Re: Nascar Heat is dead

I agree that nascar heat is a joke Fenech <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ZspJ5.21382$[email hidden]... > Seeing that this post got deleted from the Nascar Heat official boardsince > Hasbro will not post anything with the truth, I will post it here. > Nascar Heat is a dead game. There is still no second patch to fix all > the AI problems, yellow flag problems etc. By the time it comes out, the > season will be over. Nascar sims will be put away till next year and in > February Nascar 4 will be out. You know Papy is looking at all the > complaints of Nascar Heat and will have every one of them corrected intheir

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> game. > Although it is better than EA sports Nascar games, Heat just has too > many problems. > Hasbro can just chalk it up as a lose along with the 85 million Hasbro > Interactive lost last year. > The officail Nascar Heat board is a joke. anything you post saying > anything negative about the game, just gets deleted. Try it. They don't > want anyone to know the truth over there. > > Matt > > >

PLONK "Fenech" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ZspJ5.21382$[email hidden]... > Seeing that this post got deleted from the Nascar Heat official boardsince > Hasbro will not post anything with the truth, I will post it here.

So true... It's almost Winter here in Ohio... It will soon be time for me to put away "Nascar Heat" and all other racing games for another season. Yep, once November arrives, I'm relegated to playing such Winter time classics as "Ice Dancing 2000" from EASports (Does anyone know when 2001 will be released?). Of course, once Hasbro releases "Zambonie Heat" (I hope the 2nd intermission bug is fixed) or Papyrus releases their much anticipated BSL (Bobsled Legends) I will not be playing Ice Dancing much! :o) - Patrick In article <ZspJ5.21382$[email hidden]>, "Fenech" <[email hidden]> wrote: > Seeing that this post got deleted from the Nascar Heat officialboard since > Hasbro will not post anything with the truth, I will post it here. > Nascar Heat is a dead game. There is still no second patch tofix all > the AI problems, yellow flag problems etc. By the time it comes out,the > season will be over. Nascar sims will be put away till next year andin > February Nascar 4 will be out. You know Papy is looking at all the > complaints of Nascar Heat and will have every one of them correctedin their > game. > Although it is better than EA sports Nascar games, Heat just hastoo > many problems. > Hasbro can just chalk it up as a lose along with the 85 millionHasbro > Interactive lost last year. > The officail Nascar Heat board is a joke. anything you postsaying > anything negative about the game, just gets deleted. Try it. Theydon't > want anyone to know the truth over there. > > Matt > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Seeing that this post got deleted from the Nascar Heat official board since Hasbro will not post anything with the truth, I will post it here. Nascar Heat is a dead game. There is still no second patch to fix all the AI problems, yellow flag problems etc. By the time it comes out, the season will be over. Nascar sims will be put away till next year and in February Nascar 4 will be out. You know Papy is looking at all the complaints of Nascar Heat and will have every one of them corrected in their game. Although it is better than EA sports Nascar games, Heat just has too many problems. Hasbro can just chalk it up as a lose along with the 85 million Hasbro Interactive lost last year. The officail Nascar Heat board is a joke. anything you post saying anything negative about the game, just gets deleted. Try it. They don't want anyone to know the truth over there. Matt

On Wed, 25 Oct 2000 00:05:13 GMT, "Fenech" <[email hidden]> wrote: > Seeing that this post got deleted from the Nascar Heat official board since >Hasbro will not post anything with the truth, I will post it here. > Nascar Heat is a dead game. Since it is not dead as far as I am concerned, your concept of "truth" seems kind of gratuitous. >There is still no second patch to fix all >the AI problems, yellow flag problems etc. By the time it comes out, the >season will be over. Nascar sims will be put away till next year I don't put away or take out sims based on the schedule of the actual racing series. > and in >February Nascar 4 will be out. You know Papy is looking at all the >complaints of Nascar Heat and will have every one of them corrected in their >game. I'm looking forward to N4 as much as the next guy and I will make judgements about it after I buy it. Do you think the impending release of N4 has any real affect on the sales of NH? > Although it is better than EA sports Nascar games, Heat just has too >many problems. I don't have any problems with it. Another global statement shot to hell. > Hasbro can just chalk it up as a lose along with the 85 million Hasbro >Interactive lost last year. Do you honestly think anyone outside this newsgroup really cares if a patch has come out to correct problems they can't even perceive? The lack of patching to satisfy some hardcore simmers has zero appreciable impact on the overall sales of the game. > The officail Nascar Heat board is a joke. anything you post saying >anything negative about the game, just gets deleted. Try it. They don't >want anyone to know the truth over there. we bow to you, oh secret keeper of the "truth". Have you thought of starting your own religion? ~daxe

In article <ZspJ5.21382$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > Nascar Heat is a dead game. There is still no second patch to fix all > the AI problems, yellow flag problems etc. By the time it comes out, the > season will be over. Nascar sims will be put away till next year and in > February Nascar 4 will be out. You know Papy is looking at all the > complaints of Nascar Heat and will have every one of them corrected in their > game. Does that mean I'm not allowed to enjoy it anymore? Cheers, Rod.

