OT: CHAMBER AND TOE IN

Hi I understand how chamber helps with the corners and that it tends to slow you down in the straight line, I could not see how toe in helps ??? could anyone give me a brief explaination how to toe gives you any advantage ?? I guess it also reduce your straight line speed as well..

Leong, it's "camber"....no "h". -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- * Leong <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Hi > > I understand how chamber helps

The front tires are turning on different arcs really, I would say one of the two dougs could explain this better but I willhave a go at it. the inside tire needs to turn a bit tighter then the outside tire due to the spacing between tires. Most cars acomplish with something called ackerman in the steering, but also most cars do not have anough ackerman so adding Toe Out helps the car turn in better, but does cause tires scrub when going in a straight line. if you can adjust the ackerman properly, which it the location of the out tie rods to the spindle turning center(?) and I think the center point of the rear end(?) you can move ackerman to a point where you actaully make the inside tire turn more then the outside tire and accomplish the same thing that toe out gives you without having the tire scrub problem in a straight line. I am most likely scrweing this explaination up, but I set the ackerman on my Solo ll car over 4 years ago and had some help when I did it. The car turns in great and I run zero front toe out, compared to running almost a 1/4 inch of toe out before. Again on of the two Dougs Milliken or Arano could explain this better then I am. Dave * Leong <[email hidden]> wrote in article <[email hidden]>...

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> Hi > > I understand how chamber helps with the corners and > that it tends to slow you down in the straight line, > I could not see how toe in helps ??? > > > could anyone give me a brief explaination how to toe gives > you any advantage ?? > I guess it also reduce your straight line speed as well.. > > > >

* Leong <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Hi > > I understand how chamber helps with the corners and > that it tends to slow you down in the straight line, > I could not see how toe in helps ??? > >

Camber doesn't slow you down in the straight, it just helps get more rubber on the track in a corner. O to slightly negative is really all you'll ever need. Toe can slow you down on straight, toe is the amount the tyres face towards or away from each other when viewed at from an above angle. Many F1 teams face them towards each other and there must be an advantage but I don't quite get it. Neutral is best as it gives fair turn in, even tyre wear and doesn't slow you on straight, however toe out helps with turn ins giving you more of a turn (helps in the wet). In karts hat I drive toe in isn't something you want to be using but I guess it could be used as a way of stabilising the front end, a lot of F1 teams use this, it must work.

The two posts before this one have the answers pretty dead on about toe and camber...camber is used to make sure the tire stays flat when cornering...It does not affect top speed, but it does affect braking and the ability to get the power to the ground when accelerating. JB "* Leong" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Hi > > I understand how chamber helps with the corners and > that it tends to slow you down in the straight line, > I could not see how toe in helps ??? > > > could anyone give me a brief explaination how to toe gives > you any advantage ?? > I guess it also reduce your straight line speed as well.. > > >

Here is a good article on caster, camber, and toe: http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html My experience with toe: During practice at Langley Speedway, I went off the track and back on in a spin. As I come back on the track (going backwards), the front hit the lip of the track hard knocking by right side toe in from 1/8" to almost a full inch (bent spindle). The front car became a real handfull--feeling like it was floating on its own, I stuggled to keep the car stable on straights, and lap times suffered over 3 seconds. Granted, 1" is extreme, but it was a good lesson to me on the importance setting toe and it's affects Dave M On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 13:18:43 +0800, "* Leong" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Hi > >I understand how chamber helps with the corners and >that it tends to slow you down in the straight line, >I could not see how toe in helps ??? > > >could anyone give me a brief explaination how to toe gives >you any advantage ?? >I guess it also reduce your straight line speed as well.. > >

Bruce Kennewell <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:39e773c8$[email hidden]...

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> (snipped) > > Many F1 teams > > face them towards each other and there must be an advantage but I don't > > quite get it. > (unsnpped) > > As do all road cars.

Is there a good reason for this do you know? It slows you down on straight and gives inferior turn in... I can only imagine that it might stabilise the car since it's not as loose but other than that I have no idea.

(snipped) > Many F1 teams > face them towards each other and there must be an advantage but I don't > quite get it.(unsnpped) As do all road cars. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- 9Wright7 <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8s7ksc$4hl$[email hidden]... >

hEY THANKS that's a very good write up with the correct pictures to back up what's being said LegendNo6 <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Here is a good article on caster, camber, and toe: > > http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html > > My experience with toe: > During practice at Langley Speedway, I went off the track and back on > in a spin. As I come back on the track (going backwards), the front > hit the lip of the track hard knocking by right side toe in from 1/8" > to almost a full inch (bent spindle). The front car became a real > handfull--feeling like it was floating on its own, I stuggled to keep > the car stable on straights, and lap times suffered over 3 seconds. > Granted, 1" is extreme, but it was a good lesson to me on the > importance setting toe and it's affects > > Dave M > > On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 13:18:43 +0800, "* Leong" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Hi > > > >I understand how chamber helps with the corners and > >that it tends to slow you down in the straight line, > >I could not see how toe in helps ??? > > > > > >could anyone give me a brief explaination how to toe gives > >you any advantage ?? > >I guess it also reduce your straight line speed as well.. > > > > >

I think it is to do with perceived "safety". Probably for the same reason that an awful lot of production cars are engineered to give default understeer. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- 9Wright7 <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8s7ujj$548$[email hidden]... > > Bruce Kennewell <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:39e773c8$[email hidden]... > > (snipped) > > > Many F1 teams > > > face them towards each other and there must be an advantage but I don't > > > quite get it. > > (unsnpped) > > > > As do all road cars. > > Is there a good reason for this do you know? > It slows you down on straight and gives inferior turn in... I can only > imagine that it might stabilise the car since it's not as loose but other > than that I have no idea. > >