Re: GPL Strategy Guide

At issue here is business. Nascar sells. GPL didn't, even though it is a great game. What I would love to see is ICR3. On 14 Nov 2000 19:20:21 +0100, [email hidden] (Olav K. Malmin) wrote:

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>"Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> writes: > >> So let's hope and pray that the powers that be will realize NASCAR >> has peaked (enuf! already), and that the time quickly approacheth >> for GPL 2. > >Papyrus got to release something after NASCAR 4, and that better not >be another NASCAR product. If not GPL 2, pretty please with sugar on >top, a certain american/international openwheel series which races on >four types of tracks on five different continents :)

--- Tyler Eaves Visit Ultra Coaster Central! The internet's largest repository of Ultra Coaster Tracks! http://www.ultracoastercentral.com -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

Does anyone know why the guide doesn't mention the Ferrari?

"Dennis A. Burke" wrote: > > Does anyone know why the guide doesn't mention the Ferrari? I think the manuals were printed before confirmation of the Ferrari license came through. Kev

Kevin Clark <[email hidden]> writes: > "Dennis A. Burke" wrote: > > > > Does anyone know why the guide doesn't mention the Ferrari? > > I think the manuals were printed before confirmation of the Ferrari > license came through. Funny thing is that there is a picture of a jumping Ferrari in the cover. It is more like it was written before the confirmation of the Ferrari license... or something. -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

On Tue 14 Nov 2000 06:20:21p, Olav K. Malmin wrote: <snip> >Papyrus got to release something after NASCAR 4, and that better not >be another NASCAR product.<snip> Hah! As far as the big software companies are concerned (and what other type is there, these days?), there are only two racing formulae that matter - NASCAR for America, and F1 for everywhere else. Rallying gets a look in too - but I wonder how many of the people who buy Colin McRae do it because of the physics or the realism, and how many do it to crash into things? GPL2 is almost certain to remain a pipe-dream, as big companies think about virtually nothing other than profits these days. The occasional labour of love - GPL, WSC (I hope!), the football management sim Championship Manager - stands out all the more because of its rarity. The only conceivable way I could imagine any sort of GPL2 happening is if Sierra did what iD have done with Quake, and made the source open. Then we might really see some interesting stuff. Regrettably, though, I don't think they've got the guts. I hope I'm wrong. What we really need is a Looking Glass Software for racing games - but look what happened to them... -- David. (GPLRank handicap: -5.92) The GPL Scrapyard - http://www.hillclimbfan.f2s.com "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.

Dennis, all, I explained the whole thing over on Alison Hine's site (under 'Steve Smith's Advanced Setup Guide', now otherwise hopelessly outdated). Basically, Ferrari had the right, under their licensing agreement with Papyrus, as I understand it, to vet any reference to their sainted brand. The strategy guide had to go to the printer on a Monday (to make the deadline to ship with the game), and the weekend before, nobody was willing to go over the copy, so each and every reference to Ferrari was simply excised from the book (without consulting me; I was amazed the book read as well as it did), like the V.C. hacking off each innoculated child's arm in "Apocalypse Now." Well...maybe not *exactly* like that, but hyperbole is my stock in trade. Too bad they did. In the original manuscript, I heaped praise on Ferrrari, calling it the easiest car to drive in GPL (it isn't; the Cooper is...although only Doug Arnao knew that at the time), and among the fastest (true...but barely). It still looks great, and, with the right .wav file, even sounds right. --Steve Smith (who wrote "Four-Wheel Drift," the strategy guide that shipped with the game) Dennis A. Burke <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8up3j4$m95$[email hidden]... > Does anyone know why the guide doesn't mention the Ferrari? > >

