Re: New F1 Championship Season 2000 preview

The track inaccuracies in F1 2000 were well-documented here and in other forums -- we already know where F1 2000 had problems, and which tracks they got mostly right. I've been playing F1 2000, F1WGP, and GP3 pretty exclusively for the past few months, but there are still a few venues that I have not attempted to run, so I did not address them. I am not familiar with the entire F1 circuit, but I am fairly familiar with several tracks, including Spa, Monaco, Monza, Suzuka, and Hockenhiem from back in the days of GP2, and from watching these races as a casual F1 television observer over the years. I also borrowed a page from Randy Magruder and downloaded several in-car AVI files from the web showing complete laps of some of these circuits for comparison. I was fortunate enough to witness the building of the Indy track at several points during its construction; I have had the opportunity to walk through several portions of that track personally (I have actually driven on the oval portion, in fact), and I was there in person to watch the inaugural event in all its soggy, rainy glory (not to mention re-watching the taped TV broadcast several times since). I went to fairly great lengths to compare these particular tracks in F1CS2K to their F1 2000 counterparts, to actual in-car laps in AVI files downloaded from the Web, and also to their virtual counterparts in GP3 and F1WGP (it's two closest competitors in the current F1 sim market, but, of course, I do use "sim" loosely when referring to F1WGP). From the standpoint of the FOA, using the F1 license for video games ("sims") serves as a marketing tool -- the game is an advertisement unto itself, and it is designed to generate additional revenue from the existing fan base in much the same way as race programs and T-shirts bring in additional revenue. At the same time, video games ("sims") are also used to attract new fans into the fold by bringing the appeal of the series to a new audience (video gamers in general, as well as the existing, albeit small, sim racing community). In this respect, both F1 2000 and F1CS2K have both been successful based on the fact that they have piqued MY curiousity about F1, because I now find myself following articles and news reports about what's happing in F1 (and searching them out, in fact), whereas before I started playing around with F1 2000 and F1CS2K, I pretty much didn't pay very much attention at all to F1. Granted, the US Grand Prix also helped stir my interest, but it was the ability to actually immerse myself in the USGP experience via F1 2000 that really got me going. In that regard, F1 should be pleased with the efforts of EA and ISI. Die-hard F1 fans may still find the color of some curbs to be too inaccurate for their tastes, and the occasional trackside elm tree where an oak should be may spoil the experience for the true F1 afficionado, but for most sim racers, casual fans, and Johnny-come- lately fans like myself, the track realism will undoubtedly be "close enough." Besides, why should it matter -- N4 is out, and, after all, F1CS2K isn't GPL, so who cares anyway? <SMIRK> ;-) -- JB In article <4gzV5.8998$[email hidden]>, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote: > ><[email hidden]> wrote > > There's an in-depth preview on the Blackhole Motorsports site: > > http://www.bhmotorsports.com/reviews.htm > > I quote "Since I'm unfamiliar with most of the tracks on thecircuit". How > can you review a Formula 1 simulation (rating it's physics, it'sgameplay, > the track accuracy) when you clearly do not have a good knowledge ofFormula

Quoted text (9 lines)

> 1 ? > > I'm missing something here John? > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.WeRace.net > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't

realise > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

LOL! Glad to see that somebody caught the Lazier reference! Speaking of CART, wouldn't it be great to see them run the Indy road course in reverse? <G> -- JB In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (TRUSRS85) wrote: > IRL LEMMING !!!!! > > VIVA CART!!!! > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

>LOL! Glad to see that somebody caught the Lazier reference! > >Speaking of CART, wouldn't it be great to see them run the Indy road >course in reverse? <G> HERETIC TO THE OPEN WHEEL CAUSE! :) Buddy Lazzier was a backmarker in CART :) CART is not allowed at Indy TG and Benrie hates us. God Damn Conspiracy!!!!!! We need a new CART sim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Every GOD DAMN FORM OF RACING HAS A NEW GAME EXCEPT CART!! WTF IS THIS BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good question. I've heard the reference before... good time to find out what it's about. Search Engine time. Jan. =--- Amp wrote... > <snip> > > Who's Randy Magruder?

