Re: 3DFX No Longer Making Video Boards! << good and bad.

Judge <[email hidden]> wrote... > This isnt good strategy today. <snip> Perhaps. We'll see whether 3DfX does better with this strategy or not. But my point is that it's better for consumers (us). As you state, we can buy any number of boards with NVidia chipsets at low relative pricepoints. This is mainly because of competition between the Video board makers, aided somewhat by the economies of scale NVidia gains by selling so many chips to them all. Given 3Dfx's strategic shift, I think you should look for the same situation in the future with 3DfX-equipped boards. It's the nature of the business. As for the driver issue, yeah, they were all variations of reference drivers, but some had some nice tweaks that others didn't, and some usually performed a bit better or had fewer problems with certain configurations. Something for everyone. The bottom line; more competition among sellers generally, if not always, equals more choice and value for buyers. We shall see... Steve B.

It might pay off for them in th elong run, because producing chips is much cheaper than producing PCBs and chipsets. They can channel money back into development that might have otherwise been used up in production. I'd say this was the only choice they had. Their chips are getting their arses kicked now and some serious R&D activity needs to commence to get them back in the fight. In article <[email hidden]>, Judge <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> This isnt good strategy today. Reason being - Diamond, who arguably > made the best or at least most well known 3dfx powered boards is no > longer making video boards - the company is now owned by S3 and a few > weeks ago changed their name and total direction. The new company name > is Sonicblue (www.sonicblue.com) and they are betting on MP3 players > and other such nonsense. With NVidia pumping out MX chipsets now that > are kicking ass and taking names for around $100, 3dfx will have to > lower profit margins and step up on horsepower to even stay alive. > > As for drivers... > > 99% of all 3rd party video card manufacturers are reskinned > "reference" drivers from the chip maker. Thats why in the Voodoo 2 > days you could own a Diamond board but run Creative Labs drivers. > > The world has changed drastically for us gamers..the good for now is > the higher framerates.. but sooner or later someone is going to lock > it up again and pork us good. For now, it looks like its NVidia's time > in the barrel. > > Judge > > ========================================== > > >Actually, they're agreeing with you and returning to the strategy of

their > >pre-STB days, when you could get 3DfX chips on boards made by various > >manufacturers, ala Diamond monster 3D's, Quantum Obsidians, etc.The result > >should be more variations in design and drivers, as well more choiceand > >lower prices on 3DfX-equipped boards for consumers (us!). This isthe > >NVidia strategy as well, by the way. Make the chips and let theothers use > >them as they will on their branded boards. 3DfX simplyoverestimated their > >market strength in going to the totally proprietary strategy, a movewhich, > >as I remember, didn't serve Apple too well either. Maybe there's alesson

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> >there...? > > > >Cheers, (as this is a GOOD thing!) > > > >Steve B. > > > >A quote from the Avault report: > >"The report indicates that 3dfx will now sell its chips to other > >manufacturers, who will create the boards that go in computers. Other > >graphics companies, such as NVidia, focus on developing new

generations of > >their 3D graphics chips, then sell those to manufacturers, whichbuild the > >actual boards. 3dfx halted this process with the STB acquisition;now it > >will have to re-approach their former allies and forge newrelationships > >with them. " > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Gunnar, This is first year economics in any university. A higher number of competitors in a given market results in higher competition, which in turn, leads to lower prices and greater selection (ceterus paribus; latin for all things remaining constant). You can find examples of this everywhere in the free market. Ex: AMD and Intel. What do you think would happen to CPU prices if AMD or Intel dropped off the face of the planet? " if 3dfx didn't push the industry, somebody else would." - Gunnar - Not true. Again...back to first year economics. There are many things that do not allow free entry into an industry. These are called barriers to entry. IT is typically subject to this because the costs associated with start up are so high. Also, there will only be new entries into a market if the profits to entry are higher than the costs. If a company knows what they are doing, they will make it very unattractive for others to enter. Make no mistake...it is bad for consumers to lose 3dfx. You may not like their product, but it would be inaccurate to say they did nothing to lower video card prices and push 3D technology. Ex/ Do you think NVIDIA and ATI would have pushed so hard to have anti-aliasing in their drivers if it were not for 3dfx? Monopoly is never good for consumers. If you ever get a chance to read up on consumer vs producer surplus, you will understand that having one dominant company in any one industry is almost always "bad" for consumers. On 15 Nov 2000 13:40:22 +0100, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>[email hidden] (Amp) writes: >> On 15 Nov 2000 11:50:17 +0100, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> >> thus spoke: >> >> >> >I only wish they'd stop making chips as well. >> >> You want to see Nvidia with a monopoly? > >well, since I'm programming for the stuff, I'd really like it if >everyone had Nvidia-cards, yeah. :) > > >> You want to pay a premium price for all your video cards? > >nope. :) > > >> Don't be so foolish. > >what's foolish? stating the inferiority of 3dfx-chips? > > > > >-- >Gunnar > #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 > gnus don't kill people. gnus-summary-lower-score kills people.

