Re: The Eldred Files - An exchange between Maxx & EP [Long]

WOW!! How do I get involved with this "GPLEGS" thingy? I'm not on GPL ranks, but I would rather work with GPL offline first. I think my PB for Monza is like 1:34:xx or something like that. Don't even ask about Nurb.!!!!! I believe you mentioned this once before, but with this post, It's sounds exciting!! I use GH & GH2 setups and Mostly dro=ive the Cooper! (My favorite car) The other cars (right now), are mostly UnControllable! Any help would be appreciated Just in case: [email hidden] Thanks in advance Bobo88

What follows is an email reply to an earlier email from Eldred, who is still trying to fully grasp and understand what I have said in GPLEGS and the all the other bits of advice he's received over the months. It is posted at my request, and with his permission. I wanted to post it here as a) It could be very useful to others, whether they be frustrated or not and b) having spent a good few hours putting it together, I wanted to share it with a wider audience. Now, I have made a few generalisations here, plus made some assumptions based on, what may be a limited understanding of the facts (apols to Greger If I have mis-represented him). The main aim of this was to give some added information and INSPIRATION to one of GPLs heroes. +47 or not Eldred is a GPL hero, without him, we'd all be a little less wise, he asks the questions that maybe others would like to ask. Anway, please give it a read. I'd be interested in any comments or opinions, I've said before I'm no GPL expert, so if you disagree or have something to add/correct then post here and let me know. Maxx ---------------- Eldred, I was hoping this was going to be an upbeat email, I noticed you took a couple of seconds off your GPLRank. I'll try and respond to your point below : [EP] >In driving some laps around Indy, I've discovered two things:1) I don't know >where to turn in, and 2) I don't know when to unwind the wheel. I compared >my laps to Roland Ehnstrom - I'm nowhere near the apex ot the wall as he is. >His replay and setup was a 52.01 lap. My fastest lap was a 54.05 - and I >promptly crashed next lap. I'm pretty sure there is more than 1 "fast" line at Indy, although I haven't spent a whole lot of time there myself. The key with an Oval is the exit line, getting on the power at the right time, and giving it just enough to move forwards and not creating so much tire squeal that you are scrubbing speed and pushing yourself wider. The next couple of things are entry and mid-corner. Entry is all a question of getting the required amount of speed OFF as quickly as possible, such that you can turn in without unduly unbalancing the car and able to track the inside line (this is my favoured line (i.e. the lo-line) but I am no Indy expert (53.32 in the Eagle). To this end it doesn't matter how much tire squeal you get, as long as it DECELERATION induced tire squeal. Thats is to go fast you need to be doing a high speed into the corner, such that lifting off, brake dab, change down etc. induce this tire squeal, not getting back on the gas and accelerating. The more tire squeal the more the tires are being use to slow the car, therefore deceleration induce tire squeal into the corner is good. One you are in mid-corner, just as on road tracks, you need to induce just a mild amount of tire squeal, say 20%, barely audible really, BUT try and maintain that through the rest of the corner out to the exit. It's very difficult to execute your corner exit such that this tire squeal is maintained and bring you out JUST along the wall, BUT that is what makes a really fast lap. Unwinding the wheel is usually not a big thing, just a 1/4 inch can make a big difference as it might gain you 1 mph, which you then maintain that extra 1mph down the next straight. Now, all that said, then we look at a really fast Indy lap and see the guy getting bags of tire squeal on the exit .. what's the game here then? Well it could be setup, with a more radical diff setup, hard acceleration can bring the back end around, so although it's scrubbing speed it is also steering the car but generally (and this is the same with road course fast laps), the guy has already done all the basics right, got the perfect line, got his braking points and pressure off to a tee, and is now just pushing beyond that, doing what the F1 guys/Indy guys do when theres 3 minutes of qual'ing left, there in 3rd on the grid and really want that pole, they throw caution to the wind and take risks at every braking point, in every corner. You can only do this however if you are a master of your craft, Greger's hotlaps as the absolute best he can do, taking every risk he can, and perhaps failing 9 times out of 10, or maybe even 99 times out of 100. And he has devoted more time and effort to GPL than you or I could ever hope to. [EP] >I also studied Roland's 7:58 lap at the Ring. He >seems to be in TOTAL control of his car at all times. I can't say that. On >the fast downhill sections, I'm just hanging on, and the rest of the lap is >pretty similar. At any moment, I'm liable to throw it off the track. Well I am still at the stage when I feel I am just hanging on, but maybe if you saw my replay you'd say I looked pretty much in control. It's so difficult to tell. Generally, if you can do an 8:00 ring lap when going for it, you can do an 8:05-8:08 without taking too many risks and driving "smoothly". It's such a well used word, but so difficult to get across it's meaning when related to driving a race car. It's probably more a frame of mind, "unhurried" would be another word you could use, but only in relation to your state of mind. You absolutely MUST hurry to be quick, you absolutely must brake at the right point, not too early, not too late, JUST RIGHT. You absolutely MUST use all of the track, which means you are inches from falling off BUT, you must do this with an ATTITUDE that you are IN CONTROL, even if you are not, if you are going through corners and frightening yourself, you are going to lose it, if you brake with DOUBT that you are going to make it, you often won't. In order to do these things, you have to have ABILITY and to get ABILITY you must practice doing things the right way, realise that to go faster than you are now, you don't have to brake later or take more chances. The most relaxed I've been in real race car is when I've put in my best laps relaxed in the sense that I felt at ease for the whole lap, never in danger, invulnerable almost. Sometimes this was whilst leading by some margin and just driving for enjoyment, others was when chasing, especially if I'd been punted off, or had a bad start, my "anger" at myself (or the other guy) meant that I wasn't focused on the mechanics of driving anymore, I knew I could drive quickly. I think you are in a situation (based on what I saw in your replays and from your comments) that you don't have the confidence to KNOW you can run 6 laps, say within 1 sec of your PB without calling on immense concentration and, in your mind, taking risks. You absolutely cannot drive like this, and must do something about it. I'm convinced you have the ability, no question. You have information with GPLEGS of the correct techniques to go faster (not to catch Greger but 0.0 is quite possible). I had 10 guys take GPLEGS who where -ve rank and most of them have still found stuff in GPLEGS that gave them an improvement). You must have targets but those target have got to be realistic, I still have targets, 5 for each formula in fact. In F1 I am -17.23 at the moment and my targets are -17.42/-17.84/-19.01/-19.19 & -19.29 Not very challenging, I have had bigger targets in the past, T5 was always 0.0, now that just a memory. With the above, I get to feel good about myself more often. Although I have these time targets I don't fire up GPL with a view to improve my times per se. I run it to improve my driving, improve my technique, get this corner done better, feel more comfortable etc. etc. but with the knowledge that they all mean better times. [EP] >I tried to follow the suggestion to start a 5 car race, and stay with the >leaders. I can't do it. The first 2 times, I crashed in the first corner. >The next time, I made it to the second straight, then crashed. I've been >watching replays and driving laps for almost 3 hours. I've driven Monza, >Watkins, Nurburgring, and Indy. If you still feel unsure about the line, then watch a replay, AND run a compare lap with RA (replay Analyser) and check you are about right. I wouldn't suggest AI racing at all at your stage. I think you still need to alter your technique and prove to yourself it works, it's the ONLY way it will sink in. I can tell you all day long not to brake late etc. etc. but it goes against everything you've become convinced of. Forget anyones times who is more than a second a lap quicker than you (5 secs at the ring, 2 secs at Spa), they are your targets for now, just to get closer to them. I have one guy, he was +90, he is now +20, he brakes REALLY early and gently yet puts in some amazing times. Once you are happy and confident with your technique, then an AI race can help, as it de-focuses your mind from the mechanics of driving, by this time, YOU CAN DRIVE, you've been through this corner 100s of times, you know you can brake here, with no possibility of locking up or not slowing down in time, you know exactly where to turn and how much gas to BALANCE the car through the corner, and you know where the exit road is and can use it all. All sports are the same, in Golf, when you start thinking about your swing you'll start making mistakes ... use the Force Luke! [EP] >In one of your messages, you said people improved when they stopped using the >groove as their racing line. First, it seems that most of the hotlaps *do* >drive on the groove. Second, if that's not the line, then where IS it??? 2 things, 1) The racing groove is not created by the centre of the car, it's created by the loaded tire, that is what happens in real-life and is what Papy intended to present. 