Re: GPL: True Confessions.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes: >BS. You're either skint or just refusing to play the game properly through >some misguided notion of what is "cool". I don't think "we" (the "sim >purists", I'll pretend you didn't say the other thing) need to take crap >from someone who's got a positive St. Eldred's Cup rank. ;-) > Heyy! Sheesh, tough crowd...<g> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +49.12 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Ville V Sinkko wrote... > <snip> > Ha! You are NOT alone! My ancient Gravis Pro has a third of an > inch of loose in the center but I'm not even considering getting > a wheel. They're for sissies and sim purists! .) > > +Cinquo [GPLrank 60.85 or something] BS. You're either skint or just refusing to play the game properly through some misguided notion of what is "cool". I don't think "we" (the "sim purists", I'll pretend you didn't say the other thing) need to take crap from someone who's got a positive St. Eldred's Cup rank. ;-) Seriously, without and FF wheel to use with GPL, you're missing out on a big part of the sim, IMO. Jan. =---

Two words Bruce: Force Feedback. You're a weird old character, voluntary missing out on two of the most engaging aspects of GPL, Force Feedback and online racing. Keep that up and Rohan is going to have you committed! ;-) Jan. =--- PS.: I know, I do keep on and on about the online stuff, it's just so much fun if you can align yourself with the right bunch. Take my word for it. PPS. : congrats on your daughter's wedding!! Bruce Kennewell wrote... > <snip>

Now all the stick drivers come out of the closet. My weapon of choice used to be a tiny Mach 1 stick which I could use with my thumb-tip (lightning fast reactions), but now I use a small Interact handheld wheel as well. I can't afford the desk space for a wheel, and only get to GPL about once a week. Stephen Jan Verschueren <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Ville V Sinkko wrote... > > <snip> > > Ha! You are NOT alone! My ancient Gravis Pro has a third of an > > inch of loose in the center but I'm not even considering getting > > a wheel. They're for sissies and sim purists! .) > > > > +Cinquo [GPLrank 60.85 or something] > > BS. You're either skint or just refusing to play the game properly through > some misguided notion of what is "cool". I don't think "we" (the "sim > purists", I'll pretend you didn't say the other thing) need to take crap > from someone who's got a positive St. Eldred's Cup rank. ;-) > > Seriously, without and FF wheel to use with GPL, you're missing out on a

big > part of the sim, IMO. > > Jan. > =--- > >

Bruce Kennewell wrote:

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> > Has this happened to anyone else? I am seriously thinking of hanging up the > wheel and pedals for good. > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. > ---------------------------

Well, the joystick may be faster, but the experience is IMHO nowhere near as immersive, and I find it much easier to be consistent with the wheel. -Gregor

Bruce Kennewell <[email hidden]> wrote: > Well, I'm confessing to the fact that I've reverted to using a .... GASP! > SHOCK! .... joystick! > Advantage 1 wheel/pedal combo I dug out my old (but in perfect condition) > Gravis Analogue Pro last week, plugged it in and started playing around with Ha! You are NOT alone! My ancient Gravis Pro has a third of an inch of loose in the center but I'm not even considering getting a wheel. They're for sissies and sim purists! .) +Cinquo [GPLrank 60.85 or something]

On Thu, 16 Nov 2000 21:07:41 +1100, "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Has this happened to anyone else? I am seriously thinking of hanging up the >wheel and pedals for good. But Bruce... you even use setups as they were in '67, because all those hotshots setups are not realistic.. and now you're using a joystick?? In '67 they didn't use a joystick... A joystick may be faster (I never tried it) but to me it's sort of, uhh.. cheating... Andre

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>Regards, >Bruce Kennewell, >Canberra, Australia. >--------------------------- > > >

Bruce Kennewell wrote:

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> > Well, I'm confessing to the fact that I've reverted to using a .... GASP! > SHOCK! .... joystick! > > After over two years of firstly a Thrustmaster wheel/pedal and then an > Advantage 1 wheel/pedal combo I dug out my old (but in perfect condition) > Gravis Analogue Pro last week, plugged it in and started playing around with > Combat FS:2, which I had bought that day. > > The next day, when I fired up GPL, the Gravis was still plugged in so I just > calibrated it, cranked the lock to 20:1, moved the slider to almost the > non-linear end and away I drove. > Hey..this wasn't too bad at all! Slides were easy to catch and....slides > were even easier to deliberately invoke and THEN catch!! Memories of GP1, > GP2 and the ICR series, all driven with a joystick, came flooding back and I > actually enjoyed the experience. > > A week later and I have consistently reduced lap times at every circuit by > anywhere between 0.6 and 1.3 seconds over what was doing with the wheel > (this with F3 and F2, I might add....not the GP cars). > > Has this happened to anyone else? I am seriously thinking of hanging up the > wheel and pedals for good.

