Re: Driving Games and Gforce2

On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 11:03:24 -0700, "Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> wrote: >He talks about having screenshots, but we all >know how screenshots are, many people think FSAA looks very bad in many >racing games, despite the fact that the screenshots look a bit better. What? As far as I know, everyone who has seen the V5's FSAA in action will tell you that the screenshots do *not* do the game in motion justice, i.e. they do *not* look as good as the actual game. The screenshots only show the reduced jaggies but they can not show the equally important removal of artifacts or the reduction of texture shimmering. >Ok here's the bottom line, they are both very good cards, while virtually >all magazines out there are rating the GeForce2 much higher than the V5, Yeah, these are the magazines that only run the "standard" benchmark set of Q3 and 3DMark2000. If you want some more real life numbers and pictures, check the V5 vs GF2 test at www.papdoc.net , which was done mostly on flight simulators. JanL

He bought a Voodoo5 5500 then? ::) In article <%sEm5.48154$[email hidden]>, "Todd Sorensen" <[email hidden]> wrote: > Sounds like somebody bought the wrong card and he's a littlepissy!!!!!

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> > -- > Todd S. > > "rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 21:08:39 GMT, "Jason"

<[email hidden]>

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> wrote: > > > > Hmm! Once more, which racing sims use Hdwe. T&L? > > GP3, SOS 1937 and Nascar Heat don't. > > Your wish list is wrong. > > > > Be a bit more specific. > > > > >Hmmm! > > > > > > 4x4 Evolution Terminal Reality/G.O.D. > > > AMA Superbike Motorsims > > > Colin McRae Rally 2 Codemasters > > > Demolition Racer Pitbull/Infogrames > > > Dogs of War Silicon Dreams/Talon Soft > > > Ferrari Acclaim > > > Grand Prix 3 Microprose > > > Insane Codemasters USA > > > Midnight GT Rage > > > Midtown Madness 2 Angel Studios/Microsoft > > > MotoCross Madness 2 Rainbow Studios/Microsoft Games > > > NASCAR Heat Micropose > > > NASCAR Racing 4 Papyrus/Sierra > > > Official Formula 1 Racing 99 Eidos > > > RC Racers Deluxe Sierra > > > Quake III Arena id Software/Activision > > > Spirit of Speed 1937 Broadsword Interactive/Hasbro Interactive > > > Test Drive 6 Pitbull/Infogrames > > > > > > > > > > >rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > >news:[email hidden]... > > >> What Hardware T&L featured racing sims are available? I haven't

seen > > >> any or heard of any in development. > > >> > > > > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

As I am about to buy a new computer, I thought I would look to this group for some advice on the best graphics card to buy, as the machine will be wholly for games. The CPU is a Athelon 900 with 256mb ram. I had wanted to buy a GForce2, but having seen the FSAA of the Voodoo 5500 I am now left undecided (although reports have suggest that the Voodoo is slower, but this might be down to the initial poor drivers). Perhaps someone who has used both, or has had great results with either could guide me. Thanks in anticipation. PJ

Hi Michael, if FSAA is really that important to you then the Voodoo 5 is the best choice, however to me Hardware T&L has a much larger effect on frame rate and image quality, since the V5 doesn't really do this, if your looking for a card that will last into next year, I think the GeForce2 has more staying power. Warren Reicho makes some good points possible, but by comparing the Riva 128 to a voodoo1 is totally irrelevant. We all know that 3Dfx was way ahead of them back then, so it makes me think that Warren is very biased more reason (but that is only a guess) He talks about having screenshots, but we all know how screenshots are, many people think FSAA looks very bad in many racing games, despite the fact that the screenshots look a bit better. We don't know if the screenshots of the GeForce were done on improperly setup systems (there are many options to improve quality in the Nvidia control panel) Ok here's the bottom line, they are both very good cards, while virtually all magazines out there are rating the GeForce2 much higher than the V5, there are also others in places like this newsgroup who claim the V5 is better. I personally believe that these ""can-do" features" (like T&L) that the GeForce2 has will make a big difference in the next six months. With current games being less of an issue. But guess what if you can find either of these cards for significantly less than the other card, I say go for it, there isn't that big of a difference. btw. there is a GeForce "MX" or something like that, that is between a GeForce 1 and 2 w\ Hardware T&L, I think you can get this card for around 100 US$ and is faster than a GeForce 1 in T&L mode. Since I know little about this card, if anyone has comments on it, speak up. Paul Jager <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ynym5.35230$[email hidden]... > As I am about to buy a new computer, I thought I would look to this group > for some advice on the best graphics card to buy, as the machine will be > wholly for games. The CPU is a Athelon 900 with 256mb ram. I had wanted to > buy a GForce2, but having seen the FSAA of the Voodoo 5500 I am now left > undecided (although reports have suggest that the Voodoo is slower, butthis

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> might be down to the initial poor drivers). > > Perhaps someone who has used both, or has had great results with either > could guide me. > > Thanks in anticipation. > > PJ > >

