F1CS2000 - F12K FPS comparison (no difference!)

I've seen both EA/ISI's claims and many testamonials here in RAS on how the framerate is much improved in F1CS2000 as compared to the original F12K. Is this not exhibited in the demo too, or am I missing something? I compared the demo of F1CS2000 back-to-back using FRAPS with my full version of F12K. I used both the original demo exe and the noCD version that you can find at bhmotorsports. With the same graphics settings, track, # racers etc, I get the *same* framerate, even slightly *lower* as compared to F12K. This is based at looking at the FPS at the start of a race (both realtime and in replays) where it is most critical. It also appeared the same after a lap (though then it isn't as easy to do an apples-apples). These framerates are the familiar ~15 at the start, with mid 20's to high 30's when racing. With mirrors off. As before, the mirrors have a huge effect. BTW, I'm using a c566 (not OC'd, but that's another sad tale) with a V3-2000 @166. I did note that while they still tie the mirrors to the big-screen TV's (why?), that the latter are disabled from external views. So, there is a FPS gain when in replay mode with mirrors on if watching from external. But this is pretty secondary. Also, there has been a lot of discussion, both with this an earlier ISI titles, about the magic of setting the system rating value (config.ini) to enhance framerate. ISI explained what it did in the past. My investigating suggests it hasn't changed. Basically, it presets many of the graphics options. If you set it high, it sets high levels of detail, viewing distance, textures, resolution, etc. Perhaps it is a good place to start since ISI probably has a good idea of what tradeoffs are optimal. For instance, mirrors have a framerate huge impact, but resolution often does not. I do not see how setting this to a higher value could possible lead to higher framerate. Unless the user had already tweaked some values which are more computationally intensive but with little eye-candy payoff (high detail on AI cars? Max'd gof or LOD??). Also, there is NO change to any existing player! It only impacts new players created *after* the system rating was changed. If you think you saw an improvement in an existing player, I think it's due to the power of suggestion. I did see one *.plr entry that was changed that might have an impact other than on graphics. There's a "net data rate" value that changes from 8 to 16 as the system rating is changed from 3 to 5. Does this refer in some way to the computation update rate? Overall, I find this version far too similar to F12K. Yes, $40 isn't much. But to me it looks like a patch that hasn't patched enough. YMMV, of course. I don't mean this to second guess anyone's purchase. Just MHO and choice.

Hmmmm.....Either your FRAPS is off or something is amiss with your system because I noticed a HUGE difference in frame rates between the old and new. -Ciao! "David Masten" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:911fq5$1c8c$[email hidden]... > I've seen both EA/ISI's claims and many testamonials here in RAS on howthe > framerate is much improved in F1CS2000 as compared to the original F12K.Is > this not exhibited in the demo too, or am I missing something? > > I compared the demo of F1CS2000 back-to-back using FRAPS with my fullversion > of F12K. I used both the original demo exe and the noCD version that you > can find at bhmotorsports. With the same graphics settings, track, #racers > etc, I get the *same* framerate, even slightly *lower* as compared toF12K. > This is based at looking at the FPS at the start of a race (both realtimeand > in replays) where it is most critical. It also appeared the same after alap > (though then it isn't as easy to do an apples-apples). These frameratesare > the familiar ~15 at the start, with mid 20's to high 30's when racing.With > mirrors off. As before, the mirrors have a huge effect. BTW, I'm using a > c566 (not OC'd, but that's another sad tale) with a V3-2000 @166. > > I did note that while they still tie the mirrors to the big-screen TV's > (why?), that the latter are disabled from external views. So, there is aFPS > gain when in replay mode with mirrors on if watching from external. Butthis > is pretty secondary. > > Also, there has been a lot of discussion, both with this an earlier ISI > titles, about the magic of setting the system rating value (config.ini) to > enhance framerate. ISI explained what it did in the past. Myinvestigating > suggests it hasn't changed. Basically, it presets many of the graphics > options. If you set it high, it sets high levels of detail, viewingdistance, > textures, resolution, etc. Perhaps it is a good place to start since ISI > probably has a good idea of what tradeoffs are optimal. For instance,mirrors > have a framerate huge impact, but resolution often does not. I do not seehow > setting this to a higher value could possible lead to higher framerate. > Unless the user had already tweaked some values which are morecomputationally > intensive but with little eye-candy payoff (high detail on AI cars? Max'dgof > or LOD??). > > Also, there is NO change to any existing player! It only impacts newplayers > created *after* the system rating was changed. If you think you saw an > improvement in an existing player, I think it's due to the power of > suggestion. > > I did see one *.plr entry that was changed that might have an impact other > than on graphics. There's a "net data rate" value that changes from 8 to16 > as the system rating is changed from 3 to 5. Does this refer in some > way to the computation update rate? > > Overall, I find this version far too similar to F12K. Yes, $40 isn'tmuch. > But to me it looks like a patch that hasn't patched enough. YMMV, ofcourse. > I don't mean this to second guess anyone's purchase. Just MHO and choice.

