OT: Cable vs. DSL

Happy holidays! I always come here for OT advice and I've never been disappointed. I currently have Comcast cable modem service and am satisfied with it. I do think it's getting slower at prime-time which is around 8-9pm (or maybe it's my imagination since I know the shared network will eventually bog me down!). Just got offered a free month of Verizon DSL so I'm going to try it when it's activated 1-11-01 (640k residential service). I need to pick one going forward and need some advice. Questions: 1. Which is better for online racing/gaming and why? 2. Anything I should know about either service before I commit to one going forward? Thanks in advance. -- Joe Marques

Joe, DSL is better. 1. You choose the speed you need. If you mainly browse, you don't need fast up, but you want fast d/l's. For games, you want fast up AND down. 2. You only have to pay for the speed you need. 3. The speed is constant. With cable, it slows down the more people are online (not the more people are watching TV). Not only does it slow down during prime time (when you want it most), but it slows down over time as more and more people sign up. 4. Unlike cable, where you generally only have one provider, you might have as many as 50 providers for DSL. Competition keeps them sharp, and will eventually reduce prices way below cable. --Steve Smith Joe Marques <Joe [email hidden]> wrote in message news:ZGc36.83602$[email hidden]... > Happy holidays! > > I always come here for OT advice and I've never been disappointed. I > currently have Comcast cable modem service and am satisfied with it. I do > think it's getting slower at prime-time which is around 8-9pm (or maybeit's > my imagination since I know the shared network will eventually bog me > down!). Just got offered a free month of Verizon DSL so I'm going to tryit > when it's activated 1-11-01 (640k residential service). I need to pickone

Quoted text (7 lines)

> going forward and need some advice. > > Questions: > > 1. Which is better for online racing/gaming and why? > > 2. Anything I should know about either service before I commit to one

going

Quoted text (10 lines)

> forward? > > Thanks in advance. > > -- > Joe Marques > > > >

(If it's available in your area,) SPRINT Broadband Wireless beats DSL and Cable hands down. www.sprintbroadband.com. -Cheers!!

On Sat, 30 Dec 2000 14:20:36 GMT, "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (8 lines)

>Joe, > >DSL is better. > >1. You choose the speed you need. If you mainly browse, you don't need fast >up, but you want fast d/l's. For games, you want fast up AND down. > >2. You only have to pay for the speed you need.

Depends on the ISPs. >3. The speed is constant. With cable, it slows down the more people are >online (not the more people are watching TV). Not only does it slow down >during prime time (when you want it most), but it slows down over time as >more and more people sign up. Depends on what the ISP does to maintain the high speeds. It hasn't been a problem in my area in a couple of years. In my area cable is definately much faster than ADSL. >4. Unlike cable, where you generally only have one provider, you might have >as many as 50 providers for DSL. Competition keeps them sharp, and will >eventually reduce prices way below cable. This is very dependant on the company you are dealing with. In my area cable service is solid. I wouldn't have been able to say that 2 years ago. But now it is solid except for the mail server (but who uses ISP email anyways?) I would definately take Cable over ADSL in my area. Of course the comparison between ADSL and cable is very dependant on the companies offering it.

As I say, with cable, you don't get much of a choice, certainly not in Upstate NY--RoadRunner is it. The speeds vary from abt. 170/170 to over 400 in each direction, depending on the time of day/month/year (Xmas is the worst, as was the month after the so-called election). In Brooklyn, I have a choice of 50 vendors, selling everything from abt. 150/300 to over 400 both ways. RoadRunner charges abt. $40/mo. and has been very good with service. However, I know guys who've had rr a lot longer than I have, and they say both line and customer service begin to deteriorate after a year. The fees in Brooklyn vary from abt. $30 to $60/mo., and if one vendor doesn't execute, it's easy to find another who will. The only reason NOT to get DSL is if it isn't available in yer area yet. Wireless is barely faster than a shotgun modem. --Steve ra300z <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (8 lines)

> On Sat, 30 Dec 2000 14:20:36 GMT, "Stephen Smith" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Joe, > > > >DSL is better. > > > >1. You choose the speed you need. If you mainly browse, you don't need

fast

Quoted text (17 lines)

> >up, but you want fast d/l's. For games, you want fast up AND down. > > > >2. You only have to pay for the speed you need. > > Depends on the ISPs. > > >3. The speed is constant. With cable, it slows down the more people are > >online (not the more people are watching TV). Not only does it slow down > >during prime time (when you want it most), but it slows down over time as > >more and more people sign up. > > Depends on what the ISP does to maintain the high speeds. It hasn't > been a problem in my area in a couple of years. > > In my area cable is definately much faster than ADSL. > > >4. Unlike cable, where you generally only have one provider, you might

have

Quoted text (12 lines)

> >as many as 50 providers for DSL. Competition keeps them sharp, and will > >eventually reduce prices way below cable. > > This is very dependant on the company you are dealing with. In my > area cable service is solid. I wouldn't have been able to say that 2 > years ago. But now it is solid except for the mail server (but who > uses ISP email anyways?) I would definately take Cable over ADSL in > my area. > > > Of course the comparison between ADSL and cable is very dependant on > the companies offering it.

