can you send it to me please. and can I put it on my site?
[email hidden]
--
Kieran
www.pcracing.co.uk for GP3 and WSC
Maxx <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
>
> Do I have your attention? good.
>
> OK, First things first, I am not trying to put myself
> across as some GPL or Motor Racing Guru. I'm far from
> either but I recently posted some stuff to a thread
> started by Eldred Pickett who, like most of, wants to
> improve his times in GPL and it was well received.
>
> I have raced saloons and open-wheelers for a number of
> years, pretty succesfully and worked for the Jim Russell
> School based here in the UK as an instructor for a couple
> of years so I do have some background.
>
> I got GPL maybe 4 or 5 months ago so I'm hardly an
> "old-hand" but I've plugged away at it as time permits and
> am not doing too badly IMHO.
>
> These various postings were done against the thread -
> "Re: Will work for speed - GPL(again) - LONG" initially
> on 22 Sept. If your newsserver doesn't have them they
> are part of this "package" that I've put together.
>
> Essentially I am familiar with the techniques required to
> get around a circuit quickly in a real-life racing car. It
> so happens that GPL provides a very close simulation of a
> real racing car and the techniques used in real-life work
> just as well in GPL.
>
> I know all this stuff and have taught many real-life drivers
> some of whom are still racing, very succesfully today. I'm
> not unique, there were dozens of instructors at various times
> and 100s of drivers. Most KNEW what to do, but for whatever
> reason COULDN'T put it into practice. I can't however think
> of one occasion when a current race competitor took some
> instruction (often only an hour) and didn't improve. It was
> down to their discipline to keep doing the "right thing"
> whether they continued to go fast .. or go faster.
>
> Next thing is, I only thought of this 4 hours ago and have
> since had to run a few example laps in GPL to put together
> this very small package. Unfortunately I don't have the
> time right now to labour over it although if there is
> interest I'll maybe do some more/tidy it up.
>
> OK, what is it? Well it's a bit of text, explaining what I
> am trying to get across, plus a few short replays using F1,
> F2 and F3 cars at either Watkins Geln or Mosport. WG because
> many GPLr's ran the demo and know it fairly well, plus it
> is short and therefore quick for me to do some laps. If you've
> ever read other stuff about technique theres little I'm saying
> that you won't have read before but hopefully it might make
> more sense when seen in conjunction with the replays.
>
> I used Mosport as I'd already done a sort of example 4 lap
> run there in the F3.
>
> It is just over 1Mb in total zipped up. I've posted it in
> alt.binaries.simulators.autos initially, I will either send it to
> anyone else who's interested either directly via email or via
> a link to my X-Drive where you can download it uyourself, or
> if you want to put it on a web-site I'll consider that also.
>
> If your already in negative GPLRank territory you might not
> get too much from this that you already don't do/know, although
> if you've the time I'd appreciate comments as I would from
> anyone who tries it, positive or negative.
>
> For information I'm at +22 in F1, +112 in F2 and +299 in F3, all
> are held back by pretty poor ring times. All of the above times
> have come down quite a bit in the last 5 days since I intially
> posted my comments, as, in doing so I realised that I wasn't
> taking my own advice!
>
> I've put this together as I think it might just help
> a few people plus I really enjoyed instructing and this
> gives me another virtual go at it. It's not for back-slaps
> or an ego-trip, nor to be flamed for daring to tell others
> how to drive (although by posting here I realise I must
> accept all comment, positive or negative).
>
> If your interested pop to alt.binaries.simulators.autos
> and pick up GPLEGS post. If you want it emailed reply
> via email to this and remove the GPL's from both parts
> of the email address. If you can't receive attachments
> via email then I can email you a link to the file on my
> X-Drive and you can pick it up at your leisure (within
> 7days, X-Drive limit).
>
> If you want to put it anywhere else, i.e. web site
> etc. just let me know first please and include this
> blurb.
>
> Thanks
>
> Maxx
>
> PS. Am away this Fri 18:00 GMT till Sun 22:00 GMT
> so no responses during this time, sorry.
>
>
>
Notable threadMaxx's racing-school guide to going faster in GPL
Maxx, a former real-life racing instructor, published a package of text notes and replays on smooth driving technique for GPL, covering braking, turn-in, the racing groove and throttle control. Many readers reported immediate gains, notably Simon Brown, who set personal bests and won his first AI race. Later posts discussed reference points, pedal modifications and replay analysis, and the material became the GPLEGS guide.
setup/driving techniqueGrand Prix Legends
Automated summary.
Maxx,
Even though I have a higher rank than you temporarily, I will be reading and
watching hoping to learn more.
Thanks a million.
Jeff H aka speedcazed
Maxx <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (10 lines)
> > > Do I have your attention? good. > > OK, First things first, I am not trying to put myself > across as some GPL or Motor Racing Guru. I'm far from > either but I recently posted some stuff to a thread > started by Eldred Pickett who, like most of, wants to > improve his times in GPL and it was well received. >
Do I have your attention? good.
OK, First things first, I am not trying to put myself
across as some GPL or Motor Racing Guru. I'm far from
either but I recently posted some stuff to a thread
started by Eldred Pickett who, like most of, wants to
improve his times in GPL and it was well received.
I have raced saloons and open-wheelers for a number of
years, pretty succesfully and worked for the Jim Russell
School based here in the UK as an instructor for a couple
of years so I do have some background.
I got GPL maybe 4 or 5 months ago so I'm hardly an
"old-hand" but I've plugged away at it as time permits and
am not doing too badly IMHO.
These various postings were done against the thread -
"Re: Will work for speed - GPL(again) - LONG" initially
on 22 Sept. If your newsserver doesn't have them they
are part of this "package" that I've put together.
Essentially I am familiar with the techniques required to
get around a circuit quickly in a real-life racing car. It
so happens that GPL provides a very close simulation of a
real racing car and the techniques used in real-life work
just as well in GPL.
I know all this stuff and have taught many real-life drivers
some of whom are still racing, very succesfully today. I'm
not unique, there were dozens of instructors at various times
and 100s of drivers. Most KNEW what to do, but for whatever
reason COULDN'T put it into practice. I can't however think
of one occasion when a current race competitor took some
instruction (often only an hour) and didn't improve. It was
down to their discipline to keep doing the "right thing"
whether they continued to go fast .. or go faster.
Next thing is, I only thought of this 4 hours ago and have
since had to run a few example laps in GPL to put together
this very small package. Unfortunately I don't have the
time right now to labour over it although if there is
interest I'll maybe do some more/tidy it up.
OK, what is it? Well it's a bit of text, explaining what I
am trying to get across, plus a few short replays using F1,
F2 and F3 cars at either Watkins Geln or Mosport. WG because
many GPLr's ran the demo and know it fairly well, plus it
is short and therefore quick for me to do some laps. If you've
ever read other stuff about technique theres little I'm saying
that you won't have read before but hopefully it might make
more sense when seen in conjunction with the replays.
I used Mosport as I'd already done a sort of example 4 lap
run there in the F3.
It is just over 1Mb in total zipped up. I've posted it in
alt.binaries.simulators.autos initially, I will either send it to
anyone else who's interested either directly via email or via
a link to my X-Drive where you can download it uyourself, or
if you want to put it on a web-site I'll consider that also.
If your already in negative GPLRank territory you might not
get too much from this that you already don't do/know, although
if you've the time I'd appreciate comments as I would from
anyone who tries it, positive or negative.
For information I'm at +22 in F1, +112 in F2 and +299 in F3, all
are held back by pretty poor ring times. All of the above times
have come down quite a bit in the last 5 days since I intially
posted my comments, as, in doing so I realised that I wasn't
taking my own advice!
I've put this together as I think it might just help
a few people plus I really enjoyed instructing and this
gives me another virtual go at it. It's not for back-slaps
or an ego-trip, nor to be flamed for daring to tell others
how to drive (although by posting here I realise I must
accept all comment, positive or negative).
If your interested pop to alt.binaries.simulators.autos
and pick up GPLEGS post. If you want it emailed reply
via email to this and remove the GPL's from both parts
of the email address. If you can't receive attachments
via email then I can email you a link to the file on my
X-Drive and you can pick it up at your leisure (within
7days, X-Drive limit).
If you want to put it anywhere else, i.e. web site
etc. just let me know first please and include this
blurb.
Thanks
Maxx
PS. Am away this Fri 18:00 GMT till Sun 22:00 GMT
so no responses during this time, sorry.
