Re: (OT) Villeneuve's Pass was better

if there was 'post of the day' award yours would win :) 9Wright7 wrote:

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> Rob Swindells <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I think Jacques Villeneuve passing Michael Schumacher around the outside > > of the last corner of the Estoril circuit in 1996 was a better manouver > > than Mika's last Sunday. > > > > However it's a shame that such on track action occurs so rarely that > > everyone gets over excited and calls it the greatest pass in F1's > > history. Gilles Villeneuve and Arnoux in '78 at the French GP pulled of > > passing manouver's a thousand times better at almost every corner for > > the last 3 laps! :) > > > > http://www.forix.com/asp/photos.asp?z=0&k=0&l=0&x=101&f=1979/08012_GM.JPG > > > > Also, the decision to start last weekend's Belgian GP behined the safety > > car was a complete joke. Are these guys the best drivers in the world or > > FFord drivers? I don't understand why it was called for... > > > > Rob > > > > Ron Denis has dubbed this as the best overtaking manoeuvre in F1 history. > Am I the only one who thinks this was harsh? > > I mean, this is how i saw it. > > Mika follows Michael down the straight, Zonta is just ahead. > > Mika moves to the right of Michael as stays left. Zonta moves tot he right. > Michael seems to want Mika to get behind Zonta as he goes offline, giving > Michael the racing line. > Michael's plans go slightly wrong as Zonta leaves room to the right for > Mika. > Mika keeps the boot in and has the inside line to the corner, which would > leave anyone able to take the line. Added to that was the fact that Mika was > doing a top speed almost 10mph faster than Schumacher *AND* Mika got a tow > from both Schumacher and Zonta!! > > I mean, it was good in the sense that Mika didn't back out when he went > behind Zonta, but it was luck that Zonta didn't go completely off line tot > the right side of the track but kept to the middle leaving space for Mika to > zip through. > He had a better top speed anyway and a tow from 2 cars all the way to the > corner. And he had the inside line. > > It was good...It just wasn't great. I mean, the move wasn't "all Mika". It > was 50% luck, 40% his speed and 10% the guts to keep the boot in when he > hadn't the room to pass originally. > > It was a very circumstantial pass IMO. Calling it the best pass ever is a > huge overstatement. There are a number of passes just in the last few > seasons that were tactically better (i.e. the driver was thinking and > anticipating his moves and the pass was not brought about because a back > marker got involved and he decided to strike on the spot.) not to mind over > the last 51 years! > > Thats my view... well done Mika for ahving the guts to do it, just don't get > too overexcited.

In article <[email hidden]>, Rob Swindells <[email hidden]> wrote: > I think Jacques Villeneuve passing Michael Schumacher around the >outside of the last corner of the Estoril circuit in 1996 was a > better manouver than Mika's last Sunday. Hmmmm. I think Jacques move took more nuts maybe, and had more risk (if Mika fails this attempt, no biggie, he's got him later) but I'm not sure Jacques execution was was better or worse. I was surprised at Mika's sudden attack of "imagination" :) Much as I dislike him, I had to hand it to him on that one. My GF and I (both rabid Scuderia fans) were watching, and when he pulled it off, we just looked at each like "oh chit... nothing we can do about that"... LOL. Congrats to Mika though, it was an out-of-character, imaginitive maneuver. I think Schumi was surprised. I was surprised. Especially cuz Mika would have had him on the next lap most likely IMO. > However it's a shame that such on track action occurs so rarely that > everyone gets over excited and calls it the greatest pass in F1's > history.[snip] Well said... stange state F1 is in these days. Also, IMO, Dennis is becoming more of a puttz everyday... I'm biased though, I bleed scarlet, but I try to not be a McLaren hater. Dennis gets a bit over the top w/some of his comments though. The treatment DC gets in that team in deferrence to Mika makes my GF so pissed... it's a crackup. > Also, the decision to start last weekend's Belgian GP behined thesafety > car was a complete joke. Are these guys the best drivers in the worldor > FFord drivers? I don't understand why it was called for... Agreed. Pretty pathetic choice. I do think it was influenced by the '98 carnage, but still, that's a pretty sad influence. I was kind of looking forward to some more (traffic thinning, hopefully McLaren-mincing) carnage. C'est la vie. Cheers. -=hammer Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

