Re: OT: Bernie Sez Nix Chicanes

Goy Larsen wrote: > Funny how these guys take 5 years to see what the majority of F1 fans > all over the world could tell after just a few races with all these new > chicanes.....and to think that one of them (I forget which one) is > actually named after Senna, the "Senna chicane", I don't know if that's > an Oxymoron or an insult...... There's a Senna chicane at Hockenheim, Jerez and Buenos Aires (although they call it the Senna-S, it really is a chicane). Possibly even more... At Hockenheim they also have a Jim Clark chicane -- Arne Martin

Hey, what about building in some roundabouts? ;)) Cheers Crash "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:[email hidden]...

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> So does this ("single corners") mean that, for example, at Monza, the first > chicane would be replaced with, firstly, a slow RH corner, then a bit of a > straight, then a slow LH corner, which would bring the new bit of track back > to join in where it does now? > > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. > ---------------------------

Expurgated from today's OtterSport: >> Formula 1 boss Bernie Ecclestone has called for an end to chicanes Formula 1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone says chicanes are �silly and unnecessary�, following the opening lap accident that claimed the life of a marshal in last Sunday�s Italian Grand Prix.Talking to British journalists, Ecclestone said he wants chicanes removed from every Formula 1 circuit and replaced with single corners that would still slow the cars, but without funnelling and bunching them... �Chicanes are old hat. They are silly and unnecessary,� he said. �One very slow corner, rather than two making up a chicane seems a better idea. We have got rid of them at many circuits and now I would get rid of the rest of them if I had my way. �I don�t think chicanes have a place in F1 these days,� he added. �They have been artificially put in on very fast straights to slow cars. That�s fine, as it is much easier for a driver to kill himself at 200mph than at 100mph, but we must not have situations where we create accidents.� Ecclestone has also questioned the effectiveness of gravel traps. Last year, Michael Schumacher broke a leg after spearing off the track at Silverstone�s Stowe corner and hitting a tyre barrier. Although the gravel trap slowed Schumacher�s Ferrari from 110mph to pproximately 70mph, Ecclestone believes a more effective solution should be used. Work on abrasive surface which scrubs off speed while allowing a driver still to steer has been completed and Ecclestone wants to see it installed at circuits in place of gravel traps. <<

"Barton Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote > Formula 1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone says chicanes are 'silly and > unnecessary', following the opening lap accident that claimed the life > of a marshal in last Sunday's Italian Grand Prix. Weird, as this incident could had happened at any corner at any track of the season. It was the bad safety of track marshalls that is mainly the problem. > Talking to British > journalists, Ecclestone said he wants chicanes removed from every > Formula 1 circuit and replaced with single corners that would still slow > the cars, but without funnelling and bunching them... How can you put single corners? Bernie sometime amaze me. Let's check out the F1 tracks with chicanes (not slow S corner, but real chicanes) : Australia : We could say that turn 1-2 is almost a chicane. Same could be said of corner 9-10. How can you eliminate them? If you straighten those corners, it will only result in cars bunching closer to the _NEXT_ corner after, corners which aren't suited in safety for the increase of speed. Brazil : Not much to change there, but I would personally eliminate Turn 9 and 10 to create more flow to the back portion of the circuit and tighten Turn 12 for a passing opportunity (it's already there, the corner has 2 possible layout). Imola : Eliminate the second added chicane (5-6), and 11-12. I really hate those chicanes, they are there for nothing, as the next corner after has enough safety for the increased speed the elimination would result in. Silverstone : Keep most of the corners intact, I like the flow of the circuit but some corners can be eliminated for better racing and passing situation ("chicane" 8-9 and 11-12). Espagna : Nothing to change but to DROP that boring track ;-) Nurburgring : Eliminating the last chicane would result in a boring track. It's the only place to pass. I would tighten turn 8 and flaten the corner radius of 6-7 for a new passing opportunity. Monaco : It's impossible to take the chicanes out now, with the pool. The only solution would be to eliminate the chicane after the tunnel turn, but there's no safety at all in the next corner. Two armco barriers each side. Impossible. Montreal : Ain't much to change. You can't take out the last chicane because on each side there is water and it's a nice passing place. I would just love to see the elimination of turn 9-10 after the bridge. It can be done. Magny-Cours : Ain't much to change, but if they would put a slow corner instead of a chicane complex on that last corner it would create a passing zone I say. But there ain't much safety exiting the corner (pit lane is there). A1-Ring : Perfect example on how to create a nice modern track. Hockenheim. Take out ALL the chicanes, but keep the layout exactly as it is! That would be great eh? Top speed of 400km/h! Hungary : That track needs too much changes. They need to completely redo the layout, it's as boring as Espagna. Spa : Keep the corners at the end of stretch after Eau Rouge. The Bus Stop is 1 chicane, the second is taken flat out. His idea of 1 slow corner is applied there. Monza : Impossible to create anything else inside the layout than to eliminate completely the chicanes. You can figure out the other tracks easily... > Work on abrasive surface Great idea, it's just been 6 years since people have been saying that <g>.