Thanks for the link to Sprint Broadband, Reg! Another possibility is MSN Satellite: http://essentials.msn.com/access/satellite.asp It's supposedly available now at Radio Shack, but you have to buy a new PC from Radio Shack to get it. The next version is supposed to be installable on any PC. Alison On Sat, 30 Dec 2000 09:08:16 -0700, "Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote: >(If it's available in your area,) SPRINT Broadband Wireless beats DSL and >Cable hands down. www.sprintbroadband.com. > >-Cheers!! > Alison From: [email hidden] Reply-To: [email hidden] Remove the spam blocker NOSPAM to email me. http://eaglewoman.maximumspeed.com

"Alison Hine" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (24 lines)

> Thanks for the link to Sprint Broadband, Reg! > > Another possibility is MSN Satellite: > > http://essentials.msn.com/access/satellite.asp > > It's supposedly available now at Radio Shack, but you have to buy a new > PC from Radio Shack to get it. The next version is supposed to be > installable on any PC. > > Alison > > On Sat, 30 Dec 2000 09:08:16 -0700, "Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >(If it's available in your area,) SPRINT Broadband Wireless beats DSL and > >Cable hands down. www.sprintbroadband.com. > > > >-Cheers!! > > > > > Alison >

You might want to reseach these because I have read that they have good bandwidth, but the latency is high. This makes for bad online gaming, especially racing and flight sims. Dash

In article <W1w36.77276$[email hidden]>, "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (13 lines)

>As I say, with cable, you don't get much of a choice, certainly not in >Upstate NY--RoadRunner is it. The speeds vary from abt. 170/170 to over 400 >in each direction, depending on the time of day/month/year (Xmas is the >worst, as was the month after the so-called election). > >In Brooklyn, I have a choice of 50 vendors, selling everything from abt. >150/300 to over 400 both ways. >RoadRunner charges abt. $40/mo. and has been very good with service. >However, I know guys who've had rr a lot longer than I have, and they say >both line and customer service begin to deteriorate after a year. The fees >in Brooklyn vary from abt. $30 to $60/mo., and if one vendor doesn't >execute, it's easy to find another who will. The only reason NOT to get DSL >is if it isn't available in yer area yet.

There's a strange thing going on here. I'm in a MAJOR metro area(Detroit), and I haven't found ANY providers for my neighborhood. Oh sure, there are companies that SAY they provide coverage in the city, but that don't have anything in the 6 or 7 zip codes that I've checked... Damn liars... Eldred - I hate the holiday season.... -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.80...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

If you have been happy with your cable service, DSL will probably not be an improvement. If you have a crappy cable ISP, then you might be happier with DSL. IMO, the shared-media argument against cable is a red herring. My cable runs at 1.5 mbps down and 325 mpbs up after three years. MediaOne/RoadRunner has generally managed to upgrade before performance has become an issue. This is not to say that there haven't been problems, though. For two extended periods of about 1-1 1/2 months each, over the last three years, I have had some routing problems that made my system useless as a server on GPL. The rest of the time, I have had one of the better servers in my leagues. In both cases though, it was not the local cable loop, but the routing through the Internet backbone that has been the issue. OTOH, Some of the folks in my leagues have never been able to reliably host using their cable connections, for unknown, and unresolved reasons. OTOOH, I have NEVER been able to race reliably on a DSL host in my leagues. The pings to the first hop from the host are often high. Competion in the DSL market is an illusion. There are only a handful of companies providing the actual DSL service. Many ISPs are offering DSL, but they are typically reselling service from one of the CLECs. They are universally useless in providing technical support, because they have no control over the network or equipment installtion. IMO, in several years, the DSL industry will consolidate, and only the Baby Bells, wireless companies and other large telecomms will be able to afford the infrastructure. While you have both installed, compare the pings and number of hops between you and some of the better known servers out there. Also try hosting some races and get people to send you traceroutes. That's the only way to really compare. Regards, Gordon "Joe Marques" <Joe [email hidden]> wrote in message news:ZGc36.83602$[email hidden]... > Happy holidays! > > I always come here for OT advice and I've never been disappointed. I > currently have Comcast cable modem service and am satisfied with it. I do > think it's getting slower at prime-time which is around 8-9pm (or maybeit's > my imagination since I know the shared network will eventually bog me > down!). Just got offered a free month of Verizon DSL so I'm going to tryit > when it's activated 1-11-01 (640k residential service). I need to pickone

Quoted text (7 lines)

> going forward and need some advice. > > Questions: > > 1. Which is better for online racing/gaming and why? > > 2. Anything I should know about either service before I commit to one

going

Quoted text (10 lines)

> forward? > > Thanks in advance. > > -- > Joe Marques > > > >

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > Alison > > > You might want to reseach these because I have read that they have good > bandwidth, but the latency is high. This makes for bad online gaming, > especially racing and flight sims. > > Dash

You mean there are 'other' kinds of computer games besides Racing and flying? :) dave henrie

Out west here in AT&T broadband land, they have capped out upload capability at 128k. Due, they say, to nefarious users violating the user agreement against maintaining servers. So they punish all users to control the few... dave henrie "Gordon McLachlan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:28K36.29727$[email hidden]... > If you have been happy with your cable service, DSL will probably not bean > improvement. If you have a crappy cable ISP, then you might be happierwith > DSL. > > IMO, the shared-media argument against cable is a red herring. My cableruns > at 1.5 mbps down and 325 mpbs up after three years. > > MediaOne/RoadRunner has generally managed to upgrade before performancehas > become an issue. This is not to say that there haven't been problems, > though. For two extended periods of about 1-1 1/2 months each, over thelast

