Re: 3DFX has Lost the Video Card War

Ummm...well maybe, maybe not. I just went to a computer show over the weekend and picked up a new Voodoo 5 5500 for $250. It was right next to a GeForce 2 card, but I bought it anyway. And believe me, I know all the specs on all of the latest 3D accelerators...so why did I buy it? 1. I get all the APIs: Direct 3D, Open GL, and, yes, Glide. Perhaps Glide is phasing out (maybe, maybe not); but it's not quite dead yet, and I still play some of the older Glide-only games, so...gotta have it. And since the Voodoo 5 does Direct 3D with aplomb, I don't see where the success of Direct 3D is any kind of a detriment to 3DFX. 2. FSAA is absolutely gorgeous on this board and simply unmatched by the others. And on my 600Mhz PIII, I just don't see where all the griping about "unplayable frame rates" comes from, even when set at 4X. I guess they're not talking about the games I play. Anyway, I have always considered graphic quality above frame rate; in fact, I make it a point never to look at frame rate counters...instead, I try to only consider what the "visceral" experience is...and the Voodoo just happens to do it for me. I've never heard a person say that they prefer television over an IMAX film, even though the IMAX film has a drastically reduced frame rate compared to television! 3. The price was right. Although these next facts didn't affect my purchase so much, there are a few other reasons why 3DFX can't be written off yet. 1. Whether true or not, they still largely own the marketplace "impression" of being a high-caliber graphics player. This is a significant reason why they remain a top seller. 2. They are the only manufacturer of a PCI version of a modern 3D accelerator. This is much more than a niche market considering the hundreds of thousands of non-AGP and integrated AGP machines out there. In fact, a friend of mine just bought a machine six months ago for which he wanted to upgrade the graphics. Although his machine had been sold to him as having AGP, it turned out to have an integrated AGP video adapter with no physical slot. He wanted to buy a GeForce, but had no choice but to buy a PCI Voodoo card (which, it turns out, he is quite happy with and now recommends to others). 3. Although I will whole-heartedly agree that the specs on a Voodoo 5 are below the GeForce and ATI, in the real world on real games the difference is really quite small and often only discernable in side-by-side visual comparisons or in frame counters. For me, the bottom line is that I have no argument that the Radeon and GeForce are anything other than great cards -- and certainly they have the specs to prove it. But while the Voodoo engine might be a bit weaker, I'll still take the Miata over the Z28. Dave "Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:yMgn5.891$[email hidden]... > Whew, I'm going to get flamed with this post. Anyways, I could be wrongbut > here's how I see it. > > 1] Voodoo 4 > What happened to this card? (I think 3dfx fell so far behind, they > abandoned it) I've e-mailed their website inquiring about it but I haveyet

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> to receive a response. > > 2] 3DFX put all their "marbles" on the V5 and now.....NVidia has come out > with the GeForce Ultra 2 and ATI's Radeon. Now, 3DFX is really in hole. > What are they going to do now? SLI 2 Voodoo 5's together powered by an > external generator and UPS unit? > > 3] As I stated in a different post, the reason why 3DFX became popular was > because of Direct 3D's problems. Now Microsoft has ironed out a lot of > Direct 3D's problems. > > Conclusion, don't get me wrong...I got a hell of a lot of playability > out of my Voodoo 2 and I loved the card. However....Just as the ADLIB > soundcard disappeared.....I believe that Direct 3D is the future of > graphical PC applications. > > -Cheers! (I've got my battle armour waiting to be slammed by the V5 > zealots) <grin> > >

Whew, I'm going to get flamed with this post. Anyways, I could be wrong but here's how I see it. 1] Voodoo 4 What happened to this card? (I think 3dfx fell so far behind, they abandoned it) I've e-mailed their website inquiring about it but I have yet to receive a response. 2] 3DFX put all their "marbles" on the V5 and now.....NVidia has come out with the GeForce Ultra 2 and ATI's Radeon. Now, 3DFX is really in hole. What are they going to do now? SLI 2 Voodoo 5's together powered by an external generator and UPS unit? 3] As I stated in a different post, the reason why 3DFX became popular was because of Direct 3D's problems. Now Microsoft has ironed out a lot of Direct 3D's problems. Conclusion, don't get me wrong...I got a hell of a lot of playability out of my Voodoo 2 and I loved the card. However....Just as the ADLIB soundcard disappeared.....I believe that Direct 3D is the future of graphical PC applications. -Cheers! (I've got my battle armour waiting to be slammed by the V5 zealots) <grin>