On behalf of all of us slow crap people - THANK YOU! :)
On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 18:35:09 +0100, Maxx <[email hidden]>
wrote:
Quoted text (103 lines)
> > >Do I have your attention? good. > >OK, First things first, I am not trying to put myself >across as some GPL or Motor Racing Guru. I'm far from >either but I recently posted some stuff to a thread >started by Eldred Pickett who, like most of, wants to >improve his times in GPL and it was well received. > >I have raced saloons and open-wheelers for a number of >years, pretty succesfully and worked for the Jim Russell >School based here in the UK as an instructor for a couple >of years so I do have some background. > >I got GPL maybe 4 or 5 months ago so I'm hardly an >"old-hand" but I've plugged away at it as time permits and >am not doing too badly IMHO. > >These various postings were done against the thread - >"Re: Will work for speed - GPL(again) - LONG" initially >on 22 Sept. If your newsserver doesn't have them they >are part of this "package" that I've put together. > >Essentially I am familiar with the techniques required to >get around a circuit quickly in a real-life racing car. It >so happens that GPL provides a very close simulation of a >real racing car and the techniques used in real-life work >just as well in GPL. > >I know all this stuff and have taught many real-life drivers >some of whom are still racing, very succesfully today. I'm >not unique, there were dozens of instructors at various times >and 100s of drivers. Most KNEW what to do, but for whatever >reason COULDN'T put it into practice. I can't however think >of one occasion when a current race competitor took some >instruction (often only an hour) and didn't improve. It was >down to their discipline to keep doing the "right thing" >whether they continued to go fast .. or go faster. > >Next thing is, I only thought of this 4 hours ago and have >since had to run a few example laps in GPL to put together >this very small package. Unfortunately I don't have the >time right now to labour over it although if there is >interest I'll maybe do some more/tidy it up. > >OK, what is it? Well it's a bit of text, explaining what I >am trying to get across, plus a few short replays using F1, >F2 and F3 cars at either Watkins Geln or Mosport. WG because >many GPLr's ran the demo and know it fairly well, plus it >is short and therefore quick for me to do some laps. If you've >ever read other stuff about technique theres little I'm saying >that you won't have read before but hopefully it might make >more sense when seen in conjunction with the replays. > >I used Mosport as I'd already done a sort of example 4 lap >run there in the F3. > >It is just over 1Mb in total zipped up. I've posted it in >alt.binaries.simulators.autos initially, I will either send it to >anyone else who's interested either directly via email or via >a link to my X-Drive where you can download it uyourself, or >if you want to put it on a web-site I'll consider that also. > >If your already in negative GPLRank territory you might not >get too much from this that you already don't do/know, although >if you've the time I'd appreciate comments as I would from >anyone who tries it, positive or negative. > >For information I'm at +22 in F1, +112 in F2 and +299 in F3, all >are held back by pretty poor ring times. All of the above times >have come down quite a bit in the last 5 days since I intially >posted my comments, as, in doing so I realised that I wasn't >taking my own advice! > >I've put this together as I think it might just help >a few people plus I really enjoyed instructing and this >gives me another virtual go at it. It's not for back-slaps >or an ego-trip, nor to be flamed for daring to tell others >how to drive (although by posting here I realise I must >accept all comment, positive or negative). > >If your interested pop to alt.binaries.simulators.autos >and pick up GPLEGS post. If you want it emailed reply >via email to this and remove the GPL's from both parts >of the email address. If you can't receive attachments >via email then I can email you a link to the file on my >X-Drive and you can pick it up at your leisure (within >7days, X-Drive limit). > >If you want to put it anywhere else, i.e. web site >etc. just let me know first please and include this >blurb. > >Thanks > >Maxx > >PS. Am away this Fri 18:00 GMT till Sun 22:00 GMT >so no responses during this time, sorry. > > >I've downloaded the file, watched the replays and read the text files. The
replays are very impressive. I've never seen such smooth lines before. I
also enjoyed reading the posts, they were very informative. I'll try to
keep all those techniques and the general approach in mind next time I'm on
the track and I'll let you know how I get on.
Thanks,
Simon (+43.7)
"Maxx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
>
> Do I have your attention? good.
>
> OK, First things first, I am not trying to put myself<snip>
Quoted text (7 lines)
> If you want to put it anywhere else, i.e. web site > etc. just let me know first please and include this > blurb. > > Thanks > > MaxxMatt Phelps <matthew.phelps@*spamtrap*ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> On behalf of all of us slow crap people - THANK YOU! :)
>
> On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 18:35:09 +0100, Maxx <[email hidden]>
> wrote:<snip 5 kB>
DON'T send one line reply and copy the whole of the original (if
interesting) long post. Netiquette, ever heard of it?
Tony Whitley
It beats the one liners with no reference at all to the previous post.
Ever wondered - what is that all about? and had to trawl through the
previous posts to find the reference post.
Or is it just me!
Tony
Quoted text (7 lines)
> DON'T send one line reply and copy the whole of the original (if > interesting) long post. Netiquette, ever heard of it? > > Tony Whitley > > >In article <[email hidden]>, Maxx
<[email hidden]> writes:
I don't really have a 'set' turn-in point. I do it by feel, or sense. I've
never notice any markers that would allow me to do this easily. Maybe I need
the cones on the track<g>.
Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL hcp. +49.67
Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Quoted text (19 lines)
>This is what I do which is not recommended. > >Approach the braking point, watching like a hawk where the >point at which I must Ease from Throttle to Brake. I then focus >an keeping straight and braking evenly until I reach the turn-in >point, a quick switch to focusing on the apex comes next >which I watch like a hawk to ensure I hot it spot on. I get >there and switch then to focus on the exit trying to use as >much track as possible and get on the power. > >The things I'm doing wrong that whilst I need to switch my focus >to the Apex just before I reach the turn-in point, if I know the track >well and I'm in control of the car I don't need to watch for the >turn-in point, I'll turn-in just right anway. > >Once I'm pointing towards the apex and under control, I should >be looking at the exit, well before I've got to the apex, which If >I turned in right, and hit the apex right should take care of itself. >Thanks Maxx!
I kind of had figured the "don't hit the brake so hard" part for myself but
getting the theory of it will certainly help!
I'll be practicing the ease on the brake at the same time you ease off the
accelator, I wasn't doing that.
I don't have a GPLRank yet I wasn't able to connect but I did the host trick
just before downloading your files and reading through them.
So after this I'll restart and try to get it up.
All this before trying the new techniques at Monza. I've been at the circuit
for 2 weeks, lowering my laps by .05 a night. BTW I'm nowhere near J.Clark's
(Still a few weeks away should I say) unless I realy do improve with your
technique.
Thanks again.
I bought the game about 2 months ago, It's the best car sim I've ever had!
(And I've been in arcades and in 'puters for nearly 3 decades now...)
Denis
"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
In article <[email hidden]>, Maxx
<[email hidden]> writes:
I don't really have a 'set' turn-in point. I do it by feel, or sense. I've
never notice any markers that would allow me to do this easily. Maybe I
need
the cones on the track<g>.
Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL hcp. +49.67
Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Quoted text (19 lines)
>This is what I do which is not recommended. > >Approach the braking point, watching like a hawk where the >point at which I must Ease from Throttle to Brake. I then focus >an keeping straight and braking evenly until I reach the turn-in >point, a quick switch to focusing on the apex comes next >which I watch like a hawk to ensure I hot it spot on. I get >there and switch then to focus on the exit trying to use as >much track as possible and get on the power. > >The things I'm doing wrong that whilst I need to switch my focus >to the Apex just before I reach the turn-in point, if I know the track >well and I'm in control of the car I don't need to watch for the >turn-in point, I'll turn-in just right anway. > >Once I'm pointing towards the apex and under control, I should >be looking at the exit, well before I've got to the apex, which If >I turned in right, and hit the apex right should take care of itself. >
Simon,
Thanks for the kind words and I'm glad my "message" comes across.
i.e. smooth=fast. Also great to get some feedback as I've been a
little nervous as to how it would be received.
Please feel free to email me if you have any queries etc.
Maxx
On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:07:24 GMT, "Simon Brown"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
Quoted text (7 lines)
>I've downloaded the file, watched the replays and read the text files. The >replays are very impressive. I've never seen such smooth lines before. I >also enjoyed reading the posts, they were very informative. I'll try to >keep all those techniques and the general approach in mind next time I'm on >the track and I'll let you know how I get on. >Thanks, >Simon (+43.7)On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 18:35:09 +0100, Maxx <[email hidden]>
wrote:
>Do I have your attention? good.
AsI said in my original post, it as a little rushed and there were
a couple of points I wanted to make that I really didn't, so here
goes.
RACING GROOVE:
This is the dark area of the track that generally appears before
and through corners and in real-life is causd by rubber getting
layed down from the tyres when the pressure of the tyre on the
tarmac is such that rubber is transferred from the tyre to the track.
Now I know you all know that, but just so we are clear.
I've noticed in myself adn others that "we" often use this very
much like the racing line you get in games like GP3 and we tend
to drive trying to keep the line "underneath" the centre of the car.
This is not quite right, the racing groove will tend to appear on
the "loaded" side of where the car goes through the turn i.e.
on a left-hander, it will appear roughly where the right tyres
run through the corner. These are the ones with significantly more
load on them as they weight and momentum of the car pushes
down on them much more.
Now, of course, the Racing Groove in GPL is not laid down
by real-cars, doing real-laps. It is part of the track graphics.
Although papy did an excellent job with them, there are technical
reasons (so I've heard) why they couldn't place them exactly
where they are likely to have been made in real-life.
So we need to understand that they are a) not tramlines and
b) not accurate in every case.
Assume they were correct for the moment, when you are
running through a left-hander you would be running your right-hand
tyres along the racing groove for a good line, and in a right-hander
the opposite.
Ths can becone tricky at somwhere like WG where you have
the Esses, a right-hander, followed by a left-hander, then another
left-hander. It is "natural" to left your eyes and control input
follow the racing GROOVE as if it where the racing LINE.
Take a lookat some of the hotlaps, you should notice the fast
guys doing this.
I'd thought of turning the groove off as it still lulls me into this
typre of action even though I know it's wrong. Problem is there
are so few refernece points for brake points that I rely so much
on areas of the APPROACH groove to time my braking that I'd
have to look for another reference points.
LOOKING AHEAD:
Specifically in 2 phases, when turning into the Apex and when
driving out of the turn towards the exit point.
I've no idea what others are looking at when I watch their
replays so no idea whether they do the same as I often do.
This is what I do which is not recommended.
Approach the braking point, watching like a hawk where the
point at which I must Ease from Throttle to Brake. I then focus
an keeping straight and braking evenly until I reach the turn-in
point, a quick switch to focusing on the apex comes next
which I watch like a hawk to ensure I hot it spot on. I get
there and switch then to focus on the exit trying to use as
much track as possible and get on the power.
The things I'm doing wrong that whilst I need to switch my focus
to the Apex just before I reach the turn-in point, if I know the track
well and I'm in control of the car I don't need to watch for the
turn-in point, I'll turn-in just right anway.
Once I'm pointing towards the apex and under control, I should
be looking at the exit, well before I've got to the apex, which If
I turned in right, and hit the apex right should take care of itself.
There are some corner where you need to look through the whole
corner to the exit early on which will give you the straigtest line
possible. A not very god example (as it's not really a corner) but
great for demonstrting looking ahead and not getting "distracted"
by the corner itself is the chicane at Monaca. Firstly, foget the
racing groove here , it's wrong and distracting. If you come
down the straight and are positioned correctly (about 1/3rd from
RH side) and you look at an exit point well past the chicane,
about 1/3rd from the LH side (racing groove is about right here).
