Re: GPL - Nurburgring revisited

> How many laps of fuel did you have in the tank? I once did what I >thought were a few fast and clean laps and was 20 seconds slower than I >expected. It turned out that my fuel tank had about 10 laps in it, which is >quite a lot at the 'Ring. Limit the number of laps of fuel in your fuel tank >to 3 or 4. I'm not sure how many liters/gallons this is. I had 5 laps worth in it. I know, because I needed to make sure what setup I had. I don't use the Cooper that often, so I wasn't sure... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +49.67 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

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> I don't get it - the first >>lap felt MUCH faster by far, and yet it was a full 16 seconds >>slower... What's up with THAT? >> >>Eldred > >I've had that experience as well. Hope you saved the replays, use >SpyGirl to combine then and see exactly what was up.

Yep, I did that. Nothing glaring, and I'm actually faster in spots on the 9:10 lap...(go figure) It's worse comparing my lap with one of the hotshoes. At every sync point, the other car pulls away, being much faster. This doesn't teach me anything except that the other car is faster...<g> I still don't know WHY the other car is faster. I'm either not looking for(at) the right clues, or I'm missing them even though they're right in front of my face... :( And no, I still can't keep up with the AI in a race, even up to Flugplatz. They check out before I get there. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +49.67 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I had a previous PB of 8:52 in the Ferrari. After running some laps tonight in the Cooper, I decided to try it again at the Ring. My Cooper PB was only 9:00.67. First lap - Clean! Everything felt good, I had decent speed through the tough spots, I even was on the throttle going over Flugplatz. I thought, certainly this is an 8:40, maybe even 8:35. The pit board comes up - 9:10! What?!? I *know* that lap was better than that - I did everything I wanted to do... Meanwhile, I'm still driving around the track, trying to figure out WTF was up with the timing on the first lap. Another clean lap(what, 2 in a *row*?). I'm scared to see the pit board this time...8:54(?!). I don't get it - the first lap felt MUCH faster by far, and yet it was a full 16 seconds slower... What's up with THAT? Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +49.67 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP wrote in message <[email hidden]>... >Meanwhile, I'm still driving around the track, trying to figure out WTF wasup >with the timing on the first lap. Another clean lap(what, 2 in a *row*?).I'm >scared to see the pit board this time...8:54(?!). I don't get it - thefirst >lap felt MUCH faster by far, and yet it was a full 16 seconds slower... >What's up with THAT? How many laps of fuel did you have in the tank? I once did what I thought were a few fast and clean laps and was 20 seconds slower than I expected. It turned out that my fuel tank had about 10 laps in it, which is quite a lot at the 'Ring. Limit the number of laps of fuel in your fuel tank to 3 or 4. I'm not sure how many liters/gallons this is. Bendito;

[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in <[email hidden]>: I don't get it - the first >lap felt MUCH faster by far, and yet it was a full 16 seconds >slower... What's up with THAT? > >Eldred I've had that experience as well. Hope you saved the replays, use SpyGirl to combine then and see exactly what was up. -- Don Scurlock Vancouver,B.C. GPLRank -5.09 Come see how you rank, at the GPLRank site http://gplrank.ringlord.com/

EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote: > Meanwhile, I'm still driving around the track, trying to figure out WTF was up > with the timing on the first lap. Another clean lap(what, 2 in a *row*?). I'm > scared to see the pit board this time...8:54(?!). I don't get it - the first > lap felt MUCH faster by far, and yet it was a full 16 seconds slower... > What's up with THAT? If you feel you're going slow, you are either a) going slow, or b) in a perfect state of concentration which creates an illusion that everything's happening slower. You may know the latter by the name 'flow state'. +Cinquo

What happened is you pushed hard on the first lap and the second lap you were just smooth because you didn't have any special intentions. When you push hard, you normally end up wasting time spinning tires and sliding sideways. At some tracks it can be worth it, but at most tracks it is advantageous to be smooth...especially the ring. This is why I say to drive at 90-95%, rather than 100%. All that means is to slow down a little extra to make sure you can make the turn, and once the car turns in nice and has a good line, get on the gas for a fast exit. You must be aggressive at times to find the limits of the car, but once you define the limits, being smooth AT the limit will be fastest. This can get a little complicated, but it is all about corner exit speed. Being aggressive means you are driving real hard into the turns...and what you normally end up doing is getting in so deep that you have to wait for the car to slide around and search for grip before you can power out of the turn....The line normally doesn't follow the classic line but comes in nice and tight, but at the apex it normally slides out a little meaning you can't get on the gas as soon as you would like. This is especially evident at the first lesmo at monza. You can get away with it there because the straight after it is real short. If you switch to being smooth, you go in a little slower but with a perfect line and can get on the gas as soon as possible, or sooner. The exit of the turn should not be one of sliding full lock or opposite lock to the edge of the track, but rather one of a nice drift to the edge...normally with pretty close to full throttle. Leave some room on the exit so that your car can accelerate at full capacity. You must always leave yourself tire capacity to accelerate on the exits. OOOps, I have typed too much. Sorry for the long post. Jesse Black