So does this ("single corners") mean that, for example, at Monza, the first chicane would be replaced with, firstly, a slow RH corner, then a bit of a straight, then a slow LH corner, which would bring the new bit of track back to join in where it does now? -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Barton Brown <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Expurgated from today's OtterSport: > > >> Formula 1 boss Bernie Ecclestone has called for an end to chicanes > > Formula 1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone says chicanes are 'silly and > unnecessary', following the opening lap accident that claimed the life > of a marshal in last Sunday's Italian Grand Prix.Talking to British > journalists, Ecclestone said he wants chicanes removed from every > Formula 1 circuit and replaced with single corners that would still slow > the cars, but without funnelling and bunching them

Arne Martin G�ettler wrote:

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> > Goy Larsen wrote: > > Funny how these guys take 5 years to see what the majority of F1 fans > > all over the world could tell after just a few races with all these new > > chicanes.....and to think that one of them (I forget which one) is > > actually named after Senna, the "Senna chicane", I don't know if that's > > an Oxymoron or an insult...... > > There's a Senna chicane at Hockenheim, Jerez and Buenos Aires (although > they call it the Senna-S, it really is a chicane). Possibly even more... > At Hockenheim they also have a Jim Clark chicane

Thank you, the horror of it all, it's even worse than I remembered....:-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "Mountain climbing, auto racing and bullfighting are the only true sports...all others are games." --Ernest Hemingway--

On Wed, 13 Sep 2000 19:09:25 GMT, Barton Brown <[email hidden]> wrote: >Expurgated from today's OtterSport: > >>> Formula 1 boss Bernie Ecclestone has called for an end to chicanes <snip> Finally... Andre

Andre Warringa wrote:

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> > On Wed, 13 Sep 2000 19:09:25 GMT, Barton Brown <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >Expurgated from today's OtterSport: > > > >>> Formula 1 boss Bernie Ecclestone has called for an end to chicanes > <snip> > > Finally...

Funny how these guys take 5 years to see what the majority of F1 fans all over the world could tell after just a few races with all these new chicanes.....and to think that one of them (I forget which one) is actually named after Senna, the "Senna chicane", I don't know if that's an Oxymoron or an insult...... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "Mountain climbing, auto racing and bullfighting are the only true sports...all others are games." --Ernest Hemingway--

On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 02:39:01 GMT, Barton Brown <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Joachim Blum wrote: >> >> Hey, what about building in some roundabouts? ;)) > >Now THERE's an idea! A couple roundabouts an an Islip-style figure 8 >would separate the men from the boys pretty quick! > >BB

With stop go penalties for failing to give way at a roundabout?

