Re: N4..after the first morning..hmmm

> Yet in N4 you can go full throttle on a track like dover downs whichhas a high degree bank , hit the inside of a turn with the inside wheels or all 4 wheels and then back up the banked concrete again without problems...i've tried this dozens of times and sofar didn't spin once and no fighting for controle when doing so. Actually, Heat does this incorrectly to the extreme. It is common practice, especially by the big guns of Nascar, to clip the apron at it's apex/exit of a turn, especially at Dover and Bristol. If it's done to deep, you should spin, but Heat makes it impossible to do at all, which is wrong. -John Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

On Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:28:21 +0100, wsa <[email hidden]> wrote: >Flame away:) Can't. I agree. The pull to the left is so bad for me that there is no way I can correct it. I've yet to make a single successful lap. Everything else I'm pretty happy with. The selection of demo tracks was awful though. Why would papy want to pick two of the worse tracks on the Nascar circut to show off their game? Can't wait to drive the road courses though.

On Wed, 29 Nov 2000 15:34 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), [email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote: > >Must be a calibration issue, I've had no problems with pull to the left at >all. Must be. Every NASCAR race I've seen the drivers do hardly any correcting on straightaway. I can turn right 100% and I still end up against the inside wall.

In article <[email hidden]>, Jason Monds <[email hidden]> wrote: > Clipping I can see, but you can drive with 1/2 of the car on the apron > in N4. I agree it will help with the "racing" aspect so I won't gointo > it anymore. > > Jason. Ok, thanks Jason. I agree; half the car would be a bit much(don't have the demo yet) -John > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Hi, Ok...gonna get shot for this... Hi, Hi, First of all..i looooooooooove GPL..untill nascar heat came along GPL was the only race sim for me...tried many..never found anything that came close to GPL. So allthough this might be a somewhat negative view...it's not cause i'm biased to anything...it's just...my view..along with personal taste. I was looking forward to the N4 demo for months, got it early this morning and i've been driving it and messing around with the settings for 6 hours now... My impressions left me feeling somewhat disappointed.. Here's a 'short' view on the N4*demo* *GUI- love it......not that i care much about the GUI..gg *Garage...LOTs of options...and i mean LOTS...one can spend hours again tweaking the car if one wants to..as in GPL....spoiler goes from 45 to 70 degrees....etc...etc.. *Controls... The first "negative", i don't really like the force feedback implementation. I've tried and tried and tried to come up with a decent setting for my wheel..but have yet to find a setting i like. Part of the reason(i suspect a large part of the reason) might be that N4 does not have a ' trim ' setting as in nascar heat... I know some might argue the ' trim ' ain't realistic, but in my opinion the fact that you always have to steer to the right to keep a straight line does not transfer well from real life to a PC simulator...with deadzones and such(urgh) So one big wish for the release version of nascar 4 is the implementation of a 'trim' option in the garage.. Maybe within a few days or with luck my next attempt i will find FF settings in N4 which feel good.. So far for me nascar heat is the sim that does FF best *Graphics.... Very very nice, nothing