just played richard burns rally, tough game.

I finally played RBR, and it is easily the most difficult racing game I have ever played. I have not crashed my car more in a racing game since way back when I first played GPL. And yet it is not really frustrating , but loads of fun in spite of all of my off track excursions. I played it for 3 hours straight the first time, and did not even notice the time. Awesome game. I think that it will be a long time til I master this racer, very steep learning curve compared to any other sim I have played. I thought it would be no problem, since I have been playing sims for years, including GPL,Nascar 2003, Colin mcrae rally 2004, GTR demo, among other sims. However, this game has me driving with great caution, like a novice driver, and yet is still fun. I can only occasionally manage to execute a decent power slide, which I could easily do with other rally sims. Anyways, if you have not already played this sim, it is worth the money.

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 05:55:59 -0700, "meee" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (13 lines)

>I finally played RBR, and it is easily the most difficult racing game I have >ever played. I have not crashed my car more in a racing game since way back >when I first played GPL. And yet it is not really frustrating , but loads of >fun in spite of all of my off track excursions. I played it for 3 hours >straight the first time, and did not even notice the time. Awesome game. I >think that it will be a long time til I master this racer, very steep >learning curve compared to any other sim I have played. I thought it would >be no problem, since I have been playing sims for years, including >GPL,Nascar 2003, Colin mcrae rally 2004, GTR demo, among other sims. >However, this game has me driving with great caution, like a novice driver, >and yet is still fun. I can only occasionally manage to execute a decent >power slide, which I could easily do with other rally sims. Anyways, if you >have not already played this sim, it is worth the money.

It looks like loads of fun. But if memory serves me correctly, it has no cockpit view. That alone would keep me from buying it. I ran the demo, and was impressed with the graphics. But I just can't bring myself to drive from the roof view.

TW wrote: <snip> > It looks like loads of fun. But if memory serves me correctly, it has > no cockpit view. That alone would keep me from buying it. I ran the > demo, and was impressed with the graphics. But I just can't bring > myself to drive from the roof view. It has a cockpit view. Brian

RBR is incredible. I'm surprised it doesn't get more discussion here, it's imho by far the best sim that's come out since N2003. It's incredible that Warthog went from Rally Champ Xtreme to making a game with a tire model that's Papy-like in quality and detail.

It DOES have cockpit view btw. TW wrote:

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> On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 05:55:59 -0700, "meee" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >>I finally played RBR, and it is easily the most difficult racing game I have >>ever played. I have not crashed my car more in a racing game since way back >>when I first played GPL. And yet it is not really frustrating , but loads of >>fun in spite of all of my off track excursions. I played it for 3 hours >>straight the first time, and did not even notice the time. Awesome game. I >>think that it will be a long time til I master this racer, very steep >>learning curve compared to any other sim I have played. I thought it would >>be no problem, since I have been playing sims for years, including >>GPL,Nascar 2003, Colin mcrae rally 2004, GTR demo, among other sims. >>However, this game has me driving with great caution, like a novice driver, >>and yet is still fun. I can only occasionally manage to execute a decent >>power slide, which I could easily do with other rally sims. Anyways, if you >>have not already played this sim, it is worth the money. > > > It looks like loads of fun. But if memory serves me correctly, it has > no cockpit view. That alone would keep me from buying it. I ran the > demo, and was impressed with the graphics. But I just can't bring > myself to drive from the roof view.

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 00:04:11 GMT, Brian Lecorchick wrote:

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> TW wrote: ><snip> >> It looks like loads of fun. But if memory serves me correctly, it has >> no cockpit view. That alone would keep me from buying it. I ran the >> demo, and was impressed with the graphics. But I just can't bring >> myself to drive from the roof view. > > It has a cockpit view. > > Brian

