New F2 & F3 class names

Hi guys, This mainly concerns the F3 & F2 communitys... If we are to embrace this new class of racing, both in F2 & F3, then we need to cut down on the confusion with naming them etc.. The GMSS have been experimenting with these two classes over the last week, from day one of the GEM release to the general public, and we have designated the class of car using the F1 chassis with the 2.0l(f3) engine, the "FG" class.. We designated the F1 chassis with the 2.50l(f2) engine the "FD" class. I know one name is as good as another, but if we at least all stick to the same names for these two new classes, then it won't take us long to know what we are all talking about, both here and in VROC. Designating them names like "f1-f3" or "f1-f2-2.5" etc etc is just going to confuse the issue, so for ease of use and understanding for everyone, lets just leave them what they were designated when they were discovered, and we will soon all know them as the "FG" and the "FD" classes... Good luck guys with the new possibilities GPL now provides the F3 & F2 communities with, and thanks to Paul Thurston for making all this possible, as without Paul's utility, none of this would have happened, so the F2 & F3 communities owe Paul a HUGE thanks.. We can now enjoy F2 & F3 as it was meant to be enjoyed. Cheers, Ron Ayton Australia

Ron, Are these designations completely arbitrary, is there some (acronym) logic to them? Personally, I think HF2 and HF3 ("H" for hybrid), might have been less confusing, but I'll run with FG and FD if everyone else does. Jan. =--- Ron Ayton wrote... > Hi guys, > > <snip>

Hi Jan, The main reason we decided to do it that way, was because using a H for hybrid, can also be a combination of any engine that is used in the hybrid's possible combination ranges.. You can also add a 2.0ls, 2.0lr or 2.50l engine to the F1 Hybrid Marques as well, so a definite letter designation is a better way to identify each class.. Cheers, Ron Jan Verschueren <[email hidden]> wrote in article <[email hidden]>... > Ron, > > Are these designations completely arbitrary, is there some (acronym)logic > to them? > > Personally, I think HF2 and HF3 ("H" for hybrid), might have beenless

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> confusing, but I'll run with FG and FD if everyone else does. > > Jan. > =--- > Ron Ayton wrote... > > Hi guys, > > > > <snip> > > >

I would think that F12 (F1 with F2 engine), or F31 (F3 with F1 engine) is a lot more clear.... Remco

What an odd naming convention, Ron. What gave birth to the 'D' and 'G' suffixes? -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Ron Ayton <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:01c066ea$9ca344e0$824336cb@ronayton... > Hi guys, > > This mainly concerns the F3 & F2 communitys... > > If we are to embrace this new class of racing, both in F2 & F3, then > we need to cut down on the confusion with naming them etc.. > The GMSS have been experimenting with these two classes over the last > week, from day one of the GEM release to the general public, and we > have designated the class of car using the F1 chassis with the 2.0l(f3) > engine, the "FG" class.. > We designated the F1 chassis with the 2.50l(f2) engine the "FD" class. > > I know one name is as good as another, but if we at least all stick to > the same names for these two new classes, then it won't take us long > to know what we are all talking about, both here and in VROC. > Designating them names like "f1-f3" or "f1-f2-2.5" etc etc is just > going to confuse the issue, so for ease of use and understanding for > everyone, lets just leave them what they were designated when they > were discovered, and we will soon all know them as the "FG" and the > "FD" classes... Good luck guys with the new possibilities GPL now > provides the F3 & F2 communities with, and thanks to Paul Thurston for > making all this possible, as without Paul's utility, none of this > would have happened, so the F2 & F3 communities owe Paul a HUGE > thanks.. > We can now enjoy F2 & F3 as it was meant to be enjoyed. > > Cheers, > Ron Ayton > Australia >

> What an odd naming convention, Ron. > What gave birth to the 'D' and 'G' suffixes? > --Very odd indeed, makes no sense what so ever. There must be an easier way to relate to the so called "new classes". Edward

This might be very clear and my eyes may be filled with last night's wine, so excuse my stupidity :) but what does the D stand for ? and the G ? Robert PS: Your Indy setup works great...many thanks again. "Ron Ayton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:01c066ea$9ca344e0$824336cb@ronayton...