In article <zuXY5.3182$[email hidden]>, "Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Hmmmm.....Either your FRAPS is off or something is amiss with your system >because I noticed a HUGE difference in frame rates between the old and new. Are you sure all your graphics/controls/etc settings are the same? I checked and double checked. I doubt that FRAPS is off. I even compared FRAPS to the in-game FPS counter of F/A-18 and they matched within 1 FPS. I can't discount that something in my system is rate limiting that isn't in others which prevents it from showing improvement shown in others. But time and again over the years when others have subjectively noted large framerate increases in many a game, I've often found that objective data didn't bear it out.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] wrote: >On Mon, 11 Dec 2000 03:00:27 GMT, [email hidden] (David Masten) wrote: > >Set the system rating in the .PLR file to a lower value. >Try 2 or 3. > >See the FPS improvement? Yes I do there. But people have been writing to set it *higher*. It seems clear that as the system rating is set higher, graphic detail improves, and framerate would be expected to suffer. I couldn't understand why posters seemed to claim the opposite. BTW, 3 is where mirrors start defaulting to OFF. Here's what I got at the start of Indy with the 8 cars allowed by the un-patched demo, starting from the back, using all the defaults: Sys Rating FPS 5 12 (1024x768), 13 @ 800x600 4 15 3 22 2 23 (640x480), same at 800x600 1 33 (640x480), 31 at 800x600 To my eyes, 3 and above yield acceptable modern graphics. For my gameplay, 3 is acceptable, *except* the mirrors are OFF.

OK what are your FRAPS numbers with F1-2000 and F1-2000CS? -- [email hidden] "Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:zuXY5.3182$[email hidden]... > Hmmmm.....Either your FRAPS is off or something is amiss with your system > because I noticed a HUGE difference in frame rates between the old and new. > > -Ciao! > > > "David Masten" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:911fq5$1c8c$[email hidden]... > > I've seen both EA/ISI's claims and many testamonials here in RAS on how > the > > framerate is much improved in F1CS2000 as compared to the original F12K. > Is > > this not exhibited in the demo too, or am I missing something? > > > > I compared the demo of F1CS2000 back-to-back using FRAPS with my full > version > > of F12K. I used both the original demo exe and the noCD version that you > > can find at bhmotorsports. With the same graphics settings, track, # > racers > > etc, I get the *same* framerate, even slightly *lower* as compared to > F12K. > > This is based at looking at the FPS at the start of a race (both realtime > and > > in replays) where it is most critical. It also appeared the same after a > lap > > (though then it isn't as easy to do an apples-apples). These framerates > are > > the familiar ~15 at the start, with mid 20's to high 30's when racing. > With > > mirrors off. As before, the mirrors have a huge effect. BTW, I'm using a > > c566 (not OC'd, but that's another sad tale) with a V3-2000 @166. > > > > I did note that while they still tie the mirrors to the big-screen TV's > > (why?), that the latter are disabled from external views. So, there is a > FPS > > gain when in replay mode with mirrors on if watching from external. But > this > > is pretty secondary. > > > > Also, there has been a lot of discussion, both with this an earlier ISI > > titles, about the magic of setting the system rating value (config.ini) to > > enhance framerate. ISI explained what it did in the past. My > investigating > > suggests it hasn't changed. Basically, it presets many of the graphics > > options. If you set it high, it sets high levels of detail, viewing > distance, > > textures, resolution, etc. Perhaps it is a good place to start since ISI > > probably has a good idea of what tradeoffs are optimal. For instance, > mirrors > > have a framerate huge impact, but resolution often does not. I do not see > how > > setting this to a higher value could possible lead to higher framerate. > > Unless the user had already tweaked some values which are more > computationally > > intensive but with little eye-candy payoff (high detail on AI cars? Max'd > gof > > or LOD??). > > > > Also, there is NO change to any existing player! It only impacts new > players > > created *after* the system rating was changed. If you think you saw an > > improvement in an existing player, I think it's due to the power of > > suggestion. > > > > I did see one *.plr entry that was changed that might have an impact other > > than on graphics. There's a "net data rate" value that changes from 8 to > 16 > > as the system rating is changed from 3 to 5. Does this refer in some > > way to the computation update rate? > > > > Overall, I find this version far too similar to F12K. Yes, $40 isn't > much. > > But to me it looks like a patch that hasn't patched enough. YMMV, of > course. > > I don't mean this to second guess anyone's purchase. Just MHO and choice. > >