You can take the chicane absolutely falt in an F1 car with no
great drama and with almost zero controller input (what there
is is subconscious). If you don't take it falt or near flat at the
moment, try it, It's kinda satisfying.
OK, another long post over, but I thought those two points
where worth mentioning. If you have or are about to get the
package, print thios out as well as it is not included at the
moment (may add later).
Maxx
PS. Please feel free to comment/agree/disagree etc.
>DON'T send one line reply and copy the whole of the original (if
>interesting) long post. Netiquette, ever heard of it?
>
>Tony Whitley
Newsgroups always seem to have people like you hanging about waiting
to flame anything that moves. Go out and get some fresh air or
something.
To the rest, sorry about that - I hit reply without thinking. Won't do
it again. Apologies!
Apols for the poor spelling, my PCs setup for racing not typing :-)
Maxx
Matt Phelps <[email hidden]> wrote in message
OK "monkey boy" :-P
> To the rest, sorry about that - I hit reply without thinking. Won't do
> it again. Apologies!Accepted.
Tony Whitley
Quoted text (7 lines)
> > >DON'T send one line reply and copy the whole of the original (if > >interesting) long post. Netiquette, ever heard of it? > > Newsgroups always seem to have people like you hanging about waiting > to flame anything that moves. Go out and get some fresh air or > something.Not to worry, your point comes across as clear as a bell :-)
TJ
Maxx wrote:
>
> Apols for the poor spelling, my PCs setup for racing not typing :-)
>
> Maxx
Tony Whitley wrote:
Bloody hell, did you have to quote every word just for a one word reply
;)
Quoted text (16 lines)
> > Matt Phelps <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > >DON'T send one line reply and copy the whole of the original (if > > >interesting) long post. Netiquette, ever heard of it? > > > > Newsgroups always seem to have people like you hanging about waiting > > to flame anything that moves. Go out and get some fresh air or > > something. > OK "monkey boy" :-P > > > To the rest, sorry about that - I hit reply without thinking. Won't do > > it again. Apologies! > Accepted. > > Tony WhitleyGerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote
> Bloody hell, did you have to quote every word just for a one word reply
> ;)
:))
Is that OK?
Tony Whitley <t o n y . w h i t l e y @ nStPlAwMorld.com> wrote
> OK "monkey boy" :-P
Nice one :-)
--
-Ace-
(GPLRank -4.76)
Ah, the old, "can't type with a steering wheel problem" <bg>
--
-Ace-
(GPLRank -4.76)
Maxx <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> Apols for the poor spelling, my PCs setup for racing not typing :-)
>
> Maxx
Maxx,
You're welcome :)
It's already paying dividends. Just done a new PB at Monza (1:29.59). I
think I've been doing all the same wrong things as Eldred, ie - jumping on
the brakes, going for too much throttle too soon on exit etc. By coming off
the gas smoother and applying the brakes smoothly, I'm no longer locking the
brakes, which means I can get my braking done in a much shorter distance.
My braking is also more consistent, and those times when I need to turn in
whilst still braking, with the brakes not locked I don't spin anymore.
Still early days of course, but it definitely seems to be helping.
Thanks again.
"Maxx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (10 lines)
> > Simon, > > Thanks for the kind words and I'm glad my "message" comes across. > i.e. smooth=fast. Also great to get some feedback as I've been a > little nervous as to how it would be received. > > Please feel free to email me if you have any queries etc. > > MaxxIn article <GNgB5.2080$[email hidden]>, "Tony Whitley"
<t o n y . w h i t l e y @ nStPlAwMorld.com> writes:
I can usually find points for braking. I was referring to the cones(like at
Skip Barber) that are your turn-in, apex, and track out points. I simply can't
tell where those points are in GPL, and I'm sure it's hurting my times. Since
I probably never turn in at the same place twice, my line through the corners
may be very inconsistent.
Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL hcp. +49.67
Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Quoted text (20 lines)
>EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> >> I don't really have a 'set' turn-in point. I do it by feel, or sense. >I've >> never notice any markers that would allow me to do this easily. Maybe I >need >> the cones on the track<g>. >> >(Hey Eldred, what about an instructor in the car, telling you where you're >going wrong :) > >This has always seemed to me to be a shortcoming of GPL. Real drivers always >a have reference points, nowadays this is dumbed-down into 300,200,100 >markers but in the real world there is always something you can use - a >tyre, a barrel, a change in the colour of the grass, whatever. All GPL >really has is the racing groove and while cones would obviously spoil the >authenticity, I think something slightly artificial is needed, I don't know >what, though. >
>OK "monkey boy" :-P
What is that a reference to? The colour of my skin?
no Matt, a previous thread...called something like....
things NOT to say in RAS...there is a website that has a big list of poor
choices. monkey boy is usually a sign somebody has run out of good
arguments...the :-p is a grin..like :) or :>
dave henrie
"Matt Phelps" <matthew.phelps@*spamtrap*.com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> >OK "monkey boy" :-P
>
> What is that a reference to? The colour of my skin?
>
EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> I don't really have a 'set' turn-in point. I do it by feel, or sense.I've
> never notice any markers that would allow me to do this easily. Maybe Ineed
> the cones on the track<g>.
>(Hey Eldred, what about an instructor in the car, telling you where you're
going wrong :)
This has always seemed to me to be a shortcoming of GPL. Real drivers always
a have reference points, nowadays this is dumbed-down into 300,200,100
markers but in the real world there is always something you can use - a
tyre, a barrel, a change in the colour of the grass, whatever. All GPL
really has is the racing groove and while cones would obviously spoil the
authenticity, I think something slightly artificial is needed, I don't know
what, though.
Tony Whitley
GPLRank +13.5
Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:QkfB5.128339$[email hidden]...
Thanks Dave. For the record, my post was strictly tongue-in-cheek (AFAIK :-P
is "sticking tongue out") and intended as a gentle riposte to your
suggestion that I should get out more. And anyway, there's no way I can tell
the colour of your skin from an e-mail...
Tony Whitley
P.S. On Topic: Thanks to Maxx for the advice.
Quoted text (12 lines)
> no Matt, a previous thread...called something like.... > things NOT to say in RAS...there is a website that has a big list of poor > choices. monkey boy is usually a sign somebody has run out of good > arguments...the :-p is a grin..like :) or :> > dave henrie > "Matt Phelps" <matthew.phelps@*spamtrap*.com> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > >OK "monkey boy" :-P > > > > What is that a reference to? The colour of my skin? > >Hi
Where can I get the replay ?
I wana go faster :)
Stefan Zscharnack
Todays Legends
http://home.c2i.net/zlark/racing/drivers.htm
Okay, thanks. I was a bit perplexed as to what he meant by 'Monkey
boy'! No offence taken then.... :)
Quoted text (14 lines)
> no Matt, a previous thread...called something like.... >things NOT to say in RAS...there is a website that has a big list of poor >choices. monkey boy is usually a sign somebody has run out of good >arguments...the :-p is a grin..like :) or :> >dave henrie >"Matt Phelps" <matthew.phelps@*spamtrap*.com> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> >> >OK "monkey boy" :-P >> >> What is that a reference to? The colour of my skin? >> > >
Okay Tony, I got the wrong end of the stick because I didn't
understand the reference.
No offence taken. :)
Quoted text (10 lines)
>Thanks Dave. For the record, my post was strictly tongue-in-cheek (AFAIK :-P >is "sticking tongue out") and intended as a gentle riposte to your >suggestion that I should get out more. And anyway, there's no way I can tell >the colour of your skin from an e-mail... > >Tony Whitley >P.S. On Topic: Thanks to Maxx for the advice. > > >Stefan Zscharnack <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:vNhB5.2866$[email hidden]...
> Hi
> Where can I get the replay ?
> I wana go faster :)
>OP: "It is just over 1Mb in total zipped up. I've posted it in
alt.binaries.simulators.autos initially"
> "Matt Phelps" <matthew.phelps@*spamtrap*.com> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
> >
> > >OK "monkey boy" :-P
> >
> > What is that a reference to? The colour of my skin?
On the Net, nobody knows you're plaid.
Sorry it is no post at alt.binaries.simulators.autos
But I still want the replay
SZ
Now 1:29.20 and another half second to come off when I get lesmo 2 right :)
"Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:6D8B5.18107$[email hidden]...
> Maxx,
>
> You're welcome :)
> It's already paying dividends. Just done a new PB at Monza (1:29.59). I<snip>
> Thanks again.
"> This has always seemed to me to be a shortcoming of GPL. Real drivers
always
> a have reference points, nowadays this is dumbed-down into 300,200,100
> markers but in the real world there is always something you can use - a
> tyre, a barrel, a change in the colour of the grass, whatever. All GPL
> really has is the racing groove and while cones would obviously spoil the
> authenticity, I think something slightly artificial is needed, I don'tknow
> what, though.
>
> Tony Whitley
> GPLRank +13.5 Hey Tony! You should have heard the CART drivers after they got back to
Laguna Seca. For years there has been a tree near the top that many drivers
used as a reference point for braking and where to aim when turning down the
blind Corkscrew turn. Well after the driver death up there last year, they
reconfigured the run-off area and the tree was taken out...A couple of long
time Laguna drivers dang near lost it cuz they didn't have the tree to use
anymore.
dave henrie
gpl rank...uh uh...pretty dang high..:)
Stefan,
You can email me (remove GPL's from before and after
the @ sign), and I'll send it to you.
Not sure if the email address shown in valid, may send
a test message to make sure and if seems OK will send
it you anyway.
Just back from a weekend away, no GPL and no Internet.
Will be sending out mail to all those who have requested
it over the weekend.
Good to see some positive comment
Maxx
On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 15:19:47 GMT, "Stefan Zscharnack"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
>Sorry it is no post at alt.binaries.simulators.autos
>But I still want the replay
>SZ
>
Simon,
Great Stuff! nice to see it having an effect on your "bottom-line"
already. I'm sure you've read it 1000 times before but Lesmo 2
is arguably (not by anyone I know though) the most important
EXIT at Monza. Don't be afraid to take a "little" grass on the exit.