stunning....then again i'm on a system with a TNT..it might look stunning with a GeForce. One thing, i don't feel as ' i'm there ' in nascar 4 as i do in nascar heat. Now this is a pure personal taste thing but i like nascar heat's graphics better...not because of looks, cause allthough they look different they're both fine quality gfx engines, but for some reason nascar heat's gfx give me more of a ' i'm in a car on a circuit ' then N4 does. Fps is good on a cel2 533->600 with 128mb and a TNT card. I get between 25 and 30 fps in D3D at 800x600 16bit , with everything maxed out, at dover downs. *Sound. YUK! now..again completely personal(can't emphasize that enough in the newsgroup jungle)...N4 sounds...they stink... To thin, no ooooeeemmmpfffff... Love the sounds in nascar heat...but i've heard people saying NH sounds suck...so:)) *Multiplayer, Not tried yet. *Physics Now for the people who don't hate me yet, the following might. I feel the physics in N4 aren't as good as in nascar heat.. The most obvious thing is the when you drive from the bank part of a corner..all the way and onto the 'flat' inside of a corner...do i make sence here?(errmm...englisch ain't my main language...) In nascar heat when you go of the main bank and you hit the 'flat' part on the inside of a corner with the inside wheels you will have to work to keep the car on the road and a lot of time you just spin off, this seems very realistic if you compare it to what you see on TV footage of nascar.. Yet in N4 you can go full throttle on a track like dover downs which has a high degree bank , hit the inside of a turn with the inside wheels or all 4 wheels and then back up the banked concrete again without problems...i've tried this dozens of times and sofar didn't spin once and no fighting for controle when doing so. Me not like:((( Now i very very vaguely remember david Kaemmer of papyrus mentioning this in a interview many moons ago... Something about leaving that particular car behaviour out because it would ruin gameplay..or something along that line.....well...if this is the case..then i suggest putting it in...VVBBGG Apart from that very important, at least to me, thing....the physics feel ok to me. Different from nascar heat, N4 seems to have very little 'push'. When you get out of a corner wilh full power in nascar heat you can get some serious push, in N4 there seems to be much less push.... There are more differences...but it doesn't really matter, both sims feels 'realistic'...allthough there are differences both do a fine job of simulating a car...except for that very annoying bank/flat responce(or more no repsonce) thing in N4 Overall....my personal preference goes to nascar heat, just feels better to me.. *final thoughts Since it's a demo there's only so much it tells about the release, one mucho importante thing, the AI, ain't there in the N4 demo. But i expected N4 to be the 'ultimate' nascar sim especially in the physics department. But to be honest nascar heat *in my opinion* beats N4 in that area (yes...i'm still in shock about that) The main bummer with nascar heat is the CRAP CRAP AI(and no yellows in multi)...now if they fixed that.. I know i mention Nascar heat a lot, i'm not related to MGI and have no intend to bash N4 or anything...but as i said, i expected more of N4 but now i feel that if MGI fixes the issues with nascar heat and that *includes* the 'no yellow flags' in multi(yes..i heard the reasons they won't implement yellows in multi but imo the no yellow makes online racing totally useless) nascar heat would be the better sim for me... Still gonna buy N4 though:)) Flame away:) cheers, Willem

