PDPI L4 vs. SBLive! gameport

I'm planning out a new PC (hooray) to replace my aging PII; something like an AMD 1.2GHz Thunderbird-based system. I'm currently using a PDPI card and have been really happy with it, but because it's an ISA card and seems like most new motherboards are PCI & AGP only, I'm wondering if I should just go with the gameport on the soundcard for a new system, which is most likely going to be an SBLive. Does anyone have direct experience with using both the PDPI and the SBLive? I'm primarily going to be using a TSW for racing sims, but I'll also be using a Suncom throttle/stick (non-USB) and CH ProPedals for flight simming, too. One of the nice things about the PDPI is that I can keep both the TSW and the flight sim h/w plugged into the two PDPI ports, and just run a quick little batch program to switch between them. So, any words o' wisdom will be much appreciated. TIA and cheers, ============================ Dave Mack [email hidden] Homepage: "GPL Race Reports" http://www.geocities.com/dmackf2 (remove "nospamfor_" for correspondence)

In article <kHIU5.10951$[email hidden]>, "Henry Hohn" <[email hidden]> writes: >Mike Miller(Olchvyracr) has a SBLive and PDPI and claims the PDPI is better >and he gained some advantage in smoothness and speed with his TSW. > >IMO, with lesser wheels like TM, Act Labs, etc you won't see much >difference. You should notice more of a difference when you get into the >TSW, ecci, and other wheels such as that. I thought it would have been the other way around? The PDPI sould 'smooth out' the signal from a lower quality wheel... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +49.12 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Dave, I had a PDPI in my previous K6-2 500 system that I used pretty much exclusively with my TSW2. I just upgraded to a Duron 600 system (oc'ed to 750), and my new motherboard has on-board sound and game port and no ISA port, so I decided to try the on-board game port before committing to a new PCI sound card. So far, everything seems VERY stable -- I think with this much CPU power, a standard game port doesn't exhibit as much jitter as it does with a slower CPU, where it is polled less frequently. Frankly, at this point, I can't even tell the difference between the game port and my old PDPI -- I don't have to re-calibrate all the time like I had to do previously using older sound cards and game ports in the pre-PDPI days, and the inputs seem rock-steady in the calibration/test menu, and also in games (including GPL's calibration routine). The sound quality of the on-board sound card is also acceptable to me, but I typically use headphones and I'm not a hi-fi or surround-sound kind of guy, so you might be less impressed. Keep all this in mind and consider testing an on-board game port (if one is available on your new system) before spending money on something else. -- JB In article <[email hidden]>, nospamfor_dmack <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> I'm planning out a new PC (hooray) to replace my aging PII; something > like an AMD 1.2GHz Thunderbird-based system. I'm currently using a > PDPI card and have been really happy with it, but because it's an ISA > card and seems like most new motherboards are PCI & AGP only, I'm > wondering if I should just go with the gameport on the soundcard for a > new system, which is most likely going to be an SBLive. > > Does anyone have direct experience with using both the PDPI and the > SBLive? I'm primarily going to be using a TSW for racing sims, but > I'll also be using a Suncom throttle/stick (non-USB) and CH ProPedals > for flight simming, too. One of the nice things about the PDPI is > that I can keep both the TSW and the flight sim h/w plugged into the > two PDPI ports, and just run a quick little batch program to switch > between them. > > So, any words o' wisdom will be much appreciated. > > TIA and cheers, > ============================ > Dave Mack > [email hidden] > Homepage: "GPL Race Reports" > http://www.geocities.com/dmackf2 > (remove "nospamfor_" for correspondence) >

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Dave, I've been using a PDPI/ECCI combo for about 18 months. I'm also a flight simmer (wrote a guide for that, too; "PC Pilot," Avon, 1994) and have used all manner of combinations of CH, Suncom, TM, etc., sometimes together, sometimes solo. Almost anything can be made to work (simultaneously), but it seems to take endless experimentation. Like which controller you install first. If you have the PDPI installed, you want to disable-in-this-profile the SBL! game port. However, you can frequently combine a USB controller with a PDPI controller (e.g., USB wheel and PDPI pedals), as well as connecting several analog controllers to the PDPI (it doesn't work with digital controllers). I doubt PDPI's Mike Pelkey is around any more to answer FAQs; I think the company went under. Achim Trensz is up to speed on these issues and might be of some help. FWIW, a lot of GPL players insist that the SBL! port is non-jittery enuf, but I still like the PDPI 'cuz 1. it doesn't poll the interrupts (saving you from some online latency), and 2. its processor occupancy is much lower than a standard game port (which can spike at 30%!). Even USB controllers poll the interrupts and steal some CPU cycles. Lemme know if I can help. See you at the races. --Steve ("Toonces") Smith nospamfor_dmack <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I'm planning out a new PC (hooray) to replace my aging PII; something > like an AMD 1.2GHz Thunderbird-based system. I'm currently using a > PDPI card and have been really happy with it, but because it's an ISA > card and seems like most new motherboards are PCI & AGP only, I'm > wondering if I should just go with the gameport on the soundcard for a > new system, which is most likely going to be an SBLive. > > Does anyone have direct experience with using both the PDPI and the > SBLive? I'm primarily going to be using a TSW for racing sims, but > I'll also be using a Suncom throttle/stick (non-USB) and CH ProPedals > for flight simming, too. One of the nice things about the PDPI is > that I can keep both the TSW and the flight sim h/w plugged into the > two PDPI ports, and just run a quick little batch program to switch > between them. > > So, any words o' wisdom will be much appreciated. > > TIA and cheers, > ============================ > Dave Mack > [email hidden] > Homepage: "GPL Race Reports" > http://www.geocities.com/dmackf2 > (remove "nospamfor_" for correspondence)