Cheater..... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

HEY!!!...get your hand away from that F10 button mister!!! > On Thu, 16 Nov 2000 21:07:41 +1100, "Bruce Kennewell" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Has this happened to anyone else? I am seriously thinking of hanging up the > >wheel and pedals for good.

Bruce Kennewell wrote: > > Well, I'm confessing to the fact that I've reverted to using a .... GASP! > SHOCK! .... joystick! I suppose you've reverted to the arcade F10 view as well?? -- Chuck Kandler Never underestimate the power of Stupid People in large groups. Registered Linux User #180746 http://counter.li.org

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> Ville V Sinkko wrote... > > <snip> > > Ha! You are NOT alone! My ancient Gravis Pro has a third of an > > inch of loose in the center but I'm not even considering getting > > a wheel. They're for sissies and sim purists! .) > > > > +Cinquo [GPLrank 60.85 or something] > > BS. You're either skint or just refusing to play the game properly through > some misguided notion of what is "cool". I don't think "we" (the "sim > purists", I'll pretend you didn't say the other thing) need to take crap > from someone who's got a positive St. Eldred's Cup rank. ;-)

A good thing not to brag of my rather poor GPL Rank, if seriousness of posts will be evaluated by the rank, many people here will be disappointed. Like the good old I've raced sims since Pole Position. And I must not forget this one ---> :) -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

Bruce, When I was in the crosshairs of the deadline writing the GPL strategy guide, my lovely ECCI setup went wonky, so I reverted to a joystick setup...but with a twist. For flight sims, I had two plain ol' CH FlightSticks, the one on the right for roll/pitch/yaw, and the one on the left for throttle/rudder. Guess what? Yup, the only real problem with using a joystick for driving is the neccessity to modulate both steering and throttle/brake inputs with one hand. Separate the two, and, with only one axis per hand, you can go like stink...with surgical precision. Try it. --Steve Smith Bruce Kennewell <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3a13b0af$[email hidden]... > Well, I'm confessing to the fact that I've reverted to using a .... GASP! > SHOCK! .... joystick! > > After over two years of firstly a Thrustmaster wheel/pedal and then an > Advantage 1 wheel/pedal combo I dug out my old (but in perfect condition) > Gravis Analogue Pro last week, plugged it in and started playing aroundwith > Combat FS:2, which I had bought that day. > > The next day, when I fired up GPL, the Gravis was still plugged in so Ijust > calibrated it, cranked the lock to 20:1, moved the slider to almost the > non-linear end and away I drove. > Hey..this wasn't too bad at all! Slides were easy to catch and....slides > were even easier to deliberately invoke and THEN catch!! Memories of GP1, > GP2 and the ICR series, all driven with a joystick, came flooding back andI

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> actually enjoyed the experience. > > A week later and I have consistently reduced lap times at every circuit by > anywhere between 0.6 and 1.3 seconds over what was doing with the wheel > (this with F3 and F2, I might add....not the GP cars). > > Has this happened to anyone else? I am seriously thinking of hanging up

the

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> wheel and pedals for good. > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. > --------------------------- > > >

HAAAA! But I don't use F10, Goy, so does that make me only half a cheater? :-) -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > > Cheater..... > >

Never used it....never will. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Thomas JS Brown <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > HEY!!!...get your hand away from that F10 button mister!!! > > > On Thu, 16 Nov 2000 21:07:41 +1100, "Bruce Kennewell" > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >Has this happened to anyone else? I am seriously thinking of hanging up the > > >wheel and pedals for good.