[email hidden] (Jeff Szarka) wrote: > I've yet to make a single successful lap. Must be a calibration issue, I've had no problems with pull to the left at all. I *do* have momentary pauses every few seconds though. It's not related to the graphics settings/resolution/etc so I'm a bit stumped at the moment. It's not a showstopper, but it's annoying as hell and it must be what's stopping me getting below 1:24 at Dover :-> I've a horrible feeling it's a V3 texture memory thing, but nobody else has reported anything so far so I've got my fingers crossed it's something subtle at my end. Can't find a background task that affects it though, so... who knows. So far though, apart from good old Nascar cockpit claustrophobia, I think it'ds a great demo and I'm pleased to see the cars are quite simple to draw, so I'm hoping for a minimal (but not non-existent, obviously) frame rate hit in big fields. Oh, and I love that mirror... I mean mir. Andrew McP

Good post Willem. They are just opinions, and everyone is going to have variations. I don't have NH, so I can't compare. Dean wsa wrote in message ...

Quoted text (13 lines)

>Hi, > >Ok...gonna get shot for this... >Hi, > >Hi, > >First of all..i looooooooooove GPL..untill nascar heat came along GPL >was the only race sim for me...tried many..never found anything that >came close to GPL. >So allthough this might be a somewhat negative view...it's not cause >i'm biased to anything...it's just...my view..along with personal >taste.

