Re: NASCAR Heat - the controller/config "issue"

I *really* like Nascar Heat, but... Ed Martin wrote: > > - Go to the web site for your wheel manufacturer & download the latest > drivers. Install them. It's always a good idea to uninstall any/all older > drivers first. (FYI, so far, we have found that reinstalling drivers > ultimately fixes almost all of the controller issues that have come up.) I *am* the manufacturer of my pedals! > - Make sure that whatever controller you want to use for Heat is listed > first in the list if controllers in the Game Controllers app in Windows. My pedals have to go on device #2 - at least until I get them wired into my Force RS. > If anyone has found other settings/adjustments that work for particular > wheels, PLEASE post them in this thread. I really wish there was some way to support home-built input devices, so that they don't have to be cobbled onto manufactured devices. -- Pat Dotson

Thanks for your reply. It is perfectly understandable and the right choice to use the Direct Input API, but does that rule out the possibility to support axis on different devices (which are detected and calibrate correctly in windows) ? I don't think i'm able to write a windows driver for my homebuilt wheels and pedals and if they are entered in the windows game controller panel they're always 2 gaming devices, primary and secondary. Many simracing enthusiasts have spent hours building their own wheels and many are based on being essentially 2 game controllers to ensure maximum compatibility with older software like GP2, GP2.5 and the ICR racing series. Would be a shame if I had to connect another (not half as good) controller everytime I want to play NASCAR Heat (which will be the case very, very often <g>) cheers, --- Alexander Marx mailo:[email hidden] > - NASCAR Heat, unlike other NASCAR & F1 games to-date, uses the built in > Windows support for game controllers. Why? Because that is the best wayto > assure compatibility across as many controllers as possible - past,present > and future. If it works with Windows, it works with NASCAR Heat.

There have been quite a few posts/threads regarding issues with steering wheels. Let me take a stab at summarizing: - NASCAR Heat, unlike other NASCAR & F1 games to-date, uses the built in Windows support for game controllers. Why? Because that is the best way to assure compatibility across as many controllers as possible - past, present and future. If it works with Windows, it works with NASCAR Heat. One person on r.a.s. accused of us being sloppy & lazy. I take exception to that - big time. It was actually a real pain in the butt to use the Windows drivers & make them work well; it was more work for us to do it that way, but in the end, it makes it work for the largest possible audience. - What that means to you is that the controller needs to be configured & calibrated in Windows/Control Panel/Game Controllers. It also means that you must have the correct drivers for your wheel (or joystick) installed in Windows. I sent out that preemptive "How to get ready for NASCAR Heat" message last week for exactly this/that reason. Since most other games to-date have written/used their own in-game support for controllers, a lot of people may find that their controller isn't really working right in Windows. OK, so I've talked about "why", but let's get into the "how" (and I'll get into specific wheel issues below)... - Go to the web site for your wheel manufacturer & download the latest drivers. Install them. It's always a good idea to uninstall any/all older drivers first. (FYI, so far, we have found that reinstalling drivers ultimately fixes almost all of the controller issues that have come up.) - Make sure that whatever controller you want to use for Heat is listed first in the list if controllers in the Game Controllers app in Windows. - Configure, calibrate & test every axis & button on your controller in the Game Controller app in Windows. - Fire up Heat. Go into Options/Controls. Set each control as you want. The game will take its best shot at setting default controls, but it's not possible to do it right for everyone. So, reset each setting if you are having problems. - If the controller is still not as responsive as you want, you can go into the Advanced options under Controls. This will let you adjust things like overshoot & dead spot. - Another option if you're still not satisfied is to go back into the Game Controllers app in Windows and change the setting on the "poll with interrupts enabled" setting. - Another culprit is that many "drivers" for controllers come with "handy dandy" system tray apps that force controller configs - they essentially over-ride what you try to do in the game. So, if you have a wheel that has software like this (e.g. Thrustmaster, Microsoft, etc.), make sure that it is not forcing a particular button/axis configuration. Refer to the documentation or web site for your wheel to find out how to do/check this. PARTICULAR WHEELS - Thrustmaster. The issue here seems to reside with the driver and/or with the Thrustmaster controller app over-riding the controls. Download the latest drivers, uninstall the old one & install the new one. Calibrate & test every axis & button in the Windows Game Controller app. Go to the Thrustmaster app in the sys tray (you need to re-boot after reinstalling the drivers), and make sure it's not over-riding your configuration. Set each control in Heat under Options/Contols. - TSW. Go into the Game Controllers app in Windows.Click on "Add", then "Custom". Check the "Is a race car controller" box, then set the "Axis" & "Buttons" drop down appropriately. Give it a name and save it. If anyone has found other settings/adjustments that work for particular wheels, PLEASE post them in this thread. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ed Martin Executive Producer Hasbro Interactive

