GPL - is this it?

We keep (kept?) going on about GPL's longevity and popularity in this NG. I'd say the most important factors in this are(were?) the ease (comparatively with other sims) of multiplayer, and the fact that we knew anyone who beat us did it because they were faster. The latter has now gone. To be pessimistic for a moment, I think there's a slight chance (though I hope it doesn't happen) that VROC (if not the organised leagues) could have been holed below the waterline. THe thing about pickup races is that you often don't know your opponents. This is exciting, as you get a new challenge each time, but equally everything works on trust. There aren't a huge number of VROCcers in any case - as I type there are 80-odd drivers online - and if half of those were to go, I think we might be getting below the critical mass needed to sustain VROC as a worthwhile pursuit. No-one's going to bother if the races only have 3 or 4 cars all the time. I think the leagues will keep going, as they can be administered more closely, but for a lot of people (me!) a regular scheduled race just isn't possible. If pickup racing stopped, I'd be forced to go back to racing the AI - which, apart from anything else, lacks the social interaction that makes online racing so much fun. It's clear that this util can't be squashed (unless Papy release GPL 1.3 especially for that purpose...), so we either have to make it "officially legal" or rely on people being honest, which GPLRank has shown is the case most of the time, but not all. I'll nail my colours to the mast here - I'm extremely unhappy to see this development, and thing the harm it does in increasing suspicion will greatly outweigh the benefits of innovation. Personally, I will not use this patch online, even if someone finds a way to show it on the timesheets. Obviously, I might have to think again if *everyone* used it, but I sincerely hope not. One possibility - VROC already allows hosters to restrict what chassis people drive. Could it be extended to restrict engine choice? We've now come to the crunch - is GPL's much-vaunted "gentlemanly behaviour" all it's cracked up to be? If it isn't, then GPL becomes just another racing game. -- David. (GPLRank handicap: -5.92) The GPL Scrapyard - http://www.hillclimbfan.f2s.com "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.

whats wrong with mating good engines with better chassis? id bet every driver in 67 wouldve relished the chance to try different combinations... pez David Buttery <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> We keep (kept?) going on about GPL's longevity and popularity in this NG. > I'd say the most important factors in this are(were?) the ease > (comparatively with other sims) of multiplayer, and the fact that we knew > anyone who beat us did it because they were faster. The latter has now > gone. > > To be pessimistic for a moment, I think there's a slight chance (though I > hope it doesn't happen) that VROC (if not the organised leagues) could

have

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> been holed below the waterline. THe thing about pickup races is that you > often don't know your opponents. This is exciting, as you get a new > challenge each time, but equally everything works on trust. > > There aren't a huge number of VROCcers in any case - as I type there are > 80-odd drivers online - and if half of those were to go, I think we might > be getting below the critical mass needed to sustain VROC as a worthwhile > pursuit. No-one's going to bother if the races only have 3 or 4 cars all > the time. > > I think the leagues will keep going, as they can be administered more > closely, but for a lot of people (me!) a regular scheduled race just isn't > possible. If pickup racing stopped, I'd be forced to go back to racing the > AI - which, apart from anything else, lacks the social interaction that > makes online racing so much fun. > > It's clear that this util can't be squashed (unless Papy release GPL 1.3 > especially for that purpose...), so we either have to make it "officially > legal" or rely on people being honest, which GPLRank has shown is the case > most of the time, but not all. > > I'll nail my colours to the mast here - I'm extremely unhappy to see this > development, and thing the harm it does in increasing suspicion will > greatly outweigh the benefits of innovation. Personally, I will not use > this patch online, even if someone finds a way to show it on the > timesheets. Obviously, I might have to think again if *everyone* used it, > but I sincerely hope not. > > One possibility - VROC already allows hosters to restrict what chassis > people drive. Could it be extended to restrict engine choice? > > We've now come to the crunch - is GPL's much-vaunted "gentlemanly > behaviour" all it's cracked up to be? If it isn't, then GPL becomes just > another racing game. > > -- > David. (GPLRank handicap: -5.92) > The GPL Scrapyard - http://www.hillclimbfan.f2s.com > "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll,

really" - > Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.

Of course they wanted to try it. But they would have also understood the wight penalties, changes in weight distribution that would have occured etc. This won't happen in GPL, as only BHP and torque curve is 'copied' over to the chassis. Gavin 'Sharknose' Thomas "Alexpez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:90rqq3$1e5$[email hidden]...

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> whats wrong with mating good engines with better chassis? > > id bet every driver in 67 wouldve relished the chance to try different > combinations... > > pez > David Buttery <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > We keep (kept?) going on about GPL's longevity and popularity in this

NG. > > I'd say the most important factors in this are(were?) the ease > > (comparatively with other sims) of multiplayer, and the fact that weknew > > anyone who beat us did it because they were faster. The latter has now > > gone. > > > > To be pessimistic for a moment, I think there's a slight chance (thoughI

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> > hope it doesn't happen) that VROC (if not the organised leagues) could > have > > been holed below the waterline. THe thing about pickup races is that you > > often don't know your opponents. This is exciting, as you get a new > > challenge each time, but equally everything works on trust. > > > > There aren't a huge number of VROCcers in any case - as I type there are > > 80-odd drivers online - and if half of those were to go, I think we

might > > be getting below the critical mass needed to sustain VROC as aworthwhile > > pursuit. No-one's going to bother if the races only have 3 or 4 cars all > > the time. > > > > I think the leagues will keep going, as they can be administered more > > closely, but for a lot of people (me!) a regular scheduled race justisn't > > possible. If pickup racing stopped, I'd be forced to go back to racingthe > > AI - which, apart from anything else, lacks the social interaction that > > makes online racing so much fun. > > > > It's clear that this util can't be squashed (unless Papy release GPL 1.3 > > especially for that purpose...), so we either have to make it"officially > > legal" or rely on people being honest, which GPLRank has shown is thecase > > most of the time, but not all. > > > > I'll nail my colours to the mast here - I'm extremely unhappy to seethis > > development, and thing the harm it does in increasing suspicion will > > greatly outweigh the benefits of innovation. Personally, I will not use > > this patch online, even if someone finds a way to show it on the > > timesheets. Obviously, I might have to think again if *everyone* usedit,

