldred

On another note, in a recent celeb chat at RTL f1 news site (it's a german tv station), Niki Lauda said he had no time for playing racing simulations, and when someone mentioned gp3 as the new reference sim he said he would check it out. I'm pretty interested to hear his view on the product. Cheers, Uwe -- Uwe Schuerkamp http://www.schuerkamp.de/ GnuPG Fingerprint: 2093 20B8 B861 9358 A356 B01A E145 9249 5D27 33EA PGP Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

In article <9n9n5.5288$[email hidden]>, Simon Brown <[email hidden]> wrote: >Well, I'm no expert, but to me the SBK 2000 tracks are the best i've seen. >I'm sure you'd agree, Laguna Seca is stunning. > I agree completely. The SBK track graphics are beautiful, I wish we could have those in a modern f1 sim. So what does everybody think of WSC and RS3? Are those the ones to beat? Uwe -- Uwe Schuerkamp http://www.schuerkamp.de/ GnuPG Fingerprint: 2093 20B8 B861 9358 A356 B01A E145 9249 5D27 33EA PGP Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

In article <kdjn5.874$[email hidden]>, "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> writes: >Take a look at the screenshot i've attached (sorry about including a file >but my stupid web page is down). This is the same section of track as shown >in that photo, and see how exagerated the bumps are? It shows up as garbage on my newsreader(stupid AOL), but I'll take your word for it. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +51.31 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

He will probably hate it. Every time they used to do a "virtual lap" before each GP using MGPRS2, with Marc Surer driving (this is on RTL), he could barely keep it on the road. A racer is not necessarily a sim-racer, as has been often said. Stephen Uwe Schuerkamp <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > On another note, in a recent celeb chat at RTL f1 news site > (it's a german tv station), Niki Lauda said he had no time for > playing racing simulations, and when someone mentioned gp3 as > the new reference sim he said he would check it out. I'm pretty > interested to hear his view on the product. > > Cheers, > > Uwe > > > -- > Uwe Schuerkamp http://www.schuerkamp.de/ > GnuPG Fingerprint: 2093 20B8 B861 9358 A356 B01A E145 9249 5D27 33EA > PGP Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61