As far as I know (own experience), GeForce is faster mostly in Quake and 3DMark. Many other games, GOOD games, not a crap like "Incoming" or "Super Chix 76", run faster namely with Voodoo 5 ,except for the lower resolutions. Also, you can read a review at SimHQ.com with lots of screenshots and benchmarks. Do you remember the times, when Riva 128 was the major Voodoo 1 opponent ? Most of the people who bought Riva128 spilled tons of splutter argumenting it is the best. But they just justified the wasted money..... The "effect" or I don't know how to describe it..., "underwater' ? picture still the same, not dull ,but just grayed with dark points.. I can send you some screens to show what I mean. Weird trilinear filtering in GAMES , not benchmarks (!!!) ,and cunning and ugly mip-mapping - the best texture layed not parallel to edge of screen, but like a triangle ABC with the farther point B at the same distance when Voodoo changes texture, and A & C as lower corners of the screen. Yes, maybe I am not so good in english , and it is hard to understand , but I have the pictures - it's obvious which card is graphically more advanced. The main is not the number of "can-do" features, but the number of which really needed for serious gaming, and that reality of virtual words sometimes you live in. If you did not understand something, ask - and I'll try again. Do not do "flash" decisions. Cheers Warren [email hidden] "Paul Jager" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ynym5.35230$[email hidden]... > As I am about to buy a new computer, I thought I would look to this group > for some advice on the best graphics card to buy, as the machine will be > wholly for games. The CPU is a Athelon 900 with 256mb ram. I had wanted to > buy a GForce2, but having seen the FSAA of the Voodoo 5500 I am now left > undecided (although reports have suggest that the Voodoo is slower, butthis

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> might be down to the initial poor drivers). > > Perhaps someone who has used both, or has had great results with either > could guide me. > > Thanks in anticipation. > > PJ > >

Hello, Kai ! Mentioning Riva 128 I just wanted to say that all the old graphic bugs in NVidia's cards are still the same. Some time ago I feeled little disappointment about my getting older Voodoo 3 and several times brought different variants of TNT2 from work to home. Then I went testing. Guys, how can't you see this OBVIOUS(!!!!!!!) quality degradation in 95% of games ???!!! And the next morning I took TNT's back..... I did it several times, tried various versions of drivers , other revisions of boards from one manufacturer and the boards from different manufactures. For now it is just two games that looks better with NVidia (which I played) 1. Homeworld 2. Nocturne That's ALL !!! And it was just because of 32bit color depth missing with Voodoo 3. T&L ??? We'll see...If game developers will use it just in some shit like MDK 2 - then I don't need it The people who make good sims, make good SIMS, not a Rayman of somewhat . The people who make good sims, barely have millions of budget to afford programming much T&L( hyperbolic ) Want a discussion ? warren [email hidden] "Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:0HAm5.46304$[email hidden]... > Hi Michael, if FSAA is really that important to you then the Voodoo 5 isthe > best choice, however to me Hardware T&L has a much larger effect on frame > rate and image quality, since the V5 doesn't really do this, if yourlooking > for a card that will last into next year, I think the GeForce2 has more > staying power. > > Warren Reicho makes some good points possible, but by comparing the Riva128 > to a voodoo1 is totally irrelevant. We all know that 3Dfx was way ahead of > them back then, so it makes me think that Warren is very biased morereason

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> (but that is only a guess) He talks about having screenshots, but we all > know how screenshots are, many people think FSAA looks very bad in many > racing games, despite the fact that the screenshots look a bit better. We > don't know if the screenshots of the GeForce were done on improperly setup > systems (there are many options to improve quality in the Nvidia control > panel) > > Ok here's the bottom line, they are both very good cards, while virtually > all magazines out there are rating the GeForce2 much higher than the V5, > there are also others in places like this newsgroup who claim the V5 is > better. I personally believe that these ""can-do" features" (like T&L)

that > the GeForce2 has will make a big difference in the next six months. With > current games being less of an issue. But guess what if you can findeither > of these cards for significantly less than the other card, I say go forit,

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> there isn't that big of a difference. > > btw. there is a GeForce "MX" or something like that, that is between a > GeForce 1 and 2 w\ Hardware T&L, I think you can get this card for around > 100 US$ and is faster than a GeForce 1 in T&L mode. Since I know little > about this card, if anyone has comments on it, speak up. > > > > > Paul Jager <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ynym5.35230$[email hidden]... > > As I am about to buy a new computer, I thought I would look to this

group > > for some advice on the best graphics card to buy, as the machine will be > > wholly for games. The CPU is a Athelon 900 with 256mb ram. I had wantedto

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> > buy a GForce2, but having seen the FSAA of the Voodoo 5500 I am now left > > undecided (although reports have suggest that the Voodoo is slower, but > this > > might be down to the initial poor drivers). > > > > Perhaps someone who has used both, or has had great results with either > > could guide me. > > > > Thanks in anticipation. > > > > PJ > > > > > >

Hello, Kai ! Mentioning Riva 128 I just wanted to say that all the old graphic bugs in NVidia's cards are still the same. Some time ago I feeled little disappointment about my getting older Voodoo 3 and several times brought different variants of TNT2 from work to home. Then I went testing. Guys, how can't you see this OBVIOUS(!!!!!!!) quality degradation in 95% of games ???!!! And the next morning I took TNT's back..... I did it several times, tried various versions of drivers , other revisions of boards from one manufacturer and the boards from different manufactures. For now it is just two games that looks better with NVidia (which I played) 1. Homeworld 2. Nocturne That's ALL !!! And it was just because of 32bit color depth missing with Voodoo 3. T&L ??? We'll see...If game developers will use it just in some shit like MDK 2 - then I don't need it The people who make good sims, make good SIMS, not a Rayman of somewhat . The people who make good sims, barely have millions of budget to afford programming much T&L( hyperbolic ) Want a discussion ? warren [email hidden] "Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:0HAm5.46304$[email hidden]... > Hi Michael, if FSAA is really that important to you then the Voodoo 5 isthe > best choice, however to me Hardware T&L has a much larger effect on frame > rate and image quality, since the V5 doesn't really do this, if yourlooking > for a card that will last into next year, I think the GeForce2 has more > staying power. > > Warren Reicho makes some good points possible, but by comparing the Riva128 > to a voodoo1 is totally irrelevant. We all know that 3Dfx was way ahead of > them back then, so it makes me think that Warren is very biased morereason

