Re: DTR Sprint Cars Demo Thoughts

Graphics look pretty good, the car models are very nice other than ridiculous looking tires. More polygons please. Sound is only OK as the cars simply don't sound raucous enough. Aside from top-fuel dragster and F-16's, sprint cars are about the most impressive sounding things on earth, however in the demo seem too polite. Not a big deal as long as they can be changed out in the full version. And the announcer must go. Eldora looks pretty good, I've been there quite a few times. The banking seems a bit low in the demo, I've walked the track and it seems much steeper in person. (OT If you live within 4-5 hours of Eldora you must get there for an Outlaws or All-Stars race. There is no racing on earth more exciting to see in person that a winged sprint car race. I've seen Cart, F-1, NASCAR, Trans-Am, ASA and just about everything else in person and nothing can compare. Especially at Eldora) The AI seems pretty good. The computer opponents are very aggressive, but this doesn't seem out of place here. The physics however, don't seem impressive to me at all. The biggest problem is that it seems that lateral chassis movement isn't modeled. A real sprint car should lean heavily towards the left in the turns due to the air pushing on the side panels of the wing. In the sim, if you use the external view you will see that the car remains completely vertical unless you hit something. The car also seems far too easy to drive. None of the on the edge feel you get from GPL. Flat out all the way around either track is no problem, although not the fast way around. Just pich it further sideways to scrub off speed and you're fine. Also, it appears the the cushion isn't modeled although that may be just because the races are so short. Up against the wall is almost always the fast way around the track at Eldora unless it's extremely dry, yet even at full wet the fast way in the sim appears to be down low. Can't really comment on Terra Haute as I've never been there. After all that I still think it's a fun sim. Multiplayer should be a blast. It remains to be seen how different the full release will be from the demo of course. I don't mean to sound too negative, I'm probably just spoiled by GPL. I'll definately be buying a copy, and hoping that after a patch or two this thing will be perfect. Cheers, TT

First off, for those of you who downloaded the demo from the first link given on this newsgroup, the Full Throttle site, you'll find that the demo version number is 0.50. Yesterday, Ratbag released version 0.60 of the demo to its members, and today the same version to a wider audience. I tried both versions and couldn't notice any major differences, but you'd be advised to get the latest version. I had no problems with installation and setup. It had no problems recognising my split-axis wheel. The demo comes with two tracks, Eldora and Terra Haute. Startup includes logos and a video. You can cut them short with the ESC key or eliminate them with comand line options. Interface is similar to DTR, no suprises there. You can race as a WOO driver or create a custom driver. Vehicle handling goes from arcade to realistic on a 0 to 100 scale, as does AI difficulty. You can race against as many as 15 AI opponents. Track wetness is still there on a scale from 0 (dry) to 100 (wet). You can set the damage mode as in DTR. You can have a reverse mode, but there are no manual gears. During a race you can move the wing forwards or backwards, and there's a little graphic on the side of the screen showing you this. My first criticism of the demo is the restriction of the number of laps. You can only drive a 5 lap race in the demo. This is ridiculous, particularly for the short tracks which exist in sprint car racing. A race is over less than 75 seconds. This doesn't give me a chance to fully evaluate the physics model, especially the effects of tire wear, or cumulative damage, or even the position of the wing. The DTR demo allowed you to race up to 100 laps with 3 tracks. Why the change of heart? The physics model doesn't appear to contain any glaring faults. The car can roll after a collision, but I've yet to make it do those spectacular multi-roll accidents they love showing on television. But show me a car game which properly simulates complex collisions. Still, maybe this *should* be taken as a criticism of the physics model. I don't know. I haven't tried it online, so obviously I won't comment on that. Graphics are gorgeous. With 15 cars I get frame rate slowdown, but my system is quite slow. With 8 cars things are flying. There's a track announcer. You can turn him off. Thank God for that. Sound is pretty good, but I have lame sound hardware so I wouldn't conclude too much from that. Errm, that's about it. I would give it a thumbs up, but for the miserly laps restriction. I wonder if this game will be distributed in Australia? DTR wasn't, so I can't say I'm too hopeful. The Ratbag game I'm really looking forward to is Leadfoot, but who knows when or if that will see the light of day? Meanwhile, I'll continue to play Grand Prix Legends and hope that someone is able to crack the DTR-Sprints demo so that you can race more than 5 measly laps. Bendito;

On Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:00:18 +1000, "Bendito" <[email hidden]> wrote: >You can race as a WOO driver or create a custom >driver. In the demo I downloaded it would not allow you to drive as a WOO driver, not that it matters for purposes of evaluating the game. >The physics model doesn't appear to contain any glaring faults. The car can >roll after a collision, but I've yet to make it do those spectacular >multi-roll accidents they love showing on television. I got into one of those. I must have barrel rolled at least 12 times. It was quite dizzying. >Graphics are gorgeous. Should be even nicer without the JPGing done in the demo. > There's a track announcer. You >can turn him off. Thank God for that. Truly. ~daxe

On a PIII 600 I do not see any slowdowns with the full 15 car field. Oh, and how sweet it is. It has the great Ratbag look to it. Muted hues and a lot of dirt not to mention some of the most spectacular (yet small) tracks and cars around. The in car view is great and even vibrates a little (which can be disabled). I have seen those spectacular barrel rolls (usually performed by me) like on TV. One time I must have rolled the car over a dozen times before it came to a rest - as it was rolling I popped out of the cockpit for an overhead view (as replay is disabled in demo) and must say it looked good. Landed with a bent wheel and damaged wing. I am still trying to sort out what the black flags mean? I see them a lot. I have also seen quite a few yellows (computer assumes control of all cars, just like the rolling start) but since there is no replay I was unable to go back and check out what caused them. Don't get me wrong....there is a replay button in the demo...however, its disabled just like the extensive looking garage. I am using the first demo release (.5?) and mine does not let me play with an outlaw drivers (16 of them) - it lets me look through them, like you can flip through the garage but says not available in demo. The physics seem pretty good. I use simulation mode. These cars are a motha to drive if your not used to dirt tracks and a lot of real wheel power....I didn't have DTR and find the AI on anything over 50% crushes me. The track wet/dryness is modeled very nicely and you can see and tell the difference on each. I am still needing to test the online play (ahhh....if its anything like Powerslide it should rock) but want to get my skills up to par first. One thing Im not sure about is the collision feel...I have not watched these cars race or ever raced one so I can't say if it is correct or not, but if you so much as tap another car you will get pretty loose and out of control. They seem much lighter than Powerslide cars that could really take a thug, but it does seem more accurate. I imagine these cars are hard to keep on the ground and often times you will hit a car and your nose will lift and by the time you have control again you are gliding towards the wall. Understand why I haven't tried online racing yet :) There is a nice left / right head swivel you can make to look what is next to you but by the time you are looking straight again your headed the wrong direction. Everything seems so close and tight the racing really is challenging for such small tracks. You spend a lot of time looking in your mirror or hoping nobody is along side of you. This game looks good and I can say for $20 it should be a part of any race fans collection. Bendito <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8rguib$fv4$[email hidden]... > First off, for those of you who downloaded the demo from the first link > given on this newsgroup, the Full Throttle site, you'll find that the demo > version number is 0.50. Yesterday, Ratbag released version 0.60 of thedemo > to its members, and today the same version to a wider audience. I triedboth > versions and couldn't notice any major differences, but you'd be advisedto > get the latest version. > > I had no problems with installation and setup. It had no problems > recognising my split-axis wheel. The demo comes with two tracks, Eldoraand > Terra Haute. Startup includes logos and a video. You can cut them shortwith > the ESC key or eliminate them with comand line options. Interface issimilar > to DTR, no suprises there. You can race as a WOO driver or create a custom > driver. > > Vehicle handling goes from arcade to realistic on a 0 to 100 scale, asdoes > AI difficulty. You can race against as many as 15 AI opponents. Track > wetness is still there on a scale from 0 (dry) to 100 (wet). You can setthe > damage mode as in DTR. You can have a reverse mode, but there are nomanual > gears. During a race you can move the wing forwards or backwards, and > there's a little graphic on the side of the screen showing you this. > > My first criticism of the demo is the restriction of the number of laps.You > can only drive a 5 lap race in the demo. This is ridiculous, particularly > for the short tracks which exist in sprint car racing. A race is over less > than 75 seconds. This doesn't give me a chance to fully evaluate thephysics > model, especially the effects of tire wear, or cumulative damage, or even > the position of the wing. The DTR demo allowed you to race up to 100 laps > with 3 tracks. Why the change of heart? > > The physics model doesn't appear to contain any glaring faults. The carcan > roll after a collision, but I've yet to make it do those spectacular > multi-roll accidents they love showing on television. But show me a cargame > which properly simulates complex collisions. Still, maybe this *should* be > taken as a criticism of the physics model. I don't know. I haven't triedit > online, so obviously I won't comment on that. > > Graphics are gorgeous. With 15 cars I get frame rate slowdown, but mysystem > is quite slow. With 8 cars things are flying. There's a track announcer.You > can turn him off. Thank God for that. Sound is pretty good, but I havelame > sound hardware so I wouldn't conclude too much from that. Errm, that'sabout > it. I would give it a thumbs up, but for the miserly laps restriction. > > I wonder if this game will be distributed in Australia? DTR wasn't, so I > can't say I'm too hopeful. The Ratbag game I'm really looking forward tois > Leadfoot, but who knows when or if that will see the light of day? > Meanwhile, I'll continue to play Grand Prix Legends and hope that someoneis > able to crack the DTR-Sprints demo so that you can race more than 5 measly > laps. > > Bendito; > >

