F12000 and Force Feedback

I recently bought F12000. It was only ten dollars, so I decided to give it a try. Just to see how the thing goes in case F12000 championship edition comes. Haven't patched it yet. One thing I noticed was a FF problem. When in the pitlane, you can really feel the FF. I use LWFF and you can make it as tough as you can, but only in the pitlane. Once you're on the circuit, FF appears to go right into the trashcan. The wheel acts like the car is in a 'holiday on ice show'. It floates from side to side far to easy, with hardly any resistance at all. Ok�, you can use the centering spring, but that should not be the way to go. Even in F1RS FF is implemented better than in this game. Bu if they fix this, it's not a bad game. Or should I fix it myself ? In that case, can anyone help me with it ? Does the game use I-FF ? Where is the file with the FF-settings ? scrcs

You MUST get the 1.09 patch from the Blackhole Motorsports site (http://www.bhmotorsports.com/) -- that fixes several force feedback problems, I believe. FWIW, I'm not a force feedback user, or a believer, for that matter -- it's just an expensive gimmick, as far as I'm concerned, and, yes, I do own a force feedback wheel (plus about 8 other non-FF wheels). The 1.09 patch helps a lot of other things, too, so it's a MUST-HAVE for F1 2000. -- JB In article <8u664b$56c$[email hidden]>, "scrcs" <[email hidden]> wrote: > I recently bought F12000. It was only ten dollars, so I decided togive it a > try. Just to see how the thing goes in case F12000 championshipedition > comes. Haven't patched it yet. > > One thing I noticed was a FF problem. When in the pitlane, you canreally > feel the FF. I use LWFF and you can make it as tough as you can, butonly in > the pitlane. Once you're on the circuit, FF appears to go right intothe > trashcan. The wheel acts like the car is in a 'holiday on ice show'.It > floates from side to side far to easy, with hardly any resistance atall. > Ok�, you can use the centering spring, but that should not be the wayto go. > Even in F1RS FF is implemented better than in this game. Bu if theyfix > this, it's not a bad game. > > Or should I fix it myself ? In that case, can anyone help me withit ? Does > the game use I-FF ? Where is the file with the FF-settings ? > > scrcs > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

oke, I'll give a shot tonight. If it's better I'll tell you. scrcs

I will. But I still do not know where ea takes it's FF-settings from. Is there a file like in F1RS or MGP ? scrcs "Gregor Veble" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (10 lines)

> scrcs wrote: > > > > oke, I'll give a shot tonight. If it's better I'll tell you. > > > > scrcs > > Also, be sure to set the steering speed sensitivity to 0, so the forces > will buld up realistically with speed. > > -Gregor

scrcs wrote: > > oke, I'll give a shot tonight. If it's better I'll tell you. > > scrcs Also, be sure to set the steering speed sensitivity to 0, so the forces will buld up realistically with speed. -Gregor

In article <8u8n3l$jr2$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted text (8 lines)

> I did the centering spring-thing. It did help somewhat, but it's not what I > expected to be. Than I adjusted the speed sensitivity to 0. Oops. Every I > drove didn't get out of the A1-ring pitlane without bashing the boarding. No > way cars could be driven that way. > Then I went back to the profiler and changed sensitivity settings of all the > axes to 'high'. With FF at 150% and reduced sensitivity of the controller > (75%), and with about 30% speed sensitivity all of a sudden the whole thing > went quit well.

Pardon me, I don't have the rest of the thread stored locally. WHich wheel are you using? If the LWFF, be careful of overheating if you're running 150% - after a half race, you may find all FF effects shutting down. The wheel's electronics are protected against overheating, and when the unit gets too hot, it shuts the motor off.

You can turn off the centering spring with the patch. The FF is a lot better with the patch once you can turn off the spring. -- PD Greg Cisko wrote: > > The only real solution (unfortunately) is to set your spring > centering to 50%. You should then find the feel is pretty > good. I would have preferred that they actually fixed it > though. > > -- > > [email hidden] > > "scrcs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:8u664b$56c$[email hidden]... > > I recently bought F12000. It was only ten dollars, so I decided to give it > a > > try. Just to see how the thing goes in case F12000 championship edition > > comes. Haven't patched it yet. > > > > One thing I noticed was a FF problem. When in the pitlane, you can really > > feel the FF. I use LWFF and you can make it as tough as you can, but only > in > > the pitlane. Once you're on the circuit, FF appears to go right into the > > trashcan. The wheel acts like the car is in a 'holiday on ice show'. It > > floates from side to side far to easy, with hardly any resistance at all. > > Ok�, you can use the centering spring, but that should not be the way to > go. > > Even in F1RS FF is implemented better than in this game. Bu if they fix > > this, it's not a bad game. > > > > Or should I fix it myself ? In that case, can anyone help me with it ? > Does > > the game use I-FF ? Where is the file with the FF-settings ? > > > > scrcs > > > > > > > >

Greg Cisko wrote: > > The main "fixes" were to disable FF during crashes which > crashed several users systems (or at least crash to desktop > the game). Other than that there were no real FF "fixes" to > speak of. Unfortunately... Except that you dont' have to turn on the centering spring after the patch is installed, as I mentioned elsewhere. It took me a while to figure that out. Try it - you'll like it!