"Leong" <[email hidden]> writes: > good riddence to := I only wish they'd stop making chips as well. -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 FJ�SE!

"Ashley McConnell" <[email hidden]> writes: > If it wasnt for 3dfx pushing the rest of the graphics card industry into > action we wouldnt be able to play the games we have today - we would still > be struggling if S3 crap :) nonsense. if 3dfx didn't push the industry, somebody else would. besides, it's been a long time since they pushed anything but daisies. -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 myk, trygg og god.

[email hidden] (Amp) writes:

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> On 15 Nov 2000 11:50:17 +0100, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> > thus spoke: > > > >I only wish they'd stop making chips as well. > > You want to see Nvidia with a monopoly?

well, since I'm programming for the stuff, I'd really like it if everyone had Nvidia-cards, yeah. :) > You want to pay a premium price for all your video cards? nope. :) > Don't be so foolish. what's foolish? stating the inferiority of 3dfx-chips? -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 gnus don't kill people. gnus-summary-lower-score kills people.

Ashley absolutely agree with you on this point 3DFX started me off on the 3D cards but along the way they went off the rails and started the MARKETING BULLSHIT and from then onwards , it has been one horrendous episode after another but don't get me wrong I am very grateful for them and what they have done to get the 3D market on its feet. Ashley McConnell <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8utrmd$c29$[email hidden]...

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> If it wasnt for 3dfx pushing the rest of the graphics card industry into > action we wouldnt be able to play the games we have today - we would still > be struggling if S3 crap :) > > "Gunnar Horrigmo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > | "Leong" <[email hidden]> writes: > | > | > good riddence to := > | > | I only wish they'd stop making chips as well. > | > | -- > | Gunnar > | #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�:

2 > | FJ�SE! > >

"Cliff Roman" <[email hidden]> writes: > The more players in the game, the better the game will become. > > Even if they have a inferior product right now, they have shown in the past > that they can have the best product and you want a company like that in the > market to help keep the competition and to help push the envelope even > further. sure. if they can come up with a good product, more power to them. I don't have any belief that they'll pull, through, and inferior products will put a damper on the creation of new, cool games. I wouldn't mind being proved wrong. -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 silence is FOO!

Incubus <[email hidden]> wrote... > I don't get it......they fucked up, and now they want to branch outfurther > ? > Yeah, that should fix everything. Actually, they're agreeing with you and returning to the strategy of their pre-STB days, when you could get 3DfX chips on boards made by various manufacturers, ala Diamond monster 3D's, Quantum Obsidians, etc. The result should be more variations in design and drivers, as well more choice and lower prices on 3DfX-equipped boards for consumers (us!). This is the NVidia strategy as well, by the way. Make the chips and let the others use them as they will on their branded boards. 3DfX simply overestimated their market strength in going to the totally proprietary strategy, a move which, as I remember, didn't serve Apple too well either. Maybe there's a lesson there...? Cheers, (as this is a GOOD thing!) Steve B. A quote from the Avault report: "The report indicates that 3dfx will now sell its chips to other manufacturers, who will create the boards that go in computers. Other graphics companies, such as NVidia, focus on developing new generations of their 3D graphics chips, then sell those to manufacturers, which build the actual boards. 3dfx halted this process with the STB acquisition; now it will have to re-approach their former allies and forge new relationships with them. "

This isnt good strategy today. Reason being - Diamond, who arguably made the best or at least most well known 3dfx powered boards is no longer making video boards - the company is now owned by S3 and a few weeks ago changed their name and total direction. The new company name is Sonicblue (www.sonicblue.com) and they are betting on MP3 players and other such nonsense. With NVidia pumping out MX chipsets now that are kicking ass and taking names for around $100, 3dfx will have to lower profit margins and step up on horsepower to even stay alive. As for drivers... 99% of all 3rd party video card manufacturers are reskinned "reference" drivers from the chip maker. Thats why in the Voodoo 2 days you could own a Diamond board but run Creative Labs drivers. The world has changed drastically for us gamers..the good for now is the higher framerates.. but sooner or later someone is going to lock it up again and pork us good. For now, it looks like its NVidia's time in the barrel. Judge ==========================================