There's an in-depth preview on the Blackhole Motorsports site: http://www.bhmotorsports.com/reviews.htm It's a fairly detailed look at F1CS2K, but the reviewer seems to be some Randy Magruder wannabe. ;-) Enjoy! -- JB Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Enjoyed the preview. Looks like a hit! gil

IRL LEMMING !!!!! VIVA CART!!!!

><[email hidden]> wrote > There's an in-depth preview on the Blackhole Motorsports site: > http://www.bhmotorsports.com/reviews.htm I quote "Since I'm unfamiliar with most of the tracks on the circuit". How can you review a Formula 1 simulation (rating it's physics, it's gameplay, the track accuracy) when you clearly do not have a good knowledge of Formula 1 ? I'm missing something here John? -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

><[email hidden]> wrote > The track inaccuracies in F1 2000 were well-documented here and in > other forums -- we already know where F1 2000 had problems, and which > tracks they got mostly right. Good to know I wasn't shouting for nothing about the poor tracks ;) <snip nice point> Okie. > Besides, why should it matter -- N4 is out, and, after all, F1CS2K > isn't GPL, so who cares anyway? Exactly ;) Oh and please everybody download the ENGLISH MBTR demo. It's well worth it ;) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

On Thu, 30 Nov 2000 20:33:58 GMT, [email hidden] thus spoke: >It's a fairly detailed look at F1CS2K, but the reviewer seems to be >some Randy Magruder wannabe. Who's Randy Magruder?

On Thu, 30 Nov 2000 22:02:26 GMT, [email hidden] wrote: > I also borrowed a >page from Randy Magruder and downloaded several in-car AVI files from >the web showing complete laps of some of these circuits for >comparison. Where? Where!? :) /Magnus GPLRank hcp: -33.78

www.digitalsports.com Randy is one of the reviewers ... does great reviews as far as I'm concerned. Find a reviewer that has similar tastes to yours and you're set ;) Shane Jan Verschueren <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Good question. I've heard the reference before... good time to find outwhat

Quoted text (10 lines)

> it's about. Search Engine time. > > Jan. > =--- > Amp wrote... > > <snip> > > > > Who's Randy Magruder? > >

Thanks... Jan. =--- Shane Lowry wrote... > www.digitalsports.com Randy is one of the reviewers ... > does great reviews as far as I'm concerned. Find a reviewer > that has similar tastes to yours and you're set ;) > > Shane

> > Oh and please everybody download the ENGLISH MBTR demo. It's well worthit > ;) But...ARE ALL they have in the MB demo, trucks??? Wouldn't it be great if they had say......CHAMP CARS???? heheh dave henrie

In article <ArAV5.33563$[email hidden]>, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote: > ><[email hidden]> wrote <SNIP> > <snip nice point> Okie. Thanks! <G> > Oh and please everybody download the ENGLISH MBTR demo. It's wellworth it NO! I have downloaded the multi-language demo, and I am going to install the French version just to see how much of my three years' worth of French I retained from high school! Ou est la salle de bains, anyway??? ;-) -- JB Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Randy does reviews for the Digital Sports site (http://www.digitalsports.com/). He does some GREAT reviews, and he's a great guy, too (aside from the fact that he's not an IRL fan, that is! <G>). -- JB In article <[email hidden]>, noemail wrote:

Quoted text (7 lines)

> On Thu, 30 Nov 2000 20:33:58 GMT, [email hidden] thus spoke: > > >It's a fairly detailed look at F1CS2K, but the reviewer seems to be > >some Randy Magruder wannabe. > > Who's Randy Magruder? >

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

In article <[email hidden]>, Magnus Svensson <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (8 lines)

> On Thu, 30 Nov 2000 22:02:26 GMT, [email hidden] wrote: > > > I also borrowed a > >page from Randy Magruder and downloaded several in-car AVI files from > >the web showing complete laps of some of these circuits for > >comparison. > > Where? Where!? :)