daxe wrote in message ... >>The physics model doesn't appear to contain any glaring faults. The carcan >>roll after a collision, but I've yet to make it do those spectacular >>multi-roll accidents they love showing on television. > >I got into one of those. I must have barrel rolled at least 12 times. >It was quite dizzying. Ha! Just after writing the above I got into quite a few multi-rolls. Dizzy is an understatement! Bendito;

I think the steering lock is set to an abnormally high amount so you can get out of a slide easier. At least it was in DTR. For (more) realistic driving, just turn down the steering lock? Jason. Gregor Veble wrote:

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> They are pretty fun, but on the relaxed realism side. The worst aspect > seems to be the amount of steering response even up to the car being 90 > degrees sideways. You can still steer the car with the steering wheel > when the tires are well past their optimum grip attitude. Turning into > the skid will always keep the car in place unless too much throttle is > applied, no matter how much sideways you go. > > Still, the few short minutes I was able to spend with the demo, this > really seems to be a fun, fun sim. > > -Gregor

-- Jason Monds http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (N3, GPL, Fun Run Sims) http://www.racersdomain.com - Race hosting. (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

I was amazed at how quickly the demo uncompressed. I mean it was so fast, truly amazing.... truly... Later, Brian btgoss "Thomas Tlusty" <tetjNO/[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8rjbhk$2dk$[email hidden]... > Graphics look pretty good, the car models are very nice other than > ridiculous looking tires. More polygons please. Sound is only OK as thecars > simply don't sound raucous enough. Aside from top-fuel dragster andF-16's, > sprint cars are about the most impressive sounding things on earth,however > in the demo seem too polite. Not a big deal as long as they can be changed > out in the full version. And the announcer must go. > Eldora looks pretty good, I've been there quite a few times. The banking > seems a bit low in the demo, I've walked the track and it seems muchsteeper > in person. (OT If you live within 4-5 hours of Eldora you must get there > for an Outlaws or All-Stars race. There is no racing on earth moreexciting > to see in person that a winged sprint car race. I've seen Cart, F-1,NASCAR, > Trans-Am, ASA and just about everything else in person and nothing can > compare. Especially at Eldora) > The AI seems pretty good. The computer opponents are very aggressive, but > this doesn't seem out of place here. > The physics however, don't seem impressive to me at all. The biggestproblem > is that it seems that lateral chassis movement isn't modeled. A realsprint > car should lean heavily towards the left in the turns due to the airpushing > on the side panels of the wing. In the sim, if you use the external viewyou > will see that the car remains completely vertical unless you hitsomething. > The car also seems far too easy to drive. None of the on the edge feel you > get from GPL. Flat out all the way around either track is no problem, > although not the fast way around. Just pich it further sideways to scruboff > speed and you're fine. Also, it appears the the cushion isn't modeled > although that may be just because the races are so short. Up against the > wall is almost always the fast way around the track at Eldora unless it's > extremely dry, yet even at full wet the fast way in the sim appears to be > down low. Can't really comment on Terra Haute as I've never been there. > After all that I still think it's a fun sim. Multiplayer should be ablast. > It remains to be seen how different the full release will be from the demo > of course. I don't mean to sound too negative, I'm probably just spoiledby > GPL. I'll definately be buying a copy, and hoping that after a patch ortwo