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>Actually, they're agreeing with you and returning to the strategy of their >pre-STB days, when you could get 3DfX chips on boards made by various >manufacturers, ala Diamond monster 3D's, Quantum Obsidians, etc. The result >should be more variations in design and drivers, as well more choice and >lower prices on 3DfX-equipped boards for consumers (us!). This is the >NVidia strategy as well, by the way. Make the chips and let the others use >them as they will on their branded boards. 3DfX simply overestimated their >market strength in going to the totally proprietary strategy, a move which, >as I remember, didn't serve Apple too well either. Maybe there's a lesson >there...? > >Cheers, (as this is a GOOD thing!) > >Steve B. > >A quote from the Avault report: >"The report indicates that 3dfx will now sell its chips to other >manufacturers, who will create the boards that go in computers. Other >graphics companies, such as NVidia, focus on developing new generations of >their 3D graphics chips, then sell those to manufacturers, which build the >actual boards. 3dfx halted this process with the STB acquisition; now it >will have to re-approach their former allies and forge new relationships >with them. " >

Check it out.... http://cnnfn.cnn.com/2000/11/14/technology/3dfx/ http://www.avault.com/news/displaynews.asp?story=11142000-1982 They dug themselves into a whole when they bought STB (sounds like...anybody remember what Sony did with the Betamax? - 3dfx did the same) Looks like ATI and NVidia will rule...

Hopefully this will allow 3Dfx to reestablish themselves. They have a quite a way to go IMO, but being able to focus solely on development should help them get back into the ballgame. They have also licensed out their V5-6000 to Quantum3D. The board will not be available through regular retail channels. In article <cvlQ5.1579$[email hidden]>, "Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> Check it out.... > > http://cnnfn.cnn.com/2000/11/14/technology/3dfx/ > > http://www.avault.com/news/displaynews.asp?story=11142000-1982 > > They dug themselves into a whole when they bought STB > (sounds like...anybody remember what Sony did with the Betamax? - > 3dfx did the same) > > Looks like ATI and NVidia will rule... > >

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

I don't get it......they fucked up, and now they want to branch out further ? Yeah, that should fix everything. <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8ustb5$75t$[email hidden]...

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> Hopefully this will allow 3Dfx to reestablish themselves. They have a > quite a way to go IMO, but being able to focus solely on development > should help them get back into the ballgame. > > They have also licensed out their V5-6000 to Quantum3D. The board will > not be available through regular retail channels. > > In article <cvlQ5.1579$[email hidden]>, > "Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > Check it out.... > > > > http://cnnfn.cnn.com/2000/11/14/technology/3dfx/ > > > > http://www.avault.com/news/displaynews.asp?story=11142000-1982 > > > > They dug themselves into a whole when they bought STB > > (sounds like...anybody remember what Sony did with the Betamax? - > > 3dfx did the same) > > > > Looks like ATI and NVidia will rule... > > > > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.

good riddence to := AGP is not impt 32bit colour is not impt Regular Racer <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:cvlQ5.1579$[email hidden]...

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> Check it out.... > > http://cnnfn.cnn.com/2000/11/14/technology/3dfx/ > > http://www.avault.com/news/displaynews.asp?story=11142000-1982 > > They dug themselves into a whole when they bought STB > (sounds like...anybody remember what Sony did with the Betamax? - > 3dfx did the same) > > Looks like ATI and NVidia will rule... > > >

If it wasnt for 3dfx pushing the rest of the graphics card industry into action we wouldnt be able to play the games we have today - we would still be struggling if S3 crap :) "Gunnar Horrigmo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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| "Leong" <[email hidden]> writes: | | > good riddence to := | | I only wish they'd stop making chips as well. | | -- | Gunnar | #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 | FJ�SE!

Like I always say......let the worst guy win! "Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:cvlQ5.1579$[email hidden]...

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> Check it out.... > > http://cnnfn.cnn.com/2000/11/14/technology/3dfx/ > > http://www.avault.com/news/displaynews.asp?story=11142000-1982 > > They dug themselves into a whole when they bought STB > (sounds like...anybody remember what Sony did with the Betamax? - > 3dfx did the same) > > Looks like ATI and NVidia will rule... > > >

On 15 Nov 2000 11:50:17 +0100, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >I only wish they'd stop making chips as well. You want to see Nvidia with a monopoly? You want to pay a premium price for all your video cards? Don't be so foolish. Anyway, 3DFX are just changing their market strategy and not getting out of the business just yet. Here's hoping they never do either.