Quoted text (8 lines)

> three years, I have had some routing problems that made my system useless > as a server on GPL. The rest of the time, I have had one of the better > servers in my leagues. > > In both cases though, it was not the local cable loop, but the routing > through the Internet backbone that has been the issue. > > OTOH, Some of the folks in my leagues have never been able to reliably

host > using their cable connections, for unknown, and unresolved reasons. > > OTOOH, I have NEVER been able to race reliably on a DSL host in myleagues. > The pings to the first hop from the host are often high. > > Competion in the DSL market is an illusion. There are only a handful of > companies providing the actual DSL service. Many ISPs are offering DSL,but > they are typically reselling service from one of the CLECs. They are > universally useless in providing technical support, because they have no > control over the network or equipment installtion. > > IMO, in several years, the DSL industry will consolidate, and only theBaby > Bells, wireless companies and other large telecomms will be able to afford > the infrastructure. > > While you have both installed, compare the pings and number of hopsbetween > you and some of the better known servers out there. Also try hosting some > races and get people to send you traceroutes. That's the only way toreally

Quoted text (13 lines)

> compare. > > Regards, > Gordon > > > > "Joe Marques" <Joe [email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ZGc36.83602$[email hidden]... > > Happy holidays! > > > > I always come here for OT advice and I've never been disappointed. I > > currently have Comcast cable modem service and am satisfied with it. I

do > > think it's getting slower at prime-time which is around 8-9pm (or maybe > it's > > my imagination since I know the shared network will eventually bog me > > down!). Just got offered a free month of Verizon DSL so I'm going totry

Quoted text (23 lines)

> it > > when it's activated 1-11-01 (640k residential service). I need to pick > one > > going forward and need some advice. > > > > Questions: > > > > 1. Which is better for online racing/gaming and why? > > > > 2. Anything I should know about either service before I commit to one > going > > forward? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > -- > > Joe Marques > > > > > > > > > >

Gordon, I guess I should try league hosting with my dsl again. Most people have had very good connects to my dsl host, with Gordon being an exception. I had terrible connects to his cable at the same time, and as Gordon said, it appeared that the problems both directions were caused by routing. We have at least 6 or 7 people in our leagues with cable connects that have never been able to host reliably. I had @home cable, which worked well for about 8 months. It then got progressively worse, until even the download speeds were below dial-up modem speeds routinely. It also had a lot of outages, and the mail server was down a lot. I got zero support from my Shaw ISP. After the first 6 months, I couldn't host GPL with my cable service. I've had dsl for over a year, and it has been absolutely rock solid. The speed is consistent and excellent, and there have been zero outages. The telcos still have a far different view of service reliability than the cable companies. In my area at least, I would take dsl over cable anytime. The ISP (Telus) has excellent support, and the service works very well. I would think that different areas have a different best solution. Kevin Caldwell Calgary, Canada "Gordon McLachlan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:28K36.29727$[email hidden]... > If you have been happy with your cable service, DSL will probably not bean > improvement. If you have a crappy cable ISP, then you might be happierwith > DSL. > > IMO, the shared-media argument against cable is a red herring. My cableruns > at 1.5 mbps down and 325 mpbs up after three years. > > MediaOne/RoadRunner has generally managed to upgrade before performancehas > become an issue. This is not to say that there haven't been problems, > though. For two extended periods of about 1-1 1/2 months each, over thelast

Quoted text (8 lines)

> three years, I have had some routing problems that made my system useless > as a server on GPL. The rest of the time, I have had one of the better > servers in my leagues. > > In both cases though, it was not the local cable loop, but the routing > through the Internet backbone that has been the issue. > > OTOH, Some of the folks in my leagues have never been able to reliably

host > using their cable connections, for unknown, and unresolved reasons. > > OTOOH, I have NEVER been able to race reliably on a DSL host in myleagues. > The pings to the first hop from the host are often high. > > Competion in the DSL market is an illusion. There are only a handful of > companies providing the actual DSL service. Many ISPs are offering DSL,but > they are typically reselling service from one of the CLECs. They are > universally useless in providing technical support, because they have no > control over the network or equipment installtion. > > IMO, in several years, the DSL industry will consolidate, and only theBaby > Bells, wireless companies and other large telecomms will be able to afford > the infrastructure. > > While you have both installed, compare the pings and number of hopsbetween > you and some of the better known servers out there. Also try hosting some > races and get people to send you traceroutes. That's the only way toreally > compare. > > Regards, > Gordon >

Good post - my experiences exactly. I've hit 400k/sec and don't usually go below 100k/sec on downloads with Rogers/Shaw@home cable. I can host 20-25 cars in N4 with very little warping. -Phasor "Gordon McLachlan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:28K36.29727$[email hidden]... > If you have been happy with your cable service, DSL will probably not bean > improvement. If you have a crappy cable ISP, then you might be happierwith > DSL. > > IMO, the shared-media argument against cable is a red herring. My cableruns > at 1.5 mbps down and 325 mpbs up after three years. > > MediaOne/RoadRunner has generally managed to upgrade before performancehas > become an issue. This is not to say that there haven't been problems, > though. For two extended periods of about 1-1 1/2 months each, over thelast

Quoted text (8 lines)