you should also check out http://www.rbr-online.net/ which allows "life like" rallies against human opponents over the net. It was featured in ASS the other month, I believe. Cheers, uwe -- GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > RBR is incredible. I'm surprised it doesn't get more discussion here, > it's imho by far the best sim that's come out since N2003. It's > incredible that Warthog went from Rally Champ Xtreme to making a game > with a tire model that's Papy-like in quality and detail. Right then - some RBR discussion. There's actually a lot of RBR discussion on the web boards at BHM and RSC. Maybe it attracts mostly a younger generation who just weren't about in the days of newsgroups, and simply don't know/care that this group exists? Anyway - this is not what I wish to discuss. For me, RBR was the holy grail that I had been awaiting for 10 years. I'm a former club level rally driver, and had always preferred this genre to circuit racing. Rally Trophy was the first decent attempt at a SIM - and I mastered it religiously, but it was "not quite there" physics wise. A very dedicated group of people over at no-grip.net have developed a new physics model for Rally Trophy, but it simply doesn't compare with the ultra-realism of RBR. When I first loaded up RBR, I found that I was reasonably quick on the very loose surfaces that reflected my own experiences (snow/wet gravel), just by driving the car as I would in real life. That was such an ecstatic experience! However, the defining quality of RBR is one I have also seen with GPL and very few other Sims - the ability for individual techniques to be used according to driver preferences, as opposed to one fastest way to drive as dictated by the software. I have learnt much about real handling and how other people drive by studying replays, and having the luxury of changing my own style without risking real world "offs". Looking at say the top 20 replays of any one stage, you'll see 10-15 different styles - all within a few seconds of each other. Its more than just setting the car up for understeer or oversteer - the individual driver's style is apparent in all aspects of the driving. The learning curve has been amazing! Like many RBR drivers, I thought I was pretty good until I started trying to drive hard ;-). Even with my previous experience, driving a 300 HP WRC class car is a whole new learning curve. I have had several breakthroughs over the months, where my brain suddenly finds a faster way to drive and my times come down. Rather than a gradual improvement of a few 10th every day, I find that I plateau for a week or two, maybe with a little frustration, then suddenly find another 5-10 seconds on a stage. Mastering the tightening sweepers on narrow loose stages such as Perka Menoko was a real thrill. The replays showed the car in a 4 wheel drift most of the time, with the front wheels constantly moving from positive to opposite lock to fine tune the car, with the actual cornering angle dictated by the increasing rear slip angle as the curve tightens up. When I next saw a rally on TV - I see exactly the same thing with the pros, and have an even greater appreciation of "being there". Another great skill to master on RBR is one I have used often in real life - constant scando flicks through esses. This doesn't just require thinking and acting a corner ahead, but actually setting the line and speed two curves ahead - especially on snow or wet tracks. Having said all this, I'm afraid that I'm pessimistic about the future of RBR, for a number of reasons. Firstly, the software is very "locked down" and almost impossible to mod in terms of additional tracks or different types of car. The best we have seen are converting some stages to/from tarmac and gravel, and a few new car skins. Whilst the car skins look great - what I really care about is the physics. New physics models are claimed - but these appear to be nothing more than changes to the default handing of the car as per what can be done with the car tuning menus. Secondly, the development company was sold shortly after the release of RBR, and many of the developers left. There is little chance of a new version of RBR in the same way as the Colin McRae series. My third concern is purely personal speculation. I suspect that commercially, the title has not had anywhere near the success of CMR, or other mainstream games/Sims. This was to be expected, given the niche market appeal. However, future development is driven by hard commercial realities, not a vocal minority of fans. I think the lack of online play was mistake. I regularly use RBR-NET, however, it can't replicate the quality of a designed-in online experience. I understand perfectly that rallying is all about racing the clock, not other people directly, but ghost racing can achieve this in a time compressed way. Frankly, if there was an excellent built-in module that allowed spectating and standard 2 minute intervals between cars, I would happily wait my turn whilst watching the competitors online. The final concern is in respect of the sensitive area of Richard Burn's health and ability to further participate in the future development of RBR. Richard put a lot of personal effort into this SIM - pushing hard for the realism angle. As a former world champion who was at the peak of his career when the game was produced, he had the power to dictate his will. Also, even if the game never made a profit, the loss could be underwritten by his team and sponsors as a way of further promoting him within the sport. I can only hope that Richard will make a full recovery and be further involved promoting sim rallying in future. The good news is that he successfully underwent an operation this week to remove excess tumour growth from his brain. Good luck Richard! Regards, Tim

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 23:25:38 GMT, TW <[email hidden]> wrote: > it has >no cockpit view the dash is poor but it has cockpit view, anyway is a great sim