>I think Jacques Villeneuve passing Michael Schumacher around the outside >of the last corner of the Estoril circuit in 1996 was a better manouver >than Mika's last Sunday. I think it's just that passes get over-rated these days because they're so infrequent that everyone gets overexcited :-) Mansell on Berger at Mexico '90 was better, as was Mansell on Senna at Hungary '89. Mansell on Piquet at Silverstone '87 comes to mind as does Senna going around the outside of Lauda in the wet at Monaco '84... brave stuff :-) -- Cheers! Graeme Nash

>The best pass I ever saw was when Alex Zanardi passed Brian Herta by more or >less straight-lining the second part of the corkscrew at Laguna Seca. It >was positively crazy, and I still have a small doubt that it was entirely >deliberate. YES!!!!!!!!!!! CART!!!!!!!!!!!

Rob: I'm totally agree with your first part, those last laps were fantastic !!! Also, in 1978 Carlos Reutemann did a Mika-like pass to Niki Lauda in Brands Hatch. I'm not sure about the Belgium GP start was a bad decission; can you remember Spa start in 1998? "Rob Swindells" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I think Jacques Villeneuve passing Michael Schumacher around the outside > of the last corner of the Estoril circuit in 1996 was a better manouver > than Mika's last Sunday. > > However it's a shame that such on track action occurs so rarely that > everyone gets over excited and calls it the greatest pass in F1's > history. Gilles Villeneuve and Arnoux in '78 at the French GP pulled of > passing manouver's a thousand times better at almost every corner for > the last 3 laps! :) > > http://www.forix.com/asp/photos.asp?z=0&k=0&l=0&x=101&f=1979/08012_GM.JPG > > Also, the decision to start last weekend's Belgian GP behined the safety > car was a complete joke. Are these guys the best drivers in the world or > FFord drivers? I don't understand why it was called for... > > Rob >

The conditions at the start of the 1998 Belgian GP were a thousand times worse than those at the start of last Sunday's race. Anyway, it was DC's inability to keep control of his car that caused the '98 smash; no doubt he was on of them asking for the safety car this time. Alemira wrote:

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> Rob: I'm totally agree with your first part, those last laps were fantastic > !!! > Also, in 1978 Carlos Reutemann did a Mika-like pass to Niki Lauda in Brands > Hatch. > > I'm not sure about the Belgium GP start was a bad decission; can you > remember Spa start in 1998? > > "Rob Swindells" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I think Jacques Villeneuve passing Michael Schumacher around the outside > > of the last corner of the Estoril circuit in 1996 was a better manouver > > than Mika's last Sunday. > > > > However it's a shame that such on track action occurs so rarely that > > everyone gets over excited and calls it the greatest pass in F1's > > history. Gilles Villeneuve and Arnoux in '78 at the French GP pulled of > > passing manouver's a thousand times better at almost every corner for > > the last 3 laps! :) > > > > http://www.forix.com/asp/photos.asp?z=0&k=0&l=0&x=101&f=1979/08012_GM.JPG > > > > Also, the decision to start last weekend's Belgian GP behined the safety > > car was a complete joke. Are these guys the best drivers in the world or > > FFord drivers? I don't understand why it was called for... > > > > Rob > >

Where is Alex these days? "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:cT6r5.10519$[email hidden]... > The best pass I ever saw was when Alex Zanardi passed Brian Herta by moreor > less straight-lining the second part of the corkscrew at Laguna Seca. It > was positively crazy, and I still have a small doubt that it was entirely > deliberate.

>The best pass I ever saw was when Alex Zanardi passed Brian Herta by more or >less straight-lining the second part of the corkscrew at Laguna Seca. It >was positively crazy, and I still I think Greg Moore's pass on Zanardi at Rio(98?) was great, considering he came around him on the outside and slotted in with inches to spare. Also, the entire race at Burke Lakefront in 95 was a classic. I'd love to see F1 run at something so wode open. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Matt Gristina [email hidden] "I am tougher than a $2 steak" - Norman Smiley

On Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:12:56 GMT, "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> mangled uncounted electrons thus: <snip> >Mika's pass was pretty brave in my opinion. I forget who the back-marker >was, but if he'd moved over even a little when he saw Schumacher coming up >along side him, he'd have put Mika in the wall for sure. Also it'd be hard >to judge your braking point with such a limited view of the corner as he >had. And he wouldn't have known exactly where Michael was. The back-marker was Zonta, being lapped for the second time. ^_^ I understand he was somewhat... surprised... to see cars passing him on *both* sides... Martin D. Pay Wondering what colour his trousers were when he got out of the car... ^_-