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> (but that is only a guess) He talks about having screenshots, but we all > know how screenshots are, many people think FSAA looks very bad in many > racing games, despite the fact that the screenshots look a bit better. We > don't know if the screenshots of the GeForce were done on improperly setup > systems (there are many options to improve quality in the Nvidia control > panel) > > Ok here's the bottom line, they are both very good cards, while virtually > all magazines out there are rating the GeForce2 much higher than the V5, > there are also others in places like this newsgroup who claim the V5 is > better. I personally believe that these ""can-do" features" (like T&L)

that > the GeForce2 has will make a big difference in the next six months. With > current games being less of an issue. But guess what if you can findeither > of these cards for significantly less than the other card, I say go forit,

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> there isn't that big of a difference. > > btw. there is a GeForce "MX" or something like that, that is between a > GeForce 1 and 2 w\ Hardware T&L, I think you can get this card for around > 100 US$ and is faster than a GeForce 1 in T&L mode. Since I know little > about this card, if anyone has comments on it, speak up. > > > > > Paul Jager <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ynym5.35230$[email hidden]... > > As I am about to buy a new computer, I thought I would look to this

group > > for some advice on the best graphics card to buy, as the machine will be > > wholly for games. The CPU is a Athelon 900 with 256mb ram. I had wantedto

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> > buy a GForce2, but having seen the FSAA of the Voodoo 5500 I am now left > > undecided (although reports have suggest that the Voodoo is slower, but > this > > might be down to the initial poor drivers). > > > > Perhaps someone who has used both, or has had great results with either > > could guide me. > > > > Thanks in anticipation. > > > > PJ > > > > > >

I put up a review of both of them using flight simulators and various other benchmarks. www.papadoc.net http://www.papadoc.net/Voodoo_vs_Geforce2.htm I think its a very good review...but Im pretty biased...hehe PAPA DOC

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>As I am about to buy a new computer, I thought I would look to this group >for some advice on the best graphics card to buy, as the machine will be >wholly for games. The CPU is a Athelon 900 with 256mb ram. I had wanted to >buy a GForce2, but having seen the FSAA of the Voodoo 5500 I am now left >undecided (although reports have suggest that the Voodoo is slower, but this >might be down to the initial poor drivers). > >Perhaps someone who has used both, or has had great results with either >could guide me. > >Thanks in anticipation. > >PJ > >

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand Voodoo 5 vs Geforce Shootout http://www.papadoc.net/Voodoo_vs_Geforce2.htm Flanker Target Grand Prix Legends Crash Test Dummy Aim-120 Propellent Addict Infamous Pink Flamingo Pilot...<VBG> Rants, Bullshit and Help Guides availible at www.papadoc.net

well you have turned up all the options in the Nvidia control panel? Those options make a big difference. Again I really wouldn't talk to much about GeForce Vs. Voodoo5 without extensive testing, I haven't done this, but then again I'm talking more about future value, in which I think Nvidia has the edge. FWIW I'm running Nascar Heat on my TNT1 16 MB (STB Velocity) at 1024xwhatever and everything cranked and running about 32 fps, so to me I feel that the Nvidia cards have a very long life span. Warren Reicho <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8neng2$ah9$[email hidden]... > Hello, Kai ! > Mentioning Riva 128 I just wanted to say that all the old graphic bugs in > NVidia's cards are still the same. Some time ago I feeled little > disappointment about my getting older Voodoo 3 and several times brought > different variants of TNT2 from work to home. Then I went testing. > Guys, how can't you see this OBVIOUS(!!!!!!!) quality degradation in 95%of > games ???!!! > And the next morning I took TNT's back..... I did it several times, tried > various versions of drivers , other revisions of boards from one > manufacturer and the boards from different manufactures. > For now it is just two games that looks better with NVidia (which Iplayed)

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> 1. Homeworld > 2. Nocturne > That's ALL !!! > And it was just because of 32bit color depth missing with Voodoo 3. > T&L ??? We'll see...If game developers will use it just in some shit like > MDK 2 - then I don't need it > The people who make good sims, make good SIMS, not a Rayman of somewhat . > The people who make good sims, barely have millions of budget to afford > programming much T&L( hyperbolic ) > Want a discussion ? > > warren > [email hidden] > > > "Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:0HAm5.46304$[email hidden]... > > Hi Michael, if FSAA is really that important to you then the Voodoo 5 is > the > > best choice, however to me Hardware T&L has a much larger effect on

frame

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> > rate and image quality, since the V5 doesn't really do this, if your > looking > > for a card that will last into next year, I think the GeForce2 has more > > staying power. > > > > Warren Reicho makes some good points possible, but by comparing the Riva > 128 > > to a voodoo1 is totally irrelevant. We all know that 3Dfx was way ahead

of > > them back then, so it makes me think that Warren is very biased more > reason > > (but that is only a guess) He talks about having screenshots, but we all > > know how screenshots are, many people think FSAA looks very bad in many > > racing games, despite the fact that the screenshots look a bit better.We > > don't know if the screenshots of the GeForce were done on improperlysetup > > systems (there are many options to improve quality in the Nvidia control > > panel) > > > > Ok here's the bottom line, they are both very good cards, whilevirtually