My main disagreement is your premise that the movement away from glide to D3D spells the end for Voodoo technology. V5 does great in D3D and as long as they continue to offer exceptional stability and compatibility and features that enhance games that actually exist (vs. what MIGHT be the next great thing ala nVidia), they will have a shot at my $. V5 on my rig is a great choice based on the excellent use of FSAA, compatibility with some glide games (not important in a few years but still important to many sim fans), excellent image quality and fast performance. I don't think 3dfx just disappears because glide has all but disappeared. They should survive based on a competitively priced product that delivers solid performance and real enhancements to current games. I consider the V5 the best value given it's features and performance. There's always room for such a product. -- Joe Marques Please remove "NO SPAM" to e-mail me. "Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:yMgn5.891$[email hidden]... > Whew, I'm going to get flamed with this post. Anyways, I could be wrong but > here's how I see it. > > 1] Voodoo 4 > What happened to this card? (I think 3dfx fell so far behind, they > abandoned it) I've e-mailed their website inquiring about it but I have yet > to receive a response. > > 2] 3DFX put all their "marbles" on the V5 and now.....NVidia has come out > with the GeForce Ultra 2 and ATI's Radeon. Now, 3DFX is really in hole. > What are they going to do now? SLI 2 Voodoo 5's together powered by an > external generator and UPS unit? > > 3] As I stated in a different post, the reason why 3DFX became popular was > because of Direct 3D's problems. Now Microsoft has ironed out a lot of > Direct 3D's problems. > > Conclusion, don't get me wrong...I got a hell of a lot of playability > out of my Voodoo 2 and I loved the card. However....Just as the ADLIB > soundcard disappeared.....I believe that Direct 3D is the future of > graphical PC applications. > > -Cheers! (I've got my battle armour waiting to be slammed by the V5 > zealots) <grin> > >

"Regular Racer" wrote > Conclusion, don't get me wrong...I got a hell of a lot of playability > out of my Voodoo 2 and I loved the card. However....Just as the ADLIB > soundcard disappeared.....I believe that Direct 3D is the future of > graphical PC applications. D3D is where the V5 really shines, especially for sims, where the FSAA makes a much bigger difference than it did in Glide. N3 looks great in Glide on any voodoo card, with it's edge AA. GPL looks decent in Glide if you run at real high resolution, but they both look bad in D3D at any resolution without RGSS FSAA.

It's quite a shame really . 3dfx practically invented the accelerator market and were leaders during the V1 & V2 era, certainly with SLI'd V2's. Ok there were some earlier attempts with such things like Matrox's M3D (�199 one day, �39.99 the next and still hardly sold any) and of course various other Power VR cards. I think from there 3DFX assumed themselves to stay market leaders and plodded along with the V3's which basically amounted to the equiv of a pair of V2's SLI'd and slightly overclocked. This is where Nvidia finally blew them out of the water with the TNT2 Ultra. I remember the day I tottered home with a TNT2 Ultra from work just to compare it against my 1 Month old V3 3000 AGP , plugged it in and ran SCGT . The difference was unbelievable, normal running with a couple of cars in front they ran about the same speed, but when you watched a replay with 10 cars on the grid tire smoke etc.. there was absolutely no slow down what so ever where as the voodoo would choke and splutter down to about 5fps on the start. Next morning I wandered back in to work with the V3 and kept the TNT2 . Now the V5 has finally arrived (after a slight misfire and a recall). and their marketing ploy is "Visual quality is everything who needs fps, FSAA is the way to go". Which is funny when their blurb for the V3 was "FPS is everything and who needs 32bit". ??? Make your minds up! besides Nvidia & ATI also have FSAA + T&L (TC&L in ATI's case) plus point bump mapping and a whole host of SFX. Still at least V5's have T-Buffer which is designed to simulate motion blur effect you'd get from a camera(amongst other things), Why? I thought the whole point of emersion was to feel your there and not watching via a camera. Finally , if 3dfx had released the V5 & V6 together and priced the V6 at the same price as the GF2 or ATI and kept the V5 at the same price as a GF2MX or ATI Maxx (which are still both is faster than a V5) they would have been comparable alternatives for present day Gaming. I don't hate 3dfx (I have a V5 at work) and if they ever become market leaders again with a great card I'll get one, but until then I'd have to agree Nvidia & ATI will lead for quite some time.(maybe with a bit of competition from Matrox's new one) Nuff said , Ducking for cover :0) Cheers, Jason Regular Racer <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:yMgn5.891$[email hidden]... > Whew, I'm going to get flamed with this post. Anyways, I could be wrongbut > here's how I see it. > > 1] Voodoo 4 > What happened to this card? (I think 3dfx fell so far behind, they > abandoned it) I've e-mailed their website inquiring about it but I haveyet