Eppy, thanks for taking the time to write such a well thought out and informative post, especially coming from someone who has actual rallying experience. It was also good to hear something positive concerning Richard Burns health. I hope that someone, or group of smart someones, will discover a way to crack the code for this game, and make it possible to create new tracks at the very least. This game deserves GPL-like longevity. "eppy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:wJpce.21797$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (13 lines)

> > > jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > RBR is incredible. I'm surprised it doesn't get more discussion here, > > it's imho by far the best sim that's come out since N2003. It's > > incredible that Warthog went from Rally Champ Xtreme to making a game > > with a tire model that's Papy-like in quality and detail. > > Right then - some RBR discussion. > > There's actually a lot of RBR discussion on the web boards at BHM and RSC. > Maybe it attracts mostly a younger generation who just weren't about in

the > days of newsgroups, and simply don't know/care that this group exists? > Anyway - this is not what I wish to discuss. > > For me, RBR was the holy grail that I had been awaiting for 10 years. I'ma > former club level rally driver, and had always preferred this genre to > circuit racing. Rally Trophy was the first decent attempt at a SIM - and I > mastered it religiously, but it was "not quite there" physics wise. A very > dedicated group of people over at no-grip.net have developed a new physics > model for Rally Trophy, but it simply doesn't compare with theultra-realism > of RBR. > > When I first loaded up RBR, I found that I was reasonably quick on thevery > loose surfaces that reflected my own experiences (snow/wet gravel), justby

Quoted text (8 lines)

> driving the car as I would in real life. That was such an ecstatic > experience! > > However, the defining quality of RBR is one I have also seen with GPL and > very few other Sims - the ability for individual techniques to be used > according to driver preferences, as opposed to one fastest way to drive as > dictated by the software. I have learnt much about real handling and how > other people drive by studying replays, and having the luxury of changing

my

Quoted text (7 lines)

> own style without risking real world "offs". Looking at say the top 20 > replays of any one stage, you'll see 10-15 different styles - all within a > few seconds of each other. Its more than just setting the car up for > understeer or oversteer - the individual driver's style is apparent in all > aspects of the driving. > > The learning curve has been amazing! Like many RBR drivers, I thought I

was > pretty good until I started trying to drive hard ;-). Even with myprevious > experience, driving a 300 HP WRC class car is a whole new learning curve.I

Quoted text (8 lines)

> have had several breakthroughs over the months, where my brain suddenly > finds a faster way to drive and my times come down. Rather than a gradual > improvement of a few 10th every day, I find that I plateau for a week or > two, maybe with a little frustration, then suddenly find another 5-10 > seconds on a stage. > > Mastering the tightening sweepers on narrow loose stages such as Perka > Menoko was a real thrill. The replays showed the car in a 4 wheel drift

most > of the time, with the front wheels constantly moving from positive to > opposite lock to fine tune the car, with the actual cornering angledictated > by the increasing rear slip angle as the curve tightens up. When I nextsaw > a rally on TV - I see exactly the same thing with the pros, and have an > even greater appreciation of "being there". > > Another great skill to master on RBR is one I have used often in reallife - > constant scando flicks through esses. This doesn't just require thinkingand

Quoted text (7 lines)

> acting a corner ahead, but actually setting the line and speed two curves > ahead - especially on snow or wet tracks. > > Having said all this, I'm afraid that I'm pessimistic about the future of > RBR, for a number of reasons. > > Firstly, the software is very "locked down" and almost impossible to mod

in > terms of additional tracks or different types of car. The best we haveseen > are converting some stages to/from tarmac and gravel, and a few new car > skins. Whilst the car skins look great - what I really care about is the > physics. New physics models are claimed - but these appear to be nothing > more than changes to the default handing of the car as per what can bedone > with the car tuning menus. > > Secondly, the development company was sold shortly after the release ofRBR, > and many of the developers left. There is little chance of a new versionof > RBR in the same way as the Colin McRae series. > > My third concern is purely personal speculation. I suspect that > commercially, the title has not had anywhere near the success of CMR, or > other mainstream games/Sims. This was to be expected, given the nichemarket > appeal. However, future development is driven by hard commercialrealities, > not a vocal minority of fans. > > I think the lack of online play was mistake. I regularly use RBR-NET, > however, it can't replicate the quality of a designed-in onlineexperience.