Great effort there Steve, A lot of it still rings true (I most definately "dig" those socks you suggested <g>). Those who critisize the original literature and setup strategies should consider that if GPL has the power to boggle people who first play it even now, imagine what it was like for people getting to play it before it's release. Not to mention we now enjoy the added benifit of force feedback and thus have a better understanding of what the car is doing. We/they had GP2 and IRC2 to go on, nothing more. The degree of sophistication we see today is a culmination of experience with the game, other titles in the genre and knowledge about the era aquired by a great many people. The average GPL online jockey presently stands on the shoulders of giants. All things considered I think the pioneers did as good a job as could be expected, seeing as they had the added pressure of a deadline. Jan. =--- Stephen Smith wrote... > Dennis, all, > > <snip>

On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 00:24:07 GMT, "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote: >--Steve Smith (who wrote "Four-Wheel Drift," the strategy guide that shipped >with the game) >I should have realized you monitored this newsgroup, Steve. I've been meaning to drop you a note of thanks and appreciation for both the Strategy Guide and the F2 guide at Alison's site, but now I get to do it here instead. Very nice work! I recently "rediscovered" the game now that I have hardware that's better suited for the game and have just come to appreciate just how thorough both guides are. And after all that, I guess I'd better find a stamp for that Car & Driver subscription form sitting on my desk ;) -Greg

Greg, Jan, Thanks for yer comments. To me, the most amazing thing is how well the game has stood the test of time. If the online component didn't work as well as it does (and if this element hadn't been *majorly* upgraded, by Alison Hine and Randy Cassidy, since GPL's original release), the game might have sunk w/o a trace. But the fact that there's still a healthy, thriving online community speaks volumes abt. its enduring appeal. And, as somebody else pointed out, even though Papy hasn't done *that* much for the 'after-market' (ok, a couple of really good patches, and the D3D renderer), the game hasn't stood still, thanx to 3rd-party efforts. We now have abt. 60 tracks, from modern ovals to ancient byways (Dundrod & Bremgarten in the works--what's next? Brooklands? Paris-to-Madrid?), and gorgeous graphics improvements, from hi-res cockpits to 3D wheels to ultra-smooth FSAA w. the V5 5500 and frighteningly realistic sound FX. The only other title I can remember in gaming history that had these kind of legs was Falcon 3.0...and we all know what happens if you don't freshen a franchise before its time (F3, Duke Nukem, etc.). So let's hope and pray that the powers that be will realize NASCAR has peaked (enuf! already), and that the time quickly approacheth for GPL 2. --Steve Smith P.S. Csaba Csere won't even return my phone calls these days. I think computers frighten oldtime car guys. Greg Beron <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 00:24:07 GMT, "Stephen Smith" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >--Steve Smith (who wrote "Four-Wheel Drift," the strategy guide thatshipped

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> >with the game) > > > I should have realized you monitored this newsgroup, Steve. I've > been meaning to drop you a note of thanks and appreciation for both > the Strategy Guide and the F2 guide at Alison's site, but now I get to > do it here instead. Very nice work! I recently "rediscovered" the > game now that I have hardware that's better suited for the game and > have just come to appreciate just how thorough both guides are. > > And after all that, I guess I'd better find a stamp for that Car & > Driver subscription form sitting on my desk ;) > > -Greg

"Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote: > It still looks great, and, with the right .wav file, > even sounds right. And which one do you suggest? <g> -- XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXX XXXXXXX XXXXXX XXXXX XXXX XXX XX ==> HiFi/DirtyTwisters <== X 11/14/00 14:28

"Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> writes: > So let's hope and pray that the powers that be will realize NASCAR > has peaked (enuf! already), and that the time quickly approacheth > for GPL 2. Papyrus got to release something after NASCAR 4, and that better not be another NASCAR product. If not GPL 2, pretty please with sugar on top, a certain american/international openwheel series which races on four types of tracks on five different continents :) -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