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> > all magazines out there are rating the GeForce2 much higher than the V5, > > there are also others in places like this newsgroup who claim the V5 is > > better. I personally believe that these ""can-do" features" (like T&L) > that > > the GeForce2 has will make a big difference in the next six months. With > > current games being less of an issue. But guess what if you can find > either > > of these cards for significantly less than the other card, I say go for > it, > > there isn't that big of a difference. > > > > btw. there is a GeForce "MX" or something like that, that is between a > > GeForce 1 and 2 w\ Hardware T&L, I think you can get this card for

around

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> > 100 US$ and is faster than a GeForce 1 in T&L mode. Since I know little > > about this card, if anyone has comments on it, speak up. > > > > > > > > > > Paul Jager <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:ynym5.35230$[email hidden]... > > > As I am about to buy a new computer, I thought I would look to this > group > > > for some advice on the best graphics card to buy, as the machine will

be > > > wholly for games. The CPU is a Athelon 900 with 256mb ram. I hadwanted > to > > > buy a GForce2, but having seen the FSAA of the Voodoo 5500 I am nowleft > > > undecided (although reports have suggest that the Voodoo is slower,but > > this > > > might be down to the initial poor drivers). > > > > > > Perhaps someone who has used both, or has had great results witheither

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> > > could guide me. > > > > > > Thanks in anticipation. > > > > > > PJ > > > > > > > > > > > >

I thought both WSC and N4 are going to have Hardware T&L rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 11:03:24 -0700, "Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Hi Michael, if FSAA is really that important to you then the Voodoo 5 isthe > >best choice, however to me Hardware T&L has a much larger effect on frame > >rate and image quality, since the V5 doesn't really do this, > > What Hardware T&L featured racing sims are available? I haven't seen > any or heard of any in development. >

On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 13:32:26 -0500, rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote: >What Hardware T&L featured racing sims are available? I haven't seen >any or heard of any in development. Nascar 4? /Magnus

Nascar 4 rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 21:08:39 GMT, "Jason" <[email hidden]>wrote:

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> > Hmm! Once more, which racing sims use Hdwe. T&L? > GP3, SOS 1937 and Nascar Heat don't. > Your wish list is wrong. > > Be a bit more specific. > > >Hmmm! > > > > 4x4 Evolution Terminal Reality/G.O.D. > > AMA Superbike Motorsims > > Colin McRae Rally 2 Codemasters > > Demolition Racer Pitbull/Infogrames > > Dogs of War Silicon Dreams/Talon Soft > > Ferrari Acclaim > > Grand Prix 3 Microprose > > Insane Codemasters USA > > Midnight GT Rage > > Midtown Madness 2 Angel Studios/Microsoft > > MotoCross Madness 2 Rainbow Studios/Microsoft Games > > NASCAR Heat Micropose > > NASCAR Racing 4 Papyrus/Sierra > > Official Formula 1 Racing 99 Eidos > > RC Racers Deluxe Sierra > > Quake III Arena id Software/Activision > > Spirit of Speed 1937 Broadsword Interactive/Hasbro Interactive > > Test Drive 6 Pitbull/Infogrames > > > > > > >rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:[email hidden]... > >> What Hardware T&L featured racing sims are available? I haven't seen > >> any or heard of any in development. > >> > > >

Hmmm! 4x4 Evolution Terminal Reality/G.O.D. AMA Superbike Motorsims Colin McRae Rally 2 Codemasters Demolition Racer Pitbull/Infogrames Dogs of War Silicon Dreams/Talon Soft Ferrari Acclaim Grand Prix 3 Microprose Insane Codemasters USA Midnight GT Rage Midtown Madness 2 Angel Studios/Microsoft MotoCross Madness 2 Rainbow Studios/Microsoft Games NASCAR Heat Micropose NASCAR Racing 4 Papyrus/Sierra Official Formula 1 Racing 99 Eidos RC Racers Deluxe Sierra Quake III Arena id Software/Activision Spirit of Speed 1937 Broadsword Interactive/Hasbro Interactive Test Drive 6 Pitbull/Infogrames But as I don't just play racing games here's the full list of Hardware T&L Games. 4x4 Evolution Terminal Reality/G.O.D. AMA Superbike Motorsims B-17 Flying Fortress Micropose Black and White Lionhead/EA Blademasters Ronin Entertainment/Ripcord Games Borderzone Housemarque/Infogrames Entertainment Colin McRae Rally 2 Codemasters Commanche 4 Nova Logic Combat Flight Simulator 2: WWII Pacific Theater Microsoft Crimson Skies Microsoft Dark Reign 2 Pandemic/Activision Demolition Racer Pitbull/Infogrames Dogs of War Silicon Dreams/Talon Soft Dragonflight Grolier Interactive Dragon Rider Ubi Soft Drakkan 2 Surreal/Psygnosis Dungeon Siege Gas Powered Games/Microsoft Ecstasy Engine Infogrames Entertainment Escape from Monkey Island Lucasarts Exile Crytek Experience The Whole Experience Evolva Computer Artworks/Interplay Far Gate Thrushwave/Microids Ferrari Acclaim FIFA 2001 EAC/EA Force Commander Ronin Entertainment/Lucas Arts Freelancer Digital Anvil/Microsoft Galatea (Game Engine) Lightning Interactive Giants: Citizen Kabuto Planet Moon/Interplay Grand Prix 3 Microprose Halo Bungie Harn:Bloodline Auran/EA Heavy Metal F.A.K.K.2 Ritual/Gathering of Developers Hidden & Dangerous 2 Talon Soft Hitman: Codename 47 Eidos Homeworld: Cataclysm Relic/Sierra Hostile Waters Rage/Interplay Productions Insane Codemasters USA Knights Digital Infinity Legend of Blademasters Ripcord Games Lego Tech Demo Intelligent Games/Lego Lithtech2 Monolith Entertainment Max Payne Remedy/G.O.D. MAX-FX (Game Engine) Remedy Entertainment MDK2 Bloware/Interplay Mech Commander 2 Microsoft Mechwarrior 4 Microsoft Messiah Shiny/Interplay Midnight GT Rage Midtown Madness 2 Angel Studios/Microsoft Mig Alley Interplay MotoCross Madness 2 Rainbow Studios/Microsoft Games NASCAR Heat Micropose NASCAR Racing 4 Papyrus/Sierra Nightfall Altor Sys No One Lives Forever Monolith Official Formula 1 Racing 99 Eidos Oni Bungie Pac-Man 3D Creative Asylum/Hasbro Panzer Elite (Expansion Pack) S.S.I./Psygnosis Paradox Creative Asylum RC Racers Deluxe Sierra Quake III Arena id Software/Activision Real Myst Cyan/Mattel Return to Castle Wolfenstein Grey Matter/Activision Rock SingleTrac/Infogrames Entertainment Sacrifice Shiny/Interplay Sanity: Aiken's Artifact Fox Interactive Shadow Company 2 Sinister Games Shadowman Acclaim Sierra Sports Maximum Pool Sierra Silex Act-3D Soldier of Fortune Raven/Activision Spirit of Speed 1937 Broadsword Interactive/Hasbro Interactive Star Wars: Obi Wan Lucasarts Star Trek Voyager: Elite Force Ravensoft/Activision Steel Whisper Orange Games Stonekeep 2: Godmaker Interplay Swat 3: Battle Plan Sierra Swat 3:Special Edition Sierra Sydney 2000 Attention to Detail/Eidos Team Fortress 2: Brotherhood of Arms Valve/Sierra Terminator 3D Orange Games Test Drive 6 Pitbull/Infogrames Titanium Angels Sci Tribes 2 Dynamix/Sierra Ultima Online 2 Origin/Electronic Arts Ultima Worlds Online: Origin Origin Ultimate Bass Fishing 2000 Engineering Animation/EA Vampire: The Masquerade Nihilistic/ Activision WarBirds III Interactive Magic Warcraft 3 Blizzard Werewolf: The Apocalypse Dreamforge/American Softworks Corp. X-Plane Laminar Research rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > What Hardware T&L featured racing sims are available? I haven't seen > any or heard of any in development. >