Have you played the full version with the patch installed? "Curt Carlson" <[email hidden]> wrote: -<+>-I agree that nascar heat is a joke -<+>- -<+>-Fenech <[email hidden]> wrote in message -<+>-news:ZspJ5.21382$[email hidden]... -<+>-> Seeing that this post got deleted from the Nascar Heat official board -<+>-since -<+>-> Hasbro will not post anything with the truth, I will post it here. -<+>-> Nascar Heat is a dead game. There is still no second patch to fix all -<+>-> the AI problems, yellow flag problems etc. By the time it comes out, the -<+>-> season will be over. Nascar sims will be put away till next year and in -<+>-> February Nascar 4 will be out. You know Papy is looking at all the -<+>-> complaints of Nascar Heat and will have every one of them corrected in -<+>-their -<+>-> game. -<+>-> Although it is better than EA sports Nascar games, Heat just has too -<+>-> many problems. -<+>-> Hasbro can just chalk it up as a lose along with the 85 million Hasbro -<+>-> Interactive lost last year. -<+>-> The officail Nascar Heat board is a joke. anything you post saying -<+>-> anything negative about the game, just gets deleted. Try it. They don't -<+>-> want anyone to know the truth over there. -<+>-> -<+>-> Matt -<+>-> -<+>-> -<+>-> -<+>- Thanks, Mike Alexander ([email hidden]) Torch Red 1986 C4 "ITIS4FN" Pictures available at http://alexander.dyndns.org My 2nd Baby!!! (Note:remove the no_tickets. to send email)

Somewhere on Earth, on Wed, 25 Oct 2000 03:04:33 GMT, daxe <[email hidden]> posted a message: >I'm looking forward to N4 as much as the next guy and I will make >judgements about it after I buy it. Do you think the impending >release of N4 has any real affect on the sales of NH? Depending on the success of Nascar 4, it certainly good do. If N4 turns out to be as good as we all assume it will be, Nascar HEAT will be up against some serious competition. And if N4 turns out to be better than NH, with fewer bugs, it's only common sense that people will buy the superior product - N4.

rrevved wrote: > > In other words.... Put down the pipe. Don't know why, but that one line made me laugh all night... thanks, I needed that! BB

On Wed, 25 Oct 2000 06:17:30 +0100, Maverick and Goose <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Somewhere on Earth, on Wed, 25 Oct 2000 03:04:33 GMT, daxe ><[email hidden]> posted a message: > >>I'm looking forward to N4 as much as the next guy and I will make >>judgements about it after I buy it. Do you think the impending >>release of N4 has any real affect on the sales of NH? > >Depending on the success of Nascar 4, it certainly good do.

What language are you trying to speak? Do you know what "impending" means? It means 'before it happens.' The success of N4 is not too good before it is even released, ya think? I don't think any one of the general public is going to go pick up the NH box in a software store and put it back down because another title they have never even heard of isn't out yet. They certainly won't be swayed by the fact that N4 uses the GPL physics engine. >If N4 turns out to be as good as we all assume it will be, Nascar HEAT >will be up against some serious competition. And if N4 turns out to be >better than NH, with fewer bugs, it's only common sense that people >will buy the superior product - N4. And until N4 is released, I suppose no-one is buying NH? You are falling victim to the 'everyone is a sim freak' line of thinking. What you consider to be bugs are not even noticable to the vast majority of the buyers of NH, so the lack of the same bugs in N4 would have no effect on relative sales. Besides that, if someone is able to make the comparison first hand and decide which is "better", haven't they probably already bought both games anyway? "Better" doesn't mean the same thing to a sim racing fan as it does to the general public. Better means 'easy to drive and win' for the preponderance of buyers. Most people just get pissed if their cars get damaged and they can't continue or win. As I have pointed out about similar things in the past, if every reader of r.a.s. decided not to buy a game that was selling well to the general public, it wouldn't even make a noteworthy blip on the corporate radar screens. Hadcore sim racers' opinions matter to exactly one group of people: other hardcore sim racers. I was in a local hard/software shop a couple weeks ago and watched a woman picking up NASCAR racing games and looking at the boxes with obvious bewilderment. (If she was cute I would have offered to help) She finally bought a discounted copy of NASCAR 1999 after looking at all the current titles. Do you think she bought it because it has fewer bugs, or is "better"? I didn't ask, but I bet she bought it because it was cheaper than the other titles she picked up and had pictures of the cars she recalls her husband or son or whoever watching on TV. THAT woman is a meat 'n' potatoes game buyer. The esoterica contained in the game, the nuances of control or the accuracy of yellow flag conditions or damage mean ZERO to her. Probably likewise to whoever she bought it for. Another typical buyer is the NASCAR fan, with a computer they barely understand, who sees the NH commercials during every race. They will go out and buy it based on that. If EA advertised N2001 more, they would buy that title. If N4 gets more air time, that's the title they will go for. None of this has anything to do with the quality of the game. NH will probably sell just as many copies as it would have anyway, no matter when N4 comes out. Cover art sells more games than nitpicking accuracy. Something new will sell because it's new, not because it's 'better.' Every product has a life cycle in the general public and NH is no exception. I imagine if you saw a sales chart for the title, it would fall off before 6 months regardless of whatever other titles are released, and the software company is probably not the least bit suprised when it happens. NH will be out for this Xmas and NH won't. There's a sales flurry in NHs favor you can add to the total, too. Next Christmas they will both be out and NH will cost less. ~daxe

On Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:39:01 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>(snip) >As I have pointed out >about similar things in the past, if every reader of r.a.s. decided >not to buy a game that was selling well to the general public, it >wouldn't even make a noteworthy blip on the corporate radar screens. >(unsnip) > >You bloody plagiarist, Daxe! >I said this first in RAS...over three years ago! And I patented it and >pended it and copyrighted and trademarked it. Now gimme some money or I'll >sue your arse off!