> three years, I have had some routing problems that made my system useless > as a server on GPL. The rest of the time, I have had one of the better > servers in my leagues. > > In both cases though, it was not the local cable loop, but the routing > through the Internet backbone that has been the issue. > > OTOH, Some of the folks in my leagues have never been able to reliably

host > using their cable connections, for unknown, and unresolved reasons. > > OTOOH, I have NEVER been able to race reliably on a DSL host in myleagues. > The pings to the first hop from the host are often high. > > Competion in the DSL market is an illusion. There are only a handful of > companies providing the actual DSL service. Many ISPs are offering DSL,but > they are typically reselling service from one of the CLECs. They are > universally useless in providing technical support, because they have no > control over the network or equipment installtion. > > IMO, in several years, the DSL industry will consolidate, and only theBaby > Bells, wireless companies and other large telecomms will be able to afford > the infrastructure. > > While you have both installed, compare the pings and number of hopsbetween > you and some of the better known servers out there. Also try hosting some > races and get people to send you traceroutes. That's the only way toreally

Quoted text (13 lines)

> compare. > > Regards, > Gordon > > > > "Joe Marques" <Joe [email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ZGc36.83602$[email hidden]... > > Happy holidays! > > > > I always come here for OT advice and I've never been disappointed. I > > currently have Comcast cable modem service and am satisfied with it. I

do > > think it's getting slower at prime-time which is around 8-9pm (or maybe > it's > > my imagination since I know the shared network will eventually bog me > > down!). Just got offered a free month of Verizon DSL so I'm going totry

Quoted text (23 lines)

> it > > when it's activated 1-11-01 (640k residential service). I need to pick > one > > going forward and need some advice. > > > > Questions: > > > > 1. Which is better for online racing/gaming and why? > > > > 2. Anything I should know about either service before I commit to one > going > > forward? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > -- > > Joe Marques > > > > > > > > > >

Erm, yes...*broadband* wireless, harrumph, harrumph. There seem to be two competing standards, one promulgated by Microsoft and not yet deployed (that I know of), and the other, from Echostar, that seems to be available @ Radio Shack (where I haven't bought anything since I discovered they make their AA cells a teensy-weensy bit undersized to save a penny per thousand). Both use small-ish 2-way sat dishes (about a meter across), cost abt. $60-$70 a month (special prezzie for you Early Adopters), and the Echostar can also receive sat TV (I think the MSFT plan is to do something with streaming video or movies on demand...like Time-Life's $120 million failure in Orlando a few years back). --Steve Stephen Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:W1w36.77276$[email hidden]... > As I say, with cable, you don't get much of a choice, certainly not in > Upstate NY--RoadRunner is it. The speeds vary from abt. 170/170 to over400

Quoted text (8 lines)

> in each direction, depending on the time of day/month/year (Xmas is the > worst, as was the month after the so-called election). > > In Brooklyn, I have a choice of 50 vendors, selling everything from abt. > 150/300 to over 400 both ways. > RoadRunner charges abt. $40/mo. and has been very good with service. > However, I know guys who've had rr a lot longer than I have, and they say > both line and customer service begin to deteriorate after a year. The

fees > in Brooklyn vary from abt. $30 to $60/mo., and if one vendor doesn't > execute, it's easy to find another who will. The only reason NOT to getDSL

Quoted text (24 lines)

> is if it isn't available in yer area yet. > > Wireless is barely faster than a shotgun modem. > > --Steve > > ra300z <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Sat, 30 Dec 2000 14:20:36 GMT, "Stephen Smith" > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >Joe, > > > > > >DSL is better. > > > > > >1. You choose the speed you need. If you mainly browse, you don't need > fast > > >up, but you want fast d/l's. For games, you want fast up AND down. > > > > > >2. You only have to pay for the speed you need. > > > > Depends on the ISPs. > > > > >3. The speed is constant. With cable, it slows down the more people

are > > >online (not the more people are watching TV). Not only does it slowdown > > >during prime time (when you want it most), but it slows down over timeas

Quoted text (10 lines)

> > >more and more people sign up. > > > > Depends on what the ISP does to maintain the high speeds. It hasn't > > been a problem in my area in a couple of years. > > > > In my area cable is definately much faster than ADSL. > > > > >4. Unlike cable, where you generally only have one provider, you might > have > > >as many as 50 providers for DSL. Competition keeps them sharp, and

will

Quoted text (13 lines)

> > >eventually reduce prices way below cable. > > > > This is very dependant on the company you are dealing with. In my > > area cable service is solid. I wouldn't have been able to say that 2 > > years ago. But now it is solid except for the mail server (but who > > uses ISP email anyways?) I would definately take Cable over ADSL in > > my area. > > > > > > Of course the comparison between ADSL and cable is very dependant on > > the companies offering it. > >

Alison knows of my past online gaming issues starting all the way back when I tried to get my dial up connection working right. I perfected that then moved on to cable (Adelphia in the Buffalo, NY USA area) That was a total nightmare from the get go and the last 6-8 weeks of using their service I had to resort to my dial up to race (not host). I looked into DSL and Verizon and Earthlink use what is called line interleaving. This is bad for online gaming so let the buyer beware. I also hear all the horror stories concerning DSL (in my area) so I will stick to my 56K modem. BTW AT &T dial up is very good IMO :o)) DC DELETE .com <HiFi@potomacnet> wrote in message news:00001131162415.OUI97.HiFi@potomacnet(DELETE).com...