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> this thing will be perfect. > Cheers, > TT > > > > > > >

Thomas Tlusty wrote:

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> > The physics however, don't seem impressive to me at all. The biggest problem > is that it seems that lateral chassis movement isn't modeled. A real sprint > car should lean heavily towards the left in the turns due to the air pushing > on the side panels of the wing. In the sim, if you use the external view you > will see that the car remains completely vertical unless you hit something. > The car also seems far too easy to drive. None of the on the edge feel you > get from GPL. Flat out all the way around either track is no problem, > although not the fast way around. Just pich it further sideways to scrub off > speed and you're fine.

Yep, agreed. Physics seem to be about on the Colin McRae Rally level. They are pretty fun, but on the relaxed realism side. The worst aspect seems to be the amount of steering response even up to the car being 90 degrees sideways. You can still steer the car with the steering wheel when the tires are well past their optimum grip attitude. Turning into the skid will always keep the car in place unless too much throttle is applied, no matter how much sideways you go. Still, the few short minutes I was able to spend with the demo, this really seems to be a fun, fun sim. -Gregor

Gregor Veble wrote in message <[email hidden]>... >degrees sideways. You can still steer the car with the steering wheel >when the tires are well past their optimum grip attitude. Turning into >the skid will always keep the car in place unless too much throttle is >applied, no matter how much sideways you go. I noticed this, too, but I wonder about dirt track racing, particularly sprint cars, and how different it is from racing on asphalt. That's all, I just wonder. :) Bendito;

Jason Monds wrote:

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> > I think the steering lock is set to an abnormally high amount so you can get out > of a slide easier. At least it was in DTR. For (more) realistic driving, just > turn down the steering lock? > > Jason. >

Might be, but since the steering works to driving almost perpendicularly to the direction of travel I still have some reservations. -Gregor

I just wonder if the people that made the demo actually thought nobody would buy the full version when it's released, if they had let you go 10-15 laps on the demo. What a drag... The other thing that would make this game more enjoyable, is if the adjustments that you make to the car, were even somewhat close to being realistic. If you try to make adjustments, based on 'real' case scenarios, it's a waste of time. If you know something about real cars, it's not applicable to the dtr game cars. For the most part. It would be nice if you could make realistic adjustments, and have the car react accordingly. Instead of running 4 inches of toe in on one rear wheel... or 100# springs on the front, and 5# on the rear for example. There is just something uncomfortable about running reverse stagger, and other weird tunning... hopefully you won't have to on the sprints.. When you are trying to set the DTR cars up, it's just a hit or miss deal, with no actual sense to the adjustments. The 'fast' setups for those cars, would never get around a real racetrack.

I agree with this complaint. There had been a human racing online when DTR first came out, it's car was set up wacky...like a Hanna Barbara Cartoon.... little tires in the back, and huge honkin' Monster Truck tires in the front, but it was fast.... just hurt my brain racing against that thing... didn't look right... I think Sprints isn't like that...at least I hope Later, Brian btgoss <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8rt581$43d$[email hidden]...

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> > I just wonder if the people that made the demo actually thought > nobody would buy the full version when it's released, if > they had let you go 10-15 laps on the demo. > What a drag... > > The other thing that would make this game more enjoyable, is > if the adjustments that you make to the car, were even somewhat > close to being realistic. > If you try to make adjustments, based on 'real' case scenarios, > it's a waste of time. If you know something about real cars, > it's not applicable to the dtr game cars. For the most part. > > It would be nice if you could make realistic adjustments, and have > the car react accordingly. > Instead of running 4 inches of toe in on one rear wheel... > or 100# springs on the front, and 5# on the rear for example. > There is just something uncomfortable about running reverse > stagger, and other weird tunning... > hopefully you won't have to on the sprints.. > > When you are trying to set the DTR cars up, it's just a hit or > miss deal, with no actual sense to the adjustments. > The 'fast' setups for those cars, would never get around a real racetrack. > >