> good advice clipped The caveat here is that Eldred's ring time is better than Jesse's heeHEE :) rms [email hidden]

If it felt fast, the chances are you were running wide into turns so you'll spend the corner controlling the car rather than driving the car. In that case you won't be on the power early enough on the exits. You can lose a heap of time by having to correct small errors over a lap that long !! ;) The best method at the ring is to drive it smoothly rather than fast, the fast times will come as you get to know just where you can and can't go fast. -- Ian P <email invalid due to spam> EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I had a previous PB of 8:52 in the Ferrari. After running some laps tonight in > the Cooper, I decided to try it again at the Ring. My Cooper PB was only > 9:00.67. First lap - Clean! Everything felt good, I had decent speed through > the tough spots, I even was on the throttle going over Flugplatz. I thought, > certainly this is an 8:40, maybe even 8:35. The pit board comes up - 9:10! > What?!? I *know* that lap was better than that - I did everything I wanted to > do... > Meanwhile, I'm still driving around the track, trying to figure out WTF was up > with the timing on the first lap. Another clean lap(what, 2 in a *row*?). I'm > scared to see the pit board this time...8:54(?!). I don't get it - the first > lap felt MUCH faster by far, and yet it was a full 16 seconds slower... > What's up with THAT? > > Eldred >

yes all 6 laps of the ring that I have done. One of these days I will actually decide to learn the ring, but at the moment, I just don't have the time to invest in learning it. Jesse Black "Roger Squires" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:hDoy5.4268$[email hidden]...

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> > good advice clipped > > The caveat here is that Eldred's ring time is better than Jesse's > heeHEE :) > > rms > [email hidden] > > >

>Everything felt good, I had decent speed through >the tough spots, I even was on the throttle going over Flugplatz. I thought, >certainly this is an 8:40, maybe even 8:35. The pit board comes up - 9:10! I experience this, usually a symptom of too much alcohol. -- Alan Goss GPLRank +10.37 (rfb)

In article <[email hidden]>, EldredP <[email hidden]> writes

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>I had a previous PB of 8:52 in the Ferrari. After running some laps tonight in >the Cooper, I decided to try it again at the Ring. My Cooper PB was only >9:00.67. First lap - Clean! Everything felt good, I had decent speed through >the tough spots, I even was on the throttle going over Flugplatz. I thought, >certainly this is an 8:40, maybe even 8:35. The pit board comes up - 9:10! >What?!? I *know* that lap was better than that - I did everything I wanted to >do... >Meanwhile, I'm still driving around the track, trying to figure out WTF was up >with the timing on the first lap. Another clean lap(what, 2 in a *row*?). I'm >scared to see the pit board this time...8:54(?!). I don't get it - the first >lap felt MUCH faster by far, and yet it was a full 16 seconds slower... >What's up with THAT? >

Very common Eldred. I'm sure anyone who has run enough laps at the Ring can attest to this. In fact it also happens at all the other tracks, though because the lap times are significantly shorter with fewer corners it doesn't notice quite as much. However, I've experienced this on many an occasion where I've put in what seems like a peach of a lap and thinking it must be a new PB only to be disappointed by the actual laptime being severely off what I had expected. As someone else stated, compare that replay with your best and all will become clear. -- Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) Remove ALL_STRESS before replying No person's opinions can be said to be more correct than another's, because each is the sole judge of his or her own experience.

In article <AQTy5.376$[email hidden]>, "Jon Andersen" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>> >I've had that experience as well. Hope you saved the replays, use >> >SpyGirl to combine then and see exactly what was up. >> >> Yep, I did that. Nothing glaring, and I'm actually faster in spots on the >9:10 >> lap...(go figure) It's worse comparing my lap with one of the hotshoes. >At >> every sync point, the other car pulls away, being much faster. This >doesn't >> teach me anything except that the other car is faster...<g> I still don't >know >> WHY the other car is faster. I'm either not looking for(at) the right >clues, >> or I'm missing them even though they're right in front of my face... :( >> And no, I still can't keep up with the AI in a race, even up to Flugplatz. >> They check out before I get there. >> >> Eldred > >Eldred, oh Eldred. You are one of a kind.