The check is in the mail, Bruce... (great minds think alike) :o) ~daxe

----- Original Message ----- From: "rrevved" <[email hidden]> > Maybe they require a certain minimum intelligence level > for posters there. LOL, try posting there, rrevved, so we can find out for sure ;) Slot Tweaks & Reviews www.slottweak.com

It's not dead for me. I love NASCAR Heat. It, GPL, GP3, and occasionally I'll take a couple of laps around my favorite short tracks in Papy's NLegends and N3. Despite all it's little problems it's still the definitive NASCAR simulation until N4 appears. Oh, and yes, the official Heat board does "suck". Not only its rigid rules but also the format. I prefer UBB. :) -- ----------------------------------- Morgan Vincent Wooten GPLRank: +15.49 http://members.tripod.com/~morganv/ ----------------------------------- "Fenech" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ZspJ5.21382$[email hidden]... > Seeing that this post got deleted from the Nascar Heat official board since > Hasbro will not post anything with the truth, I will post it here. > Nascar Heat is a dead game. There is still no second patch to fix all > the AI problems, yellow flag problems etc. By the time it comes out, the > season will be over. Nascar sims will be put away till next year and in > February Nascar 4 will be out. You know Papy is looking at all the > complaints of Nascar Heat and will have every one of them corrected in their > game. > Although it is better than EA sports Nascar games, Heat just has too > many problems. > Hasbro can just chalk it up as a lose along with the 85 million Hasbro > Interactive lost last year. > The officail Nascar Heat board is a joke. anything you post saying > anything negative about the game, just gets deleted. Try it. They don't > want anyone to know the truth over there. > > Matt > > > >

"daxe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... snip > You are falling victim to the 'everyone is a sim freak' line of thinking.big snip You are falling victim to the 'everyone is a long time computer freak used to putting up with software that doesn't work correctly' line of thinking. I am sure there are many people out there (my brother is one of them) that just recently bought a computer and absolutely loves watching motorsports of all kinds. When he bought a copy of NH and tried it out his first comments were "Why doesn't this game handle yellow flag situations correctly?". His next comment was "How come when I damage the car it doesn't show up in my lap times?". His next comment was "This sucks!". I (being a long time computer geek) had to spend some time educating him as to how hard it is to realistically model one of these sims and that despite it's drawbacks NH is a lot of fun but yes... it does lack somethings that are necessary to make the sim accurate. I also had to spend a lot of time turning on all those hidden features in the "options.cfg" file which my brother would have enabled himself but he didn't know how. He now thinks that I am either a genius or I have too much time on my hands or both!!! See, his response is probably the average NASCAR fans response who is fairly knowledgable about that sport. They don't know how hard it is to produce one of these sims they just know they spent a lot of money on a computer and they expect the simulation to be just that... an accurate simulation of a NASCAR event. I know for a fact that he will not buy another sim from Hasbro but I am pretty sure he will try N4 when it comes out and if N4 meets his expectations then Papyrus will get his repeat business. I haven't told him about GPL yet... don't want to discourage him. -- Robin MacMahon When replying via email please take out "the garbage".

>"daxe" <[email hidden]> wrote >THAT woman is a meat 'n' potatoes game buyer. The average gamer has more knowledge, daxe. You are clearly taking the lowest denominator here. It's a known fact that the average gamers normally knows before heading into a store what title he will buy, per example. That women was at the extreme like we are, just the opposite extreme. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

Thank you. One million dollars United States...was that correct? I should be able to at least buy a McHappy Meal once it's been converted to Oz currency. -- BK. --------------------------- daxe <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:39:01 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >(snip) > >As I have pointed out > >about similar things in the past, if every reader of r.a.s. decided > >not to buy a game that was selling well to the general public, it > >wouldn't even make a noteworthy blip on the corporate radar screens. > >(unsnip) > > > >You bloody plagiarist, Daxe! > >I said this first in RAS...over three years ago! And I patented it and > >pended it and copyrighted and trademarked it. Now gimme some money or I'll > >sue your arse off! > > The check is in the mail, Bruce... > > (great minds think alike) > > :o) > > ~daxe >

"Discourage" him? What's the problem....he doesn't know how to do anything other than drive around left-hand bends? -- BK. --------------------------- Robin <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:R3HJ5.41691$[email hidden]... > I haven't told him about GPL yet... don't want to discourage him. > > --

On Wed, 25 Oct 2000 21:29:12 GMT, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote: >>"daxe" <[email hidden]> wrote >>THAT woman is a meat 'n' potatoes game buyer. > > > The average gamer has more knowledge, daxe. I don't agree. > You are clearly taking the >lowest denominator here. Do you think there are more knowledgeable people than idiots in the world? > It's a known fact What is a "known fact"? Is it a fact because someone knows it or is it known because it's a fact? >that the average gamers normally >knows before heading into a store what title he will buy, per example. Exactly. Do you think the majorityt of sales of NH are to "gamers"? I don't. > That >women was at the extreme like we are, just the opposite extreme. Maybe so, but they outnumber us, in my opinion. ~daxe

On Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:07:13 GMT, "Robin" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>"daxe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >snip >> You are falling victim to the 'everyone is a sim freak' line of thinking. >big snip > >You are falling victim to the 'everyone is a long time computer freak used >to putting up with software that doesn't work correctly' line of thinking.