Quoted text (50 lines)

> [email hidden] > > <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8u68su$31h$[email hidden]... > > You MUST get the 1.09 patch from the Blackhole Motorsports site > > (http://www.bhmotorsports.com/) -- that fixes several force feedback > > problems, I believe. FWIW, I'm not a force feedback user, or a > > believer, for that matter -- it's just an expensive gimmick, as far as > > I'm concerned, and, yes, I do own a force feedback wheel (plus about 8 > > other non-FF wheels). > > > > The 1.09 patch helps a lot of other things, too, so it's a MUST-HAVE > > for F1 2000. > > > > -- JB > > > > In article <8u664b$56c$[email hidden]>, > > "scrcs" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > I recently bought F12000. It was only ten dollars, so I decided to > > give it a > > > try. Just to see how the thing goes in case F12000 championship > > edition > > > comes. Haven't patched it yet. > > > > > > One thing I noticed was a FF problem. When in the pitlane, you can > > really > > > feel the FF. I use LWFF and you can make it as tough as you can, but > > only in > > > the pitlane. Once you're on the circuit, FF appears to go right into > > the > > > trashcan. The wheel acts like the car is in a 'holiday on ice show'. > > It > > > floates from side to side far to easy, with hardly any resistance at > > all. > > > Ok�, you can use the centering spring, but that should not be the way > > to go. > > > Even in F1RS FF is implemented better than in this game. Bu if they > > fix > > > this, it's not a bad game. > > > > > > Or should I fix it myself ? In that case, can anyone help me with > > it ? Does > > > the game use I-FF ? Where is the file with the FF-settings ? > > > > > > scrcs > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > Before you buy.

I did the centering spring-thing. It did help somewhat, but it's not what I expected to be. Than I adjusted the speed sensitivity to 0. Oops. Every I drove didn't get out of the A1-ring pitlane without bashing the boarding. No way cars could be driven that way. Then I went back to the profiler and changed sensitivity settings of all the axes to 'high'. With FF at 150% and reduced sensitivity of the controller (75%), and with about 30% speed sensitivity all of a sudden the whole thing went quit well. Btw., no crashing during a race when I hit something, so why should I use the patch ? scrcs

The only real solution (unfortunately) is to set your spring centering to 50%. You should then find the feel is pretty good. I would have preferred that they actually fixed it though. -- [email hidden] "scrcs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8u664b$56c$[email hidden]... > I recently bought F12000. It was only ten dollars, so I decided to give it a > try. Just to see how the thing goes in case F12000 championship edition > comes. Haven't patched it yet. > > One thing I noticed was a FF problem. When in the pitlane, you can really > feel the FF. I use LWFF and you can make it as tough as you can, but only in > the pitlane. Once you're on the circuit, FF appears to go right into the > trashcan. The wheel acts like the car is in a 'holiday on ice show'. It > floates from side to side far to easy, with hardly any resistance at all. > Ok�, you can use the centering spring, but that should not be the way to go. > Even in F1RS FF is implemented better than in this game. Bu if they fix > this, it's not a bad game. > > Or should I fix it myself ? In that case, can anyone help me with it ? Does > the game use I-FF ? Where is the file with the FF-settings ? > > scrcs > > > >

The main "fixes" were to disable FF during crashes which crashed several users systems (or at least crash to desktop the game). Other than that there were no real FF "fixes" to speak of. Unfortunately... -- [email hidden] <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8u68su$31h$[email hidden]... > You MUST get the 1.09 patch from the Blackhole Motorsports site > (http://www.bhmotorsports.com/) -- that fixes several force feedback > problems, I believe. FWIW, I'm not a force feedback user, or a > believer, for that matter -- it's just an expensive gimmick, as far as > I'm concerned, and, yes, I do own a force feedback wheel (plus about 8 > other non-FF wheels). > > The 1.09 patch helps a lot of other things, too, so it's a MUST-HAVE > for F1 2000. > > -- JB > > In article <8u664b$56c$[email hidden]>, > "scrcs" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > I recently bought F12000. It was only ten dollars, so I decided to > give it a > > try. Just to see how the thing goes in case F12000 championship > edition > > comes. Haven't patched it yet. > > > > One thing I noticed was a FF problem. When in the pitlane, you can > really > > feel the FF. I use LWFF and you can make it as tough as you can, but > only in > > the pitlane. Once you're on the circuit, FF appears to go right into > the > > trashcan. The wheel acts like the car is in a 'holiday on ice show'. > It > > floates from side to side far to easy, with hardly any resistance at > all. > > Ok�, you can use the centering spring, but that should not be the way > to go. > > Even in F1RS FF is implemented better than in this game. Bu if they > fix > > this, it's not a bad game. > > > > Or should I fix it myself ? In that case, can anyone help me with > it ? Does > > the game use I-FF ? Where is the file with the FF-settings ? > > > > scrcs > > > > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.

