Re: r.a.s quality mark for sims?

You raise a very, VERY good point, Chris. Since Games-Advertising has signed such a large cadre of professional racers available for beta testing, we have been trying to come up with some sort of criteria that could be used to determine the relative "sim-ness" of a title. Our basic concept revolves around our "Pro Approved" concept, but we haven't yet hammered out the rating criteria. This newsgroup could come in handy in that respect, as we ARE the targeted sim audience, and I would welcome any feedback. We do have some other internal issues to deal with as well -- one concept would be to have a single "Pro Approved" rating, that would only be assigned if the sim met certain minimum criteria. This approach is problematic in that only those sims that approached full GPL levels would be eligible, and, given that, things like N3, NASCAR Legends, SCGT, GP3, F1 2000, NFSPU, and NASCAR Heat might have to fall by the wayside, which might be a bit harsh IMO. I am personally in favor of a multi-tiered system that would award various "Pro Approved" levels -- this would make something like GPL or WSC (if it pans out) eligible for a "Gold" Pro Approved certification level, while things like F1 2000 and Viper Racing would possibly merit a "Silver" rating, and NFSPU and N3 would rank at the "Bronze" level (nothing harsh intended about N3, but since it only uses a 2-D physics model, it would most likely not merit a "Gold" rating, I wouldn't think). If you'd like to look at where we've gone so far with the Pro Approved concept, check out the Web site at: http://www.proapproved.com/ We will consider any discussion that stems from this in determining our Pro Approved criteria, and if any of you would like to volunteer to join in or head up (you interested, Chris?) a private discussion group on this matter, please let me know. -- John Bodin VP Communications, Games-Advertising http://www.games-advertising.com/ e-mail: [email hidden] P.S. Please send any e-mail responses to the address above -- I rarely check my deja account. <G> In article <8obv08$hne$[email hidden]>, "Chris Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote: > This newsgroup maybe or maybe not the place for this, but with all the > bitching that has gone on about new titles just lately, I wonder ifit would > be feasible for the race sim community to come up with some sort ofgeneric > quality hallmark for sims? > > This would take the form of a logo which publishers could put on their > packaging, once they had met the agreed standard. Perhaps the wholesystem > could be co-ordinated by an alliance of the most respected sim racing > websites? > > Crucial to the whole thing would be the formation of a minimumcriteria for > successful assessment. Although it would be hotly contested, thiscould be > compiled following a period of consultation with submissions fromanybody > interested enough to make their contribution. > > The establishment of criteria would lay certain design goals as beingsacred > for accreditation. Things like a save game feature and three axiswheel > support somehow immediately spring to mind... > > From many years of reading this ng, I think it is often the omissionsin > game content, rather than faults with the inclusions, that tend tocause > most distress. Surely a system like this, offering compliantpublishers a > marketing advantage, > would do much to raise sims to the standards we all crave? > > I'll let this one filter out into the community to see if anyonewishes to > take up the idea. > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

good idea impossible to implement! people would still disagree, and then the accolade would be devalued -- Kieran www.pcracing.co.uk for GP3 and WSC Ed Bain <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 21:52:08 +0100, "Chris Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I wonder if it would > >be feasible for the race sim community to come up with some sort of generic > >quality hallmark for sims? > > Nope .. :) >

This newsgroup maybe or maybe not the place for this, but with all the bitching that has gone on about new titles just lately, I wonder if it would be feasible for the race sim community to come up with some sort of generic quality hallmark for sims? This would take the form of a logo which publishers could put on their packaging, once they had met the agreed standard. Perhaps the whole system could be co-ordinated by an alliance of the most respected sim racing websites? Crucial to the whole thing would be the formation of a minimum criteria for successful assessment. Although it would be hotly contested, this could be compiled following a period of consultation with submissions from anybody interested enough to make their contribution. The establishment of criteria would lay certain design goals as being sacred for accreditation. Things like a save game feature and three axis wheel support somehow immediately spring to mind... From many years of reading this ng, I think it is often the omissions in game content, rather than faults with the inclusions, that tend to cause most distress. Surely a system like this, offering compliant publishers a marketing advantage, would do much to raise sims to the standards we all crave? I'll let this one filter out into the community to see if anyone wishes to take up the idea.