Help me, my brain isn't working. I only get 3 types of track in that "certain series": -Road course -Street course -Oval Unless you're counting airports (Cleveland) as a separate type? "Olav K. Malmin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > So let's hope and pray that the powers that be will realize NASCAR > > has peaked (enuf! already), and that the time quickly approacheth > > for GPL 2. > > Papyrus got to release something after NASCAR 4, and that better not > be another NASCAR product. If not GPL 2, pretty please with sugar on > top, a certain american/international openwheel series which races on > four types of tracks on five different continents :) > > -- > Olav K. Malmin > remove .spam when replying

"Rob Adams" <[email hidden]> writes: > Help me, my brain isn't working. I only get 3 types of track in that > "certain series": > -Road course > -Street course > -Oval I think they seperate short ovals and superspeedways. Pretty much the same as seperating road courses and street courses. So actually they race on only two types of tracks, ovals and road courses :) -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

"Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:U4fQ5.197268$[email hidden]... "Dundrod & Bremgarten in the works" Dundrod eh ? who is making this track and are there any screnies of it yet? I used to ride with my friends to Dundrod to watch the Ulster GP's (bikes). We used to walk through the pits and have a few words with Joey Dunlop while he worked on his bikes. Needless to say he won most of the many classes he entered. The track is very narrow even by bike standards from what i remember...i cant wait to take a spin down this memory lane :-) -- Cheers Ginger.......................(GPL, Bowt NetterToDo)

>"Olav K. Malmin" <[email hidden]> wrote > Papyrus got to release something after NASCAR 4, and that better not > be another NASCAR product. If not GPL 2, pretty please with sugar on > top, a certain american/international openwheel series which races on > four types of tracks on five different continents :) At the moment it looks obvious that their first title after Nascar Racing 4 will be an expansion pack. We went from NR99 with all WC/BGN/Truck tracks to N3 with WC/BGN tracks and now Nascar Racing 4 will be released with only Winston Cup tracks from all the last reports by Papyrus. It's a done deal that Sierra will be trying to milk their license a little with a N4 Expansion pack. Let's hope for JUST one of them, that would include all BGN and Truck tracks for the 2000 season, and include the new 2001 tracks. Why not add vintage Nascar tracks from previous titles (North Wilkesboro, Hickory, Topeka, etc..) or even redo the fantasy tracks for N2. They can throw all that stuff, it's possible willing the staff and effort. Let's see.. Kansas Speedway Chicagoland Speedway Chicago Motor Speedway Nashville Speedway Nashville Superspeedway South Boston Myrtle Beach Milwaukee Mile Nazareth Speedway Pikes Peak Int. Raceway Gateway Int. Raceway IRP Memphis Motorsports Park Kentucky Speedway Mesa Marin Portland Raceway Evergreen Speedway I would pay 30$ for that with Trucks/BGN with complete physics. The more the better. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

Tyler, all, There will undoubtedly be a N4 expansion pack...first. One might even pray for a NASCAR road-racing pack (NL meets N4); stockers have raced on some great circuits: Bridgehampton, Riverside, Elkhart, etc. My guess is that DK would love to do ICR3, but until the turf war with IRL is over, all you have to do is look at the TV ratings to realize that making this pitch to the suits would be suicide. The "Am"s (Can- and Trans-) are the most likely, in my opinion. The latter because you can carry it forward to the present day, and the former because they were the most powerful road-racing machines ever--superlatives make good packaging blurbs. I'd rule out enduro racing because current online issues would hobble it (I'm sure most of us would race 24 hours at a stretch if we could...with or without AI or human co-drivers), and online racing is Papy's trump card. I proposed Legends of Indianapolis (race against everybody from Ray Harroun to Al Unser, driving everything from Marmon Wasps to Penske Pushrods), but that ain't road racing. The only other likely candidate might be contemporary F1 racing, but the market is totally glutted. If I had to choose, I'd opt for Chaparral sucker cars, tiny titanium Shadows, bellowing McLarens, Amon's shreiking Ferrari, Porsche Panzers, Andretti's ill-fated Honker (we could finally get it right!), the Lotus 30 (ditto), Gurney and Surtees in Lolas, maybe even Tony Deans's little giant-killer 908. Here's looking at *you*, Dave. --Steve Smith Tyler Eaves <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> At issue here is business. Nascar sells. GPL didn't, even though it is > a great game. What I would love to see is ICR3. > > On 14 Nov 2000 19:20:21 +0100, [email hidden] (Olav K. > Malmin) wrote: > > >"Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > >> So let's hope and pray that the powers that be will realize NASCAR > >> has peaked (enuf! already), and that the time quickly approacheth > >> for GPL 2. > > > >Papyrus got to release something after NASCAR 4, and that better not > >be another NASCAR product. If not GPL 2, pretty please with sugar on > >top, a certain american/international openwheel series which races on > >four types of tracks on five different continents :) > > --- > Tyler Eaves