In article <[email hidden]>, Rob Swindells <[email hidden]> writes: >Also, the decision to start last weekend's Belgian GP behined the safety >car was a complete joke. Are these guys the best drivers in the world or >FFord drivers? I don't understand why it was called for... > >Rob I was upset about that, too. Maybe they were remembering Coulthard's starting lap incident of a few years ago...? Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +50.77 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I think Jacques Villeneuve passing Michael Schumacher around the outside of the last corner of the Estoril circuit in 1996 was a better manouver than Mika's last Sunday. However it's a shame that such on track action occurs so rarely that everyone gets over excited and calls it the greatest pass in F1's history. Gilles Villeneuve and Arnoux in '78 at the French GP pulled of passing manouver's a thousand times better at almost every corner for the last 3 laps! :) http://www.forix.com/asp/photos.asp?z=0&k=0&l=0&x=101&f=1979/08012_GM.JPG Also, the decision to start last weekend's Belgian GP behined the safety car was a complete joke. Are these guys the best drivers in the world or FFord drivers? I don't understand why it was called for... Rob

The best pass I ever saw was when Alex Zanardi passed Brian Herta by more or less straight-lining the second part of the corkscrew at Laguna Seca. It was positively crazy, and I still have a small doubt that it was entirely deliberate. Mika's pass was pretty brave in my opinion. I forget who the back-marker was, but if he'd moved over even a little when he saw Schumacher coming up along side him, he'd have put Mika in the wall for sure. Also it'd be hard to judge your braking point with such a limited view of the corner as he had. And he wouldn't have known exactly where Michael was. "Rob Swindells" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I think Jacques Villeneuve passing Michael Schumacher around the outside > of the last corner of the Estoril circuit in 1996 was a better manouver > than Mika's last Sunday. > > However it's a shame that such on track action occurs so rarely that > everyone gets over excited and calls it the greatest pass in F1's > history. Gilles Villeneuve and Arnoux in '78 at the French GP pulled of > passing manouver's a thousand times better at almost every corner for > the last 3 laps! :) > > http://www.forix.com/asp/photos.asp?z=0&k=0&l=0&x=101&f=1979/08012_GM.JPG > > Also, the decision to start last weekend's Belgian GP behined the safety > car was a complete joke. Are these guys the best drivers in the world or > FFord drivers? I don't understand why it was called for... > > Rob >

Totally agree on Zanardi�s thing, that memory would last forever. Everybody got so wild, (Do you remember Ganassi�s face?) And BTW the backmarker was Ricardo Zonta. Personally think that this year Michigan�s CART finish was way over thrilling than that mika�s pass (wich was very good either). lito * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful

PERALTA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I always thought that was one of F1's greatest corners! -Cheers! "Dan Leach" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Cg8r5.39910$[email hidden]...

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> Mansell - overtaking berger round the outside into the almost flat out > peralta (last corner at mexico) > --- he always was a nutter.... > dan leach > "Rob Swindells" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I think Jacques Villeneuve passing Michael Schumacher around the outside > > of the last corner of the Estoril circuit in 1996 was a better manouver > > than Mika's last Sunday. > > > > However it's a shame that such on track action occurs so rarely that > > everyone gets over excited and calls it the greatest pass in F1's > > history. Gilles Villeneuve and Arnoux in '78 at the French GP pulled of > > passing manouver's a thousand times better at almost every corner for > > the last 3 laps! :) > > > >

http://www.forix.com/asp/photos.asp?z=0&k=0&l=0&x=101&f=1979/08012_GM.JPG

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> > > > Also, the decision to start last weekend's Belgian GP behined the safety > > car was a complete joke. Are these guys the best drivers in the world or > > FFord drivers? I don't understand why it was called for... > > > > Rob > > > >

Mansell - overtaking berger round the outside into the almost flat out peralta (last corner at mexico) --- he always was a nutter.... dan leach "Rob Swindells" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I think Jacques Villeneuve passing Michael Schumacher around the outside > of the last corner of the Estoril circuit in 1996 was a better manouver > than Mika's last Sunday. > > However it's a shame that such on track action occurs so rarely that > everyone gets over excited and calls it the greatest pass in F1's > history. Gilles Villeneuve and Arnoux in '78 at the French GP pulled of > passing manouver's a thousand times better at almost every corner for > the last 3 laps! :) > > http://www.forix.com/asp/photos.asp?z=0&k=0&l=0&x=101&f=1979/08012_GM.JPG > > Also, the decision to start last weekend's Belgian GP behined the safety > car was a complete joke. Are these guys the best drivers in the world or > FFord drivers? I don't understand why it was called for... > > Rob >