I'm not sure if this is a good statement or a bad one...:) Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +49.67 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

> >I've had that experience as well. Hope you saved the replays, use > >SpyGirl to combine then and see exactly what was up. > > Yep, I did that. Nothing glaring, and I'm actually faster in spots on the9:10 > lap...(go figure) It's worse comparing my lap with one of the hotshoes.At > every sync point, the other car pulls away, being much faster. Thisdoesn't > teach me anything except that the other car is faster...<g> I still don'tknow > WHY the other car is faster. I'm either not looking for(at) the rightclues, > or I'm missing them even though they're right in front of my face... :( > And no, I still can't keep up with the AI in a race, even up to Flugplatz. > They check out before I get there. > > Eldred Eldred, oh Eldred. You are one of a kind. You never give up, do you? Well, there is no need to. You've heard this before, and you'll hear this again: Trailbraking. You've started to right foot brake, right? In that case you should practise trailbraking, i.e. braking while turning in. You'll find that you'll need to press both the accelerator and the brakes at the same time to keep the car from swapping ends. At the first turn at Mexico, you should try keeping a constant brake pressure, adjusting speed and direction with the throttle while turning in. The same technique may successfully be used at turn 4 at Kyalami. Of course this technique may be used at every turn at every track, but I've found it's advantages most visible at those to tracks. Once you master that, you have learned how to trailbrake. Learning trailbraking may be a frustrating process. You'll spin at least once a lap at the beginning. But if you do not give up, you'll get your reward: The ability to enter corners more agressively, and more importantly: getting a good exit speed (if the car understeers you just push your brakes while keeping pressure at the accelerator). All of a sudden (well, after a sickening amount of laps, actually), you'll find yourself doing sub 8.30s at the Ring, even with a couple of spins. Keep on GPL-ing.

In article <[email hidden]>, Alan Goss <[email hidden]> writes:

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>>Everything felt good, I had decent speed through >>the tough spots, I even was on the throttle going over Flugplatz. I >thought, >>certainly this is an 8:40, maybe even 8:35. The pit board comes up - 9:10! > >I experience this, usually a symptom of too much alcohol. >

Well, I don't drink, so that ain't it...<g> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +49.67 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Have you tried to calibrate your accelerator pedal with less travel? This sometimes allows the pedal to acelerate better. It also could just be me. :-) SLG [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

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>In article <[email hidden]>, Alan Goss ><[email hidden]> writes: > >>>Everything felt good, I had decent speed through >>>the tough spots, I even was on the throttle going over Flugplatz. I >>thought, >>>certainly this is an 8:40, maybe even 8:35. The pit board comes up - 9:10! >> >>I experience this, usually a symptom of too much alcohol. >> > >Well, I don't drink, so that ain't it...<g> > >Eldred >-- >Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 >Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett >GPL hcp. +49.67 > >Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you >with experience... >Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

(All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are due to too many English classes/teachers)

Eldred, I'm at a 8:20 and still don't have any section where I'm faster than Greger. Haven't seen your replay, but (wild guess) the corner exit speed has some room for improvement (my major problem) JensSchumi On 21 Sep 2000 22:55:12 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >Yep, I did that. Nothing glaring, and I'm actually faster in spots on the 9:10 >lap...(go figure) It's worse comparing my lap with one of the hotshoes. At >every sync point, the other car pulls away, being much faster. This doesn't<snip> --------------------------------------------- LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at: http://members.xoom.com/JensSchu/ GPLRank: -2.61

Could this be the problem? <vbg> JensSchumi On 23 Sep 2000 02:52:23 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: <snip>> >Well, I don't drink, so that ain't it...<g> > >Eldred --------------------------------------------- LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at: http://members.xoom.com/JensSchu/ GPLRank: -2.61

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Steve Garrotto) writes: >Have you tried to calibrate your accelerator pedal with less travel? >This sometimes allows the pedal to acelerate better. It also could >just be me. :-) > But then wouldn't you run into a problem because the pedal is TOO sensitive? In other words, you'd get too much wheelspin off the corner... I don't know, but I'll try it. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +49.67 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (JS) writes:

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>Could this be the problem? <vbg> > >JensSchumi > >On 23 Sep 2000 02:52:23 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: ><snip>> >>Well, I don't drink, so that ain't it...<g> >> >>Eldred

I got it the FIRST time, Jens...<g> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +49.67 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Could this be the problem? <vbg> JensSchumi On 23 Sep 2000 02:52:23 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: <snip>> >Well, I don't drink, so that ain't it...<g> > >Eldred --------------------------------------------- LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at: http://members.xoom.com/JensSchu/ GPLRank: -2.61

Could this be the problem? <vbg> JensSchumi On 23 Sep 2000 02:52:23 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: <snip>> >Well, I don't drink, so that ain't it...<g> > >Eldred --------------------------------------------- LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at: http://members.xoom.com/JensSchu/ GPLRank: -2.61

Could this be the problem? <vbg> JensSchumi On 23 Sep 2000 02:52:23 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: <snip>> >Well, I don't drink, so that ain't it...<g> > >Eldred --------------------------------------------- LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at: http://members.xoom.com/JensSchu/ GPLRank: -2.61