I agree they have come off the rails a bit in recent days, but I remember the day I saw a the 3dfx 1 card with the wizards castle (?) demo that came with the card, my jaw actually hit the ground - the difference was immense! I have recently went for a geforce 2 MX - dumping my voodoo 3, so I am not just a 3dfx fan that does not know when things change, but I reckon 3dfx could have pulled back (as they did before) - probably the *Shock* of ATI actually building a fast card was too much for them ;) I think we should be grateful for 3dfx bringing 3d cards to another level and for nvidia for carrying on that inovation. I dont understand why people are not sad to see them go, even only for the competition to keep prices down. Ashley "Leong" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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| Ashley | | | absolutely agree with you on this point | | 3DFX started me off on the 3D cards | but along the way they went off the rails | and started the MARKETING BULLSHIT | | and from then onwards , it has been one horrendous | episode after another | | | but don't get me wrong | I am very grateful for them and what they have done to | get the 3D market on its feet. | | | Ashley McConnell <[email hidden]> wrote in message | news:8utrmd$c29$[email hidden]... | > If it wasnt for 3dfx pushing the rest of the graphics card industry into | > action we wouldnt be able to play the games we have today - we would

still

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| > be struggling if S3 crap :) | > | > "Gunnar Horrigmo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message | > news:[email hidden]... | > | "Leong" <[email hidden]> writes: | > | | > | > good riddence to := | > | | > | I only wish they'd stop making chips as well. | > | | > | -- | > | Gunnar | > | #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8

Kibo�: | 2 | > | FJ�SE! | > | > | |

The more players in the game, the better the game will become. Even if they have a inferior product right now, they have shown in the past that they can have the best product and you want a company like that in the market to help keep the competition and to help push the envelope even further. I wish them well on their new strategy. "Gunnar Horrigmo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> [email hidden] (Amp) writes: > > On 15 Nov 2000 11:50:17 +0100, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> > > thus spoke: > > > > > > >I only wish they'd stop making chips as well. > > > > You want to see Nvidia with a monopoly? > > well, since I'm programming for the stuff, I'd really like it if > everyone had Nvidia-cards, yeah. :) > > > > You want to pay a premium price for all your video cards? > > nope. :) > > > > Don't be so foolish. > > what's foolish? stating the inferiority of 3dfx-chips? > > > > > -- > Gunnar > #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 > gnus don't kill people. gnus-summary-lower-score kills people.

On 15 Nov 2000 16:55:01 +0100, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>"Cliff Roman" <[email hidden]> writes: > >> The more players in the game, the better the game will become. >> >> Even if they have a inferior product right now, they have shown in the past >> that they can have the best product and you want a company like that in the >> market to help keep the competition and to help push the envelope even >> further. > >sure. if they can come up with a good product, more power to them. I >don't have any belief that they'll pull, through, and inferior >products will put a damper on the creation of new, cool games. > >I wouldn't mind being proved wrong.

Darn! and here I was ready to spend over $600 for a video card with it's own power supply. Seriously though, at leat ATI with the radeon is viable competition (tested one last week, the all in wonder with the 50 rebate is damn tempting) but more players in the game IS overall a better thing. Thanks to competion I got my latest card for 130 (geforce2 MX with tv-out {for divx})

Exactly Steve...Proprietary killed Apple/Macintosh "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Incubus <[email hidden]> wrote... > > > I don't get it......they fucked up, and now they want to branch out > further > > ? > > Yeah, that should fix everything. > > Actually, they're agreeing with you and returning to the strategy of their > pre-STB days, when you could get 3DfX chips on boards made by various > manufacturers, ala Diamond monster 3D's, Quantum Obsidians, etc. The

result > should be more variations in design and drivers, as well more choice and > lower prices on 3DfX-equipped boards for consumers (us!). This is the > NVidia strategy as well, by the way. Make the chips and let the othersuse > them as they will on their branded boards. 3DfX simply overestimatedtheir > market strength in going to the totally proprietary strategy, a movewhich,

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> as I remember, didn't serve Apple too well either. Maybe there's a lesson > there...? > > Cheers, (as this is a GOOD thing!) > > Steve B. > > A quote from the Avault report: > "The report indicates that 3dfx will now sell its chips to other > manufacturers, who will create the boards that go in computers. Other > graphics companies, such as NVidia, focus on developing new generations of > their 3D graphics chips, then sell those to manufacturers, which build the > actual boards. 3dfx halted this process with the STB acquisition; now it > will have to re-approach their former allies and forge new relationships > with them. " > >