{snip} >Flame away:) >cheers, >Willem >

Clipping I can see, but you can drive with 1/2 of the car on the apron in N4. I agree it will help with the "racing" aspect so I won't go into it anymore. Jason. [email hidden] wrote:

Quoted text (18 lines)

> > > Yet in N4 you can go full throttle on a track like dover downs which > > has a high degree bank , hit the inside of a turn with the inside > > wheels or all 4 wheels and then back up the banked concrete again > > without problems...i've tried this dozens of times and sofar didn't > > spin once and no fighting for controle when doing so. > > Actually, Heat does this incorrectly to the extreme. It is common > practice, especially by the big guns of Nascar, to clip the apron at > it's apex/exit of a turn, especially at Dover and Bristol. > > If it's done to deep, you should spin, but Heat makes it impossible > to do at all, which is wrong. > > -John > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.

-- Jason Monds http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (N3, GPL, Fun Run Sims) http://www.racersdomain.com - Race hosting. (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

Ok this is gone too far.... can you GPL fans at least give another Papyrus sim some credit? Joking, joking!! wsa <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Hi, > > Ok...gonna get shot for this... > Hi, > > Hi, > > First of all..i looooooooooove GPL..untill nascar heat came along GPL > was the only race sim for me...tried many..never found anything that > came close to GPL. > So allthough this might be a somewhat negative view...it's not cause > i'm biased to anything...it's just...my view..along with personal > taste. > > I was looking forward to the N4 demo for months, got it early this > morning and i've been driving it and messing around with the settings > for 6 hours now... > My impressions left me feeling somewhat disappointed.. > Here's a 'short' view on the N4*demo* > > *GUI- love it......not that i care much about the GUI..gg > > *Garage...LOTs of options...and i mean LOTS...one can spend hours > again tweaking the car if one wants to..as in GPL....spoiler goes from > 45 to 70 degrees....etc...etc.. > > *Controls... > The first "negative", i don't really like the force feedback > implementation. > I've tried and tried and tried to come up with a decent setting for my > wheel..but have yet to find a setting i like. > > Part of the reason(i suspect a large part of the reason) might be that > N4 does not have a ' trim ' setting as in nascar heat... > I know some might argue the ' trim ' ain't realistic, but in my > opinion the fact that you always have to steer to the right to keep a > straight line does not transfer well from real life to a PC > simulator...with deadzones and such(urgh) > So one big wish for the release version of nascar 4 is the > implementation of a 'trim' option in the garage.. > > Maybe within a few days or with luck my next attempt i will find FF > settings in N4 which feel good.. > So far for me nascar heat is the sim that does FF best > > *Graphics.... > Very very nice, nothing stunning....then again i'm on a system with a > TNT..it might look stunning with a GeForce. > One thing, i don't feel as ' i'm there ' in nascar 4 as i do in nascar > heat. > Now this is a pure personal taste thing but i like nascar heat's > graphics better...not because of looks, cause allthough they look > different they're both fine quality gfx engines, but for some reason > nascar heat's gfx give me more of a ' i'm in a car on a circuit ' > then N4 does. > Fps is good on a cel2 533->600 with 128mb and a TNT card. > I get between 25 and 30 fps in D3D at 800x600 16bit , with everything > maxed out, at dover downs. > > *Sound. > YUK! > now..again completely personal(can't emphasize that enough in the > newsgroup jungle)...N4 sounds...they stink... > To thin, no ooooeeemmmpfffff... > Love the sounds in nascar heat...but i've heard people saying NH > sounds suck...so:)) > > *Multiplayer, > Not tried yet. > > *Physics > Now for the people who don't hate me yet, the following might. > I feel the physics in N4 aren't as good as in nascar heat.. > > The most obvious thing is the when you drive from the bank part of a > corner..all the way and onto the 'flat' inside of a corner...do i > make sence here?(errmm...englisch ain't my main language...) > In nascar heat when you go of the main bank and you hit the 'flat' > part on the inside of a corner with the inside wheels you will have to > work to keep the car on the road and a lot of time you just spin off, > this seems very realistic if you compare it to what you see on TV > footage of nascar.. > Yet in N4 you can go full throttle on a track like dover downs which > has a high degree bank , hit the inside of a turn with the inside > wheels or all 4 wheels and then back up the banked concrete again > without problems...i've tried this dozens of times and sofar didn't > spin once and no fighting for controle when doing so. > Me not like:((( > > Now i very very vaguely remember david Kaemmer of papyrus mentioning > this in a interview many moons ago... > Something about leaving that particular car behaviour out because it > would ruin gameplay..or something along that line.....well...if this > is the case..then i suggest putting it in...VVBBGG > > Apart from that very important, at least to me, thing....the physics > feel ok to me. > Different from nascar heat, N4 seems to have very little 'push'. > When you get out of a corner wilh full power in nascar heat you can > get some serious push, in N4 there seems to be much less push.... > There are more differences...but it doesn't really matter, both sims > feels 'realistic'...allthough there are differences both do a fine job > of simulating a car...except for that very annoying bank/flat > responce(or more no repsonce) thing in N4 > Overall....my personal preference goes to nascar heat, just feels > better to me.. > > *final thoughts > > Since it's a demo there's only so much it tells about the release, one > mucho importante thing, the AI, ain't there in the N4 demo. > But i expected N4 to be the 'ultimate' nascar sim especially in the > physics department. > But to be honest nascar heat *in my opinion* beats N4 in that area > (yes...i'm still in shock about that) > The main bummer with nascar heat is the CRAP CRAP AI(and no yellows in > multi)...now if they fixed that.. > > I know i mention Nascar heat a lot, i'm not related to MGI and have no > intend to bash N4 or anything...but as i said, i expected more of N4 > but now i feel that if MGI fixes the issues with nascar heat and that > *includes* the 'no yellow flags' in multi(yes..i heard the reasons > they won't implement yellows in multi but imo the no yellow makes > online racing totally useless) nascar heat would be the better sim for > me... > Still gonna buy N4 though:)) > > Flame away:) > cheers, > Willem >