Quoted text (19 lines)

> "Joe Marques" <Joe [email hidden]> wrote: > > > Just got offered a free month of Verizon DSL so I'm going to try it > > when it's activated 1-11-01 (640k residential service). > > That comes with "up to" 90k uploading, but I have never had more than > 70-some k/s with that service. > > Verizon quality varies greatly from area to area. In NYC it is terrible, > here around DC it is "ok". Recently I found very bad delays in getting > responses to actions from my pc, and after testing with my ISP's help > we discovered a severe routing problem of Verizon, major delays, lots > of lost packets, etc, all of which Verizon denied for a few days, until > finally the tech from my ISP found one tech person at Verizon who would > listen, and then he tracked it down to a bad card in a router at the > local office. While using Verizon as the DSL connector, I would urge > you to use another company as your actual ISP, so that you have their > help when it comes time to deal with Verizon tech issues. >

Nope. SprintBroadband only $34 US/month. (Includes ISP also) -Cheers!

Now *that's* more like it! Regular Racer <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bkW36.4635$[email hidden]... > Nope. SprintBroadband only $34 US/month. (Includes ISP also) > > -Cheers! > >

David, I *think* you can request yer provider turn off line interleaving. --Steve David Ciemny <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:u7T36.14016$[email hidden]... > Alison knows of my past online gaming issues starting all the way backwhen

Quoted text (7 lines)

> I tried to get my dial up connection working right. I perfected that then > moved on to cable (Adelphia in the Buffalo, NY USA area) That was a total > nightmare from the get go and the last 6-8 weeks of using their service I > had to resort to my dial up to race (not host). > > I looked into DSL and Verizon and Earthlink use what is called line > interleaving. This is bad for online gaming so let the buyer beware. I

also

Quoted text (29 lines)

> hear all the horror stories concerning DSL (in my area) so I will stick to > my 56K modem. > > BTW AT &T dial up is very good IMO :o)) > > DC > DELETE .com <HiFi@potomacnet> wrote in message > news:00001131162415.OUI97.HiFi@potomacnet(DELETE).com... > > "Joe Marques" <Joe [email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > Just got offered a free month of Verizon DSL so I'm going to try it > > > when it's activated 1-11-01 (640k residential service). > > > > That comes with "up to" 90k uploading, but I have never had more than > > 70-some k/s with that service. > > > > Verizon quality varies greatly from area to area. In NYC it is terrible, > > here around DC it is "ok". Recently I found very bad delays in getting > > responses to actions from my pc, and after testing with my ISP's help > > we discovered a severe routing problem of Verizon, major delays, lots > > of lost packets, etc, all of which Verizon denied for a few days, until > > finally the tech from my ISP found one tech person at Verizon who would > > listen, and then he tracked it down to a bad card in a router at the > > local office. While using Verizon as the DSL connector, I would urge > > you to use another company as your actual ISP, so that you have their > > help when it comes time to deal with Verizon tech issues. > > > >

Stephen Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:px446.113776$[email hidden]... > Now *that's* more like it! > > Regular Racer <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:bkW36.4635$[email hidden]... > > Nope. SprintBroadband only $34 US/month. (Includes ISP also) > > What's the catch? Have to buy $2k worth of equipment? Speed varies with system load? Not available everywhere? Still sounds a LOT cheaper than DSL...

DSL only costs me $39.95/mo Canadian, including the modem rental and two IP addresses. That's about $26.63 US. My connect speed is about 1.2M down, 350 up. Kevin Caldwell Calgary, Canada "Izzy..." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:HN646.2045$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (16 lines)

> > Stephen Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:px446.113776$[email hidden]... > > Now *that's* more like it! > > > > Regular Racer <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:bkW36.4635$[email hidden]... > > > Nope. SprintBroadband only $34 US/month. (Includes ISP also) > > > > > What's the catch? Have to buy $2k worth of equipment? > Speed varies with system load? Not available everywhere? > > Still sounds a LOT cheaper than DSL... > >

Equipment is about $100 US.

Actually, your distance from the CO determines your speed... I've personally heard enough horror stories about DSL to stick with cable (not that I have a choice right now anyway). They (RoadRunner) have been improving the latency times greatly over the last couple of month's and it's hardly a problem now. I have 1.5mb/sec down and 192k up. Reliability has been excellent, though it hasn't always been that way. Oh, and DSL has it's sharing problems too. Everyone uses the same internal network and everyone uses the providers same pipe to the internet. You don't have your _own_ guaranteed pipe to the internet with eithe rcable OR Dsl. JMHO. -Larry "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Uam36.87749$[email hidden]... > Joe, > > DSL is better. > > 1. You choose the speed you need. If you mainly browse, you don't needfast

Quoted text (10 lines)

> up, but you want fast d/l's. For games, you want fast up AND down. > > 2. You only have to pay for the speed you need. > > 3. The speed is constant. With cable, it slows down the more people are > online (not the more people are watching TV). Not only does it slow down > during prime time (when you want it most), but it slows down over time as > more and more people sign up. > > 4. Unlike cable, where you generally only have one provider, you might

have

Quoted text (11 lines)

