"Gregor Veble" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
While both articles have valid points, I don't think you can discount Force
Feedback as having a significant part of the future of simracing. It's only
going to get better. Racing on a computer involves a whole bunch of
compromises from graphics to, physics, sound, controls, etc. Any imput sim
designers can give the user to make him more aware of his(her) surroundings
and of the attitude of the car, adds to the sim experience.
FF wheels feel different at first, there's no doubt about it. The feel awful
when they are turned off, so don't judge a wheel until you actually drive a
good sim with it. GPL has very little latency, the windows imposed deadzone
is more of a problem IMO. My only experience has been with the LWFF. I have
two now, one nearly two years old and one purchased two weeks ago from
computergeeks.com, $58.00 US. The newer wheel has improved shifters,
stronger forces and a stiffer brake pedal spring, although I use CH pedals
on my GPL machine. The steering wheel itself is grippy and shaped quite nice
and the shifters are perfectly placed and sized, IMO. It mounts quickly and
securely, although I don't like the angle of the wheel at all and have taken
to placing a 3/4 in. block under the back of the housing to angle it back
towards me a bit.
I drive GPL primarily with FF, but race occasionally on a friends network
using his non-force wheels. I'm spoiled now, I really miss the feedback GPL
gives through the wheel, even the bumps in the tarmac as you wail down the
long pit straight at Monza<g>. Without FF I feel disconnected from the car,
almost like driving with no sound.
--
don
New GPL Programs for the Converted Tracks:
http://www.ianparker1.plus.com/gpl/bapom/
Hi,
I can suggest either the Logitech wheel, or the
ACT Labs wheel. The Logitech is a bit smoother,
while the ACT labs is a bit stronger. I think
you won't be disappointed with either one.
Expect to spend several days to a week figuring
out what the FF is really telling you, and how
to respond.
FF had made me a much better driver!
--
Pat Dotson
Gregor Veble wrote:
>
> Hi all!
>
> I've been considering buying a Force Feedback wheel for quite a while
> now. I was practically set to buy one, but then the comparison review
> was put up on www.simhq.com, and the by now infamous WSC interview on
> the www.simracingnews.com as well. In these articles criticism was put
> to the FF wheels for being notchy and having too much of a latency to be
> useful for tarmac racing sims.
>
> On the other hand, many of you on this board are extremely satisfied
> with the FF effects in GPL, and I've always been able to get reliable
> info from this group (after extreme filtering of facts from flames, of
> course :) ).
>
> Therefore, I have two questions:
>
> Firstly, I've only held a couple of unplugged FF wheels in my hands, and
> those felt pretty notchy when being turned. Does this go away when the
> wheel is under power?
>
> Secondly, how bad is the latency? I know one can set latency in GPL to
> suit personal needs, but there is some inherent minimal latency in the
> FF mechanism that can probably not be eliminated. For those who tested
> that a bit, what would be this latency time estimate? It may not be as
> important in GPL as the car response times are rather large there, but
> it is more important in modern F1 sims, so that is why I ask.
>
> Thanks in advance for all replies.
>
> -Gregor
Hi all!
I've been considering buying a Force Feedback wheel for quite a while
now. I was practically set to buy one, but then the comparison review
was put up on www.simhq.com, and the by now infamous WSC interview on
the www.simracingnews.com as well. In these articles criticism was put
to the FF wheels for being notchy and having too much of a latency to be
useful for tarmac racing sims.
On the other hand, many of you on this board are extremely satisfied
with the FF effects in GPL, and I've always been able to get reliable
info from this group (after extreme filtering of facts from flames, of
course :) ).
Therefore, I have two questions:
Firstly, I've only held a couple of unplugged FF wheels in my hands, and
those felt pretty notchy when being turned. Does this go away when the
wheel is under power?
Secondly, how bad is the latency? I know one can set latency in GPL to
suit personal needs, but there is some inherent minimal latency in the
FF mechanism that can probably not be eliminated. For those who tested
that a bit, what would be this latency time estimate? It may not be as
important in GPL as the car response times are rather large there, but
it is more important in modern F1 sims, so that is why I ask.
Thanks in advance for all replies.
-Gregor
Latency is very important in GPL and the settings you can use varies from
system to system....
With Ferrari wheel if you turn the wheel very slowly you can feel tiny
"bumps" but when driving it's smooth as silk...I think the mechanics are
belt driven and you can feel when the belt touches the gears.
My top list
Guillemot Ferrari FF
Logitech FF with CH pedals
ACT Labs FF
M
.