Sounds like somebody bought the wrong card and he's a little pissy!!!!! -- Todd S. "rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 21:08:39 GMT, "Jason" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > Hmm! Once more, which racing sims use Hdwe. T&L? > GP3, SOS 1937 and Nascar Heat don't. > Your wish list is wrong. > > Be a bit more specific. > > >Hmmm! > > > > 4x4 Evolution Terminal Reality/G.O.D. > > AMA Superbike Motorsims > > Colin McRae Rally 2 Codemasters > > Demolition Racer Pitbull/Infogrames > > Dogs of War Silicon Dreams/Talon Soft > > Ferrari Acclaim > > Grand Prix 3 Microprose > > Insane Codemasters USA > > Midnight GT Rage > > Midtown Madness 2 Angel Studios/Microsoft > > MotoCross Madness 2 Rainbow Studios/Microsoft Games > > NASCAR Heat Micropose > > NASCAR Racing 4 Papyrus/Sierra > > Official Formula 1 Racing 99 Eidos > > RC Racers Deluxe Sierra > > Quake III Arena id Software/Activision > > Spirit of Speed 1937 Broadsword Interactive/Hasbro Interactive > > Test Drive 6 Pitbull/Infogrames > > > > > > >rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:[email hidden]... > >> What Hardware T&L featured racing sims are available? I haven't seen > >> any or heard of any in development. > >> > > >

I've had both, and the only game out of about 10 or 12 tested that actually looked better was GP3 (although slower). Strangely Voyager: Elite Force seemed faster in 1600x1200 32bit on the Voodoo but I think this will be different when T&L is fully implemented in the full game. Amongst others we tested were GPL,MCM2,NFSPU etc... My personnel preference was towards the GF2 which was not only faster but IMO looked better (side by side V5 on 19"Mon GF2 on a 17"), so I've resigned the V5 to my work machine and the GF2 is fitted snuggly in my home machine (K7 700,128Mb). The final thing that swayed me was most of the games I'm waiting for all support hardware T&L. CM2, Halo,Sacrifice ect.... My best advice is listen to nobody (even me:) ) and try and find somewhere/someone that has both to demo and make your own mind up, as they both are good cards it just happens that the GF2 is better.... Doh! sorry couldn't resist :0) Cheers , Jason Paul Jager <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ynym5.35230$[email hidden]... > As I am about to buy a new computer, I thought I would look to this group > for some advice on the best graphics card to buy, as the machine will be > wholly for games. The CPU is a Athelon 900 with 256mb ram. I had wanted to > buy a GForce2, but having seen the FSAA of the Voodoo 5500 I am now left > undecided (although reports have suggest that the Voodoo is slower, butthis

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> might be down to the initial poor drivers). > > Perhaps someone who has used both, or has had great results with either > could guide me. > > Thanks in anticipation. > > PJ > >

> Be a bit more specific. ROFL!!