> as many as 50 providers for DSL. Competition keeps them sharp, and will > eventually reduce prices way below cable. > > --Steve Smith > > Joe Marques <Joe [email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ZGc36.83602$[email hidden]... > > Happy holidays! > > > > I always come here for OT advice and I've never been disappointed. I > > currently have Comcast cable modem service and am satisfied with it. I

do > > think it's getting slower at prime-time which is around 8-9pm (or maybe > it's > > my imagination since I know the shared network will eventually bog me > > down!). Just got offered a free month of Verizon DSL so I'm going totry

Quoted text (23 lines)

> it > > when it's activated 1-11-01 (640k residential service). I need to pick > one > > going forward and need some advice. > > > > Questions: > > > > 1. Which is better for online racing/gaming and why? > > > > 2. Anything I should know about either service before I commit to one > going > > forward? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > -- > > Joe Marques > > > > > > > > > >

I'd _love_ to try this. I might if it ever becomes available in my area. -Larry "Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2Jn36.459$[email hidden]... > (If it's available in your area,) SPRINT Broadband Wireless beats DSL and > Cable hands down. www.sprintbroadband.com. > > -Cheers!! > >

If you are into online gaming, AVOID SATELLITE! The latency times are measured in seconds sometimes, not milliseconds. It's a longggg way up to that Satellite and back :) DirecPC, with it's dial-up uplink is impossible... -Larry "Alison Hine" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (28 lines)

> Thanks for the link to Sprint Broadband, Reg! > > Another possibility is MSN Satellite: > > http://essentials.msn.com/access/satellite.asp > > It's supposedly available now at Radio Shack, but you have to buy a new > PC from Radio Shack to get it. The next version is supposed to be > installable on any PC. > > Alison > > On Sat, 30 Dec 2000 09:08:16 -0700, "Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >(If it's available in your area,) SPRINT Broadband Wireless beats DSL and > >Cable hands down. www.sprintbroadband.com. > > > >-Cheers!! > > > > > Alison > > From: [email hidden] > Reply-To: [email hidden] > Remove the spam blocker NOSPAM to email me. > http://eaglewoman.maximumspeed.com

If you are into online ***, AVOID SATELLITE! The latency times are measured in seconds sometimes, not milliseconds. It's a longggg way up to that Satellite and back :) DirecPC, with it's dial-up uplink is impossible... -Larry

Quoted text (28 lines)

> Thanks for the link to Sprint Broadband, Reg! > Another possibility is MSN Satellite: > http://essentials.msn.com/access/satellite.asp > It's supposedly available now at Radio Shack, but you have to buy a new > PC from Radio Shack to get it. The next version is supposed to be > installable on any PC. > Alison > >(If it's available in your area,) SPRINT Broadband Wireless beats DSL and > >Cable hands down. www.sprintbroadband.com. > >-Cheers!! > Alison > Remove the spam blocker NOSPAM to email me. > http://eaglewoman.maximumspeed.com

Verizon in the DC area is very spotty in it's coverage. For example, in western Fairfax, one of the fastest growing IT area's in the country, if you are serviced by the Centreville switching office you may NEVER get DSL in your area. They have been fibbing time after time when asked about availability in this area. It's always "6 months away". Finally, one of the best ISP's in the area is Heller Information Services in Rockeville. Paul Heller is a class-act. -Larry "DELETE .com" <HiFi@potomacnet> wrote in message news:00001131162415.OUI97.HiFi@potomacnet(DELETE).com...

Quoted text (19 lines)

> "Joe Marques" <Joe [email hidden]> wrote: > > > Just got offered a free month of Verizon DSL so I'm going to try it > > when it's activated 1-11-01 (640k residential service). > > That comes with "up to" 90k uploading, but I have never had more than > 70-some k/s with that service. > > Verizon quality varies greatly from area to area. In NYC it is terrible, > here around DC it is "ok". Recently I found very bad delays in getting > responses to actions from my pc, and after testing with my ISP's help > we discovered a severe routing problem of Verizon, major delays, lots > of lost packets, etc, all of which Verizon denied for a few days, until > finally the tech from my ISP found one tech person at Verizon who would > listen, and then he tracked it down to a bad card in a router at the > local office. While using Verizon as the DSL connector, I would urge > you to use another company as your actual ISP, so that you have their > help when it comes time to deal with Verizon tech issues. >

Correct. Bandwidth is ok (except DirecPC - don't get me started...) but latencies are ridiculous. -Larry "Dash" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:IXH36.1465$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (19 lines)

> > "Alison Hine" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Thanks for the link to Sprint Broadband, Reg! > > > > Another possibility is MSN Satellite: > > > > http://essentials.msn.com/access/satellite.asp > > > > It's supposedly available now at Radio Shack, but you have to buy a new > > PC from Radio Shack to get it. The next version is supposed to be > > installable on any PC. > > > > Alison > > > > On Sat, 30 Dec 2000 09:08:16 -0700, "Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> > > wrote: > > > > >(If it's available in your area,) SPRINT Broadband Wireless beats DSL

and

Quoted text (15 lines)

> > >Cable hands down. www.sprintbroadband.com. > > > > > >-Cheers!! > > > > > > > > > Alison > > > You might want to reseach these because I have read that they have good > bandwidth, but the latency is high. This makes for bad online gaming, > especially racing and flight sims. > > Dash > >