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> to receive a response. > > 2] 3DFX put all their "marbles" on the V5 and now.....NVidia has come out > with the GeForce Ultra 2 and ATI's Radeon. Now, 3DFX is really in hole. > What are they going to do now? SLI 2 Voodoo 5's together powered by an > external generator and UPS unit? > > 3] As I stated in a different post, the reason why 3DFX became popular was > because of Direct 3D's problems. Now Microsoft has ironed out a lot of > Direct 3D's problems. > > Conclusion, don't get me wrong...I got a hell of a lot of playability > out of my Voodoo 2 and I loved the card. However....Just as the ADLIB > soundcard disappeared.....I believe that Direct 3D is the future of > graphical PC applications. > > -Cheers! (I've got my battle armour waiting to be slammed by the V5 > zealots) <grin> > >

When I retire all my OLD programs, I 'might' think about another brand of vidcard. But as long as the TPTCC runs a variant of Nascar 99/3 and until SCGT runs out of cars and tracks to gather...etc etc then I might retire the V5. Until that day...the FSAA gives me plenty of reason to hold off buying another brand. Any sim without it's own AA is just practically unbelievably better with fsaa.... So "IF" it gets to the point where the 64 megs isn't enough and 32 bit color doesn't cut it....I'll start looking elsewhere....Product specs of non-shipping parts don't seem to press my "must buy" button. dave henrie "Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:yMgn5.891$[email hidden]... > Whew, I'm going to get flamed with this post. Anyways, I could be wrongbut > here's how I see it.

P3 800MHz 256MB PC-133 SDRAM GeForce2 64MB RAM @220/415MHz SBLive! sound card Abit SE6 mobo Note that the card *barely* gets lukewarm at those overclocked settings. V5s throw quite a bit of heat, which is always a bad thing. Full field, full detail slider, all objects(forward and mirrors), back of the pack start at Monaco=sustained 30-36fps with no screen artifacts or texture glitches(outside those caused by Papy's graphics engine). Wasn't bragging at all, merely counterpointing. I thought the colors looked more vibrant under D3D than they did under Glide and running Quake3@80+ fps in 1600x1200/32 was fairly impressive to me. The Voodoo5 is so big it can alter the airflow through your case and having to hook it up to another power connector is a caveat I do not find to be acceptable! How many Y-adapters can one power supply take? I'm running a 3Dcool.com Tornado 1000, but something more mainstream can get airflow deficiencies with all that card hanging off the AGP slot and a power unit less than 300W would likely have trouble pushing the card, DVD, burner, HD, fans, etc. in my system. Anandtech rates the GeForce2 very highly as well, especially with the Detonator 3 drivers that are now available. 3Dfx blew it by not releasing the V5 on time and V5 6000 is still rumors. By the time they release, the NV20 will likely have hit and the whole argument will *likely* be pointless. In article <[email hidden]>, NOMAIL wrote: > On Sat, 19 Aug 2000 03:33:02 GMT, [email hidden] thus spoke: > > >Run GPL on a 64MB GeForce2 at 1600x1200 using the D3D patch and tellme > >it doesn't look fantastic! The performance gains produced by OCingthe

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> >memory bus on Nvidia cards really put the GeForce2 GTS and especially > >the Ultra a leap ahead of the V5 5500. <GTS clocked to 220MHz > >core/415MHz RAM> > > If your going to brag then back it up with benchmarks. > -- > Nos >

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Wanted to note that the 30-36fps was established immediately after the start, at the entrance to Ste Devote. Numbers are down in the 23-27fps at the start, with quick drops to 20 or so as the cars launch. In article <8nmbcc$qn$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] wrote:

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> P3 800MHz > 256MB PC-133 SDRAM > GeForce2 64MB RAM @220/415MHz > SBLive! sound card > Abit SE6 mobo > > Note that the card *barely* gets lukewarm at those overclocked > settings. V5s throw quite a bit of heat, which is always a bad thing. > > Full field, full detail slider, all objects(forward and mirrors), back > of the pack start at Monaco=sustained 30-36fps with no screen

artifacts > or texture glitches(outside those caused by Papy's graphics engine). > > Wasn't bragging at all, merely counterpointing. I thought the colors > looked more vibrant under D3D than they did under Glide and running > Quake3@80+ fps in 1600x1200/32 was fairly impressive to me. The > Voodoo5 is so big it can alter the airflow through your case andhaving

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> to hook it up to another power connector is a caveat I do not find to > be acceptable! How many Y-adapters can one power supply take? I'm > running a 3Dcool.com Tornado 1000, but something more mainstream can > get airflow deficiencies with all that card hanging off the AGP slot > and a power unit less than 300W would likely have trouble pushing the > card, DVD, burner, HD, fans, etc. in my system. Anandtech rates the > GeForce2 very highly as well, especially with the Detonator 3 drivers > that are now available. 3Dfx blew it by not releasing the V5 on time > and V5 6000 is still rumors. By the time they release, the NV20 will > likely have hit and the whole argument will *likely* be pointless. > > In article <[email hidden]>, > NOMAIL wrote: > > On Sat, 19 Aug 2000 03:33:02 GMT, [email hidden] thus spoke: > > > > >Run GPL on a 64MB GeForce2 at 1600x1200 using the D3D patch and

tell > me > > >it doesn't look fantastic! The performance gains produced by OCing > the > > >memory bus on Nvidia cards really put the GeForce2 GTS andespecially