Thanks for being so available on the NG. NH is a great demo. My only issue is that I have 2 controllers properly calibrated and set up in windows but can only use 1 in NH. Will it ever be possible with a patch for instance to get the two controllers working. I can still play by switching my pedals out but I much prefer using my CH pedals. Chris On Mon, 14 Aug 2000 15:52:58 GMT, "Ed Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>There have been quite a few posts/threads regarding issues with steering >wheels. Let me take a stab at summarizing: > >- NASCAR Heat, unlike other NASCAR & F1 games to-date, uses the built in >Windows support for game controllers. Why? Because that is the best way to >assure compatibility across as many controllers as possible - past, present >and future. If it works with Windows, it works with NASCAR Heat. One >person on r.a.s. accused of us being sloppy & lazy. I take exception to >that - big time. It was actually a real pain in the butt to use the Windows >drivers & make them work well; it was more work for us to do it that way, >but in the end, it makes it work for the largest possible audience. > >- What that means to you is that the controller needs to be configured & >calibrated in Windows/Control Panel/Game Controllers. It also means that >you must have the correct drivers for your wheel (or joystick) installed in >Windows. I sent out that preemptive "How to get ready for NASCAR Heat" >message last week for exactly this/that reason. Since most other games >to-date have written/used their own in-game support for controllers, a lot >of people may find that their controller isn't really working right in >Windows. > >OK, so I've talked about "why", but let's get into the "how" (and I'll get >into specific wheel issues below)... > >- Go to the web site for your wheel manufacturer & download the latest >drivers. Install them. It's always a good idea to uninstall any/all older >drivers first. (FYI, so far, we have found that reinstalling drivers >ultimately fixes almost all of the controller issues that have come up.) > >- Make sure that whatever controller you want to use for Heat is listed >first in the list if controllers in the Game Controllers app in Windows. > >- Configure, calibrate & test every axis & button on your controller in the >Game Controller app in Windows. > >- Fire up Heat. Go into Options/Controls. Set each control as you want. >The game will take its best shot at setting default controls, but it's not >possible to do it right for everyone. So, reset each setting if you are >having problems. > >- If the controller is still not as responsive as you want, you can go into >the Advanced options under Controls. This will let you adjust things like >overshoot & dead spot. > >- Another option if you're still not satisfied is to go back into the Game >Controllers app in Windows and change the setting on the "poll with >interrupts enabled" setting. > >- Another culprit is that many "drivers" for controllers come with "handy >dandy" system tray apps that force controller configs - they essentially >over-ride what you try to do in the game. So, if you have a wheel that has >software like this (e.g. Thrustmaster, Microsoft, etc.), make sure that it >is not forcing a particular button/axis configuration. Refer to the >documentation or web site for your wheel to find out how to do/check this. > > >PARTICULAR WHEELS > >- Thrustmaster. The issue here seems to reside with the driver and/or with >the Thrustmaster controller app over-riding the controls. Download the >latest drivers, uninstall the old one & install the new one. Calibrate & >test every axis & button in the Windows Game Controller app. Go to the >Thrustmaster app in the sys tray (you need to re-boot after reinstalling the >drivers), and make sure it's not over-riding your configuration. Set each >control in Heat under Options/Contols. > >- TSW. Go into the Game Controllers app in Windows.Click on "Add", then >"Custom". Check the "Is a race car controller" box, then set the "Axis" & >"Buttons" drop down appropriately. Give it a name and save it. > > >If anyone has found other settings/adjustments that work for particular >wheels, PLEASE post them in this thread. > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Ed Martin >Executive Producer >Hasbro Interactive > >