On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 21:56:29 GMT, [email hidden] wrote: >This newsgroup could come in handy in that respect, as we ARE the >targeted sim audience, I may be completely wrong (and often am) but if you counted up everyone who reads r.a.s. and everyone who visits all the top sim racing websites, you still wouldn't have enough people to make a meaningful blip on a large company's radar screen as far as sales go for a successful sim. The people in this NG and on those sites already know what they think about the sims and people who aren't aware of the websites or the NG aren't going to care what we think. Would *YOU* buy or not buy anything based on the "rating" of a bunch of usenet junkies in a NG bickering amongst themselves about their opinions? It's just my impression, but thinking our collective opinion (as if there was such a thing) is important enough to be considered a 'rating' for the general public seems terribly egotistical. I have enough perspective not to think my *hobby* has any real world relevance. Make no mistake about it. Dale Jarrett or Bobby Labonte or Jeff Gordon pointing at a TV camera and saying "This is a great game. Buy it." will sell a bazillion copies of a sim, but the "r.a.s. seal of approval" will sell about 0. ~daxe

I like this idea... I don't have the skill to formalize this on the web, but if anyone wanting to take the next step needs help brainstorming and/or for monkey work, I'm willing to invest some time on behalf of a good cause. My E-mail address should be fairly easy to unscramble. Jan. =--- Chris Wright wrote... > I wonder if it would be feasible for the race sim community to > come up with some sort of generic quality hallmark for sims? > <snip>

Hmmm, I'm agreeing with JB on this one. Good conceptual website JB. To raise the stakes even further, I wonder if someone with connections (Say like Alison Hines) could get REAL racer drivers to give their inputs (of course they would have to remain anonymous but you could say "a professional NASCAR driver stated...".... But then again, what do I know? -Cheers! <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8oc2q6$8kc$[email hidden]...

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> You raise a very, VERY good point, Chris. Since Games-Advertising has > signed such a large cadre of professional racers available for beta > testing, we have been trying to come up with some sort of criteria that > could be used to determine the relative "sim-ness" of a title. Our > basic concept revolves around our "Pro Approved" concept, but we > haven't yet hammered out the rating criteria. > > This newsgroup could come in handy in that respect, as we ARE the > targeted sim audience, and I would welcome any feedback. We do have > some other internal issues to deal with as well -- one concept would be > to have a single "Pro Approved" rating, that would only be assigned if > the sim met certain minimum criteria. This approach is problematic in > that only those sims that approached full GPL levels would be eligible, > and, given that, things like N3, NASCAR Legends, SCGT, GP3, F1 2000, > NFSPU, and NASCAR Heat might have to fall by the wayside, which might > be a bit harsh IMO. I am personally in favor of a multi-tiered system > that would award various "Pro Approved" levels -- this would make > something like GPL or WSC (if it pans out) eligible for a "Gold" Pro > Approved certification level, while things like F1 2000 and Viper > Racing would possibly merit a "Silver" rating, and NFSPU and N3 would > rank at the "Bronze" level (nothing harsh intended about N3, but since > it only uses a 2-D physics model, it would most likely not merit > a "Gold" rating, I wouldn't think). > > If you'd like to look at where we've gone so far with the Pro Approved > concept, check out the Web site at: > > http://www.proapproved.com/ > > We will consider any discussion that stems from this in determining our > Pro Approved criteria, and if any of you would like to volunteer to > join in or head up (you interested, Chris?) a private discussion group > on this matter, please let me know. > > -- John Bodin > VP Communications, Games-Advertising > http://www.games-advertising.com/ > > e-mail: [email hidden] > > P.S. Please send any e-mail responses to the address above -- I rarely > check my deja account. <G> > > In article <8obv08$hne$[email hidden]>, > "Chris Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > This newsgroup maybe or maybe not the place for this, but with all the > > bitching that has gone on about new titles just lately, I wonder if > it would > > be feasible for the race sim community to come up with some sort of > generic > > quality hallmark for sims? > > > > This would take the form of a logo which publishers could put on their > > packaging, once they had met the agreed standard. Perhaps the whole > system > > could be co-ordinated by an alliance of the most respected sim racing > > websites? > > > > Crucial to the whole thing would be the formation of a minimum > criteria for > > successful assessment. Although it would be hotly contested, this > could be > > compiled following a period of consultation with submissions from > anybody > > interested enough to make their contribution. > > > > The establishment of criteria would lay certain design goals as being > sacred > > for accreditation. Things like a save game feature and three axis > wheel > > support somehow immediately spring to mind... > > > > From many years of reading this ng, I think it is often the omissions > in > > game content, rather than faults with the inclusions, that tend to > cause > > most distress. Surely a system like this, offering compliant > publishers a > > marketing advantage, > > would do much to raise sims to the standards we all crave? > > > > I'll let this one filter out into the community to see if anyone > wishes to > > take up the idea. > > > > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.