Maxx
On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 21:17:39 GMT, "Simon Brown"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
Quoted text (12 lines)
>Now 1:29.20 and another half second to come off when I get lesmo 2 right :) > >"Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:6D8B5.18107$[email hidden]... >> Maxx, >> >> You're welcome :) >> It's already paying dividends. Just done a new PB at Monza (1:29.59). I ><snip> >> Thanks again. > >
Eldred,
I'm pretty sure I'm the same, with maybe one of two exceptions. There
is a later post about having cones on the circuit to show these things
and this is what we used at JR and is I'm sure used at all schools.
We had different coloured cones for the Braking Point, Turn-In,
Apex and Exit point.
Thats only for training and they are soon taken away and the driver
left to use sense or some other fixed visible point. There is a slight
problem with these, often small, fixed points, in that you have to
keep your focus on the turn-in point too late and may often miss
the apex (or the fact that theres a car stalled in mid-corner.
Another aspect is that in a race you may not get the luxury of
being on the exact same line and in the same place everytime so
you need to have a mental map of the corner.
It is also valid to alter the line through a corner to either carry a
bit more speed in (slip by someone on the inside) or take a
later apex and hopefully get more speed out and get past the
guy in front on the following straight.
Maxx
>I don't really have a 'set' turn-in point. I do it by feel, or sense. I've
>never notice any markers that would allow me to do this easily. Maybe I need
>the cones on the track<g>.
>
>Eldred
On Fri, 29 Sep 2000 22:54:15 -0400, "Eden" <[email hidden]> wrote:
Denis,
>Thanks Maxx!
Your Welcome.
GPLRank site still has a few problems, often the ringlord server
refuses port 80 (HTTP) requests, as it is at the moment.
It's not my technique, you'd hear the same at any decent racing school
in the world, just thought I'd share it with a wider audience who
haven't had the opportunity to visit a racing school.
I think quite a few people start of with a decent technique, but when
the beating of PBs stops adn you start going backwards you start to
adopt .. ineffective (in the long term) habits.
Kep it up.
Maxx
Quoted text (8 lines)
>I kind of had figured the "don't hit the brake so hard" part for myself but >getting the theory of it will certainly help! > >I'll be practicing the ease on the brake at the same time you ease off the >accelator, I wasn't doing that. > >I don't have a GPLRank yet I wasn't able to connect but I did the host trick >just before downloading your files and reading through them.Quoted text (7 lines)
> >So after this I'll restart and try to get it up. > >All this before trying the new techniques at Monza. I've been at the circuit >for 2 weeks, lowering my laps by .05 a night. BTW I'm nowhere near J.Clark's >(Still a few weeks away should I say) unless I realy do improve with your >technique.Quoted text (7 lines)
> >Thanks again. > >I bought the game about 2 months ago, It's the best car sim I've ever had! >(And I've been in arcades and in 'puters for nearly 3 decades now...) > >Denis
>(Hey Eldred, what about an instructor in the car, telling you where you're
>going wrong :)
Stay Tuned :-)
I wondered if this new Skip Barber game/sim included elements of
racing school tactics (i.e. cones etc.) would be pretty cool I think
but without first-rate physics not really a thing most of us will be
trying I think.
I'm pretty sure the Jim Russell School was around in 67 so a
training track in GPL with cones wouldn't be historically inacurate
in itself, but not in keeping with the GPL model (and not that
useful on it's own).
Maxx
>Tony Whitley
>GPLRank +13.5
>
Quoted text (7 lines)
>This has always seemed to me to be a shortcoming of GPL. Real drivers always >a have reference points, nowadays this is dumbed-down into 300,200,100 >markers but in the real world there is always something you can use - a >tyre, a barrel, a change in the colour of the grass, whatever. All GPL >really has is the racing groove and while cones would obviously spoil the >authenticity, I think something slightly artificial is needed, I don't know >what, though.
Reading that I just thought I'd share with you an experience. I
decided to try my first online race at Solitude, I knew the track a
little but not well so had a few practice laps first. Trying to pick
up a few turn-in points there where two I had where I turned in
where a marshall stood (not a good idea in real life!!) .. they
move.
Anyway, feeling fairly comfortable I prepared for the online
session. I's read it was a good idea, if you where running
max detail off-line to cut back on the fancy bits when you
go online. so first I went in and switched a few graphic
options off/down ... you can tell whats coming can't you?
Well off I went, blasting down the straight keeping a beady
eye out for the marshall and the bugger had gone! has of
course had all of them.
Maxx
On Sun, 01 Oct 2000 00:19:18 GMT, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]>
wrote:
Quoted text (25 lines)
> >"> This has always seemed to me to be a shortcoming of GPL. Real drivers >always >> a have reference points, nowadays this is dumbed-down into 300,200,100 >> markers but in the real world there is always something you can use - a >> tyre, a barrel, a change in the colour of the grass, whatever. All GPL >> really has is the racing groove and while cones would obviously spoil the >> authenticity, I think something slightly artificial is needed, I don't >know >> what, though. >> >> Tony Whitley >> GPLRank +13.5 > Hey Tony! You should have heard the CART drivers after they got back to >Laguna Seca. For years there has been a tree near the top that many drivers >used as a reference point for braking and where to aim when turning down the >blind Corkscrew turn. Well after the driver death up there last year, they >reconfigured the run-off area and the tree was taken out...A couple of long >time Laguna drivers dang near lost it cuz they didn't have the tree to use >anymore. >dave henrie >gpl rank...uh uh...pretty dang high..:) > > >Maxx,
I noticed today driving at Brands offline, that my optimum driving line
was considerably different from the racing groove. It was distracting me
from finding the right apex points so I thought maybe I should turn it
off and see if I could find my way round better. Had lots to do today so
I was only able to put in 10 laps, but guess what?? was driving
consistently quick laps (for me) was able to find visual turn in points
better and took a full 4 tenths off my personal best!
In the short amount of time that I've had to do any driving this weekend
(about 25 laps total), I've broken 2 PB times a different tracks
w/different cars.
Looking forward to your next posts!!
Thomas
On Sun, 01 Oct 2000 23:17:21 GMT, Thomas JS Brown <[email hidden]>
wrote:
>Maxx,
>
>I noticed today driving at Brands offline, that my optimum driving line
>was considerably different from the racing groove. It was distracting me<snip>
Yes, the groove at Brands is quite distracting, I just noticed that
today too. I haven't tried turning it off, will try that next time.
Andre
Thomas,
Very interesting, although I'm aware at many tracks that the groove is
not where I wan't to be I've never turned it off as generally I use it
for most of my braking points. I'm sure it's a distraction even though
I know it's not where I want to be, just need to do as you have done
and try it without. I'm pretty sure that I'd have some "sense" of
where to brake and also that there are other reference points as
you say.
Maybe an experiment a few others could try.
Maxx
On Sun, 01 Oct 2000 23:17:21 GMT, Thomas JS Brown <[email hidden]>
wrote:
Quoted text (17 lines)
>Maxx, > >I noticed today driving at Brands offline, that my optimum driving line >was considerably different from the racing groove. It was distracting me >from finding the right apex points so I thought maybe I should turn it >off and see if I could find my way round better. Had lots to do today so >I was only able to put in 10 laps, but guess what?? was driving >consistently quick laps (for me) was able to find visual turn in points >better and took a full 4 tenths off my personal best! > >In the short amount of time that I've had to do any driving this weekend >(about 25 laps total), I've broken 2 PB times a different tracks >w/different cars. > >Looking forward to your next posts!! > >Thomas
Hey Simon,
Noticed your GPLRank now 41.88, keep it up.
Maxx
On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:07:24 GMT, "Simon Brown"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
Quoted text (25 lines)
>I've downloaded the file, watched the replays and read the text files. The >replays are very impressive. I've never seen such smooth lines before. I >also enjoyed reading the posts, they were very informative. I'll try to >keep all those techniques and the general approach in mind next time I'm on >the track and I'll let you know how I get on. >Thanks, >Simon (+43.7) > >"Maxx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> >> >> Do I have your attention? good. >> >> OK, First things first, I am not trying to put myself ><snip> >> If you want to put it anywhere else, i.e. web site >> etc. just let me know first please and include this >> blurb. >> >> Thanks >> >> Maxx > >Also thought you might like to know I won my first ever AI race yesterday.
Ok, it was only novice at Monza, but it still took some consistent driving.
Apart from the first lap, every lap was in the 1:30.xx in the eagle. I
don't lose time to the AI cars in the braking zones now, and I can
out-accelerate them out of most corners.
I think it's also helped to switch to a different wheel. I usually use a
LWFF, but I'm now trying a Microsoft Precision Racing wheel, which is the
non-FF version of the USB Sidewinder wheel. It has excellent pedals
compared to the LWFF and that has also helped.
Simon.
"Maxx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> Hey Simon,
>
> Noticed your GPLRank now 41.88, keep it up.
>
> Maxx
Simon,
Great Stuff!
I also use the MS Precision Pedals but with my ACT Labs Force RS
wheel. The pedals have a good amount of travel. plus you can
slip 1/2 a squash ball behind the brake pedal to give it some
resistance and a real brake feel. I've just bought a pack of those
foam tennis balls which give even more progressive feel.
Maxx
On Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:16:41 GMT, "Simon Brown"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
Quoted text (23 lines)
>Also thought you might like to know I won my first ever AI race yesterday. >Ok, it was only novice at Monza, but it still took some consistent driving. >Apart from the first lap, every lap was in the 1:30.xx in the eagle. I >don't lose time to the AI cars in the braking zones now, and I can >out-accelerate them out of most corners. > >I think it's also helped to switch to a different wheel. I usually use a >LWFF, but I'm now trying a Microsoft Precision Racing wheel, which is the >non-FF version of the USB Sidewinder wheel. It has excellent pedals >compared to the LWFF and that has also helped. > >Simon. > >"Maxx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> >> Hey Simon, >> >> Noticed your GPLRank now 41.88, keep it up. >> >> Maxx > >I use a set of Nascar Pro pedals with my LWFF...I switched the wire
harness from the Logi to the Nascar Pro and it seems to be a good
arrangement, though I would like to add more resistance to the brake
pedal throw...