I was referring to some comments that in GPL FSAA seems to pop up, instead of always being there. maybe it was just someone's system. Jan Loebzien <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 11:03:24 -0700, "Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >He talks about having screenshots, but we all > >know how screenshots are, many people think FSAA looks very bad in many > >racing games, despite the fact that the screenshots look a bit better. > > What? As far as I know, everyone who has seen the V5's FSAA > in action will tell you that the screenshots do *not* do the game in > motion justice, i.e. they do *not* look as good as the actual game. > The screenshots only show the reduced jaggies but they can not > show the equally important removal of artifacts or the reduction of > texture shimmering. > > >Ok here's the bottom line, they are both very good cards, while virtually > >all magazines out there are rating the GeForce2 much higher than the V5, > > Yeah, these are the magazines that only run the "standard" benchmark > set of Q3 and 3DMark2000. If you want some more real life numbers and > pictures, check the V5 vs GF2 test at www.papdoc.net , which was done > mostly on flight simulators. > > > JanL

secondly I read that papa doc review, and thought it was very good. I did think it was biased however, in that when the V5 was slower it was stated that the game doesn't like V5's for some reason, but when the Ge was slower it was because Nvidias drivers were bad. So it wasn't 3Dfx's fault that Flanker was slower on their card, but it was Nvidias fault in similar cases. Otherwise the #'s don't lie. they are both very fast, and in D3D GeForce usually seems faster than V5, I would like to see more benchmarks in more variety of games. Jan Loebzien <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 11:03:24 -0700, "Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >He talks about having screenshots, but we all > >know how screenshots are, many people think FSAA looks very bad in many > >racing games, despite the fact that the screenshots look a bit better. > > What? As far as I know, everyone who has seen the V5's FSAA > in action will tell you that the screenshots do *not* do the game in > motion justice, i.e. they do *not* look as good as the actual game. > The screenshots only show the reduced jaggies but they can not > show the equally important removal of artifacts or the reduction of > texture shimmering. > > >Ok here's the bottom line, they are both very good cards, while virtually > >all magazines out there are rating the GeForce2 much higher than the V5, > > Yeah, these are the magazines that only run the "standard" benchmark > set of Q3 and 3DMark2000. If you want some more real life numbers and > pictures, check the V5 vs GF2 test at www.papdoc.net , which was done > mostly on flight simulators. > > > JanL

On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 16:08:27 -0700, "Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> wrote: >secondly I read that papa doc review, and thought it was very good. I did >think it was biased however, in that when the V5 was slower it was stated >that the game doesn't like V5's for some reason, but when the Ge was slower >it was because Nvidias drivers were bad. So it wasn't 3Dfx's fault that >Flanker was slower on their card, but it was Nvidias fault in similar cases. Not true, IIRC in the cases where V5 slowed down in the hi resolutions he also indicated a broken 3dfx driver. >Otherwise the #'s don't lie. they are both very fast, and in D3D GeForce >usually seems faster than V5, I would like to see more benchmarks in more >variety of games. Faster? If at all only by a margin in the tested games. And don't dorget that the V5 delivers far better image quality! As for variety, the games used are certainly closer to driving games (remember the topic of this thread?) than 3DMark2000. JanL

Lovely list...if only it meant something...its ripped right off the Nvidia website and basically they are full of shit. For instance...MiG Alley DOES NOT HAVE TnL...oops. PAPA DOC

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>Hmmm! > > 4x4 Evolution Terminal Reality/G.O.D. > AMA Superbike Motorsims > Colin McRae Rally 2 Codemasters > Demolition Racer Pitbull/Infogrames > Dogs of War Silicon Dreams/Talon Soft > Ferrari Acclaim > Grand Prix 3 Microprose > Insane Codemasters USA > Midnight GT Rage > Midtown Madness 2 Angel Studios/Microsoft > MotoCross Madness 2 Rainbow Studios/Microsoft Games > NASCAR Heat Micropose > NASCAR Racing 4 Papyrus/Sierra > Official Formula 1 Racing 99 Eidos > RC Racers Deluxe Sierra > Quake III Arena id Software/Activision > Spirit of Speed 1937 Broadsword Interactive/Hasbro Interactive > Test Drive 6 Pitbull/Infogrames > >But as I don't just play racing games here's the full list of Hardware T&L >Games. > > 4x4 Evolution Terminal Reality/G.O.D. > AMA Superbike Motorsims > B-17 Flying Fortress Micropose > Black and White Lionhead/EA > Blademasters Ronin Entertainment/Ripcord Games > Borderzone Housemarque/Infogrames Entertainment > Colin McRae Rally 2 Codemasters > Commanche 4 Nova Logic > Combat Flight Simulator 2: WWII Pacific Theater Microsoft > Crimson Skies Microsoft > Dark Reign 2 Pandemic/Activision > Demolition Racer Pitbull/Infogrames > Dogs of War Silicon Dreams/Talon Soft > Dragonflight Grolier Interactive > Dragon Rider Ubi Soft > Drakkan 2 Surreal/Psygnosis > Dungeon Siege Gas Powered Games/Microsoft > Ecstasy Engine Infogrames Entertainment > Escape from Monkey Island Lucasarts > Exile Crytek > Experience The Whole Experience > Evolva Computer Artworks/Interplay > Far Gate Thrushwave/Microids > Ferrari Acclaim > FIFA 2001 EAC/EA > Force Commander Ronin Entertainment/Lucas Arts > Freelancer Digital Anvil/Microsoft > Galatea (Game Engine) Lightning Interactive > Giants: Citizen Kabuto Planet Moon/Interplay > Grand Prix 3 Microprose > Halo Bungie > Harn:Bloodline Auran/EA > Heavy Metal F.A.K.K.2 Ritual/Gathering of Developers > Hidden & Dangerous 2 Talon Soft > Hitman: Codename 47 Eidos > Homeworld: Cataclysm Relic/Sierra > Hostile Waters Rage/Interplay Productions > Insane Codemasters USA > Knights Digital Infinity > Legend of Blademasters Ripcord Games > Lego Tech Demo Intelligent Games/Lego > Lithtech2 Monolith Entertainment > Max Payne Remedy/G.O.D. > MAX-FX (Game Engine) Remedy Entertainment > MDK2 Bloware/Interplay > Mech Commander 2 Microsoft > Mechwarrior 4 Microsoft > Messiah Shiny/Interplay > Midnight GT Rage > Midtown Madness 2 Angel Studios/Microsoft > Mig Alley Interplay > MotoCross Madness 2 Rainbow Studios/Microsoft Games > NASCAR Heat Micropose > NASCAR Racing 4 Papyrus/Sierra > Nightfall Altor Sys > No One Lives Forever Monolith > Official Formula 1 Racing 99 Eidos > Oni Bungie > Pac-Man 3D Creative Asylum/Hasbro > Panzer Elite (Expansion Pack) S.S.I./Psygnosis > Paradox Creative Asylum > RC Racers Deluxe Sierra > Quake III Arena id Software/Activision > Real Myst Cyan/Mattel > Return to Castle Wolfenstein Grey Matter/Activision > Rock SingleTrac/Infogrames Entertainment > Sacrifice Shiny/Interplay > Sanity: Aiken's Artifact Fox Interactive > Shadow Company 2 Sinister Games > Shadowman Acclaim > Sierra Sports Maximum Pool Sierra > Silex Act-3D > Soldier of Fortune Raven/Activision > Spirit of Speed 1937 Broadsword Interactive/Hasbro Interactive > Star Wars: Obi Wan Lucasarts > Star Trek Voyager: Elite Force Ravensoft/Activision > Steel Whisper Orange Games > Stonekeep 2: Godmaker Interplay > Swat 3: Battle Plan Sierra > Swat 3:Special Edition Sierra > Sydney 2000 Attention to Detail/Eidos > Team Fortress 2: Brotherhood of Arms Valve/Sierra > Terminator 3D Orange Games > Test Drive 6 Pitbull/Infogrames > Titanium Angels Sci > Tribes 2 Dynamix/Sierra > Ultima Online 2 Origin/Electronic Arts > Ultima Worlds Online: Origin Origin > Ultimate Bass Fishing 2000 Engineering Animation/EA > Vampire: The Masquerade Nihilistic/ Activision > WarBirds III Interactive Magic > Warcraft 3 Blizzard > Werewolf: The Apocalypse Dreamforge/American Softworks Corp. > X-Plane Laminar Research > > >rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> What Hardware T&L featured racing sims are available? I haven't seen >> any or heard of any in development. >> > >