The Nascar Heat Physics are very arcadish compaired to the N4 Demo. First thing is the engine power is realistic in N4, where in NH it feels like the care either has 200hp or top fuel slicks on. Another thing is N4 doesn't have ABS like NH, you can lock'em up at any time. The other thing is the Slip angles are much better in N4, in NH you can have the car(in hardcore mode) totaly crossed up in huge slip angles and pull it in easily. But in N4 you have a hard time even catching it. The slip angles are small with the modern race tire before it REALLY breaks free and N4 models this well. Also I noticed in N4 when you downshift you have to blip the throttle or risk locking the rears. :) should be fun on a road course. Too bad in GPL the computer blips it for you. I Kept saying these things when NH came out and no one would belive me. ;) wsa wrote:

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> > Hi, > > Ok...gonna get shot for this... > Hi, > > Hi, > > First of all..i looooooooooove GPL..untill nascar heat came along GPL > was the only race sim for me...tried many..never found anything that > came close to GPL. > So allthough this might be a somewhat negative view...it's not cause > i'm biased to anything...it's just...my view..along with personal > taste. > > I was looking forward to the N4 demo for months, got it early this > morning and i've been driving it and messing around with the settings > for 6 hours now... > My impressions left me feeling somewhat disappointed.. > Here's a 'short' view on the N4*demo* > > *GUI- love it......not that i care much about the GUI..gg > > *Garage...LOTs of options...and i mean LOTS...one can spend hours > again tweaking the car if one wants to..as in GPL....spoiler goes from > 45 to 70 degrees....etc...etc.. > > *Controls... > The first "negative", i don't really like the force feedback > implementation. > I've tried and tried and tried to come up with a decent setting for my > wheel..but have yet to find a setting i like. > > Part of the reason(i suspect a large part of the reason) might be that > N4 does not have a ' trim ' setting as in nascar heat... > I know some might argue the ' trim ' ain't realistic, but in my > opinion the fact that you always have to steer to the right to keep a > straight line does not transfer well from real life to a PC > simulator...with deadzones and such(urgh) > So one big wish for the release version of nascar 4 is the > implementation of a 'trim' option in the garage.. > > Maybe within a few days or with luck my next attempt i will find FF > settings in N4 which feel good.. > So far for me nascar heat is the sim that does FF best > > *Graphics.... > Very very nice, nothing stunning....then again i'm on a system with a > TNT..it might look stunning with a GeForce. > One thing, i don't feel as ' i'm there ' in nascar 4 as i do in nascar > heat. > Now this is a pure personal taste thing but i like nascar heat's > graphics better...not because of looks, cause allthough they look > different they're both fine quality gfx engines, but for some reason > nascar heat's gfx give me more of a ' i'm in a car on a circuit ' > then N4 does. > Fps is good on a cel2 533->600 with 128mb and a TNT card. > I get between 25 and 30 fps in D3D at 800x600 16bit , with everything > maxed out, at dover downs. > > *Sound. > YUK! > now..again completely personal(can't emphasize that enough in the > newsgroup jungle)...N4 sounds...they stink... > To thin, no ooooeeemmmpfffff... > Love the sounds in nascar heat...but i've heard people saying NH > sounds suck...so:)) > > *Multiplayer, > Not tried yet. > > *Physics > Now for the people who don't hate me yet, the following might. > I feel the physics in N4 aren't as good as in nascar heat.. > > The most obvious thing is the when you drive from the bank part of a > corner..all the way and onto the 'flat' inside of a corner...do i > make sence here?(errmm...englisch ain't my main language...) > In nascar heat when you go of the main bank and you hit the 'flat' > part on the inside of a corner with the inside wheels you will have to > work to keep the car on the road and a lot of time you just spin off, > this seems very realistic if you compare it to what you see on TV > footage of nascar.. > Yet in N4 you can go full throttle on a track like dover downs which > has a high degree bank , hit the inside of a turn with the inside > wheels or all 4 wheels and then back up the banked concrete again > without problems...i've tried this dozens of times and sofar didn't > spin once and no fighting for controle when doing so. > Me not like:((( > > Now i very very vaguely remember david Kaemmer of papyrus mentioning > this in a interview many moons ago... > Something about leaving that particular car behaviour out because it > would ruin gameplay..or something along that line.....well...if this > is the case..then i suggest putting it in...VVBBGG > > Apart from that very important, at least to me, thing....the physics > feel ok to me. > Different from nascar heat, N4 seems to have very little 'push'. > When you get out of a corner wilh full power in nascar heat you can > get some serious push, in N4 there seems to be much less push.... > There are more differences...but it doesn't really matter, both sims > feels 'realistic'...allthough there are differences both do a fine job > of simulating a car...except for that very annoying bank/flat > responce(or more no repsonce) thing in N4 > Overall....my personal preference goes to nascar heat, just feels > better to me.. > > *final thoughts > > Since it's a demo there's only so much it tells about the release, one > mucho importante thing, the AI, ain't there in the N4 demo. > But i expected N4 to be the 'ultimate' nascar sim especially in the > physics department. > But to be honest nascar heat *in my opinion* beats N4 in that area > (yes...i'm still in shock about that) > The main bummer with nascar heat is the CRAP CRAP AI(and no yellows in > multi)...now if they fixed that.. > > I know i mention Nascar heat a lot, i'm not related to MGI and have no > intend to bash N4 or anything...but as i said, i expected more of N4 > but now i feel that if MGI fixes the issues with nascar heat and that > *includes* the 'no yellow flags' in multi(yes..i heard the reasons > they won't implement yellows in multi but imo the no yellow makes > online racing totally useless) nascar heat would be the better sim for > me... > Still gonna buy N4 though:)) > > Flame away:) > cheers, > Willem

-- Solo1 C-Modified (CASC-OR/BARC) 76 Trans-Am 600+hp http://www.barc-oc.com http://www.casc.on.ca