Waiting for a seat in a Honda Powered CART team. I expect you will see him back in CART next year. Mo Nunn has already offered him a drive but Nunn's team uses the anemic Mercedes Powerplant so I think Zanardi will pass on that offer. dave henrie "David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8oj79k$hi6$[email hidden]... > Where is Alex these days? > > "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:cT6r5.10519$[email hidden]... > > The best pass I ever saw was when Alex Zanardi passed Brian Herta bymore > or > > less straight-lining the second part of the corkscrew at Laguna Seca.It > > was positively crazy, and I still have a small doubt that it wasentirely > > deliberate. > > >

yes indeed, Mansells pass was the best and especially how Murray Walker described it. If I remember correctly, Walker said " Surely, he can't pass there! It's not possible! Oh! He's done it! Incredible! etc..." In fact a strong case could be said that Nigel Mansell has made the most number of amazing passes than any other F1 driver. Rory S. Brown "Dan Leach" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Cg8r5.39910$[email hidden]...

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> Mansell - overtaking berger round the outside into the almost flat out > peralta (last corner at mexico) > --- he always was a nutter.... > dan leach > "Rob Swindells" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I think Jacques Villeneuve passing Michael Schumacher around the outside > > of the last corner of the Estoril circuit in 1996 was a better manouver > > than Mika's last Sunday. > > > > However it's a shame that such on track action occurs so rarely that > > everyone gets over excited and calls it the greatest pass in F1's > > history. Gilles Villeneuve and Arnoux in '78 at the French GP pulled of > > passing manouver's a thousand times better at almost every corner for > > the last 3 laps! :) > > > >

http://www.forix.com/asp/photos.asp?z=0&k=0&l=0&x=101&f=1979/08012_GM.JPG

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> > > > Also, the decision to start last weekend's Belgian GP behined the safety > > car was a complete joke. Are these guys the best drivers in the world or > > FFord drivers? I don't understand why it was called for... > > > > Rob > > > >

Emmo passing Al Jr at Indy...well actually Emmo PUNTING Al Jr at Indy :) Michael Andretti doesn't have too many classic passes from his early days in CART because he didn't have to pass too many people, all those in front of him mysteriously got flat rear tires. In F1, which I have watched since the late '80s, I'd say Nigel Mansell was the most spectacular passer. Senna, Prost, & Lauda rarely were in a position to make desperation passing attempts. Ol Nige seemed to be in that situation almost every race. The most spectacular passing race I can recall would be Cleveland in CART a few year back when Villenuve was still there. Jacques and Robbie Gordon spent much of the race dicing back and forth and even drove each other off the track on at least two occasions. Sadly Robbie found himself in front of Mikey Andretti twice and suffered two rear blown tires.... dave henrie "Rob Swindells" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I think Jacques Villeneuve passing Michael Schumacher around the outside > of the last corner of the Estoril circuit in 1996 was a better manouver > than Mika's last Sunday. > > However it's a shame that such on track action occurs so rarely that > everyone gets over excited and calls it the greatest pass in F1's > history. Gilles Villeneuve and Arnoux in '78 at the French GP pulled of > passing manouver's a thousand times better at almost every corner for > the last 3 laps! :) > > http://www.forix.com/asp/photos.asp?z=0&k=0&l=0&x=101&f=1979/08012_GM.JPG > > Also, the decision to start last weekend's Belgian GP behined the safety > car was a complete joke. Are these guys the best drivers in the world or > FFord drivers? I don't understand why it was called for... > > Rob >

Dan Leach wrote: > > Mansell - overtaking berger round the outside into the almost flat out > peralta (last corner at mexico) > --- he always was a nutter.... And Mansell positively HATED Peralta, like Jim Clark despised Spa -- yet look how well they both did... BB