I have a MS SideWinder Wheel installed as ID 1 and a Logitech Wingman Digital Joystick installed as ID 2. NH sees the Logitech joystick as ID 1. If I remove the Logitech joystick from the Game Controllers dialog, the SideWinder Wheel is recognized. Though I have a couple of theories on what is causing this, I feel the ultimate solution is to add a drop-down list, listing all available controllers, to NH's Controller options screen. This will eliminate the need for the desired controller to have ID 1, and in my case, avoid having to remove the Logitech driver from the Game Controllers dialog every time I play NH. "Ed Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:uBUl5.26957$[email hidden]... > There have been quite a few posts/threads regarding issues with steering > wheels. Let me take a stab at summarizing: >

Only available in Expert or Hardcore mode though. Jan. =--- Skotty Flynn wrote... > > There is a wheel lock adjustment in the garage (where you adjust your > car setup)

Ed, I posted an apology in a thread below, and made some observations on the comments you wrote. I think you are doing a great service for providing information here on RAS as many game developers simply do not - so thankyou. However, I think you need to be little careful with some of the statements you are making like. > - NASCAR Heat, unlike other NASCAR & F1 games to-date, uses the built in > Windows support for game controllers. I'm really struggling to find a Win32 based F1 or NASCAR game that did not support DirectInput or at least the Multimedia API's? If it was DOS based ie. GP2, ICR2, Nascar 2, then yes, it will not use DirectInput. Can you name at least one Win32 based F1 or NASCAR game that did not support DirectInput, but used their very own home grown driver (GPL and Nascar 99/2 don't count b/c they at least gave you both)??? Ed Martin <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:uBUl5.26957$[email hidden]... > There have been quite a few posts/threads regarding issues with steering > wheels. Let me take a stab at summarizing: > > - NASCAR Heat, unlike other NASCAR & F1 games to-date, uses the built in > Windows support for game controllers. Why? Because that is the best wayto > assure compatibility across as many controllers as possible - past,present > and future. If it works with Windows, it works with NASCAR Heat. One > person on r.a.s. accused of us being sloppy & lazy. I take exception to > that - big time. It was actually a real pain in the butt to use theWindows > drivers & make them work well; it was more work for us to do it that way, > but in the end, it makes it work for the largest possible audience. > > - What that means to you is that the controller needs to be configured & > calibrated in Windows/Control Panel/Game Controllers. It also means that > you must have the correct drivers for your wheel (or joystick) installedin

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> Windows. I sent out that preemptive "How to get ready for NASCAR Heat" > message last week for exactly this/that reason. Since most other games > to-date have written/used their own in-game support for controllers, a lot > of people may find that their controller isn't really working right in > Windows. > > OK, so I've talked about "why", but let's get into the "how" (and I'll get > into specific wheel issues below)... > > - Go to the web site for your wheel manufacturer & download the latest > drivers. Install them. It's always a good idea to uninstall any/all

older

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> drivers first. (FYI, so far, we have found that reinstalling drivers > ultimately fixes almost all of the controller issues that have come up.) > > - Make sure that whatever controller you want to use for Heat is listed > first in the list if controllers in the Game Controllers app in Windows. > > - Configure, calibrate & test every axis & button on your controller in

the

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> Game Controller app in Windows. > > - Fire up Heat. Go into Options/Controls. Set each control as you want. > The game will take its best shot at setting default controls, but it's not > possible to do it right for everyone. So, reset each setting if you are > having problems. > > - If the controller is still not as responsive as you want, you can go