Maxx wrote:
Quoted text (38 lines)
> > Simon, > > Great Stuff! > I also use the MS Precision Pedals but with my ACT Labs Force RS > wheel. The pedals have a good amount of travel. plus you can > slip 1/2 a squash ball behind the brake pedal to give it some > resistance and a real brake feel. I've just bought a pack of those > foam tennis balls which give even more progressive feel. > > Maxx > > On Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:16:41 GMT, "Simon Brown" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Also thought you might like to know I won my first ever AI race yesterday. > >Ok, it was only novice at Monza, but it still took some consistent driving. > >Apart from the first lap, every lap was in the 1:30.xx in the eagle. I > >don't lose time to the AI cars in the braking zones now, and I can > >out-accelerate them out of most corners. > > > >I think it's also helped to switch to a different wheel. I usually use a > >LWFF, but I'm now trying a Microsoft Precision Racing wheel, which is the > >non-FF version of the USB Sidewinder wheel. It has excellent pedals > >compared to the LWFF and that has also helped. > > > >Simon. > > > >"Maxx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:[email hidden]... > >> > >> Hey Simon, > >> > >> Noticed your GPLRank now 41.88, keep it up. > >> > >> Maxx > > > >This is the setup I used to use, I'm still to find a set of pedals as good
as the TM Nascar Pro (called the F1 Racing Wheel in the UK). I love the
almost vertical angle of those pedals and the huge travel.
Maxx, I tried the Precision pedals with the LWFF but it was just too much of
a mess having two wheels/pedals on/under the same desk, plus getting both
controllers working together was a bit of a problem, only GPL could cope
with it, and even GPL would keep asking me to re-calibrate one of them every
so often. I'm happy just using the Precision racing wheel now, pedals and
wheel.
"Thomas JS Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> I use a set of Nascar Pro pedals with my LWFF...I switched the wire
> harness from the Logi to the Nascar Pro and it seems to be a good
> arrangement, though I would like to add more resistance to the brake
> pedal throw...
Thomas JS Brown <[email hidden]> schrieb
> I use a set of Nascar Pro pedals with my LWFF...I switched the wire
> harness from the Logi to the Nascar Pro and it seems to be a good
> arrangement, though I would like to add more resistance to the brake
> pedal throw...
I'm using the same setup, TM Nascar Pro (F1 called in Europe) hardwired
to the LWFF and I've put the springs of the LWFF pedals underneath the
TM pedals to have more resistance. Try it, they fit exactly, I didn't
even have to tape them.
Peter
New GPLRank +35.79!
:)
"Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:YUpD5.1480$[email hidden]...
><blah>
>
Excellent! I make that an almost 8 second improvement in just
one week. As you've no doubt found out, once you get under +50
those seconds get harder and harder to find. Keep it up.
Maxx
On Sat, 07 Oct 2000 02:19:24 GMT, "Simon Brown"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
Quoted text (10 lines)
>New GPLRank +35.79! >:) > >"Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:YUpD5.1480$[email hidden]... >> ><blah> >> > >
Ace,
Yes, same pedals. My Force RS is serial and the MS wheel is USB. I
just have them both plugged in at the same time and GPL recoginses the
RS wheel and the MS pedals. If you can connect them both (i.e. game
pot/usb, usb/usb) you should be fine.
I have the MS wheel as controller 1 and the Force RS as 2, but I
think they'd work either way.
Maxx
PS. This also works for GP3
On Sat, 7 Oct 2000 19:05:12 +0100, "Ace" <[email hidden]>
wrote:
>Are those the same pedals that come with the Sidewinder FF wheel? What mods
>are necessary in order to use them with the Force RS?
Are those the same pedals that come with the Sidewinder FF wheel? What mods
are necessary in order to use them with the Force RS?
--
-Ace-
(GPLRank -4.85)
Maxx <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> Simon,
>
> Great Stuff!
> I also use the MS Precision Pedals but with my ACT Labs Force RS
> wheel. The pedals have a good amount of travel. plus you can
> slip 1/2 a squash ball behind the brake pedal to give it some
> resistance and a real brake feel. I've just bought a pack of those
> foam tennis balls which give even more progressive feel.
>
> Maxx
>
> On Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:16:41 GMT, "Simon Brown"
> <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
> >Also thought you might like to know I won my first ever AI race
yesterday.
> >Ok, it was only novice at Monza, but it still took some consistent
driving.
> >Apart from the first lap, every lap was in the 1:30.xx in the eagle. I
> >don't lose time to the AI cars in the braking zones now, and I can
> >out-accelerate them out of most corners.
> >
> >I think it's also helped to switch to a different wheel. I usually use a
> >LWFF, but I'm now trying a Microsoft Precision Racing wheel, which is the
> >non-FF version of the USB Sidewinder wheel. It has excellent pedals
> >compared to the LWFF and that has also helped.
> >
> >Simon.
> >
> >"Maxx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> >news:[email hidden]...
> >>
> >> Hey Simon,
> >>
> >> Noticed your GPLRank now 41.88, keep it up.
> >>
> >> Maxx
> >
> >
>
Nice one. Thanks! I should have guessed that :-)
--
-Ace-
(GPLRank -4.85)
Maxx <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> Ace,
>
> Yes, same pedals. My Force RS is serial and the MS wheel is USB. I
> just have them both plugged in at the same time and GPL recoginses the
> RS wheel and the MS pedals. If you can connect them both (i.e. game
> pot/usb, usb/usb) you should be fine.
>
> I have the MS wheel as controller 1 and the Force RS as 2, but I
> think they'd work either way.
>
> Maxx
>
> PS. This also works for GP3
Maxx,
Are you going to post your tips on a site somewhere? I tried to download
them from r.a.s.binaries but just got a bunch of code.
Thanks,
--
don
New GPL Programs for the Converted Tracks:
http://www.ianparker1.plus.com/gpl/bapom/
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be
misquoted, then used against you.
Hehe, thanks again for your help. I still reckon there's another 5-8
seconds to come off that GPL Rank without even starting on the Ring. I
actually did 5 PB's at 5 different circuits all in one night :) I bet that
won't happen again.
"Maxx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> Excellent! I make that an almost 8 second improvement in just
> one week. As you've no doubt found out, once you get under +50
> those seconds get harder and harder to find. Keep it up.
>
> Maxx
+33.93 :)
1:22.03 at Kyalami and 1:23.77 at Mosport.
"Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:sHOD5.5219$[email hidden]...
> Hehe, thanks again for your help. I still reckon there's another 5-8
> seconds to come off that GPL Rank without even starting on the Ring. I
> actually did 5 PB's at 5 different circuits all in one night :) I betthat
> won't happen again.
Thanks for the tip...
Thomas
> I'm using the same setup, TM Nascar Pro (F1 called in Europe) hardwired
> to the LWFF and I've put the springs of the LWFF pedals underneath the
> TM pedals to have more resistance. Try it, they fit exactly, I didn't
> even have to tape them.
>
> Peter
Simon,
>Hehe, thanks again for your help. I still reckon there's another 5-8
>seconds to come off that GPL Rank without even starting on the Ring. I
>actually did 5 PB's at 5 different circuits all in one night :) I bet that
>won't happen again.
I see no reason why not. Since I started listening to myself and
actually doing what I describe in GPLEGS I've found that setting a
new PB is just a question of putting a dozen or so laps in and just
trying to make the laps as smooth and precise as possible. I'm
not even resorting to any late braking manouvres, fancy setups
or more advanced techniques at this stage, I feel I can still
beat all my PBs just concentrating on the basics.
When I first replied to Eldred my F1/F2 Ranks = 26.07/121.86
Less than a week later they'd dropped to = 22.75/112.46
Now, one week further on they are = 12.79/ 92.43
The other effect is that I rarely spin out on any lap and most
are within a few 10ths of my PB. I do occasionally find myself
thinking, "maybe if a brake a touch later I can improve further"
but EVERY time I do I end up slower.
Many congrats on your rapidly improving rank, looks like I need
to get working on the advanced package :-)
Maxx
On Sat, 07 Oct 2000 23:52:56 GMT, "Simon Brown"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
Quoted text (11 lines)
> >"Maxx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> >> Excellent! I make that an almost 8 second improvement in just >> one week. As you've no doubt found out, once you get under +50 >> those seconds get harder and harder to find. Keep it up. >> >> Maxx > >don hodgdon wrote:
>
> Maxx,
>
> Are you going to post your tips on a site somewhere? I tried to download
> them from r.a.s.binaries but just got a bunch of code.
I agreed, this stuff really should be available to a larger audience
than those who frequent r.a.s., if you don't have a website of your own,
I know of at least one site that would be happy to host it for you :-)
Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
http://www.theuspits.com
http://www.teammirage.com
"Mountain climbing, auto racing and bullfighting
are the only true sports...all others are games."
--Ernest Hemingway--
+31.50
1:50.94 at Mexico.
"Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:%dQD5.5568$[email hidden]...
> +33.93 :)
>
> 1:22.03 at Kyalami and 1:23.77 at Mosport.
Quoted text (17 lines)
>don hodgdon wrote: >> >> Maxx, >> >> Are you going to post your tips on a site somewhere? I tried to download >> them from r.a.s.binaries but just got a bunch of code. > >I agreed, this stuff really should be available to a larger audience >than those who frequent r.a.s., if you don't have a website of your own, >I know of at least one site that would be happy to host it for you :-) > > >Beers and cheers >(uncle) Goy > >http://www.theuspits.com >http://www.teammirage.comWell, I'm on the same tracks but still along way behind you. It takes me a
few laps round the ring just to get my reactions up to speed and my
throttle/brake control smooth enough. It takes me about 20+ laps round a
normal track before I can challenge my best times sometimes.