I know what you're saying, but my contention is that relatively few people will recognize that it "doesn't work correctly." >I am sure there are many people out there (my brother is one of them) that >just recently bought a computer and absolutely loves watching motorsports of >all kinds. Probably, but there are also a lot of new computer owners who like NASCAR and few other kind of motorsports and don;t even understand NASCAR all that well. I doubt they care about their lap times or would even notice that yellows are 'not handled correctly.' >When he bought a copy of NH and tried it out his first comments >were "Why doesn't this game handle yellow flag situations correctly?". His >next comment was "How come when I damage the car it doesn't show up in my >lap times?". His next comment was "This sucks!". Well, I don't think your brother is representative of the majority of buyers. I don't think MOST people care about accuracy of simulation, they care about having a good time. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd bet your brother is going to find something to pick on about every program he runs and exclaim "this sucks" about all of them. >I (being a long time >computer geek) had to spend some time educating him as to how hard it is to >realistically model one of these sims and that despite it's drawbacks NH is >a lot of fun but yes... it does lack somethings that are necessary to make >the sim accurate. If you had to "educate" him that NH is a lot of fun, it sounds like your brother thinks what you tell him to think. It is not suprising that he would echo your opinion. > I also had to spend a lot of time turning on all those >hidden features in the "options.cfg" file which my brother would have >enabled himself but he didn't know how. If it took you more than about 30 seconds to turn on the hidden features in options.cfg, you aren't much of a "long time computer geek".

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>He now thinks that I am either a >genius or I have too much time on my hands or both!!! >See, his response is probably the average NASCAR fans response who is fairly >knowledgable about that sport. They don't know how hard it is to produce one >of these sims they just know they spent a lot of money on a computer and >they expect the simulation to be just that... an accurate simulation of a >NASCAR event.

And I don't think the majority of buyers of NH are people looking for an accurate sim. If that was the case, Hasbro would have gone for the straight accurate sim aspect. Do you think big companies' market research is all BS? GPL is the most accurate sim to date. It sold very poorly. What does that tell you? It tells me that accurate sims are not what fills a game company's coffers. Games like NH, marketed as it is, sell well because they're fun to MOST of the people who might but it. > I know for a fact that he will not buy another sim from Hasbro And if you weren't sitting beside him the whole time I bet he wouldn't have come to that conclusion, either. >but I am pretty sure he will try N4 when it comes out and if N4 meets his >expectations then Papyrus will get his repeat business. Maybe so, but he has already purchased NH and this whole discussion is about N4 cutting into NH sales. >I haven't told him about GPL yet... don't want to discourage him. If after trying it, he likes it, he was only a hardcore-simmer-in-waiting, and never an average buyer. ~daxe

"daxe" and I wrote > > The average gamer has more knowledge, daxe. > > I don't agree. People need to stop thinking that the average gamer is just an idiot who choose his game by looking at the back of the box. Sure there is such people, but they are in minority compared to the masses. I know some pretty good data and statistics for the so-called "average" buyer from some company. It's bollocks today to think that he knows nothing. He knows much more then people think. He has access to the information more then ever (that doesn't mean he is always informed). > Do you think there are more knowledgeable people than idiots in the > world? Hmmm what I'm saying is that the woman is clearly the lowest denominator and NOT the majority. The median (which is slighty different depending on the types of game) in the racing industry is quite more knowledgeable then in other fields of gaming. Not as high as with flightsims, but close. Poor racing games bomb, there is only 1 good racing game that bombed and it's GPL. Thereof, the median gamer knows about the quality of a title before it's released. > What is a "known fact"? Is it a fact because someone knows it or is > it known because it's a fact? It's a known fact in the gaming industry. Check out any websites related to the industry-itself (not gaming websites), talk to people working in that field, check out game marketing magazines, etc... The median gamer in the _PC_ industry isn't dumb. He was never dumb. > Do you think the majority of sales of NH are to "gamers"? They are to gamers with interest in Stock-car racing. Most of the people (the mass, not the extremes) who bought MGPRS2 had interest in Formula 1 and had an acceptable knowledge of their PC, so I speculate the same applies to NASCAR titles. No the median gamer who bought NH wasn't a redneck who doesn't know what video card he has. There is some of them, in minority like we are a minority. If your so-called "dumb gamer" was so important in sales then why is the marketing mostly all targeted to people with normal knowledge of his games, in magazines and websites? You see it's more like a gauss curve, not a process of elimination and diminution curve. People who know less games doesn't buy much of serious ones. Look at the PC charts, you will see what the "dumb" gamer buys. That is where the curve looks more like a standard "\". -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

If that one ever gets lifted out of context, you're in a lot of trouble. ;-) Jan. =--- ymenard wrote... > > Hmmm what I'm saying is that the woman is clearly the lowest > denominator and...

"daxe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... snip > >When he bought a copy of NH and tried it out his first comments > >were "Why doesn't this game handle yellow flag situations correctly?".His

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> >next comment was "How come when I damage the car it doesn't show up in my > >lap times?". His next comment was "This sucks!". > > Well, I don't think your brother is representative of the majority of > buyers. I don't think MOST people care about accuracy of simulation, > they care about having a good time. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd > bet your brother is going to find something to pick on about every > program he runs and exclaim "this sucks" about all of them.