Rob Swindells <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I think Jacques Villeneuve passing Michael Schumacher around the outside > of the last corner of the Estoril circuit in 1996 was a better manouver > than Mika's last Sunday. > > However it's a shame that such on track action occurs so rarely that > everyone gets over excited and calls it the greatest pass in F1's > history. Gilles Villeneuve and Arnoux in '78 at the French GP pulled of > passing manouver's a thousand times better at almost every corner for > the last 3 laps! :) > > http://www.forix.com/asp/photos.asp?z=0&k=0&l=0&x=101&f=1979/08012_GM.JPG > > Also, the decision to start last weekend's Belgian GP behined the safety > car was a complete joke. Are these guys the best drivers in the world or > FFord drivers? I don't understand why it was called for... > > Rob >

Ron Denis has dubbed this as the best overtaking manoeuvre in F1 history. Am I the only one who thinks this was harsh? I mean, this is how i saw it. Mika follows Michael down the straight, Zonta is just ahead. Mika moves to the right of Michael as stays left. Zonta moves tot he right. Michael seems to want Mika to get behind Zonta as he goes offline, giving Michael the racing line. Michael's plans go slightly wrong as Zonta leaves room to the right for Mika. Mika keeps the boot in and has the inside line to the corner, which would leave anyone able to take the line. Added to that was the fact that Mika was doing a top speed almost 10mph faster than Schumacher *AND* Mika got a tow from both Schumacher and Zonta!! I mean, it was good in the sense that Mika didn't back out when he went behind Zonta, but it was luck that Zonta didn't go completely off line tot the right side of the track but kept to the middle leaving space for Mika to zip through. He had a better top speed anyway and a tow from 2 cars all the way to the corner. And he had the inside line. It was good...It just wasn't great. I mean, the move wasn't "all Mika". It was 50% luck, 40% his speed and 10% the guts to keep the boot in when he hadn't the room to pass originally. It was a very circumstantial pass IMO. Calling it the best pass ever is a huge overstatement. There are a number of passes just in the last few seasons that were tactically better (i.e. the driver was thinking and anticipating his moves and the pass was not brought about because a back marker got involved and he decided to strike on the spot.) not to mind over the last 51 years! Thats my view... well done Mika for ahving the guts to do it, just don't get too overexcited.

Alemira <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8oj3nh$aimvk$[email hidden]... <snip> > I'm not sure about the Belgium GP start was a bad decission; can you > remember Spa start in 1998? I don't know if that really counts. In 1998 there was severe rain all day. Last weekend there was shower in the morning, it was dry by race timeand only took 5-6 laps to get a full dry line. It wasn't called for IMO. That aside, if they want to do it for safety reasons I'd support it but they did it the wrong way. I would understand if they went around for the 5-6 laps to get a dry line but effectively they did a proper rolling start in that he safety car leads the cars around for 1 laps then pulls off and the race starts. This is not how F1 is run! My main grudge with this is that fact that it gave the pole sitter a great advantage. The start should have been 2x2 with the grid closed together... It wasn't... Mika was crossing the line as Jarno came around the last corner, meaning Button must have been in the bus stop making MS just before it and so on.....where were the Minardi? Just getting through Eau Rouge? It wasn't fair on any driver but Mika. When you think that Mika won by 1.1 seconds and deduct the advantage over Schumacher at the start, MS would have won by a few seconds theoretically, thats not necessarily how the race might have worked out but I hope you get my point. It gave a clear advantage to the pole sitter by running a regular rolling start without organising the grid. You'll see in most motorsports the if there is even a small gap in the grid they must circle the track again before the start.

"9Wright7" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8ojhg8$c2a$[email hidden]... > <snip> > > Ron Denis has dubbed this as the best overtaking manoeuvre in F1 history. > Am I the only one who thinks this was harsh? > > I mean, this is how i saw it. <Excellent replay description snipped> But!...if Schumie had chosen to take Zonta on the right??? Me'thinks he wishes he had. (Mika's certain pass later on probably would have held less drama). Tom

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > Also, the decision to start last weekend's Belgian GP behined the safety > car was a complete joke. Are these guys the best drivers in the world or > FFord drivers? I don't understand why it was called for... Absolutely - it was pathetic. And these guys are paid millions a year! - Michael

It brought back flashes of Monza '71 ... remember, slip streaming and, read this Max Mosley, overtaking. Stefan Rob Swindells wrote:

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> > I think Jacques Villeneuve passing Michael Schumacher around the outside > of the last corner of the Estoril circuit in 1996 was a better manouver > than Mika's last Sunday. > > However it's a shame that such on track action occurs so rarely that > everyone gets over excited and calls it the greatest pass in F1's > history. Gilles Villeneuve and Arnoux in '78 at the French GP pulled of > passing manouver's a thousand times better at almost every corner for > the last 3 laps! :) > > http://www.forix.com/asp/photos.asp?z=0&k=0&l=0&x=101&f=1979/08012_GM.JPG > > Also, the decision to start last weekend's Belgian GP behined the safety > car was a complete joke. Are these guys the best drivers in the world or > FFord drivers? I don't understand why it was called for... > > Rob

Thomas Duwe <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:qbdr5.9499$[email hidden]... > "9Wright7" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:8ojhg8$c2a$[email hidden]... > > > <snip> > > > > Ron Denis has dubbed this as the best overtaking manoeuvre in F1history.

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> > Am I the only one who thinks this was harsh? > > > > I mean, this is how i saw it. > > <Excellent replay description snipped> > > But!...if Schumie had chosen to take Zonta on the right??? > > Me'thinks he wishes he had. (Mika's certain pass later on probably would

have > held less drama). > Perhaps your right, But I doubt Michael would really have chosen the inside line as the leading car. Seems a bit unethical. IMO, He wasn't expecting Zonta to make quite such a good job of the whole thing :-)

Rob Swindells <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > if there was 'post of the day' award yours would win :) > I don't know if that was meant in a good way or a bad way but either way...thanks very much :-)

On Wed 30 Aug 2000 04:25:21pm, Rory S. Brown wrote: >yes indeed, Mansells pass was the best and especially how Murray >Walker described it. If I remember correctly, Walker said " Surely, >he can't pass there! It's not possible! Oh! He's done it! >Incredible! etc..." In fact a strong case could be said that Nigel >Mansell has made the most number of amazing passes than any other F1 >driver. The two that stick in my mind are the one on Piquet at Silverstone in (I believe) 1987, and the one on Senna when he came from way down the field to win in Hungary a couple of years later. Both of these were part of stunning drives, and both led to wins. Can't do better than that. -- David. (GPLRank handicap: -5.17) "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really." (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh) The GPL Scrapyard - mangled wrecks from http://www.hillclimbfan.f2s.com

Graeme Nash a �crit dans le message : > > Mansell on Berger at Mexico '90 was better, as was Mansell on Senna at > Hungary '89. Mansell on Piquet at Silverstone '87 comes to mind as does > Senna going around the outside of Lauda in the wet at Monaco '84... > brave stuff :-) Gilles Villeneuve, Zandvoort 1980 or 81 against Alan Jones at Tarzan on the outside, was nice as well, but then i'm old :) Christian Giroux.

I completely agree with you. You reminded me of a pass Mansell did on Piquet at Brands Hatch also. Rory S. Brown "David Buttery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Wed 30 Aug 2000 04:25:21pm, Rory S. Brown wrote: > > >yes indeed, Mansells pass was the best and especially how Murray > >Walker described it. If I remember correctly, Walker said " Surely, > >he can't pass there! It's not possible! Oh! He's done it! > >Incredible! etc..." In fact a strong case could be said that Nigel > >Mansell has made the most number of amazing passes than any other F1 > >driver. > > The two that stick in my mind are the one on Piquet at Silverstone in > (I believe) 1987, and the one on Senna when he came from way down the > field to win in Hungary a couple of years later. Both of these were > part of stunning drives, and both led to wins. Can't do better than > that. > > -- > David. (GPLRank handicap: -5.17) > "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, > really." (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh) > The GPL Scrapyard - mangled wrecks from http://www.hillclimbfan.f2s.com

"Enforcer" wrote: > >Gilles Villeneuve, Zandvoort 1980 or 81 against Alan Jones at Tarzan on the >outside, was nice as well, but then i'm old :) > >Christian Giroux. That was in 1979. (See shameless website plug below...) Story and photos at: http://www.iprimus.ca/~trauttf/Gilles/Zandvoort.htm -Ferdinand-

On Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:36:15 +0100, Rob Swindells <[email hidden]> wrote: >Also, the decision to start last weekend's Belgian GP behined the safety >car was a complete joke. Are these guys the best drivers in the world or >FFord drivers? I don't understand why it was called for... To avoid the hugely expensive and extremely dangerous carnage seen two years ago at the same track. These guys have more experience at racing than you or anyone else in this group will ever have, yet somehow we know better than them what their cars are capable of? I doubt it. John

John Wallace wrote:

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> > On Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:36:15 +0100, Rob Swindells > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Also, the decision to start last weekend's Belgian GP behined the safety > >car was a complete joke. Are these guys the best drivers in the world or > >FFord drivers? I don't understand why it was called for... > > To avoid the hugely expensive and extremely dangerous carnage seen two > years ago at the same track. These guys have more experience at racing > than you or anyone else in this group will ever have, yet somehow we > know better than them what their cars are capable of? > > I doubt it.