I'm so glad someone else has raised this, as I can't see any difference in frame rates at all! FRAPS gives the same (more or less) fps in F12K and F1CS. Iain "David Masten" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:912gva$7be$[email hidden]... > In article <zuXY5.3182$[email hidden]>, "Regular Racer"<[email hidden]> wrote: > >Hmmmm.....Either your FRAPS is off or something is amiss with your system > >because I noticed a HUGE difference in frame rates between the old andnew. > > Are you sure all your graphics/controls/etc settings are the same? Ichecked > and double checked. I doubt that FRAPS is off. I even compared FRAPS tothe > in-game FPS counter of F/A-18 and they matched within 1 FPS. I can'tdiscount > that something in my system is rate limiting that isn't in others which > prevents it from showing improvement shown in others. But time and againover > the years when others have subjectively noted large framerate increases in > many a game, I've often found that objective data didn't bear it out.

I have the full version of F1CS2000 and have done the same copmaison. I see almost no change in the frame rate between the two. I've tweeked both sims for maximum FPS but there is little difference. I use FRAPS to measure FPS and my system is a Athlon-800 with a Prophet-II Geforce2 GTS. This machine is more that enough to handle all of the sims I throw at it but these EA F1 sims just kill it! My most recent 3DMark-2000 score is 6531 for anyone who might use that benchmark for a reference. I'm glad I only paid $19.00 for the new version, just seems like a moderate patch to me. Sal "David Masten" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:911fq5$1c8c$[email hidden]... > I've seen both EA/ISI's claims and many testamonials here in RAS on howthe > framerate is much improved in F1CS2000 as compared to the original F12K.Is > this not exhibited in the demo too, or am I missing something? >

The same is here. No FPS gain in F1CS2000. With F12000 optimized tracks I have better FPS in F12000. I tried every possible tweak/setting to improve FPS in F1CS2000 but I cannot make it beat F12000. Sounds like well managed hype by EA marketing machine??? Darko Iain Mackenzie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:boaZ5.5817$[email hidden]...

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> I'm so glad someone else has raised this, as I can't see any difference in > frame rates at all! > FRAPS gives the same (more or less) fps in F12K and F1CS. > Iain > > "David Masten" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:912gva$7be$[email hidden]... > > In article <zuXY5.3182$[email hidden]>, "Regular Racer" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Hmmmm.....Either your FRAPS is off or something is amiss with your

system > > >because I noticed a HUGE difference in frame rates between the old and > new. > > > > Are you sure all your graphics/controls/etc settings are the same? I > checked > > and double checked. I doubt that FRAPS is off. I even compared FRAPSto > the > > in-game FPS counter of F/A-18 and they matched within 1 FPS. I can't > discount > > that something in my system is rate limiting that isn't in others which > > prevents it from showing improvement shown in others. But time andagain > over > > the years when others have subjectively noted large framerate increasesin > > many a game, I've often found that objective data didn't bear it out. > >

Well, I don't use FRAPS but I did know instantaneously that F12CS runs a heckuva lot smoother than F12K. In fact, F12K ran so bad, I removed it. Since FRAPS is not supported by EA Sports....how good is it? "Darko Juvan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%KeZ5.787503$[email hidden]...

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> The same is here. No FPS gain in F1CS2000. With F12000 optimized tracks I > have better FPS in F12000. I tried every possible tweak/setting to improve > FPS in F1CS2000 but I cannot make it beat F12000. Sounds like well managed > hype by EA marketing machine??? > > Darko > > > Iain Mackenzie <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:boaZ5.5817$[email hidden]... > > I'm so glad someone else has raised this, as I can't see any difference

in

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> > frame rates at all! > > FRAPS gives the same (more or less) fps in F12K and F1CS. > > Iain > > > > "David Masten" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:912gva$7be$[email hidden]... > > > In article <zuXY5.3182$[email hidden]>, "Regular Racer" > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > >Hmmmm.....Either your FRAPS is off or something is amiss with your > system > > > >because I noticed a HUGE difference in frame rates between the old

and

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> > new. > > > > > > Are you sure all your graphics/controls/etc settings are the same? I > > checked > > > and double checked. I doubt that FRAPS is off. I even compared FRAPS > to > > the > > > in-game FPS counter of F/A-18 and they matched within 1 FPS. I can't > > discount > > > that something in my system is rate limiting that isn't in others

which > > > prevents it from showing improvement shown in others. But time and > again > > over > > > the years when others have subjectively noted large framerateincreases > in > > > many a game, I've often found that objective data didn't bear it out. > > > > > >

I really don't need FRAPS to tell that it's still very slow at the start of a race and also see quite clearly, that the frame rate changes extensively at different parts of the track. It all too familiar to the original F12000. Sal "Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1afZ5.4251$[email hidden]...