Well daxe... you don't know my brother and if you did you would know that that just isn't the case. > > >I (being a long time > >computer geek) had to spend some time educating him as to how hard it isto > >realistically model one of these sims and that despite it's drawbacks NHis > >a lot of fun but yes... it does lack somethings that are necessary tomake > >the sim accurate. > > If you had to "educate" him that NH is a lot of fun, it sounds like > your brother thinks what you tell him to think. It is not suprising > that he would echo your opinion. Maybe "educate" was a poor choice of words... I did point out that due to the lack of one of the features he expected the sim to incorporate (ie: realistic implementation of the rules of NASCAR) he should consider this a mostly arcade game and enjoy it for what it is. To reiterate my previous statement... you don't know my brother but if you met him and told him that he only "thinks what I tell him to think" he would most definately convince you otherwise.

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> > > I also had to spend a lot of time turning on all those > >hidden features in the "options.cfg" file which my brother would have > >enabled himself but he didn't know how. > > If it took you more than about 30 seconds to turn on the hidden > features in options.cfg, you aren't much of a "long time computer > geek".

Any time spent turning on features that should have been included in the menu systems is "a lot of time". > > >He now thinks that I am either a > >genius or I have too much time on my hands or both!!! > >See, his response is probably the average NASCAR fans response who isfairly > >knowledgable about that sport. They don't know how hard it is to produceone

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> >of these sims they just know they spent a lot of money on a computer and > >they expect the simulation to be just that... an accurate simulation of a > >NASCAR event. > > And I don't think the majority of buyers of NH are people looking for > an accurate sim. If that was the case, Hasbro would have gone for the > straight accurate sim aspect. Do you think big companies' market > research is all BS?

I beleive that sometimes big companies marketing people are out of touch with what people really want and target the wrong audience out of ignorance. It is a proven fact that just asking questions a certain way in a poll will skew results to however the person taking the poll wants. If Hasbro wanted to make an arcade game they certainly succeeded. > > GPL is the most accurate sim to date. It sold very poorly. What does > that tell you? It tells me that accurate sims are not what fills a > game company's coffers. Games like NH, marketed as it is, sell well > because they're fun to MOST of the people who might but it. Gee, that's too bad... for all of us. > > > I know for a fact that he will not buy another sim from Hasbro > > And if you weren't sitting beside him the whole time I bet he wouldn't > have come to that conclusion, either.As a matter of fact, I wasn't "sitting beside him the whole time" and again I would point out to you that he would take exception to you infering that he doesn't know how to make his own conclusions. > > >but I am pretty sure he will try N4 when it comes out and if N4 meets his > >expectations then Papyrus will get his repeat business. > > Maybe so, but he has already purchased NH and this whole discussion is > about N4 cutting into NH sales. I guess my point is that NH will cut into future Hasbro sales. > > >I haven't told him about GPL yet... don't want to discourage him. > > If after trying it, he likes it, he was only a > hardcore-simmer-in-waiting, and never an average buyer. That could very well be true. -- Robin MacMahon When replying via email please take out "the garbage".

On Wed, 25 Oct 2000 23:59:24 GMT, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote: >People need to stop thinking that the average gamer is just an idiot who >choose his game by looking at the back of the box. Why? > Sure there is such >people, but they are in minority compared to the masses. I know some pretty >good data and statistics for the so-called "average" buyer from some >company. Well, I don;t have any data at all, so you win. >Hmmm what I'm saying is that the woman is clearly the lowest denominator and >NOT the majority. The median (which is slighty different depending on the >types of game) in the racing industry is quite more knowledgeable then in >other fields of gaming. Not as high as with flightsims, but close. Poor >racing games bomb, there is only 1 good racing game that bombed and it's >GPL. How about SCGT? > Thereof, the median gamer knows about the quality of a title before >it's released. And median and majority are the same thing? >It's a known fact in the gaming industry. Check out any websites related to >the industry-itself (not gaming websites), talk to people working in that >field, check out game marketing magazines, etc... > >The median gamer in the _PC_ industry isn't dumb. He was never dumb. OK. >> Do you think the majority of sales of NH are to "gamers"? > > >They are to gamers with interest in Stock-car racing. I think you missed my point, that being that a "gamer" is a person who is serious about games and fits the median buyer you describe above. I have nothing to back it up, but I bet the sales figures are made successful or not successful based more on the doltish hordes than the well informed. > Most of the people >(the mass, not the extremes) who bought MGPRS2 had interest in Formula 1 and >had an acceptable knowledge of their PC, so I speculate the same applies to >NASCAR titles. No the median gamer who bought NH wasn't a redneck who >doesn't know what video card he has. There is some of them, in minority >like we are a minority. I think comparing a niche interest (in the USA) like Formula 1 to a big business like NASCAR is a mistake in this case. Someone interested in F1 in the USA is already identifiable as more than a casual fan and could be expected to be better informed, as such. I bet the "median gamer" who spells numbers to Hasbro is someone who saw the commercials on TV during a NASCAR race, not the well-informed and critical "gamer." >If your so-called "dumb gamer" was so important in sales then why is the >marketing mostly all targeted to people with normal knowledge of his games, >in magazines and websites? The only place I have seen marketing for NH is during NASCAR races. Apparently their money was not well spent elsewhere since i havent even seen any of those ads. >You see it's more like a gauss curve, not a process of elimination and >diminution curve. People who know less games doesn't buy much of serious >ones. Look at the PC charts, you will see what the "dumb" gamer buys. That >is where the curve looks more like a standard "\". Whatever. I like NH and I am going to play it until N4 comes out. I'll buy N4 and if it's more fun than NH, I'll delete NH like I deleted N3 when NH came out. If N4 isn't any more fun, I'll stick with NH. I have no problem with anything in the game whatsoever, it's the most enjoyable NASCAR sim/game I have ever played. If N4 turns out to be as much of a pain in the ass as GPL, it will get about as much play as GPL does on my computer: a couple hours every month or two. ~daxe