Stephen Smith wrote: > If I had to choose, I'd opt for > Chaparral sucker cars, tiny titanium Shadows, bellowing McLarens, Amon's > shreiking Ferrari, Porsche Panzers, Andretti's ill-fated Honker (we could > finally get it right!), the Lotus 30 (ditto), Gurney and Surtees in Lolas, > maybe even Tony Deans's little giant-killer 908. I'm with you, Steve. I would love to see a Can-Am Legends. Unfortunately, this would be even more obscure than 1967 F1 to the unwashed masses. Dave Ewing -- ***************************************************** David A. Ewing Xilinx Boulder [email hidden] *****************************************************

Obscure or not, having seen them in action, I wouldn't mind having a go at the virtual wheel of one. 9-litre engined cars shaking the ground they move on, must be awesome. Jan. =--- David Ewing wrote...

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> I'm with you, Steve. I would love to see a Can-Am Legends. > Unfortunately, this would be even more obscure than 1967 F1 > to the unwashed masses. > > Dave Ewing > > -- > ***************************************************** > David A. Ewing > Xilinx Boulder [email hidden] > ***************************************************** > > >

On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 19:19:13 GMT, [email hidden] (331253) wrote: >"Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote: > >> It still looks great, and, with the right .wav file, >> even sounds right. > >And which one do you suggest? <g> That can only be one: Sam Doby's Ferrari sound! (www.theuspits.com) His Brabham sound is amazing too... Andre

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[email hidden] (Andre Warringa) wrote: >> And which one do you suggest? <g> > > That can only be one: Sam Doby's Ferrari sound! (www.theuspits.com) > His Brabham sound is amazing too... Just curious, what rpm setting do you have in your ini file? Because I find this sound rather thin and wonder if this could be on a different setting? My app.ini file has this line: [ Engine ] sampleRPM = 5200.000000

Stephen Smith wrote: > The "Am"s (Can- and Trans-) are the most likely, in > my opinion. The latter because you can carry it forward to the present day, > and the former because they were the most powerful road-racing machines > ever--superlatives make good packaging blurbs. I'd give anything to get behind the wheel of a Lola or a Porsche...hell, even a converted F1 March would be fine! Just give us Can-Am!!! Those were some awesome machines and I bet every bit as hard to drive as the '67 GP cars we love...or hate :-) If Papy won't do Can-Am, how about a game based on the 1.5 litre turbo F1 cars of the early 80's? Driving a Brabham with a 1200 horsepower BMW "qualifier" engine sounds like fun, eh? Gary

On Fri, 17 Nov 2000 18:47:15 GMT, [email hidden] wrote:

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>[email hidden] (Andre Warringa) wrote: > >>> And which one do you suggest? <g> >> >> That can only be one: Sam Doby's Ferrari sound! (www.theuspits.com) >> His Brabham sound is amazing too... > >Just curious, what rpm setting do you have in your ini file? >Because I find this sound rather thin and wonder if this could be on a >different setting? My app.ini file has this line: > >[ Engine ] >sampleRPM = 5200.000000

I use the same rpm setting, and I think that the screaming Ferrari engine sounds great... He just released a Lotus sound, which also sounds great, but his best work is his Brabham engine sound (also from the pits). Andre