2) It is wrong in some places (i.e. it isn't the best line through the corner). Also in some places it's impossible to place the loaded wheel on the line as the other wheel would hit a curb. Most hotlaps I've seen do stay very close to the groove (where it is correct) BUT it is on/towards the weighted tire. WG is a good example, follow the groove (get it under the car) through the Esses and you can forget about a quick lap, compared to the correct line, this can make .5 to 1 second difference on the lap. Another thing to bear in mind is that the really fast guys use very radical setups (I'm talking specificaly about the Diff Settings - Ramp Angles+Clutches). I don't know if you've tried any GH2 setups but these demand a totally different driving technique, they feel like nothing I've experienced myself and I simply cannot drive them, but given enough practice you can make them work. GH didn't start off with these setups, his GH setups are fairly conventional and driveable by most people. He "mastered" these first and GRADUALLY moved more and more towards his GH2 setups. It just so happens that a combination of these setups and his mastery of the techniques required to drive them, result in some phenominal lap times in GPL. I would absolutely not recommend them however for someone like yourself, or others who have not mastered the basic techniques and principals of race car driving, which if applied correctly and mastered can get you well into -ve GPLRank territoty. The point of this is that it alters the whole dynamic of the car, brake with the wheel 1/4 inch to the left and the car turns sharp left, give it a blip of gas while turning right and it turn more right etc. etc. this means they do often use a slightly "different" line, they often turn in later/sharper and take a wider line out which they can correct with extra gas. All this is worth knowing but shouldn't be entering your head this side of a sub-zero rank. [EP] >You also said in one part that I needed to be on the throttle entering the >corners. But then you also said that me slowing, then getting on the >throttle before entering was wrong. Again, confusion reigns within my >mind.<g> Confusion is not good. What you were doing in the replays was (for example). Approach T1 at 150mph, brake down to 80mph, off the brake, turn in then just after turn in accelerate through the corner, reaching 90mph at apex, 110mph on exit. What you should have been doing was :- e.g. (1) Approach T1 at 150mph, brake down to 90mph, ease off brake as you apply a little throttle to balance the car (just enough so it does not decelerate) into the apex which you reach at 92 mph, if you exit the same way you will likely exit at 112mph and carry that 2mph down the rest of the straight which translate into maybe half a second or more. e.g. (2) When you get really adept at this you can even enter the corner a little quicker and use trail-braking WITH GAS to take some of the braking into the apex. you enter at 95mph, clip the apex still at maybe an extra 1mph then maybe take a little more exit road allowing you to exit at 114mph, which again you carry and extra 4mph down the rest of the straight, and we are now talking seconds off the entire lap. You cannot go to (2) without first having mastered (1) and with what you were doing in the replays, you absolutely cannot improve further. Lastly, I'm confused at the fact that the hotlappers seem to be able to brake LATER than I do, but you've been suggesting to brake *earlier*. I must be totally missing the point here. It seems counter-productive... No it's not. If your talking about GH and Co. they use these diff setups which "can" give some extra braking power (only slight), plus they are applying just enough brake to slow the car at the maximum, and not lock up. This is incredibly difficult in GPL and in real-life. Most people either bop up-and-down locking up and releasing etc. others will apply somewhere around the pressure required to drag the brake on the freely revolving wheel to slow the wheel down. What the braking expert will do is apply enough pressure to drag the brake to such an extent that it slows the wheel enough for it to revolve more SLOWLY than the car, so in effect it is PARTIALLY SKIDDING. Very much like the lateral tire squeal you get in mid-corner. I have seen examples where the car is travelling at say 100mph under braking but the wheels are travelling about 20mph, the friction/drag caused by this difference gives you excellent braking effect HOWEVER, once the wheel locks it all goes and you are almost LAUNCHED forward as the resistance goes away in an instant. GH and others can do this, not on every corner of every lap but just occasionally, the times they do this on all or most of the corners are the replays they send to Schubi's and what you are trying to compare yourself to. Lets forget these real hotshoes and concentrate on the zero rankers, many of them don't know this and have only every done it on a few corners, by accident often, more so than design. Yes they may brake a little later than you but, assuming you adopt the GPLEGS principal, they will still be entering and exiting the corner at the same speed as you. You brake at 250yds, they brake at 200yds, you reach yds at the same speed. I'm no mathematician, but assuming your brake pressure was sufficient just to retard the car to the required speed on entry you would have lost very little time, I'd be surprised if it was more than a 10th, OK it all adds up so even if you lost a second a lap to this 0.0 guy, you'd still be into around +20 territory (allowing for the ring). Thing is, many of the 0.0 guys are still doing other things wrong, scrubbing off exit speed, not using all the track etc. ALSO, because they are braking later, they increase the chances of locking up, so less laps count. Plus it is much more difficult to gauge HEAVY braking than MEDIUM BRAKING. If you have to brake heavily at a particular point on the track a) chances are, at 130mph you'll never hit the same exact spot twice, If your early you'll slow too much, theres so little margin for error and you'll be so much on the edge that you'll unsettle the car by lifting from very heavy brakes and the corner will be compromised, maybe only a little, but that 10th advantage has gone and more besides. If you brake a little too late, then the corner is history, if you manage to keep it on the track you'll lose many 10ths, plus it's another blow to your confidence and increases the stress levels and doubt next time around. Now, you, the Moderate braker, braking at the 250yd line, doesn't matter if it's 260 or 240, if it's early you just moderate the brake a little further, if late, you just apply a little more pressure, it so much easier to modulate a 90% situation than 100% situation, and doing so will not unsettle the car as much. You end up doing 100 laps, still with a few mistakes of course, but you get into a groove and put in a really nice, smooth, fast lap, say a 1:30. The other guy does 100laps, 20 Shift-Rs, maybe a lucky lap of 1:29.5. He comes away thinking "I can't go any faster" and "In order to maybe get a few extra 10th, I'm gonna have to do another 100laps and hope for a good one" You come away thinking "I can go faster", "just a few more laps, just to get through T4 better and use all the track", "just to get closer to the curb on the entry to T7 so the line through the corner is a bit shallower". I just need another 6-12 laps!! Yes, you might also be able to move your braking point 10yds up the track and eventually, when your confidence and technique are such, you can brake at the 200yd mark WITH CONFIDENCE! [EP] >Bottom line - I can't seem to put the car exactly where I want it, and when I >want it. I honestly don't know why. I can't believe I'm this stupid with >this... Your not, you've got into bad driving habits, but even worse, bad physcological habits. You can choose to be a "+47 guy who can't go faster" or a +60 guy who is just now starting to get to grips with the techniques and attitudes required to be a zero ranker. In other words, forget your PBs, they were earnt using the wrong techniques and lately perhaps, in the wrong frame of mind. I'd say that if you can try and take on board what I've said above, and really try and implement them, AND you can get within say 102% of your current PBs you are well on the road. 102%! yes, it's well over a second at most tracks, BUT can you confidently say that using your current techniques etc, that you could do this? Once you've done 102%, then you can feel good about yourself, move the bar to 101%, then 100%, then ... well then you start really feeling good about yourself and your ranking starts coming down. Eldred. I hope the above helps, please feel free to write to me at any stage and with any GPL problems you have, if you really try these techniques but are still struggling, send me some replays etc. etc. Also, a favour, I'd like to post the bulk of this reply to r.a.s. and want to get your response to that. Don't get disheartened, as I said to Jens earlier, who is a bit frustrated at the moment (Yes, he should be so lucky heh!) I said that, "from desperation comes inspiration", sounds like you are there my friend :) Cheers Maxx