How is the V5 inferior? Most reviews and magazines rate it as the best image quality out of all the current cards. And I agree with them image wise the V5 is equal or better than any card at this time. Maybe the Radeon looks slightly better? Maybe, that is very subjective. The Radeon is one year newer so it should show improvements. Also the V5 may not be as fast as the last few Nvidia cards but so what? It was meant to compete with the Geforce1. Which it beats easily in FPS and image quality. And what at least 90 FPS not fast enough for you with the V5 with a middle class (550MHz) CPU? :-) On average it gets 100-120 FPS in most game benchmarks. Does anyone have a monitor with a refresh rate that can handle 140 FPS? Or 1600x1200 in 32bit? Thought so.. And Still AGP is not anything significant anyway. Marginal to zero speed increase from AGP 1x to 4x. AGP Texturing is a wash as well as barley any games use it or ever will. On board memory is more important. Just like 3DFX said. And 32bit color? Again big deal. Most PC's up until the last few months were/are to slow to make use of it. And most people cannot tell the difference between 16 and 32 bit color. It's bragging rights. Tech talk. Marketing hype. There is very little visual difference unless the textures and art where originally drawn in 32 bit. Unreal is all 16bit, looks ok to me! :-) And 3DFX said 32bit color would not be important at the time the V3 just came out. They where correct. All Nvidia has done in the last few years is make 2 chipset's. TNT and Geforce. Then overclocked them and called them Ultra or added a 2 or MX to the name. Big harry deal :-) That is not as innovative as it would seem. Oh, Rendition was around before 3DFX.. Thank them ;-) "Cliff Roman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8uu754$1bs2$[email hidden]... > The more players in the game, the better the game will become. > > Even if they have a inferior product right now, they have shown in thepast > that they can have the best product and you want a company like that inthe

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> market to help keep the competition and to help push the envelope even > further. > > I wish them well on their new strategy. > > > "Gunnar Horrigmo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > [email hidden] (Amp) writes: > > > On 15 Nov 2000 11:50:17 +0100, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> > > > thus spoke: > > > > > > > > > >I only wish they'd stop making chips as well. > > > > > > You want to see Nvidia with a monopoly? > > > > well, since I'm programming for the stuff, I'd really like it if > > everyone had Nvidia-cards, yeah. :) > > > > > > > You want to pay a premium price for all your video cards? > > > > nope. :) > > > > > > > Don't be so foolish. > > > > what's foolish? stating the inferiority of 3dfx-chips? > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Gunnar > > #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�:

2 > > gnus don't kill people. gnus-summary-lower-score kills people. > >

A whole what? -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Regular Racer <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:cvlQ5.1579$[email hidden]... > > They dug themselves into a whole when they bought STB >

>> what's foolish? stating the inferiority of 3dfx-chips? No, wishing the demise of 3DFX. In some areas the V5 is inferior and in others they are superior. I've had both a Geforce2 and V5 and I ended up choosing the V5 over the Geforce2 for superior FSAA and stability.

In article <4xCQ5.104872$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > How is the V5 inferior? You mentioned that the V5 was intended to compete against the Geforce cards, but it was released quite a bit AFTER the Geforce item. nVida captured vital marketshare, and they continue to do so. The thing to remember is that the V5 is right for you, and the Geforce is right for others, while still others prefer the Radeon. Why is diversity a bad thing, and why do folks continue to beat on each other simply because their card of choice was slammed? It looks to me like someone is deep-down sorry the plunked the cash down for a V5/Geforce/Radeon and now they're trying to save face by claiming that their card has more "these", or bigger "those". Toe-may-toe, toe-mah-toe for christ's fuckin sake... > increase from AGP 1x to 4x. AGP Texturing is a wash as well as barley any "barley" is a grain. > games use it or ever will. On board memory is more important. Just like 3DFX On board memory, *what* is important? > And 32bit color? Again big deal. Most PC's up until the last few months > were/are to slow to make use of it. "too" slow to make use of it... > Big harry deal :-) Who's "harry"? -- ========================================================= Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12) http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (420+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast DeMONS Scheduler for N3 and NL http://www.paddedwall.org/demons IGPS/3 Home Page http://www.paddedwall.org/igps3 If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