Quoted text (8 lines)

> I understand perfectly that rallying is all about racing the clock, not > other people directly, but ghost racing can achieve this in a time > compressed way. Frankly, if there was an excellent built-in module that > allowed spectating and standard 2 minute intervals between cars, I would > happily wait my turn whilst watching the competitors online. > > The final concern is in respect of the sensitive area of Richard Burn's > health and ability to further participate in the future development of

RBR. > Richard put a lot of personal effort into this SIM - pushing hard for the > realism angle. As a former world champion who was at the peak of hiscareer > when the game was produced, he had the power to dictate his will. Also,even > if the game never made a profit, the loss could be underwritten by histeam > and sponsors as a way of further promoting him within the sport. I canonly

Quoted text (9 lines)

> hope that Richard will make a full recovery and be further involved > promoting sim rallying in future. The good news is that he successfully > underwent an operation this week to remove excess tumour growth from his > brain. Good luck Richard! > > Regards, > Tim > >

Thanks for your comments. After reading the message about lackof discussion here, I thought I'd put some effort into writing a decent article, to see if I could generate a bit of discussion. Unfortunatly, yours was the only reply. However, this may be because my message was "buried" in the reply of a thread, rather than starting a new thread. Anyway, yeah - new tracks would be fantastic. Imagine Pikes Peak - emulating Ari Vatenen! I might have to wait 2-3 years, but I'm sure something else will come along. Cheers, Tim "meee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (154 lines)

> Eppy, thanks for taking the time to write such a well thought out and > informative post, especially coming from someone who has actual rallying > experience. > It was also good to hear something positive concerning Richard Burns > health. > I hope that someone, or group of smart someones, will discover a way to > crack the code for this game, and make it possible to create new tracks at > the very least. > This game deserves GPL-like longevity. > "eppy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:wJpce.21797$[email hidden]... >> >> >> jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:[email hidden]... >> > RBR is incredible. I'm surprised it doesn't get more discussion here, >> > it's imho by far the best sim that's come out since N2003. It's >> > incredible that Warthog went from Rally Champ Xtreme to making a game >> > with a tire model that's Papy-like in quality and detail. >> >> Right then - some RBR discussion. >> >> There's actually a lot of RBR discussion on the web boards at BHM and >> RSC. >> Maybe it attracts mostly a younger generation who just weren't about in > the >> days of newsgroups, and simply don't know/care that this group exists? >> Anyway - this is not what I wish to discuss. >> >> For me, RBR was the holy grail that I had been awaiting for 10 years. I'm > a >> former club level rally driver, and had always preferred this genre to >> circuit racing. Rally Trophy was the first decent attempt at a SIM - and >> I >> mastered it religiously, but it was "not quite there" physics wise. A >> very >> dedicated group of people over at no-grip.net have developed a new >> physics >> model for Rally Trophy, but it simply doesn't compare with the > ultra-realism >> of RBR. >> >> When I first loaded up RBR, I found that I was reasonably quick on the > very >> loose surfaces that reflected my own experiences (snow/wet gravel), just > by >> driving the car as I would in real life. That was such an ecstatic >> experience! >> >> However, the defining quality of RBR is one I have also seen with GPL and >> very few other Sims - the ability for individual techniques to be used >> according to driver preferences, as opposed to one fastest way to drive >> as >> dictated by the software. I have learnt much about real handling and how >> other people drive by studying replays, and having the luxury of changing > my >> own style without risking real world "offs". Looking at say the top 20 >> replays of any one stage, you'll see 10-15 different styles - all within >> a >> few seconds of each other. Its more than just setting the car up for >> understeer or oversteer - the individual driver's style is apparent in >> all >> aspects of the driving. >> >> The learning curve has been amazing! Like many RBR drivers, I thought I > was >> pretty good until I started trying to drive hard ;-). Even with my > previous >> experience, driving a 300 HP WRC class car is a whole new learning curve. > I >> have had several breakthroughs over the months, where my brain suddenly >> finds a faster way to drive and my times come down. Rather than a gradual >> improvement of a few 10th every day, I find that I plateau for a week or >> two, maybe with a little frustration, then suddenly find another 5-10 >> seconds on a stage. >> >> Mastering the tightening sweepers on narrow loose stages such as Perka >> Menoko was a real thrill. The replays showed the car in a 4 wheel drift > most >> of the time, with the front wheels constantly moving from positive to >> opposite lock to fine tune the car, with the actual cornering angle > dictated >> by the increasing rear slip angle as the curve tightens up. When I next > saw >> a rally on TV - I see exactly the same thing with the pros, and have an >> even greater appreciation of "being there". >> >> Another great skill to master on RBR is one I have used often in real > life - >> constant scando flicks through esses. This doesn't just require thinking > and >> acting a corner ahead, but actually setting the line and speed two curves >> ahead - especially on snow or wet tracks. >> >> Having said all this, I'm afraid that I'm pessimistic about the future of >> RBR, for a number of reasons. >> >> Firstly, the software is very "locked down" and almost impossible to mod > in >> terms of additional tracks or different types of car. The best we have > seen >> are converting some stages to/from tarmac and gravel, and a few new car >> skins. Whilst the car skins look great - what I really care about is the >> physics. New physics models are claimed - but these appear to be nothing >> more than changes to the default handing of the car as per what can be > done >> with the car tuning menus. >> >> Secondly, the development company was sold shortly after the release of > RBR, >> and many of the developers left. There is little chance of a new version > of >> RBR in the same way as the Colin McRae series. >> >> My third concern is purely personal speculation. I suspect that >> commercially, the title has not had anywhere near the success of CMR, or >> other mainstream games/Sims. This was to be expected, given the niche > market >> appeal. However, future development is driven by hard commercial > realities, >> not a vocal minority of fans. >> >> I think the lack of online play was mistake. I regularly use RBR-NET, >> however, it can't replicate the quality of a designed-in online > experience. >> I understand perfectly that rallying is all about racing the clock, not >> other people directly, but ghost racing can achieve this in a time >> compressed way. Frankly, if there was an excellent built-in module that >> allowed spectating and standard 2 minute intervals between cars, I would >> happily wait my turn whilst watching the competitors online. >> >> The final concern is in respect of the sensitive area of Richard Burn's >> health and ability to further participate in the future development of > RBR. >> Richard put a lot of personal effort into this SIM - pushing hard for the >> realism angle. As a former world champion who was at the peak of his > career >> when the game was produced, he had the power to dictate his will. Also, > even >> if the game never made a profit, the loss could be underwritten by his > team >> and sponsors as a way of further promoting him within the sport. I can > only >> hope that Richard will make a full recovery and be further involved >> promoting sim rallying in future. The good news is that he successfully >> underwent an operation this week to remove excess tumour growth from his >> brain. Good luck Richard! >> >> Regards, >> Tim >> >> > >