into

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> the Advanced options under Controls. This will let you adjust things like > overshoot & dead spot. > > - Another option if you're still not satisfied is to go back into the Game > Controllers app in Windows and change the setting on the "poll with > interrupts enabled" setting. > > - Another culprit is that many "drivers" for controllers come with "handy > dandy" system tray apps that force controller configs - they essentially > over-ride what you try to do in the game. So, if you have a wheel that

has

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> software like this (e.g. Thrustmaster, Microsoft, etc.), make sure that it > is not forcing a particular button/axis configuration. Refer to the > documentation or web site for your wheel to find out how to do/check this. > > > PARTICULAR WHEELS > > - Thrustmaster. The issue here seems to reside with the driver and/or

with > the Thrustmaster controller app over-riding the controls. Download the > latest drivers, uninstall the old one & install the new one. Calibrate & > test every axis & button in the Windows Game Controller app. Go to the > Thrustmaster app in the sys tray (you need to re-boot after reinstallingthe

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> drivers), and make sure it's not over-riding your configuration. Set each > control in Heat under Options/Contols. > > - TSW. Go into the Game Controllers app in Windows.Click on "Add", then > "Custom". Check the "Is a race car controller" box, then set the "Axis" & > "Buttons" drop down appropriately. Give it a name and save it. > > > If anyone has found other settings/adjustments that work for particular > wheels, PLEASE post them in this thread. > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Ed Martin > Executive Producer > Hasbro Interactive > >

Ed, Is there a way to make the steering "tighter"......by that I mean that you turn the wheel a little less to make it turn just as much. In Nascar3 this is refered to as "wheel lock" in thier setups. How do I make similiar adjustments in Nascar Heat?

On Tue, 15 Aug 2000 00:42:02 GMT, "Jack B" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Ed, >Is there a way to make the steering "tighter"......by that I mean >that you turn the wheel a little less to make it turn just as much. >In Nascar3 this is refered to as "wheel lock" in thier setups. How do I >make similiar adjustments in Nascar Heat? There is a wheel lock adjustment in the garage (where you adjust your car setup) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Skotty Flynn "skotty20" Nascar-Racing-Sims.Com: http://www.nascar-racing-sims.com The Ultimate Sim Racing Directory: http://www.nascar-racing-sims.com/directory/

Jan, thanks for the suggestion; unfortunately, moving the Logitech to ID4 had no effect. Again, I would argue that adding a drop-down list that would allow users to select the desired device is the best way to go. Not only would it solve my problem; it would make it easier for all of those causal and new users that NH is aimed at to set up their controllers without having to play the ID switching game. I have never equated the terms "casual user" or "new user" with "DirectInput expert." The idea of a drop-down list of available controllers is not new: Its been around since Microsoft's original "Monster Truck Madness." Based on the demo; it is clear that MGI has found a winning formula that caters to the casual and new user. It would be a shame if NH faltered because it lacked a controller set up feature that is standard on most games today. "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Have you tried putting the Logitech on ID4 to get it "out of sight" ? > > Jan.

Have you tried putting the Logitech on ID4 to get it "out of sight" ? Jan. =--- Thomas R Vadney wrote... > I have a MS SideWinder Wheel installed as ID 1 <snip>