Hello Gunnar, No, it is not an "official" statement as there is nothing in my post regarding gaming peripherals. This is a somewhat off-topic from racing. All of the facts were objective and stated, "matter of fact." This is why I made reference to "economics class." :) Electronic communication is tricky as people can easily misinterpret tone, etc. I didn't mean for my post to come across "against" you in any way. I personally don't think it is constructive to post things like, "xxx sucks" or "xxx rules" without substantive and logical arguments. Norway? We do have a fulfillment house in Holland. Have you tried IE? Raymond ACT LABS www.act-labs.com On 16 Nov 2000 11:43:17 +0100, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>[email hidden] (Raymond, ACT LABS) writes: > >> " if 3dfx didn't push the industry, somebody else would." - Gunnar >> - Not true. Again...back to first year economics. > >haven't been there in the first place, nor do I have any desire to, so >no thanks. :) > > >> Make no mistake...it is bad for consumers to lose 3dfx. You may not >> like their product, but it would be inaccurate to say they did nothing >> to lower video card prices and push 3D technology. >> Ex/ Do you think NVIDIA and ATI would have pushed so hard to have >> anti-aliasing in their drivers if it were not for 3dfx? >> >> Monopoly is never good for consumers. > >I know that. come on, lighten up. I think you're taking me a bit >too seriously. never a good thing. :) > >btw; is your post an official statement on behalf of ACT Labs? > >and btw2; can I get your steering wheel anywhere in Norway? >http://www.act-labs.com really convinced me, after first killing my >netscape about a billion times. > >-- >Gunnar > #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 > gnus don't kill people. gnus-summary-lower-score kills people.

[email hidden] (Raymond, ACT LABS) writes: > " if 3dfx didn't push the industry, somebody else would." - Gunnar > - Not true. Again...back to first year economics. haven't been there in the first place, nor do I have any desire to, so no thanks. :)

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> Make no mistake...it is bad for consumers to lose 3dfx. You may not > like their product, but it would be inaccurate to say they did nothing > to lower video card prices and push 3D technology. > Ex/ Do you think NVIDIA and ATI would have pushed so hard to have > anti-aliasing in their drivers if it were not for 3dfx? > > Monopoly is never good for consumers.

I know that. come on, lighten up. I think you're taking me a bit too seriously. never a good thing. :) btw; is your post an official statement on behalf of ACT Labs? and btw2; can I get your steering wheel anywhere in Norway? http://www.act-labs.com really convinced me, after first killing my netscape about a billion times. -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 gnus don't kill people. gnus-summary-lower-score kills people.

"Robert" <[email hidden]> writes: > And 32bit color? Again big deal. Most PC's up until the last few months > were/are to slow to make use of it. not true. > And most people cannot tell the > difference between 16 and 32 bit color. again not true. 16bit color gives you 32 -count'em- tones of red, for instance. you won't notice much of a difference when watching some fancy scenery, but try layering a few translucent polygons (in real time) and see what happens. btw; it doesn't really have 32bit color, has it? 24 + alpha, no? > All Nvidia has done in the last few years is make 2 chipset's. TNT and > Geforce. > Then overclocked them and called them Ultra or added a 2 or MX to > the name. and this is just way out there. Nvidia has put transform and lighting in hardware, which is a MAJOR thing. -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 FJ�SE!

[email hidden] (Amp) writes:

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> On 16 Nov 2000 11:34:25 +0100, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> > thus spoke: > > >yet more bullshit. Nvidia has put transform and lighting in hardware, > >which is a MAJOR thing. > > And 3DFX has a card in the works right now with a T&L engine. A > supposedly superior one than on the current Geforce2 I might add.

cool. I'll believe it when I see it, but seeing it would be cool. :) > Also in the works is another chipset that only sends to the frame > buffer that which is actually needed thus making the use of onboard > memory far more efficient. hmmmm.... this I didn't understand. got any URLs? -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 gnus don't kill people. gnus-summary-lower-score kills people.

"Robert" <[email hidden]> writes: > And 32bit color? Again big deal. Most PC's up until the last few months > were/are to slow to make use of it. this is bullshit. > And most people cannot tell the > difference between 16 and 32 bit color. and more bullshit. 16bit color gives you 32 -count'em- tones of red, for instance. you won't notice much of a difference when watching some fancy scenery, but try layering a few translucent polygons (in real time) and see what happens. btw; it doesn't really have 32bit color, has it? 24 + alpha, no? > All Nvidia has done in the last few years is make 2 chipset's. TNT and > Geforce. > Then overclocked them and called them Ultra or added a 2 or MX to > the name. yet more bullshit. Nvidia has put transform and lighting in hardware, which is a MAJOR thing. -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 FJ�SE!

[email hidden] (Amp) writes: > >> what's foolish? stating the inferiority of 3dfx-chips? > > No, wishing the demise of 3DFX. oh that. hehe. that's just an egoistical result of the frustration coming from having to deal with different types of hardware. :) -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 gitaren er en sjingke

A whole lot of financial instablity and failures <grin> "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3a12f5a4$[email hidden]...