You would ask that, wouldn't you? I don't have those bookmarks on this computer, but there's a Russian site that has an AWESOME collection of F1 videos. I'll try to find the bookmark and post it later on. -- JB Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (TRUSRS85) wrote: > >LOL! Glad to see that somebody caught the Lazier reference! > > > >Speaking of CART, wouldn't it be great to see them run the Indy road > >course in reverse? <G> > > HERETIC TO THE OPEN WHEEL CAUSE! :) <chuckle> > Buddy Lazier was a backmarker in CART :) He ALWAYS had crappy equipment, though, so you can't judge by that! <G> > CART is not allowed at Indy Don't tell Chip Ganassi or Roger Penske that . . . <G> > TG and Benrie hates us. God Damn Conspiracy!!!!!! Hehehe! > We need a new CART sim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Okay, I agree with you on this one! > Every GOD DAMN FORM OF RACING HAS A NEW GAME EXCEPT CART!! Hey! All the IRL got was a crappy Nintendo arcade racer -- that hardly counts! How about a combined IRL/CART sim, once they find some way to reconcile their differences and choose to collaborate in much the same way the American League and the National League collaborate in baseball? <G> > WTF IS THIS BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hmmm . . . my thoughts exactly! ;-) -- JB Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Found the link -- the downloads are large, but there are some great videos: http://www.f-1.ru/video/index_e.html Enjoy! -- JB In article <906t54$3bl$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] wrote: > In article <[email hidden]>, > Magnus Svensson <[email hidden]> wrote: > > On Thu, 30 Nov 2000 22:02:26 GMT, [email hidden] wrote: > > > > > I also borrowed a > > >page from Randy Magruder and downloaded several in-car AVI filesfrom > > >the web showing complete laps of some of these circuits for > > >comparison. > > > > Where? Where!? :) > > You would ask that, wouldn't you? I don't have those bookmarks onthis

Quoted text (8 lines)

> computer, but there's a Russian site that has an AWESOME collection of > F1 videos. I'll try to find the bookmark and post it later on. > > -- JB > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy. >

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Quoted text (36 lines)

>> HERETIC TO THE OPEN WHEEL CAUSE! :) > ><chuckle> > >> Buddy Lazier was a backmarker in CART :) > >He ALWAYS had crappy equipment, though, so you can't judge by that! <G> > >> CART is not allowed at Indy > >Don't tell Chip Ganassi or Roger Penske that . . . <G> > >> TG and Benrie hates us. God Damn Conspiracy!!!!!! > >Hehehe! > >> We need a new CART sim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > >Okay, I agree with you on this one! > >> Every GOD DAMN FORM OF RACING HAS A NEW GAME EXCEPT CART!! > >Hey! All the IRL got was a crappy Nintendo arcade racer -- that hardly >counts! How about a combined IRL/CART sim, once they find some way to >reconcile their differences and choose to collaborate in much the same >way the American League and the National League collaborate in >baseball? <G> > >> WTF IS THIS BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > >Hmmm . . . my thoughts exactly! > >;-) > >-- JB >

Fine, that is true, Lazier did have crappy cars so we will leave it at that CART is not allowed at Indy Roger and Chip are running an an IRL race CART has no race at Indy and I don't forsee 1 in the future because everybody hates us and is jealous of us because we have the best racing on earth! IRL has net race live hahaha perfect for them CART and the IRL can't unify the philosiphies are so different now WE NEEEEED A NEW CART SIM!!!!

>Randy does reviews for the Digital Sports site >(http://www.digitalsports.com/). He does some GREAT reviews, and he's >a great guy, too (aside from the fact that he's not an IRL fan, that >is! <G>). Randy is a very smart man! :) VIVA CART!!!

On Fri, 01 Dec 2000 03:21:53 GMT, [email hidden] wrote: >Found the link -- the downloads are large, but there are some great >videos: > >http://www.f-1.ru/video/index_e.html > >Enjoy! Wow, thanks... there's some good stuff over there(although they seem a bit obsessed with somewhat macabre crash clips)! /Magnus GPLRank hcp: -33.78