Only until the end of the season, then you have to out it away. The man said. -- BK. --------------------------- Rod Prince <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MPG.146110153073a87098974c@news-server... > In article <ZspJ5.21382$[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > > Nascar Heat is a dead game. There is still no second patch to fix all > > the AI problems, yellow flag problems etc. By the time it comes out, the > > season will be over. Nascar sims will be put away till next year and in > > February Nascar 4 will be out. You know Papy is looking at all the > > complaints of Nascar Heat and will have every one of them corrected in their > > game. > > Does that mean I'm not allowed to enjoy it anymore? > > Cheers, > Rod.

(snip) As I have pointed out about similar things in the past, if every reader of r.a.s. decided not to buy a game that was selling well to the general public, it wouldn't even make a noteworthy blip on the corporate radar screens. (unsnip) You bloody plagiarist, Daxe! I said this first in RAS...over three years ago! And I patented it and pended it and copyrighted and trademarked it. Now gimme some money or I'll sue your arse off! -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- daxe <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... >

'"out" is away'?! It's that BLOODY 'o' next to the 'p' again!!! -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Bruce Kennewell <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Only until the end of the season, then you have to out it away. The man > said. > > -- > BK. > --------------------------- > > Rod Prince <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:MPG.146110153073a87098974c@news-server... > > In article <ZspJ5.21382$[email hidden]>, > > [email hidden] says... > > > > > Nascar Heat is a dead game. There is still no second patch to fix > all > > > the AI problems, yellow flag problems etc. By the time it comes out, > the > > > season will be over. Nascar sims will be put away till next year and in > > > February Nascar 4 will be out. You know Papy is looking at all the > > > complaints of Nascar Heat and will have every one of them corrected in > their > > > game. > > > > Does that mean I'm not allowed to enjoy it anymore? > > > > Cheers, > > Rod. > >

On Thu, 26 Oct 2000 01:00:46 GMT, "Robin" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Well daxe... you don't know my brother and if you did you would know that >that just isn't the case. You're right.

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>Maybe "educate" was a poor choice of words... I did point out that due to >the lack of one of the features he expected the sim to incorporate (ie: >realistic implementation of the rules of NASCAR) he should consider this a >mostly arcade game and enjoy it for what it is. To reiterate my previous >statement... you don't know my brother but if you met him and told him that >he only "thinks what I tell him to think" he would most definately convince >you otherwise.

How would your brother "convince" me otherwise? >Any time spent turning on features that should have been included in the >menu systems is "a lot of time". Hyperboly deserves to be picked on. The features are there. Would you be happier if the features weren't available at all, or do you just like to focus on whatever you can bitch about? People who immediately look for everything that is wrong with something or what they can complain about baffle me. >I beleive that sometimes big companies marketing people are out of touch >with what people really want and target the wrong audience out of ignorance. Maybe once in a while, but I doubt it happens very often. It *is* what they are paid to do and a lot of $ rides on it. Maybe your notion of "what people really want" isn't really what MOST people want... >It is a proven fact that just asking questions a certain way in a poll will >skew results to however the person taking the poll wants. If Hasbro wanted >to make an arcade game they certainly succeeded. It's the best nascar SIM to date. It's DRIVING SIM, not a RULE BOOK SIM. And why the hell would they deliberately skew poll results to make something that would sell LESS? Where in the advertising or on the package does it tout "Most accurate adherence to NASCAR's complex and ever-changing rules" It doesn't, because that's not what it's about. >> GPL is the most accurate sim to date. It sold very poorly. What does >> that tell you? You didn't answer this. > It tells me that accurate sims are not what fills a >> game company's coffers. Games like NH, marketed as it is, sell well >> because they're fun to MOST of the people who might but it. > >Gee, that's too bad... for all of us. It's not too bad for me. I'm glad everything is not like GPL because GPL is annoyingly difficult and anachronistic. I don;t like pure arcade racers, either, but then NH is not what I consider and arcade racer. >I would point out to you that he would take exception to you infering that >he doesn't know how to make his own conclusions. Sounds like you are pretty impressed with your brother. >I guess my point is that NH will cut into future Hasbro sales. And I don't agree with you. For every one of your hypothetical people who will be turned off because yellow flags are inconsistent and bent bumpers dont knock .3 seconds off your lap times, there is someone else who will most definitely buy the next Hasbro game because NH is a great game, is tons of fun, has a great driving model, looks terrific and proves that Hasbro has what it takes to make a fantastic NASCAR game. In fact, my point is that there are likely more of the latter. ~daxe

Somewhere on Earth, on Wed, 25 Oct 2000 06:11:43 GMT, daxe <[email hidden]> posted a message:

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>What language are you trying to speak? Do you know what "impending" >means? It means 'before it happens.' The success of N4 is not too >good before it is even released, ya think? I don't think any one of >the general public is going to go pick up the NH box in a software >store and put it back down because another title they have never even >heard of isn't out yet. They certainly won't be swayed by the fact >that N4 uses the GPL physics engine.