I agree....wow! I dont like the steering feel in the demo..the sound is terrible and it doesnt feel like I'm driving a car.....I'm going to tinker some more but I for one am disappointed. Heat looks way better....I play both in 1024x768-32. I know this is a demo but I dont think they sound ever changes from demo to game for Papy. Lemm go play N4 some more cause I know the multi will rule "wsa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (131 lines)

> Hi, > > Ok...gonna get shot for this... > Hi, > > Hi, > > First of all..i looooooooooove GPL..untill nascar heat came along GPL > was the only race sim for me...tried many..never found anything that > came close to GPL. > So allthough this might be a somewhat negative view...it's not cause > i'm biased to anything...it's just...my view..along with personal > taste. > > I was looking forward to the N4 demo for months, got it early this > morning and i've been driving it and messing around with the settings > for 6 hours now... > My impressions left me feeling somewhat disappointed.. > Here's a 'short' view on the N4*demo* > > *GUI- love it......not that i care much about the GUI..gg > > *Garage...LOTs of options...and i mean LOTS...one can spend hours > again tweaking the car if one wants to..as in GPL....spoiler goes from > 45 to 70 degrees....etc...etc.. > > *Controls... > The first "negative", i don't really like the force feedback > implementation. > I've tried and tried and tried to come up with a decent setting for my > wheel..but have yet to find a setting i like. > > Part of the reason(i suspect a large part of the reason) might be that > N4 does not have a ' trim ' setting as in nascar heat... > I know some might argue the ' trim ' ain't realistic, but in my > opinion the fact that you always have to steer to the right to keep a > straight line does not transfer well from real life to a PC > simulator...with deadzones and such(urgh) > So one big wish for the release version of nascar 4 is the > implementation of a 'trim' option in the garage.. > > Maybe within a few days or with luck my next attempt i will find FF > settings in N4 which feel good.. > So far for me nascar heat is the sim that does FF best > > *Graphics.... > Very very nice, nothing stunning....then again i'm on a system with a > TNT..it might look stunning with a GeForce. > One thing, i don't feel as ' i'm there ' in nascar 4 as i do in nascar > heat. > Now this is a pure personal taste thing but i like nascar heat's > graphics better...not because of looks, cause allthough they look > different they're both fine quality gfx engines, but for some reason > nascar heat's gfx give me more of a ' i'm in a car on a circuit ' > then N4 does. > Fps is good on a cel2 533->600 with 128mb and a TNT card. > I get between 25 and 30 fps in D3D at 800x600 16bit , with everything > maxed out, at dover downs. > > *Sound. > YUK! > now..again completely personal(can't emphasize that enough in the > newsgroup jungle)...N4 sounds...they stink... > To thin, no ooooeeemmmpfffff... > Love the sounds in nascar heat...but i've heard people saying NH > sounds suck...so:)) > > *Multiplayer, > Not tried yet. > > *Physics > Now for the people who don't hate me yet, the following might. > I feel the physics in N4 aren't as good as in nascar heat.. > > The most obvious thing is the when you drive from the bank part of a > corner..all the way and onto the 'flat' inside of a corner...do i > make sence here?(errmm...englisch ain't my main language...) > In nascar heat when you go of the main bank and you hit the 'flat' > part on the inside of a corner with the inside wheels you will have to > work to keep the car on the road and a lot of time you just spin off, > this seems very realistic if you compare it to what you see on TV > footage of nascar.. > Yet in N4 you can go full throttle on a track like dover downs which > has a high degree bank , hit the inside of a turn with the inside > wheels or all 4 wheels and then back up the banked concrete again > without problems...i've tried this dozens of times and sofar didn't > spin once and no fighting for controle when doing so. > Me not like:((( > > Now i very very vaguely remember david Kaemmer of papyrus mentioning > this in a interview many moons ago... > Something about leaving that particular car behaviour out because it > would ruin gameplay..or something along that line.....well...if this > is the case..then i suggest putting it in...VVBBGG > > Apart from that very important, at least to me, thing....the physics > feel ok to me. > Different from nascar heat, N4 seems to have very little 'push'. > When you get out of a corner wilh full power in nascar heat you can > get some serious push, in N4 there seems to be much less push.... > There are more differences...but it doesn't really matter, both sims > feels 'realistic'...allthough there are differences both do a fine job > of simulating a car...except for that very annoying bank/flat > responce(or more no repsonce) thing in N4 > Overall....my personal preference goes to nascar heat, just feels > better to me.. > > *final thoughts > > Since it's a demo there's only so much it tells about the release, one > mucho importante thing, the AI, ain't there in the N4 demo. > But i expected N4 to be the 'ultimate' nascar sim especially in the > physics department. > But to be honest nascar heat *in my opinion* beats N4 in that area > (yes...i'm still in shock about that) > The main bummer with nascar heat is the CRAP CRAP AI(and no yellows in > multi)...now if they fixed that.. > > I know i mention Nascar heat a lot, i'm not related to MGI and have no > intend to bash N4 or anything...but as i said, i expected more of N4 > but now i feel that if MGI fixes the issues with nascar heat and that > *includes* the 'no yellow flags' in multi(yes..i heard the reasons > they won't implement yellows in multi but imo the no yellow makes > online racing totally useless) nascar heat would be the better sim for > me... > Still gonna buy N4 though:)) > > Flame away:) > cheers, > Willem >