"eppy" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:Orbde.23094$[email hidden]:

Quoted text (16 lines)

> Thanks for your comments. > > After reading the message about lackof discussion here, I thought I'd > put some effort into writing a decent article, to see if I could > generate a bit of discussion. Unfortunatly, yours was the only reply. > However, this may be because my message was "buried" in the reply of a > thread, rather than starting a new thread. > > Anyway, yeah - new tracks would be fantastic. Imagine Pikes Peak - > emulating Ari Vatenen! > > I might have to wait 2-3 years, but I'm sure something else will come > along. > > Cheers, > Tim

SCGT => F12k1 => F1c. Pikes Peak has been around for at least a year now. Probably alot longer than that... dh

On Sun, 01 May 2005 21:00:30 GMT, eppy wrote:

Quoted text (15 lines)

> Thanks for your comments. > > After reading the message about lackof discussion here, I thought I'd put > some effort into writing a decent article, to see if I could generate a bit > of discussion. Unfortunatly, yours was the only reply. However, this may be > because my message was "buried" in the reply of a thread, rather than > starting a new thread. > > Anyway, yeah - new tracks would be fantastic. Imagine Pikes Peak - emulating > Ari Vatenen! > > I might have to wait 2-3 years, but I'm sure something else will come along. > > Cheers, > Tim

I enjoyed your article too and am a happy RBR user (have been since its release, in fact). I'm so happy with it that I don't feel an urge to discuss its shortcomings which are next to non-existent, so that might explain in a way why RAS is relatively quiet concerning RBR. I don't drive it too often, but when I do it never fails to put a big grin on my face ;-) cheers, uwe -- GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61