Of course we do, we all race GPL don't we ? :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

Enforcer <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Lllr5.1737$[email hidden]...

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> > Graeme Nash a �crit dans le message : > > > > Mansell on Berger at Mexico '90 was better, as was Mansell on Senna at > > Hungary '89. Mansell on Piquet at Silverstone '87 comes to mind as does > > Senna going around the outside of Lauda in the wet at Monaco '84... > > brave stuff :-) > > Gilles Villeneuve, Zandvoort 1980 or 81 against Alan Jones at Tarzan on

the > outside, was nice as well, but then i'm old :) > I'm starting to notice a real trend with this. The people calling it "the best pass in the 51 years of F1" seem to be Both Ron Dennis and "Sunday racers" who have a passing interest in F1. (Or should I really separate Ron from that group) Followers of F1 and motorpsort in general for any length of time now don't seem to be as astounded at the pass. You can read what I said above if you like,e I won't repeat it but as far as Mika being a great driver due to that move goes.... utter crap. The sad fact is that next week in Monza MS could very well kick his ass and claim to be the best.... that will be followed by MH whipping Michael's ass in Indy. Its the Sunday racers who seem to be dubbing Mika as "the great one" on the form of 1 race when his main rival wasn't running at 100%. That's not exactly putting him in the leagues with prost Senna and even Fangio let alone Schumacher as the record books are strangely beginning to show.

The best pass I can remember is Villeneuve on both Tracy and Andretti who were fighting for 1st position... Zoomed between the two, Andretti trying to cut his rear wheel (like he used to do in those years) and went on to win... I can't remember where it was... Was it Elkhart Lake? Frank Francois Dubuc, [email hidden] Simulator Cyberworld, http://www.simracing.com/simcyberworld/

""Francois Dubuc"" <[email hidden]> wrote > The best pass I can remember is Villeneuve on both Tracy and Andretti > who were fighting for 1st position... Zoomed between the two, > Andretti trying to cut his rear wheel (like he used to do in those > years) and went on to win... I can't remember where it was... Was it > Elkhart Lake? Tracy with his Penske car.. I remember that. Villeneuve's first win in CART. But your situation might be the incredible race we had at Cleveland in 1995, when Villeneuve passed both those guys into turn 1. It's great to see the Villeneuve name in many of those posts. It's in our blood to always give a good show ;-) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

Im not sure I thought that Mansells pass around Berger in Mexico was and is the best pass I have ever seen. Around the outside of the Peratalta....(sp?) PAPA DOC

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>I think Jacques Villeneuve passing Michael Schumacher around the outside >of the last corner of the Estoril circuit in 1996 was a better manouver >than Mika's last Sunday. > >However it's a shame that such on track action occurs so rarely that >everyone gets over excited and calls it the greatest pass in F1's >history. Gilles Villeneuve and Arnoux in '78 at the French GP pulled of >passing manouver's a thousand times better at almost every corner for >the last 3 laps! :) > >http://www.forix.com/asp/photos.asp?z=0&k=0&l=0&x=101&f=1979/08012_GM.JPG > >Also, the decision to start last weekend's Belgian GP behined the safety >car was a complete joke. Are these guys the best drivers in the world or >FFord drivers? I don't understand why it was called for... > >Rob >

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand Voodoo 5 vs Geforce 2 shootout... Flanker Target GPL Crash Dummy Video Card Wizard www.papadoc.net FALCON 4 Benchmarks Rants, Bullshit and Reviews

On Wed, 30 Aug 2000 10:54:35 -0300, "Alemira" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Rob: I'm totally agree with your first part, those last laps were fantastic >!!! >Also, in 1978 Carlos Reutemann did a Mika-like pass to Niki Lauda in Brands >Hatch. > >I'm not sure about the Belgium GP start was a bad decission; can you >remember Spa start in 1998? >

But really, if a driver as 'average' (to put it kindly) as Pedro Diniz feels that he can start on slicks, then surely a safety car is not justified. Simon