Gordon, Nicely done post. -Larry "Gordon McLachlan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:28K36.29727$[email hidden]... > If you have been happy with your cable service, DSL will probably not bean > improvement. If you have a crappy cable ISP, then you might be happierwith > DSL. > > IMO, the shared-media argument against cable is a red herring. My cableruns > at 1.5 mbps down and 325 mpbs up after three years. > > MediaOne/RoadRunner has generally managed to upgrade before performancehas > become an issue. This is not to say that there haven't been problems, > though. For two extended periods of about 1-1 1/2 months each, over thelast

Quoted text (8 lines)

> three years, I have had some routing problems that made my system useless > as a server on GPL. The rest of the time, I have had one of the better > servers in my leagues. > > In both cases though, it was not the local cable loop, but the routing > through the Internet backbone that has been the issue. > > OTOH, Some of the folks in my leagues have never been able to reliably

host > using their cable connections, for unknown, and unresolved reasons. > > OTOOH, I have NEVER been able to race reliably on a DSL host in myleagues. > The pings to the first hop from the host are often high. > > Competion in the DSL market is an illusion. There are only a handful of > companies providing the actual DSL service. Many ISPs are offering DSL,but > they are typically reselling service from one of the CLECs. They are > universally useless in providing technical support, because they have no > control over the network or equipment installtion. > > IMO, in several years, the DSL industry will consolidate, and only theBaby > Bells, wireless companies and other large telecomms will be able to afford > the infrastructure. > > While you have both installed, compare the pings and number of hopsbetween > you and some of the better known servers out there. Also try hosting some > races and get people to send you traceroutes. That's the only way toreally

Quoted text (13 lines)

> compare. > > Regards, > Gordon > > > > "Joe Marques" <Joe [email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ZGc36.83602$[email hidden]... > > Happy holidays! > > > > I always come here for OT advice and I've never been disappointed. I > > currently have Comcast cable modem service and am satisfied with it. I

do > > think it's getting slower at prime-time which is around 8-9pm (or maybe > it's > > my imagination since I know the shared network will eventually bog me > > down!). Just got offered a free month of Verizon DSL so I'm going totry

Quoted text (23 lines)

> it > > when it's activated 1-11-01 (640k residential service). I need to pick > one > > going forward and need some advice. > > > > Questions: > > > > 1. Which is better for online racing/gaming and why? > > > > 2. Anything I should know about either service before I commit to one > going > > forward? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > -- > > Joe Marques > > > > > > > > > >

Unless you pay for a Soho or corporate line, they ALL do this. My cable is capped at 1.5mb/sec down, and 192k up. -Larry "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:zgL36.212226$[email hidden]... > Out west here in AT&T broadband land, they have capped out upload > capability at 128k. Due, they say, to nefarious users violating the user > agreement against maintaining servers. So they punish all users tocontrol

Quoted text (20 lines)

> the few... > dave henrie > "Gordon McLachlan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:28K36.29727$[email hidden]... > > If you have been happy with your cable service, DSL will probably not be > an > > improvement. If you have a crappy cable ISP, then you might be happier > with > > DSL. > > > > IMO, the shared-media argument against cable is a red herring. My cable > runs > > at 1.5 mbps down and 325 mpbs up after three years. > > > > MediaOne/RoadRunner has generally managed to upgrade before performance > has > > become an issue. This is not to say that there haven't been problems, > > though. For two extended periods of about 1-1 1/2 months each, over the > last > > three years, I have had some routing problems that made my system

useless

Quoted text (24 lines)

> > as a server on GPL. The rest of the time, I have had one of the better > > servers in my leagues. > > > > In both cases though, it was not the local cable loop, but the routing > > through the Internet backbone that has been the issue. > > > > OTOH, Some of the folks in my leagues have never been able to reliably > host > > using their cable connections, for unknown, and unresolved reasons. > > > > OTOOH, I have NEVER been able to race reliably on a DSL host in my > leagues. > > The pings to the first hop from the host are often high. > > > > Competion in the DSL market is an illusion. There are only a handful of > > companies providing the actual DSL service. Many ISPs are offering DSL, > but > > they are typically reselling service from one of the CLECs. They are > > universally useless in providing technical support, because they have no > > control over the network or equipment installtion. > > > > IMO, in several years, the DSL industry will consolidate, and only the > Baby > > Bells, wireless companies and other large telecomms will be able to

afford > > the infrastructure. > > > > While you have both installed, compare the pings and number of hops > between > > you and some of the better known servers out there. Also try hostingsome

Quoted text (15 lines)

> > races and get people to send you traceroutes. That's the only way to > really > > compare. > > > > Regards, > > Gordon > > > > > > > > "Joe Marques" <Joe [email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:ZGc36.83602$[email hidden]... > > > Happy holidays! > > > > > > I always come here for OT advice and I've never been disappointed. I > > > currently have Comcast cable modem service and am satisfied with it.