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> > >the Ultra a leap ahead of the V5 5500. <GTS clocked to 220MHz > > >core/415MHz RAM> > > > > If your going to brag then back it up with benchmarks. > > -- > > Nos > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy. >

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

When you come bragging, bring your benchmarks. :;)) I would put my GF2 against any Voodoo5, let alone V3...did you find a way to UNDERclock the GF2??? In article <[email hidden]>, NOMAIL wrote:

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> On Sat, 19 Aug 2000 14:04:50 GMT, "Jason" > <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > >You must have well and truly f*cked up the install of the GF2 if you > >couldn't get it running faster than a V3. > > Is that the best you can do? When presented with evidence that > contradicts your experience it *must* be because my system is fucked > up. I've heard that one a few too many times. > -- > Nos >

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Get the Detonator3 drivers if you haven't already. Vastly improved my G2 GTS' performance in GPL. In article <i1tn5.5889$[email hidden]>, "Steven Dickson" <[email hidden]> wrote: > I think Regular Racer is confusing FSAA ("full screen/scene anti-aliasing") > with Glide ... at least, that's the only way I can wring any senseout of > what he's saying. > > For what it's worth, I recently upgraded from a Voodoo3 2000 to aGeForce > 256. The upside is that the image quality and frame rate with theGeForce > is dramatically improved over the Voodoo3, and the GeForce's largetexture > support means that I can now use higher resolution textures in somegames > which improves image quality even further. However, the downside isthat > there are some driver issues with some of the games I play whichresult in > texture tearing and image corruption. My opinion of the GeForce isthat > it's a great card with poor drivers. > > I was tempted to go with the Voodoo5 instead of the GeForce, but thecost of > the Voodoo5 at the moment is prohibitive. > > S. > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

id say Ultrasound sound cards (which were WAY better than sb cards) are a better analogy...... pez Regular Racer wrote in message ... >Whew, I'm going to get flamed with this post. Anyways, I could be wrongbut

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>here's how I see it. > >1] Voodoo 4 >What happened to this card? (I think 3dfx fell so far behind, they >abandoned it) I've e-mailed their website inquiring about it but I have yet >to receive a response. > >2] 3DFX put all their "marbles" on the V5 and now.....NVidia has come out >with the GeForce Ultra 2 and ATI's Radeon. Now, 3DFX is really in hole. >What are they going to do now? SLI 2 Voodoo 5's together powered by an >external generator and UPS unit? > >3] As I stated in a different post, the reason why 3DFX became popular was >because of Direct 3D's problems. Now Microsoft has ironed out a lot of >Direct 3D's problems. > > Conclusion, don't get me wrong...I got a hell of a lot of playability >out of my Voodoo 2 and I loved the card. However....Just as the ADLIB >soundcard disappeared.....I believe that Direct 3D is the future of >graphical PC applications. > >-Cheers! (I've got my battle armour waiting to be slammed by the V5 >zealots) <grin> > >

On Fri, 18 Aug 2000 22:05:20 GMT, "Jason" <[email hidden]> wrote: <snip> > Next morning I wandered back in to work with the V3 and kept the TNT2<snip> <snip> >I don't hate 3dfx (I have a V5 at work) <snip> What kind of work do you do? Andre

I think the V5 is still as good as GF2 and Radeon in some areas like image and even frame rate for some games. The V5 fps come up way short if you look at Q3 games, but for UT and some other games even in D3D the V5 is about the same or better from what I have read. http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1298&p=11 I do agree that the V5 6000 is too big and a bit much to have an external power supply, unless its way beyond the speed and image of anything out now or the next year. I dont know if 3dfx is having problems keeping up with the competition, maybe. Competition is good for better graphics at a reasonable price, but they come out with new cards so often its hard for the consumer to keep up. V5 and GF2 are both good,I think its still a matter of preference. BTW, I bought a V5 and so far I am happy with it. No problems and runs a lot cooler than my V2's in SLI(the whole case stays cooler). I like the FSAA. Lutrell

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>2] 3DFX put all their "marbles" on the V5 and now.....NVidia has come out >with the GeForce Ultra 2 and ATI's Radeon. Now, 3DFX is really in hole. >What are they going to do now? SLI 2 Voodoo 5's together powered by an >external generator and UPS unit? > >-Cheers! (I've got my battle armour waiting to be slammed by the V5 >zealots) <grin> > >

Swims up to the hook gives it a sniff then swims away....<G> PAPA DOC PS Had both the Geforce 2 and V5 now I only have the Voodoo 5...I guess I disagree....hehe.