Good question. But you should remember that as you pointed out in the original question, the FF is fine in the pits and craps out when you hit the blend line. The result is the FF in the game is hosed, but can be somewhat salvaged by setting the spring centering strength to 50%. -- [email hidden] "scrcs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8u6k4t$fba$[email hidden]... > I will. But I still do not know where ea takes it's FF-settings from. Is > there a file like in F1RS or MGP ? > > scrcs > "Gregor Veble" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > scrcs wrote: > > > > > > oke, I'll give a shot tonight. If it's better I'll tell you. > > > > > > scrcs > > > > Also, be sure to set the steering speed sensitivity to 0, so the forces > > will buld up realistically with speed. > > > > -Gregor > >

Maybe it sounds stupid but what do you mean with steering lock ? Where is and what should I do about it ? Is it something with the adjustible range of the wheel in DXtweak ? scrcs "Gregor Veble" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > scrcs wrote: > > > > That's a tip I can use. But how about this 0% speed sensitivity ?Absolutely > > shit to drive cars with that setting !! What other settings do you guyshave

Quoted text (12 lines)

> > ? Dead zone=0 (DXtweak will show you)? How about the sensitivity in the > > profiler, in general characteristics I think ? Sensitivity lo/med/hi ? > > Deadzone in the profiler ? > > > > scrcs > > > > The settings with 0% speed sensitivity are OK to drive (not to mention > realistic), but be sure to decrease the steering lock in your setups as > well. > > -Gregor

Never had any problems with 150% in Monaco GP or F1RS. But if it does happen in F12000, I will have a chat with the logitech boys. Because this should happen, of course.. scrcs "BriGuy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <8u8n3l$jr2$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > > I did the centering spring-thing. It did help somewhat, but it's notwhat I > > expected to be. Than I adjusted the speed sensitivity to 0. Oops. EveryI > > drove didn't get out of the A1-ring pitlane without bashing theboarding. No > > way cars could be driven that way. > > Then I went back to the profiler and changed sensitivity settings of allthe > > axes to 'high'. With FF at 150% and reduced sensitivity of thecontroller > > (75%), and with about 30% speed sensitivity all of a sudden the wholething

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > went quit well. > > Pardon me, I don't have the rest of the thread stored locally. WHich > wheel are you using? If the LWFF, be careful of overheating if you're > running 150% - after a half race, you may find all FF effects shutting > down. The wheel's electronics are protected against overheating, and > when the unit gets too hot, it shuts the motor off.

That's a tip I can use. But how about this 0% speed sensitivity ? Absolutely shit to drive cars with that setting !! What other settings do you guys have ? Dead zone=0 (DXtweak will show you)? How about the sensitivity in the profiler, in general characteristics I think ? Sensitivity lo/med/hi ? Deadzone in the profiler ? scrcs > Except that you dont' have to turn on the centering > spring after the patch is installed, as I mentioned > elsewhere. It took me a while to figure that out. > Try it - you'll like it! > >

Something else changed in the game, I think. It's the programming of the buttons. I had all info about the buttons underneath 'controller', after a somewhat weard programming method (double conformation of the buttons) in the original version. After installing the 1.09 patch (and the NO-CD patch as well btw) I had no buttons working anymore. The controller settings did show a description of the axes used for steering, breaking and accell. But the rest, such as break balance on button 3 and 5, was gone. After some fiddeling about I found out that the strange double programming thing was gone, but I could not get a confirmation of the functions of the buttons I programmed. What did happen was that the confirmation popped up underneath the keyboard descriptions, and that mislead me for quit a while because I thought it was not correct. After a while I was so pissed off, I started a test session just to let the frustration out. Drove Shumi's car, which I prefer to drive with break balance a bit more to the back, so I clicked the button as I was used to before the patch, forgetting that I didn't fix the controller-programming at all. And indeed... the buttons simply worked. So something else changed after the patch, or it's just me messing up things. scrcs "Pat Dotson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (7 lines)