OK, I know the last ones probably took you half an hour to read, and you'd much rather be "playing" GPL but before leaving this, I thought I'd post the follow-up email and reply to Eldred. So here goes :- -------------- Eldred, >I can understand about 90% of the stuff you mention. >The other 10% I don't understand, but I trust your skill >and judgement. The problem is, I can't *do* it. OK, if you beleive you can't do it, just try, move your brake points back about 10 car lengths, concentrate on staying as for over to theleft (if the upcoming corner is a right-hander) as you can do safely ease onto the brake (thats not to say take a second to get on it, treat it like a trigger in a shootout, you need to fire before the other guy, but if you snatch at it, and miss, your dead) firm and fast, but not rushed) If you feel you are slowing too much ease back off the brake, justbefore you tuen in have your foot resting on the gas, maybe giving it 5-10%, as you turn in maintain that gas, and if need be, give it a little more, enough to get some tire squeal. LOOK UP, look where youwant to be on the exit, don't wait until you are at the apex to do this. Just LOOK and AIM, giving it as much gas as you can but not too much todrive the car off line. Try and make it EASY ON YOURSELF. I suggest trying this at somewhere like Silverstone, Zandvoort takesa different set of skills, Spa is too long, Mexico too twisty, Kyalami has awful camber (bit not bad to try), Monza (has been driven to death, still OK to try tho). Rouen, too much can get in the way of a good lap, Mosport, very tricky, takes 20 laps to get settled, too long. Watkins Glenn is a good one, you can take it easy here and still do a 1:06, take another look at my example replay. Monaco/Ring, forget these for now. >I guess that's the frustration. We still have one more >race in our Cobrha league, and I quit my other league... >So, I guess I'm free to drive laps and tear up cars<G>. >So, you really think I can get into -ve numbers? >I'm glad YOU have the confidence... :) Well, -ve is going to take a lot of work, but you have no instrinsic lack of ability that would stop you. Driving the GPLEGS way is not only faster (once mastered) it is also "easier", well, no it's not really, it just feels easier once it sinks in and you start to work with the techniques and the frame of mind. You will be able to drive more consistently as you are taking away and enormous area of RISK .. Braking. [EP] >I suppose you could post this to r.a.s. >Most of the people there already *know* I suck as a driver, >so it shouldn't matter<g>. Oh dear :( I have 80 guys who have a GPLRank, out of the 136 that have taken GPLEGS. Of those 80, you are number 37, that means there are 43 guys who would love to have a 47.51 handicap. I suspect of the 56 that don't have a GPLRank, most of them would be much higher than yours, had they driven all the circuits. Where you are NOW is not bad at all, but where you go from here is down to you. You might not make 0.0 but you sure can drive faster and more consistently, which means race wins, or at least top 6 finishes, and improved GPLRank. I think the reason you are well liked is BECAUSE you are struggling with GPL, like 650 others on GPLRank (who are behind you), and 100s more who haven't (or maybe daren't) post to GPLRank. I'm getting to sound like Tony Robbins here, so I'll close up for now. If you want some sample laps, let me know, I'm not talking Schubi candidtae laps here now Eldred, you will learn more from the guys who's 1 sec faster, than the guys who is 4 seconds faster. Please try not to get disheartened, you SHOULD find that adapting your technique will also help in other sims i.e. GP3, the same concepts apply but are really called upon to the max in GPL. Also, you'll be quick out of the blocks with N4 and WSC when they come out. Keep the Faith .. Use the Force ... Maxx