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand Voodoo 5 vs Geforce Shootout http://www.papadoc.net/Voodoo_vs_Geforce2.htm Flanker Target Grand Prix Legends Crash Test Dummy Aim-120 Propellent Addict Infamous Pink Flamingo Pilot...<VBG> Rants, Bullshit and Help Guides availible at www.papadoc.net

hehe....Not quite there bucko...you are putting words in my mouth. I worked closely with the Flanker crew...I beta tested the Flanker 2.0 product...I know what they did wrong with their release of the software and indeed nearly the day after the release I posted the fixes for it. Did you notice the big smiley...??? The notes pretty much talk about my disappointment that Flanker STILL doesnt automagically use all the great features of the Voodoo 5...like the developers just put a line in their that says /if 3dfx use shitty textures Here is the exact quote...I can do this since Im the author...hehe. Flanker 2.0 still doesn't like the Voodoo 5...indeed is almost like SSI has it in for 3dfx. 8-) When I installed the Voodoo 5 one of the first games I ran was Flanker cause I couldn't wait to see how beautiful it ran. Luckily I had reinstalled Flanker for this review and so was able to verify that even with the completely capable Voodoo5 Card the textures are still blurry. Its a holdover from when the thought was that you had to provide textures smaller than 256x256 for the V3 and older 3dfx cards to run...this is incorrect. Easily fixed, indeed its detailed how on the front page or in the Old news section of the site. The Geforce 2 was ok (would have been excellent except hampered a bit by some problems accessing the menus causing crashes) in this test but again faded as we turned on FSAA. In the comparisons of speed notice the Geforce is faster without FSAA or 32bit but those are turned on the speed difference is gone. Indeed at high resolutions and high FSAA settings the Voodoo 5 is as fast to the Geforce as the Geforce was to the Voodoo 5 at low res. We could say that the Voodoo 5 is a better card for people who want all the eye candy that Flanker has to offer. End quote... Notice that the Voodoo 5 is faster without FSAA but with 32bit textures turned on....thats very significant. PAPA DOC

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>secondly I read that papa doc review, and thought it was very good. I did >think it was biased however, in that when the V5 was slower it was stated >that the game doesn't like V5's for some reason, but when the Ge was slower >it was because Nvidias drivers were bad. So it wasn't 3Dfx's fault that >Flanker was slower on their card, but it was Nvidias fault in similar cases. > >Otherwise the #'s don't lie. they are both very fast, and in D3D GeForce >usually seems faster than V5, I would like to see more benchmarks in more >variety of games. > > >Jan Loebzien <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 11:03:24 -0700, "Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> >> wrote: >> >> >He talks about having screenshots, but we all >> >know how screenshots are, many people think FSAA looks very bad in many >> >racing games, despite the fact that the screenshots look a bit better. >> >> What? As far as I know, everyone who has seen the V5's FSAA >> in action will tell you that the screenshots do *not* do the game in >> motion justice, i.e. they do *not* look as good as the actual game. >> The screenshots only show the reduced jaggies but they can not >> show the equally important removal of artifacts or the reduction of >> texture shimmering. >> >> >Ok here's the bottom line, they are both very good cards, while virtually >> >all magazines out there are rating the GeForce2 much higher than the V5, >> >> Yeah, these are the magazines that only run the "standard" benchmark >> set of Q3 and 3DMark2000. If you want some more real life numbers and >> pictures, check the V5 vs GF2 test at www.papdoc.net , which was done >> mostly on flight simulators. >> >> >> JanL > >