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> A whole what? > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. > --------------------------- > > Regular Racer <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:cvlQ5.1579$[email hidden]... > > > > They dug themselves into a whole when they bought STB > > > >

I know what you mean, and I hope it works out, but I'm just wondering whether the problems that they've encountered so far, have been purely because of problems associated with producing boards on top of everything else (and therefore, by no longer producing them, being able to efficiently re-direct their energies), or, if any problems have also been caused by the make-up of the company itself, (ie people in charge), in which case, no amount of re-directing will help. "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Incubus <[email hidden]> wrote... > > > I don't get it......they fucked up, and now they want to branch out > further > > ? > > Yeah, that should fix everything. > > Actually, they're agreeing with you and returning to the strategy of their > pre-STB days, when you could get 3DfX chips on boards made by various > manufacturers, ala Diamond monster 3D's, Quantum Obsidians, etc. The

result > should be more variations in design and drivers, as well more choice and > lower prices on 3DfX-equipped boards for consumers (us!). This is the > NVidia strategy as well, by the way. Make the chips and let the othersuse > them as they will on their branded boards. 3DfX simply overestimatedtheir > market strength in going to the totally proprietary strategy, a movewhich,

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> as I remember, didn't serve Apple too well either. Maybe there's a lesson > there...? > > Cheers, (as this is a GOOD thing!) > > Steve B. > > A quote from the Avault report: > "The report indicates that 3dfx will now sell its chips to other > manufacturers, who will create the boards that go in computers. Other > graphics companies, such as NVidia, focus on developing new generations of > their 3D graphics chips, then sell those to manufacturers, which build the > actual boards. 3dfx halted this process with the STB acquisition; now it > will have to re-approach their former allies and forge new relationships > with them. " > >

On 16 Nov 2000 11:34:25 +0100, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >yet more bullshit. Nvidia has put transform and lighting in hardware, >which is a MAJOR thing. And 3DFX has a card in the works right now with a T&L engine. A supposedly superior one than on the current Geforce2 I might add. Also in the works is another chipset that only sends to the frame buffer that which is actually needed thus making the use of onboard memory far more efficient. This will mean FSAA and high res with much less of a performance hit.

On 16 Nov 2000 12:21:55 +0100, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >> Also in the works is another chipset that only sends to the frame >> buffer that which is actually needed thus making the use of onboard >> memory far more efficient. > >hmmmm.... this I didn't understand. got any URLs? I read about it here http://www.voodoosource.net/vsnet/index.html There was a link to a page that told you about the upcoming technology, but I don't see it there now. It's to do with the technology that 3DFX acquired from Gigapixel when they bought the company. Surely you have heard of that? No?

Judge <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> This isnt good strategy today. Reason being - Diamond, who arguably > made the best or at least most well known 3dfx powered boards is no > longer making video boards - the company is now owned by S3 and a few > weeks ago changed their name and total direction. The new company name > is Sonicblue (www.sonicblue.com) and they are betting on MP3 players > and other such nonsense. With NVidia pumping out MX chipsets now that > are kicking ass and taking names for around $100, 3dfx will have to > lower profit margins and step up on horsepower to even stay alive.

Anyone else still waiting for their $50 rebate on a retail 12M Monster card purchase? Sorry, I'm still bitter ;-) -- Randy "If you have a home that is mobile and 12 cars that aren't, you might be a redneck."

[email hidden] (Raymond, ACT LABS) writes: > No, it is not an "official" statement as there is nothing in my post > regarding gaming peripherals. ok. I was just curious about why you used your employer, rather than your surname. > Electronic communication is tricky as people can easily misinterpret > tone, etc. I didn't mean for my post to come across "against" you in > any way. oh, no, it was never taken as such in the first place. > I personally don't think it is constructive to post things > like, "xxx sucks" or "xxx rules" without substantive and logical > arguments. you're right. frustrations seldom are constructive. they're still annoying, though. > Norway? We do have a fulfillment house in Holland. Have you tried > IE? uh.. IE? "yes but I normally use Netscape" is not the kind of answer you're after, right? -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 myk, trygg og god.