Gregor Veble <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (30 lines)
> Hi all! > > I've been considering buying a Force Feedback wheel for quite a while > now. I was practically set to buy one, but then the comparison review > was put up on www.simhq.com, and the by now infamous WSC interview on > the www.simracingnews.com as well. In these articles criticism was put > to the FF wheels for being notchy and having too much of a latency to be > useful for tarmac racing sims. > > On the other hand, many of you on this board are extremely satisfied > with the FF effects in GPL, and I've always been able to get reliable > info from this group (after extreme filtering of facts from flames, of > course :) ). > > Therefore, I have two questions: > > Firstly, I've only held a couple of unplugged FF wheels in my hands, and > those felt pretty notchy when being turned. Does this go away when the > wheel is under power? > > Secondly, how bad is the latency? I know one can set latency in GPL to > suit personal needs, but there is some inherent minimal latency in the > FF mechanism that can probably not be eliminated. For those who tested > that a bit, what would be this latency time estimate? It may not be as > important in GPL as the car response times are rather large there, but > it is more important in modern F1 sims, so that is why I ask. > > Thanks in advance for all replies. > > -GregorIt's smooth as silk in GPL if and only if you use a very low or 0 setting
for damping. Unfortunately, this reduces or eliminates some of the
legitimate FFB effects in the game. If you use a high setting, to get what
seems like more FFB, you also get "gravel in the steering box" feel to go
along with it. It is quite an art to get any wheel set-up with all of the
compromises.
I own the Ferrari wheel and am quite happy with it except for one glaring
problem: you don't get much FFB at all unless you happen to be turning the
wheel at the same time. In other words, as an easy to replicate example,
you can drive across the grass at Mosport and as long as you keep the wheel
straight, you will feel nothing. If you turn the wheel as you are driving,
you will feel the little bumps from the grass that you feel in a MS wheel
even when you are driving straight.
I have never been able to get anyone here to confirm that this is a problem
just with the Ferrari wheel or all iForce based wheels (which would include
the Logitech that about a zillion people are using).
Marc.
"Marko Aaltonen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:8njb3f$jh2$[email hidden]...
Quoted text (48 lines)
> Latency is very important in GPL and the settings you can use varies from > system to system.... > > With Ferrari wheel if you turn the wheel very slowly you can feel tiny > "bumps" but when driving it's smooth as silk...I think the mechanics are > belt driven and you can feel when the belt touches the gears. > > My top list > Guillemot Ferrari FF > Logitech FF with CH pedals > ACT Labs FF > > M > . > Gregor Veble <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Hi all! > > > > I've been considering buying a Force Feedback wheel for quite a while > > now. I was practically set to buy one, but then the comparison review > > was put up on www.simhq.com, and the by now infamous WSC interview on > > the www.simracingnews.com as well. In these articles criticism was put > > to the FF wheels for being notchy and having too much of a latency to be > > useful for tarmac racing sims. > > > > On the other hand, many of you on this board are extremely satisfied > > with the FF effects in GPL, and I've always been able to get reliable > > info from this group (after extreme filtering of facts from flames, of > > course :) ). > > > > Therefore, I have two questions: > > > > Firstly, I've only held a couple of unplugged FF wheels in my hands, and > > those felt pretty notchy when being turned. Does this go away when the > > wheel is under power? > > > > Secondly, how bad is the latency? I know one can set latency in GPL to > > suit personal needs, but there is some inherent minimal latency in the > > FF mechanism that can probably not be eliminated. For those who tested > > that a bit, what would be this latency time estimate? It may not be as > > important in GPL as the car response times are rather large there, but > > it is more important in modern F1 sims, so that is why I ask. > > > > Thanks in advance for all replies. > > > > -Gregor > >Hurry-
Get a Logitech Wingman Force Feedback wheel from computergeeks.com
for 58.00. That's right 58.00. You cannot beat this deal, and the wheel is
quite outstanding!!