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> Hi guys, > > This mainly concerns the F3 & F2 communitys... > > If we are to embrace this new class of racing, both in F2 & F3, then > we need to cut down on the confusion with naming them etc.. > The GMSS have been experimenting with these two classes over the last > week, from day one of the GEM release to the general public, and we > have designated the class of car using the F1 chassis with the 2.0l(f3) > engine, the "FG" class.. > We designated the F1 chassis with the 2.50l(f2) engine the "FD" class. > > I know one name is as good as another, but if we at least all stick to > the same names for these two new classes, then it won't take us long > to know what we are all talking about, both here and in VROC. > Designating them names like "f1-f3" or "f1-f2-2.5" etc etc is just > going to confuse the issue, so for ease of use and understanding for > everyone, lets just leave them what they were designated when they > were discovered, and we will soon all know them as the "FG" and the > "FD" classes... Good luck guys with the new possibilities GPL now > provides the F3 & F2 communities with, and thanks to Paul Thurston for > making all this possible, as without Paul's utility, none of this > would have happened, so the F2 & F3 communities owe Paul a HUGE > thanks.. > We can now enjoy F2 & F3 as it was meant to be enjoyed. > > Cheers, > Ron Ayton > Australia >

Whatever you call 'em, it's a good idea that I'd love to try. BUT; whenever I patch a 2.0 or 2.5 race engine into my F1 Lotus, GPL won't go beyond the intro screen. The green button does nothing (sort of like a DFV after too many speedshifts). Repatch with the defaults again and it's fine. So far, the F2's and F3's will take the F1 engines, but the F1's seem allergic to a horsepower diet. Question; has anyone else had this problem? Thanks, Steve B. "Ron Ayton" <[email hidden]> wrote...

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> Hi guys, > > This mainly concerns the F3 & F2 communitys... > > If we are to embrace this new class of racing, both in F2 & F3, then > we need to cut down on the confusion with naming them etc.. > The GMSS have been experimenting with these two classes over the last > week, from day one of the GEM release to the general public, and we > have designated the class of car using the F1 chassis with the 2.0l(f3) > engine, the "FG" class.. > We designated the F1 chassis with the 2.50l(f2) engine the "FD" class. > > I know one name is as good as another, but if we at least all stick to > the same names for these two new classes, then it won't take us long > to know what we are all talking about, both here and in VROC. > Designating them names like "f1-f3" or "f1-f2-2.5" etc etc is just > going to confuse the issue, so for ease of use and understanding for > everyone, lets just leave them what they were designated when they > were discovered, and we will soon all know them as the "FG" and the > "FD" classes... Good luck guys with the new possibilities GPL now > provides the F3 & F2 communities with, and thanks to Paul Thurston for > making all this possible, as without Paul's utility, none of this > would have happened, so the F2 & F3 communities owe Paul a HUGE > thanks.. > We can now enjoy F2 & F3 as it was meant to be enjoyed. > > Cheers, > Ron Ayton > Australia >

Get the 119 version of GEM, and don't have any wierd patches installed beyond carsound and the papy ones. 119 is at the vroc-f2 files area. rms [email hidden]

I want the FG & FD designations. Why ? 1) One of the oldest GPL league members made them up out of thin air! haha I think that's a great reason right there, this will become part of the GPL mystique and a trivia question. I think its 'Good Form' to honor their designations, and any 'number' designation lacks all personality or interest. 2) These two letter designations are simple and easy to search for on gplrank (no don't upload times yet, but I have no doubt they will be incorporated into gplrank soon), are unique in that these letter combinations don't appear in names, and fit with the two letter F1 & F2 designations. rms [email hidden]

Thanks Roger, I'll give that a try! Steve B. "Roger Squires" <[email hidden]> wrote...

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> Get the 119 version of GEM, and don't have any wierd patches installed > beyond carsound and the papy ones. 119 is at the vroc-f2 files area. > > rms > [email hidden] > > >

Hi Bruce, Here is the story of the "FG" and the "FD" classes Bruce. :) The GMSS is a racing league for GPL, and has branches in F1, F2 & F3, and also has branches in Nascar racing too. (the OFL) It is also the very first on-line racing league using GPL, apart from the team Papy put together for the initial test race season before GPL was released.. The GMSS group and it's Founder, Larry Linthicum, decided to try and find something positive in the EngineChanger utility, where most everyone else was predicting doom and gloom for GPL on-line.. We as a group were not happy to lie down and play dead and join the whingers and whiners, so we started tested the different configurations of chassis/engine combos and found that the F1 chassis coupled up with the F3 & F2 engines produced a car that actually handled and performed like a small low powered open wheel car should, so we started doing extensive testing on these two classes, before we went public on it. Larry Linthicum, the GMSS's Founder, who is even older than you are Bruce <G>, decided that the F1 chassis with the F3 (2.0lr) engine was the way to go in the future, regarding F3 racing within his own branch of the GMSS (The Founders) and Brad Morgan, the administrator and Founder of the GMSS F3 division agreed with him. The names for the two new classes, are not so much a definition of what they are, but are a name the guys who discovered these classes and implemented/introduced them to the GPL on-line society, decided to tag them as. They are simple to remember, and are really the only two "modified" classes, using the 2.0lr and 2.50 engines that will provide better racing, apart from pure F1 hybrids with different F1 engines.. (call them what you like)... <G> I respect the GMSS's decision as the creators of these classes to call these classes what they did... Cheers, Ron Bruce Kennewell <[email hidden]> wrote in article <[email hidden]>...