Bobo, It's on the way to you. Maxx On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:46:58 -0500, "Bobo88" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>WOW!! > >How do I get involved with this "GPLEGS" thingy? > >I'm not on GPL ranks, but I would rather work with GPL >offline first. I think my PB for Monza is like 1:34:xx or >something like that. Don't even ask about Nurb.!!!!! > >I believe you mentioned this once before, but with this >post, It's sounds exciting!! I use GH & GH2 setups >and Mostly dro=ive the Cooper! (My favorite car) > >The other cars (right now), are mostly UnControllable! > >Any help would be appreciated > >Just in case: [email hidden] > >Thanks in advance >Bobo88 > >

Whoopps Maxx. I hadd yourr filee butt II seemm too havee onlyy savedd thee textt filee. Cann youu resendd itt?? thankss. davee henriee "Maxx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > >

On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 22:14:28 GMT, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote: > Whoopps Maxx. I hadd yourr filee butt II seemm too havee onlyy savedd >thee textt filee. Cann youu resendd itt?? thankss. >davee henriee Cold? ;) /Magnus GPLRank hcp: -27.12

Decaf Dave, decaf!! ;-) Jan. =--- Dave Henrie wrote... > Whoopps Maxx. I hadd yourr filee butt II seemm too havee > onlyy savedd thee textt filee. Cann youu resendd itt?? > thankss. davee henriee

I'd do something about those shakey hands Dave before venturing out on the track :-) GPLEGS resend on it's way Maxx On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 22:14:28 GMT, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> Whoopps Maxx. I hadd yourr filee butt II seemm too havee onlyy savedd >thee textt filee. Cann youu resendd itt?? thankss. >davee henriee >"Maxx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> >> >

> >[EP] >>I suppose you could post this to r.a.s. >>Most of the people there already *know* I suck as a driver, >>so it shouldn't matter<g>. > EP Just to let you know that as a newby GPLer (+744) and having recently received GPLEGS (Thanks Maxx) I read with interest your emails. You are asking questions I haven't even thought of yet! All the Best Lee -- Lee Ward E-mail: [email hidden]

I've never heard of GPLEGS. What is it? Is it only for +0.00 GPLRank, or for -0.00 GPLRank too? -Dirt- **Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for valuable cash prizes**

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> I'd do something about those shakey hands Dave before venturing out > on the track :-) > > GPLEGS resend on it's way > > Maxx > > On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 22:14:28 GMT, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > > Whoopps Maxx. I hadd yourr filee butt II seemm too havee onlyy

savedd

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> >thee textt filee. Cann youu resendd itt?? thankss. > >davee henriee > >"Maxx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:[email hidden]... > >> > >> > > > >

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

On Wed, 15 Nov 2000 03:37:30 GMT, Chris Cavin <[email hidden]> wrote: >I've never heard of GPLEGS. What is it? Is it only for +0.00 GPLRank, >or for -0.00 GPLRank too? > >-Dirt- Chris, I checked your rank and at -37.69, hopefully you will know and do everything that is in GPLEGS and possibly more besides. However you may find something in there of use. There are 13 -ve rankers who have taken it, and the two I've heard from have found it useful. I am working on an advanced package covering advanced techniques, possibly some info on setups (not technical) and maybe race-craft. But, only being a GPL user for 6 months I am still practicing these techniques etc. myself and until I can do them succesfully, and demonstrate them (which is really what GPLEGS is all about) I can't really cover them properly. All those who have taken GPLEGS will go on a mailing list and will have access to the advanced package and odd updates etc. as soon as they come out. It started as a response to Eldred and mainly only discussed and "added to" on r.a.s. but as there are others using it that don't read r.a.s. so I need to use a better medium for later additions (although I will post notice of them here as well). I just checked the GPLRanks of the 80 who have one, and they go from +400 to -34, so theres a fair mix of abilities there. I have got very good feedback from the -ve rankers who correspond (and +ve guys) and am learning new stuff myself. I'm keen that it's a 2-way street, not just me sending out stuff. I'd be very glad to have you aboard Chris, whether you just look at it and discard it and we never "speak" again. The mailing list thing will be via eGroups, so you can easily unsubscribe. Anyway, if you'd like to take a look at it just : mailto:[email hidden] And I'll send it to you. Maxx

In article <[email hidden]>, Lee Ward <[email hidden]> writes:

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>>[EP] >>>I suppose you could post this to r.a.s. >>>Most of the people there already *know* I suck as a driver, >>>so it shouldn't matter<g>. >> > >EP > >Just to let you know that as a newby GPLer (+744) and having recently >received GPLEGS (Thanks Maxx) I read with interest your emails. You are >asking questions I haven't even thought of yet!