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand Voodoo 5 vs Geforce Shootout http://www.papadoc.net/Voodoo_vs_Geforce2.htm Flanker Target Grand Prix Legends Crash Test Dummy Aim-120 Propellent Addict Infamous Pink Flamingo Pilot...<VBG> Rants, Bullshit and Help Guides availible at www.papadoc.net

Ok I'm going to ignore Jan's reply, since he missed the part I was talking about.... But all I was saying is that I was just interpreting a bit of slant just by the way you came across to me. It kind of felt like when say a TV 'news' program is slightly favoring one political party, and when they ignore the faults of one party, they criticize the other for doing the same thing. However let me say that a head to head review can be very hard to write, and actually prefer separate articles that allow me to draw my own conclusions. but since it is a head to head, here are my suggestions... 1.) Write the article while your reviewing it, so that your final thoughts don't slant your preliminary ones. 2.) In all cases try to get the official reason from both companies on as many issues you address as possible. If the company says it's because Microsoft is in cahoots with the other card maker, that's important information, at least give us a chance to choose the good guys. :) 3.) Try to save any conclusions if any till the end, allow the reader to draw his own conclusions before he gets to yours. Make this conclusion one that says which card does what best, and which kind of person each card would serve best. Obviously how well a card performs in Q3 isn't very important to a sim racer, but it would be for a Quake guy. Those are suggestions, and nit criticisms. Like I said I really enjoyed your article. Pierre Legrand <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:399c02dd.39132890@news...

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> hehe....Not quite there bucko...you are putting words in my mouth. > > I worked closely with the Flanker crew...I beta tested the Flanker 2.0 > product...I know what they did wrong with their release of the > software and indeed nearly the day after the release I posted the > fixes for it. Did you notice the big smiley...??? The notes pretty > much talk about my disappointment that Flanker STILL doesnt > automagically use all the great features of the Voodoo 5...like the > developers just put a line in their that says /if 3dfx use shitty > textures > > Here is the exact quote...I can do this since Im the author...hehe. > > Flanker 2.0 still doesn't like the Voodoo 5...indeed is almost like > SSI has it in for 3dfx. 8-) When I installed the Voodoo 5 one of the > first games I ran was Flanker cause I couldn't wait to see how > beautiful it ran. Luckily I had reinstalled Flanker for this review > and so was able to verify that even with the completely capable > Voodoo5 Card the textures are still blurry. Its a holdover from when > the thought was that you had to provide textures smaller than 256x256 > for the V3 and older 3dfx cards to run...this is incorrect. Easily > fixed, indeed its detailed how on the front page or in the Old news > section of the site. The Geforce 2 was ok (would have been excellent > except hampered a bit by some problems accessing the menus causing > crashes) in this test but again faded as we turned on FSAA. In the > comparisons of speed notice the Geforce is faster without FSAA or > 32bit but those are turned on the speed difference is gone. Indeed at > high resolutions and high FSAA settings the Voodoo 5 is as fast to the > Geforce as the Geforce was to the Voodoo 5 at low res. We could say > that the Voodoo 5 is a better card for people who want all the eye > candy that Flanker has to offer. > > End quote... > > Notice that the Voodoo 5 is faster without FSAA but with 32bit > textures turned on....thats very significant. > > PAPA DOC > > > > >secondly I read that papa doc review, and thought it was very good. I did > >think it was biased however, in that when the V5 was slower it was stated > >that the game doesn't like V5's for some reason, but when the Ge was

slower > >it was because Nvidias drivers were bad. So it wasn't 3Dfx's fault that > >Flanker was slower on their card, but it was Nvidias fault in similarcases.

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> > > >Otherwise the #'s don't lie. they are both very fast, and in D3D GeForce > >usually seems faster than V5, I would like to see more benchmarks in more > >variety of games. > > > > > >Jan Loebzien <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:[email hidden]... > >> On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 11:03:24 -0700, "Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> > >> wrote: > >> > >> >He talks about having screenshots, but we all > >> >know how screenshots are, many people think FSAA looks very bad in

many

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> >> >racing games, despite the fact that the screenshots look a bit better. > >> > >> What? As far as I know, everyone who has seen the V5's FSAA > >> in action will tell you that the screenshots do *not* do the game in > >> motion justice, i.e. they do *not* look as good as the actual game. > >> The screenshots only show the reduced jaggies but they can not > >> show the equally important removal of artifacts or the reduction of > >> texture shimmering. > >> > >> >Ok here's the bottom line, they are both very good cards, while

virtually > >> >all magazines out there are rating the GeForce2 much higher than theV5,

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> >> > >> Yeah, these are the magazines that only run the "standard" benchmark > >> set of Q3 and 3DMark2000. If you want some more real life numbers and > >> pictures, check the V5 vs GF2 test at www.papdoc.net , which was done > >> mostly on flight simulators. > >> > >> > >> JanL > > > > > > Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand > Voodoo 5 vs Geforce Shootout > http://www.papadoc.net/Voodoo_vs_Geforce2.htm > Flanker Target > Grand Prix Legends Crash Test Dummy > Aim-120 Propellent Addict > Infamous Pink Flamingo Pilot...<VBG> > Rants, Bullshit and Help Guides availible at > www.papadoc.net