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>Whew, I'm going to get flamed with this post. Anyways, I could be wrong but >here's how I see it. > >1] Voodoo 4 >What happened to this card? (I think 3dfx fell so far behind, they >abandoned it) I've e-mailed their website inquiring about it but I have yet >to receive a response. > >2] 3DFX put all their "marbles" on the V5 and now.....NVidia has come out >with the GeForce Ultra 2 and ATI's Radeon. Now, 3DFX is really in hole. >What are they going to do now? SLI 2 Voodoo 5's together powered by an >external generator and UPS unit? > >3] As I stated in a different post, the reason why 3DFX became popular was >because of Direct 3D's problems. Now Microsoft has ironed out a lot of >Direct 3D's problems. > > Conclusion, don't get me wrong...I got a hell of a lot of playability >out of my Voodoo 2 and I loved the card. However....Just as the ADLIB >soundcard disappeared.....I believe that Direct 3D is the future of >graphical PC applications. > >-Cheers! (I've got my battle armour waiting to be slammed by the V5 >zealots) <grin> > >

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand Voodoo 5 vs Geforce 2 shootout... Flanker Target GPL Crash Dummy Video Card Wizard www.papadoc.net FALCON 4 Benchmarks Rants, Bullshit and Reviews

On Fri, 18 Aug 2000 13:14:36 -0700, "Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >-Cheers! (I've got my battle armour waiting to be slammed by the V5 >zealots) <grin> > > Yawn. -- Nos

On Fri, 18 Aug 2000 22:05:20 GMT, "Jason" <[email hidden]> thus spoke:

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>This is where Nvidia finally blew them out of the water with the TNT2 Ultra. >I remember the day I tottered home with a TNT2 Ultra from work just to >compare it against my 1 Month old V3 3000 AGP , plugged it in and ran SCGT . >The difference was unbelievable, normal running with a couple of cars in >front they ran about the same speed, but when you watched a replay with 10 >cars on the grid tire smoke etc.. there was absolutely no slow down what so >ever where as the voodoo would choke and splutter down to about 5fps on the >start. Next morning I wandered back in to work with the V3 and kept the TNT2

This is bullshit. I say that because I had a Geforce2 for a while and SCGT still ran better on my V3 in glide mode. -- Nos

Run GPL on a 64MB GeForce2 at 1600x1200 using the D3D patch and tell me it doesn't look fantastic! The performance gains produced by OCing the memory bus on Nvidia cards really put the GeForce2 GTS and especially the Ultra a leap ahead of the V5 5500. <GTS clocked to 220MHz core/415MHz RAM> In article <s0in5.2347$[email hidden]>, "Tracey Miller" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > "Regular Racer" wrote > > Conclusion, don't get me wrong...I got a hell of a lot ofplayability > > out of my Voodoo 2 and I loved the card. However....Just as theADLIB > > soundcard disappeared.....I believe that Direct 3D is the future of > > graphical PC applications. > > D3D is where the V5 really shines, especially for sims, where theFSAA makes > a much bigger difference than it did in Glide. N3 looks great inGlide on > any voodoo card, with it's edge AA. GPL looks decent in Glide if yourun at > real high resolution, but they both look bad in D3D at any resolution > without RGSS FSAA. > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

I agree. With the new D3 drivers and smaller die-szie(read:greater potential for OCing), the GeForce2 w/64MB finally pulled me away from the 3Dfx crowd and I have not ever been happier. The chip simply flies and OCs solidly, barely getting lukewarm in my system(which is FULL of fans ::). Go whichever way you want, but 3Dfx needs a .18micron or smaller chip to eliminate this ridiculous need for a power input... In article <yMgn5.891$[email hidden]>, "Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote: > Whew, I'm going to get flamed with this post. Anyways, I could bewrong but > here's how I see it. > > 1] Voodoo 4 > What happened to this card? (I think 3dfx fell so far behind, they > abandoned it) I've e-mailed their website inquiring about it but Ihave yet > to receive a response. > > 2] 3DFX put all their "marbles" on the V5 and now.....NVidia hascome out > with the GeForce Ultra 2 and ATI's Radeon. Now, 3DFX is really inhole. > What are they going to do now? SLI 2 Voodoo 5's together powered by an > external generator and UPS unit? > > 3] As I stated in a different post, the reason why 3DFX becamepopular was > because of Direct 3D's problems. Now Microsoft has ironed out a lotof > Direct 3D's problems. > > Conclusion, don't get me wrong...I got a hell of a lot ofplayability