"Alan Orton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> The Nascar Heat Physics are very arcadish compaired to the N4 Demo. > First thing is the engine power is realistic in N4, where in NH it feels > like the care either has 200hp or top fuel slicks on. Another thing is > N4 doesn't have ABS like NH, you can lock'em up at any time. The other > thing is the Slip angles are much better in N4, in NH you can have the > car(in hardcore mode) totaly crossed up in huge slip angles and pull it > in easily. But in N4 you have a hard time even catching it. The slip > angles are small with the modern race tire before it REALLY breaks free > and N4 models this well. > Also I noticed in N4 when you downshift you have to blip the throttle or > risk locking the rears. :) should be fun on a road course. Too bad in > GPL the computer blips it for you. > > I Kept saying these things when NH came out and no one would belive me. > ;)

Ahhh, that sounds cool. The unlockable brakes always bothered me in N3. That realistic downshift thing sounds like fun too. Could be a bitch for people who right foot brake, though. I can heel-toe in my real car, but with these plastic pedals? Yuck. Can't wait to try it. Should only take about six hours to finish downloading. :)

I agree with almost everything, but I have to totally dissagree about the phsyics. In N4, they are superb. Much better than NH. I can 'feel' the car much more, where as in NH, it was just very numb and hard to know what the car was doing. N4 is also much more progressive. You can feel when the front end is pushing, or when the back end is coming around and you can drive closer the edge, much easier. I'm impressed with N4. I don't think it's the best sim ever, and I don't derive the same amount of pleasure as I do from GPL, but it's still right up there with the best sims to date. James "wsa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Hi, > > Ok...gonna get shot for this... > Hi, > > Hi, > > First of all..i looooooooooove GPL..untill nascar heat came along GPL > was the only race sim for me...tried many..never found anything that > came close to GPL. > So allthough this might be a somewhat negative view...it's not cause > i'm biased to anything...it's just...my view..along with personal > taste. > > I was looking forward to the N4 demo for months, got it early this > morning and i've been driving it and messing around with the settings > for 6 hours now... > My impressions left me feeling somewhat disappointed.. > Here's a 'short' view on the N4*demo* > > *GUI- love it......not that i care much about the GUI..gg > > *Garage...LOTs of options...and i mean LOTS...one can spend hours > again tweaking the car if one wants to..as in GPL....spoiler goes from > 45 to 70 degrees....etc...etc.. > > *Controls... > The first "negative", i don't really like the force feedback > implementation. > I've tried and tried and tried to come up with a decent setting for my > wheel..but have yet to find a setting i like. > > Part of the reason(i suspect a large part of the reason) might be that > N4 does not have a ' trim ' setting as in nascar heat... > I know some might argue the ' trim ' ain't realistic, but in my > opinion the fact that you always have to steer to the right to keep a > straight line does not transfer well from real life to a PC > simulator...with deadzones and such(urgh) > So one big wish for the release version of nascar 4 is the > implementation of a 'trim' option in the garage.. > > Maybe within a few days or with luck my next attempt i will find FF > settings in N4 which feel good.. > So far for me nascar heat is the sim that does FF best > > *Graphics.... > Very very nice, nothing stunning....then again i'm on a system with a > TNT..it might