Errr... How did you ascertain this assumption HotDog? Why has GP3.exe got a DLL dependancies on DINPUT.DLL... Also check out this debug dump spat out by GP3... If you know anything about DirectInput you'll recognise that lines 00000004 to 00000008 are specific capability checks for the controller... Also check line 00000021. BTW, how do explain GP3 supporting Force Feedback devices without going through the DirectInput??? 00000000 0.00000000 [Gp3] Starting WinMain 00000001 0.00001680 [Gp3] Loading library 00000002 0.00959760 [Gp3] WM_ACTIVATE (active)(not minimized) 00000003 2.05258000 [Gp3] MMX Enabled 00000004 5.32955520 [Gp3] Device is Polled Device 00000005 5.32957280 [Gp3] Device doesn't support Saturation 00000006 5.32958880 [Gp3] Device doesn't support Pos/Neg Coefficients 00000007 5.32960320 [Gp3] Device doesn't support Pos Neg Saturation 00000008 5.32961680 [Gp3] Device doesn't support deadband 00000009 5.34329680 [Gp3] In ddraw_set_screen 00000010 5.34331360 [Gp3] No change in cooperative level 00000011 6.26337200 [Gp3] changed window size 00000012 6.26339920 [Gp3] ddraw_set_screen finished ok. 00000013 8.32238480 [Gp3] Bink initBink init completed 00000014 8.74448560 [Gp3] Bink setting dsound 00000015 38.79639840 [Gp3] Out of asm_win95_game - game thread 00000016 38.79641840 [Gp3] Posting message WM_DESTROY - game thread 00000017 38.79648080 [Gp3] Posted message WM_DESTROY - game thread 00000018 38.79810800 [Gp3] Main thread into win95_closedown(0) 00000019 38.79812480 [Gp3] in win95closedown -- main thread 00000020 38.79817920 [Gp3] shutdown timer - main thread 00000021 38.79819280 [Gp3] Closing DINPUT 00000022 38.79847600 [Gp3] Closing DDRAW 00000023 38.98477280 [Gp3] Couninitialise 00000024 38.98506080 [Gp3] closed directx - main thread 00000025 38.98509200 [Gp3] Main thread finishing win95 closedown(0) Oh and one more little experiment you could try - remove your controller from the Game Controllers list...Fire up GP3... If your theory is correct then GP3 should recognise your controller... Errrmm... maybe not - look at the following 2 lines taken from a debug dump from GP3 in this situation... 00000030 1831.27233440 [Gp3] No joysticks found -- closing dinput 00000031 1831.27235200 [Gp3] Closing DINPUT Buzzzzzzz.... Try again Hotdog.... The problem with GP3 is not that it's not using DirectInput - more like not using it properly in the controller config... Bring on the 3 Axis patch... <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Tue, 15 Aug 2000 00:12:38 GMT, "SeymourButts" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > > >I'm really struggling to find a Win32 based F1 or NASCAR game that didnot > >support DirectInput or at least the Multimedia API's? If it was DOSbased > >ie. GP2, ICR2, Nascar 2, then yes, it will not use DirectInput. Can you > >name at least one Win32 based F1 or NASCAR game that did not support > >DirectInput, but used their very own home grown driver (GPL and Nascar99/2

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> >don't count b/c they at least gave you both)??? > > > > > Yep try GP3 it doesnt use the windows DirectInput API it uses its own > config otptions which are the same options as GP2 used in DOS, now if > GC had done the correct thing like Nascar Heat does and used the > DirectInput system we wouldnt all be calling for a 3 axis fix for GP3 > > Hotdog

On Tue, 15 Aug 2000 00:12:38 GMT, "SeymourButts" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I'm really struggling to find a Win32 based F1 or NASCAR game that did not >support DirectInput or at least the Multimedia API's? If it was DOS based >ie. GP2, ICR2, Nascar 2, then yes, it will not use DirectInput. Can you >name at least one Win32 based F1 or NASCAR game that did not support >DirectInput, but used their very own home grown driver (GPL and Nascar 99/2 >don't count b/c they at least gave you both)??? >

Yep try GP3 it doesnt use the windows DirectInput API it uses its own config otptions which are the same options as GP2 used in DOS, now if GC had done the correct thing like Nascar Heat does and used the DirectInput system we wouldnt all be calling for a 3 axis fix for GP3 Hotdog

On Tue, 15 Aug 2000 11:48:42 +0200, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Only available in Expert or Hardcore mode though. Ah, wasnt aware of that. I dont expect anyone in here to be playing in normal mode anyway. :)

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> >Jan. >=--- >Skotty Flynn wrote... >> >> There is a wheel lock adjustment in the garage (where you adjust your >> car setup) >