The only reason that I'm using it is for convenience.........I'm into a few flight sims at the moment and simply cannot be bothered with unplugging/plugging the two different setups. If I hadn't been able to drive with the J/S, or if it had been way too slow, then I would've continued with the wheel. But, as I am able to drive okay with the old Gravis......I'll keep it plugged in for a while. At least until the interest in CFS:2 and the (up-coming) BoB and B17 fade away.....probably about 2003. :-) -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Thu, 16 Nov 2000 21:07:41 +1100, "Bruce Kennewell" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > But Bruce... you even use setups as they were in '67, because all > those hotshots setups are not realistic.. and now you're using a > joystick?? In '67 they didn't use a joystick... > A joystick may be faster (I never tried it) but to me it's sort of, > uhh.. cheating... > > Andre

Yeah....well, to each his own, I guess Jan. :-) I just may invest (?) in a good FF *STICK*...........WW1 and WW2 flight sims are also a love of mine and I've been waiting a long time for both BoB and B17-2 to appear. I might treat myself to a Christmas present. As far as a FF wheel goes.....I don't think so. At least not until WCS appears. Thanks for the wedding congrats, mate. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Jan Verschueren <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Two words Bruce: Force Feedback. > > You're a weird old character, voluntary missing out on two of the most > engaging aspects of GPL, Force Feedback and online racing. Keep that up and > Rohan is going to have you committed! ;-) > > Jan. > =--- > PS.: I know, I do keep on and on about the online stuff, it's just so much > fun if you can align yourself with the right bunch. Take my word for it. > PPS. : congrats on your daughter's wedding!!

Thank you, Stephen. You have restored my faith in simulationists! :-) I would like to try that....I actually have several Gravis Pro's (having been in the retail of same for some years!). Is there a special adapter to plug the two leads into or is some surgery required? -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Stephen Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:CvTQ5.211557$[email hidden]... > Bruce, > > When I was in the crosshairs of the deadline writing the GPL strategy guide, > my lovely ECCI setup went wonky, so I reverted to a joystick setup...but > with a twist. For flight sims, I had two plain ol' CH FlightSticks, the one > on the right for roll/pitch/yaw, and the one on the left for > throttle/rudder. Guess what? Yup, the only real problem with using a > joystick for driving is the neccessity to modulate both steering and > throttle/brake inputs with one hand. Separate the two, and, with only one > axis per hand, you can go like stink...with surgical precision. Try it. > > --Steve Smith

Bruce, That's the beauty part: no special stuff required, just a common, garden-variety Y connector. Windows usually just recognizes it as 2 separate 2-axis sticks, but it's easy to configure as a single 4-axis stick (roll/pitch/yaw--which is actually 2 axes, throttle, and rudder). Easy to configure in GPL, too. It doesn't have a hat switch (essential for some flight sims), but you could try configuring it with one FlightStick and one FlightStick Pro, or equivalent. I like the plain old FlightStick because the stick itself isn't so top heavy, and thus has a lower polar moment, for faster steering response (i.e., correcting skids). --Steve Bruce Kennewell <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Thank you, Stephen. > You have restored my faith in simulationists! :-) > > I would like to try that....I actually have several Gravis Pro's (having > been in the retail of same for some years!). > > Is there a special adapter to plug the two leads into or is some surgery > required? > > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. > --------------------------- > > Stephen Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:CvTQ5.211557$[email hidden]... > > Bruce, > > > > When I was in the crosshairs of the deadline writing the GPL strategy > guide, > > my lovely ECCI setup went wonky, so I reverted to a joystick setup...but > > with a twist. For flight sims, I had two plain ol' CH FlightSticks, the > one > > on the right for roll/pitch/yaw, and the one on the left for > > throttle/rudder. Guess what? Yup, the only real problem with using a > > joystick for driving is the neccessity to modulate both steering and > > throttle/brake inputs with one hand. Separate the two, and, with only

one > > axis per hand, you can go like stink...with surgical precision. Try it. > > > > --Steve Smith > > >

Wolfgang Woeger... a hotshoe and Gpl world record holder in the early days. Jan. =--- Bruce Kennewell wrote... > Who is "WW".....Wonder Woman? > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. > ---------------------------

Well, I'm confessing to the fact that I've reverted to using a .... GASP! SHOCK! .... joystick! After over two years of firstly a Thrustmaster wheel/pedal and then an Advantage 1 wheel/pedal combo I dug out my old (but in perfect condition) Gravis Analogue Pro last week, plugged it in and started playing around with Combat FS:2, which I had bought that day. The next day, when I fired up GPL, the Gravis was still plugged in so I just calibrated it, cranked the lock to 20:1, moved the slider to almost the non-linear end and away I drove. Hey..this wasn't too bad at all! Slides were easy to catch and....slides were even easier to deliberately invoke and THEN catch!! Memories of GP1, GP2 and the ICR series, all driven with a joystick, came flooding back and I actually enjoyed the experience. A week later and I have consistently reduced lap times at every circuit by anywhere between 0.6 and 1.3 seconds over what was doing with the wheel (this with F3 and F2, I might add....not the GP cars). Has this happened to anyone else? I am seriously thinking of hanging up the wheel and pedals for good. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. ---------------------------