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> Well, I don't use FRAPS but I did know instantaneously that F12CS runs a > heckuva lot smoother than F12K. In fact, F12K ran so bad, I removed it. > Since FRAPS is not supported by EA Sports....how good is it? > > > "Darko Juvan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:%KeZ5.787503$[email hidden]... > > The same is here. No FPS gain in F1CS2000. With F12000 optimized tracks

I > > have better FPS in F12000. I tried every possible tweak/setting toimprove > > FPS in F1CS2000 but I cannot make it beat F12000. Sounds like wellmanaged

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> > hype by EA marketing machine??? > > > > Darko > > > > > > Iain Mackenzie <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:boaZ5.5817$[email hidden]... > > > I'm so glad someone else has raised this, as I can't see any

difference

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> in > > > frame rates at all! > > > FRAPS gives the same (more or less) fps in F12K and F1CS. > > > Iain > > > > > > "David Masten" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:912gva$7be$[email hidden]... > > > > In article <zuXY5.3182$[email hidden]>, "Regular Racer" > > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >Hmmmm.....Either your FRAPS is off or something is amiss with your > > system > > > > >because I noticed a HUGE difference in frame rates between the old > and > > > new. > > > > > > > > Are you sure all your graphics/controls/etc settings are the same?

I > > > checked > > > > and double checked. I doubt that FRAPS is off. I even comparedFRAPS > > to > > > the > > > > in-game FPS counter of F/A-18 and they matched within 1 FPS. Ican't

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> > > discount > > > > that something in my system is rate limiting that isn't in others > which > > > > prevents it from showing improvement shown in others. But time and > > again > > > over > > > > the years when others have subjectively noted large framerate > increases > > in > > > > many a game, I've often found that objective data didn't bear it

out. > > > > > > > > > > > >

I've since tested a bunch of combinations, comparing back-to-back. As before, including F12K v1.09, the demo F1CS2000, the noCD patched version. Including old and new Indy, old Nurburgring in both F12K and F1CS. Both 8 and 22 cars. Wiith and without mirrors. F1CS2000 yields the same framerate, plus zero, minus one at the start. About the same, maybe minus two at other points I took note of. I can't equivocally state whether the graphics look the same or not. I can say settings were the same. Controllability felt about the same. Again, perhaps a difference is manifested on other machines, maybe it takes advantages of certain vidcard features. But I'd say to those considering purchasing it based on reports of much improved framerate: buyer beware. Other things noted while testing: AI does seem less prone to run into me, which makes it easier to survive the start slowdown. They seem to evade more readily. AI doesn't have the strange slowdown in Indy on the short straight before entering the oval's short chute. But they still wiggle around like mad (moreso, probably due to the AI setting which less penalizes off-line moves). They also brake too soon for many turns (100% AI). I really don't see this as anything but a relatively modest patch to F12K. Again, unless the full version is very different than the demo. >"Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> Since FRAPS is not supported by EA Sports....how good is it? I don't understand how one relates to the other. However, as I metioned before, I did compare FRAPS to the in-game FPS counter in Jane's F/A-18 and they agreed. This at least lends some credibility to it.

"Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1afZ5.4251$[email hidden]... > Well, I don't use FRAPS but I did know instantaneously that F12CS runs a > heckuva lot smoother than F12K. In fact, F12K ran so bad, I removed it. > Since FRAPS is not supported by EA Sports....how good is it? Please describe "supported". -- [email hidden]

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] wrote: >99.999999% of F1-2000 owners drove F1-2000 with the >tracks out of the box. Didn't know they sold that many :-)

Not copyrighted or developed by. "Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ZPjZ5.30046$[email hidden]... > > "Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:1afZ5.4251$[email hidden]... > > Well, I don't use FRAPS but I did know instantaneously that F12CS runs a > > heckuva lot smoother than F12K. In fact, F12K ran so bad, I removedit.

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> > Since FRAPS is not supported by EA Sports....how good is it? > > Please describe "supported". > > -- > > [email hidden] > > > > >