Pat Dotson <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (48 lines)
> Hi, > > I can suggest either the Logitech wheel, or the > ACT Labs wheel. The Logitech is a bit smoother, > while the ACT labs is a bit stronger. I think > you won't be disappointed with either one. > > Expect to spend several days to a week figuring > out what the FF is really telling you, and how > to respond. > > FF had made me a much better driver! > > -- > Pat Dotson > > Gregor Veble wrote: > > > > Hi all! > > > > I've been considering buying a Force Feedback wheel for quite a while > > now. I was practically set to buy one, but then the comparison review > > was put up on www.simhq.com, and the by now infamous WSC interview on > > the www.simracingnews.com as well. In these articles criticism was put > > to the FF wheels for being notchy and having too much of a latency to be > > useful for tarmac racing sims. > > > > On the other hand, many of you on this board are extremely satisfied > > with the FF effects in GPL, and I've always been able to get reliable > > info from this group (after extreme filtering of facts from flames, of > > course :) ). > > > > Therefore, I have two questions: > > > > Firstly, I've only held a couple of unplugged FF wheels in my hands, and > > those felt pretty notchy when being turned. Does this go away when the > > wheel is under power? > > > > Secondly, how bad is the latency? I know one can set latency in GPL to > > suit personal needs, but there is some inherent minimal latency in the > > FF mechanism that can probably not be eliminated. For those who tested > > that a bit, what would be this latency time estimate? It may not be as > > important in GPL as the car response times are rather large there, but > > it is more important in modern F1 sims, so that is why I ask. > > > > Thanks in advance for all replies. > > > > -GregorCan you give me a link to this? I'm getting a Act Labs cheap, so I have the
extra 70 to spend on another wheel, and would like to buy this wheel, or at
least take a serious look, but need to find it. Thanks.
-Stuart Becktell
"rik anthrax" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:gOhn5.7932$[email hidden]...
be
and
Quoted text (31 lines)
> Hurry- > Get a Logitech Wingman Force Feedback wheel from computergeeks.com > for 58.00. That's right 58.00. You cannot beat this deal, and the wheel is > quite outstanding!! > Pat Dotson <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Hi, > > > > I can suggest either the Logitech wheel, or the > > ACT Labs wheel. The Logitech is a bit smoother, > > while the ACT labs is a bit stronger. I think > > you won't be disappointed with either one. > > > > Expect to spend several days to a week figuring > > out what the FF is really telling you, and how > > to respond. > > > > FF had made me a much better driver! > > > > -- > > Pat Dotson > > > > Gregor Veble wrote: > > > > > > Hi all! > > > > > > I've been considering buying a Force Feedback wheel for quite a while > > > now. I was practically set to buy one, but then the comparison review > > > was put up on www.simhq.com, and the by now infamous WSC interview on > > > the www.simracingnews.com as well. In these articles criticism was put > > > to the FF wheels for being notchy and having too much of a latency toQuoted text (10 lines)
> > > useful for tarmac racing sims. > > > > > > On the other hand, many of you on this board are extremely satisfied > > > with the FF effects in GPL, and I've always been able to get reliable > > > info from this group (after extreme filtering of facts from flames, of > > > course :) ). > > > > > > Therefore, I have two questions: > > > > > > Firstly, I've only held a couple of unplugged FF wheels in my hands,Quoted text (15 lines)
> > > those felt pretty notchy when being turned. Does this go away when the > > > wheel is under power? > > > > > > Secondly, how bad is the latency? I know one can set latency in GPL to > > > suit personal needs, but there is some inherent minimal latency in the > > > FF mechanism that can probably not be eliminated. For those who tested > > > that a bit, what would be this latency time estimate? It may not be as > > > important in GPL as the car response times are rather large there, but > > > it is more important in modern F1 sims, so that is why I ask. > > > > > > Thanks in advance for all replies. > > > > > > -Gregor > >
Marc Collins <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:d1cn5.144436$[email hidden]...
> It's smooth as silk in GPL if and only if you use a very low or 0 setting
> for damping. Unfortunately, this reduces or eliminates some of the
> legitimate FFB effects in the game. If you use a high setting, to getwhat
wheel
> straight, you will feel nothing. If you turn the wheel as you aredriving,
> you will feel the little bumps from the grass that you feel in a MS wheel
> even when you are driving straight.
I've managed to eliminate the "bumps" some people call "notchyness" in GPL
with my Ferrari FF wheel.
I'd previously tried Slotweaks setting but found them "notchy" as you say so
I spent quite a while developing my own. His settings gave more FF than the
default settings, e.g. when you hit a wall or ran over grass but I had to
fiddle around to get these and eliminate this gravel in the steering box
feel (which is all down to the settings and not the wheel itself).
I set all the FF strengths to 90% in game controllers and in core.ini use:-
[ Joy ]
allow_force_feedback = 1 ;
force_feedback_latency = 0.0045 ; in seconds
force_feedback_damping = 300 ; magic number2
max_steering_torque = 150 ; in Newton-inches
FF is now smooth and you do get FF even when not turning (e.g. when you run
over the grass). It's taken me a while to get these stings but it has been
well worth it.
With regard to latency you can set it lower with USB and lower still with a
faster processor. 0.0025 works OK with my machine (PIII 600) but any lower
and you feel "spikes" in the FF. GP3 BTW has very high latency and after GPL
just feels plain damm slow to react.
Try these settings as it helps a lot
Some Call Me Tim