Joachim Blum wrote: > > Hey, what about building in some roundabouts? ;)) Now THERE's an idea! A couple roundabouts an an Islip-style figure 8 would separate the men from the boys pretty quick! BB

Bruce Kennewell wrote: > > So does this ("single corners") mean that, for example, at Monza, the first > chicane would be replaced with, firstly, a slow RH corner, then a bit of a > straight, then a slow LH corner, which would bring the new bit of track back > to join in where it does now? Hmmmm....that sounds strangely like the Inner Loop chicane at the Glen, or Bus Stop at Spa... I took it to mean a single REALLY slow corner, like La Source or Rascasse -- and I'm sure every track owner is just dying to spend a few gazillion dollars putting in a couple strategic hairpins. BTW, it looks like Donington is almost sure for 2001, as Brands Hatch Leisure's plans have been called back to the home office for another dekko. BB

"Barton Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote > Bruce Kennewell wrote: > > > > So does this ("single corners") mean that, for example, at Monza, thefirst > > chicane would be replaced with, firstly, a slow RH corner, then a bit ofa > > straight, then a slow LH corner, which would bring the new bit of trackback > > to join in where it does now? > > Hmmmm....that sounds strangely like the Inner Loop chicane at the Glen, > or Bus Stop at Spa... Hmmm Barton I'm not sure if his message was intended as sarcasm but what he wrote is EXACTLY the new layout of the new first chicane at Monza. The way Bernie says it is that he wants to just have 1 slow corner. But If you turn once like he wants, you need to turn 2 times to come back to your original point at a track if you want to eliminate chicanes. One to counter the effect of that first corner, then another to put you in correct angle with the original layout of the track. I'm always talking about a straight which continues at the same angle then the previous stretch. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

It is the ludicrous design of the modern circuit that is also to blame. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:RGRv5.233999$[email hidden]... > "Barton Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Formula 1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone says chicanes are 'silly and > > unnecessary', following the opening lap accident that claimed the life > > of a marshal in last Sunday's Italian Grand Prix. > > Weird, as this incident could had happened at any corner at any track of the > season. It was the bad safety of track marshalls that is mainly the > problem. >

On Wed, 13 Sep 2000 20:44:33 GMT, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>"Barton Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote >> Formula 1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone says chicanes are 'silly and >> unnecessary', following the opening lap accident that claimed the life >> of a marshal in last Sunday's Italian Grand Prix. > >Weird, as this incident could had happened at any corner at any track of the >season. It was the bad safety of track marshalls that is mainly the >problem. > > > >> Talking to British >> journalists, Ecclestone said he wants chicanes removed from every >> Formula 1 circuit and replaced with single corners that would still slow >> the cars, but without funnelling and bunching them... > >How can you put single corners? Bernie sometime amaze me. > >Let's check out the F1 tracks with chicanes (not slow S corner, but real >chicanes) : > >Australia : We could say that turn 1-2 is almost a chicane. Same could be >said of corner 9-10. How can you eliminate them? If you straighten those >corners, it will only result in cars bunching closer to the _NEXT_ corner >after, corners which aren't suited in safety for the increase of speed. > >Brazil : Not much to change there, but I would personally eliminate Turn 9 >and 10 to create more flow to the back portion of the circuit and tighten >Turn 12 for a passing opportunity (it's already there, the corner has 2 >possible layout). > >Imola : Eliminate the second added chicane (5-6), and 11-12. I really hate >those chicanes, they are there for nothing, as the next corner after has >enough safety for the increased speed the elimination would result in.

And those chicanes were introduced to..... prevent crashes like Senna in '94. Let's just face it: it's NEVER going to be safe, period. JoH

Exactly the thought on my mind, Barton, when I read the article in your post. I suppose it (this new "single corner" arrangement) depends on what Bernie means by "single corner". I mean, they have to arrange the modification to the existing circuit so that it all joins up again. Sorta like a Scalextric set!! They could have a 90-degree RH, followed by a 100-metre straight section followed by a 90-degree LH. These corners and straights could be produced in bulk in Bernie's garage each evening, by Bern and his entourage, painted black with the curbs done in red & white stripes, shrink-wrapped and then shipped out to your actual GP circuit operators en-masse. Keep the costs down doing it all as a job-lot. Simple! -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Barton Brown <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Hmmmm....that sounds strangely like the Inner Loop chicane at the Glen, > or Bus Stop at Spa...