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> out of my Voodoo 2 and I loved the card. However....Just as the ADLIB > soundcard disappeared.....I believe that Direct 3D is the future of > graphical PC applications. > > -Cheers! (I've got my battle armour waiting to be slammed by the V5 > zealots) <grin> > >

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

FSAA will be prehistoric in the future.......Direct is the future -Cheers "Someotherdude" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >-Cheers! (I've got my battle armour waiting to be slammed by the V5 > >zealots) <grin> > > > > > Judge for yourself, those other card's "FSAA" are non-existent. > > http://www.planethardware.com/features/fsaa_shootout/dm7_fsaa_on.shtml > > Are we suppose to play games without FSAA, what are we, savages? > >

"Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Jonn5.1099$[email hidden]... > FSAA will be prehistoric in the future.......Direct is the future > > -Cheers > > What do you mean? -- Joe Marques

Fantastic? It doesn't even look good IMHO. Not only is there still aliasing, but the colors don't look right in D3D on the GeForce, they have a cartoonish look to them - which works quite well in other games like MDK2, just not in sims. <[email hidden]> wrote in message > Run GPL on a 64MB GeForce2 at 1600x1200 using the D3D patch and tellme > it doesn't look fantastic!

FSAA is "now" but Direct is a more integrated program. (You won't see autocad designers using FSAA) But that's drifting a bit. I just don't see FSAA as long term. Like I said though, I could be wrong. "Joe Marques" <Joe"NO_SPAM"[email hidden]> wrote in message news:IHnn5.9869$[email hidden]...

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> "Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Jonn5.1099$[email hidden]... > > FSAA will be prehistoric in the future.......Direct is the future > > > > -Cheers > > > > > > What do you mean? > > -- > Joe Marques > >

On Sat, 19 Aug 2000 03:33:02 GMT, [email hidden] thus spoke: >Run GPL on a 64MB GeForce2 at 1600x1200 using the D3D patch and tell me >it doesn't look fantastic! The performance gains produced by OCing the >memory bus on Nvidia cards really put the GeForce2 GTS and especially >the Ultra a leap ahead of the V5 5500. <GTS clocked to 220MHz >core/415MHz RAM> If your going to brag then back it up with benchmarks. -- Nos

On Fri, 18 Aug 2000 23:03:22 -0700, "Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >FSAA is "now" but Direct is a more integrated program. (You won't see >autocad designers using FSAA) But that's drifting a bit. I just don't see >FSAA as long term. Like I said though, I could be wrong. What is "direct"? You talking about D3D or what? What does Autocad have to do with games? FSAA is here to stay and it has nothing to do with D3D. It is a hardware feature. -- Nos

They said a lot of things are here to stay. Anyways..How do you know FSAA is here to stay? At least I admit that I could be wrong............. -Cheers! <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Fri, 18 Aug 2000 23:03:22 -0700, "Regular Racer" > <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > >FSAA is "now" but Direct is a more integrated program. (You won't see > >autocad designers using FSAA) But that's drifting a bit. I just don'tsee

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> >FSAA as long term. Like I said though, I could be wrong. > > What is "direct"? You talking about D3D or what? What does Autocad > have to do with games? FSAA is here to stay and it has nothing to do > with D3D. It is a hardware feature. > -- > Nos

I think Regular Racer is confusing FSAA ("full screen/scene anti-aliasing") with Glide ... at least, that's the only way I can wring any sense out of what he's saying. For what it's worth, I recently upgraded from a Voodoo3 2000 to a GeForce 256. The upside is that the image quality and frame rate with the GeForce is dramatically improved over the Voodoo3, and the GeForce's large texture support means that I can now use higher resolution textures in some games which improves image quality even further. However, the downside is that there are some driver issues with some of the games I play which result in texture tearing and image corruption. My opinion of the GeForce is that it's a great card with poor drivers. I was tempted to go with the Voodoo5 instead of the GeForce, but the cost of the Voodoo5 at the moment is prohibitive. S.