" But in the end it would come down to money. Some scoundrel like me would sell any publisher the gold seal of RAS approval for the right amount of cash. By golly Le Mans Test Droveanderasedit could become our highest ranking title... dave henrie

Did you click-through the Pro Approved logo and click on some of the links? We DO have real racers on-tap to serve as beta testers, including some names you might have heard of before -- like some NASCAR driver's kid named "Dale Jr.," for instance . . . ;-) -- JB In article <4miq5.448$[email hidden]>, "Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote: > Hmmm, I'm agreeing with JB on this one. Good conceptual websiteJB. > To raise the stakes even further, I wonder if someone withconnections (Say > like Alison Hines) could get REAL racer drivers to give their inputs(of > course they would have to remain anonymous but you could say "aprofessional > NASCAR driver stated...".... > But then again, what do I know? > > -Cheers! > > <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8oc2q6$8kc$[email hidden]... > > You raise a very, VERY good point, Chris. Since Games-Advertisinghas > > signed such a large cadre of professional racers available for beta > > testing, we have been trying to come up with some sort of criteriathat

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> > could be used to determine the relative "sim-ness" of a title. Our > > basic concept revolves around our "Pro Approved" concept, but we > > haven't yet hammered out the rating criteria. > > > > This newsgroup could come in handy in that respect, as we ARE the > > targeted sim audience, and I would welcome any feedback. We do have > > some other internal issues to deal with as well -- one concept

would be > > to have a single "Pro Approved" rating, that would only be assignedif > > the sim met certain minimum criteria. This approach is problematicin > > that only those sims that approached full GPL levels would beeligible, > > and, given that, things like N3, NASCAR Legends, SCGT, GP3, F1 2000, > > NFSPU, and NASCAR Heat might have to fall by the wayside, whichmight > > be a bit harsh IMO. I am personally in favor of a multi-tieredsystem > > that would award various "Pro Approved" levels -- this would make > > something like GPL or WSC (if it pans out) eligible for a "Gold" Pro > > Approved certification level, while things like F1 2000 and Viper > > Racing would possibly merit a "Silver" rating, and NFSPU and N3would > > rank at the "Bronze" level (nothing harsh intended about N3, butsince > > it only uses a 2-D physics model, it would most likely not merit > > a "Gold" rating, I wouldn't think). > > > > If you'd like to look at where we've gone so far with the ProApproved > > concept, check out the Web site at: > > > > http://www.proapproved.com/ > > > > We will consider any discussion that stems from this in determiningour > > Pro Approved criteria, and if any of you would like to volunteer to > > join in or head up (you interested, Chris?) a private discussiongroup