Mike Miller(Olchvyracr) has a SBLive and PDPI and claims the PDPI is better and he gained some advantage in smoothness and speed with his TSW. IMO, with lesser wheels like TM, Act Labs, etc you won't see much difference. You should notice more of a difference when you get into the TSW, ecci, and other wheels such as that. "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:rAGU5.303975$[email hidden]... Dave, I've been using a PDPI/ECCI combo for about 18 months. I'm also a flight simmer (wrote a guide for that, too; "PC Pilot," Avon, 1994) and have used all manner of combinations of CH, Suncom, TM, etc., sometimes together, sometimes solo. Almost anything can be made to work (simultaneously), but it seems to take endless experimentation. Like which controller you install first. If you have the PDPI installed, you want to disable-in-this-profile the SBL! game port. However, you can frequently combine a USB controller with a PDPI controller (e.g., USB wheel and PDPI pedals), as well as connecting several analog controllers to the PDPI (it doesn't work with digital controllers). I doubt PDPI's Mike Pelkey is around any more to answer FAQs; I think the company went under. Achim Trensz is up to speed on these issues and might be of some help. FWIW, a lot of GPL players insist that the SBL! port is non-jittery enuf, but I still like the PDPI 'cuz 1. it doesn't poll the interrupts (saving you from some online latency), and 2. its processor occupancy is much lower than a standard game port (which can spike at 30%!). Even USB controllers poll the interrupts and steal some CPU cycles. Lemme know if I can help. See you at the races. --Steve ("Toonces") Smith nospamfor_dmack <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I'm planning out a new PC (hooray) to replace my aging PII; something > like an AMD 1.2GHz Thunderbird-based system. I'm currently using a > PDPI card and have been really happy with it, but because it's an ISA > card and seems like most new motherboards are PCI & AGP only, I'm > wondering if I should just go with the gameport on the soundcard for a > new system, which is most likely going to be an SBLive. > > Does anyone have direct experience with using both the PDPI and the > SBLive? I'm primarily going to be using a TSW for racing sims, but > I'll also be using a Suncom throttle/stick (non-USB) and CH ProPedals > for flight simming, too. One of the nice things about the PDPI is > that I can keep both the TSW and the flight sim h/w plugged into the > two PDPI ports, and just run a quick little batch program to switch > between them. > > So, any words o' wisdom will be much appreciated. > > TIA and cheers, > ============================ > Dave Mack > [email hidden] > Homepage: "GPL Race Reports" > http://www.geocities.com/dmackf2 > (remove "nospamfor_" for correspondence)