look stunning with a GeForce. > One thing, i don't feel as ' i'm there ' in nascar 4 as i do in nascar > heat. > Now this is a pure personal taste thing but i like nascar heat's > graphics better...not because of looks, cause allthough they look > different they're both fine quality gfx engines, but for some reason > nascar heat's gfx give me more of a ' i'm in a car on a circuit ' > then N4 does. > Fps is good on a cel2 533->600 with 128mb and a TNT card. > I get between 25 and 30 fps in D3D at 800x600 16bit , with everything > maxed out, at dover downs. > > *Sound. > YUK! > now..again completely personal(can't emphasize that enough in the > newsgroup jungle)...N4 sounds...they stink... > To thin, no ooooeeemmmpfffff... > Love the sounds in nascar heat...but i've heard people saying NH > sounds suck...so:)) > > *Multiplayer, > Not tried yet. > > *Physics > Now for the people who don't hate me yet, the following might. > I feel the physics in N4 aren't as good as in nascar heat.. > > The most obvious thing is the when you drive from the bank part of a > corner..all the way and onto the 'flat' inside of a corner...do i > make sence here?(errmm...englisch ain't my main language...) > In nascar heat when you go of the main bank and you hit the 'flat' > part on the inside of a corner with the inside wheels you will have to > work to keep the car on the road and a lot of time you just spin off, > this seems very realistic if you compare it to what you see on TV > footage of nascar.. > Yet in N4 you can go full throttle on a track like dover downs which > has a high degree bank , hit the inside of a turn with the inside > wheels or all 4 wheels and then back up the banked concrete again > without problems...i've tried this dozens of times and sofar didn't > spin once and no fighting for controle when doing so. > Me not like:((( > > Now i very very vaguely remember david Kaemmer of papyrus mentioning > this in a interview many moons ago... > Something about leaving that particular car behaviour out because it > would ruin gameplay..or something along that line.....well...if this > is the case..then i suggest putting it in...VVBBGG > > Apart from that very important, at least to me, thing....the physics > feel ok to me. > Different from nascar heat, N4 seems to have very little 'push'. > When you get out of a corner wilh full power in nascar heat you can > get some serious push, in N4 there seems to be much less push.... > There are more differences...but it doesn't really matter, both sims > feels 'realistic'...allthough there are differences both do a fine job > of simulating a car...except for that very annoying bank/flat > responce(or more no repsonce) thing in N4 > Overall....my personal preference goes to nascar heat, just feels > better to me.. > > *final thoughts > > Since it's a demo there's only so much it tells about the release, one > mucho importante thing, the AI, ain't there in the N4 demo. > But i expected N4 to be the 'ultimate' nascar sim especially in the > physics department. > But to be honest nascar heat *in my opinion* beats N4 in that area > (yes...i'm still in shock about that) > The main bummer with nascar heat is the CRAP CRAP AI(and no yellows in > multi)...now if they fixed that.. > > I know i mention Nascar heat a lot, i'm not related to MGI and have no > intend to bash N4 or anything...but as i said, i expected more of N4 > but now i feel that if MGI fixes the issues with nascar heat and that > *includes* the 'no yellow flags' in multi(yes..i heard the reasons > they won't implement yellows in multi but imo the no yellow makes > online racing totally useless) nascar heat would be the better sim for > me... > Still gonna buy N4 though:)) > > Flame away:) > cheers, > Willem >