It's was what happened and not bullshit! as you put it. I've no doubt that now I probably wouldn't notice the difference due to a much higher system spec (Athlon 700) ,but at the time which was over a year ago I had a K6 350 64mb and therefore it might have been down to a CPU bottleneck but it only went to prove to me that the TNT2 was a much better card for that System spec. You must have well and truly f*cked up the install of the GF2 if you couldn't get it running faster than a V3. <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Fri, 18 Aug 2000 22:05:20 GMT, "Jason" > <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > > This is bullshit. I say that because I had a Geforce2 for a while and > SCGT still ran better on my V3 in glide mode. > -- > Nos

I agree with most of your comments but I disagree with your title. Lost the war? I remember a little company who came out with a crappy little card called the NV-1 and everyone wrote them off at the time. 3DFX was guilty of sitting on their laurels but that will just motivate them more next time around. The Voodoo 5 is great for people who can afford to spend $300-400 to buy a new card every year. I owned a Voodoo 1, then a Voodoo 2 and recently I upgraded to a GeForce 2. Why did I leave the 3dfx brand? Well, I realized that I had no need for Glide support and I wanted a card that had a feature set that would allow me to go a few years without requiring an upgrade. FSAA is very nice but like other technologies, it's still in its developing stage. Unless you run 640x480 or 800x600, the performance hit is too great IMO. Most games nowadays are being designed with larger textures to run at higher resolutions and IMO don't look as nice when running them at the lower resolutions. I'm sure the next round of cards from the manufacturers will be powerful enough that FSAA will be enabled by default. My $.02, Michael M "Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:yMgn5.891$[email hidden]... > Whew, I'm going to get flamed with this post. Anyways, I could be wrongbut > here's how I see it. > > 1] Voodoo 4 > What happened to this card? (I think 3dfx fell so far behind, they > abandoned it) I've e-mailed their website inquiring about it but I haveyet

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> to receive a response. > > 2] 3DFX put all their "marbles" on the V5 and now.....NVidia has come out > with the GeForce Ultra 2 and ATI's Radeon. Now, 3DFX is really in hole. > What are they going to do now? SLI 2 Voodoo 5's together powered by an > external generator and UPS unit? > > 3] As I stated in a different post, the reason why 3DFX became popular was > because of Direct 3D's problems. Now Microsoft has ironed out a lot of > Direct 3D's problems. > > Conclusion, don't get me wrong...I got a hell of a lot of playability > out of my Voodoo 2 and I loved the card. However....Just as the ADLIB > soundcard disappeared.....I believe that Direct 3D is the future of > graphical PC applications. > > -Cheers! (I've got my battle armour waiting to be slammed by the V5 > zealots) <grin> > >

Heh, heh, heh........Like I said in another post, sometimes being up all night with the newborn "alters" my thinking.........Thanks though! "Weaver" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sat, 19 Aug 2000 03:13:13 -0700, "Steven Dickson" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I think Regular Racer is confusing FSAA ("full screen/sceneanti-aliasing") > >with Glide ... at least, that's the only way I can wring any sense out of > >what he's saying. > > LOL > > He means direct-to-the-metal = Glide.

On Sat, 19 Aug 2000 00:16:20 -0700, "Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >They said a lot of things are here to stay. Anyways..How do you know FSAA >is here to stay? At least I admit that I could be wrong............. Like 3D acceleration is here to stay so is FSAA. Unless you prefer to play games with jaggies and shimmering pixels. Be my guest. -- Nos

On Sat, 19 Aug 2000 14:04:50 GMT, "Jason" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >You must have well and truly f*cked up the install of the GF2 if you >couldn't get it running faster than a V3. Is that the best you can do? When presented with evidence that contradicts your experience it *must* be because my system is fucked up. I've heard that one a few too many times. -- Nos

> it doesn't look fantastic! The performance gains produced by OCing the > memory bus on Nvidia cards really put the GeForce2 GTS and especially > the Ultra a leap ahead of the V5 5500. <GTS clocked to 220MHz > core/415MHz RAM> happy crashing then. I run my V3 overclocked and overticked at 1245 mhz and it smokes the competition, hell it smokes so much that I can't see a damn thing in here.. :)

On Sat, 19 Aug 2000 19:18:58 GMT, [email hidden] thus spoke: >When you come bragging, bring your benchmarks. :;)) I would put my GF2 >against any Voodoo5, let alone V3...did you find a way to UNDERclock >the GF2???Twat. -- Nos

On Sat, 19 Aug 2000 23:03:48 GMT, "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >As someone who has owned both a Voodoo5 and a GeForce2 I find the nVidia >card more to my liking. I know nVidia have a reputation for incompatible >drivers but i've tested around 25 games so far on the GeForce 2 with the new >Detonator 3 drivers and I'm yet to find *any* problems. Do you play any flight sims Simon? -- Nos

the ultrasound max was THE card for Doom......scared the sh;t out of me..... but it didnt work at all with directx....:( the Ultrasound Maxx was doing spacial 3d when Doom came out..... pez Dave Henrie wrote in message ... > I remember those Gravis Ultrasound cards... >ANYONE who had one RAVED about how good they sounded...then came crying for >help cuz no game ran without a patch or soundfont or some such thing..heheh