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> > on this matter, please let me know. > > > > -- John Bodin > > VP Communications, Games-Advertising > > http://www.games-advertising.com/ > > > > e-mail: [email hidden] > > > > P.S. Please send any e-mail responses to the address above -- I

rarely > > check my deja account. <G> > > > > In article <8obv08$hne$[email hidden]>, > > "Chris Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > This newsgroup maybe or maybe not the place for this, but withall the > > > bitching that has gone on about new titles just lately, I wonderif > > it would > > > be feasible for the race sim community to come up with some sortof > > generic > > > quality hallmark for sims? > > > > > > This would take the form of a logo which publishers could put ontheir > > > packaging, once they had met the agreed standard. Perhaps thewhole > > system > > > could be co-ordinated by an alliance of the most respected simracing

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> > > websites? > > > > > > Crucial to the whole thing would be the formation of a minimum > > criteria for > > > successful assessment. Although it would be hotly contested, this > > could be > > > compiled following a period of consultation with submissions from > > anybody > > > interested enough to make their contribution. > > > > > > The establishment of criteria would lay certain design goals as

being > > sacred > > > for accreditation. Things like a save game feature and three axis > > wheel > > > support somehow immediately spring to mind... > > > > > > From many years of reading this ng, I think it is often theomissions

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> > in > > > game content, rather than faults with the inclusions, that tend to > > cause > > > most distress. Surely a system like this, offering compliant > > publishers a > > > marketing advantage, > > > would do much to raise sims to the standards we all crave? > > > > > > I'll let this one filter out into the community to see if anyone > > wishes to > > > take up the idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > Before you buy. > >

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Never fear on that count -- Don Wilshe keeps me on a short leash! ;-) -- JB In article <Cbjq5.31005$[email hidden]>, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > " But in the end it would come down to money. Some scoundrel likeme would > sell any publisher the gold seal of RAS approval for the right amountof > cash. By golly Le Mans Test Droveanderasedit could become our highest > ranking title... > dave henrie > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Dale Jarret Jr? <grin> <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8ock9r$rkq$[email hidden]...