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> > but I sincerely hope not. > > > > One possibility - VROC already allows hosters to restrict what chassis > > people drive. Could it be extended to restrict engine choice? > > > > We've now come to the crunch - is GPL's much-vaunted "gentlemanly > > behaviour" all it's cracked up to be? If it isn't, then GPL becomes just > > another racing game. > > > > -- > > David. (GPLRank handicap: -5.92) > > The GPL Scrapyard - http://www.hillclimbfan.f2s.com > > "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, > really" - > > Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh. > >

that isnt very realistic. Kinda makes my reply to a post from earlier today not applicable. charlie b "Gavin Thomas" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:90rrf2$rb4$[email hidden]... > Of course they wanted to try it. But they would have also understood the > wight penalties, changes in weight distribution that would have occuredetc.

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> > This won't happen in GPL, as only BHP and torque curve is 'copied' over to > the chassis. > > Gavin 'Sharknose' Thomas > > > "Alexpez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:90rqq3$1e5$[email hidden]... > > whats wrong with mating good engines with better chassis? > > > > id bet every driver in 67 wouldve relished the chance to try different > > combinations... > > > > pez > > David Buttery <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > We keep (kept?) going on about GPL's longevity and popularity in this > NG. > > > I'd say the most important factors in this are(were?) the ease > > > (comparatively with other sims) of multiplayer, and the fact that we > knew > > > anyone who beat us did it because they were faster. The latter has now > > > gone. > > > > > > To be pessimistic for a moment, I think there's a slight chance

(though > I > > > hope it doesn't happen) that VROC (if not the organised leagues) could > > have > > > been holed below the waterline. THe thing about pickup races is thatyou > > > often don't know your opponents. This is exciting, as you get a new > > > challenge each time, but equally everything works on trust. > > > > > > There aren't a huge number of VROCcers in any case - as I type thereare > > > 80-odd drivers online - and if half of those were to go, I think we > might > > > be getting below the critical mass needed to sustain VROC as a > worthwhile > > > pursuit. No-one's going to bother if the races only have 3 or 4 carsall

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> > > the time. > > > > > > I think the leagues will keep going, as they can be administered more > > > closely, but for a lot of people (me!) a regular scheduled race just > isn't > > > possible. If pickup racing stopped, I'd be forced to go back to racing > the > > > AI - which, apart from anything else, lacks the social interaction

that > > > makes online racing so much fun. > > > > > > It's clear that this util can't be squashed (unless Papy release GPL1.3

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> > > especially for that purpose...), so we either have to make it > "officially > > > legal" or rely on people being honest, which GPLRank has shown is the > case > > > most of the time, but not all. > > > > > > I'll nail my colours to the mast here - I'm extremely unhappy to see > this > > > development, and thing the harm it does in increasing suspicion will > > > greatly outweigh the benefits of innovation. Personally, I will not

use

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> > > this patch online, even if someone finds a way to show it on the > > > timesheets. Obviously, I might have to think again if *everyone* used > it, > > > but I sincerely hope not. > > > > > > One possibility - VROC already allows hosters to restrict what chassis > > > people drive. Could it be extended to restrict engine choice? > > > > > > We've now come to the crunch - is GPL's much-vaunted "gentlemanly > > > behaviour" all it's cracked up to be? If it isn't, then GPL becomes

just

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> > > another racing game. > > > > > > -- > > > David. (GPLRank handicap: -5.92) > > > The GPL Scrapyard - http://www.hillclimbfan.f2s.com > > > "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, > > really" - > > > Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh. > > > > > > >

In article <[email hidden]>, David Buttery <[email hidden]> writes

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>We keep (kept?) going on about GPL's longevity and popularity in this NG. >I'd say the most important factors in this are(were?) the ease >(comparatively with other sims) of multiplayer, and the fact that we knew >anyone who beat us did it because they were faster. The latter has now >gone. > >To be pessimistic for a moment, I think there's a slight chance (though I >hope it doesn't happen) that VROC (if not the organised leagues) could have >been holed below the waterline. THe thing about pickup races is that you >often don't know your opponents. This is exciting, as you get a new >challenge each time, but equally everything works on trust. > >There aren't a huge number of VROCcers in any case - as I type there are >80-odd drivers online - and if half of those were to go, I think we might >be getting below the critical mass needed to sustain VROC as a worthwhile >pursuit. No-one's going to bother if the races only have 3 or 4 cars all >the time. >

Is racing in VROC really about winning? I certainly hope not. I would much rather have a close dice with someone and come second than disappear into the distance for an easy victory. Sure there are those who dish out the abuse at the drop of a hat, who will no doubt be hurling insinuations around about various victories and how they were achieved, but in general they are few and far between. I'm neither in favour or against this new utility though, yet I doubt it is going to create cars that can suddenly perform seconds faster than they used to. Besides, like I said, we are racers all on VROC aren't we? There for the thrill of the racing and not just the winning. If not then I've been up against a different set of guys to you. <snip> -- Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) Remove ALL_STRESS before replying No person's opinions can be said to be more correct than another's, because each is the sole judge of his or her own experience.