In article <906smt$2vc$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] writes: >NO! I have downloaded the multi-language demo, and I am going to >install the French version just to see how much of my three years' >worth of French I retained from high school! Ou est la salle de bains, >anyway??? > In the gas station on the corner...<g> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +44.17 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Thu, 30 Nov 2000 20:33:58 GMT, [email hidden] wrote: >There's an in-depth preview on the Blackhole Motorsports site: "Thankfully, F1CS2K addresses this issue with an optimized graphics engine that should allow for better performance on even midrange systems. " I'm afraid I can't agree with this. I won't buy it due to poor graphics/performance on my P3 500/TNT2 (and I won't even dare try the demo on my P2 300/Voodoo2 - I'm afraid of hurting my eyes!). While it does run better than the original version, the graphics are for some reason highly pixelated in this game. 800x600 looks like 640x480 or even 512x384, so much so that it's highly distracting and makes it harder to drive. It 1024x768 the graphics are finally looking OK, but the frame-rate suffers - the stuttering of background textures in tuning is awful. I think I have enough CPU power for the game, but I wouldn't recommend it for anyone with less than a GeForce2 or Voodoo5. The game desperately needs to be run at 1024x768+, and the TNT2 can't handle that while keeping the frame-rate up. "I was pleased to discover that I didn't have to scale back the details as much in F1CS2K in order to achieve frame rates in the low 20s..." Ah, that explains why we disagree about the graphics. Low 20s is not really a tolerable frame-rate for me in a driving simulation.

Joe, I have an Athlon 600 and a 16 MB TNT2 Ultra, so your PIII/TNT2 system should have enough "oomph" to do the trick (the PII/Voodoo3 should work, too). You might check out my post on the High Gear forum about recommended settings to optimize the graphics for F1CS2K: http://forums.simracingnews.com/ubb/Forum13/HTML/002090.html As for the pixellation, you might want to enable mip mapping to see if that helps -- there's no button to enable it as there was in F1 2000, but you can do so manually: You will find the "yourname.plr" file inside your name folder or player folder if you haven't created a player profile yet which is inside the "save" folder of your F1CS2000 directory -- there is an option in that file called "mimap," and you'll want to change the value from 0 to 1. You can use notepad to open the .plr file. As for the issue of 20 fps being "tolerable," all I can say is that once you get things tweaked right, 20 fps in F1CS2K feels as smooth as 36 fps in GPL. More is better, but answer this: How did GPL run with a full field of cars back when you were running a Pentium Classic running at 166 MHz (or so) with a first-generation Voodoo card a few years back? What was "tolerable" back then, and what types of graphical concessions did you make (or were you willing to make) in order to run GPL? -- JB In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Joe McGinn) wrote:

Quoted text (31 lines)

> On Thu, 30 Nov 2000 20:33:58 GMT, [email hidden] wrote: > > >There's an in-depth preview on the Blackhole Motorsports site: > > "Thankfully, F1CS2K addresses this issue with an optimized graphics > engine that should allow for better performance on even midrange > systems. " > > I'm afraid I can't agree with this. I won't buy it due to poor > graphics/performance on my P3 500/TNT2 (and I won't even dare try the > demo on my P2 300/Voodoo2 - I'm afraid of hurting my eyes!). > > While it does run better than the original version, the graphics are > for some reason highly pixelated in this game. 800x600 looks like > 640x480 or even 512x384, so much so that it's highly distracting and > makes it harder to drive. It 1024x768 the graphics are finally looking > OK, but the frame-rate suffers - the stuttering of background textures > in tuning is awful. > > I think I have enough CPU power for the game, but I wouldn't recommend > it for anyone with less than a GeForce2 or Voodoo5. The game > desperately needs to be run at 1024x768+, and the TNT2 can't handle > that while keeping the frame-rate up. > > "I was pleased to discover that I didn't have to scale back the > details as much in F1CS2K in order to achieve frame rates in the low > 20s..." > > Ah, that explains why we disagree about the graphics. Low 20s is not > really a tolerable frame-rate for me in a driving simulation. >

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Gloating time....I scaled back the graphics some but added the 4xfsaa and with my V5 and just like SCGT the images cleaned up VERY WELL. Programs that implement the graphics like SCGT and F1CS2k are made for FSAA. I am pleased with my combo even with a PIII 500 holding me back. dave henrie "Joe McGinn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (30 lines)