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> Did you click-through the Pro Approved logo and click on some of the > links? We DO have real racers on-tap to serve as beta testers, > including some names you might have heard of before -- like some NASCAR > driver's kid named "Dale Jr.," for instance . . . > > ;-) > > -- JB > > In article <4miq5.448$[email hidden]>, > "Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > Hmmm, I'm agreeing with JB on this one. Good conceptual website > JB. > > To raise the stakes even further, I wonder if someone with > connections (Say > > like Alison Hines) could get REAL racer drivers to give their inputs > (of > > course they would have to remain anonymous but you could say "a > professional > > NASCAR driver stated...".... > > But then again, what do I know? > > > > -Cheers! > > > > <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8oc2q6 > $8kc$[email hidden]... > > > You raise a very, VERY good point, Chris. Since Games-Advertising > has > > > signed such a large cadre of professional racers available for beta > > > testing, we have been trying to come up with some sort of criteria > that > > > could be used to determine the relative "sim-ness" of a title. Our > > > basic concept revolves around our "Pro Approved" concept, but we > > > haven't yet hammered out the rating criteria. > > > > > > This newsgroup could come in handy in that respect, as we ARE the > > > targeted sim audience, and I would welcome any feedback. We do have > > > some other internal issues to deal with as well -- one concept > would be > > > to have a single "Pro Approved" rating, that would only be assigned > if > > > the sim met certain minimum criteria. This approach is problematic > in > > > that only those sims that approached full GPL levels would be > eligible, > > > and, given that, things like N3, NASCAR Legends, SCGT, GP3, F1 2000, > > > NFSPU, and NASCAR Heat might have to fall by the wayside, which > might > > > be a bit harsh IMO. I am personally in favor of a multi-tiered > system > > > that would award various "Pro Approved" levels -- this would make > > > something like GPL or WSC (if it pans out) eligible for a "Gold" Pro > > > Approved certification level, while things like F1 2000 and Viper > > > Racing would possibly merit a "Silver" rating, and NFSPU and N3 > would > > > rank at the "Bronze" level (nothing harsh intended about N3, but > since > > > it only uses a 2-D physics model, it would most likely not merit > > > a "Gold" rating, I wouldn't think). > > > > > > If you'd like to look at where we've gone so far with the Pro > Approved > > > concept, check out the Web site at: > > > > > > http://www.proapproved.com/ > > > > > > We will consider any discussion that stems from this in determining > our > > > Pro Approved criteria, and if any of you would like to volunteer to > > > join in or head up (you interested, Chris?) a private discussion > group > > > on this matter, please let me know. > > > > > > -- John Bodin > > > VP Communications, Games-Advertising > > > http://www.games-advertising.com/ > > > > > > e-mail: [email hidden] > > > > > > P.S. Please send any e-mail responses to the address above -- I > rarely > > > check my deja account. <G> > > > > > > In article <8obv08$hne$[email hidden]>, > > > "Chris Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > This newsgroup maybe or maybe not the place for this, but with > all the > > > > bitching that has gone on about new titles just lately, I wonder > if > > > it would > > > > be feasible for the race sim community to come up with some sort > of > > > generic > > > > quality hallmark for sims? > > > > > > > > This would take the form of a logo which publishers could put on > their > > > > packaging, once they had met the agreed standard. Perhaps the > whole > > > system > > > > could be co-ordinated by an alliance of the most respected sim > racing > > > > websites? > > > > > > > > Crucial to the whole thing would be the formation of a minimum > > > criteria for > > > > successful assessment. Although it would be hotly contested, this > > > could be > > > > compiled following a period of consultation with submissions from > > > anybody > > > > interested enough to make their contribution. > > > > > > > > The establishment of criteria would lay certain design goals as > being > > > sacred > > > > for accreditation. Things like a save game feature and three axis > > > wheel > > > > support somehow immediately spring to mind... > > > > > > > > From many years of reading this ng, I think it is often the > omissions > > > in > > > > game content, rather than faults with the inclusions, that tend to > > > cause > > > > most distress. Surely a system like this, offering compliant > > > publishers a > > > > marketing advantage, > > > > would do much to raise sims to the standards we all crave? > > > > > > > > I'll let this one filter out into the community to see if anyone > > > wishes to > > > > take up the idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > > Before you buy. > > > > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.

Peachy....Now if ya' could just get that Montoya kid on there............... <grin> <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8ock9r$rkq$[email hidden]...