My GPL Rank is really suffering from my awful PB at the Ring (8:44). I
still only manage maybe 1 lap in 6 without a spin. I've tried everything,
driving the track in F3, racing instead of training, driving the easier
cars, but it's just not working. Any advice?
"Maxx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (25 lines)
> > Simon, > > I see no reason why not. Since I started listening to myself and > actually doing what I describe in GPLEGS I've found that setting a > new PB is just a question of putting a dozen or so laps in and just > trying to make the laps as smooth and precise as possible. I'm > not even resorting to any late braking manouvres, fancy setups > or more advanced techniques at this stage, I feel I can still > beat all my PBs just concentrating on the basics. > > When I first replied to Eldred my F1/F2 Ranks = 26.07/121.86 > Less than a week later they'd dropped to = 22.75/112.46 > Now, one week further on they are = 12.79/ 92.43 > > The other effect is that I rarely spin out on any lap and most > are within a few 10ths of my PB. I do occasionally find myself > thinking, "maybe if a brake a touch later I can improve further" > but EVERY time I do I end up slower. > > Many congrats on your rapidly improving rank, looks like I need > to get working on the advanced package :-) > > Maxx >On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 21:28:39 GMT, "Simon Brown"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
>>>>>>>My GPL Rank is really suffering from my awful PB at the Ring (8:44). I
>still only manage maybe 1 lap in 6 without a spin. I've tried everything,
>driving the track in F3, racing instead of training, driving the easier
>cars, but it's just not working. Any advice?
One thing that still helps me are G. Huttu's high-cockpit files.
In case you don't know, they raise your driver-view, so you can see
more (higher equals better view of what's ahead).
They help more so at circuits like the Ring, as there are more hills,
corners, etc. The high-cockpit views will give a bit more information
about an upcoming hill, corner, etc, before you get there.
One thing; unless you have the correct/modified cockpit(s), your head
may look a bit "chopped off" in replays..<g>. Otherwise the files work
fine.
Lots of head-riser files here (did not see Conventry though):
At: http://koti.mbnet.fi/ghuttu/gpl_other.htm
G.Huttu Home page: http://koti.mbnet.fi/ghuttu/
------
Matt
Matt,
[snip]
> One thing that still helps me are G. Huttu's high-cockpit files.
> In case you don't know, they raise your driver-view, so you can see
>more (higher equals better view of what's ahead). [snip]
Funny you should say that ...
I've been tidying up the GPLEGS package for inclusion on a couple
of web sites and have also produced an additional section on helping
to improve line (which I have said IMO is the most important single
aspect to going faster).
Here it is :
POST6.TXT Additional Information for GPLEGS, created 09 Oct 2000
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Suggestions.
As I've mentioned in previous posts, using the optimum line is
arguably the most important element in getting round a racetrack
quickly.
Here are some suggestion that may help you improve your line.
A N A L Y S I S
===============
1) LOOK AT YOUR REPLAYS
Specifically from
1) Chase View
2) Overhead View
You will need to install the camera files located here :
http://www.geocities.com/dmackf2/Camera_Angles.html
In order to get the overhead views.
These will allow you to see what your car is doing through the
bends and see your usage of the track (making the most of all
the track on the entry/exit and your line etc.)
2) ANALYSE/COMPARE YOUR REPLAYS
Once you are fairly happy with your line etc. Save your best
single lap replay, download a hotlap replay from here :
http://www.parc-ferme.de/fastlaps.htm
If you haven't already got GPL Replay Analyser (RA) get it here :
http://home.bip.net/martin/gplra/
Load both of them in, tick them both and press Play of FFwd.
when both laps have finished. Select "Manual" as Focus Setting
and select View->Panning Tool. Then examine yours and the hotlaps
line around the circuit. make a note or areas where you are
different. Generally speaking the hotlap will have the more optimum
line.
You can also use RA to compare some of your own laps to check
consistency or where you are losing/gaining time.
There are lots of additional option in RA, by all means have a look
at them but don't get too hung up about them.
D R I V I N G
=============
1) Drive with "Arcade" View ... occasionally!
This is a bit controversial and if you are a purist then move on to
item 2) in this section now. But, if you are struggling to find the
line for a circuit or just curious, try runing a few laps in Arcade
View (press F10).
It does give you an added perspective and helps to build a little of
what I call "muscle-memory". Often, if you are still struggling
with the line, and a bit shakey controlling the car you can run
quicker in arcade view.
This is not the point however, as you run in arcade view, you will do
exactly the same pedal and controller inputs as if you were in the
cockpit but you are aided by the additional information you can see in
this view.
Don't run in this view too long however, just enough to get more
comfortable with the line. I'd also say, if you set a PB with this
view, it's NOT a valid PB and you should try and better it (which you
will) in Cockpit view. After all this is a simulation of 1967 Grand
Prix Racing not Scalextric/Slotcar.
I struggled with the blind crests at Mosport until I ran about 10 laps
in arcade view, I actually did set a PB that way but went back to
cockpit and within another 6 or 8 laps had beaten that from the
cockpit view.
2) Use some of the Hi-Cockpit Views.
Not sure if this is controversial or not, to my mind it's perfectly in
keeping with the reality, you could be a tall driver and/or could
adjust your seat padding accordingly.
Essentially these give you a slightly higher perspective than the
normal one you get in GPL. I think they are available for a number
of the cars but not all.
The advantage they give you early on is that you can see a little more
of the circuit i.e. turn in points/apex's/exit's which will help a
little.
If you remember to back up your cars67 folder first, you can always
revert back to the standard viewpoint at any time. You may want to do
this once you are really familiar with the track, they feel "cosier"
to my view, if you can feel cosy in a 200MPH, 400+ BHP rocket
on wheels :-)
There are some "extra" high cockpits around. Unless you are 8ft
tall or over I'd steer clear of these as they are too unrealistic IMO.
You can get high cockpits from here :
http://koti.mbnet.fi/ghuttu/gpl_other.htm
As you will see they are used/made? by Greger Huttu, which is no bad
recommendation.
You may need revised car files but these, along with then URLS to get
them, are all listed.
End
On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 05:36:06 GMT, teehole <holysmokes!@spammy.net>
wrote:
Quoted text (30 lines)
>On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 21:28:39 GMT, "Simon Brown" ><[email hidden]> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>My GPL Rank is really suffering from my awful PB at the Ring (8:44). I >>still only manage maybe 1 lap in 6 without a spin. I've tried everything, >>driving the track in F3, racing instead of training, driving the easier >>cars, but it's just not working. Any advice? > > One thing that still helps me are G. Huttu's high-cockpit files. > In case you don't know, they raise your driver-view, so you can see >more (higher equals better view of what's ahead). > > They help more so at circuits like the Ring, as there are more hills, >corners, etc. The high-cockpit views will give a bit more information >about an upcoming hill, corner, etc, before you get there. > > One thing; unless you have the correct/modified cockpit(s), your head >may look a bit "chopped off" in replays..<g>. Otherwise the files work >fine. > > Lots of head-riser files here (did not see Conventry though): > > At: http://koti.mbnet.fi/ghuttu/gpl_other.htm > >G.Huttu Home page: http://koti.mbnet.fi/ghuttu/ > ------ > Matt > >Thanks for the advice Maxx and teehole. I think Replay Analyser is very
useful, particularly when you hit a total dead-end and can't see, let alone
find any more speed. Normal replays as well, i've found very useful. I
wouldn't have got down under 1:51 at Mexico without watching Doug Arnou's
lap that comes with GPL.
I figured out last night what i've been doing wrong at the Ring. I've just
been giving the course too much respect and not being positive enough. I
messed up a hot-lap at turn one, which is pretty damn frustrating, drove the
rest of the lap in a very angry attacking stance, and my time turned out to
be 8:48 which included 21 seconds worth of spins. So if I can drive the
same positive way without the spins I should be around 8:30.
Basically I haven't been using anything like enough throttle. Also the
more positive approach improves my concentration.
I can see the reason behind using the F10 view and higher cockpit cams to
see more of the track, and get more confidence where the track goes. I like
to watch my Ring replays from the roll-bar view, which acheives the same
thing. I don't know about actually *driving* from a different view though,
I think I'm too much of a purist for that, but watching replays from those
views will hopefully have the same effect.
Most of these techniques are in the 'fine-tuning' category, my real problems
are concentration over such a long lap, which wearing headphones seems to
help with, and consistency. Anyway, i'll post back if my new aggressive
approach gets any results.
Thanks again for the continued help.
"Maxx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> Funny you should say that ...
>
> I've been tidying up the GPLEGS package for inclusion on a couple<snip>
Quoted text (7 lines)
> recommendation. > > You may need revised car files but these, along with then URLS to get > them, are all listed. > > End >
Simon,
Was about to reply to you more specifically this morning. Glad you
discovered a new tactic at the ring. I 've just "dug out" this old
post I did for someone new to the ring, heres an extract :
---------
I found I needed to adopt the philosophy of ... I think it's Gianno
Tifosi who's nickname is "Drive it like you stole it"
----------
Thats basicaly what you have found, you have to go fot it and
not be afraid to use all the track and when you are able to get
on the gas go for it. What I meant by the above was to drive
like you are being chased .. take a few risks
Now, you do need some basic technique first, and I wouldn't
advise this to someone who is still struggling with the basics,
they'll simply end up frustrated and spinnning/shift-r'ing all the
time.
The F2 or F3 are good for learning the circuit, certainly in F2
the braking and gearchange points are about the same and
as you are going that little bit slower, you are less inclined
to lock up and spin off, or to wheelspin your way into a spin.
You can do well under 9mins in an F2 (WR=8:27) so they
are still pretty quick. (even the F3 WR is just 9:29).
If you were driving a "normal" circuit, you would generally
highlight a particular corner that you needed to work on
and work on improving that, lap after lap. At the ring MOST
people I suspect just drive and hope they can avoid a spin
and keep their concentration for the full lap.
I'm no Ring Meister being at 8:32 in F1. That includes a couple
of dodgy moments and so I think with a clean run I can get close
to the Papy Benchmark of 8:21 BUT in order to get there and
beyond I'm sure I am going to have to concentrate on certain
sections and improve my speed through them. In particular any
section that leads onto a longish straight as these will give the
most benefit.