Well, I've been fighting with GPL for 2 years now... :) Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +49.12 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Just thought I'd chime in with my support for what Maxx is doing with GPLEGS - I received the package a few weeks ago, and just started really applying myself since this past weekend. I've read all the text files, and finally watched the included Glen videos on Monday. The F2 Glen laps really make it quite clear that in GPL, just as in real life, a quick lap doesn't necessarily LOOK quick from inside the car. What Maxx is "preaching" are a lot of the same things that Jackie Stewart talked about in his book ("Principles of Performance Driving") - smoothness and technique are the first steps, which you can then use as a base for more speed later on. If you have a solid foundation in technique, you're better able to take things to a new level on a REAL hotlap. I've spent 3 of the last four evenings lapping the Glen in an F2 Brabham (with one of Alison's X-files setups), just concentrating on line and smoothness. I've been impressed with my speed improvement - best laps have dropped from low 1:12s to mid 1:10s (my best ever F1 lap is a 1:06.7 in the Ferrari) - but even more so with my consistency. Last night, I turned 20 laps (including my out lap), and 15 of those were under 1:13, 10 of those were under 1:12, and 3 of those were under 1:11. The rest were two laps to warm the tires, and three laps with brief offs/spins (ie, on the gas too soon/too much coming off the Loop or the 90). I'm also becoming much more consistent and sensitive on the brakes, not locking up nearly as much as I used to. I'm still a few 10ths off Maxx's best time from the replays, and I know that I'm losing most of that in the left-hand portion of the Esses (still can't get the line + gas equation quite right it seems), but the speed is coming much easier than it used to. I'm finally really appreciating the training usefulness of the F2 cars - they're close enough to the F1s to be a real challenge, but not nearly as "knife-edge", with an extra heart-beat to catch an error before it really gets out of hand. Maxx, thanks again for such a useful training tool - I'll soon start lapping at the other tracks and working towards an F2 GPLRank, then on to the F1s. Rick

<snip> >Anyway, if you'd like to take a look at it just : > >mailto:[email hidden] > >And I'll send it to you. Maxx, congrats, you are becoming allmost a GPL Guru now :) Your philosophy of racing is a very interesting read, even for the hotshots I think. Why don't you put the file on a website instead of emailing it to everybody? It has been a while since I received the file from you, and I wonder if you updated it lately. If so, please mail it to me too: [email hidden] and remove the _noooooo_spam ofcourse. Or even better, put it on a website :) Thanks, Andre >Maxx

On Thu, 16 Nov 2000 10:23:27 GMT, [email hidden] (Andre Warringa) wrote: >Maxx, congrats, you are becoming allmost a GPL Guru now :) >Your philosophy of racing is a very interesting read, even for the >hotshots I think. Well, I'm very happy to be one of the very many that contribute to this excellent community we have. >Why don't you put the file on a website instead of emailing it to >everybody? It has been a while since I received the file from you, and >I wonder if you updated it lately. If so, please mail it to me too: I will be in due course, but really want to present it better and lay it out in a more organised manner. I'm also looking to build on it with an advanced level, general setup advice and maybe race-craft. Apart from Elded I have had some great feedback from others and want some way of passing this information out. What I have planned to go along with the web site (or sooner) is to use an eGroup to disseminate information, updates, tips etc. I can add all current takers to that list and anyone picking up GPLEGS from elsewhere could join the list if they wished. Anyway, the main cahnges to GPLEGS since it first came out has been the inclusion of the text I posted here about using Replay Analyser/Overhead Cameras/F10 view/Hi Cockpit views etc., plus a lot of typo corrections. You probably read the additional post, but it's only a small text file so I'll send it to you anyway. Maxx >[email hidden]

In article <[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes: >Might I jump in here as well and make a suggestion? > >Do you use a FF-wheel Eldred? -if so have you tried turning down the effects >strenght a little? No FF. I'm using a TSW2mod. Someone asked me that before, too... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +49.12 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <iW1R5.98$[email hidden]>, "Klinn" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Hi Eldred - Here's a maybe-unorthodox suggestion, admittedly from someone >who isn't too far up the ladder (GPL Rank +36.88) from you but anyway... I >assume you're one of the dedicated GPL types who has long ago turned off all >the driving aids, right? Well, why not try using the automatic shifting >again? That's what I've been doing. Yes, there are times when the damn thing >will downshift just when you don't want it to, and it can't short-shift when >that might be handy, but the (possible) advantage is that it's one less >thing for you to think about. That way, I find it easier to concentrate on >the correct line, entry speed, etc. And sometimes it provides really quick >feedback on how well you took that last corner - since it always shifts the >same way you can judge those shift points v.s. the scenery, i.e. "Hey, this >time I got into 5th _before_ the hedge ends, so that line/speed I just took >must have worked a little better." Or you've managed to keep your speed >through a corner just a little higher - you can tell because now it's not >automatically downshifting. > >This is just an idea - I'm not really sure if it's a good one or not. I may >be developing some bad habits. Any comments or suggestions are most welcome. >I'm only 'negative' at two tracks - Monza and the Glen, so I've got a ways >to go...

Interesting... Obviously, it will be slower, but it would provide a better guage on revs entering/exiting corners... Thanks. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +49.12 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Might I jump in here as well and make a suggestion? Do you use a FF-wheel Eldred? -if so have you tried turning down the effects strenght a little? Quite a while back I was struggling with consistency... not that I was making more errors than anyone else of comparable talent, it was just I wasn't able to "get it back" as often as they did. Until I showed a friend (ex-RL racer) GPL and my FF-wheel setup. His quote was "that's amazing... the effect is overdone, but amazing nonetheless" -"Oh", I said, "you can adjust that". So we spent some time fiddling with it untill it felt "realistic" to him, which turned out to be at 80% of the level I'd initially set. Since then my consistency has vastly improved. Obviously, neither I nor my friend have ever driven a real '67 GP car, so I can't say I've got it right, but the virtual ones are not as unruly as they used to be. For reference, my settings: LWFF control panel: Overall: 80% Spring: 100% Damper:30% Core.ini: [ Joy ] allow_force_feedback = 1 force_feedback_damping = 8.000000 force_feedback_latency = 0.005000 max_steering_torque = 350.000000 Now what I can't figure out is why that same friend, having taken to GPL like a duck to water on my rig and owning a Celeron 566/TNT2 computer hasn't bought a wheel/pedal combo and the game yet!! ;-) Jan. =--- EldredP wrote...