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> What an odd naming convention, Ron. > What gave birth to the 'D' and 'G' suffixes? > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. > --------------------------- >

Thanks Roger... Anyone that knows Larry Linthicum, knows he is, and always has been, an integral part of GPL on-line and is committed to keeping GPL on-line a going proposition for ALL drivers, just not the F1 groups. He doesn't get out in the open, telling everyone what he achieves, but he was one of the original testers and helpers with SpyBoy (it went on to become WinVROC), he helped test the patches for GPL that Randy Cassidy provided, and has tried to help defuse the stupid school yard bickering about the EngineChanger patch.. I respect his decision to call the classes that he implemented and tested, before he made them public knowledge, what he called them.. Is it so damn hard to remember a "FG" is a F1 chassis with a F3 engine and the "FD" is a F1 chassis with a F2 engine... ? Talk about damn petty. !! Cheers, Ron Roger Squires <[email hidden]> wrote in article <RBO_5.9502$[email hidden]>... > I want the FG & FD designations. Why ? > > 1) One of the oldest GPL league members made them up out of thin air! haha > I think that's a great reason right there, this will become part ofthe GPL > mystique and a trivia question. I think its 'Good Form' to honortheir

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> designations, and any 'number' designation lacks all personality or > interest. > > 2) These two letter designations are simple and easy to search for on > gplrank (no don't upload times yet, but I have no doubt they will be > incorporated into gplrank soon), are unique in that these letter > combinations don't appear in names, and fit with the two letter F1 &

F2

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> designations. > > rms > [email hidden] > > > >

Alison Hine suggested the following in a post last Thursday: "We could also do it if we use F2, F3, or the rental car engine (the "2.0 liter street engine" in GEM). I suggest these suffixes: MOD - F1 with any swapped F1 engine M2 - F1 chassis with F2 engine M3 - F1 chassis with F3 engine MS - F1 chassis with street engine M21 - F2 chassis with any F1 engine M23 - F2 chassis with F3 engine etc..." Easier to remember IMHO. Ken Ron Ayton wrote:

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> Hi guys, > > This mainly concerns the F3 & F2 communitys... > > If we are to embrace this new class of racing, both in F2 & F3, then > we need to cut down on the confusion with naming them etc.. > The GMSS have been experimenting with these two classes over the last > week, from day one of the GEM release to the general public, and we > have designated the class of car using the F1 chassis with the 2.0l(f3) > engine, the "FG" class.. > We designated the F1 chassis with the 2.50l(f2) engine the "FD" class. > > I know one name is as good as another, but if we at least all stick to > the same names for these two new classes, then it won't take us long > to know what we are all talking about, both here and in VROC. > Designating them names like "f1-f3" or "f1-f2-2.5" etc etc is just > going to confuse the issue, so for ease of use and understanding for > everyone, lets just leave them what they were designated when they > were discovered, and we will soon all know them as the "FG" and the > "FD" classes... Good luck guys with the new possibilities GPL now > provides the F3 & F2 communities with, and thanks to Paul Thurston for > making all this possible, as without Paul's utility, none of this > would have happened, so the F2 & F3 communities owe Paul a HUGE > thanks.. > We can now enjoy F2 & F3 as it was meant to be enjoyed. > > Cheers, > Ron Ayton > Australia

-- Ken MacKay Halifax, Canada GPL F1 Handicap +64.63 GPL F3 handicap +367.41 "Just when I think I've heard the stupidest thing ever, you keep talking." Hank Hill