Good luck on your next run.
Maxx
On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 11:18:30 GMT, "Simon Brown"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
Quoted text (46 lines)
>Thanks for the advice Maxx and teehole. I think Replay Analyser is very >useful, particularly when you hit a total dead-end and can't see, let alone >find any more speed. Normal replays as well, i've found very useful. I >wouldn't have got down under 1:51 at Mexico without watching Doug Arnou's >lap that comes with GPL. > >I figured out last night what i've been doing wrong at the Ring. I've just >been giving the course too much respect and not being positive enough. I >messed up a hot-lap at turn one, which is pretty damn frustrating, drove the >rest of the lap in a very angry attacking stance, and my time turned out to >be 8:48 which included 21 seconds worth of spins. So if I can drive the >same positive way without the spins I should be around 8:30. > >Basically I haven't been using anything like enough throttle. Also the >more positive approach improves my concentration. > >I can see the reason behind using the F10 view and higher cockpit cams to >see more of the track, and get more confidence where the track goes. I like >to watch my Ring replays from the roll-bar view, which acheives the same >thing. I don't know about actually *driving* from a different view though, >I think I'm too much of a purist for that, but watching replays from those >views will hopefully have the same effect. > >Most of these techniques are in the 'fine-tuning' category, my real problems >are concentration over such a long lap, which wearing headphones seems to >help with, and consistency. Anyway, i'll post back if my new aggressive >approach gets any results. > >Thanks again for the continued help. > >"Maxx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> >> Funny you should say that ... >> >> I've been tidying up the GPLEGS package for inclusion on a couple ><snip> >> recommendation. >> >> You may need revised car files but these, along with then URLS to get >> them, are all listed. >> >> End >> > >
Great Stuff Simon. You must have been driving as I was replying.
Now you need at least a week in F3s as your getting too damn close to
my GPLRank! ... only kidding, great work, keep it up.
Maxx
On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:24:07 GMT, "Simon Brown"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
>Whoa! 8:32.37 on my fourth lap. GPL Rank +19.40. Plenty more to come at
>the Ring as well I reckon.
>:))))
>
Whoa! 8:32.37 on my fourth lap. GPL Rank +19.40. Plenty more to come at
the Ring as well I reckon.
:))))
Thanks for the advice Maxx and teehole. I think Replay Analyser is very
useful, particularly when you hit a total dead-end and can't see, let alone
find any more speed. Normal replays as well, i've found very useful. I
wouldn't have got down under 1:51 at Mexico without watching Doug Arnou's
lap that comes with GPL.
I figured out last night what i've been doing wrong at the Ring. I've just
been giving the course too much respect and not being positive enough. I
messed up a hot-lap at turn one, which is pretty damn frustrating, drove the
rest of the lap in a very angry attacking stance, and my time turned out to
be 8:48 which included 21 seconds worth of spins. So if I can drive the
same positive way without the spins I should be around 8:30.
Basically I haven't been using anything like enough throttle. Also the
more positive approach improves my concentration.
I can see the reason behind using the F10 view and higher cockpit cams to
see more of the track, and get more confidence where the track goes. I like
to watch my Ring replays from the roll-bar view, which acheives the same
thing. I don't know about actually *driving* from a different view though,
I think I'm too much of a purist for that, but watching replays from those
views will hopefully have the same effect.
Most of these techniques are in the 'fine-tuning' category, my real problems
are concentration over such a long lap, which wearing headphones seems to
help with, and consistency. Anyway, i'll post back if my new aggressive
approach gets any results.
Thanks again for the continued help.
"Maxx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> Funny you should say that ...
>
> I've been tidying up the GPLEGS package for inclusion on a couple<snip>
Quoted text (7 lines)
> recommendation. > > You may need revised car files but these, along with then URLS to get > them, are all listed. > > End >In article <[email hidden]>, Maxx
<[email hidden]> writes:
>Thats basicaly what you have found, you have to go fot it and
>not be afraid to use all the track and when you are able to get
>on the gas go for it. What I meant by the above was to drive
>like you are being chased .. take a few risks
Hehe... I had this happen in an online practice race(Monaco) in our Cooper
league. I was being followed by another driver. He was *obviously* faster
than me, but he was content with staying on my bumper - er, gearbox...<g>
I ended up setting a PB of 1:31.82(Cooper) that I've only BARELY(1:31.52 -
Ferrari) beaten since...
Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL hcp. +49.67
Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
In article <[email hidden]>, Maxx
<[email hidden]> writes:
Wanna hear something funny? I haven't even had time to TRY the tips yet... :)
Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL hcp. +49.67
Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Quoted text (9 lines)
>Gee thanks Guys. > >I really didn't know how it would be received at the time and it >was/is very rough, being "thrown" together in an afternoon. > >I've been really pleased by the response, almost 50 people >have emailed me for the package and I've heard back from >about half a dozen so far who are seeing considerable improvements >in their lap times, PLUS they feel more in control.Thanks for the advice Maxx and teehole. I think Replay Analyser is very
useful, particularly when you hit a total dead-end and can't see, let alone
find any more speed. Normal replays as well, i've found very useful. I
wouldn't have got down under 1:51 at Mexico without watching Doug Arnou's
lap that comes with GPL.
I figured out last night what i've been doing wrong at the Ring. I've just
been giving the course too much respect and not being positive enough. I
messed up a hot-lap at turn one, which is pretty damn frustrating, drove the
rest of the lap in a very angry attacking stance, and my time turned out to
be 8:48 which included 21 seconds worth of spins. So if I can drive the
same positive way without the spins I should be around 8:30.
Basically I haven't been using anything like enough throttle. Also the
more positive approach improves my concentration.
I can see the reason behind using the F10 view and higher cockpit cams to
see more of the track, and get more confidence where the track goes. I like
to watch my Ring replays from the roll-bar view, which acheives the same
thing. I don't know about actually *driving* from a different view though,
I think I'm too much of a purist for that, but watching replays from those
views will hopefully have the same effect.
Most of these techniques are in the 'fine-tuning' category, my real problems
are concentration over such a long lap, which wearing headphones seems to
help with, and consistency. Anyway, i'll post back if my new aggressive
approach gets any results.
Thanks again for the continued help.
"Maxx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> Funny you should say that ...
>
> I've been tidying up the GPLEGS package for inclusion on a couple<snip>
Quoted text (7 lines)
> recommendation. > > You may need revised car files but these, along with then URLS to get > them, are all listed. > > End >In article <[email hidden]>, Maxx
<[email hidden]> writes:
Hehe...sorry to worry you, Malcolm... :)
Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL hcp. +49.67
Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Quoted text (8 lines)
>On 11 Oct 2000 23:35:48 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: > >Eldred, > >Oh, thank god for that! I'd hate to think you'd tried them and still >hadn't gotten off that 49.67 :-) > >Make time and you'll save time .. honest.Just did a 8:32.41 as well. Would you believe that? 174 turns and only 4
hundredths slower.
Getting any more speed is proving really difficult. The 8:32.37 contained
about 3 second worth of offs, but when I manage a clean lap, which the
8:32.41 was, it's no faster. I also did another lap, which felt incredibly
fast, by it was only 8:35. Very strange. There's obviously a fine line
between controlled agression and just being ragged.
I can post the replays on my webpage if anyone wants to enjoy them.
Simon,
I'd like to see your replays. I have the same PB less a 10th so
may not come up with anything earth-shattering, but I bet there
are areas where we gain/lose on each other, that we might
both learn from.
Maxx
On Thu, 12 Oct 2000 02:42:57 GMT, "Simon Brown"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
Quoted text (11 lines)
>Just did a 8:32.41 as well. Would you believe that? 174 turns and only 4 >hundredths slower. > >Getting any more speed is proving really difficult. The 8:32.37 contained >about 3 second worth of offs, but when I manage a clean lap, which the >8:32.41 was, it's no faster. I also did another lap, which felt incredibly >fast, by it was only 8:35. Very strange. There's obviously a fine line >between controlled agression and just being ragged. > >I can post the replays on my webpage if anyone wants to enjoy them. >On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 11:18:30 GMT, "Simon Brown"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
Simon,
> I don't know about actually *driving* from a different view though,
>I think I'm too much of a purist for that, but watching replays from those
>views will hopefully have the same effect.
No, the thing you don't get by watching yours or others replays is
that you don't see the direct effect of your controller inputs on the
"attitude" of the car.
I think it's a worthwhile exercise for this purpose but as I said, not
for geneal hotlapping.
It is quite hard to pick up visually what the back end of the car
is doing and when we cover things like lift-off oversteer, trail-
braking, momentun induced v. power-induced understeer/
oversteer etc. etc. I think this method is invaluable. It depends
I suppose how you look at it, as driver training, it's there and
why not use it but once you've grasped what is happening
to the car and the effect these techniques have on it, then
F10 to the cockpit view. You should find that just knowing
what is happening means you can implement the technique
more effectivly.
Maxx
On 11 Oct 2000 23:35:48 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:
Eldred,
Oh, thank god for that! I'd hate to think you'd tried them and still
hadn't gotten off that 49.67 :-)
Make time and you'll save time .. honest.
Maxx
>
>Wanna hear something funny? I haven't even had time to TRY the tips yet... :)
>
>Eldred
[email hidden] (Simon Brown) wrote:
> I also did another lap, which felt incredibly
> fast, by it was only 8:35. Very strange.
That happens all the time at the Ring, get used to it! :-) Remember with
all those corners you can be +/- 5s *easily* without realising it at all.
In my case it's more like +/-20s, but if I had a pound for every time I
*thought* I'd just done a new pb I'd be, er... marginally richer.
Andrew McP
Ok, i've uploaded the 8:32.41 to
http://www.sbdev.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ring.zip although of course, being the
Ring, it's 800k even when zipped-up.