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> Did you click-through the Pro Approved logo and click on some of the > links? We DO have real racers on-tap to serve as beta testers, > including some names you might have heard of before -- like some NASCAR > driver's kid named "Dale Jr.," for instance . . . > > ;-) > > -- JB > > In article <4miq5.448$[email hidden]>, > "Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > Hmmm, I'm agreeing with JB on this one. Good conceptual website > JB. > > To raise the stakes even further, I wonder if someone with > connections (Say > > like Alison Hines) could get REAL racer drivers to give their inputs > (of > > course they would have to remain anonymous but you could say "a > professional > > NASCAR driver stated...".... > > But then again, what do I know? > > > > -Cheers! > > > > <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8oc2q6 > $8kc$[email hidden]... > > > You raise a very, VERY good point, Chris. Since Games-Advertising > has > > > signed such a large cadre of professional racers available for beta > > > testing, we have been trying to come up with some sort of criteria > that > > > could be used to determine the relative "sim-ness" of a title. Our > > > basic concept revolves around our "Pro Approved" concept, but we > > > haven't yet hammered out the rating criteria. > > > > > > This newsgroup could come in handy in that respect, as we ARE the > > > targeted sim audience, and I would welcome any feedback. We do have > > > some other internal issues to deal with as well -- one concept > would be > > > to have a single "Pro Approved" rating, that would only be assigned > if > > > the sim met certain minimum criteria. This approach is problematic > in > > > that only those sims that approached full GPL levels would be > eligible, > > > and, given that, things like N3, NASCAR Legends, SCGT, GP3, F1 2000, > > > NFSPU, and NASCAR Heat might have to fall by the wayside, which > might > > > be a bit harsh IMO. I am personally in favor of a multi-tiered > system > > > that would award various "Pro Approved" levels -- this would make > > > something like GPL or WSC (if it pans out) eligible for a "Gold" Pro > > > Approved certification level, while things like F1 2000 and Viper > > > Racing would possibly merit a "Silver" rating, and NFSPU and N3 > would > > > rank at the "Bronze" level (nothing harsh intended about N3, but > since > > > it only uses a 2-D physics model, it would most likely not merit > > > a "Gold" rating, I wouldn't think). > > > > > > If you'd like to look at where we've gone so far with the Pro > Approved > > > concept, check out the Web site at: > > > > > > http://www.proapproved.com/ > > > > > > We will consider any discussion that stems from this in determining > our > > > Pro Approved criteria, and if any of you would like to volunteer to > > > join in or head up (you interested, Chris?) a private discussion > group > > > on this matter, please let me know. > > > > > > -- John Bodin > > > VP Communications, Games-Advertising > > > http://www.games-advertising.com/ > > > > > > e-mail: [email hidden] > > > > > > P.S. Please send any e-mail responses to the address above -- I > rarely > > > check my deja account. <G> > > > > > > In article <8obv08$hne$[email hidden]>, > > > "Chris Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > This newsgroup maybe or maybe not the place for this, but with > all the > > > > bitching that has gone on about new titles just lately, I wonder > if > > > it would > > > > be feasible for the race sim community to come up with some sort > of > > > generic > > > > quality hallmark for sims? > > > > > > > > This would take the form of a logo which publishers could put on > their > > > > packaging, once they had met the agreed standard. Perhaps the > whole > > > system > > > > could be co-ordinated by an alliance of the most respected sim > racing > > > > websites? > > > > > > > > Crucial to the whole thing would be the formation of a minimum > > > criteria for > > > > successful assessment. Although it would be hotly contested, this > > > could be > > > > compiled following a period of consultation with submissions from > > > anybody > > > > interested enough to make their contribution. > > > > > > > > The establishment of criteria would lay certain design goals as > being > > > sacred > > > > for accreditation. Things like a save game feature and three axis > > > wheel > > > > support somehow immediately spring to mind... > > > > > > > > From many years of reading this ng, I think it is often the > omissions > > > in > > > > game content, rather than faults with the inclusions, that tend to > > > cause > > > > most distress. Surely a system like this, offering compliant > > > publishers a > > > > marketing advantage, > > > > would do much to raise sims to the standards we all crave? > > > > > > > > I'll let this one filter out into the community to see if anyone > > > wishes to > > > > take up the idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > > Before you buy. > > > > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.

LOL! That WOULD be great -- I had hoped to talk with Montoya on this year's IMS media tour, but morning practice got rained out and Ganassi cancelled the stop at his shop so he could send Juan and Jeemy off to California to practice in the sunshine. I had intended to ask him about GPL and testing and such, but, alas, it wasn't to be. Great run at Indy, though! <G> -- JB In article <FNkq5.749$[email hidden]>, "Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote: > Peachy....Now if ya' could just get that Montoya kid onthere............... > > <grin> > > <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:8ock9r$rkq$[email hidden]... > > Did you click-through the Pro Approved logo and click on some of the > > links? We DO have real racers on-tap to serve as beta testers, > > including some names you might have heard of before -- like someNASCAR > > driver's kid named "Dale Jr.," for instance . . . > > > > ;-) > > > > -- JB Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.