I > do > > > think it's getting slower at prime-time which is around 8-9pm (ormaybe > > it's > > > my imagination since I know the shared network will eventually bog me > > > down!). Just got offered a free month of Verizon DSL so I'm going to > try > > it > > > when it's activated 1-11-01 (640k residential service). I need topick

Quoted text (22 lines)

> > one > > > going forward and need some advice. > > > > > > Questions: > > > > > > 1. Which is better for online racing/gaming and why? > > > > > > 2. Anything I should know about either service before I commit to one > > going > > > forward? > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > > -- > > > Joe Marques > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:88b46.177341$[email hidden]... > Actually, your distance from the CO determines your speed... Correct. I have 320K up and down... > I've personally heard enough horror stories about DSL to stick with cable > (not that I have a choice right now anyway). Like? > Oh, and DSL has it's sharing problems too. Everyone uses the sameinternal > network and everyone uses the providers same pipe to the internet. But this is completely different than the cable model which has many users using the same network cable, which is much like thin wire BNC networking. > You don't have your _own_ guaranteed pipe to the internet with eithercable > OR Dsl. Well I have 320K guaranteed DSL. Exactly what proof do you have to support your statement? -- [email hidden]

"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:gub46.177712$[email hidden]... > Unless you pay for a Soho or corporate line, they ALL do this. > > My cable is capped at 1.5mb/sec down, and 192k up. They all do this huh??? My DSL is SDSL... I am doing 320K both ways... But wait some guy on the internet says it is really 192K up... -- [email hidden] > > -Larry

Greg Cisko wrote in message ... > >But this is completely different than the cable model which has many users >using the same network cable, which is much like thin wire BNC networking. > Obviously, every market is different but in my town each "channel" of data over cable is capable of over 40Mbps and there are many, many "channels" available in each cable for expansion. As well, from the neighbourhood head-end to the main station is fibre. In my town, those same wires are supporting digital cable TV and analog cable as well. Nope, no sharing issues here. I get 1-4 Mbps down and 0.75-1 Mbps up on cable. I don't have the numbers handy to back this up but the last time I saw them I was amazed at the capability of cable... IMO, when it comes to cable or xDSL the technology isn't an issue it's how your particular provider implements it. SB.

On Sat, 06 Jan 2001 06:48:40 GMT, HiFi@potomacnet(DELETE).com wrote:

Quoted text (9 lines)

>"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: >> Actually, your distance from the CO determines your speed... < > >Nope. I have the option of 3 different speeds from my home, >the one I get depends on how much I pay. I paid for the >cheapest and have 640/90. (In practice I have pegged almost >700k incoming at times, and 80k outgoing). The next step up >for $25 additional per month would be 1.6M incoming and 384k >outgoing. Same distance.

Nope. If you were farther away you wouldn't have the option of one or more of the higher speeds. Basic tenet of Digital Subscriber Line service---distance from the CO dictates max data rate. Regards, Brett C. Cammack brettDOTcammack@worldnetDOTattDOTnet (remove the DOTs from my return address to reply privately)

>But this is completely different than the cable model which has many users >using the same network cable, which is much like thin wire BNC networking. Kind of like Cox Cable screwing up out here in Vegas (and other places I'm sure) when you could click on Network Neighborhood and see all your neighbors, up and down the street, on the network. You could even browse their hard drives if you were so inclined and see what kind of nekkid girl pictures they had and what kind of pirated software they were running. All it took was for a person to have file sharing enabled and they were visible to everyone on their little section of the network. Dave Casey Casey_94 (NASCAR Racing 3 & 4) www.teamcasey.net www.lvkc.com www.buycoolcrap.com

That 's why cable sucks. You need to encrypt your data otherwise, any one on your ring can see what you have and vice-versa. -Cheers!

Not on all cable services Here on Mediaone Cable in Minneapolis I can not get to anyone else on here.. however my friend has Charter Cable and he can see everyone in his neighborhood "Regular Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Yzn66.133$[email hidden]... > That 's why cable sucks. You need to encrypt your data otherwise, any one > on your ring can see what you have and vice-versa. > > -Cheers! > >

>Not on all cable services > >Here on Mediaone Cable in Minneapolis I can not get to anyone else on here.. >however my friend has Charter Cable and he can see everyone in his >neighborhood This is true. Cox finally pulled their heads out of their backsides and fixed the problem here in Vegas. But it still can happen other places, as your friend has found out. What's funny is when you tell someone this, they look at you like, "this can't possibly be true." Not only is it true, but it is scary what can be accomplished if you are evil enough to do it. You can open other people's files, you can print them, you can delete files from their hard drives, you could place files on their hard drives and I guess if you were the Son of Satan you could format their hard drives. One way this was happening here, as I'm sure it was other places, is when some fly by night computer guru wannabe buys a cable subscription and then gets this wild hair to network a couple of computers together, one of which is connected to the cable. Well, first thing he wants to do is share files and printers between the two systems. Little does he know he's sharing those same files and printers with everyone on his little "network". Actually, I think it would a little funny if his printer started spewing all kinds of silly stuff. "WHAT THE HELL?!?!? HONEY, ARE YOU PRINTING SOMETHING?!?!?!" Dave Casey Casey_94 (NASCAR Racing 3 & 4) www.teamcasey.net www.lvkc.com www.buycoolcrap.com

>scary what can be accomplished if you are evil enough to do it. You can open >other people's files, you can print them, you can delete files from their hard >drives, you could place files on their hard drives and I guess if you were the >Son of Satan you could format their hard drives. One would have to have their system set up to let everyone and everything in if this is the case. And, if this is the case, you have a whole lot more to worry about than your local loop. -Tim

"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: > Finally, one of the best ISP's in the area is Heller Information > Services in Rockeville. Paul Heller is a class-act. Well after 18months of service my $50/mo 640/90 service is going up to $85/mo on Feb 1st with a requirement for another years committment. Have a contact # or URL for Heller?

Sheesh....$85 a month!