I just watched the lap again myself, and while it's a decent lap, I can see
many things I'm doing wrong. My car control in general just isn't quite
good enough to place a car like the Lotus exactly where I want it. There
are loads of corners where my line is poor and I end up in the wrong spot.
I'm tempted to give the Cooper a try. I know it won't get me a PB, but I
can control it alot more precisely and maybe gain a little more confidence
and consistency.
If you do take a look, I have now figured out a braking point for turn one
:) And you may notice the odd bit of speed-shifting under pressure.
"Maxx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (9 lines)
> > Simon, > > I'd like to see your replays. I have the same PB less a 10th so > may not come up with anything earth-shattering, but I bet there > are areas where we gain/lose on each other, that we might > both learn from. > > MaxxOk, you've convinced me. I'll try a few laps at the Ring in F10 view.
"Maxx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 11:18:30 GMT, "Simon Brown"
> <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
> Simon,
>
> No, the thing you don't get by watching yours or others replays is<snip>
> more effectivly.
>
> Maxx
>
Simon,
I'm sure you'll gain a little insight from it but my last post was
really more about using the F10 view whilst trying new techniques
or playing around with trail-braking, seeing how the car reacts
through off-camber/inclined corner etc.
It is useful to get a bit more insight into the correct line as you
can often see the exit point (which may be hidden in cockpit
view).
I think you may find the ring a bit of a task in f10 view and I'd
be surprised if you hold it on the road for a full lap. The
disadvantage of it, is that you feel divorced from the car
itself, I think you need to be very much in sych with the car
for the ring.
Interested to hear how you get on though.
Sorry if my coments seem contradictory, it's difficult to be
precice without a 100+ line posting, hopefully you get my
drift though.
Maxx
BTW, as I said in an earlier post, I don't consider a PB
achieved using the F10 view to be a valid PB (controversial ?
.. I don't think so). If you can't beat or match it with cockpit
view you can always restore your player.ini from GPLRank
or better still, back it up yourself first and restore.
There are many drivers I known that are quicker in F10/chase
view (not just in GPL). The main reason for this is that they
haven't got the line sorted yet in cockpit view, which testifies
to the importance of line (i.e. you don't/can't brake later in
F10 view.
On Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:14:47 GMT, "Simon Brown"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
Quoted text (16 lines)
>Ok, you've convinced me. I'll try a few laps at the Ring in F10 view. > >"Maxx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 11:18:30 GMT, "Simon Brown" >> <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >> Simon, >> >> No, the thing you don't get by watching yours or others replays is ><snip> >> more effectivly. >> >> Maxx >> >(Sorry if this message appears on the ng twice, my news-server is playing up
i think.)
Ok, i've uploaded the 8:32.41 to
http://www.sbdev.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ring.zip although of course, being the
Ring, it's 800k even when zipped-up.
I just watched the lap again myself, and while it's a decent lap, I can see
many things I'm doing wrong. My car control in general just isn't quite
good enough to place a car like the Lotus exactly where I want it. There
are loads of corners where my line is poor and I end up in the wrong spot.
I'm tempted to give the Cooper a try. I know it won't get me a PB, but I
can control it alot more precisely and maybe gain a little more confidence
and consistency.
If you do take a look, I have now figured out a braking point for turn one
:) And you may notice the odd bit of speed-shifting under pressure.
"Maxx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
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> > Simon, > > I'd like to see your replays. I have the same PB less a 10th so > may not come up with anything earth-shattering, but I bet there > are areas where we gain/lose on each other, that we might > both learn from. > > MaxxOn Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:17:33 GMT, "Simon Brown"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
Simon,
I've watched the lap and have comments which I will email you. It's
up to you if you want to repost them here for others to see (there
not that bad! .. honest), at least you have the choice.
Maxx
Quoted text (14 lines)
>Ok, i've uploaded the 8:32.41 to >http://www.sbdev.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ring.zip although of course, being the >Ring, it's 800k even when zipped-up. > >I just watched the lap again myself, and while it's a decent lap, I can see >many things I'm doing wrong. My car control in general just isn't quite >good enough to place a car like the Lotus exactly where I want it. There >are loads of corners where my line is poor and I end up in the wrong spot. >I'm tempted to give the Cooper a try. I know it won't get me a PB, but I >can control it alot more precisely and maybe gain a little more confidence >and consistency. > >If you do take a look, I have now figured out a braking point for turn one >:) And you may notice the odd bit of speed-shifting under pressure.Maxx,
No worries, your comment were very fair. Also if you want to use any of
this thread or our e-mails in GPLEGS that's not a problem :)
Maxx's reply regarding my Nurburgring lap was -
"Simon,
Thanks for offering your replay for scrutiny. I didn't
study it in detail although I noticed a number of places
you could gain time, I really want to comment on the
general drive and on general points.
Bear in mind I'm no Ringmeister having only got within
1/10th of your PB but I found out today looking back at
replays that ALL my F1 PBs have had multiple incident,
my 8:32 had a couple of grassy moments and a half spin.
Also, bear in mond that I appreciate the ring is difficult
and requires so much concentration on so many diffferent
things that it's hard to "do what you know you should do"
all the time - more later.
Now you did ask for comment Simon so please forgive me
if I come over as overly critical - I'm just trying to
help.
It was aggresive! now I now I said you needed to be so,
but I had something different in mind. My reference to this
was in attacking the corners adn not being afraid to go
for it when the opportunity allows (I've seen other replays
where the guy gets so used to tip-toing through the twisty
bits that he is hesitant on the straights also.
BRAKES
Anyway, you were far too aggresive with the brakes, not
sure if you have any resistance under your pedal or not but if
so you should perhaps firm it up, maybe pad it a little.
If not then I know it's damn difficult to ease on and just
apply that 50-80% that is required for most of the ring.
What is happening is that you are unsettling the car
approaching the corners, not only is the harsh brake but
also the whiplash effect when you come off the brake.
You tend to come off the brake well before the corner, and
some time have to get back on the gas for a moment then you
hard brake again. I know it's difficult to remember all
the braking points (I can't) but if you were modulating the
brake you could ease off or apply a little more to compensate
for this.
GAS
Same for the gas, you often need to modulate the gas, such
that a) you don't get wheelspin and b) you don't unsettle
the car, when you hit the gas, the back squats, front end
rise, which means you immediately lose 50% of the grip you
had at the front and gain 50% more at the back. If you have
any type of steering movement going on, you'll just lose
the bite and it won't go where you want it.
The suspension is run very soft at the ring (everyones is, and
I'm sure your is) so it's much easier to unsettle the car and
hence much more important to be as smooth with gas + brake as
you can.
In order to smooth out these forces, you often want to change
up early (called short-shifting). i.e. the Ferrari in my replay
revs to 10k+, I will change-up very often at 8k or so, to iron
out those spikes. Once you are settled and on a straight then you
can c/up as normal.
I also, often use a higher gear than would seem optimum (i.e. I
rarely if ever use 1st).
Hopefully you will spot the differences when you look at the
replay I've sent you.
LINE
We can all improve our line by practice but there are a number
of places on the tracks where you unduly square off the corner.
Sometimes it could be accidental but others seem intended. I
still do the same occasionaly because I am concentrating so hard
on other things.
Impossible to discuss every occurance but I'm sure you'll notice
the differences when you look at my replay. You could run them
both through RA but I don't think you need to, to spot them.
MY REPLAY
Well, I looked at my best lap and a) it had lots of moments and
b) wasn't very good at getting across what I want to say. I did
it some time ago, before GPLEGS I think.
I then looked at a couple of 8:40 laps, they were worse. I was
sure that I could do a better example plus I was hopeful it would
be a new PB.
I tried about 3-4 runs of 2 laps in total, 2nd run had 2 or 3 errors
but was a better example, and was a 8:36, problem was, pressed Esc
once to many and lost the replay. So I thought, no probs, i'm in the
groove now and tries again, 3rd time just tooo many errors, plus got
flustered and lost concentration as I usually do.
My last attempt, which I have sent you was an 8:35, ones spin and
a good 2 or 3 visible errors, plus, as usual went off the boil a
bit after the spin/errors, probably got a little too aggresive as
well. But I think it will get my point across.
I used the Ferrari as thats what I've mainly used there, but it
is no better or worse than the Lotus. I also used a basic setup
so as not to complicate things.
I was careful not to use any "advanced" techniques. I am still
not very proficient with them, nor generally use them unless I
am specifically working on them. There may be the odd bit of trail
braking (which I and you will have to do here, to go MUCH quicker)
plus maybe a corner or two of wheel braking (simple- just give
it full lock in a slow bend to give you a little bit of extra
braking), neither of these would have save me more than a few 10ths
at best.
If I'd made no errors it would have been in the 8:2x's without
doing anything fancy I think.
Theres always a temptation to go for a new PB at the ring, as it
takes sooo long to get to do a lap. But I would suggest, if you
have the time and patience, to approach it as trying to do a
smooth lap of the ring.
I was doing that but noticed a change in my manner once I though a
new PB was on the cards, I started to over-drive, brake more
aggressively, I KNOW ITS WRONG bit it feels like it's what you
must do .. bloody ring!!
SUMMARY
I think to be blunt, using the same style as in your replay you
will never improve that much at the ring. Better lines alone would
not have save you more than say 5secs. If you adopt better lines
with better control and smoother, you will gain many more seconds.
You can obviously control the car at speed but by braking and
accelerating in the manner that you are you are giving yourself too
much work to do in controlling that instability, rather than picking
the ideal lines .. smoothing out the ... etc... etc... you've heard
if all before I know.
Hope the advice is useful and that you can apply it and it works
for you.
I've also attached the Ferrari setup in case you want to try it but
as I said, it's nothing special.
Regards
Maxx"
Hi guys,
Where can the GPLEGS files be downloaded from?? Don't seem to be on the
binaries ng and I haven't seen a link to them posted here.
Would appreciate the info or if you send them to me Maxx I would be very
appreciative.
PH
"Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:pDsF5.1239$[email hidden]...
> Maxx,
>
> No worries, your comment were very fair. Also if you want to use any of
> this thread or our e-mails in GPLEGS that's not a problem :)