Dave, First of all, if you get the Abit KT-7 motherboard, which is excellent for your Thunderbird, you'll still have one ISA slot. No need to ditch the PDPI. See http://www.abit-usa.com. Then my experience: I've installed a PDPI myself about two months ago. Had been using the Live! gameport for ages before that. My input device is an ECCI CDS4000. - I didn't notice a change in jitteryness. The ECCI's pots are *so* precise, they just don't generate jitters at all, so the PDPI doesn't have anything to fix there. I am convinced that with most other wheels, the PDPI does a greate job in eliminating jitters, which the Live! just doesn't do. I think there is a common misperception here: it's not that other gameports *create* jitters, that's just not true. The wheel creates them, and the PDPI *eliminates* them totally. For this issue, check out www.gplonline.com, which has a lot of information about it. - What I *did* notice however, and which I never want to lose, is so much more smoothness when braking and turning at the same time. Especially GPL was so much more believable when being used with the PDPI. The feeling is terrific and really cannot be compared to the Live!. Trust me. - I don't really care about the possibility to connect more controllers, I only use my wheel anyway and it's way too heavy to move outta the way... <G> So, my conclusion for you: you do NOT want to miss the great feel and responsiveness you get with the PDPI, and the Abit KT-7 (and KT-7 RAID) are terrific motherboards which support both your 1.2mhz Thunderbird and your PDPI. Go for it! --- Joeri J. Cox European Racing League http://drive.to/erl "nospamfor_dmack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I'm planning out a new PC (hooray) to replace my aging PII; something > like an AMD 1.2GHz Thunderbird-based system. I'm currently using a > PDPI card and have been really happy with it, but because it's an ISA > card and seems like most new motherboards are PCI & AGP only, I'm > wondering if I should just go with the gameport on the soundcard for a > new system, which is most likely going to be an SBLive. > > Does anyone have direct experience with using both the PDPI and the > SBLive? I'm primarily going to be using a TSW for racing sims, but > I'll also be using a Suncom throttle/stick (non-USB) and CH ProPedals > for flight simming, too. One of the nice things about the PDPI is > that I can keep both the TSW and the flight sim h/w plugged into the > two PDPI ports, and just run a quick little batch program to switch > between them. > > So, any words o' wisdom will be much appreciated. > > TIA and cheers, > ============================ > Dave Mack > [email hidden] > Homepage: "GPL Race Reports" > http://www.geocities.com/dmackf2 > (remove "nospamfor_" for correspondence)

Stephen Smith wrote:

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> > Dave, > > I've been using a PDPI/ECCI combo for about 18 months. I'm also a flight > simmer (wrote a guide for that, too; "PC Pilot," Avon, 1994) and have used > all manner of combinations of CH, Suncom, TM, etc., sometimes together, > sometimes solo. Almost anything can be made to work (simultaneously), but > it seems to take endless experimentation. Like which controller you install > first. If you have the PDPI installed, you want to disable-in-this-profile > the SBL! game port. However, you can frequently combine a USB controller > with a PDPI controller (e.g., USB wheel and PDPI pedals), as well as > connecting several analog controllers to the PDPI (it doesn't work with > digital controllers). I doubt PDPI's Mike Pelkey is around any more to > answer FAQs; I think the company went under. Achim Trensz is up to speed on > these issues and might be of some help. FWIW, a lot of GPL players insist > that the SBL! port is non-jittery enuf, but I still like the PDPI 'cuz 1. it > doesn't poll the interrupts (saving you from some online latency), and 2. > its processor occupancy is much lower than a standard game port (which can > spike at 30%!). Even USB controllers poll the interrupts and steal some CPU > cycles. Lemme know if I can help.

1) This can be selected for the SBLive or any other gameport as well, it's somewhere under the game controllers tab in control panel Using the gameports of a Creative Labs AWE32 and Diamond MX300 here with a Thrustmaster F22Pro/TQS/RCS (with the new chips by Bob Church), X-Fighter/WCS/RCS and used to have a Thrustmaster T2 as well. All worked flawless and with very little spiking/drift. I did use CTFJ before I got the digital chips for the F22Pro/TQS. -- Jan-Albert "Anvil" van Ree | http://www.nl.3dgamers.com 3D Sims Archive maintainer | http://www.3dgamers.com Thrustmaster Resource Center | http://www.3dgamers.com/tmresourcecenter/ Brickbay shop "Brick Piles" | http://www.brickbay.com/store.asp?i=javanree

Yep, the lower quality the wheel, the more greater the effect of the PDPI. --- Joeri J. Cox European Racing League http://drive.to/erl "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <kHIU5.10951$[email hidden]>,"Henry > I thought it would have been the other way around? The PDPI sould 'smoothout' > the signal from a lower quality wheel... > > Eldred

I agree with Joeri. The jitters can either be caused by low-quality pots OR by non-standard pot values, which cause the calibration to be determined over a narrower range, so each little movement of the wheel causes a bigger-than-normal change in the resistance. This can be somewhat compensated for by editing the values in the Registry, but a better bet is to make sure you've got mil-spec, 270-deg., 100K pots in the first place. --Steve Joeri Cox <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:YeRU5.68575$[email hidden]...

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> Yep, the lower quality the wheel, the more greater the effect of the PDPI. > --- > Joeri J. Cox > > European Racing League > http://drive.to/erl > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <kHIU5.10951$[email hidden]>, > "Henry > > I thought it would have been the other way around? The PDPI sould

'smooth

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> out' > > the signal from a lower quality wheel... > > > > Eldred > > >

I just replaced the pots in my T2 wheel, and its made a real difference. I can play with the throttle in corners now and catch slides. People should also check under Settings/ControlPanel/GamingOptions/ControllerIDs/PortDriver tab and verify that it is using the 'accelerated' gameport driver and not the 'standard' gameport driver. My MX300 has this option, the newer creative cards prolly do too. rms [email hidden]