ABSOLUTELY AGREED with Raymond here it was the competition that drove down the prices and also made more features available YES, if 3DFX remained it would be good for customers and the market ( although I would not buy their products ) as a side story ------------------------------------------------------- a lot of what NVIDIA gave us was from SGI = silicon Graphic interactive or something like that They sold their birthrights to NVIDIA because they thought that there is money in database business like ORACLE. we actually have SGI to thank for 3D cards !!! Raymond, ACT LABS <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Gunnar, > > This is first year economics in any university. A higher number of > competitors in a given market results in higher competition, which in > turn, leads to lower prices and greater selection (ceterus paribus; > latin for all things remaining constant). You can find examples of > this everywhere in the free market. > Ex: AMD and Intel. What do you think would happen to CPU prices if > AMD or Intel dropped off the face of the planet? > > " if 3dfx didn't push the industry, somebody else would." - Gunnar > - Not true. Again...back to first year economics. There are many > things that do not allow free entry into an industry. These are > called barriers to entry. IT is typically subject to this because the > costs associated with start up are so high. > Also, there will only be new entries into a market if the profits to > entry are higher than the costs. If a company knows what they are > doing, they will make it very unattractive for others to enter. > > Make no mistake...it is bad for consumers to lose 3dfx. You may not > like their product, but it would be inaccurate to say they did nothing > to lower video card prices and push 3D technology. > Ex/ Do you think NVIDIA and ATI would have pushed so hard to have > anti-aliasing in their drivers if it were not for 3dfx? > > Monopoly is never good for consumers. If you ever get a chance to > read up on consumer vs producer surplus, you will understand that > having one dominant company in any one industry is almost always "bad" > for consumers. > > > > On 15 Nov 2000 13:40:22 +0100, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >[email hidden] (Amp) writes: > >> On 15 Nov 2000 11:50:17 +0100, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> > >> thus spoke: > >> > >> > >> >I only wish they'd stop making chips as well. > >> > >> You want to see Nvidia with a monopoly? > > > >well, since I'm programming for the stuff, I'd really like it if > >everyone had Nvidia-cards, yeah. :) > > > > > >> You want to pay a premium price for all your video cards? > > > >nope. :) > > > > > >> Don't be so foolish. > > > >what's foolish? stating the inferiority of 3dfx-chips? > > > > > > > > > >-- > >Gunnar > > #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�:

2 > > gnus don't kill people. gnus-summary-lower-score kills people. >

Gunnar Horrigmo wrote: > > > Norway? We do have a fulfillment house in Holland. Have you tried > > IE? > > uh.. IE? "yes but I normally use Netscape" is not the kind of answer > you're after, right? Raymond is right in that competition is always a good thing for the consumers. Which is why I never conduct online business with organizations that insist on the use of proprietary browsers. -- Chuck Kandler Never underestimate the power of Stupid People in large groups. Registered Linux User #180746 http://counter.li.org

"Raymond, ACT LABS" <[email hidden]> wrote: > Norway? We do have a fulfillment house in Holland. Where? I live in Holland, and a friend of mine has bought the Force RS here recently, but it turned out it wasn't the USB-model. He's considering the USB-cartridge upgrade, but the cost of transportation from the USA is pretty high (too high). Are these cartridges also available here in Holland, at a fair price? Ice D

Hello Ice, Unfortunately, I do not believe the USB cartridge is available in a retail store in Norway. However, your friend is eligible for a USB upgrade...kind of. Just make sure he mentions to tech support that I said it was OK and I will vouch. Please let me know his name though. With the upgrade program, he can get half of the cost of the cartridge reimbursed. On Sat, 18 Nov 2000 13:39:24 +0100, "Ice D" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >"Raymond, ACT LABS" <[email hidden]> wrote: > >> Norway? We do have a fulfillment house in Holland. > >Where? I live in Holland, and a friend of mine has bought the Force RS here >recently, but it turned out it wasn't the USB-model. He's considering the >USB-cartridge upgrade, but the cost of transportation from the USA is pretty >high (too high). Are these cartridges also available here in Holland, at a >fair price? > >Ice D > > >

Cheers, sent you an email! "Raymond, ACT LABS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Hello Ice, > > Unfortunately, I do not believe the USB cartridge is available in a > retail store in Norway. However, your friend is eligible for a USB > upgrade...kind of. Just make sure he mentions to tech support that I > said it was OK and I will vouch. Please let me know his name though. > With the upgrade program, he can get half of the cost of the cartridge > reimbursed. > > > On Sat, 18 Nov 2000 13:39:24 +0100, "Ice D" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >"Raymond, ACT LABS" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > >> Norway? We do have a fulfillment house in Holland. > > > >Where? I live in Holland, and a friend of mine has bought the Force RS

here > >recently, but it turned out it wasn't the USB-model. He's considering the > >USB-cartridge upgrade, but the cost of transportation from the USA ispretty > >high (too high). Are these cartridges also available here in Holland, ata

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> >fair price? > > > >Ice D > > > > > > >