Re: Sick of I-Force wheels that only work when turning

Quite simply, Marc, I find FF to be too much of a gimmick at this point. I have a Saitek FF wheel that's gathering dust because while the FF effects are nice at first, they eventually become nothing more than a distraction in the long run. If a FF wheel ONLY simulated the forces that you would REALLY feel through a real steering wheel, it would so anticlimactic that you wouldn't even consider spending the money; as it is, some of the forces that they do try to duplicate through the wheel's motion are wholly unrealistic -- like trying to cram ALL the forces acting on the car directly to the steering wheel. This may be a bit of a gross exaggeration to some degree, but although some aspects of FF can seem very nice, the overall implementation is still very, very immature. If someone could incorporate SUBTLE FF effects into a steering wheel that was coupled to a motion platform, then THAT would be a nice FF rig, but I don't think my wife would let me keep on in the living room, so, for me, it's something of a moot point. <G> --JB In article <i4Qp5.18$[email hidden]>, "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote: > Now I see Slot that has got a fix for the FFB in NH (which I haven'teven > got yet) because you can't feel anything even when you slam into awall > unless the wheel is turning! I have been whining for months aboutthis > problem in GPL. Recently it has become clear that it is not just the > Ferrari wheel that does this, but all I-Force based wheels. This istoo > pathetic to describe. Shouldn't this be able to be cured with adecent > driver update???? > > It seems impossible to get proper feedback and smooth operation atthe same > time. You can have one or the other, but not both! Please tell methat it > is theoretically possible to have both and we just have to bug I-Force long > and forcefully enough for them to fix this. > > Marc. > > -- >************************************************************************ **** > Marc Collins > [email hidden] > > Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change > to take effect. Reboot now? >************************************************************************ **** > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Now I see Slot that has got a fix for the FFB in NH (which I haven't even got yet) because you can't feel anything even when you slam into a wall unless the wheel is turning! I have been whining for months about this problem in GPL. Recently it has become clear that it is not just the Ferrari wheel that does this, but all I-Force based wheels. This is too pathetic to describe. Shouldn't this be able to be cured with a decent driver update???? It seems impossible to get proper feedback and smooth operation at the same time. You can have one or the other, but not both! Please tell me that it is theoretically possible to have both and we just have to bug I-Force long and forcefully enough for them to fix this. Marc. -- **************************************************************************** Marc Collins [email hidden] Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change to take effect. Reboot now? ****************************************************************************

I think we have both now, Mark, just in the wrong games. NFS3, NFS:PU, MidtownMadness just to name a few have smooth wheel performance and excellent FF, not sim like in all cases, but strong. NFS:PU should be a model for game makers of what to include in the FF setup menu. MGPRS2 is also quite good as it uses iForce Studio, so you can change anything you don't like about the FF, it's just to complex for the average racer. -- Slot www.slottweak.com Tweaks & Reviews "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:i4Qp5.18$[email hidden]... > Now I see Slot that has got a fix for the FFB in NH (which I haven't even > got yet) because you can't feel anything even when you slam into a wall > unless the wheel is turning! I have been whining for months about this > problem in GPL. Recently it has become clear that it is not just the > Ferrari wheel that does this, but all I-Force based wheels. This is too > pathetic to describe. Shouldn't this be able to be cured with a decent > driver update???? > > It seems impossible to get proper feedback and smooth operation at the same > time. You can have one or the other, but not both! Please tell me that it > is theoretically possible to have both and we just have to bug I-Force long > and forcefully enough for them to fix this. > > Marc. > > -- > **************************************************************************** > Marc Collins > [email hidden] > > Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change > to take effect. Reboot now? > **************************************************************************** > > >

Marc Collins <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:i4Qp5.18$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (9 lines)

> Now I see Slot that has got a fix for the FFB in NH (which I haven't even > got yet) because you can't feel anything even when you slam into a wall > unless the wheel is turning! I have been whining for months about this > problem in GPL. Recently it has become clear that it is not just the > Ferrari wheel that does this, but all I-Force based wheels. This is too > pathetic to describe. Shouldn't this be able to be cured with a decent > driver update???? > > It seems impossible to get proper feedback and smooth operation at the

same > time. You can have one or the other, but not both! Please tell me thatit > is theoretically possible to have both and we just have to bug I-Forcelong > and forcefully enough for them to fix this. > > Marc. >GPL is very clever about this though as the unstable car forces the wheels off centre...very devious:-)

> Recently it has become clear that it is not just the > Ferrari wheel that does this, but all I-Force based wheels. Well, actually the MS based wheels seem to do the same in NH... Zolli

<[email hidden]> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag: 8o90t1$1nd$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (12 lines)

> Quite simply, Marc, I find FF to be too much of a gimmick at this > point. I have a Saitek FF wheel that's gathering dust because while > the FF effects are nice at first, they eventually become nothing more > than a distraction in the long run. If a FF wheel ONLY simulated the > forces that you would REALLY feel through a real steering wheel, it > would so anticlimactic that you wouldn't even consider spending the > money; as it is, some of the forces that they do try to duplicate > through the wheel's motion are wholly unrealistic -- like trying to > cram ALL the forces acting on the car directly to the steering wheel. > This may be a bit of a gross exaggeration to some degree, but although > some aspects of FF can seem very nice, the overall implementation is > still very, very immature.