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> > Well, I've been fighting with GPL for 2 years now... :) > > Eldred > -- > Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPL hcp. +49.12 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Hi Eldred - Here's a maybe-unorthodox suggestion, admittedly from someone who isn't too far up the ladder (GPL Rank +36.88) from you but anyway... I assume you're one of the dedicated GPL types who has long ago turned off all the driving aids, right? Well, why not try using the automatic shifting again? That's what I've been doing. Yes, there are times when the damn thing will downshift just when you don't want it to, and it can't short-shift when that might be handy, but the (possible) advantage is that it's one less thing for you to think about. That way, I find it easier to concentrate on the correct line, entry speed, etc. And sometimes it provides really quick feedback on how well you took that last corner - since it always shifts the same way you can judge those shift points v.s. the scenery, i.e. "Hey, this time I got into 5th _before_ the hedge ends, so that line/speed I just took must have worked a little better." Or you've managed to keep your speed through a corner just a little higher - you can tell because now it's not automatically downshifting. This is just an idea - I'm not really sure if it's a good one or not. I may be developing some bad habits. Any comments or suggestions are most welcome. I'm only 'negative' at two tracks - Monza and the Glen, so I've got a ways to go... ...Klinn [ http://SIMplyRACING.freewebsites.com/ ] "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Well, I've been fighting with GPL for 2 years now... :) > > Eldred

On Thu, 16 Nov 2000 15:59:17 -0500, "Rick Baumhauer" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Just thought I'd chime in with my support for what Maxx is doing with >GPLEGS - I received the package a few weeks ago, and just started really >applying myself since this past weekend.[snip]

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>I've spent 3 of the last four evenings lapping the Glen in an F2 Brabham >(with one of Alison's X-files setups), just concentrating on line and >smoothness. I've been impressed with my speed improvement - best laps have >dropped from low 1:12s to mid 1:10s (my best ever F1 lap is a 1:06.7 in the >Ferrari) - but even more so with my consistency. Last night, I turned 20 >laps (including my out lap), and 15 of those were under 1:13, 10 of those >were under 1:12, and 3 of those were under 1:11.

Your support and involvement are very much welcomed Rick and I'm really pleased things are coming together for you. As I mentioned in my original post to Eldred, achieving a level of consistency is not just beneficial for racing, it also fosters a different mind-set, a level of confidence that takes a lot of the stress and doubt out of running training laps and racing.

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>I'm still a few 10ths off Maxx's best time from the replays, and I know that >I'm losing most of that in the left-hand portion of the Esses (still can't >get the line + gas equation quite right it seems), but the speed is coming >much easier than it used to. I'm finally really appreciating the training >usefulness of the F2 cars - they're close enough to the F1s to be a real >challenge, but not nearly as "knife-edge", with an extra heart-beat to catch >an error before it really gets out of hand.

Very good point Rick, also you will find some excellent F2 racing on VROC especially the VROC-F2 club (www.vroc.net) which is a great place to learn good racing skills and have a lot of fun into the bargain. >Maxx, thanks again for such a useful training tool - I'll soon start lapping >at the other tracks and working towards an F2 GPLRank, then on to the F1s. If you've been runing F1s before and have some PBs already, you might like to try running a Few F1 laps on the same tracks as you've just done the F2 laps. You may be surprised how much quicker you are without appearing to do anything different. Maxx

Klinn, Thats an EXCELLENT suggestion, in real-racing the rev-counter is king, you measure your effictiveness through a corner by the readout on the rev-counter at a certain point after the corner. You can do this in GPL but as the rev-counter divisions are not quite as distinct as the real thing, you can't be that precise, using the auto box should give you that bit of extra precision. It also removes another variable from the many that make up a complete lap. Great suggestion and I will add that to future updates of GPLEGS. Maxx On Thu, 16 Nov 2000 22:49:14 -0500, "Klinn" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Hi Eldred - Here's a maybe-unorthodox suggestion, admittedly from someone >who isn't too far up the ladder (GPL Rank +36.88) from you but anyway... I >assume you're one of the dedicated GPL types who has long ago turned off all >the driving aids, right? Well, why not try using the automatic shifting >again? That's what I've been doing. Yes, there are times when the damn thing >will downshift just when you don't want it to, and it can't short-shift when >that might be handy, but the (possible) advantage is that it's one less >thing for you to think about. That way, I find it easier to concentrate on >the correct line, entry speed, etc. And sometimes it provides really quick >feedback on how well you took that last corner - since it always shifts the >same way you can judge those shift points v.s. the scenery, i.e. "Hey, this >time I got into 5th _before_ the hedge ends, so that line/speed I just took >must have worked a little better." Or you've managed to keep your speed >through a corner just a little higher - you can tell because now it's not >automatically downshifting. > >This is just an idea - I'm not really sure if it's a good one or not. I may >be developing some bad habits. Any comments or suggestions are most welcome. >I'm only 'negative' at two tracks - Monza and the Glen, so I've got a ways >to go... > > ...Klinn > [ http://SIMplyRACING.freewebsites.com/ ] > >"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> >> Well, I've been fighting with GPL for 2 years now... :) >> >> Eldred > >