> You can turn off the centering spring with > the patch. The FF is a lot better with > the patch once you can turn off the spring. > > -- > PD >

scrcs wrote:

Quoted text (9 lines)

> > That's a tip I can use. But how about this 0% speed sensitivity ? Absolutely > shit to drive cars with that setting !! What other settings do you guys have > ? Dead zone=0 (DXtweak will show you)? How about the sensitivity in the > profiler, in general characteristics I think ? Sensitivity lo/med/hi ? > Deadzone in the profiler ? > > scrcs >

The settings with 0% speed sensitivity are OK to drive (not to mention realistic), but be sure to decrease the steering lock in your setups as well. -Gregor

scrcs wrote:

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > Maybe it sounds stupid but what do you mean with steering lock ? Where is > and what should I do about it ? Is it something with the adjustible range of > the wheel in DXtweak ? > > scrcs >

It's a part of the car setup, and gives the maximum angle that the wheels can turn when applying full steering lock. I haven't played F1 2000 in a while, but in GP3 a value of 10-12 works and I think it should be quite similar there. -Gregor

Aha. I'll try to find this one tonight. If it works I'll come back and start screaming it worked. If not..... scrcs "Gregor Veble" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > scrcs wrote: > > > > Maybe it sounds stupid but what do you mean with steering lock ? Whereis > > and what should I do about it ? Is it something with the adjustiblerange of

Quoted text (11 lines)

> > the wheel in DXtweak ? > > > > scrcs > > > > It's a part of the car setup, and gives the maximum angle that the > wheels can turn when applying full steering lock. I haven't played F1 > 2000 in a while, but in GP3 a value of 10-12 works and I think it should > be quite similar there. > > -Gregor

In article <8ugit2$2p6$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted text (11 lines)

> ...I won't scream. Because the steering lock thing you mean is not to be > messed with to get a good FF feeling. It's meant to adjust the car steering > to the angle of the corners on the circuit. If you have a very narrow 180 > degree corner, you'll need meer degrees before steering lock. If you do not > need that many degrees, you can reduce them. But beware, if you make ride > through the sand or if you end up in a spin, all of sudden your would love > to have a larger angle just to get back into the right direction as quikly > as possible. > All in all, FF is not a super thing in this game. And just to mention it, > the Ferrari has a strange cockpit view. There is too much of a hump in front > of you to see the track properly. I'm gona get the patch for that.

The real Ferrari has quite a high nose - I think this 'patch' (which one, I have no idea) would therefore be removing realism from the game.

...I won't scream. Because the steering lock thing you mean is not to be messed with to get a good FF feeling. It's meant to adjust the car steering to the angle of the corners on the circuit. If you have a very narrow 180 degree corner, you'll need meer degrees before steering lock. If you do not need that many degrees, you can reduce them. But beware, if you make ride through the sand or if you end up in a spin, all of sudden your would love to have a larger angle just to get back into the right direction as quikly as possible. All in all, FF is not a super thing in this game. And just to mention it, the Ferrari has a strange cockpit view. There is too much of a hump in front of you to see the track properly. I'm gona get the patch for that. Also, I really miss the telemetry. One thing that amazes me is the FPS. I raced a short one last night will practically everything maxed or in high. I've got a cellie 530@800 and a wicked vengeange banshee, along with 128 mb sdram (133, mhz but set at 100mhz ) on Abit BH. Smooth as anything. Only a very short hickup at the start. And no rough landings so far. Was I lucky in more than just one way ? scrcs

scrcs wrote:

Quoted text (21 lines)

> > ...I won't scream. Because the steering lock thing you mean is not to be > messed with to get a good FF feeling. It's meant to adjust the car steering > to the angle of the corners on the circuit. If you have a very narrow 180 > degree corner, you'll need meer degrees before steering lock. If you do not > need that many degrees, you can reduce them. But beware, if you make ride > through the sand or if you end up in a spin, all of sudden your would love > to have a larger angle just to get back into the right direction as quikly > as possible. > All in all, FF is not a super thing in this game. And just to mention it, > the Ferrari has a strange cockpit view. There is too much of a hump in front > of you to see the track properly. I'm gona get the patch for that. Also, I > really miss the telemetry. > One thing that amazes me is the FPS. I raced a short one last night will > practically everything maxed or in high. I've got a cellie 530@800 and a > wicked vengeange banshee, along with 128 mb sdram (133, mhz but set at > 100mhz ) on Abit BH. Smooth as anything. Only a very short hickup at the > start. And no rough landings so far. > Was I lucky in more than just one way ? > > scrcs

I probably forgot to mention the steering lock is not meant to get a better FF feel, but simply to prevent the car from beeing to twitchy when speed sensitivity is set to 0, a setting necessary to get better FF effects. -Gregor