> On Thu, 30 Nov 2000 20:33:58 GMT, [email hidden] wrote: > > >There's an in-depth preview on the Blackhole Motorsports site: > > "Thankfully, F1CS2K addresses this issue with an optimized graphics > engine that should allow for better performance on even midrange > systems. " > > I'm afraid I can't agree with this. I won't buy it due to poor > graphics/performance on my P3 500/TNT2 (and I won't even dare try the > demo on my P2 300/Voodoo2 - I'm afraid of hurting my eyes!). > > While it does run better than the original version, the graphics are > for some reason highly pixelated in this game. 800x600 looks like > 640x480 or even 512x384, so much so that it's highly distracting and > makes it harder to drive. It 1024x768 the graphics are finally looking > OK, but the frame-rate suffers - the stuttering of background textures > in tuning is awful. > > I think I have enough CPU power for the game, but I wouldn't recommend > it for anyone with less than a GeForce2 or Voodoo5. The game > desperately needs to be run at 1024x768+, and the TNT2 can't handle > that while keeping the frame-rate up. > > "I was pleased to discover that I didn't have to scale back the > details as much in F1CS2K in order to achieve frame rates in the low > 20s..." > > Ah, that explains why we disagree about the graphics. Low 20s is not > really a tolerable frame-rate for me in a driving simulation.

In article <90ri5b$5a0$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] writes: >As for the issue of 20 fps being "tolerable," all I can say is that >once you get things tweaked right, 20 fps in F1CS2K feels as smooth as >36 fps in GPL. More is better, but answer this: How did GPL run with >a full field of cars back when you were running a Pentium Classic >running at 166 MHz (or so) with a first-generation Voodoo card a few >years back? Bluntly, it SUCKED... >What was "tolerable" back then, and what types of >graphical concessions did you make (or were you willing to make) in >order to run GPL?I put it back on the shelf until I had a system that could *run* it...<g> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +40.48 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I've been doing some tests ... so far just in 'test track' mode where I'm the only one on the track. I have a PII 300 (@374) + 64Mb RAM + 12MbVoodoo2. I'm runnig F1CS2000 at 640x640, have everything on max excelt all the 'special effets' like dust, skidmarks and shoke - they are all on low. Then I have the drawing distance on 68% and detail distance at 120% (for at 100%). Then mirrors on medium. With thse setting when I go to Monza or Melbourne (haven't relly been anywhere else) I get framerate between 20 ans 30fps. Though, the moment I swith the mirrors to 'low' I get framerate between 30 and 45fps - 90% of the time it hovers on about 37fps. I'd say that is more or less perfect fps for me (not that more is not better :-). Not sure what 'other cars' will do to my fps, but at the moment I am amazed how well it runs. oh, and I have the 'systems rating' in the config.ini set on 4. In contrast to GPL on my PC - GPL gives me constant 36fps with all the cars on the raod and everything swithed on. Though, at the back of 19 cars on the starting grip I can drop down to 26fps for a sec or two. Though, this is running though my Thriller3D (Rendition) card. -- Regards, David Mocnay "Joe McGinn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Thu, 30 Nov 2000 20:33:58 GMT, [email hidden] wrote: > > >There's an in-depth preview on the Blackhole Motorsports site: > > "Thankfully, F1CS2K addresses this issue with an optimized graphics > engine that should allow for better performance on even midrange > systems. " > > I'm afraid I can't agree with this. I won't buy it due to poor > graphics/performance on my P3 500/TNT2 (and I won't even dare try the > demo on my P2 300/Voodoo2 - I'm afraid of hurting my eyes!). > > While it does run better than the original version, the graphics are > for some reason highly pixelated in this game. 800x600 looks like > 640x480 or even 512x384, so much so that it's highly distracting and > makes it harder to drive. It 1024x768 the graphics are finally looking > OK, but the frame-rate suffers - the stuttering of background textures > in tuning is awful. > > I think I have enough CPU power for the game, but I wouldn't recommend > it for anyone with less than a GeForce2 or Voodoo5. The game > desperately needs to be run at 1024x768+, and the TNT2 can't handle > that while keeping the frame-rate up. > > "I was pleased to discover that I didn't have to scale back the > details as much in F1CS2K in order to achieve frame rates in the low > 20s..." > > Ah, that explains why we disagree about the graphics. Low 20s is not > really a tolerable frame-rate for me in a driving simulation.