I agree with Jan 110% here. Not just for correcting the car quickly but also FF effects are not always 100% in synch with what is really happening with the car. You can play around with the latency in core.ini but I doubt it will be 100% right in 100% of circumstances (i.e. fast v. slow corner, online racing etc.). You will react to feel, much quicker than you will to vision and if these are even slightly out of synch you'll be compromising your performance. My degree of "Force" is now about 20% of what it was originally, partly to counteract the above, but also with usage I can now feel these forces at a much lower level. Yes, I bang it up full when friends come around so they can feel the incredible realism, and yes, at higher forces you really feel like you are turning a big heavy car, but it makes delicate control at speed very difficult. As I recall you did not have an FF wheel anyway (TSW as I recall). I did say some experience on an FF wheel would be good for you, to feel the forces being generated by what you are doing with the car. For others reading this, just try turning down the forces a notch or two (ideally in your wheel control panel) and try and get to the stage where you can just feel them. I've found, incidentally MORE feedback, and more subtle effects on these lower force settings, as I think the higher forces mask the more subtle ones. Interested if other have found similar. Maxx On Fri, 17 Nov 2000 12:11:31 +0100, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Might I jump in here as well and make a suggestion? > >Do you use a FF-wheel Eldred? -if so have you tried turning down the effects >strenght a little? > >Quite a while back I was struggling with consistency... not that I was >making more errors than anyone else of comparable talent, it was just I >wasn't able to "get it back" as often as they did. Until I showed a friend >(ex-RL racer) GPL and my FF-wheel setup. His quote was "that's amazing... >the effect is overdone, but amazing nonetheless" -"Oh", I said, "you can >adjust that". So we spent some time fiddling with it untill it felt >"realistic" to him, which turned out to be at 80% of the level I'd initially >set. Since then my consistency has vastly improved. Obviously, neither I nor >my friend have ever driven a real '67 GP car, so I can't say I've got it >right, but the virtual ones are not as unruly as they used to be. >

In article <Q%yR5.876$[email hidden]>, "Klinn" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Hi Eldred - Will it really be slower? That is, is there a handicap built >into the program which decreases your car's performance when using the >auto-shift? The few times that I've tried it, I've been too erratic to >notice. > > ...Klinn > >"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> >> Interesting... >> Obviously, it will be slower, but it would provide a better guage on revs >> entering/exiting corners... >> Thanks. >> >> Eldred

Yes, it takes longer for the auto transmission to shift than it would to shift it yourself. For tracks like Monza and Silverstone, it's about a 1.5 - 2 second difference in lap times for me... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +49.12 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"Maxx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > My degree of "Force" is now about 20% of what it was originally, > partly to counteract the above, but also with usage I can now > feel these forces at a much lower level. Maxx I believe you have a Force RS wheel. I was curious as to what settings you used for FF in core.ini and in the game controllers control panel. Could you enlighten me? Cheers Phil -- F1 GPL Handicap: +3.77 secs F2 GPL Handicap: +118.01 secs Currently running in the F2 Festival League at http://www.geocities.com/f2_festival and Divison 4 of the UKGPL at http://www.ukgpl.com

Hi Eldred - Will it really be slower? That is, is there a handicap built into the program which decreases your car's performance when using the auto-shift? The few times that I've tried it, I've been too erratic to notice. ...Klinn "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > Interesting... > Obviously, it will be slower, but it would provide a better guage on revs > entering/exiting corners... > Thanks. > > Eldred

Klinn wrote: > > Hi Eldred - Will it really be slower? That is, is there a handicap built > into the program which decreases your car's performance when using the > auto-shift? The few times that I've tried it, I've been too erratic to > notice. According to Papy there is, I can't remember exactly who said it though Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "Mountain climbing, auto racing and bullfighting are the only true sports...all others are games." --Ernest Hemingway--

On Sat, 18 Nov 2000 15:12:23 -0000, "Phil Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Maxx > >I believe you have a Force RS wheel. I was curious as to what settings you >used for FF in core.ini and in the game controllers control panel. Could >you enlighten me? Phil, I think we are on the same settings in core.ini as I recall here they are anyway. I used to have a much stronger setting but switched to these a couple of months ago. I have since lowered the spring setting in the ACT Labs properties to 70% (partly as I recall you had mentioned lowering this), and have since turned the overall device gain down to 70%. I think it's right down as low as it can go now, whilst still providing useful feedback. The subtle forces I spoke of, are when the car is drifting, feels like it's on ice until you feel the grip come back. Damper gain is 0% (I used to have 100%!) [ Joy ] allow_force_feedback = 1 ; force_feedback_latency = 0.02 ; force_feedback_damping = 2.000000 ; max_steering_torque = 200.000000 ; Maxx

Yow! That's a big difference. I guess I should set aside some time and learn how to shift for myself. <on the phone> "Yeah boss? I won't *cough* *cough* be able to make it in today. *cough* What? That noise in the background? Oh that's just the neighbour's car..." ...Klinn [ http://SIMplyRACING.freewebsites.com ] "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Yes, it takes longer for the auto transmission to shift than it would toshift > it yourself. For tracks like Monza and Silverstone, it's about a 1.5 - 2 > second difference in lap times for me... > > Eldred

14:1... I drop down to 12:1 for Monaco and go up to 16:1 for really fast tracks and ovals. Low speed steering hack enabled and linearity slider all the way to left, BTW. I never cease to be amazed how setup, driving style and hardware combine to make a car that handles very nicely indeed on your system a dog on someone else's. What exactly do you mean by "weaving"? -Unstable in a straight line, or taking too long to settle after a steering change/upset? Jan. =--- Michael Horton wrote... > Jan for kicks I tried your settings. They seem not bad but I > find I'm weaving all over the damn road. What steering ratio > are you using (on average)? > > Mike >

Jan for kicks I tried your settings. They seem not bad but I find I'm weaving all over the damn road. What steering ratio are you using (on average)? Mike "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Might I jump in here as well and make a suggestion? > > Do you use a FF-wheel Eldred? -if so have you tried turning down theeffects