Man, you're bringing back memories of my first Gravis Ultrasound (*the* cheapish soundcard to have if your interests tended more towards music than Doom). Stephen Bruce Kennewell <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Thank you, Stephen. > You have restored my faith in simulationists! :-) > > I would like to try that....I actually have several Gravis Pro's (having > been in the retail of same for some years!). > > Is there a special adapter to plug the two leads into or is some surgery > required? > > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. > ---------------------------

Great! Thank you very much for the tips, Stephen. Most appreciated and I will certainly give it a whirl. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Stephen Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:NBZQ5.212963$[email hidden]... > Bruce, > > That's the beauty part: no special stuff required, just a common, > garden-variety Y connector.

Bruce Kennewell wrote: > > HAAAA! > But I don't use F10, Goy, so does that make me only half a cheater? :-) Well, I guess we could cut a senior citizen some slack...:-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

I'm with you Bruce, I use a tiny CH joystick just for driving games - and even I've got a Thrustmaster non-FF wheel and a Microsoft FF wheel! I just can't get over the lack of feel with a steering wheel and pedals. In a real car you just get so much more feedback. Admittedly you don't get the feedback with a joystick either but at least you can apply the old opposite lock quicker. I'd like to try a different FF wheel but the Microsoft one seems to have so much inertia in the mechanism. And for the purists, I don't think a stick is easier, in fact it's downright tricky to trail brake with precision. - Michael In article <3a13b0af$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > Well, I'm confessing to the fact that I've reverted to using a .... GASP! > SHOCK! .... joystick! >

In article <CvTQ5.211557$[email hidden]>, Stephen Smith <[email hidden]> writes

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>Bruce, > >When I was in the crosshairs of the deadline writing the GPL strategy guide, >my lovely ECCI setup went wonky, so I reverted to a joystick setup...but >with a twist. For flight sims, I had two plain ol' CH FlightSticks, the one >on the right for roll/pitch/yaw, and the one on the left for >throttle/rudder. Guess what? Yup, the only real problem with using a >joystick for driving is the neccessity to modulate both steering and >throttle/brake inputs with one hand. Separate the two, and, with only one >axis per hand, you can go like stink...with surgical precision. Try it. >

You can 'go like stink' with 1 joystick - ask WW. However, I do believe he used to use F10 view, though this isn't essential for quick lap times. I'm hoping to go the other way, if you know what I mean <g>. Been using a joystick for waaayyy too long, but have no deskspace for a steering wheel and am really yearning to do something about this very soon. BTW does anyone know - even from the great man himself if he is reading ras - how WW is faring with the changeover to using a steering wheel? It would be interesting to hear about. -- Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) Remove ALL_STRESS before replying No person's opinions can be said to be more correct than another's, because each is the sole judge of his or her own experience.

Tricky? Now THAT is an understatement, Michael! :-) That is the hardest part of all....as Stephen Smith commented on. To use a joystick with 4 actions on two axis makes the job harder....not easier! -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- MichaelJP <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I'm with you Bruce, I use a tiny CH joystick just for driving games - > > And for the purists, I don't think a stick is easier, in fact it's > downright tricky to trail brake with precision. > > - Michael >

Who is "WW".....Wonder Woman? -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Peter Ives <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > You can 'go like stink' with 1 joystick - ask WW. However, I do believe > he used to use F10 view, though this isn't essential for quick lap > times. I'm hoping to go the other way, if you know what I mean <g>. > Been using a joystick for waaayyy too long, but have no deskspace for a > steering wheel and am really yearning to do something about this very > soon. BTW does anyone know - even from the great man himself if he is > reading ras - how WW is faring with the changeover to using a steering > wheel? It would be interesting to hear about.