I couldn't agree LESS. If you saw N3 on the shelves of EB, but had read a positive review of N4 which was being released next week, would you still buy N3, or would you wait for N4? BUT, if on the other hand you weren't aware of N4, or you had read that it was a flopp, would you put N3 down? Of course not. The success, or impending success of games don't start from when they are officially released - they start from when all the hype begins, which is often long before the game hits the shelves. >And until N4 is released, I suppose no-one is buying NH? I'm sure they will, but only because N4 is still a few months away. As time approaches, the sells of NH are likely to drop. >Besides that, if someone is >able to make the comparison first hand and decide which is "better", >haven't they probably already bought both games anyway? The first they they SHOULD do is find out what games reviewers thinking. I make a rule of never buying a title without having solid knowledge of it beforehand. Can't imagine why anybody else wouldn't do the same.

On Thu, 26 Oct 2000 06:16:57 +0100, Maverick and Goose <[email hidden]> wrote: >I couldn't agree LESS. If you saw N3 on the shelves of EB, but had >read a positive review of N4 which was being released next week, would >you still buy N3, or would you wait for N4? This is irrelevant. N4 is the sequel to N3. We were talking about NH vs. N4. What's up with the notion that you can only have one product or the other, anyway? If I wanted a game now, I'd buy it now, regardless of what else was coming out. I'd buy the one that comes out when it's out, too. >BUT, if on the other hand you weren't aware of N4, or you had read >that it was a flopp, would you put N3 down? Of course not. Neither would you put NH down. Do you think Joe Blow (not Joe Blow: sim racing fan) who just saw an ad for NH on a NASCAR race, is even aware of N4? The games are going to be released (supposedly) 6 months apart. They are not really the principles of some great dichotomy. >The >success, or impending success These are not the same thing. > of games don't start from when they are >officially released - they start from when all the hype begins, which >is often long before the game hits the shelves. What happens before a game is released is 'potential' success. What happens after it is released would be success (or not). >I'm sure they will, but only because N4 is still a few months away. As >time approaches, the sells of NH are likely to drop. So, if N4 was not going to be released or didn't even exist, then the "sells" of NH would not experience any drop whatsoever 6 months after the game's release? DUH. >The first they they SHOULD do is find out what games reviewers >thinking. uhh....OK....? > I make a rule of never buying a title without having solid >knowledge of it beforehand. Can't imagine why anybody else wouldn't do >the same. Because to some of us 40 or 50 $ is not a lot of money and/or we are into instant gratification. I have even bought games after reading that they sucked, just to see for myself. I have bought games discussed in here after deciding I wouldn't like them, just so I can have a reference point for posts on the game. Whatever. Let's all just do what we want and stop bitching. ~daxe

Daxe, Instead of going through this item by item and refuting your opinions over and over I'll just say that yes, I am very impressed with my brother. I respect him and we are best of friends with a lot of mutual interests... not that you care, obviously. You have a wrong impression of me when you infer that I am the type of person that only looks to point out what is wrong with something. I am sure I have a inaccurate impression of you when I think that you are the type of person that feels threatened personally when someone doesn't like what you like and you lash out verbally in retaliation. What it all comes down to is it just doesn't matter what you think of this game or what I think of it. You are happy with your copy and I am not happy with mine... I expected more and you obviously didn't. 'nuff said -- Robin MacMahon When replying via email please take out "the garbage". "daxe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Thu, 26 Oct 2000 01:00:46 GMT, "Robin" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Well daxe... you don't know my brother and if you did you would know that > >that just isn't the case. > > You're right. > > >Maybe "educate" was a poor choice of words... I did point out that due to > >the lack of one of the features he expected the sim to incorporate (ie: > >realistic implementation of the rules of NASCAR) he should consider this a > >mostly arcade game and enjoy it for what it is. To reiterate my previous > >statement... you don't know my brother but if you met him and told him that > >he only "thinks what I tell him to think" he would most definately convince > >you otherwise. > > How would your brother "convince" me otherwise? > > >Any time spent turning on features that should have been included in the > >menu systems is "a lot of time". > > Hyperboly deserves to be picked on. The features are there. Would you > be happier if the features weren't available at all, or do you just > like to focus on whatever you can bitch about? People who immediately > look for everything that is wrong with something or what they can > complain about baffle me. > > >I beleive that sometimes big companies marketing people are out of touch > >with what people really want and target the wrong audience out of ignorance. > > Maybe once in a while, but I doubt it happens very often. It *is* > what they are paid to do and a lot of $ rides on it. Maybe your > notion of "what people really want" isn't really what MOST people > want... > > >It is a proven fact that just asking questions a certain way in a poll will > >skew results to however the person taking the poll wants. If Hasbro wanted > >to make an arcade game they certainly succeeded. > > It's the best nascar SIM to date. It's DRIVING SIM, not a RULE BOOK > SIM. And why the hell would they deliberately skew poll results to > make something that would sell LESS? Where in the advertising or on > the package does it tout "Most accurate adherence to NASCAR's complex > and ever-changing rules" It doesn't, because that's not what it's > about. > > >> GPL is the most accurate sim to date. It sold very poorly. What does > >> that tell you? > > You didn't answer this. > > > It tells me that accurate sims are not what fills a > >> game company's coffers. Games like NH, marketed as it is, sell well > >> because they're fun to MOST of the people who might but it. > > > >Gee, that's too bad... for all of us. > > It's not too bad for me. I'm glad everything is not like GPL because > GPL is annoyingly difficult and anachronistic. I don;t like pure > arcade racers, either, but then NH is not what I consider and arcade > racer. > > >I would point out to you that he would take exception to you infering that > >he doesn't know how to make his own conclusions. > > Sounds like you are pretty impressed with your brother. > > >I guess my point is that NH will cut into future Hasbro sales. > > And I don't agree with you. For every one of your hypothetical people > who will be turned off because yellow flags are inconsistent and bent > bumpers dont knock .3 seconds off your lap times, there is someone > else who will most definitely buy the next Hasbro game because NH is a > great game, is tons of fun, has a great driving model, looks terrific > and proves that Hasbro has what it takes to make a fantastic NASCAR > game. In fact, my point is that there are likely more of the latter. > > ~daxe