Hi Ken, Alison suggested those names before she knew that the FG and FD class's had already been named. Like i said, there is really only two extra classes that will provide good racing, they are the F1 with a F3 engine "FG" class and the F1 with a F2 engine "FD" class... Both of those names have been accepted by the F3 & F2 groups, and Paul Thurston, the guy that wrote the EngineChanger utility is going to implement the "FG" and "FD" names into his next version, to alleviate any confusion with names.. (and "no" i didn't name them, but i respect the wishes of the guys that did discover these two classes of cars and what they called them).. I realy can't see what is so hard about remembering 2 names for the only two classes that will be actually be used in on-line competition. The only other class that could prove interesting is the F1 with different F1 engines in different Marques.. "Mod" is a good name for them.. Cheers, Ron Ken MacKay <[email hidden]> wrote in article <[email hidden]>... > Alison Hine suggested the following in a post last Thursday: > > "We could also do it if we use F2, F3, or the rental car engine (the"2.0

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> liter street engine" in GEM). I suggest these suffixes: > > MOD - F1 with any swapped F1 engine > M2 - F1 chassis with F2 engine > M3 - F1 chassis with F3 engine > MS - F1 chassis with street engine > M21 - F2 chassis with any F1 engine > M23 - F2 chassis with F3 engine > > etc..." > > Easier to remember IMHO. > Ken

"Ron Ayton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:01c06939$e99b5f20$023e36cb@ronayton... > Like i said, there is really only two extra classes that will provide > good racing, they are the F1 with a F3 engine "FG" class and the F1 > with a F2 engine "FD" class... Wouldn't there be good racing within F3 with the street engine in the lighter cars and the race in the CORBHA chassises? What would you call that, FM (Mixed)?

Hi Art, A few of us tried that the other day at Watkins Glen, but even as F3 drivers, we had to admit that was just too slow.. :) There was no skill needed to keep those cars on the road and it just turned into a very slow procession... The street engines top out at 115mph at Watkins Glen, and that is if you get a good run out of the corners.. <G> We thought we may be able to handicap the faster runners and the Repco, by using that combo, but they were lapped at about half race distance in a short race... Cheers, Ron Art McEwen <[email hidden]> wrote in article <91m142$c1o$[email hidden]>... > > > Wouldn't there be good racing within F3 with the street engine in the > lighter cars and the race in the CORBHA chassises? What would youcall > that, FM (Mixed)? > > >

"Ron Ayton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:01c0693f$a0efcc60$023e36cb@ronayton... > Hi Art, > > A few of us tried that the other day at Watkins Glen, but even as F3 > drivers, we had to admit that was just too slow.. I figured some of you guys would try. Of course that just means the next version of the engine manager should bolt some race heads on the street engine then.

This is true, Ron. I wasn't aware of the FG and FD names at the time I suggested my class names. If we're going to use the "F" prefix, how about calling the F1 cars with different engines "FL" for "Formula Libre"? This would tie in with practice that was common in the 50's and 60's: that of having races where people could run anything they had. In some of these races, formula cars of various sizes and vintage lined up against all sorts of sports cars, big bore and small. Running GPL's F1 cars with different F1 engines really is in the same spirit, don't you think? BTW, consider this for a moment. GPL has seven different chassis, three different tire "sizes" (the GP, F2 and F3 chassis each have different tire friction coefficients), and ten different engines. The Engine Manager allows us to make any combination of these. By my count, this gives us 210 possible combinations! That's a lot of variety! Ron's right that some of the combinations are probably not very interesting; I doubt if the street engine (was this the engine destined for GPL's stillborn "rental car"?) will be much fun unless someone creates a go-kart track. But what about the F2 engine in the F1 cars? Doesn't this have the same kind of appeal as the F3 engine in the F1 cars, relatively low power but with more grip? I think we should find a name for this class too. And has anyone tried an F3 or F2 car with an F1 engine? I imagine that would be rather hairy at first, but it could be very interesting. Kind of like what Juan Fangio and Stirling Moss were driving in the 50's, don't you think? Lots of horsepower but not much grip. Perhaps this is a little like Hasbro's Spirit of Speed should have been. Also, with the lower lateral and longitudinal accelerations available due to the smaller tires, closer racing at high latencies might be possible, since warping increases with acceleration as well as velocity. Another interesting combination might be an F2 engine in the lighter F3 cars. This might be somewhat like a 1.5 liter F1 car: skinny little tires with more power than the tires can handle. Alison On Mon, 18 Dec 2000 21:16:09 GMT, "Ron Ayton" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Hi Ken, > >Alison suggested those names before she knew that the FG and FD class's >had already been named. >Like i said, there is really only two extra classes that will provide >good racing, they are the F1 with a F3 engine "FG" class and the F1 >with a F2 engine "FD" class... >Both of those names have been accepted by the F3 & F2 groups, and Paul >Thurston, the guy that wrote the EngineChanger utility is going to >implement the "FG" and "FD" names into his next version, to alleviate >any confusion with names.. >(and "no" i didn't name them, but i respect the wishes of the guys that >did discover these two classes of cars and what they called them).. >I realy can't see what is so hard about remembering 2 names for the >only two classes that will be actually be used in on-line competition. >The only other class that could prove interesting is the F1 with >different F1 engines in different Marques.. "Mod" is a good name for >them.. > >Cheers, >Ron > >Ken MacKay <[email hidden]> wrote in article ><[email hidden]>... >> Alison Hine suggested the following in a post last Thursday: >> >> "We could also do it if we use F2, F3, or the rental car engine (the >"2.0 >> liter street engine" in GEM). I suggest these suffixes: >> >> MOD - F1 with any swapped F1 engine >> M2 - F1 chassis with F2 engine >> M3 - F1 chassis with F3 engine >> MS - F1 chassis with street engine >> M21 - F2 chassis with any F1 engine >> M23 - F2 chassis with F3 engine >> >> etc..." >> >> Easier to remember IMHO. >> Ken