Then you should like NH's FF. AFAIK it consists of only one constantly calculated effect. Hence the prob with crashes: They can only be felt under certain conditions as there is no distinct effect for them. Zolli

Just a tad off the mark, Guenter. In real life you can feel road transitions and seams through the wheel. What NH has done is narrow the FF bandwidth so you can't feel any FF unless the wheel is turned. You can demonstrate this by holding your wheel still and straight. Drive from the infield up a highbank, you won't feel the transition. Smash into the wall and still nothing. But if you turn the wheel slightly you will feel both. Actually, they have effects for everything including road seams. I've even felt the chassis drag while going up a bank. One of the things I did in my FF patch was to open the FF bandwidth. In effect, with the standard NH setup there is no FF if the wheel is straight. -- Slot www.slottweak.com Tweaks & Reviews "Guenter Zollfrank" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8o9keh$2fk6$[email hidden]... > > <[email hidden]> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag: > 8o90t1$1nd$[email hidden]... > > Quite simply, Marc, I find FF to be too much of a gimmick at this > > point. I have a Saitek FF wheel that's gathering dust because while > > the FF effects are nice at first, they eventually become nothing more > > than a distraction in the long run. If a FF wheel ONLY simulated the > > forces that you would REALLY feel through a real steering wheel, it > > would so anticlimactic that you wouldn't even consider spending the > > money; as it is, some of the forces that they do try to duplicate > > through the wheel's motion are wholly unrealistic -- like trying to > > cram ALL the forces acting on the car directly to the steering wheel. > > This may be a bit of a gross exaggeration to some degree, but although > > some aspects of FF can seem very nice, the overall implementation is > > still very, very immature. > > Then you should like NH's FF. > AFAIK it consists of only one constantly calculated effect. > Hence the prob with crashes: They can only be felt under certain conditions > as there is no distinct effect for them. > > Zolli > >

GTX_SlotCar <[email hidden]> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag: 6Xaq5.7983$[email hidden]... > Just a tad off the mark, Guenter. In real life you can feel roadtransitions > and seams through the wheel. What NH has done is narrow the FF bandwidthso

Quoted text (7 lines)

> you can't feel any FF unless the wheel is turned. You can demonstrate this > by holding your wheel still and straight. Drive from the infield up a > highbank, you won't feel the transition. Smash into the wall and still > nothing. But if you turn the wheel slightly you will feel both. Actually, > they have effects for everything including road seams. I've even felt the > chassis drag while going up a bank. One of the things I did in my FF patch > was to open the FF bandwidth. In effect, with the standard NH setup there

is > no FF if the wheel is straight. > I tried your FF settings, but with my Wheel (and my settings in controller options) I was not able to drive a straight line. Do you use a lot of linearity? Also: Could you explain in detail what those commands in options.cfg really change? This would be a great help for everybody who wants to tweak those settings. TIA Zolli

Guenter, My wheel is usually set to linear. Sometimes it's one click off and so is the overshoot. I'm at work right now, but if I have time tonight I'll try to put something up on the site, including my new FOB settings. I've brought them right to the limits now and the blind spot is totally gone. I just didn't have time to do this before, and wasn't sure how the full game version would handle it. -- Slot Tweaks & Reviews www.slottweak.com "Guenter Zollfrank" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8oc4jk$5kb$[email hidden]... > GTX_SlotCar <[email hidden]> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag: > 6Xaq5.7983$[email hidden]... > > Just a tad off the mark, Guenter. In real life you can feel road > transitions > > and seams through the wheel. What NH has done is narrow the FF bandwidth > so > > you can't feel any FF unless the wheel is turned. You can demonstrate this > > by holding your wheel still and straight. Drive from the infield up a > > highbank, you won't feel the transition. Smash into the wall and still > > nothing. But if you turn the wheel slightly you will feel both. Actually, > > they have effects for everything including road seams. I've even felt the > > chassis drag while going up a bank. One of the things I did in my FF patch > > was to open the FF bandwidth. In effect, with the standard NH setup there > is > > no FF if the wheel is straight. > > > > I tried your FF settings, but with my Wheel (and my settings in controller > options) I was not able to drive a straight line. Do you use a lot of > linearity? > Also: Could you explain in detail what those commands in options.cfg really > change? > This would be a great help for everybody who wants to tweak those settings. > > TIA > Zolli > >

Change FOB to FOV. Damned spell corrector, I meant to hit ignore ;) -- Slot www.slottweak.com Tweaks & Reviews "GTX_SlotCar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Hyyq5.8707$[email hidden]... > Guenter, > > My wheel is usually set to linear. Sometimes it's one click off and so is > the overshoot. > I'm at work right now, but if I have time tonight I'll try to put something > up on the site, including my new FOB settings. I've brought them right to > the limits now and the blind spot is totally gone. I just didn't have time > to do this before, and wasn't sure how the full game version would handle > it. > > -- > Slot > > Tweaks & Reviews > www.slottweak.com > "Guenter Zollfrank" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:8oc4jk$5kb$[email hidden]... > > GTX_SlotCar <[email hidden]> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag: > > 6Xaq5.7983$[email hidden]... > > > Just a tad off the mark, Guenter. In real life you can feel road > > transitions > > > and seams through the wheel. What NH has done is narrow the FF bandwidth > > so > > > you can't feel any FF unless the wheel is turned. You can demonstrate > this > > > by holding your wheel still and straight. Drive from the infield up a > > > highbank, you won't feel the transition. Smash into the wall and still > > > nothing. But if you turn the wheel slightly you will feel both. > Actually, > > > they have effects for everything including road seams. I've even felt > the > > > chassis drag while going up a bank. One of the things I did in my FF > patch > > > was to open the FF bandwidth. In effect, with the standard NH setup > there > > is > > > no FF if the wheel is straight. > > > > > > > I tried your FF settings, but with my Wheel (and my settings in controller > > options) I was not able to drive a straight line. Do you use a lot of > > linearity? > > Also: Could you explain in detail what those commands in options.cfg > really > > change? > > This would be a great help for everybody who wants to tweak those > settings. > > > > TIA > > Zolli > > > > > >