Good Lord, Frank! Have you become privy to Bernie's Giant Scalextric plans?! -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:F_Yv5.12580$[email hidden]... > > > Hmmm Barton I'm not sure if his message was intended as sarcasm but what he > wrote is EXACTLY the new layout of the new first chicane at Monza. > > > The way Bernie says it is that he wants to just have 1 slow corner. But If > you turn once like he wants, you need to turn 2 times to come back to your > original point at a track if you want to eliminate chicanes. One to counter > the effect of that first corner, then another to put you in correct angle > with the original layout of the track. I'm always talking about a straight > which continues at the same angle then the previous stretch. > >

>"Hey, what about building in some roundabouts? ;)) I think you better stop GPL track editing at once ;-) cheers, Alex

How about a nice set of traffic lights with a couple of speed cameras and a 30mph speed limit what will they do next with F1 ? oz

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> >"Hey, what about building in some roundabouts? ;)) > > I think you better stop GPL track editing at once ;-) > > cheers, > Alex > >

How about a "loop-the-loop" ? You know, like a circle with a twist going up in the air . . . I'm sure JV would love it. "Joachim Blum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8por0i$51q$11$[email hidden]... Hey, what about building in some roundabouts? ;)) Cheers Crash

Even Better still a long pipe down the straights that the cars go down and thoretically they could do there overtaking manouvers in an inverted state. no chance of HHF of running into the back of anyone.! oz. > How about a "loop-the-loop" ? You know, like a circle with a twist goingup > in the air . . . > > I'm sure JV would love it. >

and don't forget the "zebra" crossings to let ex-Mercedes-Benz employees ( and Nos :-) cross the track :-) "Owen Pilson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8psouk$4ds$[email hidden]...

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> How about a nice set of traffic lights > with a couple of speed cameras and a 30mph speed limit > what will they do next with F1 ? > oz > > >"Hey, what about building in some roundabouts? ;)) > > > > I think you better stop GPL track editing at once ;-)

Harold Chapel wrote: > > How about a "loop-the-loop" ? You know, like a circle with a twist going up > in the air . . . I think that will come when Mattel takes over the series sponshorship and renames everything "The HotWheels Grand Prix of _______" BB

something has just occoured to me .......... the less bends on a track the less accidents next year the british gp will be held at Santa Pod! lol! oz

In article <F_Yv5.12580$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > The way Bernie says it is that he wants to just have 1 slow corner. But If > you turn once like he wants, you need to turn 2 times to come back to your > original point at a track if you want to eliminate chicanes. One to counter > the effect of that first corner, then another to put you in correct angle > with the original layout of the track. I'm always talking about a straight > which continues at the same angle then the previous stretch. I think that's what he means. Something like Sepang in Malaysia. They'd never get permission to do it at Monza though. All the trees are sacred. - Michael

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > It is the ludicrous design of the modern circuit that is also to blame. > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. Yes, usually the fault of trying to fit a GP length 2.5 mile circuit into an area that's way too small. You end up with the classic infield circuit, flat, slow corners, and as boring as hell. - Michael

And they can't say that they weren't forwarned: the 1967 French GP was proof of the fact that those types of circuits are not enjoyable for driver and spectator alike. Yet the people responsible for circuit development/design/suitability to FOCA never bloody learned from that, and it was 33 years ago! -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- MichaelJP <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > > It is the ludicrous design of the modern circuit that is also to blame. > > -- > > Regards, > > Bruce Kennewell, > > Canberra, Australia. > > Yes, usually the fault of trying to fit a GP length 2.5 mile circuit into > an area that's way too small. You end up with the classic infield > circuit, flat, slow corners, and as boring as hell. > > - Michael