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> strenght a little? > > Quite a while back I was struggling with consistency... not that I was > making more errors than anyone else of comparable talent, it was just I > wasn't able to "get it back" as often as they did. Until I showed a friend > (ex-RL racer) GPL and my FF-wheel setup. His quote was "that's amazing... > the effect is overdone, but amazing nonetheless" -"Oh", I said, "you can > adjust that". So we spent some time fiddling with it untill it felt > "realistic" to him, which turned out to be at 80% of the level I'd

initially > set. Since then my consistency has vastly improved. Obviously, neither Inor

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> my friend have ever driven a real '67 GP car, so I can't say I've got it > right, but the virtual ones are not as unruly as they used to be. > > For reference, my settings: > > LWFF control panel: > > Overall: 80% > Spring: 100% > Damper:30% > > Core.ini: > > [ Joy ] > allow_force_feedback = 1 > force_feedback_damping = 8.000000 > force_feedback_latency = 0.005000 > max_steering_torque = 350.000000 > > Now what I can't figure out is why that same friend, having taken to GPL > like a duck to water on my rig and owning a Celeron 566/TNT2 computer

hasn't

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> bought a wheel/pedal combo and the game yet!! ;-) > > Jan. > =--- > EldredP wrote... > > > > Well, I've been fighting with GPL for 2 years now... :) > > > > Eldred > > -- > > Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 > > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > > GPL hcp. +49.12 > > > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats > you > > with experience... > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. > >

In article <[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>P3-450 > >From personal experience driving on other people's machines, I don't have >the impression that steering lock and linearity are all that rig dependant. >More a matter of personal preference I think. However, for speed, you need >as touchy a control setting as you can get away with... without exception >the really fast people are very economical in their control movements. >

Ok, so your system isn't that much faster...<g> If I were to try your settings, I'd be luck to even be able to get out of the pits... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +49.12 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

P3-450 From personal experience driving on other people's machines, I don't have the impression that steering lock and linearity are all that rig dependant. More a matter of personal preference I think. However, for speed, you need as touchy a control setting as you can get away with... without exception the really fast people are very economical in their control movements. This is also an area where FF-wheels have an advantage, IMO, as the faster the on screen car moves, the more force is required to change it's direction. Makes it a lot easier to make controlled small movements, again: IMO. Jan. =--- EldredP wrote...

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> <snip> > Jeez - you run 14:1 ratio, AND full linear?!? I'm weaving(unstable > in a straight line) if I use less than 17:1, and I'm not running full > linear... What's the speed of your system? Maybe it's a control input > 'lag'. I only have a K63-400... > > Eldred > -- > Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPL hcp. +49.12 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, > then beats you with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>14:1... I drop down to 12:1 for Monaco and go up to 16:1 for really fast >tracks and ovals. Low speed steering hack enabled and linearity slider all >the way to left, BTW. > >I never cease to be amazed how setup, driving style and hardware combine to >make a car that handles very nicely indeed on your system a dog on someone >else's. > >What exactly do you mean by "weaving"? -Unstable in a straight line, or >taking too long to settle after a steering change/upset? > >Jan. >=--- >Michael Horton wrote... >> Jan for kicks I tried your settings. They seem not bad but I >> find I'm weaving all over the damn road. What steering ratio >> are you using (on average)? >> >> Mike

Jeez - you run 14:1 ratio, AND full linear?!? I'm weaving(unstable in a straight line) if I use less than 17:1, and I'm not running full linear... What's the speed of your system? Maybe it's a control input 'lag'. I only have a K63-400... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +49.12 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <kIIS5.17880$[email hidden]>, "Michael Horton" <[email hidden]> writes: >Eldred with FF wheels Full Linear is the only way to go IMHO. When I was >using my TM wheel I had it set almost all the way non-linear and probably >ran about 16 - 20:1 ratios (it's been over a year and the old noggin wasn't >that good to begin with <G>). > I don't have an FF wheel, though. As an experiment, I tried full linear with a 14:1 ratio last night at Silverstone. The car weaved so much I could have gotten pulled over for DUI...<g> There's no *way* I'd attempt a race like that. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +49.12 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Unstable in a straight line though that may have been due to using a 12:1 ratio and being a little on the ham fisted side. While my old settings weren't strong arm settings, I've found that any big changes in Overall force make quite a difference. I haven't had a chance to fire up GPL since Sunday and had been driving my old settings just before trying yours. Time may reduce the effects that I originally noticed. I'll keep you posted. Mike "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > 14:1... I drop down to 12:1 for Monaco and go up to 16:1 for really fast > tracks and ovals. Low speed steering hack enabled and linearity slider all > the way to left, BTW. > > I never cease to be amazed how setup, driving style and hardware combineto

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> make a car that handles very nicely indeed on your system a dog on someone > else's. > > What exactly do you mean by "weaving"? -Unstable in a straight line, or > taking too long to settle after a steering change/upset? > > Jan.

Eldred with FF wheels Full Linear is the only way to go IMHO. When I was using my TM wheel I had it set almost all the way non-linear and probably ran about 16 - 20:1 ratios (it's been over a year and the old noggin wasn't that good to begin with <G>). Mike "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >14:1... I drop down to 12:1 for Monaco and go up to 16:1 for really fast > >tracks and ovals. Low speed steering hack enabled and linearity sliderall > >the way to left, BTW. > > > >I never cease to be amazed how setup, driving style and hardware combineto > >make a car that handles very nicely indeed on your system a dog onsomeone

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> >else's. > > > >What exactly do you mean by "weaving"? -Unstable in a straight line, or > >taking too long to settle after a steering change/upset? > > > >Jan. > >=--- > >Michael Horton wrote... > >> Jan for kicks I tried your settings. They seem not bad but I > >> find I'm weaving all over the damn road. What steering ratio > >> are you using (on average)? > >> > >> Mike > > Jeez - you run 14:1 ratio, AND full linear?!? I'm weaving(unstable in a > straight line) if I use less than 17:1, and I'm not running full linear... > What's the speed of your system? Maybe it's a control input 'lag'. I

only

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> have a K63-400... > > Eldred > -- > Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPL hcp. +49.12 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.