On Thu, 26 Oct 2000 09:21:45 GMT, "Robin" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Daxe, >Instead of going through this item by item and refuting your opinions over >and over I'll just say that yes, I am very impressed with my brother. I >respect him and we are best of friends with a lot of mutual interests... not >that you care, obviously. I am glad you have a good relationship with your brother. A lot of people end up with bitter rivalries that foul up that sort of thing. >You have a wrong impression of me when you infer that I am the type of >person that only looks to point out what is wrong with something. Like any of the people I get to arguing with in here, I would probably think the world of you in person. A lot gets lost in the translation when you communicate through typing alone. I'm not as whiny as I seem in type, honest. >I am sure >I have a inaccurate impression of you when I think that you are the type of >person that feels threatened personally when someone doesn't like what you >like and you lash out verbally in retaliation. I don't feel threatened, but I enjoy debating the merits of things from my perspective. I lashed out because you accused me of something I felt wasn't true and I felt the need to redefine my position in light of that. I think I made valid points that go beyond simply what I think about the game, but no matter. >What it all comes down to is it just doesn't matter what you think of this >game or what I think of it. You are happy with your copy and I am not happy >with mine... I expected more and you obviously didn't. Perhaps the difference is that I approached it *without* expectations and let it prove or disprove itself on its own merits. I think it's a philosophical difference in approach to things which differs from yours, though you ended coming from my perspective in advising your brother. That doesn't mean mine is right or wrong, nor is yours, but it is an interesting distinction to me anyway. >'nuff said True. Lets get back to racing. And I'll buy both you and your brother a beer if Iever run across you anyplace. ~daxe

>"The PlayStation2 doesn't live up to Sony's hype." >- John Carmack, in Time Magazine. What is this guy smoking??? Been playing the damn thing all day. NHL2001 has GOT to be the best sports game I have ever played. Midnight Club is damn fun racing around NYC running people over, running red lights, dodging cops, etc. Graphics are awesome on the thing and the few games my brother and I have tried playing real quickly seem real fun, in fact quite a bit more fun than most of the games released recently for the old Playstation.

Not only is Nascar Heat dead, it appears the Officail Message board is dead too. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

I'll definately take you up on that offer. I am pretty sure you'll have to travel north to find me though. -- Robin MacMahon When replying via email please take out "the garbage". "daxe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > True. Lets get back to racing. And I'll buy both you and your > brother a beer if Iever run across you anyplace. > > ~daxe >

On Fri, 27 Oct 2000 08:52:31 GMT, "Robin" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I'll definately take you up on that offer. I am pretty sure you'll have to >travel north to find me though. I live in Massachusetts, where are you guys? ~daxe (always looking for someone to buy beer for)

"Fenech" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ZspJ5.21382$[email hidden]... > Seeing that this post got deleted from the Nascar Heat official boardsince

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> Hasbro will not post anything with the truth, I will post it here. > ... > The officail Nascar Heat board is a joke. anything you post saying > anything negative about the game, just gets deleted. Try it. They don't > want anyone to know the truth over there. > > Matt > >

Actually, Matt, we don't have a problem at all with "negative" posts and we especially encourage the truth. What we do have a problem with off-topic, counter-productive and inflammatory posts over on the NASCAR Heat forum (http://www.nascarheat.com). Unfortunately, your postings over there tended to fit into that category of stuff that we won't put up with so some of your posts got deleted and your ID over there is now banned & gagged. The Heat forum is a moderated forum, Matt. So while the truth is welcome, your style & attitude were not, and in a moderated forum, we are able to handle that. Sorry if that truth hurts. --ed.

Jan Verschueren wrote: > > If that one ever gets lifted out of context, you're in a lot of trouble. ;-) You discovered the magic secret of politics... ;) "snip...I invented the internet...snip" l8er ronny

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> > Jan. > =--- > ymenard wrote... > > > > Hmmm what I'm saying is that the woman is clearly the lowest > > denominator and...

-- l8er ronny Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change to take effect. Reboot now? |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

Western Canada... Alberta. Looks like that beer is a long shot. :) -- Robin MacMahon When replying via email please take out "the garbage". "daxe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Fri, 27 Oct 2000 08:52:31 GMT, "Robin" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I'll definately take you up on that offer. I am pretty sure you'll have to > >travel north to find me though. > > I live in Massachusetts, where are you guys? > > ~daxe (always looking for someone to buy beer for) >

On Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:07:28 GMT, "Robin" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Western Canada... Alberta. Looks like that beer is a long shot. :) But at least if it's up there the beer is better. ~daxe

I'm glad you said it and not me... hate to start a beer flame war between the U.S. and Canada... but I do agree. -- Robin MacMahon When replying via email please take out "the garbage". "daxe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:07:28 GMT, "Robin" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Western Canada... Alberta. Looks like that beer is a long shot. :) > > But at least if it's up there the beer is better. > > ~daxe >