Alison From: [email hidden] Reply-To: [email hidden] Remove the spam blocker NOSPAM to email me. http://eaglewoman.maximumspeed.com

Alison Hine <[email hidden]> wrote in article > This is true, Ron. I wasn't aware of the FG and FD names at the timeI > suggested my class names. Good to hear from you Alison, been a while.. We have missed you in the Founders and the GMSS, but hopefully that Cobra you and Nate have been playing with lately is keeping you both honest.. > > But what about the F2 engine in the F1 cars? Doesn't this have thesame > kind of appeal as the F3 engine in the F1 cars, relatively low powerbut > with more grip? I think we should find a name for this class too. We did Alison, it is called the "FD" class.. :) They are a lot of fun and the guys in the VROC-f2 club have really taken it to heart as a great addition to GPL's variety.. The FD class (f1 with a f3 engine) and the FG class (f1 with a f3 engine) have proven very popular with most of the longest running F2 & F3 leagues, and even the GMSS has decided to go with the FG & FD classes in the future, instead of running the xt & at trainers, as they give so many advantages over the xt & at that the vote we held in the GMSS was 100% in favour of running the FG & FD classes in all our future events. Not to mention the side benefits of having the seperate engine sounds like the F1 community has enjoyed for so long.. Then of course, there is always the fact that we (f2 & f3) communitys can now run a GPL Championship season with the ai, simply by putting the engine of your choice into a F1 chassis.. > > And has anyone tried an F3 or F2 car with an F1 engine? I imaginethat > would be rather hairy at first, but it could be very interesting. Kind > of like what Juan Fangio and Stirling Moss were driving in the 50's, > don't you think? Lots of horsepower but not much grip. Perhaps thisis > a little like Hasbro's Spirit of Speed should have been. > > Also, with the lower lateral and longitudinal accelerations available > due to the smaller tires, closer racing at high latencies might be > possible, since warping increases with acceleration as well asvelocity. > > Another interesting combination might be an F2 engine in the lighterF3 > cars. This might be somewhat like a 1.5 liter F1 car: skinny little > tires with more power than the tires can handle. > > Alison All we need is someone to make up a "wet look" patch, and using those last variations you suggested, we would have the closest to wet weather racing that GPL could provide us with.. Would prove an interesting formula, for sure. <G> Take care Ali, and don't go winning too many races in your Cobra, it might lure you away from sim racing for good, and that would be a hard hole to have to try and fill.. Cheers, Ron

>the engine destined >for GPL's stillborn "rental car"? I guess Alison would know more about this than me, but a long time ago (before GPL was released) I read that it would allow you to drive each track in a road car to test it out. If that's what you're talking about, do you know why that feature was never implemented? -- Cheers! Graeme Nash

"NOT net.com" <HiFi@potomac> wrote: > I'm in favor of having names which are immediately descriptive > of the class, just like F1, F2, and F3 are. Like F1, F1.2, F1.3, F2, F2.1, F2.3, F3, F3.1, F3.2, i.e. <chassis/tyre class>.<engine class> excluding the defaults? Never work, too simple. ;-) - George p.s. Anyone try F3.1? It is like driving in the pouring rain with exceptional visiblity, an exceptional challenge in car control.