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>dave henrie >"pez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:8nlv0d$oru$[email hidden]... >> id say Ultrasound sound cards (which were WAY better than sb cards) are a >> better analogy...... >> >> pez >> Regular Racer wrote in message ... >> >Whew, I'm going to get flamed with this post. Anyways, I could be wrong >> but >> >here's how I see it. >> > >> >1] Voodoo 4 >> >What happened to this card? (I think 3dfx fell so far behind, they >> >abandoned it) I've e-mailed their website inquiring about it but I have >yet >> >to receive a response. >> > >> >2] 3DFX put all their "marbles" on the V5 and now.....NVidia has come >out >> >with the GeForce Ultra 2 and ATI's Radeon. Now, 3DFX is really in hole. >> >What are they going to do now? SLI 2 Voodoo 5's together powered by an >> >external generator and UPS unit? >> > >> >3] As I stated in a different post, the reason why 3DFX became popular >was >> >because of Direct 3D's problems. Now Microsoft has ironed out a lot of >> >Direct 3D's problems. >> > >> > Conclusion, don't get me wrong...I got a hell of a lot of >playability >> >out of my Voodoo 2 and I loved the card. However....Just as the ADLIB >> >soundcard disappeared.....I believe that Direct 3D is the future of >> >graphical PC applications. >> > >> >-Cheers! (I've got my battle armour waiting to be slammed by the V5 >> >zealots) <grin> >> > >> > >> >> > >

As someone who has owned both a Voodoo5 and a GeForce2 I find the nVidia card more to my liking. I know nVidia have a reputation for incompatible drivers but i've tested around 25 games so far on the GeForce 2 with the new Detonator 3 drivers and I'm yet to find *any* problems. "Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote > Whew, I'm going to get flamed with this post. Anyways, I could be wrongbut > here's how I see it. ><snip> > > -Cheers! (I've got my battle armour waiting to be slammed by the V5 > zealots) <grin>

You running a peltier cooler on that thing? 1.2GHz!?!?!? That ain't bad at all. As for the GeForce2, haven't locked it up yet<crosses fingers> ::) OCing the RAM helps more than pushing the core, so hangs/etc. aren't that bad. In article <[email hidden]>, "Alexander Marx" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > it doesn't look fantastic! The performance gains produced by OCingthe > > memory bus on Nvidia cards really put the GeForce2 GTS andespecially

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> > the Ultra a leap ahead of the V5 5500. <GTS clocked to 220MHz > > core/415MHz RAM> > > happy crashing then. > > I run my V3 overclocked and overticked at 1245 mhz and it smokes the > competition, hell it smokes so much that I can't see a damn thing in

here.. > :) > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

I remember those Gravis Ultrasound cards... ANYONE who had one RAVED about how good they sounded...then came crying for help cuz no game ran without a patch or soundfont or some such thing.. heheh dave henrie "pez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8nlv0d$oru$[email hidden]...

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> id say Ultrasound sound cards (which were WAY better than sb cards) are a > better analogy...... > > pez > Regular Racer wrote in message ... > >Whew, I'm going to get flamed with this post. Anyways, I could be wrong > but > >here's how I see it. > > > >1] Voodoo 4 > >What happened to this card? (I think 3dfx fell so far behind, they > >abandoned it) I've e-mailed their website inquiring about it but I have

yet > >to receive a response. > > > >2] 3DFX put all their "marbles" on the V5 and now.....NVidia has comeout > >with the GeForce Ultra 2 and ATI's Radeon. Now, 3DFX is really in hole. > >What are they going to do now? SLI 2 Voodoo 5's together powered by an > >external generator and UPS unit? > > > >3] As I stated in a different post, the reason why 3DFX became popularwas > >because of Direct 3D's problems. Now Microsoft has ironed out a lot of > >Direct 3D's problems. > > > > Conclusion, don't get me wrong...I got a hell of a lot ofplayability

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> >out of my Voodoo 2 and I loved the card. However....Just as the ADLIB > >soundcard disappeared.....I believe that Direct 3D is the future of > >graphical PC applications. > > > >-Cheers! (I've got my battle armour waiting to be slammed by the V5 > >zealots) <grin> > > > > > >

Just having a little fun! Things are too serious in here. In the end, everyone buys what best fits their situation/preferences...no big deal. In article <[email hidden]>, NOMAIL wrote: > On Sat, 19 Aug 2000 19:18:58 GMT, [email hidden] thus spoke: > > >When you come bragging, bring your benchmarks. :;)) I would put myGF2 > >against any Voodoo5, let alone V3...did you find a way to UNDERclock > >the GF2??? > Twat. > -- > Nos > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

On Sun, 20 Aug 2000 04:39:06 GMT, [email hidden] thus spoke: >Just having a little fun! Things are too serious in here. In the end, >everyone buys what best fits their situation/preferences...no big deal. Hehe..NP. I'm never serious. Even when in flame mode. :-) -- Nos