Hi Bruce! Nice to hear that I am not the only one who is using Gravis for playing GPL :) I have used it since 1994 and it is still working well! My GPLRank is btw -9.9x. Ps. GPLRank Admins! It would be interesting to have information about people's driving equipment in GPLRank. -- --------------- Janne Poutanen

I never tried that card, Stephen. I tended towards the Creative Labs "Soundblaster" range at the time...although my first soundcard was something called a "Thunderboard" or similar......can't think of it now. But I always liked the Gravis Pro j/stick....and so did thousands of others. We sold everything that we could get...it was THE most popular all-round analogue j/s without doubt. One of the reasons for their popularity was their ruggedness and reliability. I also owned a Phoenix and a Firebird (still got the Phoenix) but I know that I was disappointed when the good old Analogue Pro was dropped from the range. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Stephen Ferguson <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Man, you're bringing back memories of my first Gravis Ultrasound (*the* > cheapish soundcard to have if your interests tended more towards music than > Doom). > > Stephen > > Bruce Kennewell <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Thank you, Stephen. > > You have restored my faith in simulationists! :-) > > > > I would like to try that....I actually have several Gravis Pro's (having > > been in the retail of same for some years!). > > > > Is there a special adapter to plug the two leads into or is some surgery > > required? > > > > -- > > Regards, > > Bruce Kennewell, > > Canberra, Australia. > > --------------------------- > > >

Well, thanks VERY much for that! :-) -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > Well, I guess we could cut a senior citizen some slack...:-) > >

Aaah. Thanks Jan. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Jan Verschueren <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Wolfgang Woeger... a hotshoe and Gpl world record holder in the early days. > > Jan. > =--- > Bruce Kennewell wrote... > > Who is "WW".....Wonder Woman? > > -- > > Regards, > > Bruce Kennewell, > > Canberra, Australia. > > --------------------------- > > >

Gravis rools okay! -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Janne Poutanen <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Hi Bruce! > > Nice to hear that I am not the only one who is using Gravis for playing > GPL :) I have used it since 1994 and it is still working well!

In article <[email hidden]>, Bruce Kennewell <[email hidden]> writes >Gravis rools okay! > Kewl. :)

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>-- >Regards, >Bruce Kennewell, >Canberra, Australia. >--------------------------- > >Janne Poutanen <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> Hi Bruce! >> >> Nice to hear that I am not the only one who is using Gravis for playing >> GPL :) I have used it since 1994 and it is still working well! > >

-- Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) Remove ALL_STRESS before replying No person's opinions can be said to be more correct than another's, because each is the sole judge of his or her own experience.

Saab agrees to some degree. Perhaps not easier, but better. A big safety problem is the wheel jutting into the cabin, so Saab has prototypes with a force-feedback joystick in the centre console for driving. Apparently it's quite easy to drive with a minimal amount of training. Next thing you know, Saab will have a prototype with a video camera mounted 10m behind and above the car, beaming the image into the driver's line of sight... Stephen Richard Grantham <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Their was an interview in our local computer mag. recentley (toronto) inwhich > Jaques > Villineurve states that he never uses a wheel and much prefers his joystick. > He also offers the opinion that a real F1 car would be easier to drivewith a > stick ! >

Their was an interview in our local computer mag. recentley (toronto) in which Jaques Villineurve states that he never uses a wheel and much prefers his joy stick. He also offers the opinion that a real F1 car would be easier to drive with a stick ! Bruce Kennewell wrote:

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> Well, I'm confessing to the fact that I've reverted to using a .... GASP! > SHOCK! .... joystick! > > After over two years of firstly a Thrustmaster wheel/pedal and then an > Advantage 1 wheel/pedal combo I dug out my old (but in perfect condition) > Gravis Analogue Pro last week, plugged it in and started playing around with > Combat FS:2, which I had bought that day. > > The next day, when I fired up GPL, the Gravis was still plugged in so I just > calibrated it, cranked the lock to 20:1, moved the slider to almost the > non-linear end and away I drove. > Hey..this wasn't too bad at all! Slides were easy to catch and....slides > were even easier to deliberately invoke and THEN catch!! Memories of GP1, > GP2 and the ICR series, all driven with a joystick, came flooding back and I > actually enjoyed the experience. > > A week later and I have consistently reduced lap times at every circuit by > anywhere between 0.6 and 1.3 seconds over what was doing with the wheel > (this with F3 and F2, I might add....not the GP cars). > > Has this happened to anyone else? I am seriously thinking of hanging up the > wheel and pedals for good. > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. > ---------------------------